Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.
How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.
My shop is 1/3 of the 3 car garage. I have a full monitored alarm
system for the garage. it is part of the system that protects the house
but is on a separate "domain", that allows me to arm or disarm it
separately from the house. Front door to the shop, rear door to the
garage and the sliding door between the garage and shop have contact
switches, there is a motion detector in the shop to cover window entry.
Alarm company was ADT but is now CPI. Also have heat detector in the
shop (dust affects smoke detectors), smoke detector in the garage and in
the 2nd floor craft room. these are all part of the same system and
monitored.
I sleep better at night and I don't worry about the shop when I am away.
In 9 years we have had 2 false alarms and the police response time was
under 8 minutes both times.
BRuce
Upscale wrote:
> Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
> me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
> investments in regards to theft.
>
> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
> possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
> comments.
>
>
--
---
BRuce
In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?
BRuce
Charlie Self wrote:
> Upscale asks:
>
>
>>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
>>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
>>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
>>comments.
>
>
> Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.
>
> Charlie Self
> "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
> like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
--
---
BRuce
I'm watching this thread with interest because I am just about to move from
relatively safe VA (unless charlie's shootin at ya) to San Antonio where
bars on the window are the norm.
Montyhp
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> BRuce responds:
>
> >
> >In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?
> >
> >BRuce
> >
> >Charlie Self wrote:
> >
> >> Upscale asks:
> >>
> >>
> >>>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
> >from
> >>>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> >>>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in
hearing
> >>>comments.
> >>
> >>
> >> Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.
>
> Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is
anyone
> going to know he wasn't coming for you?
>
> In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in
that
> area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
> re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into
stores,
> stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.
>
> Charlie Self
> "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance
> like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case
a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from
his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he
was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge
gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the
aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to
com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)
BRuce
Charlie Self wrote:
> BRuce responds:
>
>
>>In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?
>>
>>BRuce
>>
>>Charlie Self wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Upscale asks:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
>>
>>from
>>
>>>>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
>>>>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
>>>>comments.
>>>
>>>
>>>Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.
>
>
> Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is anyone
> going to know he wasn't coming for you?
>
> In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in that
> area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
> re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into stores,
> stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.
>
> Charlie Self
> "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
> like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
--
---
BRuce
Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 3:46pm BRuce says:
understood, works about the same way here in NC. <snip>
However (there is almost always a however), if you know they are
armed, and are running away from you, and you feel the person is running
to a protected area (behind a tree, etc.), where they will then shoot at
you, that could be an exception. In some states this would not be a
viable defense. In one state a woman was charged, when she shot (and I
believe killed) an intruder, who had chased her to her basement. The
claim was, she was "not cornered", and so not in imminent danger, that
she had an escape route she could have taken rather than shoot the
person - the basement window. I don't know the outcome of the case.
Not sure of the state, but seems it was Mass.
JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
now that is the way it should work. "imminent danger" seems to be the
key word and if somebody kicks in your door I would hope that would be
"imminent danger" enough.
let's hope it doesn't happen to any of us,
BRuce
Charlie Self wrote:
> JOAT responds:
>
>
>> However (there is almost always a however), if you know they are
>>armed, and are running away from you, and you feel the person is running
>>to a protected area (behind a tree, etc.), where they will then shoot at
>>you, that could be an exception. In some states this would not be a
>>viable defense. In one state a woman was charged, when she shot (and I
>>believe killed) an intruder, who had chased her to her basement. The
>>claim was, she was "not cornered", and so not in imminent danger, that
>>she had an escape route she could have taken rather than shoot the
>>person - the basement window. I don't know the outcome of the case.
>>Not sure of the state, but seems it was Mass.
>
>
> Or NY. NY used to have, and probably still does, a "retreat until no retreat is
> possible" piece of bullshit in its laws.
>
> What makes more sense to me: in Roanoke, VA some years ago (5?), a guy followed
> a woman home, kicked down the door to her home and was entering. She shot and
> killed him. No charges filed.
>
> Charlie Self
> "To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
> tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
--
---
BRuce
JOAT responds:
>
> However (there is almost always a however), if you know they are
>armed, and are running away from you, and you feel the person is running
>to a protected area (behind a tree, etc.), where they will then shoot at
>you, that could be an exception. In some states this would not be a
>viable defense. In one state a woman was charged, when she shot (and I
>believe killed) an intruder, who had chased her to her basement. The
>claim was, she was "not cornered", and so not in imminent danger, that
>she had an escape route she could have taken rather than shoot the
>person - the basement window. I don't know the outcome of the case.
>Not sure of the state, but seems it was Mass.
Or NY. NY used to have, and probably still does, a "retreat until no retreat is
possible" piece of bullshit in its laws.
What makes more sense to me: in Roanoke, VA some years ago (5?), a guy followed
a woman home, kicked down the door to her home and was entering. She shot and
killed him. No charges filed.
Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
BRuce responds:
>
>In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?
>
>BRuce
>
>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>> Upscale asks:
>>
>>
>>>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
>from
>>>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
>>>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
>>>comments.
>>
>>
>> Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.
Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is anyone
going to know he wasn't coming for you?
In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in that
area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into stores,
stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.
Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
In article <[email protected]>,
Wes Stewart <n7ws@_arrl.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:38:26 +0000, [email protected]
>(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>|In article <1075236547.924306@sj-nntpcache-3>,
>|BRuce <[email protected]> wrote:
>|>understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case
>|>a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from
>|>his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he
>|>was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge
>|>gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the
>|>aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to
>|>com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)
>|>
>|
>|*MOST* states have a "fleeing felon" statute, which makes any party who
>|commits a felony 'fair game' AS THEY ARE LEAVING THE SCENE.
>
>Don't try that in Arizona. In fact defense of *property* using deadly
>force is seldom justified. In the case of arson maybe, otherwise I
>don't think so.
>
>See: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13
I did. 13-410 (A) (3) is the AZ 'fleeing felon' statute. To wit:
13-410. Justification; use of deadly physical force in law enforcement
A. The threatened use of deadly physical force by a person against
another is justified pursuant to section 13-409 only if a reasonable
person effecting the arrest or preventing the escape would believe the
suspect or escapee is:
...
3. A felon who is fleeing from justice or resisting arrest with
physical force.
You're trying to effect a "citizen's arrest", and/or prevent their escape
and fleeing from justice.
Note: the title of the section does _not_ refer to 'sworn law enforcement
_officers_'
>
>Also, the law is not what the legislature says it is, it is what the
>*judge* says it is. For example ARS 13-413 says that you can't be
>sued for acting lawfully while using force against another. Yet
>lawsuits are routinely brought by perps and their families and the
>judges gleefully permit them.
NO, that is -not- what the law says. it says:
13-413. No civil liability for justified conduct
No person in this state shall be subject to civil liability for
engaging in conduct otherwise justified pursuant to the provisions of
this chapter.
Now that leaves OPEN the question of "whether or not" the conduct _was_
"justified pursuant to the provisions of this chapter".
If the conduct _is_ found to be justified, then there is no liability, and
thus no damages can be awarded.
*IF*, on the other hand, the conduct is *not* actually "justified", then the
party _is_ subject to civil liability.
If the authors of statute mean "a lawsuit on this basis cannot be won", they
will state something like "immune from civil lawsuit for any actions taken
in the good-faith belief that they were permitted under this section".
Such a statute doesn't _prevent_ a suit from being filed, but the defense
merely has to assert that they "Believed in good faith" that their actions
were covered, and request summary dismissal therefore. Given such language
in statute, the court would have little recourse but _to_ grant the dismissal.
>
>Another example: ARS 13-3102 (F) specifically says that a weapon can
>be carried concealed in a means of transportation in a holster,
>scabbard or case designed to carry the weapon. Yet people are
>routinely charged and convicted for doing just that.
NIT PICK, 13-3102 (F) does -not- say carried "concealed". And -that-,
I expect is the issue. 13-3102 (A) (2) forbids a concealed weapon where
a person w/o a permit has immediate control and access. 13-3102 (F)
is, unfortunately, somewhat ambiguous as to _exactly_ what sets of
circumstances render 13-3102 (A) (2) inapplicable.
There is: (A) a 'laundry list' of 'containers' that is specifically enumerated.
followed by, (B) a qualifier "in a means of transportation", with a second
qualifier, (C) "in a storage compartment... in a means of transportation."
What is *not* clear is the _precise_ relationship among these three things.
It _could_ be that:
both qualifiers apply -only- to the last 'container' named in the 'laundry
list'; that if it is in one of the other containers named, that the
qualifications do not apply.
the 1st qualifier applies only to the last named 'container' only, and the
2nd qualifier applies to _all_ the named containers.
both qualifiers apply to all the named containers.
the 1st qualifier applies to the last named container only, and the 2nd
qualifier applies _regardless_ of whether it is actually in one of the
named containers
the 1st qualifier applies to any named container, and the 2nd qualifier
applies _regardless_ of whether it is actually in one of the named
containers
the named container list applies _regardless_ of location, _and_ either
qualifier applies _regardless_ of whether it is in one of the named
containers, or not
I wouldn't want to guess _which_ of those alternatives the framers of the
statute actually 'intended'.
>
>My concealed carry instructor (retired sheriff's weapons training
>officer) told us that even though I have a permit, if my weapon is in
>the glove compartment and I have a passenger who doesn't have a
>permit, they "have immediate access" and can be charged. So my usual
>passenger SWMBO has her permit too.
A 'rational' reading of 13-3108 (F) WOULD seem to indicate that -neither-
of you need a permit, given that the weapon is in the appropriate container,
and _in_the_glovebox_.
Blue wrote:
> Relatively safe? That's what I thought. All of a sudden the little thugs are
> breaking into houses and cars like crazy here in my little rural slice of
> VA. Talked to a trooper the other day and he said "Well around here, if we,
> or the County police don't get them soon, well be picking them up just
> inside someone's door and putting them in a body bag."
At least it keeps down the number of repeat offenders. Last time I
cocked my Colt in somebody's ear they dropped a load. Made them clean
it up before I turned them over to the police. Better than cleaning
them off the ceiling.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:26:17 -0700, Wes Stewart <n7ws@_arrl.net>
wrote:
>
>Also, the law is not what the legislature says it is, it is what the
>*judge* says it is. For example ARS 13-413 says that you can't be
>sued for acting lawfully while using force against another. Yet
>lawsuits are routinely brought by perps and their families and the
>judges gleefully permit them.
>
I've never heard of my local DA prosecuting anyone for using force
against a home invader.
