Hello all,
Having run out of ideas for the moment, I would like to pick the minds
of the group. I have been searching for the answer with google, but
not sure if I am finding the right ones.
For some background info, I had several posts awhile back about the
Grizzly G0444Z TS which I ended up getting. Like it a lot. Thought
it was set up properly and have been using it to do some remodeling
around the house.
The problem: Recently had occasion to make 45 degree miters to put up
some chair rail. Making the cut with the face of the trim up on a
crosscut sled (which seems to cut square to about 1/32" in about 6 or
7' using a 5 cut test). Once I did some test cuts to get 45 degrees
correctly, I looked at the piece and noticed that it looked off. Set
a square (which is pretty square) on the edge of the trim with the
other arm across the cut I just made...big gap on one edge (seriously
around 1/16" or more in about 3"). WTF??? A straight cut produces no
noticable gap across the cut edge, so why would the miter cut?
Finished my cuts by making the sled fence square to the blade and
making the cuts. Is this the only answer? A fence that is not square
to the blade once you tilt the blade?
The blade measures parallel to the miter slots, although now it is not
since I have been messing with the under works to try to solve this
issue. Thought maybe it needed a shim in the trunnion mounting bolt.
But a shim in the one that seemed appropriate to move the alignment of
the blade to throw things more in alignment. Did not change the
outcome at all.
Sorry for the long post, not sure what to check or what to change.
Although I do need to realign the blade parallel to the miter slots
again now from fussing with the trunnion bolts in the rear of the saw.
Many thanks in advance.
Jeff
To correct that you need to shim the table. This is a tune-up item which
almost always needs attention, but seems to be always missed in the
literature. You will need to shim either the front or the back of the table
to get the table level with the trunion. It can be a trick to get it level
and aligned with the slots and you will need to start from scratch with your
tune-up. I suggest shimming it first to figure out what's needed, then with
the shims in place work on alignment with the miter slots.
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop
"Jeff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello all,
>
> Having run out of ideas for the moment, I would like to pick the minds
> of the group. I have been searching for the answer with google, but
> not sure if I am finding the right ones.
>
> For some background info, I had several posts awhile back about the
> Grizzly G0444Z TS which I ended up getting. Like it a lot. Thought
> it was set up properly and have been using it to do some remodeling
> around the house.
>
> The problem: Recently had occasion to make 45 degree miters to put up
> some chair rail. Making the cut with the face of the trim up on a
> crosscut sled (which seems to cut square to about 1/32" in about 6 or
> 7' using a 5 cut test). Once I did some test cuts to get 45 degrees
> correctly, I looked at the piece and noticed that it looked off. Set
> a square (which is pretty square) on the edge of the trim with the
> other arm across the cut I just made...big gap on one edge (seriously
> around 1/16" or more in about 3"). WTF??? A straight cut produces no
> noticable gap across the cut edge, so why would the miter cut?
>
> Finished my cuts by making the sled fence square to the blade and
> making the cuts. Is this the only answer? A fence that is not square
> to the blade once you tilt the blade?
>
> The blade measures parallel to the miter slots, although now it is not
> since I have been messing with the under works to try to solve this
> issue. Thought maybe it needed a shim in the trunnion mounting bolt.
> But a shim in the one that seemed appropriate to move the alignment of
> the blade to throw things more in alignment. Did not change the
> outcome at all.
>
> Sorry for the long post, not sure what to check or what to change.
> Although I do need to realign the blade parallel to the miter slots
> again now from fussing with the trunnion bolts in the rear of the saw.
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Jeff
You're making the cut with the blade tilted? Try with a fence at 45 on
your sled, sandpaper on the fence, deathgrip on the piece, and either
register firmly and consistently toward the blade or away to compensate for
gage slop.
Then tell me why you're not coping those moldings.
