Finish for red oak on stair treads

On Feb 19, 10:53=A0am, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
> Wow, shellac soft?
> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.


Still fairly soft even when fully cured compared to poly. Mars real
easy. Period. No need to reply. We got ~your~ message.

RP

On 2/19/2012 11:22 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>> Wow, shellac soft?
>> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>
> It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
> as polyurethane or spar varnish.
>
> Shellac is not commonly recommended for high traffic areas for that
> reason.
>
> Shellac also doesn't tolerate alcohol spills well (but it does repair
> easily).
>
> I'd use a good poly for stairs, or a blo-spar-turps blend.
>
> scott
>

well we don't make a habit of carrying open containers of alcohol up and
down the stairs......

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/19/2012 10:29 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 9:52 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>> Before poly, shellac was a common wood floor finish.
>> It was durable enough, dried quickly.
>>
>> Shellac's downside is alcohol resistance.
> ...
>
> For flooring it's even bigger disadvantage is water resistance, so
> particularly if this is in an entry area that's a consideration.
>
> It is, as noted here and elsewhere, the traditional/historic floor
> finish but there are reasons it was surpassed by the poly's and other
> floor varnishes and that prime reason is wear.
>
> The key item in choosing here imo would be how much traffic the area
> will get and what kind...up and down once in the morning and then again
> when go upstairs at night; not such a maintenance issue. Three kids, two
> dogs and running up and down constantly; think again...
>
> --

two (almost) senior adults. Twice a day travel.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/19/2012 7:15 AM, RP wrote:
> On Feb 18, 9:14 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2012 4:07 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>>
>>> So I am particular to shellac.
>>> I would do blonde or super blonde dewaxed shellac since you want it as
>>> clear as possible.
>>
>>> That will still help pop the grain.
>>
>>> As far as not too slick. That can be mitigated with sanding after, with
>>> any finish.
>>
>>> Other advantages, in one day you can get 4 coats done. Fast drying so
>>> less dust nubs.
>>> Low odor.
>>
>> thanks for the reply. I've never even touched a speck of shellac, but i
>> must admit after reading all the stuff on this group, my curiosity is
>> sparked.
>
> Shellac is soft and mars easily. Not suitable for stairs IMHO. I would
> use 1 coat BLO to pop the grain, one coat zinsser "seal coat " shellac
> for sanding seal and 3-4 coats water poly after. The BLO and shellac
> will make the oak beautiful and then the water poly won't give the
> lifeless look it would without the 2 steps before it. I do it all the
> time with kitchens and such and the look is fabulous.
> Amish red oak sounds like it is ~not~ kiln dried. I would be sure it
> is KD for stair treads.
>
> RP
>
>
>

no, not dried. But it's been sawn now for about 2+ years. In a garage,
up off the floor. Thanks for the suggestions.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/20/2012 9:56 PM, EXT wrote:
>
> "Steve Barker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak
>> i practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i
>> need to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>>
>> 1. not water based poly
>> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
>> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>>
>> Things that don't matter:
>>
>> 1. odor while applying
>> 2. cost
>> 3. time takes to finish properly
>>
>> thanks in advance! ,
>> --
>> Steve Barker
>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>
> Personally, red oak with a clear finish is an ugly wood, and it turns
> orange in time as light ages it. I would first do something to adjust
> the color to something more pleasing to the eye then coat it with a very
> durable finish. Stairs get a lot of abuse, more than most floor areas,
> most of the wear is concentrated in the middle and front of the the
> tread, and it will wear very quickly if it is not finished properly.
> Shellac is great but it won't last very long.

If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very
well be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in my
home that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a golden
color. How long are you talking about to see the orange?

On Feb 18, 3:42=A0pm, Steve Barker <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). =A0What i nee=
d
> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>
> 1. not water based poly
> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>
> Things that don't matter:
>
> 1. odor while applying
> 2. cost
> 3. time takes to finish properly
>
> thanks in advance! ,
> --
> Steve Barker
> remove the "not" from my address to email

Here is what we did, partially at the suggestion of an area wood floor
manufacturer:

1) Using pre-made Red Oak treads we sanded to desired surface prior to
installation. and covered them with cardboard as they were installed.
2) Applied one coat of MinWax Natural stain which was recommended by
the floor manufacturer to match the flooring we had previously
purchased.
3) Applied three fairly heavy coats of MinWax Satin Poly with some
sanding between coats.

I know the word MinWax drives some of the folks here to distraction
but, again, this was the floor manufacturer's recommendation. They
use a higher class of finish on their hardwood flooring but this is
the process they recommended for a contractor and homeowner. They
also steered me away from using MinWax floor finish because it was
more costly and provided no real wear advantage. Apparently it does
dry faster. The odor is what you expect from the MinWax products
mentioned. We were able to put two coats of finish on one day and the
third the second day. Then stayed off of it, with shoes, for another
day.

