Flooring

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
>[email protected]:
>
>> My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
>> with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
>> negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?
>
>I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)
>
>Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
>office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
>delaminating.

Delaminating? How does wood delaminate? It's not laminated in the
first place.

>Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
>hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
>looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
>vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
>even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.
>
>John

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 17:08:22 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in news:s410eadhdnkln3ufspcv8aqn24754afsnn@
>4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:13:06 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
>>>floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
>>>and it will be the lowest cost one.
>
>> Lowes carries Bostik , Bruce, Tecsun, Mohawk, and USFloor. 3 1/2 or 4
>> gallon containers $160, $89, $190, $220, and $192 US prices
>> repectively.
>
>Are you looking on the website or in the store? My store
>carries Bruce. That's the only hardwood flooring adhesive
>they actually stock.
>
>Now, they have a ton of choices on the website - but if
>you're going to special order it, you might as well go to
>a flooring store anyway.
>
>John
My stores, locally, don't stock the hardwood either, so if you are
going to order the wood, you may as well order the adhesive as well.
ANd if youy are ordering it, you may as well order the stuff
recommended by the manufacturer. No?? If Bruce Hardwood says use Bruce
adhesive - use it. Then they don't have a leg to stand on if something
goes wrong. - or use Bostik - the "industry standard".

>> More unusual flooring...
>> http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866552490/
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093428/
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093425/
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093423/
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093412/
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093413/
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093418/

>To be honest, most of those look like shit.
>-MIKE-

You really think so? Taste is a personal thing. I have seen two floors
very similar to a couple of those links. One is in a home and the
owners love it. The other is in a business and everyone there thinks
it looks cool and it has held up for several years already.

What do you think of these floors?
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/459507968204127270/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/475059460665098297/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/43487952626037346/
I certainly think those are boring and ugly.

Apparently I'm not the only one in the world who prefers originality.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/524458319076036482/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/327848047845526342/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/270567890088052265/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/204421270559972525/

As for tastes, tomayto tomahto. If I am going to live with something,
flooring, furniture, art, etc., I am certainly picking what I like.

More unusual flooring...
http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment

On 02/13/2015 02:23 PM, Casper wrote:
>> I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
>> have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it. You're
>> talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
>> The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up the
>> seem and cause a lip.
>
> Sounds like you are assuming 4ft x 8ft. I have no intention of laying
> out full sheets. I would either cut down into planks or squares.
>
>> One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
>> ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.
>
> Wood floors can do that too if they are installed correctly. I have
> seen parquet floors and regular hardwood done badly.
>
>> As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
>> will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
>> in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
>> durable that stuff is.
>> -MIKE-
>
> A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
> installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
> him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
> His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.
>
> Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I have
> already picked out but locally there is nothing under $5sq/ft+fees.
> Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I don't want.
>
Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99 sq/ft.
It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 02/14/2015 01:13 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99
>> sq/ft.
>> It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.
>
> Well, I'm glad your satisfied, but...
>
> Bruce is extremely low quality and badly lacking in durability.
> At $2.99 sq, I'd say it's substantially overpriced.
>
> You can probably find Anderson for not much more (altho you
> might have to order it shipped, which adds to the cost).
> Anderson is a much higher quality product.
>
> Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
> flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
> product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
> is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
> more if you go to a flooring dealer.
>
> (btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
> sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
> know this...)
>
> John
>
My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 02/14/2015 05:09 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
> [email protected]:
>
>> My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
>> with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
>> negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?
>
> I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)
>
> Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
> office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
> delaminating.

Any wood flooring will take a beating from an office chair with rollers
unless a floor mat is used.

>
> Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
> hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
> looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
> vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
> even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.
>
> John
>



--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:22:07 PM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:=20
>=20
> > Leon wrote:
> >=20
> >>
> >> I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
> >> ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
> >> surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
> >> warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
> >> in place.
> >=20
> > Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have
> > never seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be
> > sumptin' in the Houstin air...
>=20
> I had one (just one) do that on my deck. Pain to fix, too;
> I wanted to cut across it a ways back from the bend, but I
> didn't want to remove the adjacent planks to allow using a
> circular saw. Plus unscrewing deck screws is a 50/50
> proposition at best (often it's simpler just get a big
> prybar and break them).
>=20
> John

That's what one of these is for:

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/oscillating-tools/variable-speed-o=
scillating-multifunction-power-tool-61219.html

Find the closest joist(s) after the bend and cut out the offending section =
along the mid-point of the top of the joist(s) probably starting with the h=
alf moon blade for the majority of the cut and finishing with a straight bl=
ade plunge cut at the outer edges.

>> I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking
>>Casper
>When you say "it", you mean the current floor right?

You know, the funny part was they really never gave me a clear answer
on floor and or cabinets. The words floor and cabinets seemed to be
interchangeable during that discussion.

>Lightweight concrete can be up to 80% lighter than conventional. But
>you have to talk to competent people. It's amazing what they can do
>to the concrete surface. Stamping, coloring and other tricks.
>But that means more $$. Ask someone that knows their stuff with
>concrete

I agree. My mother wanted to put is a small patio with pavers but the
locals were charging $2200+ for a 10x10 patio, and additional to
remove and rebuild her single doorstep. I told her screw that and go
with stamped concrete. Once I explained it to her, we got a local guy,
she picked a slate pattern and now loves her $1200 patio.

>> into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't
>> hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would
>> put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the
>> weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock
>
>They are wrong.

I tried to tell my friend that but he stopped listening to me years
ago. To give you an idea of his logic ...

1. Changed propane stove to electric. Got an oversized connection wire
so stove heats up faster because more electrons move through the
larger wire. Now his wife can't pre-heat because it ruins the food.

2. Wanted a larger fridge. Told him he'd have to remove a cabinet or
move fridge to a different location. Not enough space between
cabinets, stove and wall and it needs circulation. He shoved it in and
the new fridge has a crease down both sides from cabinet and wall.
Absolustely no space except what might be behind it and about an inch
above it. He can't move the fridge w/o more damage.

3. Only kitchen window is rotting out from the bottom up. Why? Well ir
may be due to it being over sink but it's probably more likely that
it's because they splash everywhere, water flowers directly on the
window from the sprayer and empty/refill their 125 turtle tank from
that sink.

4. I refer to my friend as Tim Taylor. Why? Well one day he wanted to
fix a wall switch/outlet but couldn't get it out, so he took his
sawsall and cut through the wall. Yes, before looking. Yes, he cut
through a power line. Yes, his wife, who was drying her hair, freaked
out. Yes, this man needs a supervision.

>> and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the
>> world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.
>
>As you say it's BS
>Electric Comet

His cabinets are on the cheap side but not that cheap. He got lied to
but will never admit it.

He bought vinyl flooring from tiny dealer who never removed old
flooring nails or fixed other flooring problems before laying new
vinyl. Now his bedroom and bathroom floors are full of little bumps,
sags and dips from the nails, etc. He called to complain two weeks
later and (ready for it?), the business was gone. Empty. Vamoosed.

