Tool Prices

[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:06:52 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> I can't imagine lining the required amount of Dominoes needed to make a
>> structurally sound joints.
>
> Clafication: On something the size of a door. No need to argue the
> obvious value of making structurally sound joints. On further
> clarification, I would be more concerned with he alignment of all the
> required Dominoes and their close tolerances of something that size and
> bulk when assembling.
>
> Robert
>

Alignment is not difficult. Dry fit and mark both sides if all joints.
Then cut exact fit mortises on one side and the elongated oversized mortise
on the other.

[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 7:50:46 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>
>> Alignment is not difficult. Dry fit and mark both sides if all joints.
>> Then cut exact fit mortises on one side and the elongated oversized mortise
>> on the other.
>
> Leon, I have no doubt YOU could do it that way. But I am thinking of the
> odd sized doors we used to build (regular sizes were always purchased as
> blanks) as needed. For example, I remember building double 42" wide
> doors for a restaurant.
>
> I framed the door with kiln dried 2x6 (remember being able to easily
> purchase kiln dried wood?) and framed out the top, bottom, and sides with
> that, and put a a couple of 2x6s vertically inside that frame. With 2
> sheets of 1/4" plywood as skins, plenty of PL400, we had a helluva door.
> It may be my lack of experience with he Domino machine, but I am thinking
> that with all the tenons that would be needed it would be impossible to
> get all of them aligned well enough to assemble. At least for me!
>
> BTW, the giant tenons never failed. By the time I got to the other end of
> the door when assembling the door, all I had to do was tap it together. I
> assembled the door frames with yellow glue and knocked a couple of 4d
> nails on each side and from each side while assembling. I used the PL400
> on the skins as it was more flexible than the yellow glue and therefore
> less brittle when under heavy use.
>
> How strange... typing this I realize it has been decades since I built
> the doors. milled a jamb, set the hinges and hung the door. Just no need
> for those skills anymore.
>
> Robert
>

No doubt your method worked exquisitely. And I did not intent to suggest
that the Domino would be the better choice. I just wanted to assure you
that there are tricks that eliminate any concern with alignment. I don't
give alignment much more than a second thought. I always have wiggle room.
But having said that some elements of the Domino mortiser, IMHO, are over
engineered and therefore hard to ignore, but I do ignore them. :-)

And I do not think I would be interested in building a fancy exterior door.
Too many factors to take into consideration. I would leave exterior door
building up to those with the knowledgable of the weather and temperature
issues that can not be ignored.

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:46:05 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

> No doubt your method worked exquisitely. And I did not intent to suggest
> that the Domino would be the better choice. I just wanted to assure you
> that there are tricks that eliminate any concern with alignment. I don't
> give alignment much more than a second thought. I always have wiggle roo=
m.
> But having said that some elements of the Domino mortiser, IMHO, are ov=
er
> engineered and therefore hard to ignore, but I do ignore them. :-)
>=20
> And I do not think I would be interested in building a fancy exterior doo=
r.
> Too many factors to take into consideration. I would leave exterior doo=
r
> building up to those with the knowledgable of the weather and temperature
> issues that can not be ignored.

Actually, it can be not only challenging, but a lot of fun. I think it wou=
ld be right up your alley to build one of the old Mediterranean style doors=
with all the panels. LOTS of precision machining of parts. Different adh=
esives, adhesives based on wood type, and on an on.

I hope I am never in your shop when you are indexing, marking, putting in a=
lignment Dominoes, structure Dominoes, decorative Dominoes, etc. I can see=
that I would have to have one, think of a hundred projects to use it on im=
mediately, then a month later thinking... "why in the hell did I just spend=
a grand on this machine?". That is one of the few hand tools I have NEVER=
used. I could easily see me inventing projects of uses for the machine rat=
her than using the machine on projects.

I blame it all on you. Honestly, had I not seen all the ways you have used =
that tool for all manner of useful joints and joinery, I would have dismiss=
ed it out of hand as a bored shop owner's tool that was purchased for bragg=
ing rights only. I know two different people that have Domino machines, an=
d looking at your efforts they haven't even scratched the surface of its ca=
pabilities. One is afraid to use it because of its price tag. He is pleas=
ed to talk about it and speculate in its use, but he sure hasn't done much =
with it. The other uses it about three times a year when making some shop =
project. Doubtful he has used the sample tenons that came with the machine.

You are the Lone (Domino) Ranger, Leon!

Robert

<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:59:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/27/2017 12:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:26:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/26/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>>>> ones that I have bought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>>>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>>>> 50% more expensive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>>>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>>>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>>>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
>>>>> probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
>>>>> improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
>>>>> of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
>>>>> make good use of your tools--I am working on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I have a big feeling that the price increase is mostly due to the
>>>> government debt. Our dollars keep losing value.
>>>
>>> Not true: <http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=10Y>
>>>
>>> They should be getting cheaper.
>>>>
>>>> BUT as you point out, the tools that seem to be the most popular and or
>>>> exclusive are the ones that increase in cost the most.
>>>>
>>>> I was a bit suprised that their drills have pretty much stayed the same
>>>> over the last 4~5 years or actually gone down in price.
>>>
>>> I know you like their drills but I don't see anything special about
>>> them.
>>
>> The thing that I like with the Festool drill is that it had heavy duty
>> swapable attachments. And I really like the "electronic" clutch. The
>> drill shuts off when the predetermined torque is reached, none of that
>> rattling noise of a slipping clutch, and therefore smoother.
>>
>> And I do not really know if this is true with all modern drills or not
>> but I used to have a 12 volt Makita drill/driver and an impact driver.
>> I use the impact driver more than the drill/driver. I have not used
>> that impact driver since getting the Festool drill, T15, just a touch
>> higher voltage. The power is smooth and controlled.
>
> I hear you but I'm unconvinced. I rather like the operation of an
> impact driver. I find it helps keep the bit from camming out. I can
> pull a buggered screw with the impact driver that there is no way to
> get out with a driver/drill.

