Home Depot - what a bunch of maroons

Argon wrote:
> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?

As Homer would say: "I dunno....Innernet?"

I think it's one of those things where they want to cover the bases by
having one for sale, but they figure too few of them will sell to
justify carrying spindles. They don't carry many of the machines in
stock either.

I'm interested in one of those sanders too. Perhaps we should both
email Home Depot and Ridgid.

Mike

On Dec 4, 10:31 pm, Argon <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
> irrelevance.

The HD here doesn't even carry 6" hook 'n loop sandpaper for their own
RIDGID ROS.
They also tried to sell me an extended warranty for a tool with
life-time warranty...no joke.

Slipping fast.

How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)
Argon wrote:
> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>
> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>
> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>
> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
> course.
>
> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
> irrelevance.

Mark & Juanita wrote:

> Well, that certainly helps explain why their stock price hasn't moved for
> the last 4+ years. :-(
>
> Buy high, sell low, that's *my* investment strategy. Well, maybe not
> strategy so much as reality.
>
Home Depot. Whose idea has come....and gone. The local store is now
hiring out of Future Shop and Best Buy.... what does that tell you?
Soon they'll be luring away Burger King employees.
You can only fool people for so long... (no sirreee..not a statement
about politics.. no no no.)
Yup, they move into town, kill off the blood and guts that went into
the brick & mortar family owned stores... and move on.

r

On Dec 5, 5:41 pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
> > Bixby, Oklahoma for one...So what you're saying is that Wal Mart or Home Depot moved into Bixby, drove
> out all of the mom-n-pop businesses (which has been demonstrated to be a
> falisy,

Falisy my ass. I see it happen quite a bit.
Lou

Mike Marlow wrote:
[brevitized]

> As in the case of many locations, some small businesses do fold when a big
> store moves in. They typically don't have the ability to compete with
> anyone, let alone Wal Mart, because they only existed based on a
> stranglehold they had on the area prior to Wal Mart coming along. [snip]

I know of a few examples in this area where hard working families
slugged it out to have a few quality stores which serviced the
community quite well. Many plowed a lot back into the community.
Many did a lot of work through service clubs. The families did well
because they filled a need.
One of them would drive an hour to another town and back every other
morning at 4 AM so that his customers could have a fresher banana.
Sometimes, on his way back, he'd stuff a few bananas in the mailbox of
some customers who he felt should stay in that day because the weather
sucked.
Meanwhile, his own kids were shopping at the huge K-Mart
SuperMegaGinormous Centre across the river. It ain't fair and it ain't
right.

Very few give a fark about values any more.

*cues some vinyl LP*

"Soon the pines will be falling everywhere
Village children fight each other for a share
And the 6:09 goes roaring past the creek
Deacon Lee prepares his sermon for next week

I saw grandma yesterday down at the store
Well she's really going fine for eighty four
Well she asked me if sometime I'd fix her barn
Poor old girl she needs a hand to run the farm

And it's good old country comfort in my bones
Just the sweetest sound my ears have ever known
Just an old-fashioned feeling fully-grown
Country comfort's in a truck that's going home

Down at the well they've got a new machine
The foreman says it cuts man-power by fifteen
Yeah but that ain't natural well so old Clay would say
You see he's a horse-drawn man until his dying day

Now the old fat goose is flying cross the sticks
The hedgehog's done in clay between the bricks
And the rocking chair's creaking on the porch
Across the valley moves the herdsman with his torch"

Just Wondering wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > "Robert Haar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> >>You can't be serious. Would you extend this to drill bits, router bits,
> >>saw
> >>blades and all other expendable materials and accessories?
> >
> >
> > Why not? Only way you can be sure the drill bits match properly.
> >
> >
> Yep. That's why you need a Campbell's can opener to open your
> Campbell's soup cans, a generic can opener just won't do the job right.


It is not all that uncommon for companies of garbage products like
rigid & ryobi to use oddball sizes that necessitate using their sanding
attachments. Much different than Campbells that packages its products
to work with standard opening devices.

J. Clarke wrote:
>that take those same sleeve sizes.
>
> Since you clearly have nothing to offer except a dig at a couple of
> products that you clearly have never used and likely never even _seen_, I
> am curious as to why you posted a response at all.
>
> By the way, if that sander is any example, then Ridgid products are hardly
> "garbage".
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. I've owned products from both of
the manufacturers and have encountered the specific problem I cited. I
also own (note the tense has changed from past to present) products
from other manufacturers. They are not garbage and accept common sized
fittings and tools.

Don't shoot the messenger pal. The stuff comming out of chaiwan ain't
that great AND it's killing american jobs to boot. That's a lose lose
in my book. Not sure why all you folks spend so much time cheering on
what is inevitably your own economic demise. That's foolish in my book

A.M. Wood

In Big Flats, NY, Walmart has a store, and a Sam's Club... Now they're
opening up a supercenter less than a mile away. Whats the logic of
that, other than to saturate the area and drive everyone else out?

This is in an area with a lot of malls already... looks like they want
a fight

shelly

J. Clarke wrote:

> So you won't back off on your contention that the Ridgid spindle sander in
> my basement won't take the Ryobi sleeves that I was just using on it in
> my basement?
>
> Are you calling me a liar or are just illiterate?
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

First, proofreading is critical when your gonna be calling someone
stupid.

Second, as far as literacy goes, I can't seem to find any message where
I'm calling you anything, let alone "liar." If I had wished to call
you a name I would have done so explicitly. So stop reading what is
neither stated nor implied. You're wrong and that, well, makes you
look foolish.

Lastly, no need to start the ad-hominem attacks just because you don't
agree with my assertions. That's for kiddies and this forum is really
intended for adults.

A.M. Wood

Mike Marlow wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > In Big Flats, NY, Walmart has a store, and a Sam's Club... Now they're
> > opening up a supercenter less than a mile away. Whats the logic of
> > that, other than to saturate the area and drive everyone else out?
> >
>
> Has Wal Mart announced that they are replacing the existing store with the
> Supercenter? That has become fairly commonplace for WalMart, as the
> popularity of their Supercenters has proven itself. What would it really
> matter if Wal Mart or any other store opened new stores 100 feet from each
> other? If people are going to them, it is proof of consumer acceptance of
> those stores. Remember - Wal Mart cannot force consumers to come into their
> stores...
>

Their modus operandi is to have their own stores compete against each
other.


> > This is in an area with a lot of malls already... looks like they want
> > a fight
> >
>
> How does that look like "they want a fight"?

with their own store, as well as all the other stores nearby (lowes,
sears, circuit city, target, bonton, etc

Henry St.Pierre wrote:
>

Me said this
> > It is not all that uncommon for companies of garbage products like
> > rigid & ryobi to use oddball sizes that necessitate using their
> > sanding attachments. Much different than Campbells that packages its
> > products to work with standard opening devices.
> >
> >
>

You said this

> Yeah, 3X24 isn't very standard for a sander and a drill with a 1/2 inch
> chuck probably won't take a shank much larger, but probably will take a
> shank of a lesser diameter (cheap damn tool cant decide what it takes).
> Rigid tools (IMHO) are not garbage. Ryobi tools are probably the best tools
> a home owner/hobbiest can buy.