`Casper

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 2:33:30 PM UTC-5, Casper wrote:
> >I'm sorry - gotta call BS on this. Twisted 90 degrees or more? Exagera=
tion=20
> >to prove a point is one thing, but that's one motengator exageration.
> >Mike Marlow
>=20
> I have absolutely no reason to lie. Soon as the snow clears off his
> deck I will be happy to go over and get you a photo.
>=20

I'm sure that there are a number of us who would be interested in seeing a =
picture of "most of the main support beams ... twisted 90 degress (sic) or =
more."

We've all seen twisted wood, but I'll wager that not many of us have seen w=
ood that has been used to build a deck that has twisted 90 degrees or more.=
A 90 degree twist in single support beam on a given deck would interesting=
to see. I'm having a hard time picturing what a 90 degree twist in "most o=
f the main support beams" of a deck would look like. I'm having a harder ti=
me picturing how the deck is still standing, especially under a snow load.

I'm *really* waiting for spring now!

>> Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
>> pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
>> would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
>> especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?
>
>Light weight concrete might work. Can be as low as $4/sq.ft.
>Electric Comet

I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking
into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't
hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would
put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the
weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock
and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the
world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.

>I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
>have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it. You're
>talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
>The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up the
>seem and cause a lip.

Sounds like you are assuming 4ft x 8ft. I have no intention of laying
out full sheets. I would either cut down into planks or squares.

>One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
>ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

Wood floors can do that too if they are installed correctly. I have
seen parquet floors and regular hardwood done badly.

>As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
>will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
>in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
>durable that stuff is.
>-MIKE-

A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.

Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I have
already picked out but locally there is nothing under $5sq/ft+fees.
Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I don't want.

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 6:32:49 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
> "Casper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> > > We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80
> > > per sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not
> > > recall.
> > > dadiOH
> >
> > Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
> > things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
> > you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!
>
> This is the electronic age...there are a ton of online sellers and they
> sell samples too.
>
> There are also chains - such as http://www.floorsanddecor.com

http://www.floorsanddecor.com

"This domain may be for sale. Buy this Domain"

Perhaps you meant...

http://www.flooranddecor.com (no "s")

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 22:29:10 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2/13/2015 4:23 PM, Casper wrote:
>
>>
>>> As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
>>> will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
>>> in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
>>> durable that stuff is.
>>> -MIKE-
>>
>> A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
>> installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
>> him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
>> His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.
>
>Mike is talking about pre-finished wood, not laminate. I have some
>engineered wood in a heavily traveled family room (most used entrance)
>and it shows no wear in 10 years.
>
>Some laminate is good, others are crap. You can't expect much from the
>stuff on sale for 99 cents a foot.
Most laminate that costs less than quality hardwood is verging on
junk. Good pre-finished hardwood has a UV cured urethane finish
heavily charged with aluminum oxide. The stuff wears like diamond.
It is generally applied with a pad in VERY thin layers,UV cured
between applications in a dust free finishing line.
Most laminate is made in a hell-hole in China where the wind blows all
kinds of crap through, and it's made of who-knows-what, pressed into a
quasi-board and finished with a photo-representation of wood
impregnated with melamine resin.

On 2/20/2015 2:25 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
>> > ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
>> > surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
>> > warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
>> > in place.
>>
>> Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have never
>> seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be sumptin'
>> in the Houstin air...
>
> Moisture maybe? A fellow bought the place next door (10 acres.central
> Florida) and hired a fence around the perimeter. Post & rail PT. The
> 3/4" rails didn't break the screws but they did pull put of them. I was
> always chucking his boards back over the fence.

Absolutely a moisture situation. Dries out on top, breaks deck screws,
and raises 3~4 inches. Running the yard sprinkler on the surface helps
to straighten the boards back to normal.




>
> He sold, new guy rebuilt the fence; or, the rail part at least. Also
> used an "X" between rails. No idea how he fastened them but they have
> been good for the last couple of years.
>
> I'd like to see the 90 degree twist too. NOT saying it doesn't exist,
> just curious.
>

On 2/18/2015 8:51 PM, Casper wrote:
> More unusual flooring...
> http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment
>

I'm going to start saving the caps so I can do both bathrooms. My wife
is going to be so happy when I surprise her with ut.

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> On 2/13/15 12:25 PM, Casper wrote:
>> Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
>> http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-remodeling-all-projects/advice-
for-
>> homeowners-looking-to-remodel/plywood-flooring-attractive-
inexpensive-
>> option/2100/
>>
>> I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other
>> flooring.

> I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
> have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it.
> You're talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
> The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up
> the seem and cause a lip.

I would agree with this. With "normal" tiles you have a grout
line which hides small irregularities, with these tiles you don't.

> One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
> ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

Don't really agree with this, if you're talking glue-down. It
depends on the quality of the glue and the thickness of the
planks, but they have a tendency to come unstuck on the dips.
Nailing or stapling to an underlayment might be OK with dips
(altho I doubt it would be much different).

Incidently, to dadiOH's point, the top layer on engineered
flooring can be quite thick, altho you pay for that.

> As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own
> that will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can
> put on in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed
> at how durable that stuff is.

Yeah, whatever they use is far harder than the poly you get
in gallon cans at the borg. Counter point to that is, if the
floor does get dinged or scratched, it's not simple to sand
and revarnish like you can with a plain plank floor.

John

Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99
> sq/ft.
> It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.

Well, I'm glad your satisfied, but...

Bruce is extremely low quality and badly lacking in durability.
At $2.99 sq, I'd say it's substantially overpriced.

You can probably find Anderson for not much more (altho you
might have to order it shipped, which adds to the cost).
Anderson is a much higher quality product.

Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
more if you go to a flooring dealer.

(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
know this...)

John

Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
[email protected]:

> My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
> with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
> negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?

I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)

Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
delaminating.

Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.

John

[email protected] wrote in news:umfvdallijfhnepvi04me54slqijranofm@
4ax.com:

> If you buy the same glue at Home Dspot, Lowes, or your local
> "flooring store" it will be the same quality. Sometimes the flooring
> store has better stuff available, but that is also true of places like
> Lowes and Home Despot.

No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
and it will be the lowest cost one.

The flooring store likely will give you a choice, and if they
don't their one brand will be a better quality one.

John

[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Delaminating? How does wood delaminate? It's not laminated in the
> first place.

We're talking about engineered wood flooring here. That's
a kind of plywood. Plywood delaminates when it's not
made well.

John

[email protected] wrote in news:s410eadhdnkln3ufspcv8aqn24754afsnn@
4ax.com:

> On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:13:06 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
>>floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
>>and it will be the lowest cost one.

> Lowes carries Bostik , Bruce, Tecsun, Mohawk, and USFloor. 3 1/2 or 4
> gallon containers $160, $89, $190, $220, and $192 US prices
> repectively.

Are you looking on the website or in the store? My store
carries Bruce. That's the only hardwood flooring adhesive
they actually stock.

Now, they have a ton of choices on the website - but if
you're going to special order it, you might as well go to
a flooring store anyway.

John

[email protected] wrote in news:1392ea5m8ocne2gjprgv8c7d6gtd9nkoc9@
4ax.com:

> My stores, locally, don't stock the hardwood either, so if you are
> going to order the wood, you may as well order the adhesive as well.

