SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't ask -
and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the blue
spots.
Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
Corvette in front of the exit door.
A CORVETTE??????
>A fellow comes into the woodworking store on Thursday afternoon, nice
>looking guy, in a wheelchair, wearing a Harley Davidson tank top. He's got
>longish hair, and looks like he knows his way around the wheelchair from
>long experience. Buys $20 worth of hardware thingies for his project, and
>rolls out to the lot, where he proceeds to load the chair into a case on
>the back of his three-wheel Harley with hand controls, and ease on down the
>road, big grin catching bugs. What handicap?
>
>Corvettes are for wimps.
>
>Patriarch,
>hoping George's wife feels better soon...
================
Yea... I have to admit that I stopped riding Motorcycles a long time
ago... (15 or so years) and I "wimped out" and now "play" with
Corvettes... (64,72,76,79, & 95 and looking for a used Z06 to add to
the fleet)...
BUT I do have serious claudication in my left leg and have and use a
Handicap sticker...on level ground I can walk pain free for a couple
of hundred yards max...up hill walking is much less..then the muscles
start cramping because of lack of oxygen...and I stop..
wait...hurt...wait...feel the blood feeding my muscles then start
walking agian... thank the good lord I have no problems working a
clutch
BUT I really can not remember ever driving a Corvette to Home Depot
or Lowes etc....2 reasons...some ass hole may breath on the car...and
us "anal" Vette owners could not have that...I can't haul many 1x6's
in any of the Corvettes... even with the top down...
BUT the original posters comments are true...I preceive that many
people see me park in a handicaped space hop out of my truck and walk
into a store and think this guy is NOT handicaped....!
Bob Griffiths
Swingman wrote:
> "George" wrote in message
>
> > Still, a red corvette looks strange among all those white cadillacs....
>
> Depends upon where you live. A casual observer around here would suspect
> that the HC stickers either come with the title, or with your/your spouses
> law degree.
>
> Seems most every Mercedes/BMW/Lexus in the local shopping center sports one
> ... often driven by the trophy wife, complete with crotch hair hugging
> spandex exercise shorts (and sometimes the Master of the Universe himself,
> very possibly in the _same_ shorts), who parks and _runs_ in to get
> Margarita mix.
>
> What a great country ... where you can be illiterate and still drive such
> nice automobiles (judging by the number of these same luxury egomobiles,
> routinely parked in clearly marked "no parking" areas).
>
> ... the practice, like many of the other scofflaw attitudes in this culture,
> is endemic.
>
but sometimes, you gotta check it out. Some time ago, a young (by my
standards) woman with a superb butt rammed her
Expedition/Excursion/Excuse Me into a handicapped space, leapt down
with touching the sill, and trotted into Winn Dixie. I was going in at
the time, so I knew she occupied that space at least for the 30 minutes
I was inside.
I told my wife about it. She knew, or knew of, the woman. Turns out,
she really was handicapped, unable to read correctly, because her coke
habit kept her awake nights. The Winn Dixie store and the young lady
are both gone now, for the same reason: mismanagement.
Leon wrote:
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >>
> > You're the one proclaiming that a handicapped person shouldn't drive a
> > Corvette.
>
> No, I have simply indicated that if you have no problem getting in and out
> of a Corvette you probably won't have trouble walking an extra 150' to get
> into the store like the rest of us. The walk inside the Borg that the OP
> used as an example is normally going to make the parking lot walk seem
> pretty short by comparison. The fact is, probably 90% of those people
> driving vehicles that require more effort to get in and out of would suffer
> no ill effects by walking a bit farther. I do admit that the there are
> exceptions but I seldom witness people parking in handicap spots moving any
> slower than I do.
>
There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --
> > Odinn
> > RCOS #7
> > SENS(less)
> > SLUG
> >
> > "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
> > worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
> >
> > Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
> > '03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
> > '97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
> > Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
> > Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
> >
> > rot13 [email protected] to reply
George wrote:
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
> > flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
> > of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
> > and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.
> > >
>
> The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.
You lost me there. I know too many people who have COPD, bad hearts,
and a couple with emphysema to think the difficulties disappear. In the
case of COPD, the difficulty breathing MAY come and go, but that is not
at the behest of the person suffering from the problem.
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> ... As I
> mentioned in my examples, in one case when we added on, we were required to
> provide 4 spaces -- in the entire history of the congregation we had never
> had more than two people at a time who needed such accomodation, and for
> long periods of time, we had no one who needed them -- for a small
> congregation the expense of adding parking lot and then consuming 50% of
> the expansion for spaces that would not be used was a burden on the members
> that didn't seem right.
I can top that story. It is at least conceivable that more handicapped
persons might join the congregation (at which point I'm confident the
congregation would have been happy to expand the accomodations anyhow)
but I suppose also some handicapped persons might be inspired to join
the congregation becuase of the surplus accomodation. Not nearly
as likely in the story below.