The color we ended up with is a great match for the flooring. We did
the first half of the staircase about 2-1/2 to 3 years ago when we
were finishing the house. We followed up last spring with the bottom
half which is at an angle to the upper part (as part of the basement
finish). after the two year or so time lapse the two stair sections
are perfectly matched, and we have seen no appreciable wear on the
first half.

BTW - Don't varnish you way into the basement or upper floor! (not
that I would) :O)

RonB

[email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on
>> poly with no problems.
>
> Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scruffing
>
> I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?
>
> I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.
>
> ;^)
>

HolySh*t Batman! Sure am glad I live in a rural area. What a shock
though - all of my life I've used that word and heard people use it to refer
to scratching. Never heard of the definition above. Now I gotta find a new
word.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Feb 21, 6:21=A0am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. =A0I use it on p=
oly
> with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=3Dscruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)

Robert

"Steve Barker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>
> 1. not water based poly
> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>
> Things that don't matter:
>
> 1. odor while applying
> 2. cost
> 3. time takes to finish properly
>
> thanks in advance! ,
> --
> Steve Barker
> remove the "not" from my address to email

Personally, red oak with a clear finish is an ugly wood, and it turns orange
in time as light ages it. I would first do something to adjust the color to
something more pleasing to the eye then coat it with a very durable finish.
Stairs get a lot of abuse, more than most floor areas, most of the wear is
concentrated in the middle and front of the the tread, and it will wear very
quickly if it is not finished properly. Shellac is great but it won't last
very long.

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/20/2012 9:56 PM, EXT wrote:
>>
>> "Steve Barker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak
>>> i practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i
>>> need to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>>>
>>> 1. not water based poly
>>> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
>>> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>>>
>>> Things that don't matter:
>>>
>>> 1. odor while applying
>>> 2. cost
>>> 3. time takes to finish properly
>>>
>>> thanks in advance! ,
>>> --
>>> Steve Barker
>>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>>
>> Personally, red oak with a clear finish is an ugly wood, and it turns
>> orange in time as light ages it. I would first do something to adjust
>> the color to something more pleasing to the eye then coat it with a very
>> durable finish. Stairs get a lot of abuse, more than most floor areas,
>> most of the wear is concentrated in the middle and front of the the
>> tread, and it will wear very quickly if it is not finished properly.
>> Shellac is great but it won't last very long.
>
> If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very well
> be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in my home
> that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a golden color.
> How long are you talking about to see the orange?

Some people may consider it to be "golden", to me I see the golden yellow
mixed with the hint of red in red oak and it looks closer to "orange" to me,
and I don't find it a pleasant color for wood. It seems to peak at about 10
years. I have seen it in a number of oak floors/furniture finished a variety
of ways so it doesn't appear to be caused by the finish. Possibly water
based will add less color and age better, only time will tell.

On 2/22/2012 7:18 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/21/2012 6:21 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> CW wrote:
>>> "Larry Jaques" wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> tiredofspam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
>>>>> that goes to the hardness issue).
>>>>
>>>> Huh? Who ever told you that?
>>>
>>> Now do you see why I filtered him?</rhetorical question>
>>> ========================================================
>>> Personally, I have never used scotchbrite on poly. I have used a lot
>>> of it on steel. Works great for that. Poly must be some tuff stuff.
>>
>> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs.
>
> Damn, does that leave you a little "sensitive"? LOL
>
>
> I use it on poly
>> with no problems.
>
>
>
>

Is Poly his wife?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
>> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.
>
> Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor
> finishing at one time.

And before that... nothing! Bare wood was typical in the 18th century and
much of the 19th here in America. BLO was was pretty common too.

John

tiredofspam wrote:

>
> Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
> that goes to the hardness issue).

Huh? Who ever told you that?


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on
>>> poly with no problems.
>>
>> Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....
>>
>> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scruffing
>>
>> I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?
>>
>> I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.
>>
>> ;^)
>>
>
> HolySh*t Batman! Sure am glad I live in a rural area. What a shock
> though - all of my life I've used that word and heard people use it to
> refer to scratching. Never heard of the definition above. Now I gotta
> find a new word.

Drop the "r" and you are good to go... if you slip up blame it on them not
hearing well due to noise in the shop. ;~)

John

On Feb 19, 12:01=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 10:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
> > On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
> >> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.
>
> > Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor fini=
shing at
> > one time.
>
> > FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent =
of
> > shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that say=
s
> > otherwise ... you can quit now. ;)
>
> I seem to recall regular ol' alkyd resin varnish being around for quite a=
few
> years before poly hit the scene. =A0Pretty much the same stuff as today's=
"Rock
> Hard Tabletop Varnish", if I'm not mistaken.