Well, that was sort of my point.

> ANd if youy are ordering it, you may as well order the stuff
> recommended by the manufacturer. No??

Good advice, I'd agree.

> If Bruce Hardwood says use Bruce
> adhesive - use it.

Well, I wouldn't dispute that either. I just wouldn't use Bruce
period - as noted above, my experience is that it's a low quality
product, and you can get better quality for a similar price from
other manufacturers.

John

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
>> ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
>> surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
>> warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
>> in place.
>
> Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have
> never seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be
> sumptin' in the Houstin air...

I had one (just one) do that on my deck. Pain to fix, too;
I wanted to cut across it a ways back from the bend, but I
didn't want to remove the adjacent planks to allow using a
circular saw. Plus unscrewing deck screws is a 50/50
proposition at best (often it's simpler just get a big
prybar and break them).

John

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Good to see you posting here lately John. Things were quite dead over
> at the Lake until the past week or so.

Yeah, during my temporary retirement last year I was trying
to do a bit more woodworking, and decided after a several
year break to get back to the wreck. Nice that this group
is still at least a little active.

John

Casper <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I think the end cut boards look interesting but I don't know about it
> as flooring. A restaurant near us has some on walls and it looks neat.
> I'm certain it's easier to clean on the wall than floor but I'd rather
> not be the one trying to dust.

This one?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093418/

That's as industrial a look as you can get. Back when I was
doing steam locomotives, that's what we had for a floor in
the shop - 2-bys, about 4" long, set on end (traditionally
it would be 4x4 or 6x6, but we got a whole bunch of scrap
2x so used what we had).

The idea there is when you drop some heavy part (there are
no light parts on a steam locomotive) it just dents the
floor, instead of breaking.

Of course, cleaning was just an occasional pass with the
push-broom. Dust wasn't high on our list of concerns.

John

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 12:25:25 PM UTC-6, Casper wrote:
> My hunch is the texture
> of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.
>=20

I'm supposing this home is on pillars, not a slab.

I might suspect the OSB has started to expand because of moisture, over tim=
e. I suspect you'd need to pull up the OSB, if its damaged that way, or i=
n any way. It may no longer be a proper subflooring, anymore. Do you kno=
w if there is other subflooring, under the OSB, and if it's in good shape?

A moisture barrier is a consideration, somewhere in the mix. Is there pres=
ently one and is it still in good shape.=20

I'm not familiar with plywood flooring, but I suppose you'd have to glue it=
down, maybe toe-nailed on the edges. You'd need a good subfloor to glue =
it to.

Other than these thoughts, I have no info/knowledge on the ply flooring an=
d for what type of home it's best recommended for, i.e., pillared or slab, =
if applicable.

Sonny

>maybe he's learning as he goes

He has no desire to listen to anyone. His wife hates it and the
damaged caused to their home by not getting good advice.

>people always ditching their old kitchen cabinets on cragslist
>some have nice wood under years of paint

They would never get them off craiglist. I was told, and I quote, they
don't want someone else's problems.

Rather than to listen to anyone who has built, or had professionals
build a deck, he went with a inexperienced contracter and demanded he
use the lumber and matierals he chose and his design. He built a
second story deck to support a large hot tub. Now he is afraid to put
anything on it as most of the main support beams have all twisted 90
degress or more and are pulling the bolts out all over. The contractor
even warned him.

>you're lucky since you can learn from his mistakes
>Electric Comet

Lucky? My father taught me better. I don't watch this guy do things
because it is dangerous. No lie. Cutting power lines, ruining
chainsaws and damaging your house when the tree falls on it, flooding
your kitchen and basement, and more, all because you won't listen.

I stopped offering advice years ago. He's a grown man.

>I'd really love to see this. It's so extreme that one almost has to see a
>picture to believe it's possible.

I asked him to take a picture last night but he wouldn't do it. Just
as well because even besides the cold and snow, it gets dark early
still and his floods don't point in the right direction enough.

>> We just got another 4-6 inches of snow and the temp plumeted to -15.
>> In this weather I'm not going out unless it is needful.

>Can't blame you for that - we're at about the same. No need for going
>outside unless one must.

Wouldn't you know it was -12 last night. More snow predicted too.

>Ya just have to wonder what in the hell he could have bought to have twisted
>that much. I mean - that just isn't normal even under the worst of
>circumstances.
> Mike Marlow

He said pressure treated, large beams, 6x6 and 8x8, brought in along
with lumber to build his garage. He wanted larger and more beams to
support the future tub. Contractor built what he asked for and said it
was more than any tub would need.

Funny part? Now he says he doesn't want the tub because his
mother-in-law will be over all the time.

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:38:28 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/19/2015 3:48 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> > Casper wrote:
> >>> I'm sorry - gotta call BS on this. Twisted 90 degrees or more?
> >>> Exageration to prove a point is one thing, but that's one motengator
> >>> exageration.
> >>> Mike Marlow
> >>
> >> I have absolutely no reason to lie. Soon as the snow clears off his
> >> deck I will be happy to go over and get you a photo.
> >
> > I'd really love to see this. It's so extreme that one almost has to se=
e a
> > picture to believe it's possible.
> >
> >>
> >> We just got another 4-6 inches of snow and the temp plumeted to -15.
> >> In this weather I'm not going out unless it is needful.
> >
> > Can't blame you for that - we're at about the same. No need for going
> > outside unless one must.
> >
> >> He went hot tub shopping that summer (deck built in April), then
> >> changed his mind. I asked him if he gave up on tub and he showed me
> >> the twisted beams and gaps between bolts and house. He said he wasn't
> >> comfortable with adding the weight until that was resolved. As far as
> >> I know, it was not altered in any way, yet.
> >
> > Ya just have to wonder what in the hell he could have bought to have tw=
isted
> > that much. I mean - that just isn't normal even under the worst of
> > circumstances.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I really don't want to get off topic but it seems almost impossible
> >> when discussions start here. At any rate, I am still researching
> >> flooring options. I don't make decisions quickly or lightly unless
> >> they need be. I recently saw a floor done with epoxy (?) and beer
> >> caps. Not my cup of tea but it looked pretty good. I have no idea how
> >> that will hold up in a bathroom but I bet it won't be easy to remove.
> >
> > I saw that too. Not my cup of tea but to each, his own I guess.
> >
> While a 90 degree twist might seem exaggerated, there is not much=20
> telling what the support beam is. I have seen construction lumber bow=20
> and twist to the extent that I would be embarrassed to sell it. It=20
> looked like a strip of fried bacon.
>=20
> I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to ease=
=20
> entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the surface boards=
=20
> 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have warped so severely that=
=20
> they have broken the Deck screws holding them in place.
> I could imagine a support beam possibly doing the same.

If they warped "90 degrees or more" that would present quite a tripping haz=
ard. ;-)

My first major build after buying my house was a 10'x 14' deck off of the f=
amily room. This deck is 6' off of the ground with a set of stairs for acce=
ss to the back yard.