A few years back I stopped in at a local bar/package store
(carryout) I had not visited in a number of years. The local topography
was such that the parking lot rose gently up to main entrance so that
it and the whole interior floor were basicly at grade. The building
was (probably since first built) handicapped accessible without any
special consideration. I bet the guys delivering kegs and beer cases
appreciated that too.
Anyhow, the first thing I noticed was that a lot of remodeling had
been done. Then I noticed a stage with a miror behind it had been
added to the side. E.g. the owners had converted the bar to a
strip club. Then I noticed that there were two railings between
the stage and the audience, the outer railing was about 30 inches
in front of the inner railing and inclined at a slope of about
12/1. Yes, that's right. The bar was required to build-in wheelchair
access to the stage so that there would not be any architectural
barrier for wheelchair-bound strippers they might hire.
In this case "build it and they will come" didn't seem likely.
> >
>
> Both good will and also simply because it's the right thing to do out of
> caring for those in our midst.
>
>
No kidding. I'd think so too.
But I've read that among the worse offenders prior to laws requiring
accomadations were some high class restaraunts. Not did many not
provide assistance simply out of good will, but many actually refused
service to persons in wheelchairs and even after many were notrious for
'losing' reservations, if someone in the party that made them showed
up in a wheelchair.
Maybe those stories were true, maybe not, I never checked and since
then I've learned to eb lot more skpetical of such stories.
Oh -- I have no trouble at all believing yours however.
--
FF
"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7/3/2005 3:43 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
>>
> You've obviously never gotten into our out of a recent Corvette, they're
> easier to get in and out of than my Stratus.
Well you obviously do not have bad knees. Simply getting up from a low
sitting position is more difficult than standing up from a higher sitting
position. I have sat in plenty of Corvettes, I retired from the automotive
industry selling GM vehicles, parts and service. They are not as easy to
get out of as a full sized car or truck.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
> Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
> from a regular parking spot. ;~)
Yes, but . . . . . That point is just plain flat WRONG. Getting in and
out of a car is far different that walking when you have a heart problem of
COPD and the humidity is 99%. My MIL was agile enough to get in and out of
any car, but her lung cancer would not allow her to walk more than 50 feet.
No, the OP was just a narrow minded individual uneducated in the problems
others have in their daily lives. I hope he remains healthy.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
>> Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
>> from a regular parking spot. ;~)
>
> Yes, but . . . . . That point is just plain flat WRONG. Getting in and
> out of a car is far different that walking when you have a heart problem
> of COPD and the humidity is 99%. My MIL was agile enough to get in and
> out of any car, but her lung cancer would not allow her to walk more than
> 50 feet. No, the OP was just a narrow minded individual uneducated in the
> problems others have in their daily lives. I hope he remains healthy.
I understand your point but some of the vehicles parked in those spots just
seem out of place.
"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
> Seem out of place for what? Is my motorcycle out of place for being in a
> handicapped spot? A Hummer? A Lotus Elan? Those of us who are
> handicapped in whatever capacity should still be allowed to own the
> vehicles we wish to own.
>
Out of place for the perceived activity required to get in and out of such a
vehicle. I am handicapped also but would not expect a special parking
permit because half my thumb is missing. Seem to me that many of the
vehicles require more effort to get into and out of than walking a little
farther like the rest of us.
And, I don't think you should be limited to driving any particular vehicle
but if you have the flexibility to get into and out of some of the tougher
vehicles the walk up to the store should not bother you either in most
cases.
IMHO the spaces should be reserved to those that really do have a hard time
getting around.
George wrote:
>
> SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't ask -
> and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the blue
> spots.
>
> Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
> they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
> Corvette in front of the exit door.
>
> A CORVETTE??????
Accident
Insurance Settlement Check
Corvette
(now does it make sense?)
charlie b
Upscale wrote:
>
> "Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
> > handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
> > just because she has the plates.
>
> That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
> are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
> travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when I'm
> driving a vehicle with hand controls.
It's not different in concept, only (perhaps) in implementation. Every
state in the US of which I am aware does essentially the same thing--a
handicapped individual has to apply and get an affidavit signed by
licensed physician stating the handicap and whether it is permanent. If
permanent, then a permanent handicap license plate will be issued for a
vehicle of choice, but it is still only valid to be used in the handicap
zone when the individual for which it was issued is either a passenger
or the driver, even though the tag is affixed to the vehicle. Abuse by
others of the privilege is punishable by pretty hefty fines. Most, if
not all, states will also issue at the same time one or more non-fixed
permits which may be placed in the vehicle so the same individual may be
a passenger or operator of another vehicle if necessary. Again, same
rule applies--others using the permit are not legal and subject to
fine/towing. Again, most if not all states will honor other states
temporary permits on out of state vehicles and many will for in-state
(MIL is visiting from Left Coast, for example, she can bring her hanging
permit w/ her rather than go get a local temporary)...
