Shipping Costs

On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>to complain to someone.


Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
course. This is UPS after all.

They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
UPS.

UPS sucks.

On 19 Oct 2006 07:38:51 -0700, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Prometheus wrote:
>> I'm still more than pissed off at Ford. Spent $15k on a new Focus,
>> and the antenna got clipped off by the garage door when it was 6
>> months old. My fault, sure- but all it needs is a little sheet metal
>> mount that a new antenna will screw onto. They wanted $8 for that,
>> $40 for a new antenna (I was told I had to buy it if I wanted the
>> clip), $25 for them to recieve it at the dealership from the
>> warehouse, and I'd have to pay in advance and go back two weeks later
>> to pick it up in person.
>>
>
>When are you going to learn that the garage is for storing tools and
>wood, not cars? LOL

Shame on you for wanting me to put my precious toys in a garage! I've
got an 1100+ sq ft. shop in the basement, where things are climate
controlled. Sheesh.

>The coorporations got me trained now to expect to be reamed for
>replacement parts and to be thrilled when I can actually get a
>replacment part.. :)
>
>I'm indifferent to Ford.. but any other car company would've probably
>done the same thing. The name of the game is to save 5 cents on an
>attenna mount because we as consumers make price such a high priority..
>If they upgraded all the little stuff like that, a Focus would probably
>cost 1-3k more. You and I might be willing to pay the premium, but most
>people wouldn't. If everyone thought like me, places like Harbor
>Freight would not stay in business.

>Obviously, everyone doesn't think like me (which might be a good thing).

Might be a good thing, but not on that score. We're too obsessed as a
culture with wanting everything now, and wanting it cheap. Then
people wonder why the manufacturing goes overseas, and the ones that
stay here don't pay squat. Most satisfying purchase I ever made was
an $80 radio I put on layaway when I was making minimum wage, and paid
for $5 at a time. Wasn't that it was that great- it was just
something to look forward to over the course of four months, and I
sure did appreciate it when I got it home... a whole different feeling
than just carting in a carload of crap from the Wal-mart to be used or
ignored- like the crap that comes in every other payday.

Now that's not to advocate poverty- but it makes a difference in how
you feel about things when they're just out of reach and you save for
and anticipate them. You end up choosing higher quality, caring for
them more, and generally appreciating the things you have more than if
you just put a pile of cheap junk on a credit card and shove it in a
corner at home.

If everyone thought like that, we'd be able to revive American
manufacturing and those jobs that were created might be a little less
pressure-oriented and pay better. Well, a guy can hope so, anyhow-
though it doesn't much matter, because it's not going to happen in my
lifetime.

>Wow. If my Table Saw, Drill Press or Planer became dead I'd be more than
happy to have it working again for $11!

I often do what I can to avoid paying shipping costs also, and I know
they seem high. I'll look around Amazon to bring orders up past the
$25 free shipping point, I'll search around online to find a supplier
with lower freight charges, or I'll plan to stop by stores (i.e.
Woodcraft) that aren't local to me, but are on the way to somewhere I'm
traveling. Overall, I probably spend more time trying to save a few
bucks than I really save in the end. However, if your part were $11
and shipping were "free", it'd probably be a mini-gloat!
Andy

warbler wrote:
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.

I'm curious as to what 1-oz part shuts the jointer down dead?

But, as a side note, while I don't disagree w/ assessment that S/H
charge of $8 is really out of line, a USPS first class envelope would
be less than $1 actual shipping cost--of course, the labor and
ancillary support costs still make it probably a break-even deal at
best for Delta.

dpb wrote:

> I'm curious as to what 1-oz part shuts the jointer down dead?

Me too.

> But, as a side note, while I don't disagree w/ assessment that S/H
> charge of $8 is really out of line, a USPS first class envelope would
> be less than $1 actual shipping cost--of course, the labor and
> ancillary support costs still make it probably a break-even deal at
> best for Delta.

I agree. If I was the seller, I would drop the shipping cost to two
bucks and raise the price of the part to 9.

warbler wrote:
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.

I'm sure you understand Delta's point of view that the other posters
reminded you of.

Yeah, I know, just on principle, it doesn't seem right when shipping is
double the cost of the item.

Got to have something to complain about, I understand. LOL

Locutus wrote:
<why shipping is expensive>

I've never owned a retail or mail order business, but I know that as a
consumer, I'm totally irrational when it comes to shipping charges. I
hate to pay shipping. I totally empathize with the original poster.
If they said the part was $11 and the shipping was free, then I would
feel like I'm getting a good deal -- a fixed jointer for $11! Instead,
the part is $3 and the shipping is $8, so I feel like I'm getting
ripped off. Like I said, this is not rational and I have tried over
and over again to remove this irrational thought pattern, but it is
very difficult (at least for me). I think it is akin to human's
inability to evaluate risk in certain situations.

It might be that Amazon has trained me this way.

I have often wondered what would happen to my Lee Valley habit if they
lowered their shipping charges substantially. For example, a medium
shoulder plane is $159. Shipping, if you just order the plane, is
$12.50, bringing the total to $171.50. More than once, I have gotten
to the checkout page, seen $12.50 and said, "$12.50 for shipping! Oh
nevermind." So what if the plane cost $169 and the shipping was $3?
That seems like a much better deal, even though the total ($172) is
higher.

Like I said, I am totally irrational about this. Does anybody else
have a similar reaction?

Mark

Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:

There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
shipping
There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
to shipping
There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
quality (which in this case is true)
There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
the part

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
...
> The defense in this thread of "high" shipping costs is a bit surprising and
> largely ignores that most of the costs listed as justification apply to any
> retail/walk in operation(auto parts stores etc.) other than the actual
> postage. Staging and inventory are not trivial in any operation and yet
> retail wise account for a very small portion of the purchase price......
...

Owing in large part to the fact that they're restocking items in bulk
so that the freight charges are amortized over a large number of
individual items. Walk in and ask for a special order item and the
cost model changes drastically and, more than likely, so will the
pricing.

