Yes it's OT, but you all seem to have such a broad base of knowledge here,
thought you wouldn't mind helping a fellow woodworker out.
(Central Fl area)
Walked out on our pool/screened patio area this morning with my Golden
Retriever and found a little baby snake had gotten into the area, and was
trying to get back out. I see black snakes and garter (sic?) snakes quite
often around the house. I don't have any fear of snakes, and just pick them
up and take them out behind our house to a retention pond area and set them
loose. But this one looked different and started shaking his tail (amazing
how fast it was going) when I approached. I used a broom to direct him out
the screen door into the back yard, paying close attention to his coloring,
head, tail etc.
A quick search on the internet turned up his twin brother:
http://www.attention-to-details.com/newslog/46u-baby-rattlesnake-rescue.asp
I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
Any advice ?
JimInFl
On Aug 19, 10:00 am, "Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes it's OT, but you all seem to have such a broad base of knowledge here,
> thought you wouldn't mind helping a fellow woodworker out.
>
> (Central Fl area)
>
> Walked out on our pool/screened patio area this morning with my Golden
> Retriever and found a little baby snake had gotten into the area, and was
> trying to get back out. I see black snakes and garter (sic?) snakes quite
> often around the house. I don't have any fear of snakes, and just pick them
> up and take them out behind our house to a retention pond area and set them
> loose. But this one looked different and started shaking his tail (amazing
> how fast it was going) when I approached. I used a broom to direct him out
> the screen door into the back yard, paying close attention to his coloring,
> head, tail etc.
>
> A quick search on the internet turned up his twin brother:http://www.attention-to-details.com/newslog/46u-baby-rattlesnake-resc...
>
> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
> Any advice ?
>
> JimInFl
There are others who'll shake their tail at you. The snake's "twin"
you've searched out isn't a rattler. I think. Tom
On Aug 19, 7:07 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jim Bailey" wrote:
> > I know for a fact I've got a big blacksnake living around my neighbor's
> > house because I see it every other day or so. I think I'll give it a few
> > days, look around some more (carefully) before I jump to any conclusions.
> > Meanwhile the dog can poop on the other side of the yard :)
>
> If in fact it is a black snake, they are known to keep the rat population
> under control.
>
> Black sankes are very useful.
>
> Lew
All snakes are useful. And, Mr. Cox, it's not a bad idea to treat a
baby rattler with a little more respect than you might a mature one.
The "folk wisdom" (I know, I know) talks about the babies not knowing
the difference between a casual encounter with a non-threat like cat,
dog or what have you, and a real threat. So they just give _all_ the
venom that they're born with. An older, wiser rattler is more likely
to give a dry bite, and that does the job at hand. At least it worked
on my cat that way. He was bitten in the face, twice, over a two year
period, and it was probably the same snake. Yep, Clem's a little
smarter now. A little, anyway. Tom
On Aug 20, 2:56 pm, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 9:39pm (EDT-3) [email protected] (tom) doth sayeth:
> <snip> An older, wiser rattler is more likely to give a dry bite, and
> that does the job at hand. <snip>
>
> I don't think so. They bite, venom comes out - usually. They can
> espend all their venom, so none is available until more is generated.
> Or, a fang(s) can go thru flesh, ear, whatever, and the venom be ejected
> outside the flesh, instead of in it. I also understand that
> rattlesnakes (dont know if this applies to other sanakes or not)
> sometimes get an infection or something in a fang that wo't allow the
> fang to eject venon. Plenty of reasons you cat could survive, but a
> snake purpsly holding back venom is not on the list.
>
> JOAT
> I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
> them.
> - Picasso
Please take me at my word, the qualifier being, "more likely", JT, you
ignorant slut! ; ) . I think that's my sixth emoticon, ever. It seems
emoticons are needed to convey a sense of playfulness. The idiot cats'
head swelled up a whole lot, if that helps! Tom
On Aug 21, 1:04 am, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 10:34pm (EDT-3) [email protected] (tom) doth boldly
> put out:
> Please take me at my word, the qualifier being, "more likely", JT, you
> ignorant slut! ; ) . I think that's my sixth emoticon, ever. It seems
> emoticons are needed to convey a sense of playfulness. The idiot cats'
> head swelled up a whole lot, if that helps! Tom
>
> The internet is great isn't it? It let's you call strangers
> names you'd never dare to their face - at least I'd recommend not to my
> face; I may be older and slower, but am willing to believe I can be
> meaner. I'll tell you what, you find that "wise" old rattler, let it
> bite you in the ass to test your "most likely" theory, and report your
> findings to the group. Then I'll bless "you" with "my" first emoticon
> ever.
>
> I've read that a bite by a recently born baby rattler is about like
> a bumble bee sting, lot of pain, but not lethal (unless possibly an
> elder, baby, ill, or allergic maybe). Sounds reasonable, I've not
> tested it. So sounds like your cat could have been bitten by baby
> rattlers. That's 'my' most likely theory.
>
> JOAT
> I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
> them.
> - Picasso
Okay, I'm sorry I called you an ignorant slut. I don't know where you
read "like a bumble bee sting", but do a little more research, and I
think you'll find this to be true: http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/ecoview/Eco30.htm
Tom
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 7:35am (EDT-3) [email protected] (tom) doth sayeth:
<snip> I don't know where you read "like a bumble bee sting", but do a
little more research, and I think you'll find this to be true:
http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/ecoview/Eco30.htm Tom
I don't know where I read it either, and I'm probably not going to
bother to try to find it, as it was years ago.
I would say partially true. Do you mean the National Geographic
shows on TV alligator attacks on people in Florida, sometimes killing
them, are untrue?
I'll go along with the guy who relocates poisonous snakes. I stay
where I am, they get relocated to snake heaven.
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 10:34pm (EDT-3) [email protected] (tom) doth boldly
put out:
Please take me at my word, the qualifier being, "more likely", JT, you
ignorant slut! ; ) . I think that's my sixth emoticon, ever. It seems
emoticons are needed to convey a sense of playfulness. The idiot cats'
head swelled up a whole lot, if that helps! Tom
The internet is great isn't it? It let's you call strangers
names you'd never dare to their face - at least I'd recommend not to my
face; I may be older and slower, but am willing to believe I can be
meaner. I'll tell you what, you find that "wise" old rattler, let it
bite you in the ass to test your "most likely" theory, and report your
findings to the group. Then I'll bless "you" with "my" first emoticon
ever.
I've read that a bite by a recently born baby rattler is about like
a bumble bee sting, lot of pain, but not lethal (unless possibly an
elder, baby, ill, or allergic maybe). Sounds reasonable, I've not
tested it. So sounds like your cat could have been bitten by baby
rattlers. That's 'my' most likely theory.
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 9:39pm (EDT-3) [email protected] (tom) doth sayeth:
<snip> An older, wiser rattler is more likely to give a dry bite, and
that does the job at hand. <snip>
I don't think so. They bite, venom comes out - usually. They can
espend all their venom, so none is available until more is generated.
