electric work truck

On 8/3/2017 11:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>>> parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>>> hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>>> and it's usually all-electric.
>>
>> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
>> free fuel.
>
> I don't see how Clarke's statement supports your assertion.

Nor did I say that. It is what I've heard in conversation about
electric cars and subsidies. Just a comment from my observations over
time. Want names?


>
> A company may actually disagree with your position on energy and climate
> and choose to offer their employees a benefit that supports their
> position on energy and climate. Is that illegal or immoral in your
> view?

Did not say that did I? Any time a corporation gives privileges to some
and not others there is potential for bad blood.
>
>> Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>> throw stones at my car parked there.
>
> Really? Why would you be afraid of that?

The haves versus the have nots. Human instincts can kick in. M company
paid for all of my gas. I never told anyone else as it was none of
their business.
>
>>
>>> The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>>> actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>>> practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>>> CEO drives a Tesla.
>>
>> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
>> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
>
> Ah, pejorative noted.

Good. I would not want you to miss it. A lot of people are willing to
pay a premium to be green. That is their decision. Ask Al Gore.


>
>>
>> The Tesla is a cool car and yes, if I had an extra 100k I'd get one. No
>> justification needed other than I want one. I'd still need a second car
>> for longer trips though, the range is good but not so easy for a 600
>> mile day. Or staying at hotels with no chargers.
>
> As time passes, range anxiety will become less of an issue. However,
> one can always rent a car for the weekend/long trips - for much less cost
> than keeping a second one around.
>
> And clearly, there are differences for folks that live in rural settings
> vs. those who live in dense urban environments - there's no one-size-fits
> all solution to transportation, energy supplies or the environment.
>

IMO, electrics are just an interim anyway. It will be 10, 25, maybe 40
years before an alternate is invented and made practical. Meantime, I
don't think taxpayer dollars should subsidize the purchase of a new car.
I also wonder where all those batteries will be 40 years from now.

On 8/1/2017 10:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>>>
>>>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>>>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>>
>>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>>> driving too exciting for most people
>>>
>>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>>
>>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>>> apply the weight forward
>>>
>>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>>
>>
>>
>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>
> Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
> Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
> gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
> replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
> lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
> vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
> engine vehicles.
>
> Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
> it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
> and horrible for the environment.
>
> Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
> a giant scam being played on the public.
>
>

Follow the money. :~)

Current electric cars are good for the buyer but not the rest of the world.

I have read that the UK is going to be totally electric in 20 years with
no gas vehicles allowed. And Maserati is focusing on all electric for
every vehicle after the last two designs are implemented.

I see it will handle long boards / fence posts... Cool.
Around here I have seen under truck racks that tote long stuff.
Easier to drop and drive off than limit on the roof racks.

Never saw a budget price on the thing. Must be high.

Martin

On 7/31/2017 6:31 PM, ads wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 10:45:33 -0700, Electric Comet
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> no idea on the price yet but i really like the idea of an all electric
>> work truck
>>
>> price will be critical to its success
>>
>> low low maintenance costs are really appealing and more storage space
>> with a frunk and this one has the front to rear pass thru for storing
>> 12 foot long material inside the truck and over 15 feet with tailgate
>> down
>>
>> that is a strong selling point right there
>>
>> but this claim has to be proven because i cannot see how
>>
>> quote
>> 72 Sheets of 1/2 Plywood Fit in the Rear Cargo Area
>>
>> ok i guess if a 10 inches or so hangs off the tailgate it might do
>>
>> i guesstimate the back of driver seat to rear is about 46 inches
>> plus the tailgate is 40 inches
>>
>> i like the simplicity of the design
>>
>> http://bollingermotors.com
>>
>>
>
> On the photos page
> http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
> the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 15:49:41 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> writes:
>>On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>>> parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>>> hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>>> and it's usually all-electric.
>>
>>Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
>>free fuel.
>
> I don't see how Clarke's statement supports your assertion.
>
> A company may actually disagree with your position on energy and climate
>and choose to offer their employees a benefit that supports their
>position on energy and climate. Is that illegal or immoral in your
>view?
>
>>Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>>and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>>throw stones at my car parked there.
>
> Really? Why would you be afraid of that?
>
Possibly because that's what he would do???
>>
>>> The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>>> actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>>> practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>>> CEO drives a Tesla.
>>
>>I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
>>savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
>
>Ah, pejorative noted.
>
>>
>>The Tesla is a cool car and yes, if I had an extra 100k I'd get one. No
>>justification needed other than I want one. I'd still need a second car
>>for longer trips though, the range is good but not so easy for a 600
>>mile day. Or staying at hotels with no chargers.
>
>As time passes, range anxiety will become less of an issue. However,
>one can always rent a car for the weekend/long trips - for much less cost
>than keeping a second one around.
>
>And clearly, there are differences for folks that live in rural settings
>vs. those who live in dense urban environments - there's no one-size-fits
>all solution to transportation, energy supplies or the environment.
About 90% of my driving needs could be met with current all-electric
vehicles. The other 10% would be satisfied by a plug-in hybryd, or
even a simple hybrid, or a car like the Volt with the range extender
engine.
SWince I've virtually always had 2 vehicles (or more) my gasoline
truck could handle anything the electric couldn't - and renting short
term when I want something more comfortable than the truck or need to
take passengers is very affordable.

Unloke MOST of those complaining about electric cars, I have actually
owned and driven (and built) one.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 9:20:34 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:50:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 1:39:50 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >> >
> >> > On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> > > On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >> > >> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
> >> > >>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
> >> > >> driving too exciting for most people
> >> > >>
> >> > >> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
> >> > >>
> >> > >> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
> >> > >> apply the weight forward
> >> > >>
> >> > >> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
> >> > > powered truck. The payback is just not there.
> >> >
> >> > Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
> >> > Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
> >> > gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
> >> > replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
> >> > lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
> >> > vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
> >> > engine vehicles.
> >> >
> >> > Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
> >> > it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
> >> > and horrible for the environment.
> >> >
> >> > Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
> >> > a giant scam being played on the public.
> >>
> >> Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
> >> months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
> >> hybrid.
> >
> >If your electric bill isn't "noticeably higher" then either they've lowered your rates or
> >you've reduced usage in some other area.
> >
> >It doesn't matter if it's hybrid, a refrigerator or even a cell phone charger. If you've added
> >anything, then you'll increase your usage, and therefore your bill, unless the additional
> >use - or cost - is offset in some manner.
> No, a hybrid does not HAVE to be plugged in - depending on driving
> conditions. It allows the engine to run at it's most efficient, in
> atkinson cycle, keeping the battery charged with help from
> regenerative braking, while the battery supplies power for peak loads,
> so the engine never has to work in "full output" mode which is very
> hard on fuel compared to optimized running.

