Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
work/woodshop.
The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
(maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
Thanks,
Bill
First step is to find out the amperage of your utility supply line to
the main panel.
Then work out what demands your household appliances are going to
demand.
You said detached garage so install a subpanel for the garage. This is
probably a job for an electrician.
Tomh may well be correct in that if your tools are not very high demand
you may be able to run them one or two at a time on the small existing
line.
Seems like one of those situations where you can be penny wise and
pound foolish.
You have the opportunity to set up a great shop for yourself. If you
enjoy woodworking, a 220v table saw and a few other 220v stationery
tools may well come into the picture sooner than you think. At a
minimum you should install one decently sized 220v outlet and it
probably won't cost all that much more to install a decent sub-panel as
has been mentioned by others. If it were my garage and my house I'd
get the sub-panel.
Bill.
If your main breaker (or fuse) is a 100 amp supply you probably need to
find out from your utility company what it will cost to upgrade to at
least 200 amp supply.
My place runs 50 amp for stove/oven
30 amp for water heater
20 amp for furnace
15 amp for wall outlets (3 circuits)
10 amp for lights (4 circuits)
Upgrade the main box for the house and add a subpanel for the garage.
You are probably going to have to add or upgrade the house wiring
unless you are running gas for stove / water heater / space heater.
here's a "seat of the pants, first look" thing to do:
go out there. turn on all of the lights and all of the machines that
might self start- air compressor, AC, etc. then fire up your biggest
machine and feed a thick piece of hardwood through it.
if the lights dim or you pop the breaker, you need to run more
circuits.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
>> How many machines
>>can one guy use at a time?
>
>
> Two. Any fair sized tool and a dust collector is overload.
>
>
Don't forget things like an air compressor or air conditioner or heater that
may kick on and off by themselves.
-John
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:15:57 -0400, Bill Davis Jr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I would upgrade it to a 30 or 40 qmp breaker. You won't be pulling
> that many amps (since youcan only run one machine at a time, but you
> don't want to be popping circuits. If you have the ability or need you
> might want to run another 110 line there and give yourself 220.
I sure hope you meant to say something other than what actually appears
above. You can't simply throw a 30 or 40 amp breaker on a circuit wired for
a 20 amp breaker. Likewise, the suggestion to simply run another 110 line
to get 220 isn't what should be done. If he wants 220/240 in the garage,
then he needs to run the proper 220 service out there. I just know you
really meant to say something other than what you said above...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bill Davis Jr wrote:
> Thanks all. You have given me something to think about.
>
> If I do install a sub-panel, I might as well go as big I can. With
> that I will have to check my main panel in the house. I know it is a
> Square D 100 amp service. This might have to be upgraded as well as
> there is only af ew opening left for additional breakers.
>
> Bill
If you are running out of breaker slots you can double up by using some
Square-D "tandem" breakers. They're two breakers that take a single
slot. See:
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1414590343.1129846360@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddfmldejiecgelceffdfgidgjl.0&CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc/searchResults.jsp&MID=9876&N=2984+3004&pos=n04
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)
On 20 Oct 2005 17:53:32 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Bill.
>
>If your main breaker (or fuse) is a 100 amp supply you probably need to
>find out from your utility company what it will cost to upgrade to at
>least 200 amp supply.
From the utility company's point of view, it probably won't cost a
cent. Odds are they won't even change the feeder. That's what happened
when I upgraded from 100A to 200A in Illinois several years ago. Even
if they were to change the feeder, they may eat the cost (just like
running service to a new site) as a loss leader against future
earnings.
The costs will be in the load center (breaker panel w/ main breaker)
and new breakers. That's if he does it himself, although it's not for
the inexperienced or faint of heart.
If an electrician does it is where the costs come in and it could be
anywhere from as low as several hundred dollars (plus the load center
and breakers) up to a coupla thou. Yes, I've seen estimates that high
quoted right here on the wreck.
And don't forget the permit (cost usually nominal, like $40).