IMHO, you break in to someone's home, you take your chances. Nothing
would've happened if the perp hadn't chosen to commit a crime.
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:38:26 +0000, [email protected]
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
|In article <1075236547.924306@sj-nntpcache-3>,
|BRuce <[email protected]> wrote:
|>understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case
|>a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from
|>his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he
|>was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge
|>gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the
|>aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to
|>com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)
|>
|
|*MOST* states have a "fleeing felon" statute, which makes any party who
|commits a felony 'fair game' AS THEY ARE LEAVING THE SCENE.
Don't try that in Arizona. In fact defense of *property* using deadly
force is seldom justified. In the case of arson maybe, otherwise I
don't think so.
See: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13
Also, the law is not what the legislature says it is, it is what the
*judge* says it is. For example ARS 13-413 says that you can't be
sued for acting lawfully while using force against another. Yet
lawsuits are routinely brought by perps and their families and the
judges gleefully permit them.
Another example: ARS 13-3102 (F) specifically says that a weapon can
be carried concealed in a means of transportation in a holster,
scabbard or case designed to carry the weapon. Yet people are
routinely charged and convicted for doing just that.
My concealed carry instructor (retired sheriff's weapons training
officer) told us that even though I have a permit, if my weapon is in
the glove compartment and I have a passenger who doesn't have a
permit, they "have immediate access" and can be charged. So my usual
passenger SWMBO has her permit too.
In article <1075236547.924306@sj-nntpcache-3>,
BRuce <[email protected]> wrote:
>understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case
>a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from
>his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he
>was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge
>gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the
>aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to
>com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)
>
*MOST* states have a "fleeing felon" statute, which makes any party who
commits a felony 'fair game' AS THEY ARE LEAVING THE SCENE.
Simple 'trespassing' is almost always a misdemeanor. as is "Simple B&E".
"Larceny in the Night Time" is a different story.
Relatively safe? That's what I thought. All of a sudden the little thugs are
breaking into houses and cars like crazy here in my little rural slice of
VA. Talked to a trooper the other day and he said "Well around here, if we,
or the County police don't get them soon, well be picking them up just
inside someone's door and putting them in a body bag."
"Montyhp" <montyhp at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm watching this thread with interest because I am just about to move
from
> relatively safe VA (unless charlie's shootin at ya) to San Antonio where
> bars on the window are the norm.
>
> Montyhp
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > BRuce responds:
> >
> > >
> > >In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?
> > >
> > >BRuce
> > >
> > >Charlie Self wrote:
> > >
> > >> Upscale asks:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit
bull)
> > >from
> > >>>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system?
Of
> > >>>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in
> hearing
> > >>>comments.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.
> >
> > Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is
> anyone
> > going to know he wasn't coming for you?
> >
> > In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in
> that
> > area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
> > re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into
> stores,
> > stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.
> >
> > Charlie Self
> > "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.
> Dance
> > like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
> >
> > http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
>
>
Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 4:33am (EST+5) [email protected] (Blue)
says:
<snip> well be picking them up just inside someone's door and putting
them in a body bag."
I have to take my trash to the end of my drive.
JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
one 36" and one 60" and a marlin 22 that I use to shoot squirrels at 20
yards, head shots only... the shop doors are MUCH closer than that and I
would image your head being larger than the local squirrel. :-)
Don't mess with my Unisaw!
BRuce
Upscale wrote:
> You realize of course, that I've been asking these alarm questions because
> I'm scoping out areas for my next nocturnal visit. Now which of you guys has
> an outdoor shop with no steps and a door that's at least 27" wide? :)
>
> "T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 4:25pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Upscale) queries:
>><snip> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit
>>bull) from possible theft? <snip>
>>
>> No prob. The kid's dog barks. I provide the bite. If the first
>>magazine won't do it, I've got more.
>>
>>JOAT
>>There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
>>probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
>>you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
>> - G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002
>>
>>Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
>>Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
>>Some tunes I like.
>>http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
>>
>
>
>
there are 2 primary types; fixed, usually 130 or 140 degrees and rate of
rise, where a rapid rise in temp will trigger them (actually they can be
set off by cupping your hand over them)
I have the 130s in my shop, no false alarms. the motion detector is
another story, it had to be moved as the radiant heater would set it off
about 3AM but only if the outside temp was below 32.
BRuce
Barry Lennox wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:31:13 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 04:32:03 GMT, "Jim Giblin"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A corollary to monitoring for theft is the potential for fire.
>>
>>This is the primary reason I have a system. By the time neighbors
>>notice smoke, it might be too late.
>>
>>I have standard smoke and heat detectors, which I blow out with canned
>>air on a regular basis. I've found that my detectors usually falsely
>>trigger when dirty, others may not.
>
>
> I use the thermal switch types mounted up high, Can't recall the temp
> they trigger at, but they never generate a false alarm. However, they
> will not alarm until the fire is underway, and hot gas is being
> generated.
>
> Barry Lennox
--
---
BRuce
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:31:13 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 04:32:03 GMT, "Jim Giblin"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>A corollary to monitoring for theft is the potential for fire.
>
>This is the primary reason I have a system. By the time neighbors
>notice smoke, it might be too late.
>
>I have standard smoke and heat detectors, which I blow out with canned
>air on a regular basis. I've found that my detectors usually falsely
>trigger when dirty, others may not.