What a totally wasted comment. Why would J. Clark say "my electric bill
isn't noticeably higher than it was before the hybrid" if *he* wasn't
plugging his in? _Of course_ a person's electricity bill wouldn't be impacted
if they never plugged in the new device, but if that was the case they wouldn't
comment on their before and after bill. The mere fact that he made the
comparison indicates that *he* plugs *his* in.

>
> You can bitch and complain about electrics and hybrids being a scam,
> foisted on you by "libtards" all you like - the REAL FACTS, not the
> "fake news" is they DO make sense. The only real problem is if
> everyine started running electrics and plug-on hybrids the North
> American Grid, as it stanrs - totally neglected for the last several
> decades, would be totally inadequate. and powerplants would require
> the type of polution controls that cars have had for decades.

Why are you lecturing me? I didn't bitch about anything related to
electrics and hybrids being a scam. Go back and read my post. I responded
to what J. Clark said about his electric bill - I commented on his words,
not on his car.

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:35:34 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/3/2017 11:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> writes:
>> >> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>> >>> parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>> >>> hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>> >>> and it's usually all-electric.
>> >>
>> >> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
>> >> free fuel.
>> >
>> > I don't see how Clarke's statement supports your assertion.
>>
>> Nor did I say that. It is what I've heard in conversation about
>> electric cars and subsidies. Just a comment from my observations over
>> time. Want names?
>>
>>
>> >
>> > A company may actually disagree with your position on energy and climate
>> > and choose to offer their employees a benefit that supports their
>> > position on energy and climate. Is that illegal or immoral in your
>> > view?
>>
>> Did not say that did I? Any time a corporation gives privileges to some
>> and not others there is potential for bad blood.
>> >
>> >> Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>> >> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>> >> throw stones at my car parked there.
>> >
>> > Really? Why would you be afraid of that?
>>
>> The haves versus the have nots. Human instincts can kick in. M company
>> paid for all of my gas. I never told anyone else as it was none of
>> their business.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>> >>> actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>> >>> practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>> >>> CEO drives a Tesla.
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
>> >> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
>> >
>> > Ah, pejorative noted.
>>
>> Good. I would not want you to miss it. A lot of people are willing to
>> pay a premium to be green. That is their decision. Ask Al Gore.
>
>http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA679.html
>
>o The past year, Gore's home energy use averaged 19,241 kilowatt hours (kWh)
> every month, compared to the U.S. household average of 901 kWh per month.
>o Gore guzzles more electricity in one year than the average American family
> uses in 21 years.
>o In September of 2016, Gore's home consumed 30,993 kWh in just one month - as
> much energy as a typical American family burns in 34 months.
>o During the last 12 months, Gore devoured 66,159 kWh of electricity just heating
> his pool. That is enough energy to power six average U.S. households for a year.
>o From August 2016 through July 2017, Gore spent almost $22,000 on electricity bills.
>o Gore paid an estimated $60,000 to install 33 solar panels. Those solar panels produce
> an average of 1,092 kWh per month, only 5.7% of Gore's typical monthly energy consumption.


That's because Gore isn't anything close to being green (with anything
but envy) and is a typical politician. (I won't label him either left
or right, conservative or liberal, democrat or republican, because he
is most likely neither, in either case.

On 8/2/2017 1:39 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

>>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>>
>> Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>> Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>> gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>> replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>> lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>> vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>> engine vehicles.
>>
>> Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>> it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>> and horrible for the environment.
>>
>> Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>> a giant scam being played on the public.
>
> Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
> months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
> hybrid.
>
>

Plug in hybrid? I don't think they are as bad as the pure electrics.
Smaller battery and capturing power from braking.

The biggest joke foisted off on the public was the Chevy Volt with a 24
mile range. You pay a premium for the car and it is only useful for
short trips.

I'm curious how well the climate control works in both 0 degrees and 100
degrees. My car will be a comfy 72 degrees but to do that with battery
power is going to suck a lot of miles from the total range. Typical car
AC is 30,000 BTU and that sucks a lot of power. So does electric heat.

The acceleration of the electrics looks like fun though.

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:46:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400
>> ads wrote:
>>
>>> On the photos page
>>> http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
>>> the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>
>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make driving
>> too exciting for most people
>>
>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>
>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would apply
>> the weight forward
>>
>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>
>
>
>Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>powered truck. The payback is just not there.
When I was a kid back in the late sixties, the local electrical motor
rewinding shop/industrial electrician had an electric box-van they
used as a local service and delivery vehicle.

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:46:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400
>> ads wrote:
>>
>>> On the photos page
>>> http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
>>> the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>
>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make driving
>> too exciting for most people
>>
>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>
>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would apply
>> the weight forward
>>
>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>
>
>
>Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>powered truck. The payback is just not there.

+1

[email protected] wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:08:14 +0000, Spalted Walt
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
> >> > parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
> >> > hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
> >> > and it's usually all-electric.
> >>
> >> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
> >> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
> >> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
> >> throw stones at my car parked there.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
> >> > actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
> >> > practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
> >> > CEO drives a Tesla.
> >>
> >> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
> >> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
> >
> >Many are just obnoxious assholes.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JPZskYKUvY
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dgzjsDE8X0
>
> Are you green?