Goodwill only goes so far...for a smaller business or an occasional
lowcost item it may well be wise to "eat" the shipping costs. For a
large-volume organization, a few bucks over thousands of transcactions
adds up to real costs. Should they be amortized in a hidden manner or
apportioned to the actual user is then the question? There are
justifiable arguments on both ends of the spectrum, certainly. PC has
a particular business model--is it the best? Who knows(?), but it _is_
open, known and certainly not unique nor particularly onerous imo.

(Aside regarding earlier complaints about USPS for large volume, I've
certainly not tried that end of it, but it would seem as a
user/receiver a great benefit for small-ticket/light iitems that would
probably increase volume by the reduction of the "buyers' reluctance"
syndrome of "Man! I'm not paying _that_ for shipping!")

"Leon"
snip
> The insurance companies in the early 80's created a market for stolen
> seats. They only bought used seats to replace stolen ones and the demand
> for used seats was pretty high. Very often we installed the same seats
> that were stolen out of the vehicle and the seats were delivered by the
> insurance company. Strange... It tool them years to finally stop the
> cycle and start buying individual seat parts from us and let us assemble
> the seats. Costly but the stolen seat market dropped.

Leon, Boy do I remember that. Honda prelude seats were a hot commodity for
a long time. For two or three years, the insurance companies only paid for
used seats and we were installing two or three sets a week. Once the
insurance companies started to pay for new seats, the cars quit getting
their seats stolen. I believe they created the market to run up the claims
and subsequently the rates. Did they lower the rates after they changed the
replacement policy? No way, but they did dry up their claims.

Dave



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Stephen M wrote:
> >
...
> > ... a flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.
>
> No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
> shipping.

And how is that any different other than naming the "transaction fee" a
"handling fee"???

warbler wrote:
> Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained ...

Others have competently addressed the realities of the
shipping/handling charges as being essentially the product of having to
deal with large volumes negates "special-casing". That some judicious
application of business psychology might be able to improve perception
is undoubtedly also true.

But I'm still trying to figure out what 1-oz part shut your jointer
down???

The Other Funk wrote:
> Anyway, I am sure that Delta or any other company is not getting rich on
> this kind of thing. It does suck if you are paying a lot for a little but
> there doesn't seem to way around it.

BTW, Lee Valley, who a lot of people hold up as the "gold standard" in
many categories, charges $7.50 for shipping a $3 part. If you order
$21 of merchanise, then you pay $9.50 in shipping.

Mark

Prometheus wrote:
> I'm still more than pissed off at Ford. Spent $15k on a new Focus,
> and the antenna got clipped off by the garage door when it was 6
> months old. My fault, sure- but all it needs is a little sheet metal
> mount that a new antenna will screw onto. They wanted $8 for that,
> $40 for a new antenna (I was told I had to buy it if I wanted the
> clip), $25 for them to recieve it at the dealership from the
> warehouse, and I'd have to pay in advance and go back two weeks later
> to pick it up in person.
>

When are you going to learn that the garage is for storing tools and
wood, not cars? LOL

The coorporations got me trained now to expect to be reamed for
replacement parts and to be thrilled when I can actually get a
replacment part.. :)

I'm indifferent to Ford.. but any other car company would've probably
done the same thing. The name of the game is to save 5 cents on an
attenna mount because we as consumers make price such a high priority..
If they upgraded all the little stuff like that, a Focus would probably
cost 1-3k more. You and I might be willing to pay the premium, but most
people wouldn't. If everyone thought like me, places like Harbor
Freight would not stay in business.
Obviously, everyone doesn't think like me (which might be a good thing).

Stephen M wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Stephen M wrote:
> >> >
> > ...
> >> > ... a flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.
> >>
> >> No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
> >> shipping.
> >
> > And how is that any different other than naming the "transaction fee" a
> > "handling fee"???
>
> They break it out.
>
> shippingandhandling has the *perception* of being shipping cost plus
> profit.
>
> HF has dirt cheap prices and the transaction fee pretty much indicates that
> they intend to make up the profit in volume.... if you are not willing to
> purchase in volume, then you pay a premium.
>
> I agree that this is only semantically different than S&H, but *I* find it
> to be refreshingly honest.
...

But to take the semantics to the limit, the post to which you responded
and (I was questioning your response to) specifically was about
business-business transactions wherein the "handling" or "transaction"
fee _was_ broken out from a separate line item for shipping which you
then claimed was somehow different...

I don't disagree that it's nice when the shipping charges are
identified as the actual sellers' cost, but not all billing software is
set up that way and , in the end, the decision is controlled by what
the particular business' systems and accounting practices dictate.

"warbler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.
>

You can't really ship anything for less than $6 via UPS. Complain about it
to UPS, not Delta.

"Clint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:DS9Zg.27574$P7.25995@edtnps89...
> But really, how is your scenario (take order, pick up item, put in box,
> then send to shipper) that much difference than if you walked into the
> parts place and picked it up (take order, jaw with customer for awhile, go
> get part, ring up sale, bag item, hand bag to customer), which the
> exception of the actual shipping cost? Or even worse, a retail location,
> where they need to stock shelves, maintain a large storefront as well as
> stockroom, have cashiers, etc.
>
> Clint
>

With my company, we operate two retail stores with a warehouse in the back
of one of the retail stores for shipping internet orders. When shipping an
order, our shipper must first make sure the address verification passed with
the credit card issuer, if it didn't, he must manually verify it with a
phone call to the credit card issuer. Next, he must pull the order, for a
larger order, this can take some time, as sometimes some of the product is
in the warehouse and some of it is in the retail store. Next we must pack
the order in the smallest box possible while still having enough room to
properly protect the products. Sometimes this might require partially
packing an order until you realize that it's not really the best box
(especially with new shippers). Then the box is sealed and weighed. The
weight is entered into the shipping software, shipping method is selected,
and a label is printed. The package is placed on a cart to be taken to the
"outgoing shipment" rack.

It definitely is more work than standing out front at the register ringing
customers out. We mark up our shipments $2-$3 to cover the price of the box,
peanuts, packing tape, and labor. The rest of the shipping fee goes to UPS.
And this doesn't even account for the times when our website under quotes
shipping because the item is larger than the weight would imply.

