solid red oak vs. red oak plywood colour difference

Just the simple fact that 8 or 10 species of Oak are called Red Oak
and that every tree is different, you will get some differentiation
with wood from different sources. However, the biggest factor is
likely sanding.

Plywood will come sanded to about 220 very consistently. You should
back down to 150 and hand sand it coming back to 220. Do the same with
your solid wood. Then do some testing. You can tone whichever is
lighter with some slight coloration, then stain both with the darker
color. You can also tone the lighter faces after the initial dark
staining. You can simply dilute the dark stain and do a reapplication
to the lighter surface to tone it darker.

Be very careful and create a formula that works on test pieces.
Something like, stain both, let dry, re-staing lighter piece with 20%
dilution of original stain.

You can't tell while it's wet so you need to do tests, keep notes and
let things dry completly You also need to see the final finish. Things
that look like the match well can change when you add a clear lacquer
or ploy or shellac, etc. So test and develop a formula.


On Jul 16, 2:35=A0am, Student <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am practicing frame and panel doors. I assembled a small one, where
> frame is a solid red oak and the panel 1/4" red oak plywood. I only
> applied a danish oil finish, natural, no stain. Then I noticed that
> the plywood is much darker than the solid wood, the difference that
> wasn't noticeable before applying the finish.
>
> I assembled another door. While cleaning the polyurethane glue off the
> door with the paint thinner, I noticed that the reddish color came off
> the plywood when I swiped it with the paint thinner cloth. Are
> plywoods stained? Is this a natural wood pigment that comes out
> because of the very thin veneer?
>
> Please tell me: Other than applying darker stain, is there a way to
> keep the same natural color of plywood and solid oak after the finish?
> Many thanks.

On Jul 16, 5:35=A0am, Student <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am practicing frame and panel doors. I assembled a small one, where
> frame is a solid red oak and the panel 1/4" red oak plywood. I only
> applied a danish oil finish, natural, no stain. Then I noticed that
> the plywood is much darker than the solid wood, the difference that
> wasn't noticeable before applying the finish.
>
> I assembled another door. While cleaning the polyurethane glue off the
> door with the paint thinner, I noticed that the reddish color came off
> the plywood when I swiped it with the paint thinner cloth. Are
> plywoods stained? Is this a natural wood pigment that comes out
> because of the very thin veneer?
>
> Please tell me: Other than applying darker stain, is there a way to
> keep the same natural color of plywood and solid oak after the finish?
> Many thanks.

I used to sell, manufacture and install 'builders kitchens'. Low cost,
not too bad to look at, and almost always 5 piece doors with oak
frames and oak plywood panels. (An upgrade was solid wood raised
panels.)
I tried many suppliers of doors, and that combo of solid frame/plywood
always showed different colours between them.
After a few thousand doors, you get to minimize that effect by
applying very light, thin-thin coats of anything that might otherwise
soak the thin oak veneer down to the glue layer. I found that made all
the difference: do not make the plywood too wet. The finish has
nowhere to go after it hits the glue beneath the veneer.......nowadays
that'd be what? 40th or 64th of an inch? The solid wood frame,
however, deals with 'wet' in a totally different way. Also in the way
it dries.

The best results I got with ply-panel doors was a clear finish... step
WAAAY back with a progression of sanding sealer sprays ever so lightly
until a barrier layer was built up protecting the plywood from being
soaked.

Then, when the client requested it, I would apply tinted lacquers for
colour.

Red dust? Too much sanding going on me thinks.

On Jul 16, 9:22=A0am, Robatoy <Counterf
> After a few thousand doors, you get to minimize that effect by
> applying very light, thin-thin coats of anything that might otherwise
> soak the thin oak veneer down to the glue layer. I found that made all
> the difference: do not make the plywood too wet. The finish has
> nowhere to go after it hits the glue beneath the veneer.......nowadays
> that'd be what? 40th or 64th of an inch? The solid wood frame,
> however, deals with 'wet' in a totally different way. Also in the way
> it dries.

Fair point, but get this: When I applied the same danish oil finish to
the 3/4" plywood, with the same thinner-than-razor veneer as pm mu
1/4" panel, the colour was much closer, almost indistinguishable from
the solid wood.

>
> Red dust? Too much sanding going on me thinks.

I think I figured this one out: I noticed that they applied a wood
filler, stained in red oak - obviously their veneer wasn't top grade.
So when I wiped it with the thinner, it took off some of that color.
And that perhaps has most to do with the color difference between my
solid wood frame and the plywood panel. Since danish oil is rubbed in,
it smears around the coloured filler.

"Student" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Please tell me: Other than applying darker stain, is there a way to
> keep the same natural color of plywood and solid oak after the finish?
> Many thanks.

Get a different piece of plywood. I'd done projects with wood trim for the
edges and plywood for panels with no big differences. Every tree, or even
parts of a tree, will have variations in color and grain. Since what you
have are from two different trees, two different forests, the colors will
vary.