Or, a fang(s) can go thru flesh, ear, whatever, and the venom be ejected
outside the flesh, instead of in it. I also understand that
rattlesnakes (dont know if this applies to other sanakes or not)
sometimes get an infection or something in a fang that wo't allow the
fang to eject venon. Plenty of reasons you cat could survive, but a
snake purpsly holding back venom is not on the list.
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
> http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/factsheets/herps/masrat.htm
>
> It is interesting to note that rattlesnakes can control the injection of venom when biting. Medical
> experts familiar with snake bites indicate that up to 60% of all snake bites to humans by poisonous
> snakes are "dry" bites containing no venom. Experts feel that the snakes may be voluntarily
> withholding the venom for use on prey and conserving it in some defense situations. However, these
> animals should always be treated with cautious respect.
One of those things thats useful to know afterwards. Beforehand, I can just see some know-it-all
saying "Don't worry, 60% of bites have no venom", just before he joins the other 40%.
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 9:39pm (EDT-3) [email protected] (tom) doth sayeth:
> <snip> An older, wiser rattler is more likely to give a dry bite, and
> that does the job at hand. <snip>
>
> I don't think so. They bite, venom comes out - usually. They can
> espend all their venom, so none is available until more is generated.
> Or, a fang(s) can go thru flesh, ear, whatever, and the venom be ejected
> outside the flesh, instead of in it. I also understand that
> rattlesnakes (dont know if this applies to other sanakes or not)
> sometimes get an infection or something in a fang that wo't allow the
> fang to eject venon. Plenty of reasons you cat could survive, but a
> snake purpsly holding back venom is not on the list.
>
>
>
> JOAT
> I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
> them.
> - Picasso
>
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/factsheets/herps/masrat.htm
It is interesting to note that rattlesnakes can control the injection of
venom when biting. Medical experts familiar with snake bites indicate that
up to 60% of all snake bites to humans by poisonous snakes are "dry" bites
containing no venom. Experts feel that the snakes may be voluntarily
withholding the venom for use on prey and conserving it in some defense
situations. However, these animals should always be treated with cautious
respect.
Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 3:14pm (EDT-3) [email protected]
(charlie) doth posteth thusly:
<snip> 60% of all snake bites to humans by poisonous snakes are "dry"
bites containing no venom. Experts feel that the snakes may be
voluntarily withholding the venom for use on prey and conserving it in
some defense situations. <snip>
Damn, it must be really great to be an "expert", and know all there
is to know about something. I also notice the weasel word "feel" in
that little squib. Any of them "esperts" felt confident enough to try
it?
I love the German for rattlesnake, Klapperschlange. Years back I
saw a video of an "expert" who was going to prove he could survive a
Maussaga (i believe it was) rattlesnake bite, with NO medical
assistance, only by his own efforts and one of those little snakebite
kits. Well, it took him a few tries before the snake actually bit him.
He must have been mistaken for prey, because he definitely got a dose of
venom. He proceeded to use his little snakebite kit, with the little
sharp blade, bournequit (?), snakebite treatment juice, and suction
cups. And he died. LMAO The really funny part is the kit worked, but
wasn't the miricle cure the guy thought it was, it merely extended his
life expectency - he should have had real medical attention on top of
that. If he had accepted the medical treatment, even hours after the
bite, they figure he would have survived. In other cases the snakebite
kit might actually save a life, even without proper medical treatment -
in this case I guess he really pissed the snake off enough to get a full
shot.
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
Living in Fl, on 5 acres .....I HAVE seen plenty of rattle
snakes...Diamond backs, and cane breaks (subspeicies of timbers) , and
moccasins
My general rule of thumb is...if they are up front where thePeople,
dogs and cats are......they meet their maker at the end of a spade.
Note, this is only snakes that are positively ID-ed as baddies.
If I see them out back in the pastures, I just leave them be.
We have had several goats killed by run ins with moccasins at the
pond, 2 of the dogs have been face bitten.and survived just
fine.......a shot of antibiotics and they are good as new in short
order.
We get a pile of small cane breaks showing up at alternate times of
the year....they have no rattles yet.....but will coil, and strike
immediately.....they dont hold back like the adults do.
I almost trod on a 6' diamond back out in the back 3 acres, I was
heading out to do something, and my eyes werent on the ground....this
ol bouy was evidently heading to the pond to get a drink.....and gave
me a warning rattle...I bet it was comical to see, cause I stopped in
mid step, one foot in the air....saw what was 3; in front of
me.......and eased out, exit, stage left very very slowly. Point is,
he coulda had me if he wanted.the baby snakes have no experience, and
will whack ya immediately.
If its in yur screen room....use the spade...life will go on.....they
arent endangered here
Steve
"Jim Bailey" wrote
> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
> Any advice ?
Call animal control.
After you call A/C, give them their space.
They mean you no harm unless provoked.
We have are share of R/S here in SoCal, usually responsible for killing a
couple of pet dogs during the season.
Good luck.
Lew
"Jim Bailey" wrote
>> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
>> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
>> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
>> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
>> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>>
>> Any advice ?
Then "Lew Hodgett" wrote...
> Call animal control.
>
That's ridiculous and the reason our taxes are so high. DON'T look for help
from the govt. and get the rake out. Sheesh!
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 2:13pm (EDT-2) [email protected] (Scott=A0Cox) doth
sayeth:
That's ridiculous and the reason our taxes are so high. DON'T look for
help from the govt. and get the rake out. Sheesh!
Rake is unhandy for killing snakes, hoe, or spade, is much handier.
I like a revolver and shot cartridges. Then a shovel to pick them up -
sometimes they have muscle reacon..
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
"Scott Cox" wrote
> That's ridiculous and the reason our taxes are so high. DON'T look for
> help from the govt. and get the rake out. Sheesh!
You pay for professional services, that's why they exist.
If you screw up and end up in the E/R, then what have you saved?
Here in SoCal, we coexist with a number of wild animals including brown
bears, mountain lions, coyotes as well as rattlesnakes.
They were here first, it is basically our problem to get along.
There is a type of rattlesnake here in SoCal that is confined to only one
area which has an unusual venom which does not respond to the usual serums.
The hospital in that area is the only one that has the necessary serum to
treat the bite.
Go to the wrong hospital and you die before they can get the correct serum.
Animal control and the medics are aware of the local requirements, and train
to respond to these situations on a regular basis.
The cost of actually going out on a call gets lost in the wash.
Of course, you want to be a cowboy, that's your business.
Lew
"Lew Hodgett" wrote.....
.....
>
> If you screw up and end up in the E/R, then what have you saved?
>
It was a baby snake. If you relate that to a trip to the ER then it's time
to face some fears.
.......
>
> Of course, you want to be a cowboy, that's your business.