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
Put outlets where you need them. Even though #14 wire may be legal for 15A
circuits where you are, use at least #12. Code in most places will allow
12 devices / circuit, but the guy who set that up must have been thinking of
60 & 100W light bulbs. If you go with the subpanel that most of the
contributors have suggested, try to have dedicated circuits for your higher
amperage tools, and for tools that may get stalled.
If you have to use extension cords, use #14 for tools under 10A, and #12 for
tools over 10A, and keep the cords as short as possible (no coiling -
increases resistance). Some people are going to say that the larger wire
size is not necessary, but I am thinking of start up loads. My Father had a
RAS, supposedly 12A, that kept blowing 15A fuses. He was using 100' of #16
cord to go 30'. I wired his shop with #12 and 15A rated outlets, & a 15A
fuse. No more blown circuits. The larger wire size means less resistance,
less heat, less overcurrent on the fuse, and less voltage drop to your tool.
Bruce Nelson
"Bill Davis Jr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
> The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
> work/woodshop.
>
> The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
> powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
> outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
>
> So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
> Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
> be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
> (maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
>
> Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
Man, I'd love to have that kind of problem!
If you work by yourself it's unlikely you would be running more than 1
tool plus a DC and lighting (and perhaps an air compressor?) at the same
time. 60 amps min should do. I would want to put a subpanel in the garage
of at least 60 amps, probably wouldn't cost much more to go to
100 assuming the main panel is compatible. You would have to install a
2 pole breaker in the main panel, a 60 or 100 or whatever panel in the
garage, and adequately sized wiring between them.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> How many machines
> can one guy use at a time?
Two. Any fair sized tool and a dust collector is overload.
In article <[email protected]>, Bill Davis Jr <[email protected]> wrote:
>Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
>The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
>work/woodshop.
>
>The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
>powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
>outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
Lots more than one 20A circuit at 120V...
>
>So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
>Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
>be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
>(maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
You'll want at least one 240V circuit, and several 120V circuits.
>
>Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
I'd run a 240V feeder at 60A to a subpanel in the garage, and separate branch
circuits from the subpanel to wherever they're needed.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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Every time you turn on the saw, the lights will dim! You should have a
separate line for tools (best doing like other post suggest)
Just my $0.02
Frank
Tom H wrote:
>I know it sounds crazy, but you may not need any new lines.
>
>If you will be operating only one machine at a time and all your equipment
>is 120 volt, you can calculate the need for additional lines.
>
>Lights don't use much energy.
>Divide the total wattage of lights by 120 and that is your amperage for the
>lights.
>
>Check out the amperage of the garage door opener and add this to the light
>amperage. (you only need to do this if the garage door will be used while a
>power tool is operating)
>
>Check the amperage of the largest tool you have.
>
>If you are still under 20 amps you are OK.
>
>Good Luck.
>
>
>
>
>"Bill Davis Jr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
>>The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
>>work/woodshop.
>>
>>The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
>>powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
>>outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
>>
>>So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
>>Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
>>be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
>>(maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
>>
>>Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Every time you turn on the saw, the lights will dim! You should have a
separate line for tools (best doing like other post suggest)<br>
Just my $0.02<br>
Frank<br>
<br>
Tom H wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I know it sounds crazy, but you may not need any new lines.
If you will be operating only one machine at a time and all your equipment
is 120 volt, you can calculate the need for additional lines.
Lights don't use much energy.
Divide the total wattage of lights by 120 and that is your amperage for the
lights.
Check out the amperage of the garage door opener and add this to the light
amperage. (you only need to do this if the garage door will be used while a
power tool is operating)
Check the amperage of the largest tool you have.
If you are still under 20 amps you are OK.
Good Luck.
"Bill Davis Jr" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:[email protected]">news:[email protected]</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
work/woodshop.
The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
(maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
Thanks,
Bill
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
--------------040703020102080806060509--
"Tom H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I know it sounds crazy, but you may not need any new lines.
>
It sounds crazy because it is crazy.
I was able to run my benchtop saw with a single line like that. When I got
a 1.5 hp saw and switched it on the first time, the lights went out for a
couple of seconds. Scary. Next day I ran a new line.
