I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
were glued.
I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
sides and back of each unit).
However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
"waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
time seems more and more limited.
Decisions, decisions.
I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at it. :)
Thanks in advance.
On Feb 15, 8:18=A0am, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 7:51 PM, Richard wrote:
>
> > On 2/14/2012 5:24 PM, Sonny wrote:
> >> Screw or clamp a scrap straight edged board/strip, as a circular saw
> >> guide, onto the waste side and cut it.
>
> >> Sonny
>
> > I've done this several times - on my dinky little toy table say.
>
> > It _usually_ goes ok...
> > But if it grabs it's gonna be ugly.
>
> You have a table say!! =A0I have no say at the table. =A0:!)
Do you mind your manners at the table?
I finally got around to measuring the maximum distance between the rip fenc=
e and the blade. It's about 24". But the intended height of the cabinets is=
more like 27". So I took your advice and ordered one of those self-clampin=
g guides, at what looks like an attractive price:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=3D25134
I can only assume that no one was buying the 50" model.=20
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:58:31 -0500, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
>I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
>But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
it. :)
I have one of these and it's very useful. That's what I'd use and a
circular saw with just enough blade to cut through the wood.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=65694&cat=1,240,45313
Now, if you're really concerned about safety, then go with a hand saw.
On Sunday, February 19, 2012 12:27:49 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
> >I can only assume that no one was buying the 50" model.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised to hear that is the most popular size... cross
> cutting sheet goods is a common use for this type of clamp.
That's what I would have guessed also, but the 50" is the only one that's discounted; so much so that it is actually the cheapest size from Rockler.
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
>shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
>sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
>were glued.
>
> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>
> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
> may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two sides
> and back of each unit).
>
> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the "waste"
> piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me that this
> could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>
> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use that
> is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a problem.) But
> I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end up using the saw
> a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my time seems more and
> more limited.
>
> Decisions, decisions.
>
> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question. But
> that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at it. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
Having to do this same task once or twice I elected to do it opposite way
that most are saying, having an extension table in my TS, I pull the fence
back to the needed height, and let the waste side fall free. I have found
when cutting a larger piece the final can close the on the cut and the blade
can remove material. Of course I was hand feeding because using a miter was
not an opeion due to the size.
Swingman wrote:
> On 2/15/2012 9:11 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 2/14/2012 5:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>
>>> On either the circular saw, or with a table saw, if you're worried
>>> about the off cut binding (which can happen with either one), there
>>> is a very simple solution to that which makes it much safer all
>>> around: Span the kerf cut on each side after it's made, with some
>>> scraps,
>>> hot glued to the _inside_ of the cabinet ... that will keep the
>>> cutoff 3" part from moving/flopping around on you as you make each
>>> subsequent cut.
>>
>> That's exactly what I was worried about. Sounds like a good idea.
>
> Picture worth a dozen or so words:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5709436118163608578
So... FWIW - I would not do what Swingman suggests in his drawing, but
that's because I'm a daring soul who believes in all of the things I've done
in the past. That said - his suggestion is perfectly in keeping with your
expressed concerns and is a rock solid idea. One thing you can expect from
Karl - despite the fact that he is a coon-ass, he will not steer you wrong
and will give you something that you can work with, within your own level of
confidence. Now - ask him if he owns a SawStop...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:19:34 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The ones in the last photo look like mine... they've been perfectly
>> serviceable though I suspect the Festool gizmo is a finer tool!
>Festool gizmo?
Think he's referring to Festool guide rails. To me, the best
comparison might be 'distant' cousins.
On 2/14/2012 7:51 PM, Richard wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 5:24 PM, Sonny wrote:
>> Screw or clamp a scrap straight edged board/strip, as a circular saw
>> guide, onto the waste side and cut it.
>>
>> Sonny
>
>
> I've done this several times - on my dinky little toy table say.
>
> It _usually_ goes ok...
> But if it grabs it's gonna be ugly.
You have a table say!! I have no say at the table. :!)
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/14/2012 4:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>> I have in fact trimmed boxes of about 18X18 on my table saw simple by
>> running them against the fence with the waste on the left of the blade.
>
> I assume this means setting the fence 24" (the intended finished height of
> the cabinets) to the right of the blade. I have to check. This might be
> more than the saw's capacity.
In your situation yes, set the fence to the desired finished height of 24".