First go back and address what I said, not what you wished I had said.


Second, print a copy of your last post and put it in a frame in you
shop and go out and buy all the Rigid and Ryobi tools you want. Then
when they break and you find out you can't get them repaired because
"that part is no longer available" and the brush/bearing is some
whacked out custom size, look back at what you wrote and remember just
how damn good those tools really are before you get out the sledge
hammer to make em fit in the trash.

A.M. Wood

Argon wrote:
> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>
> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>
> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>
> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
> course.
>
> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
> irrelevance.

Are you talking about the RIDGID Oscillating Edge/Belt Spindle Sander,
Model EB4424? It uses (according to the Home Depot web site) a 4 x 24"
belt, of the type used on hand-held belt sanders. Should be available
just about anywhere (except Home Depot of course!)

--Steve

OK, please lets try and get it right - the word is "fallacy".
"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To make sure there is no hidden words in your text that I am missing,
> I will write it out in exact terms...
>
> -It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.
> -It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
> privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
> and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
> entity.
> -It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
> up stakes and left.
>
> Those are the facts of one small rural town. Call it a falisy if you
> like.
>
> To say ALL mom and pop shops are gone is not accurate. This is most
> likely true in ANY of the cases... But it certainly did have a
> negative impact on the number of small retailers in the town.
>
>>
>>"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Bixby, Oklahoma for one...
>>>
>>
>>So what you're saying is that Wal Mart or Home Depot moved into Bixby,
>>drove
>>out all of the mom-n-pop businesses (which has been demonstrated to be a
>>falisy, but we'll assume it for the sake of the discussion), and then
>>having
>>successfully closed down all of these salt of the earth businesses, pulled
>>out of Bixby themselves?
>
>
> Mike Alexander
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> See my online aerial photo album at
> http://flying.4alexanders.com

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:


>which compete at some level with the Wal Mart or the Home Depot. I've
>posted here before that Ace Hardware tells their franchise owners who are
>worried about a new Wal Mart coming into their area that the best thing that
>could happen for their business is that Wal Mart would open right across the
>street from them.

There is a Super Walmart in Beatrice, Nebraska population 12,000. Also a
Tractor Supply and a few few other chain stores.

My friend and I were visiting town a few years back and needed some
plumbing parts for my RV. We drove all over town looking for a hardware
store. We finally stopped at a small CO-OP for directions and were told
that both hardware stores had gone out of business since Walmart opened.

There may have been other reasons besides Walmart that both hardware
stores failed, but it seems awful coincidental.

We ended up buying some fuel hose and clamps from Autozone for a temporary
fix.

Brian Elfert

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:

>I'd sure have to understand more about this decision to close a brand new
>Wal Mart. This is an anomoly in the world of Wal Mart. There certainly had
>to be factors surrounding the decision to close this particular store that
>you left out, either because you're not aware of them or you are trying to
>skew a point by limiting the "facts" to an abreviated list of occurances.

It is not at unusual for Walmart to close an existing Walmart store and
open a brand new Supercenter a few miles away. In some cases, they can't
get approval to renovate an existing store into a Supercenter so they just
close it and build new elsewhere.

I personally know two locations where Walmart built a new Supercenter
within one block of an old store.

I read somewhere that Walmart has around 30 million square feet of empty
buildings they are trying to market. I'm sure the majority are old stores
replaced by new Supercenters. I've personally never heard or read of any
Walmart that closed without being replaced except a store in Canada that
formed a union.

I don't see a big market for closed Walmarts since not too many stores
are looking for a 75,000 square foot building.

Brian Elfert

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 20:23:31 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:
>
> Says the Wal-Mart apologist. Kind of hard to compete with an operation
> that is several orders of magnitude larger than yours unless you can find
> some way other than price to differentiate yourself, and that is
> difficult with mass-market consumer goods.
>

Maybe we need federal regulation on the price of the toilet paper and power
drills?

I'm not an English major either it's just that the language can be quite
elegant when used properly and very cumbersome when used haphazardly.
"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >OK, please lets try and get it right - the word is "fallacy".
>
> Engineer not an English major... Either way, the point was made.
>
> Mike Alexander
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> See my online aerial photo album at
> http://flying.4alexanders.com

"M Berger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm not sure that means anything. In the Chicago suburban
> area, going to a store in a nearby suburb can easily be a
> half hour drive. Gurnee is a suburb of Chicago. But it's
> also about 40 miles north.
>
> And Wal Marts have closed after just a few years when they
> felt the store volume wasn't sufficient. Unfortunately the
> small businesses that closed don't generally come right back.
>
> Nova wrote:
>> Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
>>> Bixby, Oklahoma for one...
>>>
>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:49:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where do you see Wal Mart and Home Depot pull out of town after they
>>>> have
>>>> "decimated" them?
>>
>> Bixby is a suburb of Tulsa. It looks like Home Depot still has eight
>> stores in the Tulsa area.
>>

I love how almost any topic concerning HD or Walmart turns into a flame
war....

Andrew Barss <[email protected]> writes:

>The first is the story of what happened to Vlasic pickles (company
>went bankrupt after getting a close relationship with
>Walmart), and the second is about one company that decided
>not to sell through Walmart, and why.

The first article is about about Vlasic selling a gallon jar of pickles at
Walmart for $3. Vlasic made less profit on these and wanted to raise the
price, but Walmart said no. (They eventually switched to 1/2 gallon
jars.)

The same article also says that Vlasic's bankruptcy was not caused by
selling the gallon jars of pickles.

The article does not specifically blame Walmart for the bankruptcy.

Brian Elfert

"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There may have been other reasons besides Walmart that both hardware
> stores failed, but it seems awful coincidental.
>
> We ended up buying some fuel hose and clamps from Autozone for a temporary
> fix.
>
> Brian Elfert


Think about what any respectable hardware stores inventory/ product are Vs
what is available in a typical Walmart hardware section.....I don't think
they really compete. Now grocery store selection is another story but for
the last hundred years bigger stores have driven out smaller stores many
times over....Safeway, A&P etc.....nothing unique about Walmart competition
on that front. Department stores also have a long history of bigger stores
driving out smaller stores, Wards, Sears etc. all built empires (some
temporary) by bringing more products cheaper to the market place.......The
typical rant against Walmarts "unfair" competition reeks of
hypocrocy.....speaking of why does Target get a walk? Rod

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Meanwhile, his own kids were shopping at the huge K-Mart
> SuperMegaGinormous Centre across the river. It ain't fair and it ain't
> right.
>
> Very few give a fark about values any more.