He is getting a DC at some point. That and the saw or planer will trip the
breaker.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
Read what John wrote (below) again, especially if you missed it the first time. After fighting
sharing one outlet, two lights and a garage door opener with the rest of a 15A circuit that included
the TV in the living room, we rewired the shop. We now have a 60A subpanel with 3 20A circuits, an
A/C - it IS Houston, a spare 220 circuit, insulation and wallboard (I'd use ply for the walls next
time).
The TV picture in the house no longer dims to half size when I use the RAS, the light (actually
several of them now) doesn't dim, and I haven't tripped a breaker in 4 years. We're a 1man & 1
SWMBO shop specializing in custom miscuts, so only have at most two tools and a DC running at the
same time, plus lights, maybe a fan, TV or radio and the A/C. Go with the subpanel. It shouldn't
be $ enough to be a deal breaker if you can handle the installation yourself.
You could pick up a Square D subpanel and a few breakers at the Borg for $50-80. $35 for the #12
wire, plus some boxes and 20A receptacles and staples, I'd be surprised if the materials ran over
$150 for a single car shop. Depending on where your main panel is (I was lucky, it was in the
gara-shop already) getting the power to the shop could cost some bucks if you have to hire it done.
Sure beats turning off the lights, the TV, unplugging the fridge, etc so I can fire up the RAS.
My 2 cents, back to lurking.
Regards,
Roy
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 01:03:21 GMT, John Girouard <[email protected]> wrote:
>Tom H wrote:
>> I know it sounds crazy, but you may not need any new lines.
>>
>> If you will be operating only one machine at a time and all your equipment
>> is 120 volt, you can calculate the need for additional lines.
>>
>> Lights don't use much energy.
>> Divide the total wattage of lights by 120 and that is your amperage for the
>> lights.
>>
>> Check out the amperage of the garage door opener and add this to the light
>> amperage. (you only need to do this if the garage door will be used while a
>> power tool is operating)
>>
>> Check the amperage of the largest tool you have.
>>
>> If you are still under 20 amps you are OK.
>>
>> Good Luck.
>
>All true stuff, but as someone who has a single 15A circuit, and the same
>beast of a planer as the OP, I would HIGHLY suggest you have your lights on
>a different circuit than your big tools. It is no fun having the lights go
>out with a piece of wood connecting you and a slowly spinning-down power
>tool somewhere in the darkness.
>
>-John
Thanks all. You have given me something to think about.
If I do install a sub-panel, I might as well go as big I can. With
that I will have to check my main panel in the house. I know it is a
Square D 100 amp service. This might have to be upgraded as well as
there is only af ew opening left for additional breakers.
Bill
"Bill Davis Jr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
> The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
> work/woodshop.
>
> The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
> powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
> outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
>
> So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
> Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
> be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
> (maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
>
> Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
The more the better. You could run a 100A subpanel in there and be prepared
for just about anything.
On the other hand I get by with a 20A 120V duplex receptacle and one 220V
for the saw. I have kids around so I unplug tools when not in use.
John Girouard <[email protected]> writes:
> All true stuff, but as someone who has a single 15A circuit, and the
> same beast of a planer as the OP, I would HIGHLY suggest you have your
> lights on a different circuit than your big tools. It is no fun having
> the lights go out with a piece of wood connecting you and a slowly
> spinning-down power tool somewhere in the darkness.
I have a 15A circuit, and if I run a bandsaw and a shop vac at the
same time (acting as a duct collector) the circuit break trips.
At work, they have the labs set up so that every other outlet is a
diferent circuit.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
I put in a 100 amp subpanel in my work shop feed by a 60 amp 220v breaker in
the house. It is true that you will only use 1 machine at time assuming that
only you are in the shop so you most likely will never need any more than
60amps 220V.
Add up the amps for all items that might possibley by run at the same time
(Dust collector,Saw,Compressor,Lights,TV,Garage Opener,AC,Heater) and add
50% for future growth.
Remember each circuit should only be loaded to 80% max. 15amp = 12 amp max,
20 amp = 16 amp max so use a 100 amp panel with a lot of circuits and you
will have a safe shop.
Do it right and you woun't be sorry later, overkill is a good thing when it
comes to electricity.