>
That's how we do things here in Texas. You must be one of those "metro men"
I've heard about. Maybe you should get outdoors more? :-)
Scott
(who doesn't need govt. agency to kill baby snake for me)
"Scott Cox" wrote:
> It was a baby snake. If you relate that to a trip to the ER then it's time
> to face some fears.
Make that mistake her in SoCal and you can be in deep trouble.
It is the baby of the family that is the biggest problem with the snake that
is confined to one area.
> That's how we do things here in Texas. You must be one of those "metro
> men" I've heard about. Maybe you should get outdoors more? :-)
After spending some time in San Angelo, learned a healthy respect for cowboy
boots, turns out they actually have a purpose.
Goodyear had built some oval test tracks and left the infeld untouched.
As a diversion, the drivers would run over the rattlesnakes that came out of
the infield, then stop and cut off the rattle.
When they got back to the start house, there was a 4x8 sheet of plywood, a
box of 16d nails and a hammer which was used to nail up the trophy rattles.
They were working on the 3rd-4th board when I was there.
There was a time in my life when snake hunting was an interesting way to
spend an afternoon with friends.
When you are 16, you we surprised how good you get snap shooting from the
hip with a .22 when you're after snakes, but that was then and this is now.
These days, probably couoldn't hit a bull in the ass with a barn door, much
less a .22.
Bottom line...................................
Time marches on and don't let the size of the snake fool you.
Lew
.
"Jim Bailey" wrote:
> I know for a fact I've got a big blacksnake living around my neighbor's
> house because I see it every other day or so. I think I'll give it a few
> days, look around some more (carefully) before I jump to any conclusions.
> Meanwhile the dog can poop on the other side of the yard :)
If in fact it is a black snake, they are known to keep the rat population
under control.
Black sankes are very useful.
Lew
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:36:19 GMT, no spam wrote:
> And rattle snakes are vegetarians?
I assume you are being facetious. All snakes are carnivorous.
A small snake in Florida is likely going after small mammals, and
perhaps lizards. A black racer certainly will take lizards.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:01:16 GMT, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
> Small snakes - Bugs.
Not always. Some snakes, like garter snakes and ribbon snakes, will take
insects. Some snakes eat fish and slugs.
But rattlesnakes prey primarily on mammals. The heat-sensing pits in
front of their eyes (the reason they are called pit vipers) help them
locate warm-blooded prey. In the OP's area (Florida), the young rattler
can find plenty of small mammals.
> Large snakes - rodents, etc.
Mostly true of North American species, but there are exceptions.
> Otherwise, consider them scenery and don't touch.
Certainly good advice. Best for the snake and for you.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:05:25 GMT, no spam wrote:
> My point was all snakes are good for rodent control.
My point is that your point is incorrect. Many North American snakes
don't eat rodents.
> There are very few non-venomous North American snakes can handle a
> full grown, i.e. breeding sized, rat.
Few, venomous or non-venomous. The only rattlesnake that gets big enough
for that is the Eastern Diamondback. The only non-venomous that get that
big regularly are the Black Rat, Everglades Rat, and the Indigo. The
Eastern Pine and Bull can get big enough, but rarely.
I have several snakes in my collection that do well with a "medium" rat.
> By wiping out your venomous snake population you are most likely
> going to have fewer mice but more rats.
Huh?
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:18:49 -0700, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> BTW, we also have a snake known as the hog-nose viper. It will
> attack and even strike, but always does so with its mouth closed. If
> that doesn't scare you off, it rolls over on its back and plays dead.
> Only problem is that if you flip it onto its belly, it'll flip right
> back over again :-).
Not a viper at all. The Eastern Hognose eats frogs and fish. The Western
Hognose eats rodents. The Eastern "plays dead" much more readily than
the Western. Unfortunately, both loose the tendency to do that in
captivity.
Oh, and I _have_ been bitten by a Western Hognose. Its mouth sure wasn't
closed.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
RE: Subject
Guess there is at least one advantage to living in a place where you
have snow and cold weather for at least a couple of months each year.
In all the years I lived in Northern Ohio, never saw a poisonous snake
of any kind.
My dad told me there might be some copperheads around, but not cotton
mouths, it simply got to cold in the winter.
Lew
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:20:31 GMT, no spam wrote:
> I used to keep rats as pets as well as grew up on a farm where
> trapping (poisoning, shooting, etc.) rats was one of the jobs. I can
> tell you that your "medium" feeder rat is just about as big as a wild
> rat will get. Taking a wild rat that was as big as even my adult
> female whites was unusual.
You've never been to NYC, then, have you? 8-)
> Given two snakes of the same size the venomous one will get more of
> the larger meals because he will have fewer get away. Therefore when
> you have fewer venomous snakes around more rats will get away. Also
> the snakes seem to know this and don't try for rats but go for the
> smaller but more sure meal of mice.
Sounds like folklore to me. It is very, very rare that a prey animal
would escape the strike of either a venomous or non-venomous snake. And
in the case of the non-venomous snake, escape after that is even more
rare. Snakes are extremely efficient predators.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:11:36 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Dave Gordon wrote:
>> I'd kill all the (f)'king snakes too. If I have a rat problem, I'll
>> get a cat.
>>
>> I've just come back from visiting friends in Cyprus (f. hot, since
>> you ask). They have a breed of cat
>> that was brought over from Egypt, that is bred specifically to kill
>> snakes. I guess they have some
>> mongoose in them.
>> My friends had rescued (aka adopted) two stray kittens of this
>> breed,
>> and they were about 6 months old
>> when they brought their first dead snake home. I have no idea how
>> they killed it, but the snake was so
>> big they couldn't lift it, and had to drag it into the kitchen to
>> show "mummy".
>
>Cats have fun with non-venomous snakes, although they tend to use them
>as toys instead of killing them. Don't know how they do against
>European venomous snakes, but the pit vipers (rattlesnake, copperhead,
>and cottonmouth) supposedly can make short work of a mongoose (the pit
>vipers strike from a horizontal S-curve, the cobras and their kin
>strike from a vertical stance that makes them less agile), although I
>can't find a credible report of such an encounter ever having actually
>occurred.
>
I've had several reports over the years of house cats killing rattlers, but
never actually seen it happen..
When we first moved to Baja, our cats were trying to break the world record for
the number of Kangaroo Rats killed and left in the shower..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:42:11 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Dave Gordon wrote:
>> I prefer
>>
>> "Red on yellow, kill the bastard,
>> red on black, kill the bastard"
>
>If it has that look and you can't remember, best err on the side of
>safety, but king snakes eat rattlesnakes (among other things), so
>they're nice to have around.
>
I guess that's a subjective thing...
In 60 years of fumbling around, I've NEVER met a snake that I considered nice to
have around..
I'm only afraid of 3 kinds of snakes:
little ones, big ones and live ones
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 10:35am (EDT-3) [email protected]
(mac=A0davis) doth sayeth:
I guess that's a subjective thing...
In 60 years of fumbling around, I've NEVER met a snake that I considered
nice to have around..