I use the thermal switch types mounted up high, Can't recall the temp
they trigger at, but they never generate a false alarm. However, they
will not alarm until the fire is underway, and hot gas is being
generated.
Barry Lennox
Upscale asks:
>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
>comments.
Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.
Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
I have a motion detector that is tied to the system installed in the
house... the shop is a 30'X36' building set back from the rear of the house.
Both installed at time of building.
Tom
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
> me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
> investments in regards to theft.
>
> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
> possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
> comments.
>
>
> Upscale asks:
>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
>comments.
\ /
\ /
|-------------#--|
| |
| FRONT |
| |
|----------------|
/ \
/ \
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 4:25pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Upscale) queries:
<snip> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit
bull) from possible theft? <snip>
No prob. The kid's dog barks. I provide the bite. If the first
magazine won't do it, I've got more.
JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
A corollary to monitoring for theft is the potential for fire. My shop is
in walled off section of a finished basement so, to me, fire is more of a
concern then theft. I understand that fire/smoke monitors work my measuring
the opacity of the air. I would expect these alarms would go off all the
time because of the saw dust floating in the air. Do they have special
monitors that can deal with the saw dust laden air?
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
> me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
> investments in regards to theft.
>
> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
> possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
> comments.
>
>
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:25:20 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
>me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
>investments in regards to theft.
>
>How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
>possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
>course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
>comments.
>
I ahve a detached shop, 10 feet from house. I bought a cheap motion
detector alarm that makes a loud local only alarm. The delay is set at
10 seconds. When I got it I had several of the local kids(potiential
theives) into the shop and forgot to disable the alarm. I them asked
them to wait, went inside , then walked out with the portable phone in
hand. I pretended to be talking the the sheriff office to report a
false alarm. I really sold the act to the kids. Have had no trouble
since then. If a new kid comes to the neighborhood and comes to the
house I make sure he sees the alarm.
Preception is a key to security.
You realize of course, that I've been asking these alarm questions because
I'm scoping out areas for my next nocturnal visit. Now which of you guys has
an outdoor shop with no steps and a door that's at least 27" wide? :)
"T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 4:25pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Upscale) queries:
> <snip> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit
> bull) from possible theft? <snip>
>
> No prob. The kid's dog barks. I provide the bite. If the first
> magazine won't do it, I've got more.
>
> JOAT
> There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
> probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
> you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
> - G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002
>
> Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
> Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
> Some tunes I like.
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
>
Upscale asks:
>You realize of course, that I've been asking these alarm questions because
>I'm scoping out areas for my next nocturnal visit. Now which of you guys has
>an outdoor shop with no steps and a door that's at least 27" wide? :)
One door 48" wide, one 95".
Motion activated outdoor lights. Small dog that doesn't yap, but does bark at
intruders. Old Mossberg in bedroom with window that has straight-on view of
both doors. And age has me sleeping lightly.
Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 10:39am (EST+5) [email protected] (Upscale) says:
You realize of course, that I've been asking these alarm questions
because I'm scoping out areas for my next nocturnal visit. Now which of
you guys has an outdoor shop with no steps and a door that's at least
27" wide? :)
No prob. The two doors open to about 52", just give e a bit of
advance notice, so I can have a ramp in. Now, let me figure; I have the
capacity for 105 rounds in magazines, so let's make that 90 rounds of
semi-jacketed hollow points, with 15 rounds of full metal jacket - those
would be for your vehicle. No prob. I'm home most of the time, so
there's little chance I'll miss you.
JOAT
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
- Pete Maccarrone
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
[email protected] (T.) wrote in news:3055-40199639-269@storefull-
3196.bay.webtv.net:
> Thu, Jan 29, 2004, 10:39am (EST+5) [email protected] (Upscale) says:
> You realize of course, that I've been asking these alarm questions
> because I'm scoping out areas for my next nocturnal visit. Now which
of
> you guys has an outdoor shop with no steps and a door that's at least
> 27" wide? :)
>
> No prob. The two doors open to about 52", just give e a bit of
> advance notice, so I can have a ramp in. Now, let me figure; I have
the
> capacity for 105 rounds in magazines, so let's make that 90 rounds of
> semi-jacketed hollow points, with 15 rounds of full metal jacket -
those
> would be for your vehicle. No prob. I'm home most of the time, so
> there's little chance I'll miss you.
>
Actually I keep at least one mag loaded with every other bullet a hollow
point and the others a FMJ-RN. If the bad guy is wearing a heavy jacket
the hollow point might not penatrate well. So the next round would!
Nasty, but prepared!
Oh and I have ten high cap, 15 rounds, magazines.
Fri, Jan 30, 2004, 4:14am (EST+5) [email protected]
(Joe=A0Willmann) says:
<snip> If the bad guy is wearing a heavy jacket the hollow point might
not penatrate well. <snip>
If he's still moving after the first 2-3, between the eyes. Too
much penetration with the full metal jackets, likely to go clear thru.
JOAT
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
- Pete Maccarrone
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 29 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
shooting a person that has broken into my property (house or shop) is
justifiable, using 6 - 210 rounds of FMJ or hollow point is not. it is
not anymore justifiable than deer hunting with an automatic weapon.