Kevin
"Bill Davis Jr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
> The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
> work/woodshop.
>
> The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
> powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
> outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
>
> So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
> Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
> be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
> (maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
>
> Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:15:57 -0400, Bill Davis Jr <[email protected]> wrote:
I would upgrade it to a 30 or 40 qmp breaker. You won't be pulling
that many amps (since youcan only run one machine at a time, but you
don't want to be popping circuits. If you have the ability or need you
might want to run another 110 line there and give yourself 220.
>Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
>The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
>work/woodshop.
>
>The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
>powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
>outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
>
>So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
>Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
>be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
>(maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
>
>Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill
Bill wrote:
>If your main breaker (or fuse) is a 100 amp supply you probably need to
>find out from your utility company what it will cost to upgrade to at
>least 200 amp supply.
<snip>
Not necessarily so.
You will need a space in the existing load center to install a 2P-60A,
branch C'kt Bkr.
The 2P-60A is used to protect the sub feed to the garage.
If you have one, use it and get on with life.
If you don't have branch spaces, then you might as well upgrade to a
200A main panel.
Lew
I know it sounds crazy, but you may not need any new lines.
If you will be operating only one machine at a time and all your equipment
is 120 volt, you can calculate the need for additional lines.
Lights don't use much energy.
Divide the total wattage of lights by 120 and that is your amperage for the
lights.
Check out the amperage of the garage door opener and add this to the light
amperage. (you only need to do this if the garage door will be used while a
power tool is operating)
Check the amperage of the largest tool you have.
If you are still under 20 amps you are OK.
Good Luck.
"Bill Davis Jr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
> The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
> work/woodshop.
>
> The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
> powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
> outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
>
> So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
> Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
> be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
> (maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
>
> Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
Tom H wrote:
> I know it sounds crazy, but you may not need any new lines.
>
> If you will be operating only one machine at a time and all your equipment
> is 120 volt, you can calculate the need for additional lines.
>
> Lights don't use much energy.
> Divide the total wattage of lights by 120 and that is your amperage for the
> lights.
>
> Check out the amperage of the garage door opener and add this to the light
> amperage. (you only need to do this if the garage door will be used while a
> power tool is operating)
>
> Check the amperage of the largest tool you have.
>
> If you are still under 20 amps you are OK.
>
> Good Luck.
All true stuff, but as someone who has a single 15A circuit, and the same
beast of a planer as the OP, I would HIGHLY suggest you have your lights on
a different circuit than your big tools. It is no fun having the lights go
out with a piece of wood connecting you and a slowly spinning-down power
tool somewhere in the darkness.
-John
"Bill Davis Jr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Recently moved into a new house. It has a detached one car garage.
> The house is not new and I am going to make the garage my
> work/woodshop.
>
> The previous owner has a 20amp line run to the garage. Right now only
> powering a garage door opener, fluorescent shop light and a couple of
> outlets. What would I need to upgrade to run a decent woodshop?
>
> So far the only things I will be powering are my table saw (Dewalt
> Portable saw), scroll saw, Dewalt DW735 planer and 6" Joiner . Soon to
> be adding a band saw (still determining what I want) a drill press
> (maybe) and some kind of dust collection/air filtration.
>
> Anyone have ideas of what I could do?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
At an absolute minimum, run 30A, 240V, but if you can go at least to 60A. I
have a detached shop and have been getting away with that for 3 years now.
I often think about upgrading but as of yet, I haven't tripped the feeder
breaker. I may get into trouble when I finally get around to putting in a
DC.
--
Al Reid
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:35:50 GMT, "Tom H" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I know it sounds crazy, but you may not need any new lines.
>
>If you will be operating only one machine at a time
I built a lot of stuff in my garage/shop with nothing but a single
120v and stealing the dryer outlet for my welder. How many machines
can one guy use at a time?
If I was adding, I would probably add big tho. Once you decide one
circuit is not going to be enough you are pretty much forced into a
sub panel. There is a legal way to run a 120/240v "single circuit" but
why bother? For about the same labor and another $100 in parts you can
have all the power you want. It is hard to think 60a would not be
plenty. Most amateurs seriously overestimate real load.