Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for
this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
house which is well ventilated.
Damian
"Unquestionably Confused" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> If it's hydronic heat there's no problem with the furnace circulating dust
> but the cautions about the dust being ignited by the combustion process
> still apply dependent upon the type of the system.
>
Just a point of information. Hydronic systems have boilers (even though the
water may not actually boil) and hot air heaters are referred to as
furnaces.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living
room
> > which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air
> > from the basement.
> >
> The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without a
DC. Use
> the 5 micron bags and it will help.
Hmmm, it's sounding as though this isn't a great idea... Is there
anyway to make it work? Sure would be nice to have the DC outside the
shop and the basement is perfectly located.
Damian
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> >
> > damian penney wrote:
> > >
> > > Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> > > furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible
but
> > > not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean
enough for
> > > this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under
the
> > > house which is well ventilated.
> >
> > Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then
be
> > "right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't
come
> > close to collecting it...
> >
> > I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least
w/o a
> > collector failure like a hole).
> >
> > IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc...
>
> I'll note that while the furnace isn't supposed to be picking up
> circulation air, there are always some leaks...
Hmmm, okay next question, how do DC's deal with being outside in the
rain :)
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> damian penney wrote:
> >
> > Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > > "damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living
> > room
> > > > which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty
air
> > > > from the basement.
> > > >
> > > The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without
a
> > DC. Use
> > > the 5 micron bags and it will help.
> >
> > Hmmm, it's sounding as though this isn't a great idea... Is there
> > anyway to make it work? Sure would be nice to have the DC outside
the
> > shop and the basement is perfectly located.
> >
>
> Best bet is to build a closet to hold it--contains dust and minimizes
> noise as well...
How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I just vent
the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the input
here guys.
Damian
Teamcasa wrote:
> "damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> > furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible
but
> > not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough
for
> > this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> > house which is well ventilated.
> >
> > Damian
>
>
> Remember, A DC will add positive air pressure to an enclosed
basement. Your
> furnace should only be using outside air for combustion so the dust
*should*
> not be an issue. I would build an enclosure for it in the basement,
vent
> the enclosure to the outside with a 12" tube. This should solve the
> positive air problem and vent most of the fine duct particles.
>
> You might consider putting a cyclone outside so that empting the
sawdust is
> not a big issue as well.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
Okay, that sounds like a plan. Thanks everyone.
One of my jobs in life is helping design clean rooms. If you put the
DC outside - say a 1200 CFM jobby - and your wood shop is in the
basement - you will create a partial vacuum in the basement sucking a
lot of air down the chimney - would probably extinguish any open cycle
gas furnace or water heater - worst if it did not extinguish the flame
- would have build up of at least CO2 and maybe CO.
If you put it in a closet in the basement - air still must come out of
the closet and it will have particles in the air. Guess you could put
a bunch of HEPA filters in one of the walls and catch the vast majority
of the fines.
All of life is a trade off - if you use some of the finer mesh bags it
probably will not be a problem - unless you are one heck of a wood
butcher.
Clint wrote:
> Of course, if you vent it outside, you're heating or cooling all that
air
> that you need to bring back inside to replace the 1200cfm... Could
get a
> little pricy.
>
> Clint
>
> "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > damian penney wrote:
> > ...
> > >
> > > How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I
just vent
> > > the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the
input
> > > here guys.
> >
> > Would depend on the relative sizes of the DC and the
> > enclosure...ideally, an exterior vent would be the best route for
inside
> > a dwelling...Otherwise, you do still have a potential problem w/
> > capturing the fines.
Well I live in Oakland, California and the shop is in an unheated
garage whose door is wide open when I'm in the shop so heating isn't an
issue.
Steven and Gail Peterson wrote:
> There seems to be confusion in many of the replies about where air
comes
> from and goes. The air being heated and circulated comes through the
> furnace ducting, and may or may not include air from/to the basement.