Chances are that in my case the gun would be use to detain the suspect
until the sheriff arrives. I have never injured a bystander shooting at
squirrels, why would shooting at a criminal be any different, other than
his head (not brain) would be larger?
BRuce (I live far enough out that is should make a difference but it
doesn't)
[email protected] wrote:
> Wow, you guys are extreme. You would kill someone over a few
> hundred bucks worth of tools? Don't get me wrong, I believe in
> defending myself and my family(and have the means to do so), but
> everything else is replaceable, unlike innocent bystanders and neighbors
> that would be in danger while you are blasting away. I guess I've
> lived too long out in the sticks, where the only criminals we have are
> the mailbox terrorists (about once a year, usually around graduation
> time).
> Maybe you guys should think about moving if it's that bad.
>
--
---
BRuce
Wow, you guys are extreme. You would kill someone over a few
hundred bucks worth of tools? Don't get me wrong, I believe in
defending myself and my family(and have the means to do so), but
everything else is replaceable, unlike innocent bystanders and neighbors
that would be in danger while you are blasting away. I guess I've
lived too long out in the sticks, where the only criminals we have are
the mailbox terrorists (about once a year, usually around graduation
time).
Maybe you guys should think about moving if it's that bad.
Sat, Jan 31, 2004, 3:00pm (EST-1) [email protected] says:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Wow, you guys are extreme. You would kill
someone over a few hundred bucks worth of tools? <snip>
No, just attract their attention.
I guess I've lived too long out in the sticks, where the only criminals
we have are the mailbox terrorists <snip>
No one lives that far out in the sticks.
JOAT
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
- Pete Maccarrone
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 31 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
Sat, Jan 31, 2004, 4:40pm (EST-1) [email protected] mumbles to
someone, but doesn't say who:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Well, statements like you've made in this thread
are just fodder for the anti-gun activists. Gun control means knowing
how to use your firearm and WHEN to use it.
It's the norm for criminals, gangs, etc., now to have guns, and to
shoot at any, or no, opportunity. When you get 11 year old kids, and
younger, getting caught with guns in school, you can't figure the guy
breaking into your property is unarmed. As long as he didn't make any
offensive moves, or threats, there would be no problem.
Gun control is keeping your rounds on target.
JOAT
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
- Pete Maccarrone
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 31 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
[email protected] wrote:
> Well, statements like you've made in this thread are just fodder for
> the anti-gun activists. Gun control means knowing how to use your
> firearm and WHEN to use it.
You're talking about a matter of religion. Nobody will be convinced of
anything unless something happens to them personally. The anti-gun
crowd doesn't need fodder and isn't interested in facts. I'm assuming
from the way you worded this that you aren't among them. people who
believe that removing guns will "fix" the crime problem aren't
rational. Worrying about giving them ammo is a waste of time, they'll
make their own. Stop by sometime, I'll show you the NRA museum and
range.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
Just this last Friday, not more than a 3 blocks from my house, a really
nice 45 year old woman came home to find a 15 year old kid ransacking
her house. He shot her in the head and stole her van. He was caught 4
blocks away when he left the van in front of a local bar club. Her
husband came home to find his wife dead in the kitchen.
This kid should be terminated immediately, on the side of the road where
he was picked up, and his body dumped at the city landfill in a plastic
bag. No need to waste tax payer dollars keeping him alive for the rest
of his life and feeding him. He does not deserve to draw another breath.
Joe Willmann wrote:
> [posted and mailed]
>
> [email protected] wrote in news:1599-401C2EF0-828@storefull-
> 3113.bay.webtv.net:
>
>
>> Well, statements like you've made in this thread are just fodder
>
> for
>
>>the anti-gun activists. Gun control means knowing how to use your
>>firearm and WHEN to use it.
>>
>>
>
>
> Bzzzzz. Wrong!
> Gun Control is getting the second round on target!
>
> First of all. The most common kind of crime around here where someone
> breaks into your house is the violent home invasion. In the last couple
> of years there have been lots of cases around here.
>
> In my case, and no doubt most others peoples, if someone breaks into my
> shop and I am not in there I will call 911 and then fall into a
> defensive position to defend my family. The BG (bad guy) leaves the
> shop and enters the house then all bets are off. If I am in the shop
> and a bad guy comes in to steal from me and my presense doesn't scare
> him off then I assume my and my families life is in danger because the
> BG was willing to perpetrate the crime with witnesses present. BG is
> toast.
>
> Deadly force is a last resort. But you have to be willing to use it
> before you yourself end up dead.
Why would you want to waste the plastic bag?
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Mapdude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just this last Friday, not more than a 3 blocks from my house, a really
> nice 45 year old woman came home to find a 15 year old kid ransacking
> her house. He shot her in the head and stole her van. He was caught 4
> blocks away when he left the van in front of a local bar club. Her
> husband came home to find his wife dead in the kitchen.
>
> This kid should be terminated immediately, on the side of the road where
> he was picked up, and his body dumped at the city landfill in a plastic
> bag. No need to waste tax payer dollars keeping him alive for the rest
> of his life and feeding him. He does not deserve to draw another breath.
>
>
>
> Joe Willmann wrote:
> > [posted and mailed]
> >
> > [email protected] wrote in news:1599-401C2EF0-828@storefull-
> > 3113.bay.webtv.net:
> >
> >
> >> Well, statements like you've made in this thread are just fodder
> >
> > for
> >
> >>the anti-gun activists. Gun control means knowing how to use your
> >>firearm and WHEN to use it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Bzzzzz. Wrong!