Not ever having dealt with PT wood before, I was warned by numerous people =
about the twisting and the warping that I should expect. It was even sugges=
ted that I shouldn't build the railing in the manner I wanted to because it=
would be hard to replace the balusters once they start twisting and bendin=
g. (I did it anyway)

It's 30+ years later and I have only replaced two small sections of deckin=
g because one board split and another rotted out. The rotted board had a kn=
ot that fell out, allowing moisture to get into the interior of the board.

I recall having to return a few boards because they warped before I even in=
stalled them, but I have not had any twisting or warping issues with any ot=
her deck boards, balusters, railings, beams, posts, etc. Maybe I was just l=
ucky, maybe I was good enough to choose the best boards. In any case, 30+ y=
ears later and I still love that deck.

The previous owners lived in the house for 30 years and raised 4 kids. They=
never had direct access to the back yard, even though the RO for a patio d=
oor was basically already there via side-by-side double hung windows in the=
family room. The first time I was in the house I looked out that window at=
the backyard 6 feet below and immediately said "This house needs a deck." =
I started building it within a month of moving in.

Casper <[email protected]> was heard to mutter:

>More unusual flooring...
>http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment

And more, if you are curious...
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866552490/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093428/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093425/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093423/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093412/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093413/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093418/

On 2/13/2015 12:25 PM, Casper wrote:
> Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
> http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-remodeling-all-projects/advice-for-homeowners-looking-to-remodel/plywood-flooring-attractive-inexpensive-option/2100/
>
> I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring.
> Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq
> ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl
> and 10% vinyl squares.
>
> Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty
> year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two
> small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are
> press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture
> of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.
>
> I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
> treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
> patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
> or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).
>
> Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
> there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or
> cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
> (price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
> quality of those.
>
> Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
> pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
> would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
> especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?
>
> `Casper
>

I would look at what the definition of plywood is. There is
"Engineered" hard wood flooring that is actually plywood and then there
is more common hardwood veneered plywood that is typically used for
furniture. I would not put much trust in the later being a good
material for flooring although the link you provided has the appearance
of the common furniture grade plywood. Just because a designer uses it
does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that the material choice
is a good one. On a side note my wife and I visited a model home in a
new neighborhood. The floors were sand stone, very attractive but tons
of grout and you could already see wear paths in the stone from traffic.
I would guesstimate that the floor had to be replaced with in a year
or two. I would highly suspect that a common plywood floor might have a
similar life expectancy.

Ok, last one. I really like this one because it's different and fun. I
am certain some won't agree. Notice the name on the link.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866556915/

On 2/13/2015 4:23 PM, Casper wrote:

>
>> As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
>> will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
>> in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
>> durable that stuff is.
>> -MIKE-
>
> A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
> installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
> him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
> His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.

Mike is talking about pre-finished wood, not laminate. I have some
engineered wood in a heavily traveled family room (most used entrance)
and it shows no wear in 10 years.

Some laminate is good, others are crap. You can't expect much from the
stuff on sale for 99 cents a foot.

>As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood CAN
>look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do it for
>several reasons:
>
>1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on the
>order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.

Point taken but dings are better than tears, etc on the vinyl and
carpet. I am certain you have seen how much crap gets under carpet and
I don't care what vaccum anyone uses, it don't come up period.

>2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I
>could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them,
>glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At least
>one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to do it well
>and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat sub-floor. Of course,
>you would need that for most anything.

Some people seem to like the screw look. I don't, but I did see a ones
that do not and I suspect they are glued. My subfloor is flat, that's
not an issue. The entire floor may pitch a tiny bit, but no buckling
or warping, etc.

>I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't
>break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00 sq.ft. -
>you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to install, just lay
>one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some would need
>crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be ripped. No finishing
>needed and it would be far more durable than hardwood ply; it would also
>be much less costly and easier to do.

Again, not around here except for Home Despot and Lowes and I don't
want that chit. I've looked and looked around here and cheapest I
could find was $2.49sq/ft but that had to be special ordered, which
was an extra fee and shipping and no returns.

>If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put about
>1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed - including
>7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had not done the tear
>out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years but it should look decent
>after ten with reasonable care.

Hate carpet. No vaccum in the world ever gets out the dirt. And
truthfully stains never come out either.

>We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80 per
>sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not recall.
>dadiOH

Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

>I said "most." The custom parquet in the first pintrest link and the
>end-grain "tiles" are very cool and look well crafted. I think there
>was one other of those "barn wood" type plank floors that looked
>finished, and like it had been completed someone who didn't buy his
>tools last weekend.
>Un-sanded wood and freakin finish screws! Are you kidding me? Many
>looked like they barely had a top coat on them. Big, uneven seams
>between most of the boards.

Personally I don't find most barnwood style floors appealing but it
does depend on the look. I lean more toward modern and industrial.

>So are you saying you don't like the "look" of stone or you just don't
>like laminate because it's fake? Because one of those pics is a
>laminate that "looks" like your first set of pics, ugly wood planks put
>down on the floor. I'm not being a smart ass, I'm really asking.

I like stone. It's just I usually see more of it I like on the outside
of a house than inside on the floor.

That multi-colored laminate planking does look kinda ugly. It would
probably be good for a bar, restaurant or game hall doing a theme.

>You can have originality AND quality. The first pics you posted reflect
>a trend that can probably be blamed on all the home and garden
>television shows in which artistic interior decorators who look good on
>camera but have as much experience and craftsmanship under their belt as
>the 17 year old fry cook at the local Mickey-Dees go into a home with
>ideas that certainly qualify as "original" but severely lack any
>functionality and longevity, and remodel it.

I agree and blame H&G all the time. I hate shopping for furniture for
that very reason. I loathe sales people who stand there and try to
tell me why I should love a particular piece.

When are current couch was delivered, I stopped the delivery people
from bringing in more pieces because the color was wrong. We chose a
light brown/tan. What arrived was off white. The men said call the
store. So I did. Get this, the sales woman said to close the window
shades as I was probably getting too much light in and not seeing it
right. WTH? I had her on speaker phone and the three guys delivering
were shaking their heads and trying not to laugh. I made them take all
the wrong pieces back. I won't be shopping there ever again.

I like real wood, not particle board. I admit I do have an
entertainment center made partially from some manmade stuff which was
painted and not properly coated. It scratches easily. Worse, they make
them all in white then paint over for your preferred color. We're not
watching TV much anymore so ultimately we may get rid of it and put
the LCD on the wall for movies.

>There seems to be this pervasive ideology in interior design that
>because you're using old, rustic, oft-recycled materials which are rough
>and imperfect in appearance that the installation of those materials can
>also be rough and imperfect. There's a reason that $h!t started out of
>a barn you numbskulls. :-)

LOL. True. I appreciate the rustic look, it's just not my style. I do
however try to recycle when possible. I think we waste too much.

>I've seen recycled barn wood done properly, with excellence in esthetics
>AND craftsmanship, combining durability and functionality. And I've
>seen stuff like in most of those first pics you posted.

I think the end cut boards look interesting but I don't know about it
as flooring. A restaurant near us has some on walls and it looks neat.
I'm certain it's easier to clean on the wall than floor but I'd rather
not be the one trying to dust.