Come to think of it, I think my boxes were 24" too! If you put the waste to
the right of the blade against the fence don't forget to adjust the fence to
take the kerf into account, i.e., if the blade removes 1/8" of material set
the fence to 2 7/8" to remove 3".
>> In your case, if there is no outfeed table I'd skip the table saw... Too
>> much weight to try to juggle around on a running saw as the cut is
>> completed. Bad things can happen!
>
> I'll bet. If there is indeed enough width to the table saw, I would in
> fact have an outfeed table.
>>
>> Do you have a rip guide for your circular saw? My two Porter Cable saws
>> (7 1/2" and 4 1/2") cut very nicely with the rip guides... I'd not
>> hesitate to cut the bottom off cabinet boxes with either.
>
> That sounds like skill might be involved; to move the saw just right
> through the cut and offset any tendency it might have to curve toward the
> edge. I'd have to practice on scrap first.
Practice is a good idea if you haven't used the rip guide previously. I've
used rip guides on inexpensive saws that were horrible compared to my PC rip
guides... You may find that your guide works great or it may be terrible in
regards to how well it lets you maintain a good cut... test cuts is the best
way to find that out.
John
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/19/12 11:27 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>
>>> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:10708568.3.1329629041810.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbpw16...
>>> I finally got around to measuring the maximum distance between the rip
>>> fence and the blade. It's about 24". But the intended height of the
>>> >cabinets is more like 27". So I took your advice and ordered one of
>>> those self-clamping guides, at what looks like an attractive price:
>> Out of curiosity I looked at the reviews to see why it got a 4 rather
>> than a 5 star rating. I saw an obvious (well it's obvious now) solution
>> to one of my major issues with the clamp I have... use spring clamps to
>> keep the bar from moving while setting it up. Duh! LOL
>>
>> John
>
> Those rod style clamps also develop a "memory." I took a few back to
> Woodcraft because of this. After clamping in the same place several
> times... like at 48" for cutting a sheet of plywood in half... the rod
> will get an indent at that spot that makes it very difficult for it to
> hold adjacent to that point without slipping into the indent.
I haven't had a problem with the one I got at Woodworker's Warehouse. I've
had it for quite a while (they went out of business in January 2004).
It differs in design from the Rockler item in that the dumb end is fixed and
the clamp mechanism end slides. There is a cam lever that releases and locks
the clutch plates.
The only problem I've had is a spot of rust formed at about the mid-point of
the rod that I had to polish off. I typically wipe my tools down with WD-40
after use but I apparently either forgot or missed a spot...
Mine was made in Taiwan.
John
On 2/15/2012 9:51 AM, Richard wrote:
> On 2/15/2012 8:18 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/14/2012 7:51 PM, Richard wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2012 5:24 PM, Sonny wrote:
>>>> Screw or clamp a scrap straight edged board/strip, as a circular saw
>>>> guide, onto the waste side and cut it.
>>>>
>>>> Sonny
>>>
>>>
>>> I've done this several times - on my dinky little toy table say.
>>>
>>> It _usually_ goes ok...
>>> But if it grabs it's gonna be ugly.
>>
>> You have a table say!! I have no say at the table. :!)
>
>
> Sometimes my fingers don't pay attention to the keyboard...
That is just one of my problems, then the spell checker wants to change
the story... ;~)
On 2/19/2012 3:23 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:19:34 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> The ones in the last photo look like mine... they've been perfectly
>>> serviceable though I suspect the Festool gizmo is a finer tool!
>> Festool gizmo?
>
> Think he's referring to Festool guide rails. To me, the best
> comparison might be 'distant' cousins.
Ahhh ... posted a link to the picture, forgot the entire album was "public".
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On 2/14/2012 2:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
> that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>
> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
> that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
> problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
> up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
> time seems more and more limited.
As other's have noted, you can do it on a table saw, with a circular
saw, and with a hand saw.
I'm with Leon on the Table Saw. I would not hesitate to make the cut on
the table saw with an outfeed table, BUT, with the keeper part against
the fence!
On either the circular saw, or with a table saw, if you're worried about
the off cut binding (which can happen with either one), there is a very
simple solution to that which makes it much safer all around:
Span the kerf cut on each side after it's made, with some scraps, hot
glued to the _inside_ of the cabinet ... that will keep the cutoff 3"
part from moving/flopping around on you as you make each subsequent cut.