On occasion I use my Bosch impact. For the same reasons you mention,
especially when removing. Or if I am mounting slides and predrillng with a
Vix bit. I use the impact as a drill in that circumstance no the Festool
drill to drive.









>
>> I think you've hit the nail squarely, though. The tools that
>>> there is a percieved (or real) value to the Festool brand, have been
>>> getting more expensive. Others, not as much.
>>>>
>>>> Festool batteries are/were quite expensive. $100+ each in the 15 volt
>>>> range. They are about half that now. Swingman and I went to a Festool
>>>> traveling show. When you registered to view the display they were
>>>> giving away caps, t-shirts, or batteries. Guess which one I took.
>>>
>>> The technology behind batteries has been getting cheaper.
>>>
>> Yes. IIRC the free battery was 5.0 amp.
>

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:02:46 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

> On occasion I use my Bosch impact. For the same reasons you mention,
> especially when removing. Or if I am mounting slides and predrillng with=
a
> Vix bit. I use the impact as a drill in that circumstance no the Festool
> drill to drive.=20

I have had to take the impact drivers out of the hands of some of my guys. =
They LOVE the compact size, but they continually overdrive screws with the=
m. Passage door hinges, mounting screws, and on an on that simply need to =
be snug are drawn up to the point of distorting the attachment materials. W=
ith a regular drill/driver you can feel the screw tension and hear the soun=
ds without all the chatter of the impact driver.

Just as bad, they like to use the impact driver to drill holes. The hex bo=
died drill bits are rarely concentric, and the chucks on the impact drivers=
certainly aren't. So you get inaccurate holes sizes, which especially when=
doing metal work is unacceptable. Nothing like drilling a hole that won't=
hold a screw correctly.

I have noticed that a lot of tool prices have actually gone down. Certainl=
y not Festool, but different tools from DeWalt, Bosch, Milwaukee, etc. that=
have comparable specs to yesteryear are about the same price. I had a gre=
at talk with the local DeWalt rep and he was able to supply a great deal of=
info on the subject.

- parts made overseas in factories that make just a few parts, not whole to=
ols. So for example there is a plant that makes drive belts in Thailand, a=
plant in Indonesia that makes switches, a plant in one part of China that =
makes the plastic housings, bearings that come from India, and the parts ar=
e assembled in China or Mexico=20

- computer driven design takes a huge consideration towards manufacturing e=
ase and efficiency. It also creates designs that can automate the producti=
on as much as possible

- certain parts aren't made the same way they were years ago. His example =
was the die cast gears in most DeWalt drills/drivers/saws compared to 25 ye=
ars ago when their better drills/saws had machine cut gears

- whole tools assembled in specialty assembly factories that use outsourced=
parts

- commonality of parts. Triggers, speed control boards, motors, etc. may b=
e used in several different models and brands if owned by the same parent c=
ompany

The trade off certainly is the lack of quality. My boys that like their ye=
llow tools are completely unhappy with most of the DeWalt line now as they =
lack the durability and reliability. Likewise the Makita tools that are fr=
om that zebra striped line. What I see most going to these days is Ridgid.=
Not for superior performance or ease of use, but because they are reliabl=
e and they have a great warranty. I have used the warranty twice and both t=
imes they were speedy and didn't argue with me.

I have thought for a few years now that we are just as much in the warranty=
buying business as we are tool buying business.

Robert=20

On 2/26/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>> ones that I have bought.
>>
>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>
>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>
>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>
>>
>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>
>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>> 50% more expensive.
>>
>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>
>>
>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>
>
> They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
> probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
> improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
> of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
> make good use of your tools--I am working on it.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
I have a big feeling that the price increase is mostly due to the
government debt. Our dollars keep losing value.

BUT as you point out, the tools that seem to be the most popular and or
exclusive are the ones that increase in cost the most.

I was a bit suprised that their drills have pretty much stayed the same
over the last 4~5 years or actually gone down in price.

Festool batteries are/were quite expensive. $100+ each in the 15 volt
range. They are about half that now. Swingman and I went to a Festool
traveling show. When you registered to view the display they were
giving away caps, t-shirts, or batteries. Guess which one I took.

