A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down on.
It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4" thick,
but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the wood
will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
imperfect.
That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and sanding
it down.
The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that have a
sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of an inch at
the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about an eight of an
inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of an inch.
Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods? I
will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for my
table saw.
> The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that have
> a
> sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of an inch at
> the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about an eight of an
> inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of an inch.
>
I posted a drawing of the actual profile I want at
http://www.frontiernet.net/~toller/routerbit.jpg
I contacted one router bit company and they said they could make a custom
bit for a reasonable price. I'll let you know how that goes...
>Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate
methods?
Like you said, it seems like it would be really tough to match up
finger joints. I think I might try routing down just a little ways in
the area immediately around the burn, then inlaying some similar wood,
and sanding/scraping/planing down to flush. If the bowtie/butterfly
shape mentioned above is too small or wouldn't work decoratively, I'd
be inclined just to use a plain rectangle, possibly directly along the
existing joints between boards. In other words, could you use a
straight bit set 1/4" deep to rout out a section of each burned board,
and inlay new wood?
Or get a table runner, or a nice centerpiece/candle stand that covers
up the marks.
Good luck,
Andy
On 2006-01-20 13:19:40 -0500, "Toller" <[email protected]> said:
> Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
> even close.
Personally, I wouldn't even try to get an exact match.
To me, "close, but no cigar" looks *worse* than an obvious patch.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down
>on.
> It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4"
> thick,
> but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the
> wood
> will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
> Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
> imperfect.
> That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and
> sanding
> it down.
> The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that have
> a
> sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of an inch at
> the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about an eight of an
> inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of an inch.
>
> Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
> even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods?
> I
> will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for
> my
> table saw.
>
Google "dutchman woodworking -flying" for some tips. Essentially making a
patch as suggested by others.
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:19:40 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down
>>on.
>>It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4"
>>thick,
>>but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the
>>wood
>>will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
>>Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
>>imperfect.
>>That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and
>>sanding
>>it down.
>
> Or you can "antique" the rest of the table, calling the burns
> "features".
>
1/8" deep charred wood wouldn't pass a features...
> A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn
> down on. It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top
> is 1 1/4" thick, but I think sanding the damage out is probably
> hopeless; presumably the wood will be discolored deep into it, and it
> might be 3/8" to find clean wood. Turning the top over won't work
> either, as the bottom surface is quite imperfect.
> That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and
> sanding it down.
> The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that
> have a sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of
> an inch at the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about
> an eight of an inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of
> an inch.
A few ideas come to mind...
1. If you have access to a wide belt sander, run the whole top through
the sander multiple times till you get down to good wood.
2. Rip the top into widths that will fit through a planer (12"
typically), plane down to good wood, then reglue the top together. Sand
and refinish.
3. If you do not have access to either of the above tools, you may be
able to build a "sled" of sorts to flatten the top with your router and a
straight bit. LOTS of passes back and forth, but it should work in
theory.
4. Flip the top over and try any of the above methods. Depending on
whether the top is worse than the bottom, this might be a good option.
5. 80" isn't that long. You should be able to cut out the damaged section
and replace it with a single board.
6. Assuming this section isn't on the edge of the top, the joinery won't
show anyway. Use scarf joints, or slots and splines to join boards
together. Then cut out and replace the damaged section.
7. Depending on the construction of the table, maybe you could just cut
out the damaged section and make the table smaller? For example, 80" x
35". It's unlikely anyone would notice a couple of inches difference.
8. Forget about repairing this top and just build a new one from scratch.
Anthony
"Juergen Hannappel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Toller" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
>> Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
>> even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods?
>> I
>> will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for
>> my
>> table saw.
>
> Something like
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/4/product-Perform-Finger-Joint-Cutter-22968.htm
that has a 3/4" bearing. Would it still work (ie. would the pieces still
mate) with a 1" bearing? If so, it might be close enough.
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:19:40 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down on.
>............
>Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
>even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods? I
>will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for my
>table saw.
I'm having a little trouble following the rounded finger-joint thing,
but will assume you want a flat top.
You might take to routing the top as follows:
If you have two very flat boards [MDF?] for the router to ride on, you
can rout out all except for some very narrow ridges to support the
boards and router while getting out most of the material, setting the
router the 1/8" below the present top [perhaps 2 passes of 1/16"].
You can remove those ridges close to the new surface by hand with a
sharp chisel. Then sand with a sanding block until happy.
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:19:40 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down on.
>It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4" thick,
>but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the wood
>will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
>Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
>imperfect.
>That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and sanding
>it down.
Or you can "antique" the rest of the table, calling the burns
"features".
Don't laugh...
Barry
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:07:25 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:19:40 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down
>>>on.
>>>It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4"
>>>thick,
>>>but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the
>>>wood
>>>will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
>>>Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
>>>imperfect.
>>>That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and
>>>sanding
>>>it down.
>>>The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that have
>>>a
>>>sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of an inch at
>>>the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about an eight of an
>>>inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of an inch.