Using the table saw, this is a safer method I've used a few times on
tall boxes, as well as cutting large recycled plantation shutters down
in size.
YMMV ...
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On 2/14/2012 2:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
> sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
> were glued.
>
> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>
> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
> may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
> sides and back of each unit).
>
> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
> that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>
> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
> that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
> problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
> up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
> time seems more and more limited.
>
> Decisions, decisions.
>
> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
> But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
> it. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
Assuming your reference edge against the rip fence is even all the way
around on both ends I would cut the 3" off with the TS but have the 3"
on the waste side. The box is too tall/wide to be a particularly
vulnerable kick back hazard. Just make sure the work remains against
the fence during the entire cut.
On 2/15/2012 9:11 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 5:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On either the circular saw, or with a table saw, if you're worried about
>> the off cut binding (which can happen with either one), there is a very
>> simple solution to that which makes it much safer all around:
>>
>> Span the kerf cut on each side after it's made, with some scraps, hot
>> glued to the _inside_ of the cabinet ... that will keep the cutoff 3"
>> part from moving/flopping around on you as you make each subsequent cut.
>
> That's exactly what I was worried about. Sounds like a good idea.
Picture worth a dozen or so words:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5709436118163608578
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/19/2012 12:14 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>> I haven't had a problem with the one I got at Woodworker's Warehouse.
>> I've had it for quite a while (they went out of business in January
>> 2004).
>>
>> It differs in design from the Rockler item in that the dumb end is fixed
>> and the clamp mechanism end slides. There is a cam lever that releases
>> and locks the clutch plates.
>>
>> The only problem I've had is a spot of rust formed at about the
>> mid-point of the rod that I had to polish off. I typically wipe my tools
>> down with WD-40 after use but I apparently either forgot or missed a
>> spot...
>
> Do these these look familiar? IIRC, that's where I bought these back about
> ten years ago:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5710923255064598562
>
> Very handy for using an adjustable reference edge/guide for lots of
> things.
The ones in the last photo look like mine... they've been perfectly
serviceable though I suspect the Festool gizmo is a finer tool!
John
Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:58:31 -0500, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
>>I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
>>But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
> it. :)
>
> I have one of these and it's very useful. That's what I'd use and a
> circular saw with just enough blade to cut through the wood.
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=65694&cat=1,240,45313
>
> Now, if you're really concerned about safety, then go with a hand saw.
I have a clamp-on "ruler" like that, and it is worth the investment. A
careful measurement of the extra distance so the saw cuts where you want it
is fairly easy. Mine is about 5".
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All
> 5 sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the
> joints were glued.
>
> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
Circular saw with an edge guide, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-14000713-Guide-Circular-Saws/dp/B0006U66ES
> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence.
> I may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
> sides and back of each unit).
Looks like three setups from here, not six...
>
> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade,
2 7/8", not 3" -- you forgot to account for the thickness of the kerf.
> thus having the
> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence.
This is not Not NOT a good idea.
>Further thought tells
> me that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
Any time you hear a little voice in the back of your head saying "this could be dangerous", LISTEN.
You're right, this could be dangerous. Real dangerous.
Is there some reason you can't set the fence at (height of box minus 3") from the blade, so that the
box is on the fence side of the blade, and the waste on the free side?
Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 14 Feb 2012 21:54:30 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>I have a clamp-on "ruler" like that, and it is worth the investment.
>>A careful measurement of the extra distance so the saw cuts where you
>>want it is fairly easy. Mine is about 5".
>
> Mine frequently doubles as a router guide. It really is a handy tool.
I bought that accessory but haven't yet used it.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/14/2012 5:28 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Greg Guarino<[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have
>>> moveable shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27"
>>> high. All 5 sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply
>>> and all the joints were glued.
>>>
>>> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>>
>> Circular saw with an edge guide, e.g.
>> http://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-14000713-Guide-Circular-Saws/dp/B0006
>> U66ES
>
> As I mentioned elsewhere, that seemd like the kind of job that might
> require some "feel", feel I may not have yet.
You're right, it does take some "feel" but (a) not a lot, and (b) it's easily acquired. Practice on a few
pieces of scrap, and you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. The longer the guide surface, the easier
it is to do.
>
>>> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on
>>> fence. I may still do that, although it would require six setups
>>> (for the two sides and back of each unit).
>>
>> Looks like three setups from here, not six...
>
> There are three sides to cut on each of two boxes, so six repetitions
> of clamping on a guide, etc.