Companies are not getting rich off of shipping fees... well, except for the
shipping company ;)

"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:g%[email protected]...
> How much per dollar do the salaries of the Stock People, Inventory People,
> Distribution People, Packing People & Shipping People? What is the cost of
> the Parts Department building and maintenance of that building?
>
> In brief. How much would you charge for going to a store, buying a $3.00
> item, make up a bill for it, pack it and get it to UPS? How long would it
> take?


The defense in this thread of "high" shipping costs is a bit surprising and
largely ignores that most of the costs listed as justification apply to any
retail/walk in operation(auto parts stores etc.) other than the actual
postage. Staging and inventory are not trivial in any operation and yet
retail wise account for a very small portion of the purchase price......
nonetheless the thread ignores the value or benefit of company goodwill that
is lost with $8 charges for 25cent parts. Recently I was missing a small non
essential part on my KitchenAid mixer, my grown daughter while conducting
other business with them asked about buying said part, they said it lists
for $8 and then they said forget the charge and sent it FREE including the
postage.....apparently not everyone thinks the parts department must be a
huge profit center.......guess which brand of mixer/company I recommend to
any and everyone? Rod

"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:22:30 -0400, "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]>
>
> Either way, it seems like the sort of thing they could keep one or two
> of at the dealership, and sell them for the $8 they wanted for the
> part- instead of trying to cash in on it.
>

Because you think a lot of people do this? :)

They should also keep one or two of every other misc part then as well...
for every make and model they sell. And the variations for each model
year... before you know it they are sitting on thousands of dollars worth
of inventory that has very little demand. Not a good business decision.

"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:27:21 -0400, "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tim Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>>>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>>>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>>>>to complain to someone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
>>>> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
>>>> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
>>>> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
>>>> course. This is UPS after all.
>>>>
>>>> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
>>>> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
>>>> UPS.
>>>
>>> And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
>>> repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
>>> picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to
>>> the repair center! How fair is that???.
>>
>>Depends. How much did Delta pay for shipping the part from Delta
>>distribution to the Delta repair center?
>>
>
> That's an internal Delta business decision how to get it from Delta
> location A to Delta B. That's the cost of doing business. Not the
> customers concern.

You don't think that you, the customers, pays for ALL costs of doing
business?

"Puckdropper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm no businessman,
>

Obviously. :)

"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>> I see the broken out shipping fee as an honest policy. This is very
>> common in business-to-business transactions, as businesses actually
>> understand the costs of doing business. You'll often see an item cost, a
>> flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.
>
> No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
> shipping.

Maybe they should tell you what they actually paid for the part as well?

John B <[email protected]> writes:

>I recently purchased a Dewalt Scroll saw from the US and shipping to
>Aust. varied between companies from $500.00 - $288.00.
>My thoughts is that a lot a companies see shipping as a means of making

When you start getting into truck freight and such, prices can vary all
over the map.

At freight101.com, they will list dozens of carriers that could haul your
freight. I have seen the price for a shipment range from $75 up to $300
or $400.

Brian Elfert

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:22:30 -0400, "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>But you aren't angry at yourself for not misjudging the height of the garage
>door?

Yes, I am. It's a low door (in an old house), and I was removing the
antenna every time I backed out for six months, and forgot one day.
So I take some of the responsibility for it- but I still don't
understand why it was designed like the barb of a fishhook sticking
out of the top of the roof in the first place.

Either way, it seems like the sort of thing they could keep one or two
of at the dealership, and sell them for the $8 they wanted for the
part- instead of trying to cash in on it.

Why don't you offer your services as director of Parts Supply for
DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable?





"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>to complain to someone.
>
>
> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
> course. This is UPS after all.
>
> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
> UPS.
>
> UPS sucks.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:08:05 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Frank Arthur wrote:
>>
>> But you aren't angry at yourself for not misjudging the height of the garage
>> door?
>>
>
>My buddy's bicycle shop, where I work part-time, is a big Thule and
>Yakima rack dealer.
>
>At least once a month, we have a customer who forgets about the loaded
>roof rack or Rocket Box, and attempts to drive into the garage.
>Sometimes, they're even driving quite fast! 8^(

Yet another reason to keep the damn car out of the shop...errr garage
;-)

Considering many parts have to be ordered across the border for me and will
have shipping, brokerage charges, etc. and be delayed so that 3 day shipping
can drag out to 3 weeks, I consider if the part broke or wore out, the
replacement may also break or wear out. When the cost of the parts are
cheaper than the shipping I always order several parts. If I need a $3.00
part and it is going to cost $30.00 to get it, I will order half a dozen,
the shipping costs will not change or will only be a dollar or two more.
This way I will NEVER have to order this part ever again. Frustration
reduced immediately.

"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>to complain to someone.
>
>
> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
> course. This is UPS after all.
>
> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
> UPS.
>
> UPS sucks.

"Rod & Betty Jo" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> The defense in this thread of "high" shipping costs is a bit
> surprising and largely ignores that most of the costs listed as
> justification apply to any retail/walk in operation(auto parts stores
> etc.) other than the actual postage. Staging and inventory are not
> trivial in any operation and yet retail wise account for a very small
> portion of the purchase price...... nonetheless the thread ignores the
> value or benefit of company goodwill that is lost with $8 charges for
> 25cent parts. Recently I was missing a small non essential part on my
> KitchenAid mixer, my grown daughter while conducting other business
> with them asked about buying said part, they said it lists for $8 and
> then they said forget the charge and sent it FREE including the
> postage.....apparently not everyone thinks the parts department must
> be a huge profit center.......guess which brand of mixer/company I
> recommend to any and everyone? Rod
>
>
>

LGB did that for me, I even had told them I acquired the locomotive I was
working on second-hand. I told them what I needed, and a few days later
I got a package from them with the exact parts I needed. As a result,
I'll heartily recommend LGB as well as take more time looking at their
stuff in the hobby shop.

I'm no businessman, but I think if it's less than $10 the company can
just forget the cost and deem it a goodwill thing. Who knows, the person
you help out like that may just result in more than the part's worth in
profits for the company. (This would be very difficult to count...)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Finding the keyboard operational
warbler entered:

> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and
> wanted to complain to someone.