What isn't fair, right and what does values have to do with paying more or
paying less or shopping in one place or another? In my Dad's youth my
neighborhood had a small grocery store on virtually every corner, in the
days of little refrigeration and few cars people shopped daily...they also
spent over 40% of their income on basic food.... they had few choices on
brands, products or price but often as not a really cool shopkeeper whom
gave the kids penny candy and the family some credit through the bad
times........compared to a modern store with endless aisles of every product
imaginable, choices galore and a price point only taking 15-20% of a
families income......Life is full of trade offs and for every gain (price)
there are certain loses (friendly shopkeeper) but fair has nothing to do
with it....and you can if you so choose do all of your shopping at the
nearest convenient quick mart but for some funny reason most do
not.......Rod

"Rod & Betty Jo" <[email protected]> writes:


>"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> There may have been other reasons besides Walmart that both hardware
>> stores failed, but it seems awful coincidental.
>>
>> We ended up buying some fuel hose and clamps from Autozone for a temporary
>> fix.
>>
>> Brian Elfert

>Think about what any respectable hardware stores inventory/ product are Vs
>what is available in a typical Walmart hardware section.....I don't think
>they really compete. Now grocery store selection is another story but for
>the last hundred years bigger stores have driven out smaller stores many
>times over....Safeway, A&P etc.....nothing unique about Walmart competition
>on that front. Department stores also have a long history of bigger stores
>driving out smaller stores, Wards, Sears etc. all built empires (some
>temporary) by bringing more products cheaper to the market place.......The
>typical rant against Walmarts "unfair" competition reeks of
>hypocrocy.....speaking of why does Target get a walk? Rod


I never said the reason both hardware stores closed was because of
Walmart. It does seems more than a coincidence they both closed after
Walmart opened up.

The locals said the hardware stores couldn't compete on the stuff Walmart
does sell like paint, power equipment, and general hardware. The
specialized stuff Walmart didn't have wasn't enough to keep them going.

Target is different because they didn't start out targeting small towns in
rural areas like Walmart. Target has generally treated workers better
including good health coverage for part timers until 12 to 18 months ago.

Brian Elfert

In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 20:23:31 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:41:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>So what you're saying is that Wal Mart or Home Depot moved into Bixby, drove
>>>out all of the mom-n-pop businesses (which has been demonstrated to be a
>>>falisy, but we'll assume it for the sake of the discussion), and then having
>>>successfully closed down all of these salt of the earth businesses, pulled
>>>out of Bixby themselves?
>>
>> I still think it's amazing how many people completely misunderstand
>> capitalism. Walmart and HD do not drive *ANYONE* out of business. If
>> anything, it's the CUSTOMERS who choose, of their own free will, to
>> shop at Walmart and HD, that do it. Walmart and HD don't herd
>> customers at gunpoint into their stores, they simply offer lower
>> prices, because of their size and buying power, and people make the
>> CHOICE to shop there. So anyone who claims that Walmart and HD drive
>> anyone out of business is a bald-faced liar.
>
>Says the Wal-Mart apologist. Kind of hard to compete with an operation
>that is several orders of magnitude larger than yours unless you can find
>some way other than price to differentiate yourself, and that is
>difficult with mass-market consumer goods.

Better service is certainly one way that small operations can compete with the
big box stores. Some small businesses understand that, some don't -- and it's
the latter, IME, that can't survive competition with the big boxes.
>
>> And if they moved out of Bixby, it's likely they couldn't make enough
>> money to make a profit, what do you expect them to do? They leave and
>> anyone else who wants to start a business again is welcome to.
>>
>> It's called competition. It's the cornerstone of the economic system of
>> capitalism.
>
>Which system in its unfettered state proved to be an unmitigated disaster
>hence the Sherman Antitrust Act and other legislation.
>
Nonsense -- the Sherman Antitrust Act bans ANTIcompetitive business practices.
It was passed specifically to put an end to businesses conspiring to stifle
competition.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I agree that it is certainly not WalMart's fault that another business can
not compete. I also agreethat it is not there responsibility to operate a
non-profit business. I never even expressed a concern remotely close to
either of these. I only bring the facts to the table about one small town
that had a WalMart, small businesses went away as a direct result. This was
soon followed by WalMarts departure.

Brian Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 17:21:25 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >You are correct. But that was not th OP's comment either.
>
> No, the OP was asserting that it's somehow Walmart's fault that mom &
> pop stores can't compete, but also that it's Walmart's responsibility
> to stick around if they're not making a profit. I pointed out that
> both were wrong.

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> In Big Flats, NY, Walmart has a store, and a Sam's Club... Now they're
> opening up a supercenter less than a mile away. Whats the logic of
> that, other than to saturate the area and drive everyone else out?
>

Has Wal Mart announced that they are replacing the existing store with the
Supercenter? That has become fairly commonplace for WalMart, as the
popularity of their Supercenters has proven itself. What would it really
matter if Wal Mart or any other store opened new stores 100 feet from each
other? If people are going to them, it is proof of consumer acceptance of
those stores. Remember - Wal Mart cannot force consumers to come into their
stores...

> This is in an area with a lot of malls already... looks like they want
> a fight
>

How does that look like "they want a fight"?

"Chris Dubea" wrote in message

> This strategy was perfected by WalMart 20 years ago when they
> decimated rural communities and then abandoned them.

I just spent the better part of a week in a small AR town whose entire
cultural center revolved around a Wal-Mart SuperCenter and an Atwoods (farm
& ranch version of Harbor Freight).

Further proof of the BORG insidious assimilation being ingrained and
complete: even for this country boy, around the third day and the sixth
visit to each, I found myself looking forward to going again ...

Sad ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:14:18 -0500, "Locutus"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I love how almost any topic concerning HD or Walmart turns into a flame
>war....

It's because you've got the people on one side with facts and logic,
facing off against the anti-Walmart whiners on the other who can't
think, only react emotionally.

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> >Because their customers chose, of thier own free will, to shop
> >somewhere else. The mom & pop stores closed because they couldn't
> >compete. Competition is the cornerstone of capitalism.
> >
>
> You are correct. But that was not th OP's comment either.

That was precisely my original point when I stated that the idea that Wal
Mart drives out small businesses is a fallacy.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 4 Dec 2006 20:24:00 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

Maroon is a polite way of saying MORON.

Stinky


>How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)
>Argon wrote:
>> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
>> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
>> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
>> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
>> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>>
>> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
>> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
>> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
>> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
>> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>>
>> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
>> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>>
>> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
>> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
>> course.
>>
>> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
>> irrelevance.