> > Gun Control is getting the second round on target!
> >
> > First of all. The most common kind of crime around here where someone
> > breaks into your house is the violent home invasion. In the last couple
> > of years there have been lots of cases around here.
> >
> > In my case, and no doubt most others peoples, if someone breaks into my
> > shop and I am not in there I will call 911 and then fall into a
> > defensive position to defend my family. The BG (bad guy) leaves the
> > shop and enters the house then all bets are off. If I am in the shop
> > and a bad guy comes in to steal from me and my presense doesn't scare
> > him off then I assume my and my families life is in danger because the
> > BG was willing to perpetrate the crime with witnesses present. BG is
> > toast.
> >
> > Deadly force is a last resort. But you have to be willing to use it
> > before you yourself end up dead.
>
[posted and mailed]
[email protected] wrote in news:1599-401C2EF0-828@storefull-
3113.bay.webtv.net:
> Well, statements like you've made in this thread are just fodder
for
> the anti-gun activists. Gun control means knowing how to use your
> firearm and WHEN to use it.
>
>
Bzzzzz. Wrong!
Gun Control is getting the second round on target!
First of all. The most common kind of crime around here where someone
breaks into your house is the violent home invasion. In the last couple
of years there have been lots of cases around here.
In my case, and no doubt most others peoples, if someone breaks into my
shop and I am not in there I will call 911 and then fall into a
defensive position to defend my family. The BG (bad guy) leaves the
shop and enters the house then all bets are off. If I am in the shop
and a bad guy comes in to steal from me and my presense doesn't scare
him off then I assume my and my families life is in danger because the
BG was willing to perpetrate the crime with witnesses present. BG is
toast.
Deadly force is a last resort. But you have to be willing to use it
before you yourself end up dead.
[email protected] wrote:
> Wow, you guys are extreme. You would kill someone over a few
> hundred bucks worth of tools?
It's not the cost of the tools. It's the isolence of daring to try it
in the first place. Think of it as an intelligence test combined with
plinking. Bystanders are safe.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
Gorgeous dog and he looks exactly like the German shepherd I had 30 years
ago which was my last dog.
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
> > possible theft?
>
> I use a German Shepherd who has 24/7 access to the shop. So far so good
...
>
> http://home.att.net/~slurban3/Photos/Shopdog-480.jpg
I've got a pitbull, an alarm system with a solar powered backup, sounds a
tone when the door opens, and the first two rounds in the 9 are ball
followed by the silvertipped hollowpoints for good measure. 15 in the clip
and a spare clip in the holster. Plus, I am a pretty large fellow who will
loan tools occaisionally, but absolutely hate a thief....
35 cents is way too cheap for the taxpayers. I won't miss. <grin>
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My shop sits 12 feet away from the bedroom.
> If someone breaks in chances are I'll hear them.
> Doubtful they are gonna get to far too quietly hefting any of the
> machines out the door (which go up to 800 lbs.). First they're gonna
> have to move my 1945 Farmall outta the way...I'll defintely hear this
> puppy fire up - assuming they know how to start one.
> By this time me and my Winchester will be holding them at bay whilst I
> do the PTT thing on my Nextel to shift Lt. at the district Police
> station less than two miles away. (Worked with him for two years).
> By the way, the Winchester is a 18" pump holding 7 rounds; also has a
> sensitive trigger and an attitude. I recommend the first round to be #7
> as a warning, followed by a slug if not heeded, then with buck if you
> should miss.
"Ace" <[email protected]> wrote in message ....I had an alarm system installed and have magnetic detectors on my basement windows in addition to an alarm on my sump pump.
This is obviously for protection against intruders coming in through
the drain tile or storm sewer laterals.
Joe
Big Joe writes:
>Ace" <[email protected]> wrote in message ....I had an alarm system installed and
>have magnetic detectors on my basement windows in addition to an alarm on my
>sump pump.
>
>
>This is obviously for protection against intruders coming in through
>the drain tile or storm sewer laterals.
Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less fun than a swimming pool.
And a problem with a sump pump can create great expense. We had a basement fire
started by a fault sump pump this summer. I think the insurance company's total
payout had to reach at least $40,000 for cleaning, repair, replacement.
Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
charlie penned...Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less
fun than a swimming pool.
I figured that's what he meant. I have looked at these in the past,
in connection with a shutoff switch for my water softenener, as it
empties into the sump. If my sump pump fails, my basement would flood
with salt water. Not good.
Joe
Big Joe responds:
>charlie penned...Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less
>fun than a swimming pool.
>
>I figured that's what he meant. I have looked at these in the past,
>in connection with a shutoff switch for my water softenener, as it
>empties into the sump. If my sump pump fails, my basement would flood
>with salt water. Not good.
For a fact. That might even be worse than the sloshing mess in my basement
after the fire. Good fortune in one respect: one piece of CPVC in the entire
copper and cast iron system, and it was not to far from where the fire started.
It eventually melted and put the fire mostly out before the fire department was
even called.
But, jeez, whadda mess!
Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 28 Jan 2004 21:12:16 -0800, [email protected] (BIG JOE) wrote:
> My "friend" got sick of waiting for me to say goodbye to a
>girlfriend, and decided to take my car for a joy ride through the leaf
>piles in the neighborhood. Later as we were
>driving home, you guessed it, flames start shooting out from under the
>hood as I'm heading down the main drag. I pulled over into a parking lot, opened the
>hood, and woooffff, the fire indeed got worse. A few weeks later as I was
>attempting to repair the damage in the engine compartment (what would
>be a lost cause)
>
>Joe
I hope your "friend" paid for his idiocy.
charlie wrote ... Good fortune in one respect: one piece of CPVC in
the entire
> copper and cast iron system, and it was not to far from where the fire started.
> It eventually melted and put the fire mostly out before the fire department was
> even called.
>
I had a similar incident with my first car back in the early eighties.
My "friend" got sick of waiting for me to say goodbye to a
girlfriend, and decided to take my car for a joy ride through the leaf
piles in the neighborhood. It was one of those fall days where
everyone has raked their leaves into the street for the city to come
by and suck up with one of those oversized shop-vacs. He discovered
how fun it is to go bouncing off them at 30mph. Later as we were
driving home, you guessed it, flames start shooting out from under the
hood as I'm heading down the main drag. We start arguing over whether
the fire would get worse if I pulled over or if I kept driving. It
was a short argument and I pulled over into a parking lot, opened the
hood, and woooffff, the fire indeed got worse. I ran to a nearby
office building and got the janitor to bring out a bucket of water.
When we got back to the car, the fire was out. It burned through the
radiator hose and put itself out. A few weeks later as I was
attempting to repair the damage in the engine compartment (what would
be a lost cause), I inspected the fuel line to find it had nearly
burned through. Made me wonder if the engineers designed the radiator
hose to burn through quicker.
Joe
My shop sits 12 feet away from the bedroom.
If someone breaks in chances are I'll hear them.
Doubtful they are gonna get to far too quietly hefting any of the
machines out the door (which go up to 800 lbs.). First they're gonna
have to move my 1945 Farmall outta the way...I'll defintely hear this
puppy fire up - assuming they know how to start one.
By this time me and my Winchester will be holding them at bay whilst I
do the PTT thing on my Nextel to shift Lt. at the district Police
station less than two miles away. (Worked with him for two years).
By the way, the Winchester is a 18" pump holding 7 rounds; also has a
sensitive trigger and an attitude. I recommend the first round to be #7
as a warning, followed by a slug if not heeded, then with buck if you
should miss.
Mark
Upscale wrote:
> Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
> me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
> investments in regards to theft.
>
> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
> possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
> comments.
>
>
Sun, Feb 1, 2004, 7:24am [email protected] (Mark) says:
<snip> also has a sensitive trigger <snip>
Forgot to mention. Best NOT to have a sensitive trigger on a
defensive firearm. Better to have a stiff trigger pull. Your'e going
to be nervous in a situation like that, and you don't want to shoot
someone accidently. If you need to shoot, you won't notice the exta
effort requird to pull the trigger.
JOAT
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
- Pete Maccarrone
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 31 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
Sun, Feb 1, 2004, 7:24am [email protected] (Mark) says:
<> First they're gonna have to move my 1945 Farmall outta the
way...<snip>
That just means it's the first thing stollen. Easy enough to roll,
without starting.
I recommend the first round to be #7 as a warning, followed by a slug if
not heeded, then with buck if you should miss.
Better making all rounds the same. Then, if you need the first
one, you're covered. Slug? Too easy to miss at close range. Use #4
buck.
JOAT
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
- Pete Maccarrone
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 31 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:41:17 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>entry. Long story short, bought the parts and installed the system myself
>for around $350.
So did I.
Another point, monitoring is completely negotiable!
I have a major company that tries to raise my fee every quarter. I
call them and tell them to close the account. Bingo! Back down to
$17 a month again! My neighbors are paying $28 to the same company.
Remember, monitoring an alarm costs almost nothing, my $17 is better
than zero, or at least _they_ think so! <G>
Barry
Barry Burke writes:
>I have a major company that tries to raise my fee every quarter. I
>call them and tell them to close the account. Bingo! Back down to
>$17 a month again! My neighbors are paying $28 to the same company.
>
>Remember, monitoring an alarm costs almost nothing, my $17 is better
>than zero, or at least _they_ think so! <G>
Sounds like AT&T when I cancelled my cell phone account. They wouldn't give me
what I wanted as a roaming area, so I dropped it. After I dropped it, they
offered what I wanted, but by that time I realized I had just gotten rid of one
more electronic PITA that I had no real need for.
Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 28 Jan 2004 03:00:40 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>Sounds like AT&T when I cancelled my cell phone account. They wouldn't give me
>what I wanted as a roaming area, so I dropped it. After I dropped it, they
>offered what I wanted, but by that time I realized I had just gotten rid of one
>more electronic PITA that I had no real need for.
Keep in mind that cellular and landline phone companies, CATV, etc...
have definite costs associated with each subscriber, like feature
licenses, programming fees, cable, transmission, and switching
equipment maintenance, contracts with out of area providers, all
depending on the individual business.
My alarm system uses a circuit maintained by the phone company
connected to equipment that is out of warranty. <G> If I don't bring
an alarm in, which I very rarely do, I'm literally just a database
entry. The most expensive cost of doing business is probably mailing
the bill! Plus, I'll bet these guys actually make money on an out of
warranty service call.