No, just a privileged Caucasian.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/137/117/41b.jpg

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 10:57:34 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 18:17:56 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 9:20:34 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:50:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 1:39:50 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> >> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> >> > > On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >> >> > >> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
> >> >> > >>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
> >> >> > >> driving too exciting for most people
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
> >> >> > >> apply the weight forward
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
> >> >> > > powered truck. The payback is just not there.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
> >> >> > Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
> >> >> > gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
> >> >> > replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
> >> >> > lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
> >> >> > vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
> >> >> > engine vehicles.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
> >> >> > it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
> >> >> > and horrible for the environment.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
> >> >> > a giant scam being played on the public.
> >> >>
> >> >> Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
> >> >> months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
> >> >> hybrid.
> >> >
> >> >If your electric bill isn't "noticeably higher" then either they've lowered your rates or
> >> >you've reduced usage in some other area.
> >> >
> >> >It doesn't matter if it's hybrid, a refrigerator or even a cell phone charger. If you've added
> >> >anything, then you'll increase your usage, and therefore your bill, unless the additional
> >> >use - or cost - is offset in some manner.
> >> No, a hybrid does not HAVE to be plugged in - depending on driving
> >> conditions. It allows the engine to run at it's most efficient, in
> >> atkinson cycle, keeping the battery charged with help from
> >> regenerative braking, while the battery supplies power for peak loads,
> >> so the engine never has to work in "full output" mode which is very
> >> hard on fuel compared to optimized running.
> >
> >What a totally wasted comment. Why would J. Clark say "my electric bill
> >isn't noticeably higher than it was before the hybrid" if *he* wasn't
> >plugging his in? _Of course_ a person's electricity bill wouldn't be impacted
> >if they never plugged in the new device, but if that was the case they wouldn't
> >comment on their before and after bill. The mere fact that he made the
> >comparison indicates that *he* plugs *his* in.
> >
>
> If he plugs it in and the battery is fully charged it won't take ANY
> power. Simple.

Yep, I'm sure that has happened every single time he plugged it in. Never once used
any electricity. Yep. Simple.

Besides, it will use some electricity. You capitalized "any" implying zero current. Wanna bet?

> >>
> >> You can bitch and complain about electrics and hybrids being a scam,
> >> foisted on you by "libtards" all you like - the REAL FACTS, not the
> >> "fake news" is they DO make sense. The only real problem is if
> >> everyine started running electrics and plug-on hybrids the North
> >> American Grid, as it stanrs - totally neglected for the last several
> >> decades, would be totally inadequate. and powerplants would require
> >> the type of polution controls that cars have had for decades.
> >
> >Why are you lecturing me? I didn't bitch about anything related to
> >electrics and hybrids being a scam. Go back and read my post. I responded
> >to what J. Clark said about his electric bill - I commented on his words,
> >not on his car.
> Cool your jets. I replied to the THREAD.

No, you replied to me. You even used the word "you".

The "thread" can't post, only people can. If you are going to voice your opinion on
the scam issue - and use the word "you" - reply to some who feels it's a scam.

(Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Spalted Walt <[email protected]> writes:
> >Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
> >> > parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
> >> > hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
> >> > and it's usually all-electric.
> >>
> >> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
> >> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
> >> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
> >> throw stones at my car parked there.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
> >> > actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
> >> > practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
> >> > CEO drives a Tesla.
> >>
> >> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
> >> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
> >
> >Many are just obnoxious assholes.
>
> Many _anything_, including conservatives and liberals, are obnoxious assholes. It's
> endemic in the human condition. That doesn't justify blanket labels.

Precisely why I didn't say *All* are obnoxious assholes.

On 8/3/2017 2:53 PM, [email protected] wrote:

>>
>> A company may actually disagree with your position on energy and climate
>> and choose to offer their employees a benefit that supports their
>> position on energy and climate. Is that illegal or immoral in your
>> view?
>>
>>> Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>>> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>>> throw stones at my car parked there.
>>
>> Really? Why would you be afraid of that?
>>
> Possibly because that's what he would do???

Why would I do that? I've had free gas from three employers since 1978
so I have nothing to be jealous of.

I thought you could come up with better comments than that.

Spalted Walt <[email protected]> writes:
>Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>> > parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>> > hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>> > and it's usually all-electric.
>>
>> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
>> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>> throw stones at my car parked there.
>>
>> >
>> > The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>> > actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>> > practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>> > CEO drives a Tesla.
>>
>> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
>> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
>
>Many are just obnoxious assholes.

Many _anything_, including conservatives and liberals, are obnoxious assholes. It's
endemic in the human condition. That doesn't justify blanket labels.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> I see it will handle long boards / fence posts... Cool.
> Around here I have seen under truck racks that tote long stuff.
> Easier to drop and drive off than limit on the roof racks.
>
> Never saw a budget price on the thing. Must be high.

They don't have a manufacturing partner yet so don't know what the price
will be, but they're targeting the $60k ballpark.

> Martin
>
> On 7/31/2017 6:31 PM, ads wrote:
> > On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 10:45:33 -0700, Electric Comet
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> no idea on the price yet but i really like the idea of an all electric
> >> work truck
> >>
> >> price will be critical to its success
> >>
> >> low low maintenance costs are really appealing and more storage space
> >> with a frunk and this one has the front to rear pass thru for storing
> >> 12 foot long material inside the truck and over 15 feet with tailgate
> >> down
> >>
> >> that is a strong selling point right there
> >>
> >> but this claim has to be proven because i cannot see how
> >>
> >> quote
> >> 72 Sheets of 1/2 Plywood Fit in the Rear Cargo Area
> >>
> >> ok i guess if a 10 inches or so hangs off the tailgate it might do
> >>
> >> i guesstimate the back of driver seat to rear is about 46 inches
> >> plus the tailgate is 40 inches
> >>
> >> i like the simplicity of the design
> >>
> >> http://bollingermotors.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> > On the photos page
> > http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
> > the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
> >

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
> >>
> >>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
> >>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
> >>
> >> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
> >> driving too exciting for most people
> >>
> >> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
> >>
> >> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
> >> apply the weight forward
> >>
> >> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
> >>
> >
> >
> > Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
> > powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>
> Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
> Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
> gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
> replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
> lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
> vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
> engine vehicles.
>
> Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
> it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
> and horrible for the environment.
>
> Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
> a giant scam being played on the public.

Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
hybrid.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 8/2/2017 1:39 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> >>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
> >>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
> >>
> >> Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
> >> Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
> >> gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
> >> replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
> >> lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
> >> vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
> >> engine vehicles.
> >>
> >> Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
> >> it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
> >> and horrible for the environment.
> >>
> >> Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
> >> a giant scam being played on the public.
> >
> > Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
> > months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
> > hybrid.
> >
> >
>
> Plug in hybrid? I don't think they are as bad as the pure electrics.
> Smaller battery and capturing power from braking.