Nova wrote:

> Henry St.Pierre wrote:
>
>>
>> I bought a Porter Cable belt sander at Home Depot last year and the
>> stupid damn store didn't have and Porter Cable belts. I had to buy the
>> 3M belts they carried. Really pissed me off.Porter Cable sander
>> -Poorter Cable belts. 3M sander - 3M belts. Klingspoor sander -
>> Klingspoor belts. That's the way it should be.
>
>
> I know! I sure have a hard time finding GM gasoline.
>
And Panasonic DVDs for my Panasonic DVD player. I wonder, does Henry
buy only TS blades made by his TS manufacturer?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> "Robert Haar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>You can't be serious. Would you extend this to drill bits, router bits,
>>saw
>>blades and all other expendable materials and accessories?
>
>
> Why not? Only way you can be sure the drill bits match properly.
>
>
Yep. That's why you need a Campbell's can opener to open your
Campbell's soup cans, a generic can opener just won't do the job right.

"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Funny, plenty of places find ways to differentiate themselves, mostly
> by offering superior customer service, etc. that Walmart and similar
> stores do not offer. How do you think Walmart got to be the 800-lb
> gorilla they are today? They started out as a small business and grew
> because they were successful.
>
> You people seem to have a problem with success.

You're kind of slow aren't you? The problem isn't with success, it's when
that success becomes so all-encompassing that it effectively obliterates any
chance of other little start-ups from becoming successful. Or, when that
success makes it more difficult than it should be for little start-ups from
having any real chance of success.

It's the multitude of little start-ups that determines the success of any
industry, not the one or two gargantuan businesses that blanket the entire
industry.

On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:41:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>So what you're saying is that Wal Mart or Home Depot moved into Bixby, drove
>out all of the mom-n-pop businesses (which has been demonstrated to be a
>falisy, but we'll assume it for the sake of the discussion), and then having
>successfully closed down all of these salt of the earth businesses, pulled
>out of Bixby themselves?

I still think it's amazing how many people completely misunderstand
capitalism. Walmart and HD do not drive *ANYONE* out of business. If
anything, it's the CUSTOMERS who choose, of their own free will, to
shop at Walmart and HD, that do it. Walmart and HD don't herd
customers at gunpoint into their stores, they simply offer lower
prices, because of their size and buying power, and people make the
CHOICE to shop there. So anyone who claims that Walmart and HD drive
anyone out of business is a bald-faced liar.

And if they moved out of Bixby, it's likely they couldn't make enough
money to make a profit, what do you expect them to do? They leave and
anyone else who wants to start a business again is welcome to.

It's called competition. It's the cornerstone of the economic system
of capitalism.

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 17:21:25 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
<[email protected]> wrote:

>You are correct. But that was not th OP's comment either.

No, the OP was asserting that it's somehow Walmart's fault that mom &
pop stores can't compete, but also that it's Walmart's responsibility
to stick around if they're not making a profit. I pointed out that
both were wrong.

"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >I'd sure have to understand more about this decision to close a brand new
> >Wal Mart. This is an anomoly in the world of Wal Mart. There certainly
had
> >to be factors surrounding the decision to close this particular store
that
> >you left out, either because you're not aware of them or you are trying
to
> >skew a point by limiting the "facts" to an abreviated list of occurances.
>
> It is not at unusual for Walmart to close an existing Walmart store and
> open a brand new Supercenter a few miles away. In some cases, they can't
> get approval to renovate an existing store into a Supercenter so they just
> close it and build new elsewhere.
>

Correct. That's the point I was trying to steer the other poster to.
Growth is one thing but to posture so as to make that growth look like
abandonment is something entirely different. At one time Wal Mart's store
model was that of a discount store. Today it is that of a Super Center -
because the supercenter model has been hugely successful. This is a natural
evolution of a successful venture and far from the abandonment that the
other poster implied.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

I lived there about 20 years ago... It was not even near 16-18k when
WalMart came and abruptly left. You are trying to teach the wrong
person about Bixby from the era of Wal Mart.


On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:56:16 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Mike 'Flyin'8' <[email protected]> wrote:
>>To make sure there is no hidden words in your text that I am missing,
>>I will write it out in exact terms...
>>
>>-It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.
>>-It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
>>privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
>>and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
>>entity.
>>-It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
>>up stakes and left.
>>
>>Those are the facts of one small rural town. Call it a falisy if you
>>like.
>
>The word is "fallacy". And speaking of fallacies... it is NOT a fact that
>Bixby OK is a "small rural town". Bixby OK is a suburb of Tulsa, with a
>population of some 16 or 18 thousand.
>
>Bixby is right on the Arkansas River. There are four or five WalMart stores
>just across the river from Bixby.
>
>So... if you couldn't get even that little bit right, it doesn't seem there's
>much reason to put any stock in your other claims, either. Care to
>substantiate them? Note: "everybody knows it happened" won't fly. Let's see
>some actual, you know, *proof*.


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

"Chris Dubea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> On 5 Dec 2006 05:55:01 -0800, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Mark & Juanita wrote:
> >
> >Yup, they move into town, kill off the blood and guts that went into
> >the brick & mortar family owned stores... and move on.
> >
> >r
>
> This strategy was perfected by WalMart 20 years ago when they
> decimated rural communities and then abandoned them.
>

Where do you see Wal Mart and Home Depot pull out of town after they have
"decimated" them?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> To make sure there is no hidden words in your text that I am missing,
> I will write it out in exact terms...
>

Thanks - that makes your comment from the previous post easier to
understand - lends context.

> -It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.
> -It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
> privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
> and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
> entity.
> -It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
> up stakes and left.

I'd sure have to understand more about this decision to close a brand new
Wal Mart. This is an anomoly in the world of Wal Mart. There certainly had
to be factors surrounding the decision to close this particular store that
you left out, either because you're not aware of them or you are trying to
skew a point by limiting the "facts" to an abreviated list of occurances.

>
> Those are the facts of one small rural town. Call it a falisy if you
> like.
>

Never said that your claim was false. What I said was that the ever-present
"drove all of the mom-n-pops out of business" was a false claim. In fact,
every place that a Wal Mart or a Home Depot exist, small business exists too
which compete at some level with the Wal Mart or the Home Depot. I've
posted here before that Ace Hardware tells their franchise owners who are
worried about a new Wal Mart coming into their area that the best thing that
could happen for their business is that Wal Mart would open right across the
street from them.

> To say ALL mom and pop shops are gone is not accurate. This is most
> likely true in ANY of the cases... But it certainly did have a
> negative impact on the number of small retailers in the town.
>

As in the case of many locations, some small businesses do fold when a big
store moves in. They typically don't have the ability to compete with
anyone, let alone Wal Mart, because they only existed based on a
stranglehold they had on the area prior to Wal Mart coming along. It is
common to find these types of enterprises crying that Wal Mart is going to
run them out of business, and then close immediately upon the opening of Wal
Mart. In fact, Wal Mart did not run them out of business, but was a
convenient excuse and even more conveniently, Wal Mart provided them with a
nice David and Goliath story.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

>OK, please lets try and get it right - the word is "fallacy".

Engineer not an English major... Either way, the point was made.

Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I lived there about 20 years ago... It was not even near 16-18k when
> WalMart came and abruptly left. You are trying to teach the wrong
> person about Bixby from the era of Wal Mart.
>

What was the address of that Wal Mart store? Simple street name is good
enough.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

To make sure there is no hidden words in your text that I am missing,
I will write it out in exact terms...

