Pictorial:
https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen here:
https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
And there's the rub.
I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
about it as I was applying the glue. :(
The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
in use.
The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
those flat power-head socket type.
Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
some that are reasonably decorative?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 3:33:30 PM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 1/16/2017 7:11 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> > "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> On 1/16/2017 4:23 PM, Leon wrote:
> >>> But if you feel compelled, counter sink them and plug with oak plugs and
> >>> sand smooth.
> >>
> >> With the dadoes, there's only 1/2" of "meat" there.
> >
> > That's enough for plugs but if you think not and want to reinforce in a
> > sorta decorative way, use dowels. And strength from dowels is greatly
> > increased of they are inserted at angles. Same for nails and screws.
> >
> >
> I considered dowels. That would certainly be easy. I'm becoming
> convinced that perhaps none of this is necessary though.
>
It's necessary if it will stop you from constantly worrying about whether the
item will fail or not.
It's known as Peace Of Mind and not something to be taken lightly.
On 1/16/2017 4:45 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 1/16/2017 4:23 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/16/2017 10:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Pictorial:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>>>
>>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
>>> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen
>>> here:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>>>
>>> And there's the rub.
>>>
>>> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
>>> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
>>> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>>>
>>> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
>>> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
>>> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
>>> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
>>> in use.
>>>
>>> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
>>> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
>>> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
>>> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
>>> those flat power-head socket type.
>>>
>>> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
>>> some that are reasonably decorative?
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you are talking about adding screws to reinforce the joints, NO.
>
> I'm confused then. Haven't I read here on this very forum about the
> perils of end-grain glue joints? When *are* they bad if not in this
> application?
>>
>> Put it down suspended between a couple boards to hold it up off the
>> floor. Stand on it. did it hold up? ;~)
>
> I don't think I would try that. It might indeed hold, but lets just say
> that I present a tougher test than most people. :)
>>
>> But if you feel compelled, counter sink them and plug with oak plugs and
>> sand smooth.
>
> With the dadoes, there's only 1/2" of "meat" there.
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
So yes your dados are 1/4 on 3/4 stock.. less than the 3/8 that I would
do, BuTTTTT perfectly fine. your joints look tight, and should easily
hold. The nails would be less strong than your joint... You DONE GOOD
ENOUGH.
--
Jeff
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> i think there are even dye markers used by metal workers that come in
> different colors
>
A lot of metalworkers just use Sharpies. It works great for things like
sharpening plane irons and the like when you want to see where the stone is
cutting.
I went with the Magnum size rather than the medium tip, but you don't
necessarily have to go that large. I'm just tired of coloring in the edge
of the tool.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
On 1/16/2017 10:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Pictorial:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>
> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen here:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>
> And there's the rub.
>
> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>
> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
> in use.
>
> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
> those flat power-head socket type.
>
> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
> some that are reasonably decorative?
>
If you are talking about adding screws to reinforce the joints, NO.
Put it down suspended between a couple boards to hold it up off the
floor. Stand on it. did it hold up? ;~)
But if you feel compelled, counter sink them and plug with oak plugs and
sand smooth.
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> writes:
>On 1/16/2017 12:58 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> Nope, glue is stronger than nails in this case, you should be fine.
>> How you hang it is another issue. You definetly want to hit studs.
>>
>>
>>
>Just to be sure I've been clear, every joint in this project is
>end-grain to long-grain. It may be easier to see here:
>
>https://flic.kr/p/R6Qae4
>
>Are glued end-grain to long-grain joints strong enough? And yes, it will
>definitely be attached to studs.
I wouldn't put any significant weight on a end-grain to long-grain
joint. However, if they're in a dado or rebate, then you should be
ok assuming the dado/rebate is deep enough (e.g. 3/8" deep in 4/4S4S stock),
where you'll get long-grain to long-grain.
On 1/16/2017 3:45 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 1/16/2017 4:23 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/16/2017 10:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Pictorial:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>>>
>>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
>>> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen
>>> here:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>>>
>>> And there's the rub.
>>>
>>> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
>>> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
>>> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>>>
>>> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
>>> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
>>> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
>>> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
>>> in use.
>>>
>>> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
>>> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
>>> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
>>> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
>>> those flat power-head socket type.
>>>
>>> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
>>> some that are reasonably decorative?
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you are talking about adding screws to reinforce the joints, NO.
>
> I'm confused then. Haven't I read here on this very forum about the
> perils of end-grain glue joints? When *are* they bad if not in this
> application?