What, you think that pure electrics don't have regen braking?

> The biggest joke foisted off on the public was the Chevy Volt with a 24
> mile range. You pay a premium for the car and it is only useful for
> short trips.

That's Ford's models, the Volt has more like 50 mile range. My Ford has 21
mile range. It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
and it's usually all-electric.

The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
CEO drives a Tesla.

> I'm curious how well the climate control works in both 0 degrees and 100
> degrees. My car will be a comfy 72 degrees but to do that with battery
> power is going to suck a lot of miles from the total range. Typical car
> AC is 30,000 BTU and that sucks a lot of power. So does electric heat.

The AC seems to use less power than the heat. In the winter I typically
run out of battery just as I'm pulling into the parking lot in the morning.
In the summer I typically have about 6 miles left when I get home.

> The acceleration of the electrics looks like fun though.

All around my hybrid is quite pleasant.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> >
> >> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
> > parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
> > hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
> > and it's usually all-electric.
>
> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
> throw stones at my car parked there.

Anybody who throws stones has to get over a ten foot high fence and past
the security patrols. And if they're an employee they won't be one much
longer--there is full video surveillance and the company does not tolerate
vandalism by its employees.

> > The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
> > actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
> > practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
> > CEO drives a Tesla.
>
> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.

It's not just fuel cost. Plug-in hybrids are very low maintenance. When I
got mine, used, I changed all the fluids and filters on the general
principle that I didn't know with certainty what maintenance had been
performed by the previous owner. That done, the next maintenance item is
going to be an oil change some time in 2019.

There's also a comfort factor. In a hybrid the loudest noise you hear is
typically tires on the road. And in the winter heat is instant--no waiting
for the engine to warm up.

And then there's coming out to the car on a hot or cold day and finding
that it has run the heater or air conditioner for the past half hour and
was nicely comfortable.

> The Tesla is a cool car and yes, if I had an extra 100k I'd get one. No
> justification needed other than I want one. I'd still need a second car
> for longer trips though, the range is good but not so easy for a 600
> mile day. Or staying at hotels with no chargers.

I don't think that's an issue for the CEO. We have two big Sikorskis
hangared on the property and a jet at the airport.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 07:59:43 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> On 8/2/2017 1:39 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >> >>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
> >> >>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
> >> >>
> >> >> Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
> >> >> Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
> >> >> gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
> >> >> replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
> >> >> lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
> >> >> vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
> >> >> engine vehicles.
> >> >>
> >> >> Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
> >> >> it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
> >> >> and horrible for the environment.
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
> >> >> a giant scam being played on the public.
> >> >
> >> > Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
> >> > months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
> >> > hybrid.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Plug in hybrid? I don't think they are as bad as the pure electrics.
> >> Smaller battery and capturing power from braking.
> >
> >What, you think that pure electrics don't have regen braking?
>
> Where did I say they don't????
> >
> >> The biggest joke foisted off on the public was the Chevy Volt with a 24
> >> mile range. You pay a premium for the car and it is only useful for
> >> short trips.
> >
> >That's Ford's models, the Volt has more like 50 mile range. My Ford has 21
> >mile range. It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
> >parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
> >hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
> >and it's usually all-electric.
>
> What ford has a 50 mile range? My ElectraMobile had a 50 mile intown
> range back in 1978

Who said anything about a Ford with a 50 mile range?

> >The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
> >actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
> >practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
> >CEO drives a Tesla.
> And the Volt has range extensin technology.
> >
> >> I'm curious how well the climate control works in both 0 degrees and 100
> >> degrees. My car will be a comfy 72 degrees but to do that with battery
> >> power is going to suck a lot of miles from the total range. Typical car
> >> AC is 30,000 BTU and that sucks a lot of power. So does electric heat.
> >
> >The AC seems to use less power than the heat. In the winter I typically
> >run out of battery just as I'm pulling into the parking lot in the morning.
> >In the summer I typically have about 6 miles left when I get home.
> >
> >> The acceleration of the electrics looks like fun though.
> >
> >All around my hybrid is quite pleasant.

Looks like a cross between a Land Rover and an IH Scout!

I may have to stop in there and take a look one of these days... they are
located near where I hunt. A loaner to test out as a hunting vehicle? ;~)

On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400
> ads wrote:
>
>> On the photos page
>> http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
>> the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>
> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make driving
> too exciting for most people
>
> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>
> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would apply
> the weight forward
>
> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>


Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
powered truck. The payback is just not there.

On 8/3/2017 8:33 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>> parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>> hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily
>> commute
>> and it's usually all-electric.
>
> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
> throw stones at my car parked there.
>
>>
>> The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>> actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>> practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>> CEO drives a Tesla.
>
> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
>
> The Tesla is a cool car and yes, if I had an extra 100k I'd get one. No
> justification needed other than I want one. I'd still need a second car
> for longer trips though, the range is good but not so easy for a 600
> mile day. Or staying at hotels with no chargers.
>
>
>
If you don't mind waiting in a looooong line of people in front of you
the latest Tesla appears to be quite inexpensive compared to the first
models. $30k range.

On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

>
>> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
> parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
> hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
> and it's usually all-electric.

Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
throw stones at my car parked there.

>
> The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
> actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
> practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
> CEO drives a Tesla.

I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.

The Tesla is a cool car and yes, if I had an extra 100k I'd get one. No
justification needed other than I want one. I'd still need a second car
for longer trips though, the range is good but not so easy for a 600
mile day. Or staying at hotels with no chargers.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 1:39:50 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >
> > On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > > On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
> > >>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
> > >>
> > >> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
> > >> driving too exciting for most people
> > >>
> > >> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
> > >>
> > >> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
> > >> apply the weight forward
> > >>
> > >> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
> > > powered truck. The payback is just not there.
> >
> > Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
> > Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
> > gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
> > replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
> > lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
> > vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
> > engine vehicles.
> >
> > Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
> > it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
> > and horrible for the environment.
> >
> > Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
> > a giant scam being played on the public.
>
> Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
> months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
> hybrid.

If your electric bill isn't "noticeably higher" then either they've lowered your rates or
you've reduced usage in some other area.