Behlen's Rock Hard =3D phenolic resin. Nice stuff.

On Feb 18, 9:14=A0pm, Steve Barker <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/18/2012 4:07 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
> > So I am particular to shellac.
> > I would do blonde or super blonde dewaxed shellac since you want it as
> > clear as possible.
>
> > That will still help pop the grain.
>
> > As far as not too slick. That can be mitigated with sanding after, with
> > any finish.
>
> > Other advantages, in one day you can get 4 coats done. Fast drying so
> > less dust nubs.
> > Low odor.
>
> thanks for the reply. =A0I've never even touched a speck of shellac, but =
i
> must admit after reading all the stuff on this group, my curiosity is
> sparked.

Shellac is soft and mars easily. Not suitable for stairs IMHO. I would
use 1 coat BLO to pop the grain, one coat zinsser "seal coat " shellac
for sanding seal and 3-4 coats water poly after. The BLO and shellac
will make the oak beautiful and then the water poly won't give the
lifeless look it would without the 2 steps before it. I do it all the
time with kitchens and such and the look is fabulous.
Amish red oak sounds like it is ~not~ kiln dried. I would be sure it
is KD for stair treads.

RP

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 14:04:35 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>
wrote:

>Spar finish is soft.. That's it's purpose, it's supposed to be flexible.
>Shellac is harder than spar.
>
>

Harder yes, but it is more durable?

Leon. Have you ever had a look at the Cadex nailers? They're a pin
nailer that shoots a "slightly headed pin". The key benefit to them is
the increased holding power.

Now, I'm wondering how much of a difference there is between the foot
print of a regular pinner and one of these "slightly headed pins"?

I've got to say, every time I'm in the market for something new, the
internet can be a curse as well as a blessing. There's so many options
for stuff these days that it's often a pain to pick something.

On 2/22/2012 6:15 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on
>>> poly with no problems.
>>
>> Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....
>>
>> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scruffing
>>
>> I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?
>>
>> I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.
>>
>> ;^)
>>
>
> HolySh*t Batman! Sure am glad I live in a rural area. What a shock
> though - all of my life I've used that word and heard people use it to refer
> to scratching. Never heard of the definition above. Now I gotta find a new
> word.
>

My dad "wrenches" his hands in the sink. :~)

On 2/21/2012 6:21 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> CW wrote:
>> "Larry Jaques" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> tiredofspam wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
>>>> that goes to the hardness issue).
>>>
>>> Huh? Who ever told you that?
>>
>> Now do you see why I filtered him?</rhetorical question>
>> ========================================================
>> Personally, I have never used scotchbrite on poly. I have used a lot
>> of it on steel. Works great for that. Poly must be some tuff stuff.
>
> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs.

Damn, does that leave you a little "sensitive"? LOL


I use it on poly
> with no problems.

tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>Wow, shellac soft?
>I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.

It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
as polyurethane or spar varnish.

Shellac is not commonly recommended for high traffic areas for that
reason.

Shellac also doesn't tolerate alcohol spills well (but it does repair
easily).

I'd use a good poly for stairs, or a blo-spar-turps blend.

scott

Steve Barker wrote:

> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>
> 1. not water based poly
> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>
> Things that don't matter:
>
> 1. odor while applying
> 2. cost
> 3. time takes to finish properly
>
> thanks in advance! ,

Sure someone mentioned it - but - if you do go with shellac, dewaxed
will help it to stand up better to water.

On 2/19/2012 11:22 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>> Wow, shellac soft?
>> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>
> It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
> as polyurethane or spar varnish.
>

Ok, careful there, a spar varnish is absolutely not hard, it remains
flexible so that it will not crack when flexed.

On 2/19/2012 12:41 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 11:22 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>>> Wow, shellac soft?
>>> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>>
>> It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
>> as polyurethane or spar varnish.
>>
>> Shellac is not commonly recommended for high traffic areas for that
>> reason.
>>
>> Shellac also doesn't tolerate alcohol spills well (but it does repair
>> easily).
>>
>> I'd use a good poly for stairs, or a blo-spar-turps blend.
>>
>> scott
>>
>
> well we don't make a habit of carrying open containers of alcohol up and
> down the stairs......
>

That could be beer or wine.

Probably about the same, it was 12 years ago.

I did 3 rooms in poly,
and 3 in shellac. the 3 in poly were dining, living and family room.
I have a ranch.
My 3 bedrooms and HALLWAY were going to be a problem for poly. I needed
to get to the bathrooms. And poly's one day to dry per coat was not
going to allow us to live there. Shellac would allow me to finish the
job in one day, and be able to walk to the bathroom an hour after
application in socks.