Oh, right, duh. You did say two boxes.
[...]
>> Any time you hear a little voice in the back of your head saying
>> "this could be dangerous", LISTEN.
>>
>> You're right, this could be dangerous. Real dangerous.
>
> Thank you for amplifying that "little voice"
YW.
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
>shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
>sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
>were glued.
>
> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>
> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
> may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two sides
> and back of each unit).
>
> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the "waste"
> piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me that this
> could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>
> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use that
> is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a problem.) But
> I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
I have in fact trimmed boxes of about 18X18 on my table saw simple by
running them against the fence with the waste on the left of the blade. In
your case, if there is no outfeed table I'd skip the table saw... Too much
weight to try to juggle around on a running saw as the cut is completed. Bad
things can happen!
Do you have a rip guide for your circular saw? My two Porter Cable saws (7
1/2" and 4 1/2") cut very nicely with the rip guides... I'd not hesitate to
cut the bottom off cabinet boxes with either.
John
On 2/14/2012 2:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
> sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
> were glued.
>
> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>
> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
> may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
> sides and back of each unit).
>
> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
> that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>
> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
> that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
> problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
> up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
> time seems more and more limited.
>
> Decisions, decisions.
>
> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
> But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
> it. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
I think I'd use a circular saw cutting just proud of the line and then
use the clamped on fence and a router to trim to the line.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
On 2/15/2012 8:10 PM, SteveA wrote:
> Having to do this same task once or twice I elected to do it opposite
> way that most are saying, having an extension table in my TS, I pull the
> fence back to the needed height, and let the waste side fall free.
Agreed. and almost every one who has replied with a suggestion to use
the table saw has indicated that is the safest method,
I
> have found when cutting a larger piece the final can close the on the
> cut and the blade can remove material. Of course I was hand feeding
> because using a miter was not an opeion due to the size.
That's the beauty of using the glue blocks to stabilize the offcut.
Most of those beautiful wooden boxes and chests you see with the perfect
fitting lids are made with all six sides glued up _before_ the lid is
cut off.
In order to get that perfect fit, you need a perfect cut, meaning you
don't want to run even the slightest risk of an accidental bind ruining
all your previous work .. generally meaning the top will no longer fit
perfectly.
Enter the hot melt glue blocks, glued in the appropriate places before
the top is glued on, and the box is closed up.
You can now run the whole shooting match through the table saw at the
proper depth of cut, and the box retains its shape and integrity, with
no danger whatsoever of a bind ... none.
It is an easy matter to use a small hand saw to saw through what's left
of the hot melt glue blocks, and they come off with no damage to the box
or top whatsoever.
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/14/2012 2:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
>> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
>> sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
>> were glued.
>>
>> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>>
>> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
>> may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
>> sides and back of each unit).
>>
>> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
>> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
>> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
>> that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>>
>> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
>> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
>> that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
>> problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
>> up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
>> time seems more and more limited.
>>
>> Decisions, decisions.
>>
>> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
>> But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
>> it. :)
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Assuming your reference edge against the rip fence is even all the way around on
> both ends I would cut the 3" off with the TS but have the 3" on the waste side.
> The box is too tall/wide to be a particularly vulnerable kick back hazard. Just
> make sure the work remains against the fence during the entire cut.
I agree with Leon re the reference edge. However, I've done this before
with the waste against the fence. My TS has a 50" fence so I put the
fence on the left side of the blade to allow use of the wider right side
table. After the second cut I tacked a couple of pieces of 1/4 ply over
the cuts (inside the box) to stabilize the remaining cuts.
Art
On 2/14/2012 2:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
> sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
> were glued.
>
> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>
> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
> may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
> sides and back of each unit).
>
> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
> that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>
> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
> that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
> problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
> up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
> time seems more and more limited.
>
> Decisions, decisions.
>
> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
> But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
> it. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
It sounds as if you have or have access to one of those little direct
drive table saws with a dinky little table. I would not attempt the cut
with one of these. If it is a real table saw with off feed and side
tables, it would be my first choice. It sounds to me that you may be
better served with the circular saw. One of the big problems will be
splintering of the finish cut as the blade teeth come up. You will need
to cut through the finish veneer with a utility knife or similar before
cutting. It would be a prime candidate for making a circular saw edge
guide similar to this:
http://womeninwoodworking.com/wiw/Story/Circular_Saw_Straight_Edge_7707.aspx
You don't need an 8 footer, but the concept is the same. Spend your
time on layout, scoring, and clamping or tacking your edge guide.