It doesn't matter if it's hybrid, a refridgerator or even a cell phone charger. If you've added
anything, then you'll increase your usage, and therefore your bill, unless the additional
use - or cost - is offset in some manner.

>> Cool your jets. I replied to the THREAD.
>
>No, you replied to me. You even used the word "you".
>
>The "thread" can't post, only people can. If you are going to voice your opinion on
>the scam issue - and use the word "you" - reply to some who feels it's a scam.


OK - not replying to anyone in particular, but someone needs to get a
thicker skin, and some people need to learn more about electric and
hybrid vehicles.
With today's energy costs - both gasoline and electric - even here in
Ontario, where our electricity costs are on the high side - if not the
most expensive in North America, then very close, electric vehicles
make sense on the energy cost basis. That's even on full electrics and
plug-in hybrids.

The North American power grid could not support the power requirements
if everyone switched to electric - for sure - as far as the carbon
footprint etc - a large power plant CAN be a lot more efficient and a
lot cleaner than an internal combustion engine powered fleet - even if
it is all fossil fuel fired. More power plants would be required, and
they could be MUCH better than the existing plants.

Hybrid vehicles make sense in MOST driving - particularly in urban
stop and go driving.(where net grid power requirements can often be
ZERO or very close due to regenerative braking and normal driving
totally recharging the battery.) The net efficiency is high because
the combination of battery and IC engine power is pretty well
optimized.

On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 07:59:43 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 8/2/2017 1:39 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> >>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>> >>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>> >>
>> >> Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>> >> Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>> >> gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>> >> replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>> >> lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>> >> vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>> >> engine vehicles.
>> >>
>> >> Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>> >> it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>> >> and horrible for the environment.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>> >> a giant scam being played on the public.
>> >
>> > Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
>> > months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
>> > hybrid.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Plug in hybrid? I don't think they are as bad as the pure electrics.
>> Smaller battery and capturing power from braking.
>
>What, you think that pure electrics don't have regen braking?

Where did I say they don't????
>
>> The biggest joke foisted off on the public was the Chevy Volt with a 24
>> mile range. You pay a premium for the car and it is only useful for
>> short trips.
>
>That's Ford's models, the Volt has more like 50 mile range. My Ford has 21
>mile range. It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>and it's usually all-electric.

What ford has a 50 mile range? My ElectraMobile had a 50 mile intown
range back in 1978
>
>The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>CEO drives a Tesla.
And the Volt has range extensin technology.
>
>> I'm curious how well the climate control works in both 0 degrees and 100
>> degrees. My car will be a comfy 72 degrees but to do that with battery
>> power is going to suck a lot of miles from the total range. Typical car
>> AC is 30,000 BTU and that sucks a lot of power. So does electric heat.
>
>The AC seems to use less power than the heat. In the winter I typically
>run out of battery just as I'm pulling into the parking lot in the morning.
>In the summer I typically have about 6 miles left when I get home.
>
>> The acceleration of the electrics looks like fun though.
>
>All around my hybrid is quite pleasant.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 10:53:18 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
:
=20
> OK - not replying to anyone in particular, but someone needs to get a
> thicker skin, and some people need to learn more about electric and
> hybrid vehicles.

Including the Bollinger, no?

EC has cast his line and caught another bait bucket FULL of guppies.

Reading page after page on this vehicle, the only reference I saw to it bei=
ng a work truck is by EC and some here debating that fact.

Because it can carry wood doesn't make it a work truck. Where would you pu=
t a tool box? A headache rack? Service bins?=20

So the prototype can carry something 4x8, or certain sizes of 2x4. So what=
? They could have said it could carry ice chests and some here would have =
called it an ice delivery truck or even an ice cream truck. Maybe even an =
ice chest delivery truck.

A wheelbarrow can carry a person (in some cases, 2)in it, so does that make=
it suitable for use as a taxi? =20

NO WHERE was I able to find any reference to this being a work truck from i=
ts designers. So I am guessing that I am the only one that took interest i=
n this rich person's off road toy enough to read anything about it, and as =
much as he is derided here, you guys took EC's premise as truth. =20

It is an off road recreation vehicle, stated over and over in the press rel=
eases and statements from the company and quoted in many, many interviews. =
Worse, the stupidity of considering this little teeny runabout a work truc=
k could have been easily avoided if they had simply looked at the page EC p=
osted and followed any of the dozen or so links to different publications. =
It's all there. =20

*********
From a Q and A of Bollinger's Jeff Hollander:

Who=E2=80=99s the target buyer?

=E2=80=9CBecause it will have class-leading off-roading credentials, we thi=
nk that the vehicle will be well suited for outdoor enthusiasts as well as =
various government agencies with clean-fleet initiatives,=E2=80=9D said chi=
ef marketer and spokesman Jeff Holland."

*********

Now it has turned into slug fest over battery powered vehicles and the poli=
tics behind them.

If there was only this much interest in woodworking here.

Come on guys. Now is the time to bring up the evil of the government consp=
iracy against electric cars, the government conspiracy for electric cars an=
d of course, Al Gore. Work in the American Military/Industrial complex and=
their agenda, as well as the fact that people that disagree with your "fin=
dings" (Hello, Google!!) are idiots and shouldn't be breathing your air. Y=
ou guys need to get with it. There are a lot more facets you can bring to a=
thread that was started <<<on a completely false premise>>>. I want to se=
e some real ass ripping over this... don't let this thread run out of bile.

Nicely done, EC!

Robert

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 20:37:59 -0500
>Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I see it will handle long boards / fence posts... Cool.
>> Around here I have seen under truck racks that tote long stuff.
>> Easier to drop and drive off than limit on the roof racks.
>>
>> Never saw a budget price on the thing. Must be high.
>
>yeah they will be high

Actually, it is a bare-bones design and can be produced
quite inexpensively (once tooling is completed). Consider
it to be similar to a 1950 Land Rover. This isnt anything
like the commercial HumVee.