The HALLWAY takes the most abuse... and has exceeded expectations.
It has exceeded the poly too.

Which would I do next time in the family , dining and living room?
Shellac. No questions about it. Even if longevity winds up being 1 year
less. I have 12 years on both now. The ease of finish is about the same.
You need to work a little faster with Shellac to keep a wet edge.

For both I used lambs wool applicator... Poly keep the lambs wool in a
saran wrap... Same for shellac, or keep it in shellac... or clean with
alcohol...

For poly apply wait a day, sand nubs, vacuum, apply, wait a day. sand,
vacuum, apply.. 4 days for 3 coats.

For shellac, apply, light sanding in 3 hours, vacuum, apply, apply,
apply, wait until fully cured, and either sand or use a green
scotchbrite. Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
that goes to the hardness issue). The first sanding is necessary for
nubs. Whatever was not picked up by vacuum.... But after your just
building coats. It dries so quick that you don't need sanding each
time.. the dust won't settle in like poly.

Either poly or shellac are good finishes, but I don't see the big
advantages to poly.

Which looked better when done. Both, they both look awesome when done.
Over time they both wear and lose their sheen. With shellac I can get
most of look back with a maroon then white scotchbrite. Not with poly.
It won't pop back up. Is it oxidation, just scratches not being able to
be rubbed out??? I don't know.

On 2/19/2012 2:07 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 1:03 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
>> Years ago someone did a scientific study on the supposed advantage of
>> poly over shellac... Well poly just nudged shellac, it really was such a
>> small margin on durability. Water testing showed poly was marginally
>> better. Which surprised everyone. All the hype. Shellac is a great
>> finish. But to those that believe poly rules... have at it.
>
> What's the difference in cost?
>

So I am particular to shellac.
I would do blonde or super blonde dewaxed shellac since you want it as
clear as possible.

That will still help pop the grain.

As far as not too slick. That can be mitigated with sanding after, with
any finish.

Other advantages, in one day you can get 4 coats done. Fast drying so
less dust nubs.
Low odor.

On 2/18/2012 4:42 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>
> 1. not water based poly
> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>
> Things that don't matter:
>
> 1. odor while applying
> 2. cost
> 3. time takes to finish properly
>
> thanks in advance! ,

On 2/18/2012 3:42 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>
> 1. not water based poly
> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
> 3. not too slick to sock feet

What all sane floor finishers use ... polyurethane. Follow the
instructions on the can.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> writes:

>On 2/19/2012 10:31 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/18/2012 3:42 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
>>> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
>>> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>>>
>>> 1. not water based poly
>>> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
>>> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>>
>> What all sane floor finishers use ... polyurethane. Follow the
>> instructions on the can.
>>
>What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.

So why did they switch to POLY? Because shellac is inferior
for that application.

scott

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very
> well be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in my
> home that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a golden
> color. How long are you talking about to see the orange?

My red oak stepstool is still the same after finishing years ago with clear
shellac. OTOH, an ash shoe bech that I tried to warm up with some orangy
shellac initiall turned all kinds of colors, from green to orange, and only
later did I get it to just be a warm orange brown. I figure it is
interaction between components added to the shellac and resins in the wood
that can yield surprises. The advice would likely be a thin (diluted)
shellac seal coat that's left to dry before adding more shellac, but I'm
FAR from expert.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/22/2012 4:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow
> wrote:
>
>> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on poly
>> with no problems.
>
> Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scruffing
>
> I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?
>
> I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.
>
> ;^)

Dayum ... went 69 years doing just fine without knowing that. Now I need
some mental floss. Ehhh!

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/19/2012 2:18 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 1:04 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>> Spar finish is soft.. That's it's purpose, it's supposed to be flexible.
>> Shellac is harder than spar.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/19/2012 12:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>>>> Wow, shellac soft?
>>>> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>>>
>>> It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
>>> as polyurethane or spar varnish.
>>>
>>> Shellac is not commonly recommended for high traffic areas for that
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> Shellac also doesn't tolerate alcohol spills well (but it does repair
>>> easily).
>>>
>>> I'd use a good poly for stairs, or a blo-spar-turps blend.
>>>
>>> scott
>>>
>
> I used spar on b grade plywood in my darkroom. Indestructible for many
> years even with the chemicals. But way to yellow for my red oak.
>

Spar varnish is more of a marine varnish for out door use. Designed to
not harden but to remain flexible so that a spar does not crack it when
it flexes. Not really a furniture grade varnish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spar

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>tiredofspam wrote:
>
>>
>> Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
>> that goes to the hardness issue).
>
>Huh? Who ever told you that?