On 2/28/2017 8:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:02:40 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:59:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/27/2017 12:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:26:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/26/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>>>>>> ones that I have bought.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>>>>>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>>>>>> 50% more expensive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>>>>>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>>>>>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>>>>>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
>>>>>>> probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
>>>>>>> improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
>>>>>>> of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
>>>>>>> make good use of your tools--I am working on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a big feeling that the price increase is mostly due to the
>>>>>> government debt. Our dollars keep losing value.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not true: <http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=10Y>
>>>>>
>>>>> They should be getting cheaper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BUT as you point out, the tools that seem to be the most popular and or
>>>>>> exclusive are the ones that increase in cost the most.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was a bit suprised that their drills have pretty much stayed the same
>>>>>> over the last 4~5 years or actually gone down in price.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you like their drills but I don't see anything special about
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> The thing that I like with the Festool drill is that it had heavy duty
>>>> swapable attachments. And I really like the "electronic" clutch. The
>>>> drill shuts off when the predetermined torque is reached, none of that
>>>> rattling noise of a slipping clutch, and therefore smoother.
>>>>
>>>> And I do not really know if this is true with all modern drills or not
>>>> but I used to have a 12 volt Makita drill/driver and an impact driver.
>>>> I use the impact driver more than the drill/driver. I have not used
>>>> that impact driver since getting the Festool drill, T15, just a touch
>>>> higher voltage. The power is smooth and controlled.
>>>
>>> I hear you but I'm unconvinced. I rather like the operation of an
>>> impact driver. I find it helps keep the bit from camming out. I can
>>> pull a buggered screw with the impact driver that there is no way to
>>> get out with a driver/drill.
>>
>> On occasion I use my Bosch impact. For the same reasons you mention,
>> especially when removing. Or if I am mounting slides and predrillng with a
>> Vix bit. I use the impact as a drill in that circumstance no the Festool
>> drill to drive.
>
> I actually hadn't thought about puting the Vix bits in the impact
> driver. No real reason to, though. No, I wouldn't use an impact
> driver to drive that sort of screw either. I have plain drivers for
> that.
>
> <...>
>
I use the impact because it is handy and simply spins with no load. and
I do not have to swap bits. I seldom use the impact for any other
reason. FWIW I used the Makita impact a lot before I got the Festool
drill. The Bosch impact just showed up on my front porch one day,
addressed to me. Still a mystery as to who sent it, it came directly
from Bosch.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 19:09:32 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:18:04 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:44:59 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 19:24:37 -0500, krw wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:29:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>>>ones that I have bought.
>>>>>
>>>>>5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>>>5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>>>
>>>>>1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>>>5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>>>
>>>>>4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>>>
>>>>>The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>>>50% more expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>>The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>>>were 4~5 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>>>tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>>>controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It looks like the green in my basement has appreciated more than the
>>>> green in my 401K. ;-) =or= :-(
>>>
>>>Other than perpetually humping Leon's leg at every opportunity, have you
>>>ever used any of your tools to actually make anything?
>>
>> My, my. We have someone on the hook who hasn't been laid in a decade,
>> it seems. You should fix that problem. There's probably a knothole in
>> the back yard somewhere.
>
>I get more pussy than Tampex, you petulant little wankstain. Your
>deflective sophomoric reply confirms my assertion that you're nothing
>more than a leg-humping keyboard cowboy... all talk and no cattle.

A fundamental rule of the universe is that the more one talks about
it, the less one does. Now, tell us about your 12" dick, too.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:06:52 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote=
:
=20
> I can't imagine lining the required amount of Dominoes needed to make a s=
tructurally sound joints.

Clafication: On something the size of a door. No need to argue the obvio=
us value of making structurally sound joints. On further clarification, I =
would be more concerned with he alignment of all the required Dominoes and =
their close tolerances of something that size and bulk when assembling.

Robert

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:08:28 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:02:46 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>
>> On occasion I use my Bosch impact. For the same reasons you mention,
>> especially when removing. Or if I am mounting slides and predrillng with a
>> Vix bit. I use the impact as a drill in that circumstance no the Festool
>> drill to drive.
>
>I have had to take the impact drivers out of the hands of some of my guys. They LOVE the compact size, but they continually overdrive screws with them. Passage door hinges, mounting screws, and on an on that simply need to be snug are drawn up to the point of distorting the attachment materials. With a regular drill/driver you can feel the screw tension and hear the sounds without all the chatter of the impact driver.
>
>Just as bad, they like to use the impact driver to drill holes. The hex bodied drill bits are rarely concentric, and the chucks on the impact drivers certainly aren't. So you get inaccurate holes sizes, which especially when doing metal work is unacceptable. Nothing like drilling a hole that won't hold a screw correctly.
>
>I have noticed that a lot of tool prices have actually gone down. Certainly not Festool, but different tools from DeWalt, Bosch, Milwaukee, etc. that have comparable specs to yesteryear are about the same price. I had a great talk with the local DeWalt rep and he was able to supply a great deal of info on the subject.
>
>- parts made overseas in factories that make just a few parts, not whole tools. So for example there is a plant that makes drive belts in Thailand, a plant in Indonesia that makes switches, a plant in one part of China that makes the plastic housings, bearings that come from India, and the parts are assembled in China or Mexico
>
>- computer driven design takes a huge consideration towards manufacturing ease and efficiency. It also creates designs that can automate the production as much as possible
>
>- certain parts aren't made the same way they were years ago. His example was the die cast gears in most DeWalt drills/drivers/saws compared to 25 years ago when their better drills/saws had machine cut gears
>
>- whole tools assembled in specialty assembly factories that use outsourced parts