>
>i have no idea how tesla will make close to half a million of those model
>3 cars buyers are waiting for and tesla has money

>maybe they tool up an old gm plant that is making the lacrosse or impala

How did you think Telsa did it? They tooled up an old GM plant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI

On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 7:32:01 PM UTC-4, ads wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 10:45:33 -0700, Electric Comet
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >no idea on the price yet but i really like the idea of an all electric
> >work truck
> >
> >price will be critical to its success
> >
> >low low maintenance costs are really appealing and more storage space
> >with a frunk and this one has the front to rear pass thru for storing
> >12 foot long material inside the truck and over 15 feet with tailgate
> >down
> >
> >that is a strong selling point right there
> >
> >but this claim has to be proven because i cannot see how
> >
> >quote
> >72 Sheets of 1/2 Plywood Fit in the Rear Cargo Area
> >
> >ok i guess if a 10 inches or so hangs off the tailgate it might do
> >
> >i guesstimate the back of driver seat to rear is about 46 inches
> >plus the tailgate is 40 inches
> >
> >i like the simplicity of the design
> >
> >http://bollingermotors.com
> >
> >
>
> On the photos page
> http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
> the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.

That's only because they left the front seats in. Take out the seats and
center shelf and the plywood should fit right inside. You can DIY a temporary
seat:

http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/228847-438x.jpg

;-)

Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 09:12:22 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 22:58:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>>>>>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>>>>
>>>>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>>>>> driving too exciting for most people
>>>>>
>>>>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>>>>
>>>>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>>>>> apply the weight forward
>>>>>
>>>>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>>>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>>>
>>>Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>>>Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>>>gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>>>replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>>>lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>>>vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>>>engine vehicles.
>>>
>>>Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>>>it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>>>and horrible for the environment.
>>>
>>>Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>>>a giant scam being played on the public.
>> In the states they are coal powered. Here in ontario they are NUKES.
>
>Or water powered.

Or not powered.

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 8/3/2017 11:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> writes:
> >> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
> >>> parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
> >>> hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
> >>> and it's usually all-electric.
> >>
> >> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
> >> free fuel.
> >
> > I don't see how Clarke's statement supports your assertion.
>
> Nor did I say that. It is what I've heard in conversation about
> electric cars and subsidies. Just a comment from my observations over
> time. Want names?
>
>
> >
> > A company may actually disagree with your position on energy and climate
> > and choose to offer their employees a benefit that supports their
> > position on energy and climate. Is that illegal or immoral in your
> > view?
>
> Did not say that did I? Any time a corporation gives privileges to some
> and not others there is potential for bad blood.
> >
> >> Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
> >> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
> >> throw stones at my car parked there.
> >
> > Really? Why would you be afraid of that?
>
> The haves versus the have nots. Human instincts can kick in. M company
> paid for all of my gas. I never told anyone else as it was none of
> their business.
> >
> >>
> >>> The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
> >>> actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
> >>> practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
> >>> CEO drives a Tesla.
> >>
> >> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
> >> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
> >
> > Ah, pejorative noted.
>
> Good. I would not want you to miss it. A lot of people are willing to
> pay a premium to be green. That is their decision. Ask Al Gore.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA679.html

o The past year, Gore's home energy use averaged 19,241 kilowatt hours (kWh)
every month, compared to the U.S. household average of 901 kWh per month.
o Gore guzzles more electricity in one year than the average American family
uses in 21 years.
o In September of 2016, Gore's home consumed 30,993 kWh in just one month - as
much energy as a typical American family burns in 34 months.
o During the last 12 months, Gore devoured 66,159 kWh of electricity just heating
his pool. That is enough energy to power six average U.S. households for a year.
o From August 2016 through July 2017, Gore spent almost $22,000 on electricity bills.
o Gore paid an estimated $60,000 to install 33 solar panels. Those solar panels produce
an average of 1,092 kWh per month, only 5.7% of Gore's typical monthly energy consumption.

On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 08:08:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>> > parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>> > hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>> > and it's usually all-electric.
>>
>> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
>> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>> throw stones at my car parked there.
>
>Anybody who throws stones has to get over a ten foot high fence and past
>the security patrols. And if they're an employee they won't be one much
>longer--there is full video surveillance and the company does not tolerate
>vandalism by its employees.

Seems like your employer expects such problems. It must be a great
place to work.
>
>> > The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>> > actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>> > practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>> > CEO drives a Tesla.
>>
>> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
>> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.

No, they care about showing everyone else how much they care (about
something).
>
>It's not just fuel cost. Plug-in hybrids are very low maintenance. When I
>got mine, used, I changed all the fluids and filters on the general
>principle that I didn't know with certainty what maintenance had been
>performed by the previous owner. That done, the next maintenance item is
>going to be an oil change some time in 2019.

The oil system is sealed?
>
>There's also a comfort factor. In a hybrid the loudest noise you hear is
>typically tires on the road. And in the winter heat is instant--no waiting
>for the engine to warm up.
>
>And then there's coming out to the car on a hot or cold day and finding
>that it has run the heater or air conditioner for the past half hour and
>was nicely comfortable.
>
>> The Tesla is a cool car and yes, if I had an extra 100k I'd get one. No
>> justification needed other than I want one. I'd still need a second car
>> for longer trips though, the range is good but not so easy for a 600
>> mile day. Or staying at hotels with no chargers.
>
>I don't think that's an issue for the CEO. We have two big Sikorskis
>hangared on the property and a jet at the airport.
>
...and you're worried about noise. <giggle>

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 16:10:20 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Looks like a cross between a Land Rover and an IH Scout!

and maybe even more square than either but it is a real utility vehicle
so aerodynamics not a critical design element

probably easier to make square and flat panels

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 20:37:59 -0500
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:

> I see it will handle long boards / fence posts... Cool.
> Around here I have seen under truck racks that tote long stuff.
> Easier to drop and drive off than limit on the roof racks.
>
> Never saw a budget price on the thing. Must be high.

yeah they will be high

pickup market is interesting because the profit margins are very good
compared to other vehicle types

so since pickups are over priced and people continue to buy them these
trucks will also be high but they will probably not have the same profit
margin

i would like to see all electric truck choices go up so would be good
to see this truck be successful

making cars is expensive and difficult and with all the computer controls
things have to be well thought out and secure and robust


i have no idea how tesla will make close to half a million of those model
3 cars buyers are waiting for and tesla has money

my point is making these trucks is going to be hard and they probably
do not have deep pockets

maybe they tool up an old gm plant that is making the lacrosse or impala

but then again maybe tesla beats them to it

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400
ads wrote:

> On the photos page
> http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
> the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.

might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make driving
too exciting for most people

that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most

they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would apply
the weight forward

might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off

On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>>
>>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>
>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>> driving too exciting for most people
>>
>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>
>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>> apply the weight forward
>>
>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>
>
>
> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
> powered truck. The payback is just not there.

Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
engine vehicles.

Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
and horrible for the environment.

Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
a giant scam being played on the public.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 8/2/17 12:39 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>>>>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>>>
>>>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>>>> driving too exciting for most people
>>>>
>>>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>>>
>>>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>>>> apply the weight forward
>>>>
>>>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>>
>> Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>> Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>> gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>> replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>> lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>> vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>> engine vehicles.
>>
>> Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>> it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>> and horrible for the environment.
>>
>> Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>> a giant scam being played on the public.
>
> Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
> months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
> hybrid.
>

Enjoy it! I don't have a problem with electric cars or anyone who wants
one.

I just don't like being force fed the myth that they are better for the
environment or somehow saving us all from imminent demise.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:46:05 -0400
Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas

trade off as in better steering control with weight more forward

laying flat as in the photo most of weight looks aft of rear axle

not good for steering control

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 10:45:33 -0700
Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:

> no idea on the price yet but i really like the idea of an all electric

the guy says middle five figures on the price and he factors in 7500
tax credit and any state incentives

and not light even though it is all aluminum

ic engines are on the way out electric so much less maintenance costs
and so many fewer moving parts

germany targeting banning ic engine cars in only a few years

On 8/2/17 10:53 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>> Cool your jets. I replied to the THREAD.
>>
>> No, you replied to me. You even used the word "you".
>>
>> The "thread" can't post, only people can. If you are going to voice your opinion on
>> the scam issue - and use the word "you" - reply to some who feels it's a scam.
>
>
> OK - not replying to anyone in particular, but someone needs to get a
> thicker skin, and some people need to learn more about electric and
> hybrid vehicles.
> With today's energy costs - both gasoline and electric - even here in
> Ontario, where our electricity costs are on the high side - if not the
> most expensive in North America, then very close, electric vehicles
> make sense on the energy cost basis. That's even on full electrics and
> plug-in hybrids.
>
> The North American power grid could not support the power requirements
> if everyone switched to electric - for sure - as far as the carbon
> footprint etc - a large power plant CAN be a lot more efficient and a
> lot cleaner than an internal combustion engine powered fleet - even if
> it is all fossil fuel fired. More power plants would be required, and
> they could be MUCH better than the existing plants.
>
> Hybrid vehicles make sense in MOST driving - particularly in urban
> stop and go driving.(where net grid power requirements can often be
> ZERO or very close due to regenerative braking and normal driving
> totally recharging the battery.) The net efficiency is high because
> the combination of battery and IC engine power is pretty well
> optimized.
>

You're forgetting about the lithium.
You're also forgetting about manufacturing, shipping, mining, etc.,
etc., etc.
Carbon footprint is about a lot more than just energy consumption.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 09:09:27 -0700
Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:

> my point is making these trucks is going to be hard and they probably
> do not have deep pockets

read that they never intended to produce these themselves and are
looking for a partner

tesla will be occupied with the model 3 for next few years and will spend
zero time on their truck so this truck might have a chance if they find
a good partner soon


unfortunately for the guy that created this a partner will want majority
stake

but then again maybe he finds someone with money and lack of know
how and lets him run with it

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> writes:
>On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>
>>> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>> parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>> hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>> and it's usually all-electric.
>
>Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
>free fuel.

I don't see how Clarke's statement supports your assertion.

A company may actually disagree with your position on energy and climate
and choose to offer their employees a benefit that supports their
position on energy and climate. Is that illegal or immoral in your
view?

>Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>throw stones at my car parked there.

Really? Why would you be afraid of that?

>
>> The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>> actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>> practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>> CEO drives a Tesla.
>
>I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
>savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.

Ah, pejorative noted.

>
>The Tesla is a cool car and yes, if I had an extra 100k I'd get one. No
>justification needed other than I want one. I'd still need a second car
>for longer trips though, the range is good but not so easy for a 600
>mile day. Or staying at hotels with no chargers.

As time passes, range anxiety will become less of an issue. However,
one can always rent a car for the weekend/long trips - for much less cost
than keeping a second one around.

And clearly, there are differences for folks that live in rural settings
vs. those who live in dense urban environments - there's no one-size-fits
all solution to transportation, energy supplies or the environment.

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:08:14 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
>> > parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
>> > hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
>> > and it's usually all-electric.
>>
>> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
>> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
>> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
>> throw stones at my car parked there.
>>
>> >
>> > The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
>> > actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
>> > practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
>> > CEO drives a Tesla.
>>
>> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
>> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.
>
>Many are just obnoxious assholes.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JPZskYKUvY
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dgzjsDE8X0
Are you green?

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 18:17:56 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 9:20:34 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:50:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 1:39:50 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> >> >
>> >> > On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >> > > On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> >> > >> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>> >> > >>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>> >> > >> driving too exciting for most people
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>> >> > >> apply the weight forward
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>> >> > > powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>> >> >
>> >> > Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>> >> > Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>> >> > gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>> >> > replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>> >> > lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>> >> > vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>> >> > engine vehicles.
>> >> >
>> >> > Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>> >> > it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>> >> > and horrible for the environment.
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>> >> > a giant scam being played on the public.
>> >>
>> >> Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
>> >> months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
>> >> hybrid.
>> >
>> >If your electric bill isn't "noticeably higher" then either they've lowered your rates or
>> >you've reduced usage in some other area.
>> >
>> >It doesn't matter if it's hybrid, a refrigerator or even a cell phone charger. If you've added
>> >anything, then you'll increase your usage, and therefore your bill, unless the additional
>> >use - or cost - is offset in some manner.
>> No, a hybrid does not HAVE to be plugged in - depending on driving
>> conditions. It allows the engine to run at it's most efficient, in
>> atkinson cycle, keeping the battery charged with help from
>> regenerative braking, while the battery supplies power for peak loads,
>> so the engine never has to work in "full output" mode which is very
>> hard on fuel compared to optimized running.
>
>What a totally wasted comment. Why would J. Clark say "my electric bill
>isn't noticeably higher than it was before the hybrid" if *he* wasn't
>plugging his in? _Of course_ a person's electricity bill wouldn't be impacted
>if they never plugged in the new device, but if that was the case they wouldn't
>comment on their before and after bill. The mere fact that he made the
>comparison indicates that *he* plugs *his* in.
>