Now do you see why I filtered him? </rhetorical question>
========================================================
Personally, I have never used scotchbrite on poly. I have used a lot of it
on steel. Works great for that. Poly must be some tuff stuff.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On 2/21/2012 10:03 AM, EXT wrote:
>
> "Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 2/20/2012 9:56 PM, EXT wrote:
>>>
>>> "Steve Barker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak
>>>> i practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i
>>>> need to know is what finish i can use that meets the following
>>>> criteria:
>>>>
>>>> 1. not water based poly
>>>> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
>>>> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>>>>
>>>> Things that don't matter:
>>>>
>>>> 1. odor while applying
>>>> 2. cost
>>>> 3. time takes to finish properly
>>>>
>>>> thanks in advance! ,
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Barker
>>>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>>>
>>> Personally, red oak with a clear finish is an ugly wood, and it turns
>>> orange in time as light ages it. I would first do something to adjust
>>> the color to something more pleasing to the eye then coat it with a very
>>> durable finish. Stairs get a lot of abuse, more than most floor areas,
>>> most of the wear is concentrated in the middle and front of the the
>>> tread, and it will wear very quickly if it is not finished properly.
>>> Shellac is great but it won't last very long.
>>
>> If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very
>> well be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in
>> my home that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a
>> golden color. How long are you talking about to see the orange?
>
> Some people may consider it to be "golden", to me I see the golden
> yellow mixed with the hint of red in red oak and it looks closer to
> "orange" to me, and I don't find it a pleasant color for wood. It seems
> to peak at about 10 years. I have seen it in a number of oak
> floors/furniture finished a variety of ways so it doesn't appear to be
> caused by the finish. Possibly water based will add less color and age
> better, only time will tell.
>
>
Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion. :!)
I have never seen any red in red oak with the exception of when I sand
it with out dust collection. Fresh sanded red oak has a slight pinkish
cast to me. That all disappears with the introduction of a drop of
sweat or water and or any of the brands of varnish that I have been
using for the last 30 years.

I personally am not crazy about the golden color that it turns when wet
or varnished. LOL I do much prefer white oak over red oak.

CW wrote:
> "Larry Jaques" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> tiredofspam wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
>>> that goes to the hardness issue).
>>
>> Huh? Who ever told you that?
>
> Now do you see why I filtered him? </rhetorical question>
> ========================================================
> Personally, I have never used scotchbrite on poly. I have used a lot
> of it on steel. Works great for that. Poly must be some tuff stuff.

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on poly
with no problems.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Feb 18, 4:42=A0pm, Steve Barker <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). =A0What i nee=
d
> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>
> 1. not water based poly
> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>
> Things that don't matter:
>
> 1. odor while applying
> 2. cost
> 3. time takes to finish properly
>
> thanks in advance! ,
> --
> Steve Barker
> remove the "not" from my address to email

Nothing makes red oak glow like amber shellac. It's plenty
durable; my oak floors are 40 years old, amber shellac finish,
still in good shape. 2 lb cut goes on fast, self-levels, no need
to scuff between coats, as with varnish or water based.

Cut the "slickness" by using paste floor wax; these differ
from regular wax by addition of silica.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:15:43 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
>> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.
>
>Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor
>finishing at one time.

Waxing and rewaxing was a real, time-consuming chore back in the day.

Now, both water-borne & oil-based polys and polycrylics are used.
Flooring is the one area I won't argue that poly is best.

I've used Future floor wax (acrylic) for decades now, but on lino
flooring. I have carpeting everywhere but the kitchen. Commercial
Indoor/Outdoor went into the bathroom. It's much warmer and nicer for
those nocturnal jaunts down the hall, knowwhatImean,Vern?


>FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent
>of shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that
>says otherwise ... you can quit now. ;)

Maybe that's his sig or sumpin'? (He's filtered here.)

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On Feb 19, 1:03=A0pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:

> It is very hard, and therefore polishes beautifuly, buffs up to a high
> polished finish, easily sands to a luster. Try that with poly.

If that wasn't rhetorical and you are interested in learning,

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Polishing_Polyurethane_to_a_High_Glos=
s.html

There is a lot of info on how to do it, including articles and
opinions of luthiers and others that do just that.

There used to be a picture (may still be) on J. Jewitt's site of how
he polished his own waterborne poly to a mirror finish so fine you
could read the writing on the can of finish in the image reflection
from the table top.

Robert

Spar finish is soft.. That's it's purpose, it's supposed to be flexible.
Shellac is harder than spar.