Boy there is a lot of good stuff here frpm both sides here. I just want to
add my 2 cents here.
As a small business owner, I get 10, 12 deliveries a week from UPS, Fedex,
DHL and USPS. All of them have their good points and bad. I can't say that
one of them beat up on the boxes more then the other. I do have on supplier
that couldn't ship a box in a box without screwing up. The only reason I
deal with them is that they replace damaged items quickly and for free.
Shipping charges are a royal 15 carat pain in the ass. If I build it into
the price, then my product is too expensive. If I charge the instore price
plus the cost of the time for someone to pull, pack and lable, then add the
actual postage or other fees then I get complaints about $5 shipping on a
$12 product.
In the case of $8 on a $3 part. Well there could be a number of reasons.
Delta may find that $8 averages out over all the part orders. The $3 part
may not be a part that Delta has found necessary to stock as a part. So
someone has to get the part from manufacturing. Hopefully, they are in the
same building or at least the same state.
The third and possibly the closest to the truth is, $8 covers their fixed
shipping costs. Salaries + SS/WCI/medical, space, light, heat, packing
materiels, invoicing, billing.
Anyway, I am sure that Delta or any other company is not getting rich on
this kind of thing. It does suck if you are paying a lot for a little but
there doesn't seem to way around it.
Bob

--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:43:01 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>>So that's $73 for an $8 part-
>
>.. which you could probably get from a junkyard for a buck and a half...

(Smacking myself in the forehead) As stupid as it sounds, I hadn't
even thought of that- I was so pissed at the dealership, I just got
muleish about it.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:27:21 -0400, "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Tim Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>>>to complain to someone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
>>> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
>>> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
>>> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
>>> course. This is UPS after all.
>>>
>>> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
>>> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
>>> UPS.
>>
>> And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
>> repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
>> picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to
>> the repair center! How fair is that???.
>
>Depends. How much did Delta pay for shipping the part from Delta
>distribution to the Delta repair center?
>

That's an internal Delta business decision how to get it from Delta
location A to Delta B. That's the cost of doing business. Not the
customers concern.

But really, how is your scenario (take order, pick up item, put in box, then
send to shipper) that much difference than if you walked into the parts
place and picked it up (take order, jaw with customer for awhile, go get
part, ring up sale, bag item, hand bag to customer), which the exception of
the actual shipping cost? Or even worse, a retail location, where they need
to stock shelves, maintain a large storefront as well as stockroom, have
cashiers, etc.

Clint

"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> warbler wrote:
>> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>> to complain to someone.
>
> Someone has to take your order, someone else has to pick the item and put
> the item in a box. _Then_ it has to be passed to a shipping company.
>
> Employees and shippers don't work for free, and boxes don't grow on a tree
> behind the warehouse.
>
> Think about the alternative, which is where the MBA's close the spare
> parts warehouse because it costs to much to run and to maintain an
> inventory. Every inventory, in every situation, is somebody's money tied
> up.
>
> Why didn't you go and pick it up? <G>

"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> I think you'll save money. But maybe not as much as you'd hoped.
>
> Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
> a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
> with some rear seat stuff.


Typically the junk yards sell entire interiors to a customer. They cannot
sell a complete set of seats with parts missing. Having been in the
automotive business for many many years, the insurance companies go to the
junk yards first for automotive seats. Stolen cars most always need new
wheels, tires, seats, and radios. There was a time in the early 80's when I
saw on a daily basis stolen cars being brought to our dealership to have
those listed items replaced. Then and I suspect now, you cannot buy a
complete seat assembly from an American automobile manufacturer unless a car
is wrapped around it. The insurance companies in the early 80's created a
market for stolen seats. They only bought used seats to replace stolen ones
and the demand for used seats was pretty high. Very often we installed the
same seats that were stolen out of the vehicle and the seats were delivered
by the insurance company. Strange... It tool them years to finally stop the
cycle and start buying individual seat parts from us and let us assemble the
seats. Costly but the stolen seat market dropped.

"Rod & Betty Jo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Recently I was missing a small non essential part on my KitchenAid mixer,
> my grown daughter while conducting other business with them asked about
> buying said part, they said it lists for $8 and then they said forget the
> charge and sent it FREE including the postage.....apparently not everyone
> thinks the parts department must be a huge profit center.......guess which
> brand of mixer/company I recommend to any and everyone? Rod

They probably do consider it a profit center and that may be why you got it
free. It probably saved them $30 in paperwork to just send it out for $8
plus actual cost. Smart on their part. Now when you need that $200 timer
for the dishwasher . . . . .

"Tim Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>>to complain to someone.
>>
>>
>> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
>> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
>> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
>> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
>> course. This is UPS after all.
>>
>> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
>> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
>> UPS.
>
> And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
> repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
> picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to
> the repair center! How fair is that???.

Depends. How much did Delta pay for shipping the part from Delta
distribution to the Delta repair center?

"warbler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.
>

Are you serious? What should they do, eat the shipping just for you??
FYI - UPS charges for 1 pound (minimum) package to a residential address is
now about $5.00. Add the cost of the box, packing, label, labor to pull and
pack the part.

Be happy they don't have a $25 (or more) minimum order charge. I would.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:56:47 -0400, "Locutus"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:22:30 -0400, "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]>
>>
>> Either way, it seems like the sort of thing they could keep one or two
>> of at the dealership, and sell them for the $8 they wanted for the
>> part- instead of trying to cash in on it.
>>
>
>Because you think a lot of people do this? :)

Seems fairly likely, given the design. Wouldn't have to be a garage
door- backing out of anywhere that had an overhead obstruction of any
sort would clip the thing off.

>They should also keep one or two of every other misc part then as well...
>for every make and model they sell. And the variations for each model
>year... before you know it they are sitting on thousands of dollars worth
>of inventory that has very little demand. Not a good business decision.

Perhaps not- but this is a tiny part that would easily fit into a
drawer on the mechanic's desk- with room left over for about 1000
other tiny parts as well.

Ah well, now I'm just bitching. I see your point- there was just more
to the story with that particular dealership messing up the paperwork
on the initial sale, requiring two additional trips back to the place,
and endless irritiating phone calls (about three a week) for a month
where they all but demanded I give them a good review on a survey they
were sending out.

