We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a lot of
time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
attention to getting my shop in order.
The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done).
It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to
cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your chance to
talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood or
OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not want
drywall, not for a shop.
So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco so I
don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for this
stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
screws. Suggestions????
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
I should have known this would turn into a building code discussion. Don't
they always? Mostly I was looking for screw suggestions that would not show
conspicuously on the face of the siding. Something with a tan color would
be nice, and I think I have seen deck screws with an anti-corrosion coating
that was tan to match decking.
For those worried about the codes, this garage is detached from the house,
was built to current codes, which did not require any finishing of interior
walls. I will not be covering the ceiling where presumably following the
nailing schedule would be most important. I will check the nailing schedule
code, but choose not to follow it. I doubt if it will even exist for
exterior siding in an interior application and one should not assume that it
would be the same as drywall, nor that it would be the same as exterior
sheathing.
Thanks for all the replies.
"Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco so
I
> don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for this
> stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> screws. Suggestions????
>
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
>
>
Hmmm, I don't know where you live or the insurance you have BUT in most
cases if the wiring and the construction are not inspected the insurance
is not obligated to pay. In many localities drywall is required in the
garage, regardless of what you use the garage for.. that is not to say
you can't put what you want over the drywall but the drywall has to be
there.
might want to call the bldg inspector and ask before you go to all that
work.
just my $0.02
BRuce
Bill Pounds wrote:
> We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a lot of
> time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> attention to getting my shop in order.
>
> The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done).
> It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to
> cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your chance to
> talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood or
> OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not want
> drywall, not for a shop.
>
> So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco so I
> don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for this
> stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> screws. Suggestions????
>
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
>
>
Thanks for the spacing info. Do you think too many or too few?
I'll contact McFeely too.
Bill
"SwampBug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I e-mailed McFeelys about that very thing based on 3/4" plywood for my
walls
> of std 2x4 studs, here is what the recomended
>
> "I would recommend our #8 x 2" ProMaster Saw tooth screws. You will need
43
> screws per sheet.
> Fasten every 6" on perimeter, every 12" in field."
>
> I can't say as I agree about the spacing but the screws they recomended
look
> good. Hope this helps.
>
> --
> SwampBug
> ---------------------
> "Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a
lot
> of
> > time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> > attention to getting my shop in order.
> >
> > The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done).
> > It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to
> > cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your
chance
> to
> > talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood
> or
> > OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not
> want
> > drywall, not for a shop.
> >
> > So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco
so
> I
> > don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> > sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for
this
> > stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> > screws. Suggestions????
> >
> > --
> > Bill Pounds
> > http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
> >
> >
>
>
Thanks for the input. You are correct about the wiring inspection. As for
drywall, the building was built new, and inspected, about 6 months ago.
Studs are exposed. Drywall is only required for an attached garage, and
only on the adjoining wall (Los Strangulous County).
Bill
"BRuce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1060119810.201594@sj-nntpcache-5...
> Hmmm, I don't know where you live or the insurance you have BUT in most
> cases if the wiring and the construction are not inspected the insurance
> is not obligated to pay. In many localities drywall is required in the
> garage, regardless of what you use the garage for.. that is not to say
> you can't put what you want over the drywall but the drywall has to be
> there.
>
> might want to call the bldg inspector and ask before you go to all that
> work.
>
> just my $0.02
>
> BRuce
>
> Bill Pounds wrote:
> > We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a
lot of
> > time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> > attention to getting my shop in order.
> >
> > The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done).
> > It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to
> > cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your
chance to
> > talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood
or
> > OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not
want
> > drywall, not for a shop.
> >
> > So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco
so I
> > don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> > sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for
this
> > stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> > screws. Suggestions????
> >
> > --
> > Bill Pounds
> > http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
> >
> >
>
Whatever you use, I recommend something that isn't going to rust. I
helped the fil replace a sheet of the stuff on the outside of their
house. The original installers used about 1 screw an inch at the top of
the sheet and by this point in time the screw heads were all rusted.
Didn't bring the reciprocating saw with me so it was a joy to remove.
Inside you likely wouldn't have the same problem but if I ever use the
stuff again I'll use galvanized something or other.
Bill Pounds wrote:
> We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a lot of
> time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> attention to getting my shop in order.
>
> The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done).
> It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to
> cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your chance to
> talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood or
> OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not want
> drywall, not for a shop.