In
> the case of my furnace, combustion air comes from the room the
furnace is
> in, and is vented to a chimney when it leaves, taking combustion
products
> with it. Combustion air does not circulate through the house unless
you
> have a leak. If that happens, you will smell it and should get it
fixed
> asap.
>
> I ran a dust collector in the same basement room as the furnace for
years,
> with no problems. I did have the dust collector as far from the
furnace as
> possible. I also had an air cleaner with 3 levels of filtering; the
initial
> furnace filter was the only one that ever had to be cleaned or
replaced.
>
> Good luck,
> Steve
>
> "damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> > furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible
but
> > not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough
for
> > this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> > house which is well ventilated.
> >
> > Damian
> >
Duane said that even with the air being drawn from elsewhere there are
inevitably leaks in the ductwork. Our furnace operates like you said,
air drawn from the house into the furnace with the furnace being vented
by a chimney. I think the setup will be the DC in the basement with the
furnace inside a closet that is vented outside.
Damian
damian penney wrote:
> Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
> not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough
for
> this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> house which is well ventilated.
>
The exhaust from the DC should be clean enough to not worry about
an explosion hazard unless you shake a lot of dust into the air
when you are emptying it.
Over the years folks here on rec.WW have done the arithmetic and
shown that normal woodworking operations, dust collection and so
on do not generate dust fast enough to create an explosive
atmosphere under steady state conditions.
However if dust accumulates somewhere and then lets go all
at once the assumption of steady state conditions is violated
and the concentration fo air could momentarily reach the
lower inflammible limit--the whumphf threshold.
--
FF
Please do not overlook the information about pressures pointed out by
Butch. The DC creates a negative pressure to collect the dust from
your saw or planer or whatever. If the DC is in the same area as the
furnace or water heater, you need to restore the exit air from that DC
back into the room to equalize the pressure. If you vent the exit air
to the outside, you effectively keep a negative pressure in the shop
anytime the DC runs. If the furnace is on at the same time, flue gases
can be sucked back down the chimney rather than going their normal flow
and therefore cause you extreme danger for CO poisoning. DCs can be
vented outside in climates where no furnace is needed or where the
furnace is in some other part of the house.
Rocky
Rocky wrote:
> Please do not overlook the information about pressures pointed out by
> Butch. The DC creates a negative pressure to collect the dust from
> your saw or planer or whatever. If the DC is in the same area as the
> furnace or water heater, you need to restore the exit air from that
DC
> back into the room to equalize the pressure. If you vent the exit
air
> to the outside, you effectively keep a negative pressure in the shop
> anytime the DC runs. If the furnace is on at the same time, flue
gases
> can be sucked back down the chimney rather than going their normal
flow
> and therefore cause you extreme danger for CO poisoning. DCs can be
> vented outside in climates where no furnace is needed or where the
> furnace is in some other part of the house.
>
> Rocky
I don't think this is an issue, I may not be understanding it correctly
though. The setup is an unheated garage/workshop where the door is
always open when I'm working. The furnace is in an adjacent area that
extends all the way under the house which is very well ventilated. So
the shop would be at negative pressure because that's where the air is
being sucked from but that is wide open, and the DC would be vented
outside relieving the positive pressure the unit itself would generate.
I am right here ?
>
> I don't think this is an issue, I may not be understanding it
correctly
> though. The setup is an unheated garage/workshop where the door is
> always open when I'm working. The furnace is in an adjacent area that
> extends all the way under the house which is very well ventilated. So
> the shop would be at negative pressure because that's where the air
is
> being sucked from but that is wide open, and the DC would be vented
> outside relieving the positive pressure the unit itself would
generate.
> I am right here ?
In the sitution you describe, I think you'd be OK.
Rocku
damian penney wrote:
>
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
>> Duane Bozarth wrote:
>> >
>> > damian penney wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
>> > > furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible
> but
>> > > not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean
> enough for
>> > > this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under
> the
>> > > house which is well ventilated.