>The big trend now is to put barn wood up on a wall for wainscoting or
>all the way up on say, a fireplace wall. They just put it up with
>drywall screws. I mean, if you're going to try to make your living room
>look like a stable, at least use period fasteners.

Agreed.

>I totally agree. Like my grandfather used to say, "If we all liked the
>same things, everyone would be chasin' after your grandma."

LOL! Your grandfather sounds like a wise man.

>.. it had better be well made and installed with skill and experience
>to insure it functions properly and for a long time.

I hate having to redo things to fix a bad job.

>I'm sorry - gotta call BS on this. Twisted 90 degrees or more? Exageration
>to prove a point is one thing, but that's one motengator exageration.
>Mike Marlow

I have absolutely no reason to lie. Soon as the snow clears off his
deck I will be happy to go over and get you a photo.

We just got another 4-6 inches of snow and the temp plumeted to -15.
In this weather I'm not going out unless it is needful.

Only once has he invited us over to BBQ on his deck the year he built
it which is three years ago. He had the two built at same time.

He went hot tub shopping that summer (deck built in April), then
changed his mind. I asked him if he gave up on tub and he showed me
the twisted beams and gaps between bolts and house. He said he wasn't
comfortable with adding the weight until that was resolved. As far as
I know, it was not altered in any way, yet.

You can see his custom garage he had built here:
https://goo.gl/maps/0x7l1

Low deck at front door of the house goes around to the garage side
door. Rear of the house is one story lower than the front. Sliding
glass doors in kitchen and back door from the utility room were
boarded up with pallets for 10 years until rear deck built. Garage
easily holds eight cars w/o lifts, which he plans to install. Camper
on side of garage is 28 feet minus the fork (per him). House is 2k sq
ft per level, full basement. That should give you an idea of scale.

I really don't want to get off topic but it seems almost impossible
when discussions start here. At any rate, I am still researching
flooring options. I don't make decisions quickly or lightly unless
they need be. I recently saw a floor done with epoxy (?) and beer
caps. Not my cup of tea but it looked pretty good. I have no idea how
that will hold up in a bathroom but I bet it won't be easy to remove.

On 2/13/15 12:25 PM, Casper wrote:
> Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
> http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-remodeling-all-projects/advice-for-homeowners-looking-to-remodel/plywood-flooring-attractive-inexpensive-option/2100/
>
>
>
I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other
> flooring. Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring
> for 1400 sq ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20%
> sheet vinyl and 10% vinyl squares.
>
> Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams.
> Twenty year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom
> and two small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl
> tiles are press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is
> the texture of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.
>
> I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
> treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
> patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
> or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).
>
> Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
> there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor,
> or cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
> (price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
> quality of those.
>
> Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
> pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I
> really would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost
> down, especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?
>
> `Casper
>

I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it. You're
talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up the
seem and cause a lip.

One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
durable that stuff is.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Casper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
> http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-remodeling-all-projects/advice-for-homeowners-looking-to-remodel/plywood-flooring-attractive-inexpensive-option/2100/
>
> I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring.
> Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq
> ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl
> and 10% vinyl squares.
>
> Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty
> year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two
> small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are
> press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture
> of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.
>
> I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
> treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
> patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
> or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).
>
> Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
> there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or
> cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
> (price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
> quality of those.
>
> Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
> pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
> would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
> especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood CAN
look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do it for
several reasons:

1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on the
order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.

2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I
could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them,
glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At least
one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to do it well
and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat sub-floor. Of course,
you would need that for most anything.

I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't
break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00 sq.ft. -
you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to install, just lay
one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some would need
crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be ripped. No finishing
needed and it would be far more durable than hardwood ply; it would also
be much less costly and easier to do.

If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put about
1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed - including
7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had not done the tear
out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years but it should look decent
after ten with reasonable care.

We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80 per
sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not recall.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:25:19 -0500
Casper <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
> pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
> would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
> especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

Light weight concrete might work. Can be as low as $4/sq.ft.

dadiOH wrote:

>
> As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood
> CAN look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do
> it for several reasons:
>
> 1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on
> the order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.

Agreed. As well - taste comes into play. Though the floors look better
than I expected them to, they just didn't work for me, but tomato/tomato...

>
> 2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I
> could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them,
> glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At
> least one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to
> do it well and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat
> sub-floor. Of course, you would need that for most anything.
>

I'm not sure the subfloor issue would be any greater with this approach than
with any other. Any flooring is going to have its own susuptibility to the
irregularities of the subfloor. Like you though, I'm not big on the idea of
the exposed screw heads. Tomato/tomato...


> I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't
> break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00
> sq.ft. - you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to
> install, just lay one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some
> would need crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be
> ripped. No finishing needed and it would be far more durable than
> hardwood ply; it would also be much less costly and easier to do.

I agree. I've laid some of these and they have ranged from $3-$4 per sq ft
on the high end, to somewhere around $1 per sq ft on the low end. The low
end came from Mr. Seconds (a local(?) over-stock retailer), that is exactly
the same product sold at the more typical retail outlets. Not a defective
product - cheap because it was some kind of inventory over-run.



--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Casper wrote:
>> I'm supposing this home is on pillars, not a slab.
>
> Neither. Manufacture (mobile) home.
>
>> I might suspect the OSB has started to expand because of moisture,
>> over time. I suspect you'd need to pull up the OSB, if its damaged
>> that way, or in any way. It may no longer be a proper subflooring,
>> anymore. Do you know if there is other subflooring, under the OSB,
>> and if it's in good shape?
>
> OSB (only think I can see) looks fine except a bit dirty where some of
> the peel-n-stick tiles have moved out of alignment.
>

That would not be surprising. Properly put down, and not subject to extreme
moisture, OSB can be very stable.


>> A moisture barrier is a consideration, somewhere in the mix. Is
>> there presently one and is it still in good shape.
>
> Been 20 years and OSB and floor looks solid and dry. We've got a ton
> of insulation and very think barrier underneath the eniter home.
>

Then, I would not worry any further about this consideration. Sonny raised
some good thoughts, but it seems you don't need to think about them any
further.


>> I'm not familiar with plywood flooring, but I suppose you'd have to
>> glue it down, maybe toe-nailed on the edges. You'd need a good
>> subfloor to glue it to.
>
> Seems some like the nails but I don't particularly. I see many being
> glued down. If you Google plywood flooring, you'll see ton and a
> number of them are quite professional looking.
>

Tomato/tomato - go with what you like. Remember this - once you glue that
plywood down...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Casper wrote:

>
> Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I have
> already picked out but locally there is nothing under $5sq/ft+fees.
> Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I don't want.

I understand the budget issue. I have installed laminate flooring that cost
the owner at or under $1 per square foot. Do some google stuff to look for
it, but there are over-stock stores (around here they are Mr. Seconds
stores) that seel the exact same thing as HD or Lowes or even the more
"upscale..." retail outlets - at a fraction of the price. Same quality,
same product. Do be careful - there is a real low end crap product out
there, so don't forget to examine the actual product.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Casper wrote:

>
> Again, not around here except for Home Despot and Lowes and I don't
> want that chit. I've looked and looked around here and cheapest I
> could find was $2.49sq/ft but that had to be special ordered, which
> was an extra fee and shipping and no returns.
>

Not so fast! The flooring products at HD and Lowes is pretty good stuff.
Don't let yourself be fooled into believing it is "chit". My brother-in-law
sells the highest end, most expensive laminate flooring to retailers. We
talk about the difference between his product and the comodity product at HD
or Lowes. He keeps telling me about the way the planks snap together -
which is exactly the same way the big box store planks snap together. Don't
let sales guys steer you wrong. Look into this stuff and you will find
there is a lot less difference from one product to another.