-It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.
-It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
entity.
-It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
up stakes and left.

Those are the facts of one small rural town. Call it a falisy if you
like.

To say ALL mom and pop shops are gone is not accurate. This is most
likely true in ANY of the cases... But it certainly did have a
negative impact on the number of small retailers in the town.

>
>"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Bixby, Oklahoma for one...
>>
>
>So what you're saying is that Wal Mart or Home Depot moved into Bixby, drove
>out all of the mom-n-pop businesses (which has been demonstrated to be a
>falisy, but we'll assume it for the sake of the discussion), and then having
>successfully closed down all of these salt of the earth businesses, pulled
>out of Bixby themselves?


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

In article <[email protected]>, Mike 'Flyin'8' <[email protected]> wrote:
>To make sure there is no hidden words in your text that I am missing,
>I will write it out in exact terms...
>
>-It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.
>-It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
>privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
>and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
>entity.
>-It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
>up stakes and left.
>
>Those are the facts of one small rural town. Call it a falisy if you
>like.

The word is "fallacy". And speaking of fallacies... it is NOT a fact that
Bixby OK is a "small rural town". Bixby OK is a suburb of Tulsa, with a
population of some 16 or 18 thousand.

Bixby is right on the Arkansas River. There are four or five WalMart stores
just across the river from Bixby.

So... if you couldn't get even that little bit right, it doesn't seem there's
much reason to put any stock in your other claims, either. Care to
substantiate them? Note: "everybody knows it happened" won't fly. Let's see
some actual, you know, *proof*.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

[email protected] wrote:
> How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)

Bugs Bunny used to say "What a maroon!"

In article <[email protected]>, Flyin'[email protected] wrote:
>I agree that it is certainly not WalMart's fault that another business can
>not compete. I also agreethat it is not there responsibility to operate a
>non-profit business. I never even expressed a concern remotely close to
>either of these. I only bring the facts to the table about one small town
>that had a WalMart, small businesses went away as a direct result. This was
>soon followed by WalMarts departure.

Correction: you bring to the table these unsubstantiated claims. Not facts.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 12/10/06 3:55 AM, "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I bought a Porter Cable belt sander at Home Depot last year and the stupid
> damn store didn't have and Porter Cable belts. I had to buy the 3M belts
> they carried. Really pissed me off.Porter Cable sander -Poorter Cable
> belts. 3M sander - 3M belts. Klingspoor sander - Klingspoor belts. That's
> the way it should be.

You can't be serious. Would you extend this to drill bits, router bits, saw
blades and all other expendable materials and accessories?

Personally, I would much prefer having tools that use standard expendables.
That way, I can shop for the best deal in terms of quality and cost.

There you go. Just what you need, a sander in the after life. : )
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Dec 4, 10:31 pm, Argon <[email protected]> wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
>> irrelevance.
>
> The HD here doesn't even carry 6" hook 'n loop sandpaper for their own
> RIDGID ROS.
> They also tried to sell me an extended warranty for a tool with
> life-time warranty...no joke.
>
> Slipping fast.
>

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
> Bixby, Oklahoma for one...
>
> On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:49:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Where do you see Wal Mart and Home Depot pull out of town after they have
>>"decimated" them?

Bixby is a suburb of Tulsa. It looks like Home Depot still has eight
stores in the Tulsa area.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>, Mike 'Flyin'8' <[email protected]> wrote:
>I lived there about 20 years ago... It was not even near 16-18k when
>WalMart came and abruptly left. You are trying to teach the wrong
>person about Bixby from the era of Wal Mart.

OK, fine -- but I'm still waiting for some actual facts. You haven't supplied
any yet.
>
>
>On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:56:16 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Mike 'Flyin'8'
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>To make sure there is no hidden words in your text that I am missing,
>>>I will write it out in exact terms...
>>>
>>>-It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.
>>>-It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
>>>privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
>>>and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
>>>entity.
>>>-It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
>>>up stakes and left.
>>>
>>>Those are the facts of one small rural town. Call it a falisy if you
>>>like.
>>
>>The word is "fallacy". And speaking of fallacies... it is NOT a fact that
>>Bixby OK is a "small rural town". Bixby OK is a suburb of Tulsa, with a
>>population of some 16 or 18 thousand.
>>
>>Bixby is right on the Arkansas River. There are four or five WalMart stores
>>just across the river from Bixby.
>>
>>So... if you couldn't get even that little bit right, it doesn't seem there's
>>much reason to put any stock in your other claims, either. Care to
>>substantiate them? Note: "everybody knows it happened" won't fly. Let's see
>>some actual, you know, *proof*.
>
>
>Mike Alexander
>PP-ASEL
>Temecula, CA
>See my online aerial photo album at
>http://flying.4alexanders.com

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Stinky <[email protected]> wrote in news:390cn2dmcik2rmjdl15uasp3hh3dbm71l5@
4ax.com:

> On 4 Dec 2006 20:24:00 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Maroon is a polite way of saying MORON.

No, it's not. It's a contraction of "cimaroon", which in turn is an
Anglized version of "cimarrones", which is a Spanish term for escaped
slaves.

It's not really a politically correct term any more, but the censors
seem to be too busy cutting out all the occurances of Yosemite Sam
blowing himself up to worry about Bugs's language.

John

Stinky <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 4 Dec 2006 20:24:00 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Maroon is a polite way of saying MORON.
>
> Stinky
>
>
>>How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)
>>Argon wrote:
>>> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools
&
>>> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value.
It
>>> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
>>> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run
out
>>> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>>>
>>> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to
get
>>> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have
this
>>> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
>>> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they
will
>>> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>>>
>>> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a
lifetime
>>> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>>>
>>> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
>>> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
>>> course.
>>>
>>> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
>>> irrelevance.
>
>

But is Argon that clever?

Argon <[email protected]> wrote in news:041220062031521062%[email protected]:

> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>
> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>
> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>
> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
> course.
>
> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
> irrelevance.

I bought a Porter Cable belt sander at Home Depot last year and the stupid
damn store didn't have and Porter Cable belts. I had to buy the 3M belts
they carried. Really pissed me off.Porter Cable sander -Poorter Cable
belts. 3M sander - 3M belts. Klingspoor sander - Klingspoor belts. That's
the way it should be.

Robert Haar <[email protected]> wrote in
news:C1A18691.21C4F8%[email protected]:

> On 12/10/06 3:55 AM, "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I bought a Porter Cable belt sander at Home Depot last year and the
>> stupid damn store didn't have and Porter Cable belts. I had to buy
>> the 3M belts they carried. Really pissed me off.Porter Cable sander
>> -Poorter Cable belts. 3M sander - 3M belts. Klingspoor sander -
>> Klingspoor belts. That's the way it should be.
>
> You can't be serious. Would you extend this to drill bits, router
> bits, saw blades and all other expendable materials and accessories?
>
> Personally, I would much prefer having tools that use standard
> expendables. That way, I can shop for the best deal in terms of
> quality and cost.
>
>

Never thought of that:).