Or built on "factory ships" that travel the PacRim picking up the
required parts, then deliver the assembled goods to North America
>
>- commonality of parts. Triggers, speed control boards, motors, etc. may be used in several different models and brands if owned by the same parent company
>
>The trade off certainly is the lack of quality. My boys that like their yellow tools are completely unhappy with most of the DeWalt line now as they lack the durability and reliability. Likewise the Makita tools that are from that zebra striped line. What I see most going to these days is Ridgid. Not for superior performance or ease of use, but because they are reliable and they have a great warranty. I have used the warranty twice and both times they were speedy and didn't argue with me.
>
>I have thought for a few years now that we are just as much in the warranty buying business as we are tool buying business.
>
>Robert
But even the best warranty in the world doesn't change the fact that
you areinconvenienced by the failure, and working with crappy tools is
not fun. Virtually all of my "heavy use" tools are well over 15 years
old and some well over 30) and LONG out of warranty. They will likely
still be useable when inherited by my sons-in-law.

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 21:01:43 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 21:35:39 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>>>I get more pussy than Tampex, you petulant little wankstain. Your
>>>deflective sophomoric reply confirms my assertion that you're nothing
>>>more than a leg-humping keyboard cowboy... all talk and no cattle.
>>
>> A fundamental rule of the universe is that the more one talks about it,
>> the less one does. Now, tell us about your 12" dick, too.
>
>Don't bother with this nut. He stole the "Trenbidia" tag from me - guess
>I just won't use it anymore. I sure don't want to be associated with
>some nut who's fried his brain on meth and this is the only way he can
>think of to pump up his non-existent ego.

Wow, you really are an excitable kook! Dissociative identity
disorder, too.

>Wait for it - here comes his asinine response :).

No, that's *all* yours.

On 2/27/2017 12:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:26:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>> ones that I have bought.
>>>>
>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>>
>>>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>>
>>>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>>
>>>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>> 50% more expensive.
>>>>
>>>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>>
>>>
>>> They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
>>> probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
>>> improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
>>> of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
>>> make good use of your tools--I am working on it.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I have a big feeling that the price increase is mostly due to the
>> government debt. Our dollars keep losing value.
>
> Not true: <http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=10Y>
>
> They should be getting cheaper.
>>
>> BUT as you point out, the tools that seem to be the most popular and or
>> exclusive are the ones that increase in cost the most.
>>
>> I was a bit suprised that their drills have pretty much stayed the same
>> over the last 4~5 years or actually gone down in price.
>
> I know you like their drills but I don't see anything special about
> them.

The thing that I like with the Festool drill is that it had heavy duty
swapable attachments. And I really like the "electronic" clutch. The
drill shuts off when the predetermined torque is reached, none of that
rattling noise of a slipping clutch, and therefore smoother.

And I do not really know if this is true with all modern drills or not
but I used to have a 12 volt Makita drill/driver and an impact driver.
I use the impact driver more than the drill/driver. I have not used
that impact driver since getting the Festool drill, T15, just a touch
higher voltage. The power is smooth and controlled.



I think you've hit the nail squarely, though. The tools that
> there is a percieved (or real) value to the Festool brand, have been
> getting more expensive. Others, not as much.
>>
>> Festool batteries are/were quite expensive. $100+ each in the 15 volt
>> range. They are about half that now. Swingman and I went to a Festool
>> traveling show. When you registered to view the display they were
>> giving away caps, t-shirts, or batteries. Guess which one I took.
>
> The technology behind batteries has been getting cheaper.
>
Yes. IIRC the free battery was 5.0 amp.

On 2/26/2017 6:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:29:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>> ones that I have bought.
>>
>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>
>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>
>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>
>>
>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>
>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>> 50% more expensive.
>>
>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>
>>
>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>
>>
> It looks like the green in my basement has appreciated more than the
> green in my 401K. ;-) =or= :-(
>
> BTW, loose hearing is a lot worse than loose women. ;-)

The screaming shop vacs make my ears fall off. :~)

On 3/2/2017 12:28 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:46:05 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>
>> No doubt your method worked exquisitely. And I did not intent to
>> suggest that the Domino would be the better choice. I just wanted
>> to assure you that there are tricks that eliminate any concern with
>> alignment. I don't give alignment much more than a second thought.
>> I always have wiggle room. But having said that some elements of
>> the Domino mortiser, IMHO, are over engineered and therefore hard
>> to ignore, but I do ignore them. :-)
>>
>> And I do not think I would be interested in building a fancy
>> exterior door. Too many factors to take into consideration. I
>> would leave exterior door building up to those with the
>> knowledgable of the weather and temperature issues that can not be
>> ignored.
>
> Actually, it can be not only challenging, but a lot of fun. I think
> it would be right up your alley to build one of the old Mediterranean
> style doors with all the panels. LOTS of precision machining of
> parts. Different adhesives, adhesives based on wood type, and on an
> on.

I would probably have to buy a jointer although I have a jig to flatten
boards with my planer. Flat would probably be my issue, with cabinets,
dado's straighten out any bow. I guess I could build a matching bowed
door jam. ;~)

>
> I hope I am never in your shop when you are indexing, marking,
> putting in alignment Dominoes, structure Dominoes, decorative
> Dominoes, etc. I can see that I would have to have one, think of a
> hundred projects to use it on immediately, then a month later
> thinking... "why in the hell did I just spend a grand on this
> machine?". That is one of the few hand tools I have NEVER used. I
> could easily see me inventing projects of uses for the machine rather
> than using the machine on projects.