I'm only afraid of 3 kinds of snakes:
little ones, big ones and live ones
I'm not "afraid" of snakes, but if you ever want to move, you can
be my neighbor anytime.
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
Good ideas from all. Tom made me think a little, so I researched a bit more
and found this link.
http://myfwc.com/viewing/species/snakesn.html
They describe the regular blacksnake babies as being slate grey with
blotches, and shaking their tails when trapped, and often mistaken for
rattlers. I know for a fact I've got a big blacksnake living around my
neighbor's house because I see it every other day or so. I think I'll give
it a few days, look around some more (carefully) before I jump to any
conclusions. Meanwhile the dog can poop on the other side of the yard :)
Thanks to all.
"Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yes it's OT, but you all seem to have such a broad base of knowledge here,
> thought you wouldn't mind helping a fellow woodworker out.
>
> (Central Fl area)
>
> Walked out on our pool/screened patio area this morning with my Golden
> Retriever and found a little baby snake had gotten into the area, and was
> trying to get back out. I see black snakes and garter (sic?) snakes quite
> often around the house. I don't have any fear of snakes, and just pick
> them up and take them out behind our house to a retention pond area and
> set them loose. But this one looked different and started shaking his
> tail (amazing how fast it was going) when I approached. I used a broom to
> direct him out the screen door into the back yard, paying close attention
> to his coloring, head, tail etc.
>
> A quick search on the internet turned up his twin brother:
> http://www.attention-to-details.com/newslog/46u-baby-rattlesnake-rescue.asp
>
> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
> Any advice ?
>
> JimInFl
>
I prefer
"Red on yellow, kill the bastard,
red on black, kill the bastard"
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
> ...
>> D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further north):
> ...
>> They are sometimes confused with the harmless king snake, which is a very
>> good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red on yellow, friendly fellow - red
>> on black, look out Jack!"
> ...
>
> Better relearn your ditty -- you're backwards.
>
> "Red and yellow, kill a fellow..." is more useful to remember.
>
> --
I'd kill all the (f)'king snakes too. If I have a rat problem, I'll get a cat.
I've just come back from visiting friends in Cyprus (f. hot, since you ask). They have a breed of cat
that was brought over from Egypt, that is bred specifically to kill snakes. I guess they have some
mongoose in them.
My friends had rescued (aka adopted) two stray kittens of this breed, and they were about 6 months old
when they brought their first dead snake home. I have no idea how they killed it, but the snake was so
big they couldn't lift it, and had to drag it into the kitchen to show "mummy".
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Dave Gordon wrote:
>> I prefer
>>
>> "Red on yellow, kill the bastard,
>> red on black, kill the bastard"
>
> If it has that look and you can't remember, best err on the side of
> safety, but king snakes eat rattlesnakes (among other things), so
> they're nice to have around.
>
>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further
>>>> north): ... They are sometimes confused with the harmless king
>>>> snake, which is a very good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red
>>>> on
>>>> yellow, friendly fellow - red on black, look out Jack!"
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Better relearn your ditty -- you're backwards.
>>>
>>> "Red and yellow, kill a fellow..." is more useful to remember.
>>>
>>> --
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
>
"Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
> Any advice ?
>
One has to wonder why anyone would come to a woodworking newsgroup for
advice on dealing with potentially poisonous snakes...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Swingman" wrote in message
> other poisonous snakes in the US will have a vertical slit for the pupil.
>
>
> --
We have Pine snakes that look like our Timber rattlers. They even coil and
buzz there tail. Tried the eye thing but decided fast retreat was better
choice :)
When I go near my fire wood I wear them cow poke boots(Heavy sided ones).
Ounce of prevention thing
>
>
>
>
>
>> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
>> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
>> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
>> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
>> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>>
>> Any advice ?
Just saw the msg.
My advice, get a 5 gallon bucket and relocate them. I just moved to south
GA and so far have caught 2 baby rattlers. In TN we had more of a problem
with copperheads. I kill neither, just moved them to an area w/o people.
Do a goggle search and see how many people in the US die from snake bites.
I think you will find that MAYBE 5 people a year die from them and 4.5 of
those people were 'playing' with the snake at the time.
I have found most people have an irrational fear of snakes and firearms. It
comes from ignorance, do a little research on the subject and you'll realize
that a snake, even a 4 foot rattler, isn't really that dangerous as long as
you don't do anything stupid.
>> I know for a fact I've got a big blacksnake living around my neighbor's
>> house because I see it every other day or so. I think I'll give it a few
>> days, look around some more (carefully) before I jump to any conclusions.
>> Meanwhile the dog can poop on the other side of the yard :)
>
> If in fact it is a black snake, they are known to keep the rat population
> under control.
>
> Black sankes are very useful.
And rattle snakes are vegetarians? One of the reasons I don't kill snakes
is because the are very good at keeping the rat and mouse population down.
I do move the venomous ones deeper into the woods but its more to protect
the dogs than me.
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:37:29 +0800, John B wrote:
>
>> Just my 2 bobs worth.
>> "the only good snake is a dead snake"
>> We have plenty in Oz, and any that find their way into my yard end up
>> coming to grief with the harp end of a spade.
>
>Yeah, but most of yours are poisonous. Most of the snakes in the US are
>harmless. Only 4 are poisonous. They are:
>
>A. Copperhead (SE U.S.): So lazy they sometimes won't strike even if you
>pick them up - although that's not a good idea. Their poison won't even
>kill a large dog, although a small child might sucumb if not treated.
>
>B. Water moccasin aka cottonmouth (also SSE U.S.): This one is pretty
>poisonous, but you'll only get bit if you swim with one. There is a
>"fake" cottonmouth that mimics the poisonous one and is much more common.
>No poison, but you'll probably get a reaction from its filthy mouth.
>
>C. Rattlesnake (various subspecies all over the U.S.): Most of these can
>kill an adult if not treated, but there have been cases where the victim
>just stayed calm and survived. They normally rattle to warn you off
>before striking, but if you step on one that's not much help.
Here's a story of one 13-year-old's experience with a rattlesnake bite
that went untreated for nearly five hours while he was being
transported to a hospital.
Don't click on the link to the pictures if you have a weak stomach.
http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/index.htm
>D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further north):
>This is the only U.S. snake with neurotoxic venom. Very deadly. But the
>poison glands are in the rear of the mouth, so some people who report
>bites have survived because they only got bitten with the front teeth.
>They are sometimes confused with the harmless king snake, which is a very
>good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red on yellow, friendly fellow - red
>on black, look out Jack!"
>
>BTW, we also have a snake known as the hog-nose viper. It will attack and
>even strike, but always does so with its mouth closed. If that doesn't
>scare you off, it rolls over on its back and plays dead. Only problem is
>that if you flip it onto its belly, it'll flip right back over again :-).
