Mm

MJ

03/10/2013 6:38 PM

Finishing problem - blotchy maple

Ok, I am working on a rocker and I am applying a finish to the rear splats =
that are rounded.

I've made them out of maple - curly - and applied a Watco finish to the fi=
rst three. Ugly blotchiness. I read to use the Minwax stain conditioner, so=
I bought a small can and applied it to a test piece. I applied the conditi=
oner and then applied the Watco. Still the same problem.

Everything is sanded to 220.

I'm next thinking of using a thin coat of shellac first then applying the W=
atco. Question - is this the best course of action? Of course, I'll try it =
on a test piece first. I know I'll end up with a lighter color then what I =
had before, but that will be ok.

Any help is most appreciative.

Thanks in advance.

MJ


This topic has 9 replies

Gs

"Gramps' shop"

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

05/10/2013 6:34 AM

Ray ...

That is an amazing collection of work. Thanks for sharing!

Larry


On Saturday, October 5, 2013 7:21:05 AM UTC-5, Ray wrote:
> I have done a fair number of curly maple pieces. What I have found is
>=20
> that any cut surface that are lightly sanded will come out blotchy. I
>=20
> must use sandpaper to tame the wild cross grain. Sometimes I start
>=20
> out with 36 grit. End grain is next to impossible. When I turn maple
>=20
> bowls I do segmented turning to avoid end grain.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Some of my maple pieces are at
>=20
> http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/Woodwork/woodwork.html
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I use maple because I got a batch of about 150 board feet for $50. I
>=20
> am still working on it.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 18:38:14 -0700 (PDT), MJ <[email protected]>
>=20
> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >Ok, I am working on a rocker and I am applying a finish to the rear spla=
ts that are rounded.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >I've made them out of maple - curly - and applied a Watco finish to the=
first three. Ugly blotchiness. I read to use the Minwax stain conditioner,=
so I bought a small can and applied it to a test piece. I applied the cond=
itioner and then applied the Watco. Still the same problem.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Everything is sanded to 220.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >I'm next thinking of using a thin coat of shellac first then applying th=
e Watco. Question - is this the best course of action? Of course, I'll try =
it on a test piece first. I know I'll end up with a lighter color then what=
I had before, but that will be ok.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Any help is most appreciative.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Thanks in advance.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >MJ

jj

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

05/10/2013 9:12 AM


> Any help is most appreciative.

Check out Charles Neil ...

http://www.cn-woodworking.com/

He knows more about finishing than anyone I've met.

I've got no financial interest etc ....

Sb

"SonomaProducts.com"

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

04/10/2013 10:14 AM

> I've made them out of maple - curly - and applied a Watco finish to the =
first three. Ugly blotchiness. I read to use the Minwax stain conditioner, =
so I bought a small can and applied it to a test piece. I applied the condi=
tioner and then applied the Watco. Still the same problem.
>=20


OK, staining Maple is pretty much impossible. The wood is just not really a=
menable to any "staining" technique. You can "dye" it a little easier but i=
t is still difficult. With the many steps technique below, you can get exce=
llent results. I have studied this extensively.

Options.
1. Tone it. This is a technique of adding color to the film finish (lacquer=
, shellac, poly). Minwax has a product call Polyshades that uses this conce=
pt. Kind of hard to get good results because it shows overlaps. The best wa=
y to do this technique is to use a shade lighter than you want and build a =
few coats to get your color. This will not accentuate the figure, it is jus=
t a way to sort of add some color.

2. Use Dye.
I have detailed this here before, even recently but can't find the post.
Here is how to dye curly maple
- Use Transtint dye mixed in water
- Wet the whole piece with clear warm water, let dry and lightly hand sand =
off raised grain hairs.
- Wet piece again then apply black water based dye. Wetting first helps to =
make applying dye very easy and it goes on evenly. Dying dry wood is really=
difficult to get even coverage. I try to keep the whole piece wet until I =
am dine adding the round of color.
- After dry sand of 95% of black dya it the remaining dye accentuates the f=
igure (curl)
- Wet the piece again and hand sand off the raised grain once dry
- Wet the piece then dye with vintage maple water based dye
- Note, at this point you will be sure you have ruined the piece. Dye witho=
ut shellac or lacquer, etc. looks like crap.
- Then oil with Tung and let dry a week.
- It will look pretty good now
- Then shellac or lacquer, whatever
- It will look great
- Then wax. Clear wax for a fresh look, brown or black wax for an antique l=
ook.
- It will look fantastic
Examples of this technique
http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/1.jpg
http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/2.jpg
http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/3.jpg
http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/4.jpg
http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/5.jpg

Sk

Swingman

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

04/10/2013 2:55 PM

On 10/4/2013 12:14 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

> Options.
> 1. Tone it. This is a technique of adding color to the film finish (lacquer, shellac, poly). Minwax has a product call Polyshades that uses this concept. Kind of hard to get good results because it shows overlaps. The best way to do this technique is to use a shade lighter than you want and build a few coats to get your color. This will not accentuate the figure, it is just a way to sort of add some color.
>
> 2. Use Dye.


> Examples of this technique
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/1.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/2.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/3.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/4.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/5.jpg

Beautiful ... maybe because I'm colorblind, I would have said cherry,
not maple. That's how purty it is. Excellent!

The header on my ewoodshop.com website below is a mixture of stained and
toned maple, in a mix of old and new cabinets that I did in a kitchen
remodel last year:

http://static.squarespace.com/static/50b1628be4b094e977034bdb/t/514cc537e4b0e29595fb7716/1363985724435/download.png?format=1500w

One of the trendy magazine things the past year or so in kitchen
cabinets is actually the blotchy maple look, maybe because it is so easy
to effect. ;)

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

RR

Ray

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

05/10/2013 6:21 AM

I have done a fair number of curly maple pieces. What I have found is
that any cut surface that are lightly sanded will come out blotchy. I
must use sandpaper to tame the wild cross grain. Sometimes I start
out with 36 grit. End grain is next to impossible. When I turn maple
bowls I do segmented turning to avoid end grain.