LOL, Well you would have to build a lot of furniture OR Doors to justify
the expense. To be honest the Domino was very new when I bought and I
was not sure how much I would use it. But as I used it more and saw how
consistently accurate it could be I began to push my limits with it. If
you will recall the "Tower" cabinets in our bedroom, I had a combination
of 8 sides, shelves, bottoms, and tops going together all in ONE glue up
session. Domino's connected the fronts/backs and sides together and
also registered where the fixed shelves, bottoms, and tops fit inside
the cabinet. And no two sides, fronts, or backs were identical, each
was unique. I had to be extremely anal in gluing up each panel so that
each rail, 4 on each IIRC, would perfectly register with each rail on
the other outer 3 sides. I premorticed the rails to receive Dominoes in
each rail before the glue up of each exterior panel, those registered
the location of each horizontal interior surface.
Believe me I had several "modified" dominoes to help with registration
during the dry fit of the 8 pieces should there be an alignment problem.
Luckily dry fit on both cabinets went together as planned.

I am going to give a lot of credit to Sketch up for allowing me to have
very detailed drawings of exactly how this was to all go together. 3D
drawing is very helpful in seeing problems.


>
> I blame it all on you. Honestly, had I not seen all the ways you have
> used that tool for all manner of useful joints and joinery, I would
> have dismissed it out of hand as a bored shop owner's tool that was
> purchased for bragging rights only. I know two different people that
> have Domino machines, and looking at your efforts they haven't even
> scratched the surface of its capabilities. One is afraid to use it
> because of its price tag. He is pleased to talk about it and
> speculate in its use, but he sure hasn't done much with it. The
> other uses it about three times a year when making some shop project.
> Doubtful he has used the sample tenons that came with the machine.

The Domino is very much like a Plate Joiner/Biscuit Cutter but on
steroids. I suspect it may be of comparable quality to high end Lamello
biscuit machines. After thousands and thousands of mortises nothing
shows any wear and nothing that has adjustable settings has become
sloppy. AND I am still using the same/original 5 mm bit that came with
the Domino. I have an assortment, including an extra 5mm bit. I have
never used that extra 5mm bit.

>
> You are the Lone (Domino) Ranger, Leon!

;~) Others know me as "Running Snake".

>
> Robert
>

The exchange rates have an impact too...

On 2/28/2017 2:08 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:02:46 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>
>> On occasion I use my Bosch impact. For the same reasons you
>> mention, especially when removing. Or if I am mounting slides and
>> predrillng with a Vix bit. I use the impact as a drill in that
>> circumstance no the Festool drill to drive.
>
> I have had to take the impact drivers out of the hands of some of my
> guys. They LOVE the compact size, but they continually overdrive
> screws with them. Passage door hinges, mounting screws, and on an on
> that simply need to be snug are drawn up to the point of distorting
> the attachment materials. With a regular drill/driver you can feel
> the screw tension and hear the sounds without all the chatter of the
> impact driver.

Yeah!

>
> Just as bad, they like to use the impact driver to drill holes. The
> hex bodied drill bits are rarely concentric, and the chucks on the
> impact drivers certainly aren't. So you get inaccurate holes sizes,
> which especially when doing metal work is unacceptable. Nothing like
> drilling a hole that won't hold a screw correctly.

Yeah, as mentioned above, I mostly only use the impact to drill pilot
holes with the Vix.

>
> I have noticed that a lot of tool prices have actually gone down.
> Certainly not Festool, but different tools from DeWalt, Bosch,
> Milwaukee, etc. that have comparable specs to yesteryear are about
> the same price. I had a great talk with the local DeWalt rep and he
> was able to supply a great deal of info on the subject.
>
> - parts made overseas in factories that make just a few parts, not
> whole tools. So for example there is a plant that makes drive belts
> in Thailand, a plant in Indonesia that makes switches, a plant in one
> part of China that makes the plastic housings, bearings that come
> from India, and the parts are assembled in China or Mexico
>
> - computer driven design takes a huge consideration towards
> manufacturing ease and efficiency. It also creates designs that can
> automate the production as much as possible
>
> - certain parts aren't made the same way they were years ago. His
> example was the die cast gears in most DeWalt drills/drivers/saws
> compared to 25 years ago when their better drills/saws had machine
> cut gears
>
> - whole tools assembled in specialty assembly factories that use
> outsourced parts
>
> - commonality of parts. Triggers, speed control boards, motors, etc.
> may be used in several different models and brands if owned by the
> same parent company


No doubt there, Powermatic and Jet have a lot of very common machines
with mostly a color difference.

>
> The trade off certainly is the lack of quality. My boys that like
> their yellow tools are completely unhappy with most of the DeWalt
> line now as they lack the durability and reliability. Likewise the
> Makita tools that are from that zebra striped line. What I see most
> going to these days is Ridgid. Not for superior performance or ease
> of use, but because they are reliable and they have a great warranty.
> I have used the warranty twice and both times they were speedy and
> didn't argue with me.

Good to know. Most unlimited warranties seem to have too many hoops to
jump through.