"Jeff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The problem: Recently had occasion to make 45 degree miters to put up
> some chair rail. Making the cut with the face of the trim up on a
> crosscut sled (which seems to cut square to about 1/32" in about 6 or
> 7' using a 5 cut test). Once I did some test cuts to get 45 degrees
> correctly, I looked at the piece and noticed that it looked off. Set
> a square (which is pretty square) on the edge of the trim with the
> other arm across the cut I just made...big gap on one edge (seriously
> around 1/16" or more in about 3"). WTF??? A straight cut produces no
> noticable gap across the cut edge, so why would the miter cut?
>
Jeff,
Obviously there are several things that can cause your miter cuts to be off
and it sounds like you're aware of the most probable alignment problems.
But let me give you a couple of simpler things to look for after you get the
alignment done and find you still have the same problem.
1. Are you using a thin-kerf blade ? If so, when it hits the stock does the
blade start to flutter a little ? If so, add a 4" or 5" stabilizer to the
blade or better yet - use a 1/8" kerf blade (60-80 tooth).
2. Is your stock slipping as it goes thru the blade ? The tiniest amount of
slippage will create a gap. Get a roll of self-stick sandpaper and add it to
your miter fence face and also clamp the stock down.
3. Any slop in your miter gauge or sled that would allow it rotate slightly
? It doesn't take much to get a gap in a miter cut....
You'll probably find that its a combination of all the above plus your
alignment and then add in your shop made sled and you can get real
confused - quickly. So do the alignment procedures by the book and pay
attention to the details.
Bob S.
"Jeff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello all,
>
> Having run out of ideas for the moment, I would like to pick the minds
> of the group. I have been searching for the answer with google, but
> not sure if I am finding the right ones.
>
> For some background info, I had several posts awhile back about the
> Grizzly G0444Z TS which I ended up getting. Like it a lot. Thought
> it was set up properly and have been using it to do some remodeling
> around the house.
>
> The problem: Recently had occasion to make 45 degree miters to put up
> some chair rail. Making the cut with the face of the trim up on a
> crosscut sled (which seems to cut square to about 1/32" in about 6 or
> 7' using a 5 cut test). Once I did some test cuts to get 45 degrees
> correctly, I looked at the piece and noticed that it looked off. Set
> a square (which is pretty square) on the edge of the trim with the
> other arm across the cut I just made...big gap on one edge (seriously
> around 1/16" or more in about 3"). WTF??? A straight cut produces no
> noticable gap across the cut edge, so why would the miter cut?
>
> Finished my cuts by making the sled fence square to the blade and
> making the cuts. Is this the only answer? A fence that is not square
> to the blade once you tilt the blade?
>
> The blade measures parallel to the miter slots, although now it is not
> since I have been messing with the under works to try to solve this
> issue. Thought maybe it needed a shim in the trunnion mounting bolt.
> But a shim in the one that seemed appropriate to move the alignment of
> the blade to throw things more in alignment. Did not change the
> outcome at all.
>
> Sorry for the long post, not sure what to check or what to change.
> Although I do need to realign the blade parallel to the miter slots
> again now from fussing with the trunnion bolts in the rear of the saw.
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Jeff
Thanks for the reply,
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Jeff,
>
> Obviously there are several things that can cause your miter cuts to be off
> and it sounds like you're aware of the most probable alignment problems.
> But let me give you a couple of simpler things to look for after you get the
> alignment done and find you still have the same problem.
>
> 1. Are you using a thin-kerf blade ? If so, when it hits the stock does the
> blade start to flutter a little ? If so, add a 4" or 5" stabilizer to the
> blade or better yet - use a 1/8" kerf blade (60-80 tooth).
I am using a full or 1/8" kerf blade, although it is only a 40 tooth.
>
> 2. Is your stock slipping as it goes thru the blade ? The tiniest amount of
> slippage will create a gap. Get a roll of self-stick sandpaper and add it to
> your miter fence face and also clamp the stock down.
I don't think it is, I will try a clamped cut when I get things parallel again.
>
> 3. Any slop in your miter gauge or sled that would allow it rotate slightly
> ? It doesn't take much to get a gap in a miter cut....