>
>
>
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
Gottem here in Wisc. too. Best bet is to give them room and find out what
they like to hide in and get rid of it. They love my cord wood pile.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jim Bailey" wrote
>> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
>> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
>> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
>> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
>> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>>
>> Any advice ?
>
> Call animal control.
>
> After you call A/C, give them their space.
>
> They mean you no harm unless provoked.
>
> We have are share of R/S here in SoCal, usually responsible for killing a
> couple of pet dogs during the season.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Lew
>
>
"Jim Bailey" wrote in message
> Any advice ?
Quick way to tell if its poisonous (although you want to do this on a dead
or otherwise incapacitated specimen) is to look at an eye. With the
exception of the coral snake, which has red and yellow bands touching, all
other poisonous snakes in the US will have a vertical slit for the pupil.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/08/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Snakes will move on to other places if there is no food source. Remove the
food source...
Small snakes - Bugs.
Large snakes - rodents, etc.
Otherwise, consider them scenery and don't touch.
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
"Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yes it's OT, but you all seem to have such a broad base of knowledge here,
> thought you wouldn't mind helping a fellow woodworker out.
>
> (Central Fl area)
>
> Walked out on our pool/screened patio area this morning with my Golden
> Retriever and found a little baby snake had gotten into the area, and was
> trying to get back out. I see black snakes and garter (sic?) snakes quite
> often around the house. I don't have any fear of snakes, and just pick
> them up and take them out behind our house to a retention pond area and
> set them loose. But this one looked different and started shaking his
> tail (amazing how fast it was going) when I approached. I used a broom to
> direct him out the screen door into the back yard, paying close attention
> to his coloring, head, tail etc.
>
> A quick search on the internet turned up his twin brother:
> http://www.attention-to-details.com/newslog/46u-baby-rattlesnake-rescue.asp
>
> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
> Any advice ?
>
> JimInFl
>
"no spam" responds to
>> A. Copperhead (SE U.S.): So lazy they sometimes won't strike even if you
with:
> I have to disagree with you here, they are shy not lazy. That makes them
> even more dangerous. I have dealt with copperheads, cottonmouths and
> rattlesnakes and of the 3 the copperhead is the one I worried the most
> about and is most likely to be a 'biter'. That's because of their
> shyness; they will not run but lay still and hope don't see them and
> leave. Because they don't move a lot of the times you don't know they are
> there until you have gotten so close they bite you in self defense.
Only snake that I've ever been "chased" by, in the sense that they would
come toward you instead of retreating, is a copperhead.
We had them by the dozens when I was growing up and mowing a big yard during
certain times of the year was guaranteed to scare up two or three. They
almost always came toward me instead of retreating, something I've
experienced enough times to safely say it was a characteristic behavior, at
least for the "Southern" variety we had in south Louisiana.
Politically correct or not, a live copperhead is not a welcome critter on a
farm with small animals and lots of children, so add a lawnmower to the list
of anything-that'll-get-the-job-done-on-the-spot snake killing tools.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/08/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
>> And rattle snakes are vegetarians?
>
> I assume you are being facetious. All snakes are carnivorous.
>
> A small snake in Florida is likely going after small mammals, and
> perhaps lizards. A black racer certainly will take lizards.
My point was all snakes are good for rodent control. There are very few
non-venomous North American snakes can handle a full grown, i.e. breeding
sized, rat. By wiping out your venomous snake population you are most
likely going to have fewer mice but more rats.
>> Just my 2 bobs worth.
>> "the only good snake is a dead snake"
>> We have plenty in Oz, and any that find their way into my yard end up
>> coming to grief with the harp end of a spade.
>
> Yeah, but most of yours are poisonous. Most of the snakes in the US are
> harmless. Only 4 are poisonous. They are:
>
> A. Copperhead (SE U.S.): So lazy they sometimes won't strike even if you
I have to disagree with you here, they are shy not lazy. That makes them
even more dangerous. I have dealt with copperheads, cottonmouths and
rattlesnakes and of the 3 the copperhead is the one I worried the most about
and is most likely to be a 'biter'. That's because of their shyness; they
will not run but lay still and hope don't see them and leave. Because they
don't move a lot of the times you don't know they are there until you have
gotten so close they bite you in self defense.
Most of the time the other two will either run or try to scare you off. The
cottonmouth by flashing his white mouth, the rattlesnake by rattling.
> B. Water moccasin aka cottonmouth (also SSE U.S.): This one is pretty
> poisonous, but you'll only get bit if you swim with one. There is a
Or they drop into the boat with you. Fishing in the South can be very
exciting because cottonmouths, and other snakes, like to climb into low
hanging tree limbs to bash in the sun. When scared their instinct is to
quickly drop into the water. FYI, a boat moving along quietly with an
electric trolling motor usually doesn't scare them until it is VERY close to
them,. Can you right under them? I thought you could. :)
Kill the snake and be especially careful of the baby ones.
"Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yes it's OT, but you all seem to have such a broad base of knowledge here,
> thought you wouldn't mind helping a fellow woodworker out.
>
> (Central Fl area)
>
> Walked out on our pool/screened patio area this morning with my Golden
> Retriever and found a little baby snake had gotten into the area, and was
> trying to get back out. I see black snakes and garter (sic?) snakes quite
> often around the house. I don't have any fear of snakes, and just pick
> them up and take them out behind our house to a retention pond area and
> set them loose. But this one looked different and started shaking his
> tail (amazing how fast it was going) when I approached. I used a broom to
> direct him out the screen door into the back yard, paying close attention
> to his coloring, head, tail etc.
>
> A quick search on the internet turned up his twin brother:
> http://www.attention-to-details.com/newslog/46u-baby-rattlesnake-rescue.asp
>
> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
> Any advice ?
>
> JimInFl
>
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:00:43 -0400, "Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote:
Jim.. Along with the other info here, I'd add food source..
We never had much in the way of snakes or varmints here in our area of Baja
until our neighbor put up a bunch of bird feeders... He has his own ecology over
there now, spilling into our lot.
The bird seed attracted chip monks or ground squirrels, the birds eating the
feed attracted bigger varmints, the ground squirrels attracted snakes, etc...
>Yes it's OT, but you all seem to have such a broad base of knowledge here,
>thought you wouldn't mind helping a fellow woodworker out.
>
>(Central Fl area)
>
>Walked out on our pool/screened patio area this morning with my Golden
>Retriever and found a little baby snake had gotten into the area, and was
>trying to get back out. I see black snakes and garter (sic?) snakes quite
>often around the house. I don't have any fear of snakes, and just pick them
>up and take them out behind our house to a retention pond area and set them
>loose. But this one looked different and started shaking his tail (amazing
>how fast it was going) when I approached. I used a broom to direct him out
>the screen door into the back yard, paying close attention to his coloring,
>head, tail etc.
>
>A quick search on the internet turned up his twin brother:
>http://www.attention-to-details.com/newslog/46u-baby-rattlesnake-rescue.asp
>
>I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
>here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
>baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
>kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
>yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
>Any advice ?