>> If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put
>> about 1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed
>> - including 7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had
>> not done the tear out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years
>> but it should look decent after ten with reasonable care.
>
> Hate carpet. No vaccum in the world ever gets out the dirt. And
> truthfully stains never come out either.

Oh shit - you've obviously never owned a Rainbow! They will make a '57
Chevy look brand new...


>
> Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
> things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
> you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

Google! Amazon! Or... send me the appropriate sum of cold hard cash, and
I'll take care of getting to your front door...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/13/15 3:23 PM, Casper wrote:
>> I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor
>> would have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider
>> it. You're talking four foot seems in both directions for every
>> "tile." The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to
>> mess up the seem and cause a lip.
>
> Sounds like you are assuming 4ft x 8ft. I have no intention of
> laying out full sheets. I would either cut down into planks or
> squares.
>

I was assuming 4x4 like in the link you posted. If you're doing
planks... even more reason to go with engineered. The link also showed
cabinet grade plywood which is going to be pretty stiff. A 3-8" wide
board can rise and fall with dips in the floor and keep tight seems. A
4x4' stiff panel cannot.


>> One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its
>> ability ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.
>
> Wood floors can do that too if they are installed correctly. I have
> seen parquet floors and regular hardwood done badly.
>
>> As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own
>> that will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they
>> can put on in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always
>> amazed at how durable that stuff is. -MIKE-
>
> A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
> installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I
> told him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't
> listen. His family makes too much of a watery mess for that
> flooring.
>
> Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I
> have already picked out but locally there is nothing under
> $5sq/ft+fees. Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I
> don't want.
>

I'm not talking about the shitty laminate that is a picture of wood
stuck to 3/8" of cardboard. I'm talking about engineered which is
essentially the same plywood you're thinking of using, but with
manageable widths that are T&G milled, with a very thick top ply and an
extremely durable finish applied at the factory.

Lumber liquidators has some very decent stuff for under $2.50sq.ft.
That would $80 per sheet of plywood. If can find good enough cabinet
grade plywood for that and put on a perfect and durable a finish like
they can at a factory for under that price, then more power to you.

With the engineered stuff, one person (you) could have your home done in
a few days.
Maybe less if you really kicked ass on it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Casper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> > We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80
> > per sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not
> > recall.
> > dadiOH
>
> Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
> things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
> you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

This is the electronic age...there are a ton of online sellers and they
sell samples too.

There are also chains - such as http://www.floorsanddecor.com that have
stores near to just about anyone and have a broad selection in a wide
price range. They aren't the cheapest but shipping isn't extra (assuming
store pickup).

In my case, I bought online from a Tampa retailer. He then orders from
the distributor who shipped to me. Retailer makes a bit but much less
than if I had walked into his store.

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I don't much care for laminate,
generally dislike things that try to look like something they are not, but
I don't think it is ugly.

I share your prejudice against carpet. That's why my house has 3500+
sq.ft of Saltillo tile :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"DerbyDad03" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> > There are also chains - such as http://www.floorsanddecor.com
>
> http://www.floorsanddecor.com
>
> "This domain may be for sale. Buy this Domain"
>
> Perhaps you meant...
>
> http://www.flooranddecor.com (no "s")

Yeah, thanks.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

an inexpensive underlayment over the entire floor is a route to take?
john

"Casper" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-remodeling-all-projects/advice-for-homeowners-looking-to-remodel/plywood-flooring-attractive-inexpensive-option/2100/

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring.
Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq
ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl
and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty
year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two
small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are
press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture
of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or
cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
(price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

`Casper

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500
Casper <[email protected]> wrote:

> I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking

When you say "it", you mean the current floor right?

Lightweight concrete can be up to 80% lighter than conventional. But
you have to talk to competent people. It's amazing what they can do
to the concrete surface. Stamping, coloring and other tricks.
But that means more $$. Ask someone that knows their stuff with
concrete

> into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't
> hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would
> put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the
> weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock

They are wrong.

> and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the
> world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.

As you say it's BS

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:24:06 -0500
Casper <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> You know, the funny part was they really never gave me a clear answer
> on floor and or cabinets. The words floor and cabinets seemed to be
> interchangeable during that discussion.

they just want your money so will say what they think you want to hear
lightweight concrete's amazing so can't hurt to ask about it


> I agree. My mother wanted to put is a small patio with pavers but the
> locals were charging $2200+ for a 10x10 patio, and additional to
> remove and rebuild her single doorstep. I told her screw that and go
> with stamped concrete. Once I explained it to her, we got a local guy,
> she picked a slate pattern and now loves her $1200 patio.

and it'll last long enough

> out. Yes, this man needs a supervision.

maybe he's learning as he goes


>
> His cabinets are on the cheap side but not that cheap. He got lied to
> but will never admit it.

people always ditching their old kitchen cabinets on cragslist
some have nice wood under years of paint

> He bought vinyl flooring from tiny dealer who never removed old
> flooring nails or fixed other flooring problems before laying new
> vinyl. Now his bedroom and bathroom floors are full of little bumps,
> sags and dips from the nails, etc. He called to complain two weeks
> later and (ready for it?), the business was gone. Empty. Vamoosed.

you're lucky since you can learn from his mistakes

Casper wrote:

>
> Rather than to listen to anyone who has built, or had professionals
> build a deck, he went with a inexperienced contracter and demanded he
> use the lumber and matierals he chose and his design. He built a
> second story deck to support a large hot tub. Now he is afraid to put
> anything on it as most of the main support beams have all twisted 90
> degress or more and are pulling the bolts out all over. The contractor
> even warned him.

I'm sorry - gotta call BS on this. Twisted 90 degrees or more? Exageration
to prove a point is one thing, but that's one motengator exageration.



--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Casper wrote:
>> I'm sorry - gotta call BS on this. Twisted 90 degrees or more?
>> Exageration to prove a point is one thing, but that's one motengator
>> exageration.
>> Mike Marlow
>
> I have absolutely no reason to lie. Soon as the snow clears off his
> deck I will be happy to go over and get you a photo.

I'd really love to see this. It's so extreme that one almost has to see a
picture to believe it's possible.

>
> We just got another 4-6 inches of snow and the temp plumeted to -15.
> In this weather I'm not going out unless it is needful.

Can't blame you for that - we're at about the same. No need for going
outside unless one must.

> He went hot tub shopping that summer (deck built in April), then
> changed his mind. I asked him if he gave up on tub and he showed me
> the twisted beams and gaps between bolts and house. He said he wasn't
> comfortable with adding the weight until that was resolved. As far as
> I know, it was not altered in any way, yet.