"A.M. Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Just Wondering wrote:
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> > "Robert Haar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >
>> >>You can't be serious. Would you extend this to drill bits, router
>> >>bits, saw
>> >>blades and all other expendable materials and accessories?
>> >
>> >
>> > Why not? Only way you can be sure the drill bits match properly.
>> >
>> >
>> Yep. That's why you need a Campbell's can opener to open your
>> Campbell's soup cans, a generic can opener just won't do the job
>> right.
>
>
> It is not all that uncommon for companies of garbage products like
> rigid & ryobi to use oddball sizes that necessitate using their
> sanding attachments. Much different than Campbells that packages its
> products to work with standard opening devices.
>
>

Yeah, 3X24 isn't very standard for a sander and a drill with a 1/2 inch
chuck probably won't take a shank much larger, but probably will take a
shank of a lesser diameter (cheap damn tool cant decide what it takes).
Rigid tools (IMHO) are not garbage. Ryobi tools are probably the best tools
a home owner/hobbiest can buy.

Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Nova wrote:
>
>> Henry St.Pierre wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I bought a Porter Cable belt sander at Home Depot last year and the
>>> stupid damn store didn't have and Porter Cable belts. I had to buy the
>>> 3M belts they carried. Really pissed me off.Porter Cable sander
>>> -Poorter Cable belts. 3M sander - 3M belts. Klingspoor sander -
>>> Klingspoor belts. That's the way it should be.
>>
>>
>> I know! I sure have a hard time finding GM gasoline.
>>
> And Panasonic DVDs for my Panasonic DVD player. I wonder, does Henry
> buy only TS blades made by his TS manufacturer?
>

Absolutely.

"Robert Haar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> You can't be serious. Would you extend this to drill bits, router bits,
> saw
> blades and all other expendable materials and accessories?

Why not? Only way you can be sure the drill bits match properly.

"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > How does that look like "they want a fight"?
> >
> >
>
> When Target announced they were contemplating building across the highway
> from a Wal-Mart up north, we were somewhat amazed, yet they said that
> "facing the competition" was something they liked to do. First year the
lot
> was generally uncrowded, but it looks like the numbers are picking up.
> Nicer store, too. Aisles allow two carts to pass in opposite directions
> rather than being crowded and plagued with end caps.
>

It's very common for competitors to locate near each other. Look at
McDonalds and Burger King. Look at any shopping mall. Even though malls
are a more regulated environment, you still find competitors within the same
shopping experience. That's because it's advantageous to be where the
people are - regardless of what drew them there. It's not about Target
wanting to "face the competition" (regardless of what they say), it's about
locating where the shoppers are. Wal Mart draws them to one piece of
highway, others locate there.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

>On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:12:15 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>-It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.
>
>Gotcha.
>
>>-It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
>>privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
>>and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
>>entity.
>
>Because their customers chose, of thier own free will, to shop
>somewhere else. The mom & pop stores closed because they couldn't
>compete. Competition is the cornerstone of capitalism.
>

You are correct. But that was not th OP's comment either.


>>-It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
>>up stakes and left.
>
>Likely because they weren't making a profit. Are you saying that the
>mom & pop stores can't re-open now that they can compete again?

Same as above.

Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

"Doug Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> OK, please lets try and get it right - the word is "fallacy".

Correction noted and appreciated.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Bixby, Oklahoma for one...
>

So what you're saying is that Wal Mart or Home Depot moved into Bixby, drove
out all of the mom-n-pop businesses (which has been demonstrated to be a
falisy, but we'll assume it for the sake of the discussion), and then having
successfully closed down all of these salt of the earth businesses, pulled
out of Bixby themselves?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Henry St.Pierre wrote:

>
> I bought a Porter Cable belt sander at Home Depot last year and the stupid
> damn store didn't have and Porter Cable belts. I had to buy the 3M belts
> they carried. Really pissed me off.Porter Cable sander -Poorter Cable
> belts. 3M sander - 3M belts. Klingspoor sander - Klingspoor belts. That's
> the way it should be.

I know! I sure have a hard time finding GM gasoline.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 20:31:52 -0700, Argon <[email protected]> wrote:

>as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
>Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
>just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
>I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
>to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>
>So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
>some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
>one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
>spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
>be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>
>I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
>guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>
>None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
>spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
>course.
>
>Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
>irrelevance.

Well, that certainly helps explain why their stock price hasn't moved for
the last 4+ years. :-(

Buy high, sell low, that's *my* investment strategy. Well, maybe not
strategy so much as reality.





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 20:31:52 -0700, Argon wrote:

> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>
> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell.

I don't know why everybody complains about this--the Ryobi spindles work
fine, they're about as cheap as spindles get (try to find another set for
less), and they're in standard sizes--there's nothing magic about the
Ridgid that makes it require a special spindle.

> So I ask him if they will
> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>
> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?

Would you be this upset if those spindles came in a package that said
"Norton" or "3M" on it instead of "Ryobi"?

> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
> course.

You won't find them on the Ridgid web site either.

> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
> irrelevance.

I'm sorry, while I loathe Home Depot this seems to me to be complaining
for the sake of complaining. If you think Ridgid should go into the
sandpaper business you really should take the matter up with them.

Main thing Klingspor gets you over Ryobi is choice of grits.

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 20:24:00 -0800, MUSTANGS7981 wrote:

> How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)

How about you take that up with Warner Brothers. Or are you unfamiliar
with the cartoon character "Bugs Bunny", one of whose catchphrases is
"what a maroon"? Note--not "what a moron", he clearly and distinctly
pronounces the long-double-oh sound.

>> Argon wrote:
>> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
>> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
>> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
>> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
>> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>>
>> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
>> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
>> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
>> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
>> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>>
>> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
>> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>>
>> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
>> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
>> course.
>>
>> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
>> irrelevance.

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 21:46:25 -0800, Steve wrote:

> Argon wrote:
>> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
>> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
>> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
>> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
>> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>>
>> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
>> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
>> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
>> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
>> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>>
>> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
>> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>>
>> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
>> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
>> course.
>>
>> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
>> irrelevance.
>
> Are you talking about the RIDGID Oscillating Edge/Belt Spindle Sander,
> Model EB4424? It uses (according to the Home Depot web site) a 4 x 24"
> belt, of the type used on hand-held belt sanders. Should be available
> just about anywhere (except Home Depot of course!)

It uses a belt with the belt adapter but it also uses standard 4-1/2"
spindles in various diameters. Sears (across the street from HD here) has
belts in stock that will fit (so does HD for that matter) but I got a
bargain box from Klingspor which gives me more belts than I'm probably
ever going to use.

