Where and Why you can use wax containing silicon(e)

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:59:27 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
>Should we, or should we not, allow strippers and porn stars into our
>shops.

If I ever get the chance to make the decision, I'll post it.

Barry

ROFLMAO!!!!

Tom Watson wrote:

>
> I offer this as a handy mnemonic:
>
>
>
> Silicon Carbide's abrasive and rough
>
> Silicone Titties are soft but they're tough
>
> Silicone substances near to your finish
>
> Can do for your furniture naught but diminish
>
>
> (burma shave)
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Tom.
>
> Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"MikeG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>The recent thread on waxing a saw table and the repeated frantic
>warnings there in about the evils of silicone, or is it silicon, I can
>never remember which is which, well, no matter, suffice to say it got me
>thinking about the stuff and I thought I'd add a little clarification
>for the newbies.

Silicone is used as a lubricant. Silicon is a substance found in glass and
is use in the computer industry.

>
> Silicon(e) is tenacious stuff and if it did get on your saw table or any
> tool for that matter it is not only difficult to get rid of but it will
> transfer to any wood passing over the contamination.

The problem with that anoligy is that silicone typically can not be seen
after the delivery medium has evaporated. You don't kow where it will end
up. Still, I have to go with the idea of keeping it out of the shop.

>
> Now I'm not advocating using anything with silicone and feel it should
> not be used as a lubricant in a wood shop. However, when you stop and
> think about, it not using a wax because it may contain silicone is
> somewhat like the warning not to use steel wool when using water based
> finishes. The blanket warnings overlooks the whole story.

Think about that again. If you use steel wool between coats of a water
based finish, you will have small pieces of the steel wool break off and
lodge or imbed into the pores of the wood. Red Oak having large pores is
especially bad about traping small pieces of steel wool in the pores.
Regardless of how well you think that you wipe, tack, or blow off the
surface, the pieces that are trapped in the pores or the joints will rust
when the next water based coat goes on. Better to use Sctoch Brite pads to
scuff the previous layer.

>
> Steel wood can be safely used on a water based finish ON and AFTER the
> last coat has cured since the water causing rust has evaporated.

True but not between coats.

> Likewise, by the time you get to applying a wax containing silicone to a
> finish your finish is on, cured and you are long past the point where
> the silicon(e) will cause any problem. Silicon(e) has no adverse effect
> on a finished finish.

Granted you can use a wax on a finished surface but as with your opening
paragraph, you do not want to use it to reduce friction or protect you TS
table top.


> In other words, with a little care to isolate the wax from getting
> spread all over the shop there is absolutely no reason why you can't use
> your favorite car wax or other polish, silicon(e) or no, to bring out
> the shine and protect your finial finish.

I am not sure that that was ever in question or an issue.

Leon wrote:

>
> "MikeG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The recent thread on waxing a saw table and the repeated frantic
>>warnings there in about the evils of silicone, or is it silicon, I can
>>never remember which is which, well, no matter, suffice to say it got me
>>thinking about the stuff and I thought I'd add a little clarification
>>for the newbies.
>
> Silicone is used as a lubricant. Silicon is a substance found in glass
> and is use in the computer industry.

More precisely, "silicon" is an element from which various compounds may be
constructed--its chemistry is complex and the range of silicon-based
compounds is almost as great as the range of organic compounds. "Silicone"
is a large family of polymers based on a silicon-oxygen backbone, some of
which are useful as lubricants, some as adhesives, some as sealants, and so
on.

>> Silicon(e) is tenacious stuff and if it did get on your saw table or any
>> tool for that matter it is not only difficult to get rid of but it will
>> transfer to any wood passing over the contamination.
>
> The problem with that anoligy is that silicone typically can not be seen
> after the delivery medium has evaporated. You don't kow where it will
> end
> up. Still, I have to go with the idea of keeping it out of the shop.

I don't see any analogy there, you both said pretty much the same thing in
different words.

>> Now I'm not advocating using anything with silicone and feel it should
>> not be used as a lubricant in a wood shop. However, when you stop and
>> think about, it not using a wax because it may contain silicone is
>> somewhat like the warning not to use steel wool when using water based
>> finishes. The blanket warnings overlooks the whole story.
>
> Think about that again. If you use steel wool between coats of a water
> based finish, you will have small pieces of the steel wool break off and
> lodge or imbed into the pores of the wood. Red Oak having large pores is
> especially bad about traping small pieces of steel wool in the pores.
> Regardless of how well you think that you wipe, tack, or blow off the
> surface, the pieces that are trapped in the pores or the joints will rust
> when the next water based coat goes on. Better to use Sctoch Brite pads
> to scuff the previous layer.
>
>>
>> Steel wood can be safely used on a water based finish ON and AFTER the
>> last coat has cured since the water causing rust has evaporated.
>
> True but not between coats.
>
>> Likewise, by the time you get to applying a wax containing silicone to a
>> finish your finish is on, cured and you are long past the point where
>> the silicon(e) will cause any problem. Silicon(e) has no adverse effect
>> on a finished finish.
>
> Granted you can use a wax on a finished surface but as with your opening
> paragraph, you do not want to use it to reduce friction or protect you TS
> table top.