Could be just the slightest bit of side to side slop, but not too much I hope.
>
> You'll probably find that its a combination of all the above plus your
> alignment and then add in your shop made sled and you can get real
> confused - quickly. So do the alignment procedures by the book and pay
> attention to the details.
>
> Bob S.
>
>
>
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:56:08 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >Then tell me why you're not coping those moldings.
> >
>
> Outside corners?
>
> Barry
We have a winner folks.
"Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> To correct that you need to shim the table. This is a tune-up item which
> almost always needs attention, but seems to be always missed in the
> literature. You will need to shim either the front or the back of the table
> to get the table level with the trunion. It can be a trick to get it level
> and aligned with the slots and you will need to start from scratch with your
> tune-up. I suggest shimming it first to figure out what's needed, then with
> the shims in place work on alignment with the miter slots.
>
>
To all, thanks for the tips and emailed links. Read all the info and
started from scratch doing the setup again last night and this
morning.
So it turns out that I was not using a thick enough shim. The manual
said "use very thin shims..." Ended up with a large washer under the
rear trunion bolts. Seems to measure much closer to parallel now at
90 and 45 degrees than before. Although absnet a dial indicator, I
have a nice scale with 64th markings. Cannot see a difference in the
measurements now.
Was a bit early for a test cut before going to work, but I think it
will turn out favorable this weekend. If not, I will be cursing the
saw here on monday. Till then.
Jeff
"Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> To correct that you need to shim the table. This is a tune-up item which
> almost always needs attention, but seems to be always missed in the
> literature. You will need to shim either the front or the back of the table
> to get the table level with the trunion. It can be a trick to get it level
> and aligned with the slots and you will need to start from scratch with your
> tune-up. I suggest shimming it first to figure out what's needed, then with
> the shims in place work on alignment with the miter slots.
>
>
To all, thanks for the tips and emailed links. Read all the info and
started from scratch doing the setup again last night and this
morning.
So it turns out that I was not using a thick enough shim. The manual
said "use very thin shims..." Ended up with a large washer under the
rear trunion bolts. Seems to measure much closer to parallel now at
90 and 45 degrees than before. Although absnet a dial indicator, I
have a nice scale with 64th markings. Cannot see a difference in the
measurements now.
Was a bit early for a test cut before going to work, but I think it
will turn out favorable this weekend. If not, I will be cursing the
saw here on monday. Till then.
Jeff
Old Nick <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 17 Jun 2004 05:50:08 -0700, [email protected] (Jeff) vaguely
> proposed a theory
> ......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
> Moot, but are you cutting a mitre or a bevel? Is the blade tilted to
> do this (bevel)?
>
It is a miter cut
> My saw measures dead accurate to the slots if at 90 deg but is out by
> 1/64th across the blade if I tilt to 45 deg. Having a hate affair with
> the saw at the moment, so I am not sure if I can fix this.
>
> To add to that I also have had trouble with mitre cutting as you
> describe, even though I have clamped etc.
>
> Have you tried cutting a similar sized piece of MDF (non coated with
> plastic)? I get good cuts from that, but not from timber. I can only
> conclude that the timber is warped, or bent.
I have not tried this, don't actually have any laying around. If I
don't get better results with the new alignment, I will try that, good
tip.
>
> >Finished my cuts by making the sled fence square to the blade and
> >making the cuts. Is this the only answer? A fence that is not square
> >to the blade once you tilt the blade?
> >
> >The blade measures parallel to the miter slots, although now it is not
> >since I have been messing with the under works to try to solve this
> >issue. Thought maybe it needed a shim in the trunnion mounting bolt.
> >But a shim in the one that seemed appropriate to move the alignment of
> >the blade to throw things more in alignment. Did not change the
> >outcome at all.
Old Nick <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 17 Jun 2004 05:50:08 -0700, [email protected] (Jeff) vaguely
> proposed a theory
> ......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
> Moot, but are you cutting a mitre or a bevel? Is the blade tilted to
> do this (bevel)?
it is a miter cut
>
> My saw measures dead accurate to the slots if at 90 deg but is out by
> 1/64th across the blade if I tilt to 45 deg. Having a hate affair with
> the saw at the moment, so I am not sure if I can fix this.