Ya just have to wonder what in the hell he could have bought to have twisted
that much. I mean - that just isn't normal even under the worst of
circumstances.


>
> I really don't want to get off topic but it seems almost impossible
> when discussions start here. At any rate, I am still researching
> flooring options. I don't make decisions quickly or lightly unless
> they need be. I recently saw a floor done with epoxy (?) and beer
> caps. Not my cup of tea but it looked pretty good. I have no idea how
> that will hold up in a bathroom but I bet it won't be easy to remove.

I saw that too. Not my cup of tea but to each, his own I guess.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/19/15 4:25 PM, Casper wrote:
> Casper <[email protected]> was heard to mutter:
>
>> More unusual flooring...
>> http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment
>
> And more, if you are curious...
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866552490/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093428/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093425/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093423/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093412/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093413/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093418/
>

To be honest, most of those look like shit.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 2/18/2015 8:51 PM, Casper wrote:
> > More unusual flooring...
> > http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment
> >
>
> I'm going to start saving the caps so I can do both bathrooms. My wife
> is going to be so happy when I surprise her with ut.

If you soak off he lablels you could paper the room too :)


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:10:54 -0500
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:

> If you soak off he lablels you could paper the room too :)

now the labels are off get a glass cutter and make a wainscoat with
the bottle bottoms and epoxy

On 2/20/15 10:02 AM, Casper wrote:
>>> More unusual flooring...
>>> http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866552490/
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093428/
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093425/
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093423/
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093412/
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093413/
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093418/
>
>> To be honest, most of those look like shit. -MIKE-
>
> You really think so? Taste is a personal thing. I have seen two
> floors very similar to a couple of those links. One is in a home and
> the owners love it. The other is in a business and everyone there
> thinks it looks cool and it has held up for several years already.
>

I said "most." The custom parquet in the first pintrest link and the
end-grain "tiles" are very cool and look well crafted. I think there
was one other of those "barn wood" type plank floors that looked
finished, and like it had been completed someone who didn't buy his
tools last weekend.
Un-sanded wood and freakin finish screws! Are you kidding me? Many
looked like they barely had a top coat on them. Big, uneven seams
between most of the boards.


> What do you think of these floors?
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/459507968204127270/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/475059460665098297/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/43487952626037346/ I certainly think
> those are boring and ugly.
>

So are you saying you don't like the "look" of stone or you just don't
like laminate because it's fake? Because one of those pics is a
laminate that "looks" like your first set of pics, ugly wood planks put
down on the floor. I'm not being a smart ass, I'm really asking.


> Apparently I'm not the only one in the world who prefers
> originality. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/524458319076036482/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/327848047845526342/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/270567890088052265/
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/204421270559972525/
>

You can have originality AND quality. The first pics you posted reflect
a trend that can probably be blamed on all the home and garden
television shows in which artistic interior decorators who look good on
camera but have as much experience and craftsmanship under their belt as
the 17 year old fry cook at the local Mickey-Dees go into a home with
ideas that certainly qualify as "original" but severely lack any
functionality and longevity, and remodel it.

There seems to be this pervasive ideology in interior design that
because you're using old, rustic, oft-recycled materials which are rough
and imperfect in appearance that the installation of those materials can
also be rough and imperfect. There's a reason that $h!t started out of
a barn you numbskulls. :-)

I've seen recycled barn wood done properly, with excellence in esthetics
AND craftsmanship, combining durability and functionality. And I've
seen stuff like in most of those first pics you posted.

The big trend now is to put barn wood up on a wall for wainscoting or
all the way up on say, a fireplace wall. They just put it up with
drywall screws. I mean, if you're going to try to make your living room
look like a stable, at least use period fasteners.


> As for tastes, tomayto tomahto. If I am going to live with
> something, flooring, furniture, art, etc., I am certainly picking
> what I like.
>

I totally agree. Like my grandfather used to say, "If we all liked the
same things, everyone would be chasin' after your grandma."

Also, if I am going to live with something, flooring, furniture, art,
etc., it had better be well made and installed with skill and experience
to insure it functions properly and for a long time.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:

>
> I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
> ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
> surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
> warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
> in place.

Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have never
seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be sumptin' in
the Houstin air...


> I could imagine a support beam possibly doing the same.

I just can't imagine a 90 degree plus twist though. I've seen green - fresh
cut timbers that don't move anywhere near that. There's something really
extreme about a 90 degree twist that just is not the norm or even easy to
believe.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/20/15 11:56 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch
>> to ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
>> surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
>> warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding
>> them in place.
>
> Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have
> never seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be
> sumptin' in the Houstin air...
>
>
>> I could imagine a support beam possibly doing the same.
>
> I just can't imagine a 90 degree plus twist though. I've seen green
> - fresh cut timbers that don't move anywhere near that. There's
> something really extreme about a 90 degree twist that just is not the
> norm or even easy to believe.
>

First house I built, there wasn't much competition for lumber suppliers.
I had a joist span that was to be 20' with a bearing wall somewhere in
between, I just didn't know where yet. So I ordered 20' 2x12s for the
span, knowing they would hold themselves up that far temporarily, until
I decided where to put the wall underneath. (This was before I-joists
and floor trusses were quasi-affordable like there are now.)

About a third of them were so twisted, they couldn't be bent back
straight again. I kid you not-- no exaggeration-- a couple were twisted
at least 45°. Yes, we sighted up a speed square against the ends. Now,
for sake of hyperbole and a better "fish tale," the story I told folks
for years was that you could look down a joist and see a cross-hairs at
the end. :-)

So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having seen
it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale and chalk
it up to hyperbole. :-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Leon wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
> > ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
> > surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
> > warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
> > in place.
>
> Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have never
> seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be sumptin'
> in the Houstin air...

Moisture maybe? A fellow bought the place next door (10 acres.central
Florida) and hired a fence around the perimeter. Post & rail PT. The
3/4" rails didn't break the screws but they did pull put of them. I was
always chucking his boards back over the fence.

He sold, new guy rebuilt the fence; or, the rail part at least. Also used
an "X" between rails. No idea how he fastened them but they have been
good for the last couple of years.

I'd like to see the 90 degree twist too. NOT saying it doesn't exist,
just curious.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

-MIKE- wrote:

> So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having
> seen it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale
> and chalk it up to hyperbole. :-)

That's why I called it a motingaror exageration. Sorta recognizing that.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/20/15 2:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having
>> seen it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale
>> and chalk it up to hyperbole. :-)
>
> That's why I called it a motingaror exageration. Sorta recognizing that.
>

You should know better to use such big words with a drummer.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/20/15 2:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having
>>> seen it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale
>>> and chalk it up to hyperbole. :-)
>>
>> That's why I called it a motingaror exageration. Sorta recognizing
>> that.
>
> You should know better to use such big words with a drummer.