After all that, it would have been nice if *something* could have gone
smoothly and in my favor.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:08:26 -0400, "Tim Taylor"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>>to complain to someone.
>>
>>
>> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
>> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
>> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
>> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
>> course. This is UPS after all.
>>
>> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
>> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
>> UPS.
>
>And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
>repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
>picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to the
>repair center! How fair is that???.
>

It doesn't sound fair to me.

George Max wrote:
> If I'm
> getting a part from Delta, Bosch, etc., that's not so easy.

I've found a possible solution to that problem is to check for local
"authorized repair" places. I just saved $12 in shipping from Bosch by
obtaining a router part this way.

1.How much time will it take Delta employees to process the paperwork for
your order, look up and pick the part from some warehouse location. Pack the
item and supply a box or package and deliver it to the shipping department?
2. How much of the $8.00 is the actual cost of shipping?
3. Would your otherwise dead Jointer needed a 1 cent item or if the part was
$50 would the shipping cost make any difference to the shipper?
4. Do you think Delta is "getting rich" on your $11 transaction?
and
5. Is your dead Jointer worth $11 to have it come back to life and be
useable again?

Wow. If my Table Saw, Drill Press or Planer became dead I'd be more than
happy to have it working again for $11!

"warbler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.
>

In article <[email protected]>, "warbler" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
>and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
>suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
>costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:
>
>There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
>shipping

No reason why there should be. To illustrate with extreme examples, a $10K
diamond could be shipped coast-to-coast in a padded mailer or small box for
less than a dollar via first-class mail -- but a dollar's worth of scrap steel
might cost twenty bucks to ship from one side of town to the other. Shipping
cost is a function of weight, bulk, and difficulty in packaging, none of which
have any particular relationship to the value of the item being shipped.

>There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
>to shipping

I doubt that's actually the case. Do you seriously mean that the costs to ship
a 1/2-ounce gasket and a ten-pound motor are similar?

>There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
>quality (which in this case is true)

?? What does the quality of the parts have to do with the cost of shipping? I
confess I'm at a loss to understand why you think there should be any
relationship here.

>There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
>the part

It's probably less expensive for Delta to have a contract with a single
shipper, and ship everything that way.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 17 Oct 2006 12:18:27 -0700, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>warbler wrote:
>> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>> to complain to someone.
>
>I'm sure you understand Delta's point of view that the other posters
>reminded you of.
>
>Yeah, I know, just on principle, it doesn't seem right when shipping is
>double the cost of the item.
>
>Got to have something to complain about, I understand. LOL

Hey, you got a bargin!

I'm still more than pissed off at Ford. Spent $15k on a new Focus,
and the antenna got clipped off by the garage door when it was 6
months old. My fault, sure- but all it needs is a little sheet metal
mount that a new antenna will screw onto. They wanted $8 for that,
$40 for a new antenna (I was told I had to buy it if I wanted the
clip), $25 for them to recieve it at the dealership from the
warehouse, and I'd have to pay in advance and go back two weeks later
to pick it up in person.

So that's $73 for an $8 part- and I'd still have to drive 30 miles to
pick it up. Good thing the car has a cd player, I guess.

(Of course I'm just going to make a new mount at work on my lunch
break one of these days and save that $$$, but it's worth getting
really irritated about- an $8 part has guaranteed them that I will
never buy another Ford.)

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:51:07 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, George Max <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
>>a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
>>with some rear seat stuff.
>
>Speaking as a cheapskate and 30+ year habitue' of local junkyards in search of
>cheap car parts, I can tell you that interior parts, particularly anything
>upholstered, are very hard to find in good condition at most junkyards. This
>is because cars get into junkyards in two ways: they wear out, or they get
>wrecked.
>
>If the car is worn out mechanically, the upholstery will be heavily worn too.
>
>And most cars that are wrecked badly enough to be junked have one or more
>windows broken in the collision, which leaves the upholstery exposed to the
>weather.
>
>Speaking of junkyards... one of our local yards has a large sign behind the
>counter: N F C R . Anyone care to speculate on the meaning? <g>

I understand. The bottom line for Son's car is that it's 11 years old
and doesn't have a head rest on one side.

If I were able to get one, I don't give a lick about the upholstered
(sp?) portion. I'd like the internal parts. What's happened is that
the metal rods are actually a U shaped metal rod attached to a blow
molded plastic ballon with some kind of clips and screws. It's those
screws that have pulled out of the plastic. Where I to get one in
working mechanical condition, I could swap the cloth and foam portion.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:43:01 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>>So that's $73 for an $8 part-
>
>.. which you could probably get from a junkyard for a buck and a half...

Funny how junkyards have become. They know what a new or rebuilt
"one" costs and have raised their costs to be more in line with that.
At least that's what happened with my son's car and with a tailight
for my car. Ford wanted over $100 it, the junkyard was around $80.
Junkyard got the business in both cases.

George Max wrote:
>
> This is what the shipping apologists miss - giving the appearance of
> using shipping as a profit center just turns the customer off. But I
> suppose those organizations have more business than they need so they
> can afford to make some percentage of their customers look elsewhere
> the next time they need something.

Companies like Delta might actually WANT you to try an "authorized
repair depot" before you go directly to them. They are using B2B type
policies simply because they aren't interested in setting up a true
retail operation. Try calling them to buy a complete tool.

I went through this just yesterday with a Bosch router part. I was able
to walk into a busy tool repair shop in Hartford, CT and buy the $15
part, saving the $10 that Bosch wants to ship it from the Norwood, MA
warehouse.

The same shop also repairs and stocks spare parts for Makita, DeWalt,
Porter Cable, Delta, toasters, vacuum cleaners, etc...

>
> I see the broken out shipping fee as an honest policy. This is very
> common in business-to-business transactions, as businesses actually
> understand the costs of doing business. You'll often see an item cost, a
> flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.

No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
shipping.

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Stephen M wrote:
>> >
> ...
>> > ... a flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.
>>
>> No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
>> shipping.
>
> And how is that any different other than naming the "transaction fee" a
> "handling fee"???

They break it out.

shippingandhandling has the *perception* of being shipping cost plus
profit.

HF has dirt cheap prices and the transaction fee pretty much indicates that
they intend to make up the profit in volume.... if you are not willing to
purchase in volume, then you pay a premium.