Another factor is UV. Was the plywood exposed to light for a long period?
Was it sanded? If not, it may be some darkening from age, but sanding
usually refreshes the surface. Caution: Don't sand through the paper thin
covering veneer.

On Jul 17, 6:31=A0am, Student <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:22=A0am, Robatoy <Counterf
>
> > After a few thousand doors, you get to minimize that effect by
> > applying very light, thin-thin coats of anything that might otherwise
> > soak the thin oak veneer down to the glue layer. I found that made all
> > the difference: do not make the plywood too wet. The finish has
> > nowhere to go after it hits the glue beneath the veneer.......nowadays
> > that'd be what? 40th or 64th of an inch? The solid wood frame,
> > however, deals with 'wet' in a totally different way. Also in the way
> > it dries.
>
> Fair point, but get this: When I applied the same danish oil finish to
> the 3/4" plywood, with the same thinner-than-razor veneer as pm mu
> 1/4" panel, the colour was much closer, almost indistinguishable from
> the solid wood.
>
>
>
> > Red dust? Too much sanding going on me thinks.
>
> I think I figured this one out: I noticed that they applied a wood
> filler, stained in red oak - obviously their veneer wasn't top grade.
> So when I wiped it with the thinner, it took off some of that color.
> And that perhaps has most to do with the color difference between my
> solid wood frame and the plywood panel. Since danish oil is rubbed in,
> it smears around the coloured filler.

That filler would/could be all the reasons why you are having a colour
problem. Crappy plywood. Period.
I seem to recall having sent back a load of 1/4" sheets (I used them
for gable ends and island faces) because of sub-standard veneer with
filled patches. I think you found your answer. *S*
Try another and get back to us.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:35:03 -0700 (PDT), Student
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I am practicing frame and panel doors. I assembled a small one, where
>frame is a solid red oak and the panel 1/4" red oak plywood. I only
>applied a danish oil finish, natural, no stain. Then I noticed that
>the plywood is much darker than the solid wood, the difference that
>wasn't noticeable before applying the finish.
>

Unless wood is from the same tree, matching color and pattern can be
difficult or nearly impossible.


>I assembled another door. While cleaning the polyurethane glue off the
>door with the paint thinner, I noticed that the reddish color came off
>the plywood when I swiped it with the paint thinner cloth. Are
>plywoods stained? Is this a natural wood pigment that comes out
>because of the very thin veneer?

Maybe. I have not heard manufacturer's staining ply, nor have I
experienced this. A rag dampened with thinner should not wipe off any
color.

>
>Please tell me: Other than applying darker stain, is there a way to
>keep the same natural color of plywood and solid oak after the finish?
>Many thanks.

There are numerous books about finishing. Generally, to even out
color differences the piece is stained.

Student wrote:
> I am practicing frame and panel doors. I assembled a small one, where
> frame is a solid red oak and the panel 1/4" red oak plywood. I only
> applied a danish oil finish, natural, no stain. Then I noticed that
> the plywood is much darker than the solid wood, the difference that
> wasn't noticeable before applying the finish.
>
> I assembled another door. While cleaning the polyurethane glue off the
> door with the paint thinner, I noticed that the reddish color came off
> the plywood when I swiped it with the paint thinner cloth. Are
> plywoods stained? Is this a natural wood pigment that comes out
> because of the very thin veneer?
>
> Please tell me: Other than applying darker stain, is there a way to
> keep the same natural color of plywood and solid oak after the finish?
> Many thanks.

Some or possibly much of the difference may be in the sanding -- did you
sand both the frame and panel to the same grit? If you sanded the frame
very well, it may be smoother and hence less absorbent than the panels.

For finishing w/o staining at all, may still need to experiment w/ a
sanding sealer on the ply or a cut shellac to obtain better match.

As phisherman says, a light stain may help; again you may need the
sealer first.

You'll have to experiment w/ the actual materials to learn what will
work for the particular pieces of material and the desired effects--it's
always a variable situation...you at least were still on practice pieces
instead of the real thing.

--

"Student" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am practicing frame and panel doors. I assembled a small one, where
> frame is a solid red oak and the panel 1/4" red oak plywood. I only
> applied a danish oil finish, natural, no stain. Then I noticed that
> the plywood is much darker than the solid wood, the difference that
> wasn't noticeable before applying the finish.
>
> I assembled another door. While cleaning the polyurethane glue off the
> door with the paint thinner, I noticed that the reddish color came off
> the plywood when I swiped it with the paint thinner cloth. Are
> plywoods stained? Is this a natural wood pigment that comes out
> because of the very thin veneer?
>
> Please tell me: Other than applying darker stain, is there a way to
> keep the same natural color of plywood and solid oak after the finish?
> Many thanks.


Is your plywood panel oak on both sides? Often thinner oak plywood had Luan
on the back side. Luan is a red colored wood. Typically Red Oak will look
"Pinkish" when sanded but that color goes away when the finish is applied.