Good luck.
--
___________________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven
On 2/14/2012 4:27 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:58:31 -0500, Greg Guarino<[email protected]>
>> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
>> But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
> it. :)
>
> I have one of these and it's very useful. That's what I'd use and a
> circular saw with just enough blade to cut through the wood.
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=65694&cat=1,240,45313
I've got a couple of saw guides, but cheaper ones that require clamps.
That's fine most of the time, but in this case there'd be no exposed
edge to clamp to. The guides you suggest would solve that problem.
Of course, screwing a straight edge into the "waste" part of the box
would work as well. In that case I'd probably have to run the "narrow"
part of the saw plate against the fence though, as the amount I'm taking
off is probably less than the width of the "wide" part of the saw plate
plus the width of the guide.
Still thinking. Thanks for the tip.
On 2/14/2012 4:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> I have in fact trimmed boxes of about 18X18 on my table saw simple by
> running them against the fence with the waste on the left of the blade.
I assume this means setting the fence 24" (the intended finished height
of the cabinets) to the right of the blade. I have to check. This might
be more than the saw's capacity.
> In your case, if there is no outfeed table I'd skip the table saw... Too
> much weight to try to juggle around on a running saw as the cut is
> completed. Bad things can happen!
I'll bet. If there is indeed enough width to the table saw, I would in
fact have an outfeed table.
>
> Do you have a rip guide for your circular saw? My two Porter Cable saws
> (7 1/2" and 4 1/2") cut very nicely with the rip guides... I'd not
> hesitate to cut the bottom off cabinet boxes with either.
That sounds like skill might be involved; to move the saw just right
through the cut and offset any tendency it might have to curve toward
the edge. I'd have to practice on scrap first.
On 2/14/2012 5:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 2:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>
>> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
>> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
>> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
>> that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>>
>> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
>> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
>> that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
>> problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
>> up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
>> time seems more and more limited.
>
> As other's have noted, you can do it on a table saw, with a circular
> saw, and with a hand saw.
>
> I'm with Leon on the Table Saw. I would not hesitate to make the cut on
> the table saw with an outfeed table, BUT, with the keeper part against
> the fence!
I have to check the maximum cut width, or whatever it's called. My sense
is that it might not be wide enough
> On either the circular saw, or with a table saw, if you're worried about
> the off cut binding (which can happen with either one), there is a very
> simple solution to that which makes it much safer all around:
>
> Span the kerf cut on each side after it's made, with some scraps, hot
> glued to the _inside_ of the cabinet ... that will keep the cutoff 3"
> part from moving/flopping around on you as you make each subsequent cut.
That's exactly what I was worried about. Sounds like a good idea.
On 2/14/2012 3:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
...
> Do you have a rip guide for your circular saw? My two Porter Cable saws
> (7 1/2" and 4 1/2") cut very nicely with the rip guides... I'd not
> hesitate to cut the bottom off cabinet boxes with either.
I'd either do that or just get out the handsaw and be done...
--
On 2/14/2012 5:28 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Greg Guarino<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
>> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All
>> 5 sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the
>> joints were glued.
>>
>> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>
> Circular saw with an edge guide, e.g.
> http://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-14000713-Guide-Circular-Saws/dp/B0006U66ES
As I mentioned elsewhere, that seemd like the kind of job that might
require some "feel", feel I may not have yet.
>> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence.
>> I may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
>> sides and back of each unit).
>
> Looks like three setups from here, not six...
There are three sides to cut on each of two boxes, so six repetitions of
clamping on a guide, etc.
>> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
>> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade,
>
> 2 7/8", not 3" -- you forgot to account for the thickness of the kerf.
3" was just an approximate number I threw out for brevity, but thanks
for the reminder anyway; I am capable of any number of silly mistakes.
>> thus having the
>> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence.
>
> This is not Not NOT a good idea.
>
>> Further thought tells
>> me that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>
> Any time you hear a little voice in the back of your head saying "this could be dangerous", LISTEN.
>
> You're right, this could be dangerous. Real dangerous.
Thank you for amplifying that "little voice"
> Is there some reason you can't set the fence at (height of box minus 3") from the blade, so that the
> box is on the fence side of the blade, and the waste on the free side?