>>>
>>>Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
>>>even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods?
>>>I
>>>will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for
>>>my
>>>table saw.
>>>
>>
>>
>> is this a glue up edge joint? Why do you need to match the profile?
>> Does it extend and become the perimeter edge also? Could you not just
>> glue it up with biscuits or dowels or just straight glue up?
>
>If it were mine I would do just that.
>But it is seen in the edge, she thinks it is decorative and wants to match
>it.
>>
>> I'm probably missing something here.
>>
>> I have a three flute edge bead shaper cutter that cuts 1" that sounds
>> similar to what you have described. But it is three not four beads,
>> with a top and bottom flat.
>
>I did a search and found one.
>http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/960.html
>Is that what you are talking about?
Similar. the outside (top and bottom) flats are slightly deeper
than the flats between the flutes.
>Is there a mating profile? If that existed, it might be close enough to
>work.
>>
I don't know. Mine is listed as an edge beading not glue joint
cutter, so I doubt there is a reverse or female profile.
If your friend can stand to lose a quarter inch or so all around, you
might just glue in the replacement panels and then put an all new edge
profile on the table with a router beading bit. Seems to me it is
going to be hard to get a really good edge match on the glue up anyway
pre cutting the end on a shaper or molding cutter head.
>> Frank
>
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:19:40 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down on.
>It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4" thick,
>but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the wood
>will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
>Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
>imperfect.
>That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and sanding
>it down.
>The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that have a
>sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of an inch at
>the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about an eight of an
>inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of an inch.
>
>Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
>even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods? I
>will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for my
>table saw.
>
is this a glue up edge joint? Why do you need to match the profile?
Does it extend and become the perimeter edge also? Could you not just
glue it up with biscuits or dowels or just straight glue up?
I'm probably missing something here.
I have a three flute edge bead shaper cutter that cuts 1" that sounds
similar to what you have described. But it is three not four beads,
with a top and bottom flat.
Frank
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down
>on.
> It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4"
> thick,
> but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the
> wood
> will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
> Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
> imperfect.
> That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and
> sanding
> it down.
> The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that have
> a
> sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of an inch at
> the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about an eight of an
> inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of an inch.
>
> Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
> even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods?
> I
> will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for
> my
> table saw.
The finger joint doesn't matter.... simply joint the edges of the remaining
boards (they will have sawn edges based on your plan) and glue in new
pieces.
Perhaps a bit of archeology is warranted here. Take a carving gouge and
carefully see just how deep the damage is in the wood. One way or another
you are going to remove that section or Dutchman it so the gouge work isn't
hurting anything. You may find the damage is relatively shallow and not
warrant drastic measures.
Personally, with 1 1/4" of solid wood to work with, I'd be inclined to
surface the entire table rather than mess with cutting out the damaged
section. I wouldn't sand it all away though, I'd start with a scrub plane
and work towards a smoother. Completely removing the discoloration isn't
needed as it could be masked in the finishing process.
John
"Toller" <[email protected]> writes:
[...]
> Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
> even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods? I
> will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for my
> table saw.
Something like
http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/4/product-Perform-Finger-Joint-Cutter-22968.htm
or a bit cheaper but less flexible
http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/4/product-Perform-Finger-Joint-Cutter-22968.htm
Or if you insist on "rounded":
http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/3/product-Omas-Glue-Jointing-Block-20415.htm
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:19:40 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>A friend has a 80" x 37" cherry table they let several candles burn down
>>on.
>>It actually burnt out maybe an eight inch of wood. The top is 1 1/4"
>>thick,
>>but I think sanding the damage out is probably hopeless; presumably the
>>wood
>>will be discolored deep into it, and it might be 3/8" to find clean wood.
>>Turning the top over won't work either, as the bottom surface is quite
>>imperfect.
>>That leaves ripping the damaged 12" out, putting new boards in, and
>>sanding
>>it down.
>>The problem is the joinery used. The top is all 2" wide boards that have
>>a
>>sort of finger joint between them. It is flat for an eight of an inch at
>>the top and bottom, and then 4 pairs of fingers, each about an eight of an
>>inch. They are rounded, and project about an eighth of an inch.
>>
>>Getting an exact match is too much to ask for, but I can't find anything
>>even close. Any suggestions, either on the cutter or alternate methods?
>>I
>>will take a router bit, a shaper cutter, or maybe even a molding head for
>>my
>>table saw.
>>
>
>
> is this a glue up edge joint? Why do you need to match the profile?
> Does it extend and become the perimeter edge also? Could you not just
> glue it up with biscuits or dowels or just straight glue up?
If it were mine I would do just that.
But it is seen in the edge, she thinks it is decorative and wants to match
it.
>
> I'm probably missing something here.
>
> I have a three flute edge bead shaper cutter that cuts 1" that sounds
> similar to what you have described. But it is three not four beads,
> with a top and bottom flat.
I did a search and found one.
http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/960.html
Is that what you are talking about?
Is there a mating profile? If that existed, it might be close enough to
work.
>
> Frank