End to end is not good. ;~) But you have a lot of surface area
reinforced with a joint that will protect against being knocked loose
from a side hit. Cabinet doors are typically put together with end
grain to long grain and reinforced with a joint.
And you have approximately 1.5 square inches of glued surface area for
every inch deep your joint runs. If your cabinet is 8" deep you have 12
square inches of glue surface area for each joint and you have 4 on the
top and 4 on bottom all working together. Again if 8" deep, that would
be 96 square inches of glue surface.
And if you ad a back that would help lock everything together.
>>
>> Put it down suspended between a couple boards to hold it up off the
>> floor. Stand on it. did it hold up? ;~)
>
> I don't think I would try that. It might indeed hold, but lets just say
> that I present a tougher test than most people. :)
Me too. ;~)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8539981330/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> But if you feel compelled, counter sink them and plug with oak plugs and
>> sand smooth.
>
> With the dadoes, there's only 1/2" of "meat" there.
Not a problem, use a washer head Pocket hole screw. Go just deep enough
to hide the screw and cover it with a plug. TEST fit on scraps. And
remember, what you have now is probably going to be fine, the screws do
not, in this case, need a lot of wood under the head.
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
On 1/16/2017 11:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Pictorial:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>
> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen here:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>
> And there's the rub.
>
> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>
> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
> in use.
>
> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
> those flat power-head socket type.
>
> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
> some that are reasonably decorative?
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
Nope, glue is stronger than nails in this case, you should be fine.
How you hang it is another issue. You definetly want to hit studs.
--
Jeff
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:26:18 -0500, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 1/16/2017 12:58 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/16/2017 11:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Pictorial:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>>>
>>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
>>> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen here:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>>>
>>> And there's the rub.
>>>
>>> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
>>> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
>>> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>>>
>>> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
>>> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
>>> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
>>> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
>>> in use.
>>>
>>> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
>>> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
>>> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
>>> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
>>> those flat power-head socket type.
>>>
>>> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
>>> some that are reasonably decorative?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>
>> Nope, glue is stronger than nails in this case, you should be fine.
>> How you hang it is another issue. You definetly want to hit studs.
>>
>>
>>
>Just to be sure I've been clear, every joint in this project is
>end-grain to long-grain. It may be easier to see here:
>
>https://flic.kr/p/R6Qae4
>
>Are glued end-grain to long-grain joints strong enough? And yes, it will
>definitely be attached to studs.
It doesn't look like end to long-grain joints to me. It looks like
there are shallow dados, no? I would have made the dados a little
deeper (than what I see) but the weight is being held by the dado
edges, not the glue. The glue is still holding edge-grain to (dado)
edge-grain. Again, I would have made them a little deeper.
BTW, looks nice!
On 1/16/2017 12:58 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/16/2017 11:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> Pictorial:
>>
>> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>>
>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
>> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen here:
>>
>> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>>
>> And there's the rub.
>>
>> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
>> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
>> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>>
>> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
>> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
>> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
>> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
>> in use.
>>
>> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
>> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
>> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
>> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
>> those flat power-head socket type.
>>
>> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
>> some that are reasonably decorative?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>
> Nope, glue is stronger than nails in this case, you should be fine.
> How you hang it is another issue. You definetly want to hit studs.
>
>
>
Just to be sure I've been clear, every joint in this project is
end-grain to long-grain. It may be easier to see here:
https://flic.kr/p/R6Qae4
Are glued end-grain to long-grain joints strong enough? And yes, it will
definitely be attached to studs.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:43:17 -0500
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All
> the joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be
why not add some screws for peace of mind
what downside is there to adding some screws
On 1/16/2017 3:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:43:17 -0500
> Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All
>> the joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be
>
> why not add some screws for peace of mind
>
> what downside is there to adding some screws
Only esthetic. I'd like to find screws with this style (and color) head:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Connecting-Bolts-1-4-20-X-50-Antique-Brass-4Pk-Crown-Bolt-Nuts-and-Bolts-53984/136777150?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=723&adid=22222222227040914450&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=60961175738&wl4=pla-100127316338&wl5=9004067&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112354112&wl11=online&wl12=136777150&wl13=&veh=sem
But of course in a wood screw. Ive seen something like it at HD, but in
nickel or brass, and at $1 per screw. I don't know what to call that
style of head.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/16/2017 3:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:43:17 -0500
>> Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All
>>> the joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be
>>
>> why not add some screws for peace of mind
>>
>> what downside is there to adding some screws
>
> Only esthetic. I'd like to find screws with this style (and color) head:
>
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Connecting-Bolts-1-4-20-X-50-Antique-Brass-4Pk-Crown-Bolt-Nuts-and-Bolts-53984/136777150?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=723&adid=22222222227040914450&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=60961175738&wl4=pla-100127316338&wl5=9004067&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112354112&wl11=online&wl12=136777150&wl13=&veh=sem
>
> But of course in a wood screw. Ive seen something like it at HD, but in
> nickel or brass, and at $1 per screw. I don't know what to call that style
> of head.