The boxes are pretty tall, possibly too tall to fit between the blade
and the furthest possible position of the fence (even at their cut-down,
"finished" height). I'll have to check when I get a chance.
Thanks for the warnings. That's why I post here.
On 2/14/2012 6:09 PM, DanG wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 2:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
>> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
>> sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
>> were glued.
>>
>> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>>
>> I had originally planned to use a circular saw and a clamped-on fence. I
>> may still do that, although it would require six setups (for the two
>> sides and back of each unit).
>>
>> However, a table saw has recently entered my orbit. I had originally
>> thought to set the saw's fence 3" from the blade, thus having the
>> "waste" piece between the blade and the fence. Further thought tells me
>> that this could be dangerous, especially on the third cut.
>>
>> But the cabinets are too big for a standard miter gauge, and in fact too
>> big for the table. (I believe there is an auxiliary table I could use
>> that is the same height as the table saw, so that might not be a
>> problem.) But I suppose I'd need to build a sled with a stop. If I end
>> up using the saw a lot, a crosscut sled might be a useful thing, but my
>> time seems more and more limited.
>>
>> Decisions, decisions.
>>
>> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
>> But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at
>> it. :)
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> It sounds as if you have or have access to one of those little direct
> drive table saws with a dinky little table. I would not attempt the cut
> with one of these.
It's bigger than that; a seventies-era Craftsman, on legs, with wings.
If it is a real table saw with off feed and side
> tables, it would be my first choice.
There's a separate table that looks to be exactly the same height. It
could be put to use as either, but not both.
It sounds to me that you may be
> better served with the circular saw. One of the big problems will be
> splintering of the finish cut as the blade teeth come up. You will need
> to cut through the finish veneer with a utility knife or similar before
> cutting. It would be a prime candidate for making a circular saw edge
> guide similar to this:
> http://womeninwoodworking.com/wiw/Story/Circular_Saw_Straight_Edge_7707.aspx
>
>
> You don't need an 8 footer, but the concept is the same. Spend your time
> on layout, scoring, and clamping or tacking your edge guide. Good luck.
I've got an edge guide. It consists of two 4' pieces of aluminum
extrusion. I've used it a fair amount and I'm comfortable with it. But
reclamping the guide 6 times, especially as the box shpe doesn't lend
itself to clamping, sounds like a pain.
I think I will measure the table saw capacity first. If it is too small,
I may buy one of those guides with a built-in clamping system and use it
with my circular saw.
On 2/19/12 11:27 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:10708568.3.1329629041810.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbpw16...
>> I finally got around to measuring the maximum distance between the rip
>> fence and the blade. It's about 24". But the intended height of the
>> >cabinets is more like 27". So I took your advice and ordered one of
>> those self-clamping guides, at what looks like an attractive price:
>
>> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25134
>
>> I can only assume that no one was buying the 50" model.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised to hear that is the most popular size... cross
> cutting sheet goods is a common use for this type of clamp. Though I
> have a 50" fence on my cabinet saw I find that it helps to break down
> sheet goods by making an initial rough dimension cross-cut with a clamp
> straight edge and a PC trim saw. This as no matter how many times I've
> done it, sliding an 8 foot sheet across the table saw for a cross cut
> doesn't always give perfect cuts. This is especially true if the sheet
> good is relatively rough as it doesn't slide smoothly.
>
> Out of curiosity I looked at the reviews to see why it got a 4 rather
> than a 5 star rating. I saw an obvious (well it's obvious now) solution
> to one of my major issues with the clamp I have... use spring clamps to
> keep the bar from moving while setting it up. Duh! LOL
>
> John
Those rod style clamps also develop a "memory." I took a few back to
Woodcraft because of this. After clamping in the same place several
times... like at 48" for cutting a sheet of plywood in half... the rod
will get an indent at that spot that makes it very difficult for it to
hold adjacent to that point without slipping into the indent.
So if you've just cut a bunch of 4' shelves using the 50" clamp, then
you try to clamp it at a little more or less than 48" exactly, it slips
back to 48" or doesn't hold tight enough at the new position. This can
be frustrating and renders to tool useless in my book.
I don't know if it's just a problem with the Woodcraft clamps and all
clamps made by E. Emerson Tool Co., or if it happens with any rod style
clamp. But it happened enough to me that I just started buying the ones
from Harbor Freight so I could just swap them at store when it happened,
or consider it a disposable tool at that price.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:10708568.3.1329629041810.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbpw16...