>
> To add to that I also have had trouble with mitre cutting as you
> describe, even though I have clamped etc.
>
> Have you tried cutting a similar sized piece of MDF (non coated with
> plastic)? I get good cuts from that, but not from timber. I can only
> conclude that the timber is warped, or bent.
Have not tried this, but will have to pick up a piece of the stuff if
I don't have better results with the new alignment. good point
>
> >Finished my cuts by making the sled fence square to the blade and
> >making the cuts. Is this the only answer? A fence that is not square
> >to the blade once you tilt the blade?
> >
> >The blade measures parallel to the miter slots, although now it is not
> >since I have been messing with the under works to try to solve this
> >issue. Thought maybe it needed a shim in the trunnion mounting bolt.
> >But a shim in the one that seemed appropriate to move the alignment of
> >the blade to throw things more in alignment. Did not change the
> >outcome at all.
Well, the saga continues. Made all the adjustments and fired the saw
back up, LOTS of vibration, I mean a lot. Shut it off and started to
scratch my head. Found a bolt in the sawdust pile inside the saw that
belonged in the top of the arbor assembly according to a lengthy
search in the saw's manual. Put that back in, still some vibration
(more than there used to be).
The vibration is when the saw is under no load at 90 degrees. I can
completely stop the vibration by pushing down on the rear support bar
for the guard/splitter which is coming out of the rear trunnion area.
Nothing is loose after the adjustments, there is no noticable slop,
any ideas on the newest bit of fun??
Thanks again.
For what its worth, a 45 degree miter cut comes out square now, guess
that is an improvement.
[email protected] (Henry E Schaffer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
> >The vibration is when the saw is under no load at 90 degrees. I can
> >completely stop the vibration by pushing down on the rear support bar
> >for the guard/splitter which is coming out of the rear trunnion area.
> >Nothing is loose after the adjustments, there is no noticable slop,
> >any ideas on the newest bit of fun??
>
> Sounds as if the rear support bar is touching something - and that
> you're hearing the two pieces of metal hitting each other. So look
> (with the saw off and unplugged) and see what it touches - and see how
> to provide some relief between them.
Thanks for the tip Henry, I will see what I can find.
>
> > ...
> >For what its worth, a 45 degree miter cut comes out square now, guess
> >that is an improvement.
>
> Being 45 degrees off is an improvement?!! :-)
I should have known I would get a smart response from this group!
[email protected] (Jeff) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Henry E Schaffer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > ...
> > >The vibration is when the saw is under no load at 90 degrees. I can
> > >completely stop the vibration by pushing down on the rear support bar
> > >for the guard/splitter which is coming out of the rear trunnion area.
> > >Nothing is loose after the adjustments, there is no noticable slop,
> > >any ideas on the newest bit of fun??
> >
> > Sounds as if the rear support bar is touching something - and that
> > you're hearing the two pieces of metal hitting each other. So look
> > (with the saw off and unplugged) and see what it touches - and see how
> > to provide some relief between them.
>
> Thanks for the tip Henry, I will see what I can find.
From the best I can tell, the entire lower assembly of the arms and
blade can move ever so slightly between the front and rear trunnions
supports. I cannont get anything else to move or hit or find anything
that is rubbing on anything else. I guess that in my realignment, I
got one of the supports shifted a bit to the front or rear. So...
Do I want the two support pieces snug to the lower assembly? This
would seem correct to me, but somebody let me know before I try to
"fix" it again. Can we tell that this is my first table saw??
Thanks again for all the help.
Jeff
[email protected] (Jeff) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Jeff) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Henry E Schaffer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > >The vibration is when the saw is under no load at 90 degrees. I can
> > > >completely stop the vibration by pushing down on the rear support bar
> > > >for the guard/splitter which is coming out of the rear trunnion area.