About the closest you are likely to find are truss head. Oval head screws
can look decent. Me, I'd countersink plain old screws and glue in face
grain plugs if I was going to add screws which I wouldn't. However, what I
WOULD have done is set the pieces in sliding dovetails; very little harder
to make than dados and they will NOT come loose.
On 1/16/2017 4:23 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/16/2017 10:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> Pictorial:
>>
>> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>>
>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
>> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen here:
>>
>> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>>
>> And there's the rub.
>>
>> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
>> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
>> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>>
>> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
>> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
>> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
>> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
>> in use.
>>
>> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
>> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
>> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
>> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
>> those flat power-head socket type.
>>
>> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
>> some that are reasonably decorative?
>>
>
>
> If you are talking about adding screws to reinforce the joints, NO.
I'm confused then. Haven't I read here on this very forum about the
perils of end-grain glue joints? When *are* they bad if not in this
application?
>
> Put it down suspended between a couple boards to hold it up off the
> floor. Stand on it. did it hold up? ;~)
I don't think I would try that. It might indeed hold, but lets just say
that I present a tougher test than most people. :)
>
> But if you feel compelled, counter sink them and plug with oak plugs and
> sand smooth.
With the dadoes, there's only 1/2" of "meat" there.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On 1/16/2017 4:14 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 1/16/2017 3:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:43:17 -0500
>>> Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>>>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All
>>>> the joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be
>>>
>>> why not add some screws for peace of mind
>>>
>>> what downside is there to adding some screws
>>
>> Only esthetic. I'd like to find screws with this style (and color) head:
>>
>> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Connecting-Bolts-1-4-20-X-50-Antique-Brass-4Pk-Crown-Bolt-Nuts-and-Bolts-53984/136777150?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=723&adid=22222222227040914450&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=60961175738&wl4=pla-100127316338&wl5=9004067&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112354112&wl11=online&wl12=136777150&wl13=&veh=sem
>>
>> But of course in a wood screw. Ive seen something like it at HD, but in
>> nickel or brass, and at $1 per screw. I don't know what to call that style
>> of head.
>
> About the closest you are likely to find are truss head. Oval head screws
> can look decent. Me, I'd countersink plain old screws and glue in face
> grain plugs if I was going to add screws which I wouldn't. However, what I
> WOULD have done is set the pieces in sliding dovetails; very little harder
> to make than dados and they will NOT come loose.
>
>
I'm skeptical that they are not much harder than dadoes, with my limited
skills and gear anyway. I made the dadoes (and rabbets) with a router
and this homemade jig:
https://flic.kr/p/QZ5N9A
Now *that's* easy. I assume I'd make sliding dovetails with a router
also? Assuming so, can't there be problems if the boards are even a
little cupped? Wouldn't the depth of the groove vary? I don't have a
planer; I'm at the mercy of S4S lumber. Dadoes seem more geometrically
forgiving.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:48:07 -0500
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
> But of course in a wood screw. Ive seen something like it at HD, but
> in nickel or brass, and at $1 per screw. I don't know what to call
> that style of head.
http://www.harborfreight.com/96-piece-stainless-steel-screw-and-nut-set-67680.html
you could just paint the heads or use a brown marker
i think there are even dye markers used by metal workers that come in
different colors
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/16/2017 4:14 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 1/16/2017 3:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:43:17 -0500
>>>> Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>>>>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All
>>>>> the joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be
>>>>
>>>> why not add some screws for peace of mind
>>>>
>>>> what downside is there to adding some screws
>>>
>>> Only esthetic. I'd like to find screws with this style (and color) head:
>>>
>>> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Connecting-Bolts-1-4-20-X-50-Antique-Brass-4Pk-Crown-Bolt-Nuts-and-Bolts-53984/136777150?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=723&adid=22222222227040914450&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=60961175738&wl4=pla-100127316338&wl5=9004067&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112354112&wl11=online&wl12=136777150&wl13=&veh=sem
>>>
>>> But of course in a wood screw. Ive seen something like it at HD, but in
>>> nickel or brass, and at $1 per screw. I don't know what to call that
>>> style
>>> of head.