>> >
>> > Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then
> be
>> > "right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't
> come
>> > close to collecting it...
>> >
>> > I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least
> w/o a
>> > collector failure like a hole).
>> >
>> > IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc...
>>
>> I'll note that while the furnace isn't supposed to be picking up
>> circulation air, there are always some leaks...
>
>
> Hmmm, okay next question, how do DC's deal with being outside in the
> rain :)
They don't. But you could combine two of your posts, build an enclosure
outside. A parishioner of mine is doing exactly that. His HF 16CFM
(advertised) will actually have about 1200 CFM throughput and no costly
filter bags, just the 30 micron bag that comes with it.
Deb
Deb
damian penney wrote:
>
> Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
> not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for
> this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> house which is well ventilated.
Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then be
"right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't come
close to collecting it...
I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least w/o a
collector failure like a hole).
IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc...
Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> damian penney wrote:
> >
> > Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> > furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
> > not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for
> > this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> > house which is well ventilated.
>
> Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then be
> "right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't come
> close to collecting it...
>
> I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least w/o a
> collector failure like a hole).
>
> IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc...
I'll note that while the furnace isn't supposed to be picking up
circulation air, there are always some leaks...
damian penney wrote:
>
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > "damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living
> room
> > > which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air
> > > from the basement.
> > >
> > The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without a
> DC. Use
> > the 5 micron bags and it will help.
>
> Hmmm, it's sounding as though this isn't a great idea... Is there
> anyway to make it work? Sure would be nice to have the DC outside the
> shop and the basement is perfectly located.
>
Best bet is to build a closet to hold it--contains dust and minimizes
noise as well...
damian penney wrote:
...
>
> How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I just vent
> the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the input
> here guys.
Would depend on the relative sizes of the DC and the
enclosure...ideally, an exterior vent would be the best route for inside
a dwelling...Otherwise, you do still have a potential problem w/
capturing the fines.
"damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
> not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for
> this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> house which is well ventilated.
>
> Damian
Remember, A DC will add positive air pressure to an enclosed basement. Your
furnace should only be using outside air for combustion so the dust *should*
not be an issue. I would build an enclosure for it in the basement, vent
the enclosure to the outside with a 12" tube. This should solve the
positive air problem and vent most of the fine duct particles.
You might consider putting a cyclone outside so that empting the sawdust is
not a big issue as well.
Dave
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
On 7 Mar 2005 13:59:06 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>damian penney wrote:
>> Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
>> furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
>> not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough
>for
>> this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
>> house which is well ventilated.
>>
>
>The exhaust from the DC should be clean enough to not worry about
>an explosion hazard unless you shake a lot of dust into the air
>when you are emptying it.
>
>Over the years folks here on rec.WW have done the arithmetic and
>shown that normal woodworking operations, dust collection and so
>on do not generate dust fast enough to create an explosive
>atmosphere under steady state conditions.
>
>However if dust accumulates somewhere and then lets go all
>at once the assumption of steady state conditions is violated
>and the concentration fo air could momentarily reach the
>lower inflammible limit--the whumphf threshold.
ayup. one way you could approach that limit with home shop dust
collection equipment is to use your DC to suck up a big pile of
sawdust. 'course, you still need a source of ignition- which could be
a bit of metal in the pile hitting the impeller. the most likely
result would be a smoldering fire in the bag, but that's enough to
take out your house. so be careful....
There seems to be confusion in many of the replies about where air comes
from and goes. The air being heated and circulated comes through the
furnace ducting, and may or may not include air from/to the basement. In
the case of my furnace, combustion air comes from the room the furnace is
in, and is vented to a chimney when it leaves, taking combustion products
with it. Combustion air does not circulate through the house unless you
have a leak. If that happens, you will smell it and should get it fixed
asap.