> > > >Nothing is loose after the adjustments, there is no noticable slop,
> > > >any ideas on the newest bit of fun??
> > >
> > > Sounds as if the rear support bar is touching something - and that
> > > you're hearing the two pieces of metal hitting each other. So look
> > > (with the saw off and unplugged) and see what it touches - and see how
> > > to provide some relief between them.
> >
> > Thanks for the tip Henry, I will see what I can find.
>
> From the best I can tell, the entire lower assembly of the arms and
> blade can move ever so slightly between the front and rear trunnions
> supports. I cannont get anything else to move or hit or find anything
> that is rubbing on anything else. I guess that in my realignment, I
> got one of the supports shifted a bit to the front or rear. So...
>
Anybody?
Do I want the two support pieces snug to the lower assembly? This
would seem correct to me, but somebody let me know before I try to
"fix" it again. Can we tell that this is my first table saw??
Thanks again for all the help.
Jeff
Well, to all who gave suggestions, thanks. The problem has been
fixed. I tried redoing the trunion bolts and making sure that things
were snug before bolting down, no help on the mystery sound and
vibration. Then it hit me while I was half asleep the other morning,
the blade stop for the vertical position had sheared off earlier and
it seemed that having it back in would provide the same type of
holding force that I could make stop the noise by pushing to the side
on the back of the splitter. Worth a try anyway.
So with a new bolt, the saw runs quietly again. Everything lined up
well now. Tested it for many cuts while putting down hardwood floors
over the long weekend. Made probably 100 cuts and no odd noises.
Thanks again.
Jeff
In article <[email protected]>,
Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>The vibration is when the saw is under no load at 90 degrees. I can
>completely stop the vibration by pushing down on the rear support bar
>for the guard/splitter which is coming out of the rear trunnion area.
>Nothing is loose after the adjustments, there is no noticable slop,
>any ideas on the newest bit of fun??
Sounds as if the rear support bar is touching something - and that
you're hearing the two pieces of metal hitting each other. So look
(with the saw off and unplugged) and see what it touches - and see how
to provide some relief between them.
> ...
>For what its worth, a 45 degree miter cut comes out square now, guess
>that is an improvement.
Being 45 degrees off is an improvement?!! :-)
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu
On 17 Jun 2004 05:50:08 -0700, [email protected] (Jeff) vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Moot, but are you cutting a mitre or a bevel? Is the blade tilted to
do this (bevel)?
My saw measures dead accurate to the slots if at 90 deg but is out by
1/64th across the blade if I tilt to 45 deg. Having a hate affair with
the saw at the moment, so I am not sure if I can fix this.
To add to that I also have had trouble with mitre cutting as you
describe, even though I have clamped etc.
Have you tried cutting a similar sized piece of MDF (non coated with
plastic)? I get good cuts from that, but not from timber. I can only
conclude that the timber is warped, or bent.
>Finished my cuts by making the sled fence square to the blade and
>making the cuts. Is this the only answer? A fence that is not square
>to the blade once you tilt the blade?
>
>The blade measures parallel to the miter slots, although now it is not
>since I have been messing with the under works to try to solve this
>issue. Thought maybe it needed a shim in the trunnion mounting bolt.
>But a shim in the one that seemed appropriate to move the alignment of
>the blade to throw things more in alignment. Did not change the
>outcome at all.
On 23 Jun 2004 06:55:52 -0700, [email protected] (Jeff) wrote:
>Anybody?
>Do I want the two support pieces snug to the lower assembly? This
>would seem correct to me, but somebody let me know before I try to
>"fix" it again. Can we tell that this is my first table saw??
>
>Thanks again for all the help.
>
>Jeff
I've kinda lost track of what part is sloppy, but most of the
adjustable parts should be just tight enough to have no slop but not
tight enough to have resistance when used. then lube them.
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:09:39 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Henry E
Schaffer) vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Leave the poor bastard alone! <G>
> Being 45 degrees off is an improvement?!! :-)