Barry
[email protected] (Charlie Self) writes:
> Their costs were the same after I dropped the account as before, so there's not
> exactly a lot of problem that I can see with changing it before they pissed me
> off. They didn't. Now they don't get my $39.95 a month, period. Nor does anyone
> else, of course, but what the hell.
Is it any wonder their stock has dropped like a rock since
the IPO? [See the article in this week's Newsweek.]
In my case, they stiffed me for $50 of unused time. I'd
refreshed my account via their Web site the day my account
was to expire and they said all was copacetic. The next
day I couldn't use the phone. I found that the fine print
in the contract says that one's account expires at midnight
the day /before/ the "expiration date" and the Web site had
blithely taken my renewal and pitched it into the dirty bit
bucket. When I suggested that they could be a bit lenient,
I was told, in effect, tough cookies.
I received a (form) letter awhile back from them asking if I
would be interested in becoming a customer again. I fired
off a missive suggesting that if they treated their existing
customers better, they wouldn't have so many ex-customers.
Everett Greene responds:
>Is it any wonder their stock has dropped like a rock since
>the IPO? [See the article in this week's Newsweek.]
>
>In my case, they stiffed me for $50 of unused time. I'd
>refreshed my account via their Web site the day my account
>was to expire and they said all was copacetic. The next
>day I couldn't use the phone. I found that the fine print
>in the contract says that one's account expires at midnight
>the day /before/ the "expiration date" and the Web site had
>blithely taken my renewal and pitched it into the dirty bit
>bucket. When I suggested that they could be a bit lenient,
>I was told, in effect, tough cookies.
Yeah, well basically that's the answer I got when I wanted to roam south
instead of north. Not both. Just a different one. Couldn't do it. Wouldn't do
it. So I cancelled and a week or so later, get a note saying they'd be glad to
make that arrangement. By now, of course, damned near everyone was beginning to
offer 'no roaming charges' for huge areas, so it would have been simple to pick
up another company, but...I found I didn't miss the cell phone, which I used to
forget and leave home some 80% of the time anyway. Why pay $40 a month for
something that gets used less than an hour a week?
>I received a (form) letter awhile back from them asking if I
>would be interested in becoming a customer again. I fired
>off a missive suggesting that if they treated their existing
>customers better, they wouldn't have so many ex-customers.
>
That's the MBA model: hype until you pump the initial figures, then sit back do
nothing unitl it collapses around your ears, at which time you wind up the hype
machine again.
Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Barry Burke responds:
>>Sounds like AT&T when I cancelled my cell phone account. They wouldn't give
>me
>>what I wanted as a roaming area, so I dropped it. After I dropped it, they
>>offered what I wanted, but by that time I realized I had just gotten rid of
>one
>>more electronic PITA that I had no real need for.
>
>Keep in mind that cellular and landline phone companies, CATV, etc...
>have definite costs associated with each subscriber, like feature
>licenses, programming fees, cable, transmission, and switching
>equipment maintenance, contracts with out of area providers, all
>depending on the individual business.
>
Not my problem, though. They refused to change the area to one I needed--I
could roam throughout the PA, NY, OH, NE area, but before I got out of WV going
south it was 2 bucks a minute. Damned near everyone I'd want to call on a
mobile phone is in VA and south so I wanted to swap areas. No deal, according
to AT&T. I did not want to add areas, or even get extra area.
Their costs were the same after I dropped the account as before, so there's not
exactly a lot of problem that I can see with changing it before they pissed me
off. They didn't. Now they don't get my $39.95 a month, period. Nor does anyone
else, of course, but what the hell.
Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
I have just built a new home with a large basement where I have my shop. I
had an alarm system installed and have magnetic detectors on my basement
windows in addition to an alarm on my sump pump. I also have a motion
detector upstairs in addition to the doors and windows covered and a radio
control unit incase the power goes out. The system cost $1800 installed and
a $22.50 monitoring fee per month.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
> me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
> investments in regards to theft.
>
> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
> possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
> comments.
>
>
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 04:32:03 GMT, "Jim Giblin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>A corollary to monitoring for theft is the potential for fire.
This is the primary reason I have a system. By the time neighbors
notice smoke, it might be too late.
I have standard smoke and heat detectors, which I blow out with canned
air on a regular basis. I've found that my detectors usually falsely
trigger when dirty, others may not.
On occasion, I'll test the smoke heads with the canned stuff sold in
hardware stores and see how long the monitoring company's response
takes.
Barry
FWIW, Harbor Freight has mini security cameras on sale for $29.
Upscale wrote:
> Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
> me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
> investments in regards to theft.
>
> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
> possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
> comments.
>
>
"Upscale" wrote in message
> Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
> me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
> investments in regards to theft.
>
> How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
> possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
> course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
> comments.
While this house was being built, I had the shop wide open out of necessity
almost every day while working on cabinets, with all manner of characters on
the building crews constantly walking by the shop and dog eying my tools.
The "professional installation" quote from a local alarm company that was
supposed to allow me to sleep at night was $1800+ for just two points of
entry. Long story short, bought the parts and installed the system myself
for around $350. I got a siren for the thing that would deafen a dead man
... and I made damn sure it went off 'accidentally a couple of times
whenever a new crew showed up on site.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/23/04