I agree that this is only semantically different than S&H, but *I* find it
to be refreshingly honest.

-Steve

"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>to complain to someone.
>
>
> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
> course. This is UPS after all.
>
> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
> UPS.

And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to the
repair center! How fair is that???.

In article <[email protected]>, George Max <[email protected]> wrote:

>Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
>a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
>with some rear seat stuff.

Speaking as a cheapskate and 30+ year habitue' of local junkyards in search of
cheap car parts, I can tell you that interior parts, particularly anything
upholstered, are very hard to find in good condition at most junkyards. This
is because cars get into junkyards in two ways: they wear out, or they get
wrecked.

If the car is worn out mechanically, the upholstery will be heavily worn too.

And most cars that are wrecked badly enough to be junked have one or more
windows broken in the collision, which leaves the upholstery exposed to the
weather.

Speaking of junkyards... one of our local yards has a large sign behind the
counter: N F C R . Anyone care to speculate on the meaning? <g>

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"warbler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
> and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
> suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
> costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:
>
> There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
> shipping
> There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
> to shipping
> There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
> quality (which in this case is true)
> There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
> the part
>

I'm going to guess here that Delta shipped the part via UPS. If so, UPS
doesn't care about the value of the part (if it's under $100), the quality
of the part, the nature of the part, or the weight except in 1 pound
increments.

A 1 oz. package costs just as much to ship as a 1 lb. package. If the item
in the box is worth $.30 or $100, UPS does not care. The charge is based on
your zip code, the shipper's zip code, and the weight in whole pounds
rounded up - that's it. Over $100, they add cost for insurance. Plus, they
charge you a weekly fee just for showing up and picking up your packages.

To your point of shipping method - a company the size of Delta is not going
to pick and choose between shipping methods based on what is being shipped.
They will have a contract carrier and they will likely use them for all
parcels. It would cost them even more in labor costs for their shipping
department to evaluate the different methods and pick the cheapest one for
the purpose, fill out the necessary paperwork, etc. They can't just drop it
in an envelope and put a stamp on it - they probably don't even have access
to stamps or envelopes.

Even if they used the USPS, it would be more likely that they would use the
pre-paid Priority Mail boxes, which I think are $4.95 regardless of weight.

I guess people who don't do this every day don't realize that it's just as
much of a PITA to ship a tiny little item as it is to ship a big one.
Sometimes more.

"warbler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.
>
How much per dollar do the salaries of the Stock People, Inventory People,
Distribution People, Packing People & Shipping People? What is the cost of
the Parts Department building and maintenance of that building?

In brief. How much would you charge for going to a store, buying a $3.00
item, make up a bill for it, pack it and get it to UPS? How long would it
take?

On 17 Oct 2006 15:49:34 -0700, "Mark Wells" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Locutus wrote:
><why shipping is expensive>
>
>I totally empathize with the original poster.
>If they said the part was $11 and the shipping was free, then I would
>feel like I'm getting a good deal -- a fixed jointer for $11! Instead,
>the part is $3 and the shipping is $8, so I feel like I'm getting
>ripped off.
>
>I have often wondered what would happen to my Lee Valley habit if they
>lowered their shipping charges substantially. For example, a medium
>shoulder plane is $159. Shipping is
>$12.50, bringing the total to $171.50.
> what if the plane cost $169 and the shipping was $3?
>That seems like a much better deal, even though the total ($172) is
>higher.
>
>Like I said, I am totally irrational about this. Does anybody else
>have a similar reaction?
>
>Mark

I agree, to a limit. To me, shipping seems like a license to steal.
Shipping charges do appear to be out of line. I've heard the defense
- the cost of picking the item, the box, packing materials, etc, etc,
but IMO, that's the cost of doing business. That it's not reflected
in the item cost makes that item actually too cheap. You can't
*really* get the blurfl for $20, it's actually $30.

As a point of reference, I ordered a pair of gloves from
www.moosejaw.com They didn't fit right, so I returned them. I had a
choice here. They include a return shipping label with the
merchandise they sell you. All you have to do is put the stuff in a
box, slap the label on the box and put it in the mail. Easy. 'Cept
that using their label would reduce my refund by $8. $8 to use their
return label.

An option was available to send it on my nickel. That's what I did.
I cost about $3.50 at my local post office.

It's going to take them just as much effort on their end to open the
box and restock with either option. It just cost me less to pay the
postage up front.

BTW, I was credited the full amount of my purchase. Moosejaw is a
class organization. I'll be happy to do business with them at some
future time.

This is what the shipping apologists miss - giving the appearance of
using shipping as a profit center just turns the customer off. But I
suppose those organizations have more business than they need so they
can afford to make some percentage of their customers look elsewhere
the next time they need something.

"warbler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.
>

If this makes you feel better, How about you go and get it your self or they
sell you the part for $10 and ship it for free.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:58:59 -0400, "Locutus"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:27:21 -0400, "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Tim Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>>>>>online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>>>>>shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>>>>>to complain to someone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
>>>>> A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
>>>>> don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
>>>>> large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
>>>>> course. This is UPS after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
>>>>> stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
>>>>> UPS.
>>>>
>>>> And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
>>>> repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
>>>> picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to
>>>> the repair center! How fair is that???.
>>>
>>>Depends. How much did Delta pay for shipping the part from Delta
>>>distribution to the Delta repair center?
>>>
>>
>> That's an internal Delta business decision how to get it from Delta
>> location A to Delta B. That's the cost of doing business. Not the
>> customers concern.
>
>You don't think that you, the customers, pays for ALL costs of doing
>business?
>
>

There's a serious customer relations problem here in how they bill
this. When they do it this way they make themselves look as if
they're very nearly giving you the small part for free, it's the
shipping they're really making their money on.

Sometimes perception is the problem.

So when you point out that customer always pays, yes, I agree. The
problem now is how this is presented. The manner of it's billing and
the hard ass attitude of "take or leave it" kills customer loyalty.

My own personal experiences over the past 50 years leave me with a
mental list of places I just won't do business with. Yet there are
others that do the right thing (however that's defined) and get my
business over and over. Those people are the ones that don't leave me
with a feeling that I've been screwed as I walk out the door or
confirm my online deal.