On 2/19/2012 12:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>> Wow, shellac soft?
>> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>
> It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
> as polyurethane or spar varnish.
>
> Shellac is not commonly recommended for high traffic areas for that
> reason.
>
> Shellac also doesn't tolerate alcohol spills well (but it does repair
> easily).
>
> I'd use a good poly for stairs, or a blo-spar-turps blend.
>
> scott
>

Ok, Shellac can water spot, leave an ice cold glass on the floor
overnight and you probably will have a water spot.

As far as mopping, no problem.


Years ago someone did a scientific study on the supposed advantage of
poly over shellac... Well poly just nudged shellac, it really was such a
small margin on durability. Water testing showed poly was marginally
better. Which surprised everyone. All the hype. Shellac is a great
finish. But to those that believe poly rules... have at it. My wife kept
watering a plant on the poly floor. Major damage. No difference between
poly and shellac there.

My dog has destroyed our poly floor. My shellac floor was easily
repaired. The poly floor needs to be sanded all the way down, and
refinished.

I'll continue to use shellac... beauty, ease of application, ease of
maintenance, and nice to know that it is used on pills, so it is safe to
your system.

It is very hard, and therefore polishes beautifuly, buffs up to a high
polished finish, easily sands to a luster. Try that with poly.

On 2/19/2012 11:29 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 9:52 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>> Before poly, shellac was a common wood floor finish.
>> It was durable enough, dried quickly.
>>
>> Shellac's downside is alcohol resistance.
> ...
>
> For flooring it's even bigger disadvantage is water resistance, so
> particularly if this is in an entry area that's a consideration.
>
> It is, as noted here and elsewhere, the traditional/historic floor
> finish but there are reasons it was surpassed by the poly's and other
> floor varnishes and that prime reason is wear.
>
> The key item in choosing here imo would be how much traffic the area
> will get and what kind...up and down once in the morning and then again
> when go upstairs at night; not such a maintenance issue. Three kids, two
> dogs and running up and down constantly; think again...
>
> --

Maybe, or rather than buy lac from India, they can manufacture it right
here. Yes it is marginally stronger, but given all the downsides.. it is
marginal...

Have you tried Shellac on a floor?

On 2/19/2012 12:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>
>> On 2/19/2012 10:31 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 2/18/2012 3:42 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
>>>> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
>>>> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>>>>
>>>> 1. not water based poly
>>>> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
>>>> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>>>
>>> What all sane floor finishers use ... polyurethane. Follow the
>>> instructions on the can.
>>>
>> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.
>
> So why did they switch to POLY? Because shellac is inferior
> for that application.
>
> scott

Just trying to beat the thing to death. Many misconceptions about shellac.

On 2/19/2012 11:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
>> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.
>
> Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor
> finishing at one time.
>
> FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent
> of shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that
> says otherwise ... you can quit now. ;)
>

Swingman wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 4:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it
>>> on poly with no problems.
>>
>> Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....
>>
>> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scruffing
>>
>> I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?
>>
>> I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.
>>
>> ;^)
>
> Dayum ... went 69 years doing just fine without knowing that. Now I
> need some mental floss. Ehhh!

Yeah - leave it to Robert...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Before poly, shellac was a common wood floor finish.
It was durable enough, dried quickly.

Shellac's downside is alcohol resistance.
As far as fixing spots, shellac beats them all. Why?
Because it repairs easily remelting the previous layers for repairs.
Lacquer does this too, but it requires more prep, and smells.

But yes, Poly is more durable. But can't be repaired. Poly won't stick
to long cured poly.

On 2/19/2012 9:46 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/18/2012 3:42 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
>> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
>> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>>
>> 1. not water based poly
>> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
>> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>>
>> Things that don't matter:
>>
>> 1. odor while applying
>> 2. cost
>> 3. time takes to finish properly
>>
>> thanks in advance! ,
> You need a tough finish, shellac as mentioned would probably be a less
> than desirable finish.
>
> A lot of what you want is not going to be easily achieved.
>
> You need a hard finish and a hard finish tends to be slippery.
>
> To make a surface less slick you can mix in sand. but test with and with
> out for desired results.
>
> The clearest finish will be water based.
>
> If you absolutely must have an oil based varnish consider General
> Finishes Arm R Seal
>
> http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/oil-base-top-coats
>
>
> Simply put, you need to be careful on stairs. Solid wood stairs and
> socked feet are going to add an element of risk.

What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.


On 2/19/2012 10:31 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/18/2012 3:42 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
>> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
>> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>>
>> 1. not water based poly
>> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
>> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>
> What all sane floor finishers use ... polyurethane. Follow the
> instructions on the can.
>

Wow, shellac soft?
I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.