>
>JimInFl
>
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:05:25 GMT, "no spam" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> My advice, get a 5 gallon bucket and relocate them.
>>
>> Good job for animal control.
>
>By the time animal control gets there the odds are the snake is going to be
>gone. Unless someone is keeping it there which is a better way to get bit
>than trying to get it into a bucket.
>
We had an interesting snake event here a few months ago:
A friend of our neighbor has been living in their RV while building a house..
The house is finished and they're moving stuff from the trailer to the house and
from the carport to the house..
He picks up a dresser in the carport and it buzzes at him... oh,oh..
Sets it down and investigates from a distance and finds that the top drawer is
empty except for a very upset rattlesnake...
He calls my neighbor, who asks him "why did you call me?"
The guy says that because my neighbor used to farm, he must have experience with
snakes, right?
Neighbor says that he has that experience and doesn't desire any more,
especially dealing with snakes in furniture.. tells him to call security..
(We live in what you could loosely call a gated community and it's patrolled by
private patrol)
He and I both asked "what can security do?" and he said "More than I will".. lol
To everyone's surprise, security showed up 20 min later with an "ecology" team,
who captured the snake and took it with them, presumably to release in the
desert...
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:31:57 -0400, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
>> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
>> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
>> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
>> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>>
>> Any advice ?
>>
>
>One has to wonder why anyone would come to a woodworking newsgroup for
>advice on dealing with potentially poisonous snakes...
As in most newsgroups, you can judge a topic from the number of responses...
Folks will talk about things that interest them and ignore the things that
don't...
If this was a tight-ass monitored group, there would be no replies..
Isn't self censorship wonderful?
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Jim Bailey wrote:
> Yes it's OT, but you all seem to have such a broad base of knowledge
> here, thought you wouldn't mind helping a fellow woodworker out.
>
> (Central Fl area)
>
> Walked out on our pool/screened patio area this morning with my
> Golden
> Retriever and found a little baby snake had gotten into the area,
> and
> was trying to get back out. I see black snakes and garter (sic?)
> snakes quite often around the house. I don't have any fear of
> snakes, and just pick them up and take them out behind our house to
> a
> retention pond area and set them loose. But this one looked
> different and started shaking his tail (amazing how fast it was
> going) when I approached. I used a broom to direct him out the
> screen door into the back yard, paying close attention to his
> coloring, head, tail etc.
>
> A quick search on the internet turned up his twin brother:
> http://www.attention-to-details.com/newslog/46u-baby-rattlesnake-rescue.asp
>
> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years
> living here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is
> if
> there is a baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire
> to
> hunt down and kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son,
> ME! out there doing yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>
> Any advice ?
When I lived in Florida we used to see two or three a year, generally
just passing through. Always killed them on general principle, but
they never actually did any damage except to a cat who thought he was
a mongoose.
Yeah, you can get bitten--they don't always warn you--but generally if
you leave them alone they'll leave you alone. Learn their habits and
don't reach where snake is likely to be resting unless you're sure
there's no snake there and you shouldn't have a problem with them.
The kid and the dog are the real worries because they'll try to mess
with the snake and the snake will defend itself.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Jim Bailey" wrote
>> I'd heard about rattlesnakes in FL before, but in almost 30 years living
>> here, I'd never seen one. Of course what comes to mind, is if there is a
>> baby then there must be a mother too. I have no desire to hunt down and
>> kill the snakes, but I can't let my dog, wife, son, ME! out there doing
>> yard work and, well, you know what I mean.
>>
>> Any advice ?
>
> Call animal control.
>
> After you call A/C, give them their space.
>
> They mean you no harm unless provoked.
>
> We have are share of R/S here in SoCal, usually responsible for killing a
> couple of pet dogs during the season.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Lew
>
>
Just my 2 bobs worth.
"the only good snake is a dead snake"
We have plenty in Oz, and any that find their way into my yard end up
coming to grief with the harp end of a spade.
John
"Scott Cox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lew Hodgett" wrote.....
>
> .....
>>
>> If you screw up and end up in the E/R, then what have you saved?
>>
>
> It was a baby snake. If you relate that to a trip to the ER then it's time
> to face some fears.
it takes a lot of physical resources of the snake to generate the venom. a
large snake knows this and will bite but won't inject (it knows it can't eat
something so large). a baby snake doesn't know this, and injects on almost
every bite.
>>
>> Of course, you want to be a cowboy, that's your business.
>>
>
> That's how we do things here in Texas. You must be one of those "metro
> men" I've heard about. Maybe you should get outdoors more? :-)
>
> Scott
> (who doesn't need govt. agency to kill baby snake for me)
regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
Larry Blanchard wrote:
...
> D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further north):
...
> They are sometimes confused with the harmless king snake, which is a very
> good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red on yellow, friendly fellow - red
> on black, look out Jack!"
...
Better relearn your ditty -- you're backwards.
"Red and yellow, kill a fellow..." is more useful to remember.
--
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:05:25 +0000, no spam wrote:
>
>> I have to disagree with you here, they are shy not lazy. That makes them
>> even more dangerous. I have dealt with copperheads, cottonmouths and
>> rattlesnakes and of the 3 the copperhead is the one I worried the most about
>> and is most likely to be a 'biter'. That's because of their shyness; they
>> will not run but lay still and hope don't see them and leave. Because they
>> don't move a lot of the times you don't know they are there until you have
>> gotten so close they bite you in self defense.
>
> I can only go from experience. Some of us found one on the playground in
> 6th grade and handed it around to each other, not knowing it was venomous.
> We finally put it in a glass jar and took it back to class. The teacher
> had a fit! Told us to go out and kill it. We took it back to the corner
> of the playground and turned it loose :-).
>
> In Virginia, a neighbor's dog (Labrador) got bitten several times when he
> attacked a group of copperheads sunning themselves. His son also got bit
> when he rushed in to "save" the dog. Both got promptly treated and were
> back out playing in a couple of days - hopefully a little wiser :-).
>
Dragged a couple of old memories out of the dusty depths.
When I was a youngster in about grade 6 or 7 at primary school, we owned
a dairy farm.
During hay cutting and bailing season it was not uncommon (read very
common)to knock the head of a snake while cutting or have a couple
bailed in the hay. These where Dugites, very deadly and have been known
to grow to about the 6' mark. Anyhow, Dad clipped one with the hay
cutter, reckon it was about 10' long (well seemed it to young bloke)
probably around the 3-4' mark. He suggested that I take it school to
show the other kids,mostly townies) and the teacher.
Monday morning came and I dutifully caught the bus for the 10 mile ride
into school with my prize, in a sugar bag.
While showing my school mates, somehow "Show the Teacher" became "lets
put it in her desk drawer"
The snake was carefully coiled in the top drawer with a piece of paper
covering the end where the head should have been.
Well needless to say, the teacher (First time in the bush from the city)
opened the drawer and all hell broke loose.