>I finally got around to measuring the maximum distance between the rip
>fence and the blade. It's about 24". But the intended height of the
> >cabinets is more like 27". So I took your advice and ordered one of those
>self-clamping guides, at what looks like an attractive price:
>http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25134
>I can only assume that no one was buying the 50" model.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that is the most popular size... cross
cutting sheet goods is a common use for this type of clamp. Though I have a
50" fence on my cabinet saw I find that it helps to break down sheet goods
by making an initial rough dimension cross-cut with a clamp straight edge
and a PC trim saw. This as no matter how many times I've done it, sliding an
8 foot sheet across the table saw for a cross cut doesn't always give
perfect cuts. This is especially true if the sheet good is relatively rough
as it doesn't slide smoothly.
Out of curiosity I looked at the reviews to see why it got a 4 rather than a
5 star rating. I saw an obvious (well it's obvious now) solution to one of
my major issues with the clamp I have... use spring clamps to keep the bar
from moving while setting it up. Duh! LOL
John
Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two plywood "boxes" I built a long time ago. They have moveable
> shelves in them) They are maybe 22" wide by 20" deep by 27" high. All 5
> sides (top, bottom, 2 sides, back) are 3/4" birch ply and all the joints
> were glued.
>
> I need to "shorten" the boxes; removing 3-4" from their height.
>
Snip
> Decisions, decisions.
>
> I'm sorry for thinking out loud, without asking a clear-cut question.
> But that hasn't gotten in the way of useful advice before, so have at it. :)
>
> Thanks in advance.
I generally do it with a hatchet. It has to be very sharp.
First I snap a chalk line, enhance it with a magic marker and go to
work. It helps if you cut through the veneer layer with a chainsaw,
bow saw or similar instrument. Then, working slowly (as I always do),
you use the hatchet to "sneak up on" the line. It is a lot of work,
but most of us need more exercise anyway.
--
Gerald Ross
Where do all the characters you
BACKSPACE over go?
On 14 Feb 2012 21:54:30 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have a clamp-on "ruler" like that, and it is worth the investment. A
>careful measurement of the extra distance so the saw cuts where you want it
>is fairly easy. Mine is about 5".
Mine frequently doubles as a router guide. It really is a handy tool.
On 2/15/2012 8:18 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 7:51 PM, Richard wrote:
>> On 2/14/2012 5:24 PM, Sonny wrote:
>>> Screw or clamp a scrap straight edged board/strip, as a circular saw
>>> guide, onto the waste side and cut it.
>>>
>>> Sonny
>>
>>
>> I've done this several times - on my dinky little toy table say.
>>
>> It _usually_ goes ok...
>> But if it grabs it's gonna be ugly.
>
> You have a table say!! I have no say at the table. :!)
Sometimes my fingers don't pay attention to the keyboard...
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/19/2012 3:23 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:19:34 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The ones in the last photo look like mine... they've been perfectly
>>>> serviceable though I suspect the Festool gizmo is a finer tool!
>>> Festool gizmo?
>>
>> Think he's referring to Festool guide rails. To me, the best
>> comparison might be 'distant' cousins.
>
> Ahhh ... posted a link to the picture, forgot the entire album was
> "public".
Yup... Festool was up first... decided to scroll to see if there was
something else for which I was supposed to be looking.
John
On 2/19/2012 12:14 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> I haven't had a problem with the one I got at Woodworker's Warehouse.
> I've had it for quite a while (they went out of business in January 2004).
>
> It differs in design from the Rockler item in that the dumb end is fixed
> and the clamp mechanism end slides. There is a cam lever that releases
> and locks the clutch plates.
>
> The only problem I've had is a spot of rust formed at about the
> mid-point of the rod that I had to polish off. I typically wipe my tools
> down with WD-40 after use but I apparently either forgot or missed a
> spot...
Do these these look familiar? IIRC, that's where I bought these back
about ten years ago:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5710923255064598562
Very handy for using an adjustable reference edge/guide for lots of things.
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:19:34 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> The ones in the last photo look like mine... they've been perfectly
>>> serviceable though I suspect the Festool gizmo is a finer tool!
>>Festool gizmo?
>
> Think he's referring to Festool guide rails. To me, the best
> comparison might be 'distant' cousins.
Yeah.... that thing. ;~)
John