On 2/19/2012 8:15 AM, RP wrote:
> On Feb 18, 9:14 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/18/2012 4:07 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>>
>>> So I am particular to shellac.
>>> I would do blonde or super blonde dewaxed shellac since you want it as
>>> clear as possible.
>>
>>> That will still help pop the grain.
>>
>>> As far as not too slick. That can be mitigated with sanding after, with
>>> any finish.
>>
>>> Other advantages, in one day you can get 4 coats done. Fast drying so
>>> less dust nubs.
>>> Low odor.
>>
>> thanks for the reply. I've never even touched a speck of shellac, but i
>> must admit after reading all the stuff on this group, my curiosity is
>> sparked.
>
> Shellac is soft and mars easily. Not suitable for stairs IMHO. I would
> use 1 coat BLO to pop the grain, one coat zinsser "seal coat " shellac
> for sanding seal and 3-4 coats water poly after. The BLO and shellac
> will make the oak beautiful and then the water poly won't give the
> lifeless look it would without the 2 steps before it. I do it all the
> time with kitchens and such and the look is fabulous.
> Amish red oak sounds like it is ~not~ kiln dried. I would be sure it
> is KD for stair treads.
>
> RP
>
>
>

On Feb 19, 12:23=A0pm, RP <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 10:53=A0am, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Wow, shellac soft?
> > I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>
> Still fairly soft even when fully cured compared to poly. Mars real
> easy. Period. No need to reply. We got ~your~ message.
>
> RP

Harder finishes buff to a higher gloss. I can compound shellac
(or lacquer) until it looks and feels like glass. Poly will look
and feel closer to Saran wrap.

On Feb 19, 2:05=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 1:03 PM, tiredofspam wrote:> Ok, Shellac can water spot, lea=
ve an ice cold glass on the floor
> > overnight and you probably will have a water spot.
>
> ...
>
> Leave a wet shoe or a puddle from a snow melt off the kids' overshoes
> and you _will_ have a white spot.
>
> Fixed can be, yes...more likely to need fixing--also, yes.

Make the kids do the fixing. Won't happen again.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:38:41 -0800 (PST), Father Haskell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Feb 19, 12:01 pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> On 2/19/2012 10:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>> > On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>>
>> >> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.
>>
>> > Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor finishing at
>> > one time.
>>
>> > FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent of
>> > shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that says
>> > otherwise ... you can quit now. ;)
>>
>> I seem to recall regular ol' alkyd resin varnish being around for quite a few
>> years before poly hit the scene.  Pretty much the same stuff as today's "Rock
>> Hard Tabletop Varnish", if I'm not mistaken.
>
>Behlen's Rock Hard = phenolic resin. Nice stuff.

It's pretty nice stuff, but it does scratch somewhat easily compared
to oil-based poly floor finish. It's also way too glossy for floor
use, IMHO.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On 2/19/2012 9:52 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Before poly, shellac was a common wood floor finish.
> It was durable enough, dried quickly.
>
> Shellac's downside is alcohol resistance.
...

For flooring it's even bigger disadvantage is water resistance, so
particularly if this is in an entry area that's a consideration.

It is, as noted here and elsewhere, the traditional/historic floor
finish but there are reasons it was surpassed by the poly's and other
floor varnishes and that prime reason is wear.

The key item in choosing here imo would be how much traffic the area
will get and what kind...up and down once in the morning and then again
when go upstairs at night; not such a maintenance issue. Three kids,
two dogs and running up and down constantly; think again...

--

On 2/19/2012 10:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
>> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.
>
> Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor finishing at
> one time.
>
> FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent of
> shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that says
> otherwise ... you can quit now. ;)

I seem to recall regular ol' alkyd resin varnish being around for quite a few
years before poly hit the scene. Pretty much the same stuff as today's "Rock
Hard Tabletop Varnish", if I'm not mistaken.

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 2/19/2012 1:03 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Ok, Shellac can water spot, leave an ice cold glass on the floor
> overnight and you probably will have a water spot.
...

Leave a wet shoe or a puddle from a snow melt off the kids' overshoes
and you _will_ have a white spot.

Fixed can be, yes...more likely to need fixing--also, yes.

--

On 2/21/2012 10:03 AM, EXT wrote:

> Some people may consider it to be "golden", to me I see the golden
> yellow mixed with the hint of red in red oak and it looks closer to
> "orange" to me, and I don't find it a pleasant color for wood. It seems
> to peak at about 10 years. I have seen it in a number of oak
> floors/furniture finished a variety of ways so it doesn't appear to be
> caused by the finish. Possibly water based will add less color and age
> better, only time will tell.

There is indeed an entire industry that seems built upon the phrase, if
not the color, "Golden Oak".