My mate and I got six of the best on the arse from the head master along
with having to write out a thousand lines at home. Can't remember what
they were now.
When I got home the old man gave me clip under the ear as well,between
fits of laughter, though I think that was more for getting caught than
doing what we did.
All the best
John
Dave Gordon wrote:
> I prefer
>
> "Red on yellow, kill the bastard,
> red on black, kill the bastard"
If it has that look and you can't remember, best err on the side of
safety, but king snakes eat rattlesnakes (among other things), so
they're nice to have around.
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> ...
>>> D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further
>>> north): ... They are sometimes confused with the harmless king
>>> snake, which is a very good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red
>>> on
>>> yellow, friendly fellow - red on black, look out Jack!"
>> ...
>>
>> Better relearn your ditty -- you're backwards.
>>
>> "Red and yellow, kill a fellow..." is more useful to remember.
>>
>> --
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Dave Gordon wrote:
> I'd kill all the (f)'king snakes too. If I have a rat problem, I'll
> get a cat.
>
> I've just come back from visiting friends in Cyprus (f. hot, since
> you ask). They have a breed of cat
> that was brought over from Egypt, that is bred specifically to kill
> snakes. I guess they have some
> mongoose in them.
> My friends had rescued (aka adopted) two stray kittens of this
> breed,
> and they were about 6 months old
> when they brought their first dead snake home. I have no idea how
> they killed it, but the snake was so
> big they couldn't lift it, and had to drag it into the kitchen to
> show "mummy".
Cats have fun with non-venomous snakes, although they tend to use them
as toys instead of killing them. Don't know how they do against
European venomous snakes, but the pit vipers (rattlesnake, copperhead,
and cottonmouth) supposedly can make short work of a mongoose (the pit
vipers strike from a horizontal S-curve, the cobras and their kin
strike from a vertical stance that makes them less agile), although I
can't find a credible report of such an encounter ever having actually
occurred.
On the other hand, California ground squirrels apparently can fight
rattlesnakes succesfully
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-squirrel18aug18,1,3991018.story?track=rss.
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Dave Gordon wrote:
>>> I prefer
>>>
>>> "Red on yellow, kill the bastard,
>>> red on black, kill the bastard"
>>
>> If it has that look and you can't remember, best err on the side of
>> safety, but king snakes eat rattlesnakes (among other things), so
>> they're nice to have around.
>>
>>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further
>>>>> north): ... They are sometimes confused with the harmless king
>>>>> snake, which is a very good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red
>>>>> on
>>>>> yellow, friendly fellow - red on black, look out Jack!"
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Better relearn your ditty -- you're backwards.
>>>>
>>>> "Red and yellow, kill a fellow..." is more useful to remember.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>
>> --
>> --
>> --John
>> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
There was an interesting article in yesterdays Globe and Mail about honey
badgers; see here
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070821.wbadgermain21/BNStory/International/
"Dave Gordon" <d@p> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>>Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 3:11pm [email protected] (J. Clarke) doth
>>sayeth:
>><snip> On the other hand, California ground squirrels apparently can
>>fight rattlesnakes succesfully <snip>
>
>> Remember watching either Animal Planet or National Geographic on
>>TV, quite awhile back. They were doing a show on some rather mean
>>little animal, somewhere in Africa. Damned if I can recall what it was.
>>Anyway a mainsay in it's diet is very poisonous snakes. Someting like a
>>very mean mongoose with a constant hangover. Anyway, the little bugger
>>proceeds to kill a snake that has enough venom to probably kill an
>>elephant, getting zapped in the face first. The snake dies, the wee
>>little beasty drops. Then after about 8 hours, the little beast gets
>>up, dines, and moves on. Makes one very thankful they're about the size
>>of a housecat and not a lion say. Hmm, honey badger is the name that
>>comes to mind, but I'm not sure that's it.
>
> The man from Wikipedia, he say yes.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratel
>
>
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 3:11pm [email protected] (J.=A0Clarke) doth
sayeth:
<snip> On the other hand, California ground squirrels apparently can
fight rattlesnakes succesfully <snip>
Remember watching either Animal Planet or National Geographic on
TV, quite awhile back. They were doing a show on some rather mean
little animal, somewhere in Africa. Damned if I can recall what it was.
Anyway a mainsay in it's diet is very poisonous snakes. Someting like a
very mean mongoose with a constant hangover. Anyway, the little bugger
proceeds to kill a snake that has enough venom to probably kill an
elephant, getting zapped in the face first. The snake dies, the wee
little beasty drops. Then after about 8 hours, the little beast gets
up, dines, and moves on. Makes one very thankful they're about the size
of a housecat and not a lion say. Hmm, honey badger is the name that
comes to mind, but I'm not sure that's it.
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
>"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 3:11pm [email protected] (J. Clarke) doth
>sayeth:
><snip> On the other hand, California ground squirrels apparently can
>fight rattlesnakes succesfully <snip>
> Remember watching either Animal Planet or National Geographic on
>TV, quite awhile back. They were doing a show on some rather mean
>little animal, somewhere in Africa. Damned if I can recall what it was.
>Anyway a mainsay in it's diet is very poisonous snakes. Someting like a
>very mean mongoose with a constant hangover. Anyway, the little bugger
>proceeds to kill a snake that has enough venom to probably kill an
>elephant, getting zapped in the face first. The snake dies, the wee
>little beasty drops. Then after about 8 hours, the little beast gets
>up, dines, and moves on. Makes one very thankful they're about the size
>of a housecat and not a lion say. Hmm, honey badger is the name that
>comes to mind, but I'm not sure that's it.
The man from Wikipedia, he say yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratel
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 11:27am (EDT+5) d@p (Dave=A0Gordon) doth sayeth:
The man from Wikipedia, he say yes.
Yep, that does indeed appear to be the little bugger. I especially
like this two following quites from that link:
They have been named the most fearless animal in the Guinness Book of
World Records for a number of years.
And:
Adult honey badgers rarely serve as prey for lions and leopards;
however, their ferocity and thick, loose skin make it hard to grip or
suffocate them and predation difficult. Old, weak honey badgers are more
likely to fall prey to leopards, lions, and pythons, but even old honey
badgers will defend themselves as vigorously as possible. In one case,
shown on an episode of Animal Planet, an old female honey badger that
was nearly toothless and had one blind eye was attacked by a leopard. It
took the leopard about one hour to kill the honey badger.
Hmm, I wonder. If they imported a batch of those, and turned them
loose, would the pit bull population go down? LMAO I think I'd about
as soon live in bear country as to find out.
JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso
>>> A. Copperhead (SE U.S.): So lazy they sometimes won't strike even if
>>> you
>
> with:
>
>> I have to disagree with you here, they are shy not lazy. That makes them
>> even more dangerous. I have dealt with copperheads, cottonmouths and
>> rattlesnakes and of the 3 the copperhead is the one I worried the most
>> about and is most likely to be a 'biter'. That's because of their
>> shyness; they will not run but lay still and hope don't see them and
>> leave. Because they don't move a lot of the times you don't know they
>> are there until you have gotten so close they bite you in self defense.