>>
>> About the closest you are likely to find are truss head. Oval head
>> screws
>> can look decent. Me, I'd countersink plain old screws and glue in face
>> grain plugs if I was going to add screws which I wouldn't. However, what
>> I
>> WOULD have done is set the pieces in sliding dovetails; very little
>> harder
>> to make than dados and they will NOT come loose.
>>
>>
> I'm skeptical that they are not much harder than dadoes, with my limited
> skills and gear anyway. I made the dadoes (and rabbets) with a router and
> this homemade jig:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/QZ5N9A
>
> Now *that's* easy. I assume I'd make sliding dovetails with a router also?
> Assuming so, can't there be problems if the boards are even a little
> cupped? Wouldn't the depth of the groove vary? I don't have a planer; I'm
> at the mercy of S4S lumber. Dadoes seem more geometrically forgiving.
Your jig would make the slots. You would need a way to route the board
edges for the pins.
No reason S4S wouldn't be fine.
A cupped board would be no more a problem than it is with dados. In both
cases, the board needs to be forced into submission when assembling. If the
board refuses. making the pins a wee bit narrower takes care of that
problem, the glue takes care of the slight slop from narrower pins.
Sliding dovetails are your friends. Embrace them :)
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/16/2017 4:23 PM, Leon wrote:
>> But if you feel compelled, counter sink them and plug with oak plugs and
>> sand smooth.
>
> With the dadoes, there's only 1/2" of "meat" there.
That's enough for plugs but if you think not and want to reinforce in a
sorta decorative way, use dowels. And strength from dowels is greatly
increased of they are inserted at angles. Same for nails and screws.
On 1/16/2017 7:11 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 1/16/2017 4:23 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> But if you feel compelled, counter sink them and plug with oak plugs and
>>> sand smooth.
>>
>> With the dadoes, there's only 1/2" of "meat" there.
>
> That's enough for plugs but if you think not and want to reinforce in a
> sorta decorative way, use dowels. And strength from dowels is greatly
> increased of they are inserted at angles. Same for nails and screws.
>
>
I considered dowels. That would certainly be easy. I'm becoming
convinced that perhaps none of this is necessary though.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:08:21 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:43:17 -0500
>Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All
>> the joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be
>
>why not add some screws for peace of mind
Screws into end grain?
>what downside is there to adding some screws
Because they're ugly and don't do anything. Pocket screws, maybe, but
that ship's sailed.
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:26:18 -0500, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 1/16/2017 12:58 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/16/2017 11:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Pictorial:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/PNUxit
>>>
>>> It's a shelf/cubbyhole unit, intended to hang from the wall. It's six
>>> feet long and a little over 11" deep. The material is red oak. All the
>>> joints are dadoed or rabbeted (1/4" deep) and glued, as can be seen here:
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/R48Du6
>>>
>>> And there's the rub.
>>>
>>> I'm still just a weekend hobbyist and I had not considered that the
>>> joints would involve end grain when I designed the piece. I only thought
>>> about it as I was applying the glue. :(
>>>
>>> The unit consists of about 18 feet of solid red oak 1x12. One of those
>>> online calculators tells me that's about 30 pounds, unloaded. There
>>> won't be books in (and on) these shelves, mostly percussion instruments
>>> including some hand drums. Still, I can imagine it weighing 60-80 lbs.
>>> in use.
>>>
>>> The top of the unit will be about six feet off the ground. I figure that
>>> means that only people over 6'3" will ever see it. Even the bottom will
>>> be largely obscured by speakers and a pair of computer monitors. So it
>>> wouldn't be a disaster to add a couple of screws to each joint, maybe
>>> those flat power-head socket type.
>>>
>>> Any advice about whether or not I need screws, and if so where I can get
>>> some that are reasonably decorative?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>
>> Nope, glue is stronger than nails in this case, you should be fine.
>> How you hang it is another issue. You definetly want to hit studs.
>>
>>
>>
>Just to be sure I've been clear, every joint in this project is
>end-grain to long-grain. It may be easier to see here:
>
>https://flic.kr/p/R6Qae4
>
>Are glued end-grain to long-grain joints strong enough? And yes, it will
>definitely be attached to studs.
>
>---
>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>https://www.avast.com/antivirus
If you want "belt and suspenders" fasten a cleat to the wall and set
the shelf on the cleat. That will handle the back of the shelf unit.
Or use shelf btackets screwed to the wall to support the unit. But
that's "belt and suspenders" Properly glued, what you have built
should be just fine