>
> So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco so I
> don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for this
> stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> screws. Suggestions????
>
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
>
>
the deck screws will be perfect. if you get the ones with the square
drive you won't have any "cam-out" when driving them in. and get
yourself a Makita impact driver to reduce cam-out even more, with
Phillips screws. (I am one-man evangelistic movement for impact drivers.
<g>). BTW, don't go overboard on the length--you won't need 3" screws!
dave
Bill Pounds wrote:
>
> We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a lot of
> time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> attention to getting my shop in order.
>
> The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done).
> It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to
> cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your chance to
> talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood or
> OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not want
> drywall, not for a shop.
>
> So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco so I
> don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for this
> stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> screws. Suggestions????
>
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
If the garage is attached to the house then usually the building code
specifies that you have some sort of fire separation - usually that means
drywall and fire taping.
Likewise, fastener spacing is governed by code.
Check with your local building inspector.
If there is no code, and no earthquakes/strong winds then the screw spacing
could probably be relaxed a bit from what mcfeely quoted..
-Jack
"Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Thanks for the spacing info. Do you think too many or too few?
>
> I'll contact McFeely too.
>
> Bill
>
> "SwampBug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I e-mailed McFeelys about that very thing based on 3/4" plywood for my
> walls
> > of std 2x4 studs, here is what the recomended
> >
> > "I would recommend our #8 x 2" ProMaster Saw tooth screws. You will need
> 43
> > screws per sheet.
> > Fasten every 6" on perimeter, every 12" in field."
> >
> > I can't say as I agree about the spacing but the screws they recomended
> look
> > good. Hope this helps.
> >
> > --
> > SwampBug
> > ---------------------
> > "Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a
> lot
> > of
> > > time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> > > attention to getting my shop in order.
> > >
> > > The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is
done).
> > > It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan
to
> > > cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your
> chance
> > to
> > > talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than
plywood
> > or
> > > OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not
> > want
> > > drywall, not for a shop.
> > >
> > > So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is
stucco
> so
> > I
> > > don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take
a
> > > sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for
> this
> > > stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of
deck
> > > screws. Suggestions????
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bill Pounds
> > > http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
"Chris Merrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was told that it must be constructed to code...but not necessarily
inspected.
> The code is there to protect buyers from buying homes that fall over (or
> fail in some other way).
> Inspections are required for contractors - to keep customers from getting
ripped
> off.
Actually, the stated purpose of the code is public safety.
Likewise code inspections are not intended to keep customers from getting
ripped off.
The inspections are there to make sure that safety is not jeopardized by
failure to construct according to the code.
Contractors have hundreds of other ways to rip off customers which do not
involve building code, though it is true that generally code compliance does
cost money so it is always a temptation.
-Jackd
"Wolf Lahti" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Code requires a fire-resistant door between the house and an attached
> garage - which ignores completely the fact that the vast majority of
> fires start in the kitchen.
>
> Maybe they're more interested in protecting the garage?
Generally fire codes are interested in limiting the spread of flames rather
than in protecting certain areas of the house. By keeping fire out of the
garage it reduces the possible severity of the fire. Would you want the
kitchen fire to spread to the garage, igniting 20 gallons of gasoline, a
garbage can of sawdust and a few gallons of watco danish oil? Anything which
prevents the spread of fire between two areas is beneficial.
-Jack
There was a fire reported on the news this morning. Overnight a fire in a
garage that was put out by the fire department in OFallon, MO, reignited.
They used thermal imaging to verify that it was out. The reignition burned
down the house including the motorcycle and car in the garage plus the 2
cars in the driveway. The neighbor suffered a heart attack trying to hose
down his roof so his house wouldn't catch. It did (minorly). Its under
investigation, but the point is that a fire regardless of location has the
potential to completely burn down the house, it contents, neighboring house,
driveway contents, etc.
--
Tim
--------
See my page @ http://www.wood-workers.com/users/timv/ (seriously needs
updating)
"Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:gKaYa.6287$2g.1032@fed1read05...
> JackD wrote:
>
> > Generally fire codes are interested in limiting the spread of flames
rather
> > than in protecting certain areas of the house. By keeping fire out of
the
> > garage it reduces the possible severity of the fire. Would you want the
> > kitchen fire to spread to the garage, igniting 20 gallons of gasoline, a
> > garbage can of sawdust and a few gallons of watco danish oil? Anything
which
> > prevents the spread of fire between two areas is beneficial.