I ran a dust collector in the same basement room as the furnace for years,
with no problems. I did have the dust collector as far from the furnace as
possible. I also had an air cleaner with 3 levels of filtering; the initial
furnace filter was the only one that ever had to be cleaned or replaced.
Good luck,
Steve
"damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
> not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for
> this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> house which is well ventilated.
>
> Damian
>
I don't foresee a problem. My DC is within 10' of my furnace in the
basement. I do keep a cover over the filter slot just in case.
Hope this helps.
Joe
damian penney wrote:
> Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
> furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
> not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for
> this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
> house which is well ventilated.
>
> Damian
>
This is not a good idea. A DC is best in a far corner of the room. I
walled off the "utility" area in the basement and installed a pre-hung
exterior door to get a good seal. Dust buildup in a furnace is not
good, plus this is a way to spread the dust to upper floors.
On 7 Mar 2005 07:17:43 -0800, "damian penney" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
>furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but
>not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for
>this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the
>house which is well ventilated.
>
>Damian
on 3/7/2005 1:19 PM Clint said the following:
> Of course, if you vent it outside, you're heating or cooling all that air
> that you need to bring back inside to replace the 1200cfm... Could get a
> little pricy.
I'm considering a DC for my shop but not that keen about a) putting the
DC IN the shop and b) now that the shop is heated I really don't want to
heat the great outdoors.
I'm thinking along the lines of either a "chase" built onto the back of
the garage or a closet built into existing space inside the garage (shop
is a separate insulated 13x24 room with 2½ car garage under the same
roof) which would be insulated and have one or more vents leading right
back into the shop thus venting the "clean" exhaust from the DC right
back into the shop. Insulated door to the outside to allow for emptying
the DC.
I'm thinking a couple of regular furnace filters snapped into frames
that would sit between the stud wall which would be opened up and
fire-stopped to allow for the flow of air.
Not 100% but better than anything else I can think of at the moment.
Anyone else tried this or have a better suggestion? Like anyone else, I
just don't want to tie up any floor space in the shop with a DC when it
could better be used for bench or tool space.
Of course, if you vent it outside, you're heating or cooling all that air
that you need to bring back inside to replace the 1200cfm... Could get a
little pricy.
Clint
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> damian penney wrote:
> ...
> >
> > How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I just vent
> > the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the input
> > here guys.
>
> Would depend on the relative sizes of the DC and the
> enclosure...ideally, an exterior vent would be the best route for inside
> a dwelling...Otherwise, you do still have a potential problem w/
> capturing the fines.
on 3/7/2005 9:40 AM damian penney said the following:
> Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room
> which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air
> from the basement.
>
Whoa! Apples and oranges.
First, the air being heated, IF (and I stress this since the OP did not
say he had forced air heat) it's a forced air system is essentially a
closed system relative to the firebox. The air drawn in by the cold air
return is reheated and recirculated in the plenum which is separate and
apart from the the combusion ongoing with a gas or oil-fired furnace.
The air for combustion will be drawn in from either the immediate area
of the furnace or, in the case of newer furnaces, from the outside. The
exhaust will go outside. In the case of the latter, there's probably
little chance of there being a problem with the DC other than - as
someone else posted - some of the dust being sucked in to the cold air
return (if there happens to be one in the area of the furnace and spread
all over SWMBO's domain. Bad ju-ju for sure.
If it's hydronic heat there's no problem with the furnace circulating
dust but the cautions about the dust being ignited by the combustion
process still apply dependent upon the type of the system.
I'm guessing but unless there was a helluva lot of dust in the air I
don't think it would be a fire safety problem. If he hasn't been
"launched" yet, I doubt adding dust collector to the mix would increase
his odds; likely they'd decrease since, after all, the dust is already
present in all its various sizes. Add the DC and all you have left is
the very smallest amounts.
"damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room
> which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air
> from the basement.
>
The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without a DC. Use
the 5 micron bags and it will help.