My concern with using silicone on top of a cured finish is that you're
likely to have a mess on your hands if you ever need to repair that finish.

>> In other words, with a little care to isolate the wax from getting
>> spread all over the shop there is absolutely no reason why you can't use
>> your favorite car wax or other polish, silicon(e) or no, to bring out
>> the shine and protect your finial finish.
>
> I am not sure that that was ever in question or an issue.

While it's true that with care you can use silicone waxes, why bother using
something that requires that level of care when there are other waxes that
work as well and do not present that same risk of contamination?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>You may laugh but this addresses a serious issue in WoodDorking.
>
>Should we, or should we not, allow strippers and porn stars into our
>shops.

I'm ambivalent about porn stars, but when refinishing furniture
strippers are (nearly) essential.

> ...
>So, and I have run this by my wife, ...

On this point, I've run away from my wife ...
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 14:59:37 -0400, MikeG <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>The recent thread on waxing a saw table and the repeated frantic
>warnings there in about the evils of silicone, or is it silicon, I can
>never remember which is which, well, no matter, suffice to say it got me
>thinking about the stuff and I thought I'd add a little clarification
>for the newbies.

I offer this as a handy mnemonic:



Silicon Carbide's abrasive and rough

Silicone Titties are soft but they're tough

Silicone substances near to your finish

Can do for your furniture naught but diminish


(burma shave)




Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"MikeG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> ...Likewise, by the time you get to applying a wax containing silicone to
a
> finish your finish is on, cured and you are long past the point where
> the silicon(e) will cause any problem. Silicon(e) has no adverse effect
> on a finished finish.
>
> In other words, with a little care to isolate the wax from getting
> spread all over the shop there is absolutely no reason why you can't use
> your favorite car wax or other polish, silicon(e) or no, to bring out
> the shine and protect your finial finish.
>
> Just a thought, have fun with it.
>
> --
> MikeG
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> [email protected]

I'm not so sure I agree. In a perfect world, silicone polishes/waxes
would not penetrate a film finish. Unfortunately, over time, it will
eventually penetrate the micropores that eventually form in the finish. I
am assuming that a silicone containing polish is used regularly. Even when
stripping off the finish, measures would have to be taken to keep the
silicone on the surface from contaminating the stripped wood. Basically,
the silicone creates more work.
Having said the above, many professional furniture refinishers
automatically assume that all furniture has been contaminated with silicone
and take the appropriate measures both when stripping off the finish and
again when applying a new one.

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:29:51 GMT, "Mark L." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>ROFLMAO!!!!
>
>Tom Watson wrote:
>
>>
>> I offer this as a handy mnemonic:
>>
>>
>>
>> Silicon Carbide's abrasive and rough
>>
>> Silicone Titties are soft but they're tough
>>
>> Silicone substances near to your finish
>>
>> Can do for your furniture naught but diminish
>>
>>
>> (burma shave)


You may laugh but this addresses a serious issue in WoodDorking.

Should we, or should we not, allow strippers and porn stars into our
shops.

Let's say one of them sprung a leak whilst watching us work our wood.

Absolute Freaking Disaster.

Why, given the current climate of paranoia over having silicone
anywheres near yer wooddorking - we would prolly have to burn down the
shop and start over again - all because of an unexpected visit by a
pornstar/wooddorker to our facility.

So, and I have run this by my wife, I am of a mind to allow no more
pornstar/wooddorkers into my shop. She (my wife) agrees that this is
simply good practice.

I'll tell you, I'll miss them. They brought so much to the
environment and added immeasurably to my enjoyment of the process.

Still, sacrifices must be made in the pursuit of art.


sigh...





Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


> My concern with using silicone on top of a cured finish is that you're
> likely to have a mess on your hands if you ever need to repair that
finish.

Yeah....

> >> In other words, with a little care to isolate the wax from getting
> >> spread all over the shop there is absolutely no reason why you can't
use
> >> your favorite car wax or other polish, silicon(e) or no, to bring out
> >> the shine and protect your finial finish.
> >
> > I am not sure that that was ever in question or an issue.
>
> While it's true that with care you can use silicone waxes, why bother
using
> something that requires that level of care when there are other waxes that
> work as well and do not present that same risk of contamination?

Yeah... You can store rat poison right in there with your other herbs and
spices and it will be totally safe as long as you don't accidentally use it
in your food preparation. Why take the chance? Keep it totally out of the
picture and eliminate that constant.