>
> I have thought for a few years now that we are just as much in the
> warranty buying business as we are tool buying business.
>
> Robert
>

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 8:23:33 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
=20
> I pointed out that this is true but do you want to use an oversized tool=
=20
> when 98% of the time the smaller much lighter weight version probably=20
> has more advantages. I can tell you from experience that even the small=
=20
> Domino gets heavy after a hundred or so mortises.
> I reminded him that is much better to buy the tool that is better suited=
=20
> to a commonly repeated task than one that can be adapted to do the small=
=20
> stuff too but is intended for the big stuff.

He should listen to you. No reason to kill ants with a sledge hammer. Bes=
ides, he should look at the breadth of utility that you have achieved with =
your machine and realize he is years out from testing the Domino's limits.

Not really sure the big machine is the answer for a entry door. When I bui=
lt them in the past (been years; they are too cheap and easy to buy these d=
ays) I always use 2x6 kiln dried lumber with butt joints held together by a=
1x4 tenon. This method didn't require the highest degree of accuracy.

I can't imagine lining the required amount of Dominoes needed to make a str=
ucturally sound joints.

Robert

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 7:50:46 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
=20
> Alignment is not difficult. Dry fit and mark both sides if all joints. =
=20
> Then cut exact fit mortises on one side and the elongated oversized morti=
se
> on the other.

Leon, I have no doubt YOU could do it that way. But I am thinking of the o=
dd sized doors we used to build (regular sizes were always purchased as bla=
nks) as needed. For example, I remember building double 42" wide doors for=
a restaurant.

I framed the door with kiln dried 2x6 (remember being able to easily purcha=
se kiln dried wood?) and framed out the top, bottom, and sides with that, a=
nd put a a couple of 2x6s vertically inside that frame. With 2 sheets of 1=
/4" plywood as skins, plenty of PL400, we had a helluva door. It may be my=
lack of experience with he Domino machine, but I am thinking that with all=
the tenons that would be needed it would be impossible to get all of them =
aligned well enough to assemble. At least for me!

BTW, the giant tenons never failed. By the time I got to the other end of t=
he door when assembling the door, all I had to do was tap it together. I as=
sembled the door frames with yellow glue and knocked a couple of 4d nails o=
n each side and from each side while assembling. I used the PL400 on the s=
kins as it was more flexible than the yellow glue and therefore less brittl=
e when under heavy use.

How strange... typing this I realize it has been decades since I built the =
doors. milled a jamb, set the hinges and hung the door. Just no need for t=
hose skills anymore.

Robert

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:44:59 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 19:24:37 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:29:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>>Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>ones that I have bought.
>>>
>>>5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>
>>>1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>
>>>4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>
>>>
>>>I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>
>>>The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>50% more expensive.
>>>
>>>The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>were 4~5 years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>
>>>
>> It looks like the green in my basement has appreciated more than the
>> green in my 401K. ;-) =or= :-(
>
>Other than perpetually humping Leon's leg at every opportunity, have you
>ever used any of your tools to actually make anything?

My, my. We have someone on the hook who hasn't been laid in a decade,
it seems. You should fix that problem. There's probably a knothole
in the back yard somewhere.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:29:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>ones that I have bought.
>
>5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>
>1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>
>4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>
>
>I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>
>The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>50% more expensive.
>
>The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>were 4~5 years ago.
>
>
>Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>
>
It looks like the green in my basement has appreciated more than the
green in my 401K. ;-) =or= :-(

BTW, loose hearing is a lot worse than loose women. ;-)

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:59:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 2/27/2017 12:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:26:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>>> ones that I have bought.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>>>
>>>>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>>>
>>>>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>>> 50% more expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
>>>> probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
>>>> improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
>>>> of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
>>>> make good use of your tools--I am working on it.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I have a big feeling that the price increase is mostly due to the
>>> government debt. Our dollars keep losing value.
>>
>> Not true: <http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=10Y>
>>
>> They should be getting cheaper.
>>>
>>> BUT as you point out, the tools that seem to be the most popular and or
>>> exclusive are the ones that increase in cost the most.
>>>
>>> I was a bit suprised that their drills have pretty much stayed the same
>>> over the last 4~5 years or actually gone down in price.
>>
>> I know you like their drills but I don't see anything special about
>> them.
>
>The thing that I like with the Festool drill is that it had heavy duty
>swapable attachments. And I really like the "electronic" clutch. The
>drill shuts off when the predetermined torque is reached, none of that
>rattling noise of a slipping clutch, and therefore smoother.
>
>And I do not really know if this is true with all modern drills or not
>but I used to have a 12 volt Makita drill/driver and an impact driver.
>I use the impact driver more than the drill/driver. I have not used
>that impact driver since getting the Festool drill, T15, just a touch
>higher voltage. The power is smooth and controlled.

I hear you but I'm unconvinced. I rather like the operation of an
impact driver. I find it helps keep the bit from camming out. I can
pull a buggered screw with the impact driver that there is no way to
get out with a driver/drill.

> I think you've hit the nail squarely, though. The tools that
>> there is a percieved (or real) value to the Festool brand, have been
>> getting more expensive. Others, not as much.
>>>
>>> Festool batteries are/were quite expensive. $100+ each in the 15 volt
>>> range. They are about half that now. Swingman and I went to a Festool
>>> traveling show. When you registered to view the display they were
>>> giving away caps, t-shirts, or batteries. Guess which one I took.
>>
>> The technology behind batteries has been getting cheaper.
>>
>Yes. IIRC the free battery was 5.0 amp.