> --Steve

I'm not sure that means anything. In the Chicago suburban
area, going to a store in a nearby suburb can easily be a
half hour drive. Gurnee is a suburb of Chicago. But it's
also about 40 miles north.

And Wal Marts have closed after just a few years when they
felt the store volume wasn't sufficient. Unfortunately the
small businesses that closed don't generally come right back.

Nova wrote:
> Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
>> Bixby, Oklahoma for one...
>>
>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:49:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Where do you see Wal Mart and Home Depot pull out of town after they
>>> have
>>> "decimated" them?
>
> Bixby is a suburb of Tulsa. It looks like Home Depot still has eight
> stores in the Tulsa area.
>

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 20:23:31 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:41:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>So what you're saying is that Wal Mart or Home Depot moved into Bixby, drove
>>out all of the mom-n-pop businesses (which has been demonstrated to be a
>>falisy, but we'll assume it for the sake of the discussion), and then having
>>successfully closed down all of these salt of the earth businesses, pulled
>>out of Bixby themselves?
>
> I still think it's amazing how many people completely misunderstand
> capitalism. Walmart and HD do not drive *ANYONE* out of business. If
> anything, it's the CUSTOMERS who choose, of their own free will, to
> shop at Walmart and HD, that do it. Walmart and HD don't herd
> customers at gunpoint into their stores, they simply offer lower
> prices, because of their size and buying power, and people make the
> CHOICE to shop there. So anyone who claims that Walmart and HD drive
> anyone out of business is a bald-faced liar.

Says the Wal-Mart apologist. Kind of hard to compete with an operation
that is several orders of magnitude larger than yours unless you can find
some way other than price to differentiate yourself, and that is
difficult with mass-market consumer goods.

> And if they moved out of Bixby, it's likely they couldn't make enough
> money to make a profit, what do you expect them to do? They leave and
> anyone else who wants to start a business again is welcome to.
>
> It's called competition. It's the cornerstone of the economic system of
> capitalism.

Which system in its unfettered state proved to be an unmitigated disaster
hence the Sherman Antitrust Act and other legislation.

--

--John

to email, dial "usenet" and validate

(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 17:10:17 -0500, Locutus wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 20:23:31 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:
>>
>> Says the Wal-Mart apologist. Kind of hard to compete with an operation
>> that is several orders of magnitude larger than yours unless you can find
>> some way other than price to differentiate yourself, and that is
>> difficult with mass-market consumer goods.
>>
>
> Maybe we need federal regulation on the price of the toilet paper and power
> drills?

Or maybe we just need to break up Wal-Mart.

--

--John

to email, dial "usenet" and validate

(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:46:00 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:

> On 6 Dec 2006 23:30:25 GMT, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Or maybe we just need to break up Wal-Mart.
>
> Maybe you just need to grow up.

Insulted me twice for that one. I must be doing someting right.

--

--John

to email, dial "usenet" and validate

(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:45:39 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:

> On 6 Dec 2006 21:30:19 GMT, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Says the Wal-Mart apologist.
>
> No, says the person with the grip on reality. Do try to keep up.
>
>>Kind of hard to compete with an operation
>>that is several orders of magnitude larger than yours unless you can find
>>some way other than price to differentiate yourself, and that is
>>difficult with mass-market consumer goods.
>
> Funny, plenty of places find ways to differentiate themselves, mostly
> by offering superior customer service, etc. that Walmart and similar
> stores do not offer. How do you think Walmart got to be the 800-lb
> gorilla they are today? They started out as a small business and grew
> because they were successful.
>
> You people seem to have a problem with success.
>
>>Which system in its unfettered state proved to be an unmitigated disaster
>>hence the Sherman Antitrust Act and other legislation.
>
> And when Walmart gets to be a monopoly, you be sure to let us know.
> Otherwise, keep your annoying liberal whining to yourself.

<plonk>

--

--John

to email, dial "usenet" and validate

(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:

: Better service is certainly one way that small operations can compete with the
: big box stores. Some small businesses understand that, some don't -- and it's
: the latter, IME, that can't survive competition with the big boxes.


Here's a couple of articles that I found interesting:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapper.html


The first is the story of what happened to Vlasic pickles (company
went bankrupt after getting a close relationship with
Walmart), and the second is about one company that decided
not to sell through Walmart, and why.

I agree that ultimately it's the customer that decided whether a business
gets his money or not, but there are other factors at work, including
ignorance on the part of the customer (to take a group relevant example,
tools with plastic innards instead of metal ones have advantages and
disadvantages, and the typical homeowner doesn't know about them), and
Walmart's ability, due to its sher size, to pressure suppliers
to reduce costs.

-- Andy Barss

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:12:04 -0800, A.M. Wood wrote:

> Just Wondering wrote:
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> > "Robert Haar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >
>> >>You can't be serious. Would you extend this to drill bits, router
>> >>bits, saw
>> >>blades and all other expendable materials and accessories?
>> >
>> >
>> > Why not? Only way you can be sure the drill bits match properly.
>> >
>> >
>> Yep. That's why you need a Campbell's can opener to open your
>> Campbell's soup cans, a generic can opener just won't do the job right.
>
>
> It is not all that uncommon for companies of garbage products like rigid
> & ryobi to use oddball sizes that necessitate using their sanding
> attachments. Much different than Campbells that packages its products
> to work with standard opening devices.

While it may "not be all that uncommon", in this case your view is
considerably in error. Sleeve length on the Ridgid is 4-1/2", sleeve
diameter is 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 inches. The Ryobi sleeve package
contains 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, 2, and 3 inch 80 grit 4-1/2" long sleeves.
The only way in which it "doesn't fit" the Ridgid is that it has an extra
sleeve larger than the largest platen provided with the Ridgid. Further,
those sizes are more or less standard, Jet, Delta, and many other
companies sell sanders that take those same sleeve sizes.

Since you clearly have nothing to offer except a dig at a couple of
products that you clearly have never used and likely never even _seen_, I
am curious as to why you posted a response at all.

By the way, if that sander is any example, then Ridgid products are hardly
"garbage".

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:02:54 -0800, A.M. Wood wrote:

> J. Clarke wrote:
>>that take those same sleeve sizes.
>>
>> Since you clearly have nothing to offer except a dig at a couple of
>> products that you clearly have never used and likely never even _seen_, I
>> am curious as to why you posted a response at all.
>>
>> By the way, if that sander is any example, then Ridgid products are hardly
>> "garbage".
>>
>> --
>> --John
>> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
> Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. I've owned products from both of
> the manufacturers and have encountered the specific problem I cited. I
> also own (note the tense has changed from past to present) products
> from other manufacturers. They are not garbage and accept common sized
> fittings and tools.
>
> Don't shoot the messenger pal. The stuff comming out of chaiwan ain't
> that great AND it's killing american jobs to boot. That's a lose lose
> in my book. Not sure why all you folks spend so much time cheering on
> what is inevitably your own economic demise. That's foolish in my book

So you won't back off on your contention that the Ridgid spindle sander in
my basement won't take the Ryobi sleeves that I was just using on it in
my basement?