>
> Only snake that I've ever been "chased" by, in the sense that they would
> come toward you instead of retreating, is a copperhead.
As in the human world not all snakes act the way they are supposed to.
> We had them by the dozens when I was growing up and mowing a big yard
> during certain times of the year was guaranteed to scare up two or three.
> They almost always came toward me instead of retreating, something I've
> experienced enough times to safely say it was a characteristic behavior,
> at least for the "Southern" variety we had in south Louisiana.
Might have something to do with the mower. Of all the copperheads I've
dealt with would just lay as still as possible until you were within
striking distance. Makes then the hardest to find but the easiest to catch.
> Politically correct or not, a live copperhead is not a welcome critter on
> a farm with small animals and lots of children, so add a lawnmower to the
> list of anything-that'll-get-the-job-done-on-the-spot snake killing tools.
No venomous snake remains near the house or barn but neither are they killed
just because. They are caught and relocated. Lots of room around here for
everyone.
>> There are very few non-venomous North American snakes can handle a
>> full grown, i.e. breeding sized, rat.
>
> Few, venomous or non-venomous. The only rattlesnake that gets big enough
> for that is the Eastern Diamondback. The only non-venomous that get that
> big regularly are the Black Rat, Everglades Rat, and the Indigo. The
> Eastern Pine and Bull can get big enough, but rarely.
>
> I have several snakes in my collection that do well with a "medium" rat.
I used to keep rats as pets as well as grew up on a farm where trapping
(poisoning, shooting, etc.) rats was one of the jobs. I can tell you that
your "medium" feeder rat is just about as big as a wild rat will get.
Taking a wild rat that was as big as even my adult female whites was
unusual.
>> By wiping out your venomous snake population you are most likely
>> going to have fewer mice but more rats.
>
> Huh?
Given two snakes of the same size the venomous one will get more of the
larger meals because he will have fewer get away. Therefore when you have
fewer venomous snakes around more rats will get away. Also the snakes seem
to know this and don't try for rats but go for the smaller but more sure
meal of mice.
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:05:25 GMT, "no spam" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> And rattle snakes are vegetarians?
>>
>> I assume you are being facetious. All snakes are carnivorous.
>>
>> A small snake in Florida is likely going after small mammals, and
>> perhaps lizards. A black racer certainly will take lizards.
>
>My point was all snakes are good for rodent control. There are very few
>non-venomous North American snakes can handle a full grown, i.e. breeding
>sized, rat. By wiping out your venomous snake population you are most
>likely going to have fewer mice but more rats.
>
Personally, I'd be VERY happy with that trade off...
Got a house full of cats to handle mice and rats but would rather they don't
mess with rattlers..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:37:29 +0800, John B wrote:
> Just my 2 bobs worth.
> "the only good snake is a dead snake"
> We have plenty in Oz, and any that find their way into my yard end up
> coming to grief with the harp end of a spade.
Yeah, but most of yours are poisonous. Most of the snakes in the US are
harmless. Only 4 are poisonous. They are:
A. Copperhead (SE U.S.): So lazy they sometimes won't strike even if you
pick them up - although that's not a good idea. Their poison won't even
kill a large dog, although a small child might sucumb if not treated.
B. Water moccasin aka cottonmouth (also SSE U.S.): This one is pretty
poisonous, but you'll only get bit if you swim with one. There is a
"fake" cottonmouth that mimics the poisonous one and is much more common.
No poison, but you'll probably get a reaction from its filthy mouth.
C. Rattlesnake (various subspecies all over the U.S.): Most of these can
kill an adult if not treated, but there have been cases where the victim
just stayed calm and survived. They normally rattle to warn you off
before striking, but if you step on one that's not much help.
D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further north):
This is the only U.S. snake with neurotoxic venom. Very deadly. But the
poison glands are in the rear of the mouth, so some people who report
bites have survived because they only got bitten with the front teeth.
They are sometimes confused with the harmless king snake, which is a very
good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red on yellow, friendly fellow - red
on black, look out Jack!"
BTW, we also have a snake known as the hog-nose viper. It will attack and
even strike, but always does so with its mouth closed. If that doesn't
scare you off, it rolls over on its back and plays dead. Only problem is
that if you flip it onto its belly, it'll flip right back over again :-).
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:52:39 +0000, Art Greenberg wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:18:49 -0700, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> BTW, we also have a snake known as the hog-nose viper. It will
>> attack and even strike, but always does so with its mouth closed. If
>> that doesn't scare you off, it rolls over on its back and plays dead.
>> Only problem is that if you flip it onto its belly, it'll flip right
>> back over again :-).
>
> Not a viper at all. The Eastern Hognose eats frogs and fish. The Western
> Hognose eats rodents. The Eastern "plays dead" much more readily than
> the Western. Unfortunately, both loose the tendency to do that in
> captivity.
>
Agreed. It ISN'T a viper, that's just the common name. A lot of farmers
in KY, where I grew up, were convinced it was a poisonous viper.
> Oh, and I _have_ been bitten by a Western Hognose. Its mouth sure wasn't
> closed.
Don't know about the Western variety, but I participated in an educational
program put on by U of K many years ago at the state fair. We had samples
of every snake native to KY. One was the hognose. I regularly put my
finger into its mouth as part of the lecture to prove it wouldn't bite -
it never did.
You're also right about the rapid taming. We had to get another wild one
about every other day to demonstrate the playing dead action :-).
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:05:25 +0000, no spam wrote:
> I have to disagree with you here, they are shy not lazy. That makes them
> even more dangerous. I have dealt with copperheads, cottonmouths and
> rattlesnakes and of the 3 the copperhead is the one I worried the most about
> and is most likely to be a 'biter'. That's because of their shyness; they
> will not run but lay still and hope don't see them and leave. Because they
> don't move a lot of the times you don't know they are there until you have
> gotten so close they bite you in self defense.
I can only go from experience. Some of us found one on the playground in
6th grade and handed it around to each other, not knowing it was venomous.
We finally put it in a glass jar and took it back to class. The teacher
had a fit! Told us to go out and kill it. We took it back to the corner
of the playground and turned it loose :-).
In Virginia, a neighbor's dog (Labrador) got bitten several times when he
attacked a group of copperheads sunning themselves. His son also got bit
when he rushed in to "save" the dog. Both got promptly treated and were
back out playing in a couple of days - hopefully a little wiser :-).
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:35:26 -0700, mac davis wrote:
> I'm only afraid of 3 kinds of snakes:
>
> little ones, big ones and live ones
Well, that certainly puts you into the majority :-).
I find them really interesting. Who woulda' thunk that a land animal
without legs could be so successful over the eons.
But my wife has the same opinion as you, so I haven't had any since I got
married (38 years ago).