Leon wrote:
> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
> ones that I have bought.
>
> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>
> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>
> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>
>
> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>
> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
> 50% more expensive.
>
> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
> were 4~5 years ago.
>
>
> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>

They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
make good use of your tools--I am working on it.

Bill

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 19:24:37 -0500, krw wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:29:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>ones that I have bought.
>>
>>5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>
>>1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>
>>4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>
>>
>>I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>
>>The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>50% more expensive.
>>
>>The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>were 4~5 years ago.
>>
>>
>>Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>
>>
> It looks like the green in my basement has appreciated more than the
> green in my 401K. ;-) =or= :-(

Other than perpetually humping Leon's leg at every opportunity, have you
ever used any of your tools to actually make anything?

--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:18:04 -0500, krw wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:44:59 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 19:24:37 -0500, krw wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:29:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>>ones that I have bought.
>>>>
>>>>5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>>5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>>
>>>>1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>>5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>>
>>>>4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>>
>>>>The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>>50% more expensive.
>>>>
>>>>The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>>were 4~5 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>>tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>>controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It looks like the green in my basement has appreciated more than the
>>> green in my 401K. ;-) =or= :-(
>>
>>Other than perpetually humping Leon's leg at every opportunity, have you
>>ever used any of your tools to actually make anything?
>
> My, my. We have someone on the hook who hasn't been laid in a decade,
> it seems. You should fix that problem. There's probably a knothole in
> the back yard somewhere.

I get more pussy than Tampex, you petulant little wankstain. Your
deflective sophomoric reply confirms my assertion that you're nothing
more than a leg-humping keyboard cowboy... all talk and no cattle.

--
Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and
thou shalt see that it is barren.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 21:35:39 -0500, krw wrote:

> A fundamental rule of the universe is that the more one talks about
> it, the less one does.

Sums up your yapping on the wreck vs actual woodworking beautifully.

> Now, tell me about your 12" dick, too.

Sorry, you'll have to feed your gay fantasies elsewhere, Skippy.

--
Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and
thou shalt see that it is barren.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 21:35:39 -0500, krw wrote:

>>I get more pussy than Tampex, you petulant little wankstain. Your
>>deflective sophomoric reply confirms my assertion that you're nothing
>>more than a leg-humping keyboard cowboy... all talk and no cattle.
>
> A fundamental rule of the universe is that the more one talks about it,
> the less one does. Now, tell us about your 12" dick, too.

Don't bother with this nut. He stole the "Trenbidia" tag from me - guess
I just won't use it anymore. I sure don't want to be associated with
some nut who's fried his brain on meth and this is the only way he can
think of to pump up his non-existent ego.

Wait for it - here comes his asinine response :).

--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 21:01:43 +0000, Trenbidia wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 21:35:39 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>>>I get more pussy than Tampex, you petulant little wankstain. Your
>>>deflective sophomoric reply confirms my assertion that you're nothing
>>>more than a leg-humping keyboard cowboy... all talk and no cattle.
>>
>> A fundamental rule of the universe is that the more one talks about it,
>> the less one does. Now, tell us about your 12" dick, too.
>
> Don't bother with this nut. He stole the "Trenbidia" tag from me -
> guess I just won't use it anymore. I sure don't want to be associated
> with some nut who's fried his brain on meth and this is the only way he
> can think of to pump up his non-existent ego.

How many dirty socks do you own, KOOK?

(I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here.)

--
What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie?

On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 21:01:43 +0000, Trenbidia wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 21:35:39 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>>>I get more pussy than Tampex, you petulant little wankstain. Your
>>>deflective sophomoric reply confirms my assertion that you're nothing
>>>more than a leg-humping keyboard cowboy... all talk and no cattle.
>>
>> A fundamental rule of the universe is that the more one talks about it,
>> the less one does. Now, tell us about your 12" dick, too.
>
> Don't bother with this nut. He stole the "Trenbidia" tag from me -
> guess I just won't use it anymore. I sure don't want to be associated
> with some nut who's fried his brain on meth and this is the only way he
> can think of to pump up his non-existent ego.
>
> Wait for it - here comes his asinine response :).

Are you on drugs... or is insane idiot your default mode?

On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 23:45:37 +0000, Colin Campbell wrote:

> On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 21:01:43 +0000, Trenbidia wrote:
>
>>

>> Wait for it - here comes his asinine response :).
>
> Are you on drugs... or is insane idiot your default mode?

I can assure the group that I did not post the quoted message.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:26:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 2/26/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>> ones that I have bought.
>>>
>>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>
>>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>
>>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>
>>>
>>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>
>>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>> 50% more expensive.
>>>
>>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>
>>
>> They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
>> probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
>> improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
>> of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
>> make good use of your tools--I am working on it.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>I have a big feeling that the price increase is mostly due to the
>government debt. Our dollars keep losing value.

Not true: <http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=10Y>

They should be getting cheaper.
>
>BUT as you point out, the tools that seem to be the most popular and or
>exclusive are the ones that increase in cost the most.
>
>I was a bit suprised that their drills have pretty much stayed the same
>over the last 4~5 years or actually gone down in price.

I know you like their drills but I don't see anything special about
them. I think you've hit the nail squarely, though. The tools that
there is a percieved (or real) value to the Festool brand, have been
getting more expensive. Others, not as much.
>
>Festool batteries are/were quite expensive. $100+ each in the 15 volt
>range. They are about half that now. Swingman and I went to a Festool
>traveling show. When you registered to view the display they were
>giving away caps, t-shirts, or batteries. Guess which one I took.