(AAMOF, I'm surprised some corporate jackass hasn't bought a
clowngressman in an attempted to TM the term yet)

I don't see the orange of which you speak ... then again I've been
touting the benefits of being color blind for some time.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/21/2012 6:58 AM, Dave wrote:
> Leon. Have you ever had a look at the Cadex nailers? They're a pin
> nailer that shoots a "slightly headed pin". The key benefit to them is
> the increased holding power.
>
> Now, I'm wondering how much of a difference there is between the foot
> print of a regular pinner and one of these "slightly headed pins"?
>
> I've got to say, every time I'm in the market for something new, the
> internet can be a curse as well as a blessing. There's so many options
> for stuff these days that it's often a pain to pick something.

No Dave I have never see the Cadex in person.

But visiting their site, their 23 gauge brads have a .8mm wide head and
the 23 guuge nail is .025" wide. Basically the head is about 1.25 times
wider than the nail body. I don't see that as being much difference and
likely to only be wider on two sides and the same width on the sides
that the nails are attached to each other. Like 18 gauge brads.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>tiredofspam wrote:
>
>>
>> Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
>> that goes to the hardness issue).
>
>Huh? Who ever told you that?

Now do you see why I filtered him? </rhetorical question>

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On 2/19/2012 1:04 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Spar finish is soft.. That's it's purpose, it's supposed to be flexible.
> Shellac is harder than spar.
>
>
>
> On 2/19/2012 12:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>>> Wow, shellac soft?
>>> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>>
>> It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
>> as polyurethane or spar varnish.
>>
>> Shellac is not commonly recommended for high traffic areas for that
>> reason.
>>
>> Shellac also doesn't tolerate alcohol spills well (but it does repair
>> easily).
>>
>> I'd use a good poly for stairs, or a blo-spar-turps blend.
>>
>> scott
>>

I used spar on b grade plywood in my darkroom. Indestructible for many
years even with the chemicals. But way to yellow for my red oak.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/19/2012 1:03 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

> Years ago someone did a scientific study on the supposed advantage of
> poly over shellac... Well poly just nudged shellac, it really was such a
> small margin on durability. Water testing showed poly was marginally
> better. Which surprised everyone. All the hype. Shellac is a great
> finish. But to those that believe poly rules... have at it.

What's the difference in cost?

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/19/2012 5:59 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 12:41 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> On 2/19/2012 11:22 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> tiredofspam<nospam.nospam.com> writes:
>>>> Wow, shellac soft?
>>>> I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.
>>>
>>> It is considered a soft finish when compared to hard film finishes such
>>> as polyurethane or spar varnish.
>>>
>>> Shellac is not commonly recommended for high traffic areas for that
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> Shellac also doesn't tolerate alcohol spills well (but it does repair
>>> easily).
>>>
>>> I'd use a good poly for stairs, or a blo-spar-turps blend.
>>>
>>> scott
>>>
>>
>> well we don't make a habit of carrying open containers of alcohol up and
>> down the stairs......
>>
>
> That could be beer or wine.

LOL. not here.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/18/2012 3:42 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
> practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
> to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:
>
> 1. not water based poly
> 2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
> 3. not too slick to sock feet
>
> Things that don't matter:
>
> 1. odor while applying
> 2. cost
> 3. time takes to finish properly
>
> thanks in advance! ,
You need a tough finish, shellac as mentioned would probably be a less
than desirable finish.

A lot of what you want is not going to be easily achieved.

You need a hard finish and a hard finish tends to be slippery.

To make a surface less slick you can mix in sand. but test with and with
out for desired results.

The clearest finish will be water based.

If you absolutely must have an oil based varnish consider General
Finishes Arm R Seal

http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/oil-base-top-coats


Simply put, you need to be careful on stairs. Solid wood stairs and
socked feet are going to add an element of risk.

On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:

> What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.

Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor
finishing at one time.

FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent
of shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that
says otherwise ... you can quit now. ;)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/19/2012 1:07 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Just trying to beat the thing to death. Many misconceptions about shellac.

So far I haven't find a flooring contractor who will warrant a shellac
floor finish like they will their recommended finish product, which for
many years now has always been a polyurethane.

That said, you're preaching at the choir in most respects ... my finish
of choice, for just about everything I build in the shop, excluding
kitchen cabinets (and floors), is indeed shellac.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
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On 2/18/2012 4:07 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> So I am particular to shellac.
> I would do blonde or super blonde dewaxed shellac since you want it as
> clear as possible.
>
> That will still help pop the grain.
>
> As far as not too slick. That can be mitigated with sanding after, with
> any finish.
>
> Other advantages, in one day you can get 4 coats done. Fast drying so
> less dust nubs.
> Low odor.

thanks for the reply. I've never even touched a speck of shellac, but i
must admit after reading all the stuff on this group, my curiosity is
sparked.