> >
>
> Actually, if you notice the code, the fire-resistant products are
> required on the _garage_ side of the walls, not the living space side.
> The intent is to keep fires in the garage from spreading into the
> house. I'd have to think that fires in garages are more common (and
> hotter, smokier, etc.) than fires in the living space. In many cases
> (including mine), the garage holds appliances that are involved in
> fires (furnaces, water heaters, gas clothes dryers, etc.) along with
> plenty of flammable materials.
>
Sorry, in that case, I would put in 4 screws along the 4' edges and 3 on the
stud in between (one at each edge and one in the middle). Colored deck
screws are available.
--
Tim
--------
See my page @ http://www.wood-workers.com/users/timv/ (seriously needs
updating)
"Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I should have known this would turn into a building code discussion.
Don't
> they always? Mostly I was looking for screw suggestions that would not
show
> conspicuously on the face of the siding. Something with a tan color would
> be nice, and I think I have seen deck screws with an anti-corrosion
coating
> that was tan to match decking.
>
> For those worried about the codes, this garage is detached from the house,
> was built to current codes, which did not require any finishing of
interior
> walls. I will not be covering the ceiling where presumably following the
> nailing schedule would be most important. I will check the nailing
schedule
> code, but choose not to follow it. I doubt if it will even exist for
> exterior siding in an interior application and one should not assume that
it
> would be the same as drywall, nor that it would be the same as exterior
> sheathing.
>
> Thanks for all the replies.
>
>
> "Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco
so
> I
> > don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> > sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for
this
> > stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> > screws. Suggestions????
> >
> > --
> > Bill Pounds
> > http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
> >
> >
>
>
"Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I should have known this would turn into a building code discussion. Don't
>they always?
Well, the law is the law and your safety is involved. That usually trumps
saving a few cents on screws.
>Mostly I was looking for screw suggestions that would not show
> conspicuously on the face of the siding. Something with a tan color would
> be nice, and I think I have seen deck screws with an anti-corrosion
coating
> that was tan to match decking.
They all hide when you paint anyway...
If you aren't painting (and white paint really helps make the shop lighter)
then get the tan deckmate screws at the borg. They are square drive and will
hide pretty well.
An alternative is to use un-colored screws and those little metal grommets.
Gives a nice finished look and you can always find them.
> For those worried about the codes, this garage is detached from the house,
> was built to current codes, which did not require any finishing of
interior
> walls. I will not be covering the ceiling where presumably following the
> nailing schedule would be most important.
Actually, the side walls need to resist shear. That is what the nailing is
for. Keeps your walls from racking.
The roof plays a part too, but nailing schedules are much much more than you
need to keep the stuff from falling on your head.
> I will check the nailing schedule
> code, but choose not to follow it. I doubt if it will even exist for
> exterior siding in an interior application and one should not assume that
it
> would be the same as drywall, nor that it would be the same as exterior
> sheathing.
Put in enough to keep it from warping. You could probably get away with
every 18"
Start with that and add more if necessary.
Jack
> > Actually, the side walls need to resist shear. That is what the nailing
is
> > for. Keeps your walls from racking.
>
> If the walls weren't racking when unfinished (my shop has not had
> interior walls since it was built (probably 10+ years ago), racking has
> never been an issue.
Don't get many earthquakes in Arizona do you?
There is often a fair amount of lateral shear. In California this is what
the plywood is meant to transfer.
Also why the code uses a "nailing schedule" instead of a screwing schedule
for plywood. Nails have better shear resistance compared to things like
drywall screws.
Not that any of this is relevant to the problem at hand...
-Jack
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> "Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I should have known this would turn into a building code discussion. Don't
> >they always?
>
> Well, the law is the law and your safety is involved. That usually trumps
> saving a few cents on screws.
>
The clue should have been when he indicated that the walls were
currently un-finished. If he was allowed to occupy in that condition
(as implied by the first part of his original post), then it should have
been clear that code was not an issue.
> >Mostly I was looking for screw suggestions that would not show
> > conspicuously on the face of the siding. Something with a tan color would
> > be nice, and I think I have seen deck screws with an anti-corrosion
> coating
> > that was tan to match decking.
... snip
>
> Actually, the side walls need to resist shear. That is what the nailing is
> for. Keeps your walls from racking.
If the walls weren't racking when unfinished (my shop has not had
interior walls since it was built (probably 10+ years ago), racking has
never been an issue.