Are you calling me a liar or are just illiterate?

--

--John

to email, dial "usenet" and validate

(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 05:12:19 -0800, A.M. Wood wrote:

> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> So you won't back off on your contention that the Ridgid spindle sander in
>> my basement won't take the Ryobi sleeves that I was just using on it in
>> my basement?
>>
>> Are you calling me a liar or are just illiterate?
>>
>> --
>> --John
>> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
> First, proofreading is critical when your gonna be calling someone
> stupid.
>
> Second, as far as literacy goes, I can't seem to find any message where
> I'm calling you anything, let alone "liar." If I had wished to call
> you a name I would have done so explicitly. So stop reading what is
> neither stated nor implied. You're wrong and that, well, makes you
> look foolish.
>
> Lastly, no need to start the ad-hominem attacks just because you don't
> agree with my assertions. That's for kiddies and this forum is really
> intended for adults.

<plonk>

--

--John

to email, dial "usenet" and validate

(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On 5 Dec 2006 05:55:01 -0800, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>Yup, they move into town, kill off the blood and guts that went into
>the brick & mortar family owned stores... and move on.
>
>r

This strategy was perfected by WalMart 20 years ago when they
decimated rural communities and then abandoned them.


===========================================================================
Chris

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> How does that look like "they want a fight"?
>
>

When Target announced they were contemplating building across the highway
from a Wal-Mart up north, we were somewhat amazed, yet they said that
"facing the competition" was something they liked to do. First year the lot
was generally uncrowded, but it looks like the numbers are picking up.
Nicer store, too. Aisles allow two carts to pass in opposite directions
rather than being crowded and plagued with end caps.

On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 02:28:22 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You're kind of slow aren't you? The problem isn't with success, it's when
>that success becomes so all-encompassing that it effectively obliterates any
>chance of other little start-ups from becoming successful. Or, when that
>success makes it more difficult than it should be for little start-ups from
>having any real chance of success.

Funny, there are all kinds of other successful businesses out there,
Walmart certainly hasn't harmed them in the least. Heck, locally
there are small businesses in the SAME SHOPPING CENTER AS WALMART that
are doing just fine and carry many of the same products that Walmart
carries.

See, here's a news flash for you. When you start a business, there is
no guarantee that you're going to succeed. In fact, statistically,
the majority of small businesses fail within the first two years and
that has nothing to do with Walmart, it has to do with the nature of
small business and economics.

Too young to watch Bugs Bunny on Satuday mornings, eh?

todd

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)
> Argon wrote:
>> as Bugs would say. FWW had a review of spindle sanders in their Tools &
>> Shops issue. The $200.00 RIDGID took Best Overall *and* Best Value. It
>> just so happens that I'm interested in making some bandsaw boxes, and
>> I've had my eye on the RIDGID one for a long time, so I had to run out
>> to Home Depot and buy one. :-)
>>
>> So I ask the guy where the sanding spindles are, because I want to get
>> some extras. He says, "We don't carry any spindles except we have this
>> one pack" -- and he drags out an old shopworn plastic bag of sanding
>> spindles for the Ryobi, which they also sell. So I ask him if they will
>> be getting some in, and he says, "No, we don't carry them at all."
>>
>> I'm thinking why on earth would somebody sell a sander with a lifetime
>> guarantee and not sell the sanding spindles for it?
>>
>> None were to be found on the HD web site when I searched for "sanding
>> spindles" or "sanding sleeves." Klingspors has a wide variety, of
>> course.
>>
>> Just another chapter in the story of the long, slow slide of HD into
>> irrelevance.
>

On 5 Dec 2006 15:58:02 -0800, "Lou" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Falisy my ass. I see it happen quite a bit.

Then please show us just *ONE* documented example of HD or Walmart
forcing customers to shop in their stores. Just one. Put up or stick
a sock in it.

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:47:45 -0500, dripping <[email protected]> wrote:

>> OK, please lets try and get it right - the word is "fallacy".
>
>Or could it be a falsity?

No, that's what under-developed women wear under their blouses.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On 6 Dec 2006 23:30:25 GMT, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Or maybe we just need to break up Wal-Mart.

Maybe you just need to grow up.

> OK, please lets try and get it right - the word is "fallacy".

Or could it be a falsity?

Not a Bugs Bunny fan, I take it.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)

Bixby, Oklahoma for one...

On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:49:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Chris Dubea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2006 05:55:01 -0800, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Mark & Juanita wrote:
>> >
>> >Yup, they move into town, kill off the blood and guts that went into
>> >the brick & mortar family owned stores... and move on.
>> >
>> >r
>>
>> This strategy was perfected by WalMart 20 years ago when they
>> decimated rural communities and then abandoned them.
>>
>
>Where do you see Wal Mart and Home Depot pull out of town after they have
>"decimated" them?


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:12:15 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
<[email protected]> wrote:

>-It is a fact that Wal Mart moved into Bixby.

Gotcha.

>-It is a fact that shortly there after, a large number of the small
>privately owned retailers (Mom and Pop shops if you will) located in
>and near the town closed up shop and ceased to operate as a business
>entity.

Because their customers chose, of thier own free will, to shop
somewhere else. The mom & pop stores closed because they couldn't
compete. Competition is the cornerstone of capitalism.

>-It is a fact, that less than 5 years after opening, Wal Mart pulled
>up stakes and left.

Likely because they weren't making a profit. Are you saying that the
mom & pop stores can't re-open now that they can compete again?

On 6 Dec 2006 21:30:19 GMT, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Says the Wal-Mart apologist.

No, says the person with the grip on reality. Do try to keep up.

>Kind of hard to compete with an operation
>that is several orders of magnitude larger than yours unless you can find
>some way other than price to differentiate yourself, and that is
>difficult with mass-market consumer goods.

Funny, plenty of places find ways to differentiate themselves, mostly
by offering superior customer service, etc. that Walmart and similar
stores do not offer. How do you think Walmart got to be the 800-lb
gorilla they are today? They started out as a small business and grew
because they were successful.

You people seem to have a problem with success.

>Which system in its unfettered state proved to be an unmitigated disaster
>hence the Sherman Antitrust Act and other legislation.

And when Walmart gets to be a monopoly, you be sure to let us know.
Otherwise, keep your annoying liberal whining to yourself.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 20:24:00 -0800, MUSTANGS7981 wrote:
>
> > How about they are "morons" not the color maroon :-)
>
> How about you take that up with Warner Brothers. Or are you unfamiliar
> with the cartoon character "Bugs Bunny", one of whose catchphrases is
> "what a maroon"? Note--not "what a moron", he clearly and distinctly
> pronounces the long-double-oh sound.
>

Right from the wabbit's mouth:

http://www.earthstation1.com/WBCartoonFiles/WB_Wavs/maroon.wav

B.