Bruce Brooks started a promising thread in
alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
"How Will I Learn If No One Says It's Ugly"
and PM6564 has volunteered to be a sacrificial
lamb with his "An exercise in critiques"
post.
Most of us who are recreational woodworkers probably work
basically in isolation. And most of us I'd bet are
self taught, gleaning what we can from books and
magazines with a bit of Norm or Roy thrown in. The
opportunities for constructive critiques of our pieces
by other, more experienced woodworkers, is sorely
lacking. We might get feedback from a spouse, friends
and relatives (not necessarily mutually exclusive
categories) but seldom from woodworking peers, the
people with the knowledge AND the vocabulary to
describe what might need changing, why, suggestions
on what changes to consider making as well as what
works in the piece submitted for critiqueing (sp?).
One of the holes in rec.woodworking is that it doesn't
permit images, other than primitive ASCII diagrams, since,
as often noted, it's a "text only" group. a.b.p.f and
a.b.p.f have been basically "pictures only", with
little descriptive text accompanying the images posted
or in responses to posted pictures of pieces.
In the latter groups "if you don't have anything nice
to say then don't say anything" seems the norm and
so critiqueing (sp?) has been minimal. I sure hope
Bruce's and PM6564's posts are the beginnings of what
can be a very valuable resource for us. Constructive
criticism can make the next piece better or at least
some food for thought.
Check it out if you're interested.
charlie b
On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 03:17:23 GMT, Michael Baglio <[email protected]>
wrote:
>It's easy to toss off a comment like "Nice piece, but the aprons look
>a bit funny to me." It takes a bit more thought, (and
>thoughtfullness), to expand that statement into something along the
>lines of "You might want to try orienting your table aprons so the
>grain goes up in the middle and slopes down at each end, rather than
>the reverse as you've done here. Sometimes, when using woods with
>strong grain patterns, aprons with grains going up at the ends seems
>to give the table a "drooping" quality. By reversing your grain
>orientation, you can give your table a visually appealing "uplifting"
>appearance."
I hold my hand up to posting in the style you eschew, but then I do
that as a newbie, and know no better. What you seem to seek would
require experience, and therefore must come from others who has some.
From what you say, they chose to remain silent for the most part.
I can see that it may be better, for me go back to merely lurking. I
can do english, and thought, I just don't have the experience to make
the content more useful in the way that would add more than a
compliment.
Nice job! ;O)
Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}
Fri, Aug 1, 2003, 2:14pm (EDT-4) [email protected] (charlieb)
Bruce Brooks started a promising thread in
alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking <snip>
To me, at least, "binaries" and "pictures" are the operational
words there.
Most of us who are recreational woodworkers probably work basically in
isolation. <snip>
I much prefer it that way.
One of the holes in rec.woodworking is that it doesn't permit images,
<snip>
One of the strong points you should say. And, you CAN post
pictures here. You just do it with a link. I would like to see people
posting the links to a.b.p.f and a.b.p.f when they have something there,
rather than just saying go there. Easy enough:
news:alt.binaries.pictures.furniture
news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
In the latter groups "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't
say anything" seems the norm and so critiqueing (sp?) has been minimal.
<snip>
Most people confuse critiquing something with calling it ugly, or
putting someone down. Personally, I don't need some idiot from across
the globe telling me what I just made is ugly. Same way, I believe he
doesn't need some idiot telling what he made is ugly. Me, I know if
something I made is ugly - and really don't care what someone else
thinks about it. I don't set about to make ugly things, but some of my
jigs, etc., could probably be accurately described as ugly. They work,
so that's top priority. But the guy across the world, maybe it is ugly,
but it also might be the first thing the guy (or woman - guy in this
case used bisexually - is that the right word? LMAO) has made on his
own, so he thinks it looks great. Why bust his bubble? He'll be able
to look at it soon enough and see it's ugly. Now, if he had made some
really crummy joints say, then you could mention a better way of doing
it next time.
I say if someone posts something and you think it's ugly, just
don't say anything. BUT, if someone posts something and asks for
comments on specifics, joints, fasteners, etc., then I would say give
some constructive criticism.
Check it out if you're interested.
Maybe if it shows up here. I only go to a.b.p.w. and/or a.b.p.f.
to check the pictures.
JOAT
Everything happens for a reason, except possibly football.
- Lu-Tze
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 23 Jul 2003. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/JOATorJackOfAll/page4.html
"Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "John-R W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >We might get feedback from a spouse, friends
> > > > and relatives (not necessarily mutually exclusive
> > > > categories) but seldom from woodworking peers, the
> > > > people with the knowledge AND the vocabulary to
> > > > describe what might need changing, why, suggestions
> > > > on what changes to consider making as well as what
> > > > works in the piece submitted for critiqueing (sp?).
> > >
> > > No "e." Not that I'm being critical....
> > > -- Ernie
> > >
> > If Charliee is likee mee, hee has a lot of theem "e"'s saveed up from
> other
> > words. Now theey aree a dimee a dozeen. Ya gotta usee theem someplacee.