> The roof plays a part too, but nailing schedules are much much more than you
> need to keep the stuff from falling on your head.
>
> > I will check the nailing schedule
> > code, but choose not to follow it. I doubt if it will even exist for
> > exterior siding in an interior application and one should not assume that
> it
> > would be the same as drywall, nor that it would be the same as exterior
> > sheathing.
>
> Put in enough to keep it from warping. You could probably get away with
> every 18"
> Start with that and add more if necessary.
>
I'm currently putting up insulation and walls so I can air condition
the shop, I'm growing tired of 110+ degree working conditions,
especially during the AZ monsoon season. I'm using white vinyl coated
hardboard and drywall screws (yeah, the "flyspecks" of the screws looks
a little wierd, but it's a shop and I don't have to paint after I'm
done). Yours is the approach I'm using: enough screws to keep the sides
from warping or bowing away from the wall -- the actual spacing will be
dependent upon the material used, in my case, about 8 to 10 inches seems
to work; for more rigid material, a greater spacing should work
JackD wrote:
> Generally fire codes are interested in limiting the spread of flames rather
> than in protecting certain areas of the house. By keeping fire out of the
> garage it reduces the possible severity of the fire. Would you want the
> kitchen fire to spread to the garage, igniting 20 gallons of gasoline, a
> garbage can of sawdust and a few gallons of watco danish oil? Anything which
> prevents the spread of fire between two areas is beneficial.
>
Actually, if you notice the code, the fire-resistant products are
required on the _garage_ side of the walls, not the living space side.
The intent is to keep fires in the garage from spreading into the
house. I'd have to think that fires in garages are more common (and
hotter, smokier, etc.) than fires in the living space. In many cases
(including mine), the garage holds appliances that are involved in
fires (furnaces, water heaters, gas clothes dryers, etc.) along with
plenty of flammable materials.
I e-mailed McFeelys about that very thing based on 3/4" plywood for my walls
of std 2x4 studs, here is what the recomended
"I would recommend our #8 x 2" ProMaster Saw tooth screws. You will need 43
screws per sheet.
Fasten every 6" on perimeter, every 12" in field."
I can't say as I agree about the spacing but the screws they recomended look
good. Hope this helps.
--
SwampBug
---------------------
"Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a lot
of
> time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> attention to getting my shop in order.
>
> The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is done).
> It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan to
> cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your chance
to
> talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than plywood
or
> OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not
want
> drywall, not for a shop.
>
> So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is stucco so
I
> don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take a
> sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for this
> stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of deck
> screws. Suggestions????
>
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
>
>
JackD said it plain, but out here in the swamps code means diddly, , ,I
won't put them closer than a foot apart anywhere.
--
SwampBug
---------------------
"Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Thanks for the spacing info. Do you think too many or too few?
>
> I'll contact McFeely too.
>
> Bill
>
> "SwampBug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I e-mailed McFeelys about that very thing based on 3/4" plywood for my
> walls
> > of std 2x4 studs, here is what the recomended
> >
> > "I would recommend our #8 x 2" ProMaster Saw tooth screws. You will need
> 43
> > screws per sheet.
> > Fasten every 6" on perimeter, every 12" in field."
> >
> > I can't say as I agree about the spacing but the screws they recomended
> look
> > good. Hope this helps.
> >
> > --
> > SwampBug
> > ---------------------
> > "Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > We've been in a new home for about 2 months now, and after spending a
> lot
> > of
> > > time on the stuff that makes a new house a home, it's time to turn my
> > > attention to getting my shop in order.
> > >
> > > The second order of business is to cover the walls (electrical is
done).
> > > It's a stick built garage, 22 x 22, and it will be all shop. I plan
to
> > > cover the bare stud walls with T-11 exterior siding. Here is your
> chance
> > to
> > > talk me out of that plan. I think it will look a bit nicer than
plywood
> > or
> > > OSB, and not that much more $$. I don't plan to paint it and I do not
> > want
> > > drywall, not for a shop.
> > >
> > > So, my question is about screws for the siding. The exterior is
stucco
> so
> > I
> > > don't want to drive nails, and also because I want to be able to take
a
> > > sheet down to access the cavity. What screws would you recommend for
> this
> > > stuff? I know drywall screws will be too brittle. Was thinking of
deck
> > > screws. Suggestions????
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bill Pounds
> > > http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>