So in the end, in addition to good business sense, it'd pay to also
have good people skills.

warbler wrote:
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.
>
I agree with the majority of the comments about companies having to
recoup their handling costs and overheads when mailing products, however
having a cheap item and whacking on ancillary costs as shipping costs
seems absurd.
It is akin to a retailer selling the same item for $3.00 and when you
take it to the checkout they add on percentage of:
property rent
Operators wages
unpacking bulk items
Cash register costs
Power
etc.
etc.
I'd tell them to jack the product and walk.
All of the above are included in the mark-up, and so it should be with a
posted item with only the actual cost of postage added.

I recently purchased a Dewalt Scroll saw from the US and shipping to
Aust. varied between companies from $500.00 - $288.00.
My thoughts is that a lot a companies see shipping as a means of making
a quick buck.
Just my 2 bob's worth.

regards
John

"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 17 Oct 2006 12:18:27 -0700, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>warbler wrote:
>>> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
>>> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
>>> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
>>> to complain to someone.
>>
>>I'm sure you understand Delta's point of view that the other posters
>>reminded you of.
>>
>>Yeah, I know, just on principle, it doesn't seem right when shipping is
>>double the cost of the item.
>>
>>Got to have something to complain about, I understand. LOL
>
> Hey, you got a bargin!
>
> I'm still more than pissed off at Ford. Spent $15k on a new Focus,
> and the antenna got clipped off by the garage door when it was 6
> months old. My fault, sure- but all it needs is a little sheet metal
> mount that a new antenna will screw onto. They wanted $8 for that,
> $40 for a new antenna (I was told I had to buy it if I wanted the
> clip), $25 for them to recieve it at the dealership from the
> warehouse, and I'd have to pay in advance and go back two weeks later
> to pick it up in person.
>
> So that's $73 for an $8 part- and I'd still have to drive 30 miles to
> pick it up. Good thing the car has a cd player, I guess.
>
> (Of course I'm just going to make a new mount at work on my lunch
> break one of these days and save that $$$, but it's worth getting
> really irritated about- an $8 part has guaranteed them that I will
> never buy another Ford.)
>
But you aren't angry at yourself for not misjudging the height of the garage
door?

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 03:43:53 -0500, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:43:01 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>So that's $73 for an $8 part-
>>
>>.. which you could probably get from a junkyard for a buck and a half...
>
>(Smacking myself in the forehead) As stupid as it sounds, I hadn't
>even thought of that- I was so pissed at the dealership, I just got
>muleish about it.

I think you'll save money. But maybe not as much as you'd hoped.

Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
with some rear seat stuff.

On 18 Oct 2006 18:39:58 -0700, "Mark Wells" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>The Other Funk wrote:
>> Anyway, I am sure that Delta or any other company is not getting rich on
>> this kind of thing. It does suck if you are paying a lot for a little but
>> there doesn't seem to way around it.
>
>BTW, Lee Valley, who a lot of people hold up as the "gold standard" in
>many categories, charges $7.50 for shipping a $3 part. If you order
>$21 of merchanise, then you pay $9.50 in shipping.
>
>Mark


This great if the seller has other stuff you could add to your order
to deal with the shipping cost problem. If I order something from
Amazon, it's easy to add something else to bring my order up. If I'm
getting a part from Delta, Bosch, etc., that's not so easy.

Lots of good info in this thread. I intend to keep it mind the next
time I need a part for a tool. And try to get USPS shipping. ;)

In article <[email protected]>,
Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Hey, you got a bargin!
<...snipped...>
>
>So that's $73 for an $8 part- and I'd still have to drive 30 miles to
>pick it up. Good thing the car has a cd player, I guess.
>

Have you checked with a local salvage yard? (junkyard) If there are
none available locally, I have had good experience with a few used
parts places that sell over the internet.


--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]

Having worked for almost 20 years in the shipping dept's of a few
companies, I can say that the $8 is a very small charge. Like most have said
that the UPS charge alone for them to take it is more than half of that
cost. That is why it is called "Shipping and Handling". Most places offer
only UPS shipping (or Fedex, or DHL, etc.) because that is who they are
contracted through. Fill up a trailer and they come get it and drop another.
Yes USPS delivery is nice and I prefer Priority Mail ( 2 days from west to
east coast in most cases) and a lot less pricey than UPS Blue. Some larger
businesses offer multiple shipping selections but the fact is many contract
through 1 shipping service.

I actually had Porter Cable send me parts at no charge as well. The safety
interlock/trigger lock broke after 2+ years of very limited use (model 7529
and a piss poor design of the interlock parts) . I called with part# and
credit card in hand. The CSR was helpful and when I explained the situation,
she excused her self for a minute to check my CC status, came back and said
that she would send the parts at no charge. When I inquired "why", I was
told "have a nice day".

Allen
> The defense in this thread of "high" shipping costs is a bit surprising
> and largely ignores that most of the costs listed as justification apply
> to any retail/walk in operation(auto parts stores etc.) other than the
> actual postage. Staging and inventory are not trivial in any operation and
> yet retail wise account for a very small portion of the purchase
> price...... nonetheless the thread ignores the value or benefit of company
> goodwill that is lost with $8 charges for 25cent parts. Recently I was
> missing a small non essential part on my KitchenAid mixer, my grown
> daughter while conducting other business with them asked about buying said
> part, they said it lists for $8 and then they said forget the charge and
> sent it FREE including the postage.....apparently not everyone thinks the
> parts department must be a huge profit center.......guess which brand of
> mixer/company I recommend to any and everyone? Rod

warbler wrote:
> So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
> online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
> shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
> to complain to someone.

Someone has to take your order, someone else has to pick the item and
put the item in a box. _Then_ it has to be passed to a shipping company.

Employees and shippers don't work for free, and boxes don't grow on a
tree behind the warehouse.

Think about the alternative, which is where the MBA's close the spare
parts warehouse because it costs to much to run and to maintain an
inventory. Every inventory, in every situation, is somebody's money
tied up.

Why didn't you go and pick it up? <G>

Thanks for the clarification.