>
> If you'd like to donate them to a worthy cause, see
> http://gadsby.hypermart.net/.
> -- Ernie
>
Thanks!! Ernie, that is so cool. I showed it to my daughter and have
encouraged her to read it as well.
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:14:54 -0800, charlieb <[email protected]>
wrote:
snip of "Invitiation to critique" introduction...
> I sure hope
>Bruce's and PM6564's posts [on ABPW] are the beginnings of what
>can be a very valuable resource for us. Constructive
>criticism can make the next piece better or at least
>some food for thought.
Charlie,
As valuable as this experience has the potential to be for the
woodworker who submits a photo for feedback, I think the real payoff
of this will be seen in the improvement, over time, of the commentors'
abilities to effectively communicate their opinions.
Clearly, endless posts of "NICE PIECE", "GOOD WORK", etc. do little to
improve the craftsman's work, (notwithstanding the value of an
encouraging word), but overgeneralisations in constructive comments
are, I believe, little better because they do _nothing_ to improve the
commenter's communication skills.
It's easy to toss off a comment like "Nice piece, but the aprons look
a bit funny to me." It takes a bit more thought, (and
thoughtfullness), to expand that statement into something along the
lines of "You might want to try orienting your table aprons so the
grain goes up in the middle and slopes down at each end, rather than
the reverse as you've done here. Sometimes, when using woods with
strong grain patterns, aprons with grains going up at the ends seems
to give the table a "drooping" quality. By reversing your grain
orientation, you can give your table a visually appealing "uplifting"
appearance."
It's not about the woodworking, it's a people thing.
If this excersise helps posters here stretch their abilities in
written communication, it will have succeeded in showing the best
quality of Usenet.
Looking forward to it,
Michael Baglio
Chapel Hill
"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>We might get feedback from a spouse, friends
> and relatives (not necessarily mutually exclusive
> categories) but seldom from woodworking peers, the
> people with the knowledge AND the vocabulary to
> describe what might need changing, why, suggestions
> on what changes to consider making as well as what
> works in the piece submitted for critiqueing (sp?).
No "e." Not that I'm being critical....
-- Ernie
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 23:41:26 +0100, Gnube <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I hold my hand up to posting in the style you eschew, but then I do
>that as a newbie, and know no better. What you seem to seek would
>require experience, and therefore must come from others who has some.
>From what you say, they chose to remain silent for the most part.
...snip...
>I can see that it may be better, for me go back to merely lurking.
Gnube, I think that would be unfortunate. Reading the wREC is only
half the fun. If you only lurk, you'll miss out on all the
opportunities to type some horrendously stupid statement and have the
flamers tell ya what an idiot you are. It doesn't take too long
reading this newsgroup to start thinking some of the regular posters
here have asbestos shop aprons. ;>
>I can do english, and thought, I just don't have the experience to make
>the content more useful in the way that would add more than a
>compliment.
What's wrong with a compliment? The reason I said "notwithstanding
the value of an encouraging word" in my original post was to emphasize
just how important they are. :)
>Nice job! ;O)
See?
Best,
Michael Baglio
Chapel Hill
"Mike Hide" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3wVWa.34097$Oz4.10464@rwcrnsc54...
> My critique is of the group as a whole ,it is supposedly for BINARIES
> ,PICTURES and not TEXT . Text should be posted in this group unless it
> directly pertains to a BINARY ....mjh
>
Personally, I'd rather have people post pictures there and then we can
discuss them at length. Imagine a place where we could talk about
woodworking without all the off topic crap and "where do I find a plan for a
pukey duck" posts.
"Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >We might get feedback from a spouse, friends
> > and relatives (not necessarily mutually exclusive
> > categories) but seldom from woodworking peers, the
> > people with the knowledge AND the vocabulary to
> > describe what might need changing, why, suggestions
> > on what changes to consider making as well as what
> > works in the piece submitted for critiqueing (sp?).
>
> No "e." Not that I'm being critical....
> -- Ernie
>
If Charliee is likee mee, hee has a lot of theem "e"'s saveed up from other
words. Now theey aree a dimee a dozeen. Ya gotta usee theem someplacee.
"John-R W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >We might get feedback from a spouse, friends
> > > and relatives (not necessarily mutually exclusive
> > > categories) but seldom from woodworking peers, the
> > > people with the knowledge AND the vocabulary to
> > > describe what might need changing, why, suggestions
> > > on what changes to consider making as well as what
> > > works in the piece submitted for critiqueing (sp?).
> >
> > No "e." Not that I'm being critical....
> > -- Ernie
> >
> If Charliee is likee mee, hee has a lot of theem "e"'s saveed up from
other
> words. Now theey aree a dimee a dozeen. Ya gotta usee theem someplacee.
If you'd like to donate them to a worthy cause, see
http://gadsby.hypermart.net/.
-- Ernie