Ugh - that was supposed to be motengator...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

John McCoy wrote:

>
> I had one (just one) do that on my deck. Pain to fix, too;
> I wanted to cut across it a ways back from the bend, but I
> didn't want to remove the adjacent planks to allow using a
> circular saw. Plus unscrewing deck screws is a 50/50
> proposition at best (often it's simpler just get a big
> prybar and break them).
>


Good to see you posting here lately John. Things were quite dead over at
the Lake until the past week or so.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/19/2015 3:48 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Casper wrote:
>>> I'm sorry - gotta call BS on this. Twisted 90 degrees or more?
>>> Exageration to prove a point is one thing, but that's one motengator
>>> exageration.
>>> Mike Marlow
>>
>> I have absolutely no reason to lie. Soon as the snow clears off his
>> deck I will be happy to go over and get you a photo.
>
> I'd really love to see this. It's so extreme that one almost has to see a
> picture to believe it's possible.
>
>>
>> We just got another 4-6 inches of snow and the temp plumeted to -15.
>> In this weather I'm not going out unless it is needful.
>
> Can't blame you for that - we're at about the same. No need for going
> outside unless one must.
>
>> He went hot tub shopping that summer (deck built in April), then
>> changed his mind. I asked him if he gave up on tub and he showed me
>> the twisted beams and gaps between bolts and house. He said he wasn't
>> comfortable with adding the weight until that was resolved. As far as
>> I know, it was not altered in any way, yet.
>
> Ya just have to wonder what in the hell he could have bought to have twisted
> that much. I mean - that just isn't normal even under the worst of
> circumstances.
>
>
>>
>> I really don't want to get off topic but it seems almost impossible
>> when discussions start here. At any rate, I am still researching
>> flooring options. I don't make decisions quickly or lightly unless
>> they need be. I recently saw a floor done with epoxy (?) and beer
>> caps. Not my cup of tea but it looked pretty good. I have no idea how
>> that will hold up in a bathroom but I bet it won't be easy to remove.
>
> I saw that too. Not my cup of tea but to each, his own I guess.
>
While a 90 degree twist might seem exaggerated, there is not much
telling what the support beam is. I have seen construction lumber bow
and twist to the extent that I would be embarrassed to sell it. It
looked like a strip of fried bacon.

I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to ease
entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the surface boards
3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have warped so severely that
they have broken the Deck screws holding them in place.
I could imagine a support beam possibly doing the same.

>I'm supposing this home is on pillars, not a slab.

Neither. Manufacture (mobile) home.

>I might suspect the OSB has started to expand because of moisture, over time. I suspect you'd need to pull up the OSB, if its damaged that way, or in any way. It may no longer be a proper subflooring, anymore. Do you know if there is other subflooring, under the OSB, and if it's in good shape?

OSB (only think I can see) looks fine except a bit dirty where some of
the peel-n-stick tiles have moved out of alignment.

>A moisture barrier is a consideration, somewhere in the mix. Is there presently one and is it still in good shape.

Been 20 years and OSB and floor looks solid and dry. We've got a ton
of insulation and very think barrier underneath the eniter home.

>I'm not familiar with plywood flooring, but I suppose you'd have to glue it down, maybe toe-nailed on the edges. You'd need a good subfloor to glue it to.

Seems some like the nails but I don't particularly. I see many being
glued down. If you Google plywood flooring, you'll see ton and a
number of them are quite professional looking.

>Other than these thoughts, I have no info/knowledge on the ply flooring and for what type of home it's best recommended for, i.e., pillared or slab, if applicable.
>Sonny

Thanks for the input.

I found another example of plywood flooring done DiY and they actually
give more information on how they did it.
http://www.centsationalgirl.com/2014/02/diy-plywood-plank-floors/

I like the driftwood, which makes the nails a bit less noticeable.

>Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
>flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
>product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
>is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
>more if you go to a flooring dealer.

I have not been impressed with a number of things coming out of HD or
Lowes, at least in my area, these past couple years.

>(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
>sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
>know this...)
>John

I hear you. One of my early flooring jobs was to lay an oak parquet
floor over concrete in the lower level of a house. It was later
subjected to tons of moisture, which we didn't know at the time. That
floor looked like a crazy rollercoaster for a few years until we got
the moisture issues addressed, rpleaced some tiles and provided more
air circulation. It was glued to concrete and, aside from being a pain
to pull up, it was a pain to lay as the glue setup fast. My fingers
and hands hurt for days afterward. It looked good when dry!
`Casper

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:13:06 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in news:umfvdallijfhnepvi04me54slqijranofm@
>4ax.com:
>
>> If you buy the same glue at Home Dspot, Lowes, or your local
>> "flooring store" it will be the same quality. Sometimes the flooring
>> store has better stuff available, but that is also true of places like
>> Lowes and Home Despot.
>
>No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
>floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
>and it will be the lowest cost one.
>
>The flooring store likely will give you a choice, and if they
>don't their one brand will be a better quality one.
>
>John
Lowes carries Bostik , Bruce, Tecsun, Mohawk, and USFloor. 3 1/2 or 4
gallon containers $160, $89, $190, $220, and $192 US prices
repectively. I think the despot carries Roberts and Taylor - at least
2 different products from Taylor - MS+ and Tuff-Lok at $134 and $76
respectively, with the Roberts at about $95

Flooring experts are using the Bostik product, as well as Tecsun,
Bruce, and Mohawk (depending on the brand of flooring they sell)

>> More unusual flooring...
>> http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/protecting-the-environment

>I'm going to start saving the caps so I can do both bathrooms. My wife
>is going to be so happy when I surprise her with ut.
>Ed Pawlowski

Ha! Do let me know how that works out for you!

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:13:37 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99
>> sq/ft.
>> It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.
>
>Well, I'm glad your satisfied, but...
>
>Bruce is extremely low quality and badly lacking in durability.
>At $2.99 sq, I'd say it's substantially overpriced.
>
>You can probably find Anderson for not much more (altho you
>might have to order it shipped, which adds to the cost).
>Anderson is a much higher quality product.
>
>Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
>flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
>product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
>is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
>more if you go to a flooring dealer.
>
>(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
>sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
>know this...)
>
>John
If you buy the same glue at Home Dspot, Lowes, or your local
"flooring store" it will be the same quality. Sometimes the flooring
store has better stuff available, but that is also true of places like
Lowes and Home Despot. If you buy the cheapest crap either place has,
you get junk. If you buy the best either place has, you MAY be
overpaying for your requirements, but it is still cheaper than having
to do it over because you cheaped out.

I generally check around and don't buy either the cheapest or the most
expensive.

My experience is buying the same quality, same brand product from the
big box stores or from a real retailer (flooring shop, etc) there is
not a big difference in price, and if you need advice, the advice you
get from the "expert" is a lot better than what you get from the
"borg"

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 22:46:48 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
>>[email protected]:
>>
>>> My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
>>> with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
>>> negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?
>>
>>I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)
>>
>>Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
>>office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
>>delaminating.
>
>Delaminating? How does wood delaminate? It's not laminated in the
>first place.

Likely engineered hardwood. - or even more likely, Bruce Laminate -
which is far from "hardwood" as you can get. Laminate is a picture of
hardwood decoupaged onto some of the crappiest thick paperboard you
can find.. There are a few companies that produce a durable laminate,
but it will cost as much as real quality hardwood.
>
>>Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
>>hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
>>looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
>>vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
>>even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.
>>
>>John