Clint

"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Clint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:DS9Zg.27574$P7.25995@edtnps89...
>> But really, how is your scenario (take order, pick up item, put in box,
>> then send to shipper) that much difference than if you walked into the
>> parts place and picked it up (take order, jaw with customer for awhile,
>> go get part, ring up sale, bag item, hand bag to customer), which the
>> exception of the actual shipping cost? Or even worse, a retail location,
>> where they need to stock shelves, maintain a large storefront as well as
>> stockroom, have cashiers, etc.
>>
>> Clint
>>
>
> With my company, we operate two retail stores with a warehouse in the back
> of one of the retail stores for shipping internet orders. When shipping an
> order, our shipper must first make sure the address verification passed
> with the credit card issuer, if it didn't, he must manually verify it with
> a phone call to the credit card issuer. Next, he must pull the order, for
> a larger order, this can take some time, as sometimes some of the product
> is in the warehouse and some of it is in the retail store. Next we must
> pack the order in the smallest box possible while still having enough room
> to properly protect the products. Sometimes this might require partially
> packing an order until you realize that it's not really the best box
> (especially with new shippers). Then the box is sealed and weighed. The
> weight is entered into the shipping software, shipping method is selected,
> and a label is printed. The package is placed on a cart to be taken to the
> "outgoing shipment" rack.
>
> It definitely is more work than standing out front at the register ringing
> customers out. We mark up our shipments $2-$3 to cover the price of the
> box, peanuts, packing tape, and labor. The rest of the shipping fee goes
> to UPS. And this doesn't even account for the times when our website under
> quotes shipping because the item is larger than the weight would imply.
>
> Companies are not getting rich off of shipping fees... well, except for
> the shipping company ;)
>

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:01:06 -0500, George Max <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 03:43:53 -0500, Prometheus
><[email protected]> wrote:

>>(Smacking myself in the forehead) As stupid as it sounds, I hadn't
>>even thought of that- I was so pissed at the dealership, I just got
>>muleish about it.
>
>I think you'll save money. But maybe not as much as you'd hoped.

If I could cut out the new antenna and the shipping, that would save
$65 if I were to pay the list price.

Of course, if I just fabricate a new one or cd weld a stud onto the
old one, that doesn't cost anything.

>Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
>a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
>with some rear seat stuff.

That may be part of why I didn't think of it. The last three or four
times I tried the junkyard, they didn't have the parts I needed, or
gave me pieces from the wrong model.

In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>So that's $73 for an $8 part-

.. which you could probably get from a junkyard for a buck and a half...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Frank Arthur wrote:
>
> But you aren't angry at yourself for not misjudging the height of the garage
> door?
>

My buddy's bicycle shop, where I work part-time, is a big Thule and
Yakima rack dealer.

At least once a month, we have a customer who forgets about the loaded
roof rack or Rocket Box, and attempts to drive into the garage.
Sometimes, they're even driving quite fast! 8^(

On 18 Oct 2006 07:27:55 -0700, "warbler" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
>and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
>suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
>costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:
>
>There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
>shipping

Sure there is. It is shipping and "handling". Delta lost money on
this sale. It takes almost as much "handling" to process, pick, pack,
and load this part on a $3.00 sale as it does to on the $300.00 dollar
sale. However, there is not enough margin money in the $3.00 sale to
cover the labor and overhead to have it on the shelf and get it to
you.
>There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
>to shipping
Go back and purchase a 150Lb. part and see if that is true. The PMF
(parts master file) has weights for every item that is picked and
will match it to the carriers contract. But your still going to get
to pay for the handling. However, on the 150# part it may look like a
bargain.

>There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
>quality (which in this case is true)

Irrelevant and subjective.


>There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
>the part

I can assure you, that if it cost the company less money to ship by a
different method, i.e. to have a less costly, dual method with
tracking and reliability available, they would do so, reducing your
cost but at the same time increasing their profit (or in this case
limiting the loss on the sale).

Frank

Clint wrote:
> But really, how is your scenario (take order, pick up item, put in box, then
> send to shipper) that much difference than if you walked into the parts
> place and picked it up (take order, jaw with customer for awhile, go get
> part, ring up sale, bag item, hand bag to customer), which the exception of
> the actual shipping cost?

The handling costs, which is probably why they don't offer that service.
If they do offer the service to locals, they're eating the costs of a
small number of folks who can actually take advantage of it.

>Or even worse, a retail location, where they need
> to stock shelves, maintain a large storefront as well as stockroom, have
> cashiers, etc.

The part wouldn't be $3, it would be $9-10. <G>

Do you think if Woodcraft ordered that part for you it would have been
the same price? I'll bet it would have cost more. If it was $3, at the
minimum you'd have to wait weeks, possibly months, until it was grouped
with other spares and picked, packed, and shipped as a single order.
Maybe you'd get lucky and get it fast, if an order was ready to ship and
your part got in the same box.

You're dealing with fixed vs. variable costs. The bare bones cost of
the operation is the same, regardless if the part is $3 or $300.

If you bought (3) of the parts, the shipping probably still would have
been $8, but for $9 worth of parts.

Remember, be happy you GOT the part. MBA's look at spares operations
every day and close them as cash holes. 8^(

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:42:31 -0400, "EXT"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Considering many parts have to be ordered across the border for me and will
>have shipping, brokerage charges, etc. and be delayed so that 3 day shipping
>can drag out to 3 weeks, I consider if the part broke or wore out, the
>replacement may also break or wear out. When the cost of the parts are
>cheaper than the shipping I always order several parts. If I need a $3.00
>part and it is going to cost $30.00 to get it, I will order half a dozen,
>the shipping costs will not change or will only be a dollar or two more.
>This way I will NEVER have to order this part ever again. Frustration
>reduced immediately.

Actually I've done that. It saved money. And not just for shipping.
Back then, the parts are like $4 each. Nowadays they're more like $20
each. For some little plastic caps.

John B wrote:
>
> All of the above are included in the mark-up, and so it should be with a
> posted item with only the actual cost of postage added.

So the fact that you'd probably pay the same $8 shipping charge for
several parts is totally lost on you?

Instead of $9 for parts and $8 for shipping, for a total of $17, you'd
rather pay $33 for the order? <G>

I see the broken out shipping fee as an honest policy. This is very
common in business-to-business transactions, as businesses actually
understand the costs of doing business. You'll often see an item cost,
a flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.