The technology behind batteries has been getting cheaper.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:02:40 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:

><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:59:33 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/27/2017 12:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:26:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/26/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> Wow, I have not watched the pricing of Festool products closely, the
>>>>>>> ones that I have bought.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino Set $694.00 Today $970.00
>>>>>>> 5/26/2007 Domino assortment w/cutters $200.00 Today $305.00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1/26/2008 Rotex 125 Sander $360.00 Today $490.00
>>>>>>> 5/31/2008 RTS 400 Orbital Sander $195.00 Today $260.00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4/19/2010 TS75 Track Saw $562.50 Today $780.00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have other Festool tools, Dust Extractor, Drill, MTF work Table.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Dust Extractor has been replaced by a model that is approximately
>>>>>>> 50% more expensive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The work Table and Drill kit are pretty much the same price that they
>>>>>>> were 4~5 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would I buy any of the above again? In a heart beat. All of these
>>>>>>> tools have increased my production significantly not to mention
>>>>>>> controlling the dust with out loosing my hearing. ;~)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They evidently know their customers. Not only that, this way they can
>>>>>> probably afford to have a "big sale", increase sales, and probably
>>>>>> improve the bottom line. The price increases only add to the exclusivity
>>>>>> of their products. I trust them to know what they are doing. I know you
>>>>>> make good use of your tools--I am working on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I have a big feeling that the price increase is mostly due to the
>>>>> government debt. Our dollars keep losing value.
>>>>
>>>> Not true: <http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=10Y>
>>>>
>>>> They should be getting cheaper.
>>>>>
>>>>> BUT as you point out, the tools that seem to be the most popular and or
>>>>> exclusive are the ones that increase in cost the most.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was a bit suprised that their drills have pretty much stayed the same
>>>>> over the last 4~5 years or actually gone down in price.
>>>>
>>>> I know you like their drills but I don't see anything special about
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> The thing that I like with the Festool drill is that it had heavy duty
>>> swapable attachments. And I really like the "electronic" clutch. The
>>> drill shuts off when the predetermined torque is reached, none of that
>>> rattling noise of a slipping clutch, and therefore smoother.
>>>
>>> And I do not really know if this is true with all modern drills or not
>>> but I used to have a 12 volt Makita drill/driver and an impact driver.
>>> I use the impact driver more than the drill/driver. I have not used
>>> that impact driver since getting the Festool drill, T15, just a touch
>>> higher voltage. The power is smooth and controlled.
>>
>> I hear you but I'm unconvinced. I rather like the operation of an
>> impact driver. I find it helps keep the bit from camming out. I can
>> pull a buggered screw with the impact driver that there is no way to
>> get out with a driver/drill.
>
>On occasion I use my Bosch impact. For the same reasons you mention,
>especially when removing. Or if I am mounting slides and predrillng with a
>Vix bit. I use the impact as a drill in that circumstance no the Festool
>drill to drive.

I actually hadn't thought about puting the Vix bits in the impact
driver. No real reason to, though. No, I wouldn't use an impact
driver to drive that sort of screw either. I have plain drivers for
that.

<...>

On 2/28/2017 7:28 AM, [email protected] wrote:

Snip
>>
>> - commonality of parts. Triggers, speed control boards, motors, etc. may be used in several different models and brands if owned by the same parent company
>>
>> The trade off certainly is the lack of quality. My boys that like their yellow tools are completely unhappy with most of the DeWalt line now as they lack the durability and reliability. Likewise the Makita tools that are from that zebra striped line. What I see most going to these days is Ridgid. Not for superior performance or ease of use, but because they are reliable and they have a great warranty. I have used the warranty twice and both times they were speedy and didn't argue with me.
>>
>> I have thought for a few years now that we are just as much in the warranty buying business as we are tool buying business.
>>
>> Robert
> But even the best warranty in the world doesn't change the fact that
> you areinconvenienced by the failure, and working with crappy tools is
> not fun. Virtually all of my "heavy use" tools are well over 15 years
> old and some well over 30) and LONG out of warranty. They will likely
> still be useable when inherited by my sons-in-law.
>


But, you can't buy new 15~30 year old tools any more. ;~)

I suspect that Festool will be in that category. I showed a neighbor my
Domino a couple of weeks ago. He is 3~4 years into woodworking and on
his own has discovered Festool, he owns 3~4 Festools. He commented on
how the Domino looked brand new after cutting ten's of thousands of
mortises over the past 10 years.


And speaking of the Domino.. The neighbor pointed out his thoughts on
which Domino to buy, the original or the XL. He thinks the XL because
he might want to build a door one day adding that you can buy an adapter
to use smaller bits with it.

I pointed out that this is true but do you want to use an oversized tool
when 98% of the time the smaller much lighter weight version probably
has more advantages. I can tell you from experience that even the small
Domino gets heavy after a hundred or so mortises.
I reminded him that is much better to buy the tool that is better suited
to a commonly repeated task than one that can be adapted to do the small
stuff too but is intended for the big stuff.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:37:51 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The exchange rates have an impact too...

But I posted the exchange rates. The EUR/$ has been going the other
way for most of the last decade.