Some of my maple pieces are at
http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/Woodwork/woodwork.html

I use maple because I got a batch of about 150 board feet for $50. I
am still working on it.

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 18:38:14 -0700 (PDT), MJ <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ok, I am working on a rocker and I am applying a finish to the rear splats that are rounded.
>
>I've made them out of maple - curly - and applied a Watco finish to the first three. Ugly blotchiness. I read to use the Minwax stain conditioner, so I bought a small can and applied it to a test piece. I applied the conditioner and then applied the Watco. Still the same problem.
>
>Everything is sanded to 220.
>
>I'm next thinking of using a thin coat of shellac first then applying the Watco. Question - is this the best course of action? Of course, I'll try it on a test piece first. I know I'll end up with a lighter color then what I had before, but that will be ok.
>
>Any help is most appreciative.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>MJ

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

04/10/2013 2:59 PM

"MJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Ok, I am working on a rocker and I am applying a finish
> to the rear splats that are rounded.
>
> I've made them out of maple - curly - and applied a
> Watco finish to the first three. Ugly blotchiness. I read
> to use the Minwax stain conditioner, so I bought a small
> can and applied it to a test piece. I applied the
> conditioner and then applied the Watco. Still the same
> problem.
>
> Everything is sanded to 220.
>
> I'm next thinking of using a thin coat of shellac first
> then applying the Watco. Question - is this the best
> course of action?

No. There is no reason to apply Watco (oil) over shellac because Watco is a
penetrating finish and it can't penetrate the shellac. Oh, OK, Watco has a
tad of varnish too but not enough to even think of using it as a top coat;
it would wind up all sticky if you did.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

04/10/2013 3:02 PM

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> > I've made them out of maple - curly - and applied a
> > Watco finish to the first three. Ugly blotchiness. I
> > read to use the Minwax stain conditioner, so I bought a
> > small can and applied it to a test piece. I applied the
> > conditioner and then applied the Watco. Still the same
> > problem.
> >
>
>
> OK, staining Maple is pretty much impossible. The wood is
> just not really amenable to any "staining" technique. You
> can "dye" it a little easier but it is still difficult.
> With the many steps technique below, you can get
> excellent results. I have studied this extensively.
>
> Options.
> 1. Tone it. This is a technique of adding color to the
> film finish (lacquer, shellac, poly). Minwax has a
> product call Polyshades that uses this concept. Kind of
> hard to get good results because it shows overlaps. The
> best way to do this technique is to use a shade lighter
> than you want and build a few coats to get your color.
> This will not accentuate the figure, it is just a way to
> sort of add some color.
>
> 2. Use Dye.
> I have detailed this here before, even recently but can't
> find the post.
> Here is how to dye curly maple
> - Use Transtint dye mixed in water
> - Wet the whole piece with clear warm water, let dry and
> lightly hand sand off raised grain hairs.
> - Wet piece again then apply black water based dye.
> Wetting first helps to make applying dye very easy and it
> goes on evenly. Dying dry wood is really difficult to get
> even coverage. I try to keep the whole piece wet until I
> am dine adding the round of color.
> - After dry sand of 95% of black dya it the remaining dye
> accentuates the figure (curl)
> - Wet the piece again and hand sand off the raised grain
> once dry
> - Wet the piece then dye with vintage maple water based
> dye
> - Note, at this point you will be sure you have ruined
> the piece. Dye without shellac or lacquer, etc. looks
> like crap.
> - Then oil with Tung and let dry a week.
> - It will look pretty good now
> - Then shellac or lacquer, whatever
> - It will look great
> - Then wax. Clear wax for a fresh look, brown or black
> wax for an antique look.
> - It will look fantastic
> Examples of this technique
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/1.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/2.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/3.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/4.jpg
> http://www.sonomaproducts.com/images/stories/curly/5.jpg

Dang, it *does* look great. Almost like koa :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

LB

Larry Blanchard

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

04/10/2013 8:37 PM

On Fri, 04 Oct 2013 10:14:20 -0700, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

> 1. Tone it. This is a technique of adding color to the film finish
> (lacquer, shellac, poly).

I've had pretty good results by adding dye to dewaxed shellac and
applying it with a piece of old t-shirt wrapped around some cosmetic pads.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

wn

woodchucker

in reply to MJ on 03/10/2013 6:38 PM

03/10/2013 11:00 PM

On 10/3/2013 9:38 PM, MJ wrote:
> Ok, I am working on a rocker and I am applying a finish to the rear splats that are rounded.
>
> I've made them out of maple - curly - and applied a Watco finish to the first three. Ugly blotchiness. I read to use the Minwax stain conditioner, so I bought a small can and applied it to a test piece. I applied the conditioner and then applied the Watco. Still the same problem.
>
the conditioner should dry before you use it.

> Everything is sanded to 220.
>
> I'm next thinking of using a thin coat of shellac first then applying the Watco. Question - is this the best course of action? Of course, I'll try it on a test piece first. I know I'll end up with a lighter color then what I had before, but that will be ok.
>
Shellac is a great pre-stain.. Thin is quite a bit. make sure it's
dewaxed shellac.

The watco is oil right, I didn't know oil splotched. Stain yes, dye yes,
oil... didn't know that.


> Any help is most appreciative.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> MJ
>


--
Jeff


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