If he plugs it in and the battery is fully charged it won't take ANY
power. Simple.
>>
>> You can bitch and complain about electrics and hybrids being a scam,
>> foisted on you by "libtards" all you like - the REAL FACTS, not the
>> "fake news" is they DO make sense. The only real problem is if
>> everyine started running electrics and plug-on hybrids the North
>> American Grid, as it stanrs - totally neglected for the last several
>> decades, would be totally inadequate. and powerplants would require
>> the type of polution controls that cars have had for decades.
>
>Why are you lecturing me? I didn't bitch about anything related to
>electrics and hybrids being a scam. Go back and read my post. I responded
>to what J. Clark said about his electric bill - I commented on his words,
>not on his car.
Cool your jets. I replied to the THREAD.

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 22:58:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>>>
>>>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>>>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>>
>>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>>> driving too exciting for most people
>>>
>>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>>
>>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>>> apply the weight forward
>>>
>>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>>
>>
>>
>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>
>Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>engine vehicles.
>
>Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>and horrible for the environment.
>
>Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>a giant scam being played on the public.
In the states they are coal powered. Here in ontario they are NUKES.

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 8/3/2017 7:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> >
> >> It's 13 miles to work and my employer provides preferred
> > parking with company-paid chargers to people who drive electrics and
> > hybrids. So it works fine for me. Most of my driving is the daily commute
> > and it's usually all-electric.
>
> Seems that some electric drivers thing they are special and should get
> free fuel. Pay a premium for your car and you can join our elitist club
> and get special parking. I'd be afraid the masses of gas drivers would
> throw stones at my car parked there.
>
> >
> > The person two up the chain of command from me drives a Volt. She's an
> > actuary, I'm pretty sure she knows how to crunch the numbers on
> > practicality. She also lives farther from work than I do. Of course the
> > CEO drives a Tesla.
>
> I'd like to see the numbers if she is justifying it on fuel cost
> savings. Many greenies don't care about money as much as saving a tree.

Many are just obnoxious assholes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JPZskYKUvY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dgzjsDE8X0

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:50:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 1:39:50 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> >
>> > On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> > > On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> > >> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>> > >>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>> > >>
>> > >> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>> > >> driving too exciting for most people
>> > >>
>> > >> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>> > >>
>> > >> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>> > >> apply the weight forward
>> > >>
>> > >> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>> > > powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>> >
>> > Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>> > Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>> > gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>> > replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>> > lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>> > vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>> > engine vehicles.
>> >
>> > Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>> > it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>> > and horrible for the environment.
>> >
>> > Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>> > a giant scam being played on the public.
>>
>> Well I'm enjoying the "scam". I buy one tank of gas every two or three
>> months, and my electric bill isn't noticeably higher than it was before the
>> hybrid.
>
>If your electric bill isn't "noticeably higher" then either they've lowered your rates or
>you've reduced usage in some other area.
>
>It doesn't matter if it's hybrid, a refridgerator or even a cell phone charger. If you've added
>anything, then you'll increase your usage, and therefore your bill, unless the additional
>use - or cost - is offset in some manner.
No, a hybrid does not HAVE to be plugged in - depending on driving
conditions. It allows the engine to run at it's most efficient, in
atkinson cycle, keeping the battery charged with help from
regenerative braking, while the battery supplies power for peak loads,
so the engine never has to work in "full output" mode which is very
hard on fuel compared to optimized running.

You can bitch and complain about electrics and hybrids being a scam,
foisted on you by "libtards" all you like - the REAL FACTS, not the
"fake news" is they DO make sense. The only real problem is if
everyine started running electrics and plug-on hybrids the North
American Grid, as it stanrs - totally neglected for the last several
decades, would be totally inadequate. and powerplants would require
the type of polution controls that cars have had for decades.

On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 09:12:22 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 22:58:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On 8/1/17 5:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 8/1/2017 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 19:31:58 -0400 ads wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On the photos page http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html the
>>>>> plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.
>>>>
>>>> might be way too much weight aft the rear axle and that can make
>>>> driving too exciting for most people
>>>>
>>>> that is to say loss of steering control when you need it most
>>>>
>>>> they might need to make a cantilever that pops up and which would
>>>> apply the weight forward
>>>>
>>>> might reduce the number of sheets but it is a good trade off
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good trade for what? I see very limited use advantage over a gas
>>> powered truck. The payback is just not there.
>>
>>Exactly! It reality, it is a coal-fired truck.
>>Electric vehicles have a much higher life-long carbon footprint than
>>gasoline powered vehicles. From manufacture, to shipping, to
>>replacement of lithium batteries, to end-of-life, to disposal of the
>>lithium chemicals in the environment, etc., etc., etc., electric
>>vehicles are much worse for the environment than internal combustion
>>engine vehicles.
>>
>>Them add up the lack in revenue due to the loss of gas tax revenue and
>>it is easily proven that electric cars are a big scam and waste of money
>>and horrible for the environment.
>>
>>Maybe a century from now, things will be different. But right now, it's
>>a giant scam being played on the public.
> In the states they are coal powered. Here in ontario they are NUKES.

Or water powered.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 10:45:33 -0700, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>no idea on the price yet but i really like the idea of an all electric
>work truck
>
>price will be critical to its success
>
>low low maintenance costs are really appealing and more storage space
>with a frunk and this one has the front to rear pass thru for storing
>12 foot long material inside the truck and over 15 feet with tailgate
>down
>
>that is a strong selling point right there
>
>but this claim has to be proven because i cannot see how
>
>quote
>72 Sheets of 1/2 Plywood Fit in the Rear Cargo Area
>
>ok i guess if a 10 inches or so hangs off the tailgate it might do
>
>i guesstimate the back of driver seat to rear is about 46 inches
>plus the tailgate is 40 inches
>
>i like the simplicity of the design
>
>http://bollingermotors.com
>
>

On the photos page
http://bollingermotors.com/photos.html
the plywood extends beyond the end of the tailgate.