George wrote:
>
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > George wrote:
> > > "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
> > > > flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
> > > > of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
> > > > and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.
> >
> > You lost me there. I know too many people who have COPD, bad hearts,
> > and a couple with emphysema to think the difficulties disappear. In the
> > case of COPD, the difficulty breathing MAY come and go, but that is not
> > at the behest of the person suffering from the problem.
> >
>
> The bottle they push/carry around and around the store seems to be less of a
> burden in than outside.
That may also be true...climatic conditions can have a major effect.
That said, there are degrees of handicap and some may well use a limited
amount to the fullest extent possible--
Prometheus wrote:
>
...
> I think the way she got it is by being the legal guardian- my sister
> cannot speak or move any part of her body except her right arm, couple
> that with an estimated mental capacity of a two-year old child, and
> it's pretty clear that someone else needs to fill out the form and
> sign it. Not sure if it's *legal* or not, I just know it isn't right.
...
Absolutely nothing wrong to procure it in her name...only thing wrong
would be to use it for other purposes...
"Clint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:xgFxe.89639$HI.3960@edtnps84...
> I'm trying to see what your point is. Handicapped (or whatever the PC
term
> is) shouldn't have Corvettes? Seriously, I don't understand, besides a
bit
> of venting about all the handicap spots being filled.
>
> Up here in Canada, the number of handicap stickers in use has tripled in
the
> last 10 years or so. Doctors seem willing to sign for almost anyone. As
an
> example, an acquaintance of mine had arthroscopic knee surgery, and ended
up
> getting a sticker for 6 months. Couldn't understand that one, myself.
But
> he was quite proud of himself.
I've got the permanent tags on my car from back when I was taking
care of a disabled brother. About the only time I've parked in a marked
space since he died four years ago was when I took my sister -who
also hobbles- on a trip last summer. I've not been able to convince
the license bureau that I don't need them any more.
Kind of got a few laughs when they came looking for the car's owner
to move it out of the LZ during a training exercise.
> "George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't
> > ask -
> > and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the
> > blue
> > spots.
> >
> > Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
> > they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including
a
> > Corvette in front of the exit door.
> >
> >
> > A CORVETTE??????
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George wrote:
> >
> > SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't
ask -
> > and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the
blue
> > spots.
> >
> > Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
> > they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including
a
> > Corvette in front of the exit door.
> >
> > A CORVETTE??????
>
> Accident
> Insurance Settlement Check
> Corvette
> (now does it make sense?)
>
But why contort in and out of a corvette? Certainly not comfortable.
Imagine it's as some said, not the type of disability you'd even recognize.
Still, a red corvette looks strange among all those white cadillacs....
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
> > Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
> > from a regular parking spot. ;~)
>
> Yes, but . . . . . That point is just plain flat WRONG. Getting in and
> out of a car is far different that walking when you have a heart problem
of
> COPD and the humidity is 99%. My MIL was agile enough to get in and out
of
> any car, but her lung cancer would not allow her to walk more than 50
feet.
> No, the OP was just a narrow minded individual uneducated in the problems
> others have in their daily lives. I hope he remains healthy.
>
>
Full of it. I have seen and cared for more people with problems than (I
hope) you'll ever see.
I'm a medic.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
> flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
> of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
> and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.
> >
The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> George wrote:
> > "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
> > > flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
> > > of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
> > > and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.
> > > >
> >
> > The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.
>
> You lost me there. I know too many people who have COPD, bad hearts,
> and a couple with emphysema to think the difficulties disappear. In the
> case of COPD, the difficulty breathing MAY come and go, but that is not
> at the behest of the person suffering from the problem.
>
The bottle they push/carry around and around the store seems to be less of a
burden in than outside.
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:49:51 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
>>> handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
>>> just because she has the plates.
>>
>> That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
>> are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
>> travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when
>> I'm
>> driving a vehicle with hand controls.
>
>
>Here it CT, you get the permit as an individual. Only then can you apply for
>plates for the car. Both our cars are in both our names so I'm not going
>to do that but I'm not going to do that even if I can. . The placard is
>signed by my wife so if I was to be challenged because I used it, there
>would be a hefty fine. I can walk pretty far to avoid spending $200+
I think the way she got it is by being the legal guardian- my sister
cannot speak or move any part of her body except her right arm, couple
that with an estimated mental capacity of a two-year old child, and
it's pretty clear that someone else needs to fill out the form and
sign it. Not sure if it's *legal* or not, I just know it isn't right.
>There are strict rules on how to qualify, but I'm sure there are abuses if a
>doctor will sign off. There are temporary tags for injuries that will heal
>such as the broken leg. .
On 7/3/2005 9:34 PM Tim Douglass mumbled something about the following:
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:14:28 -0400, Odinn <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I do have bad knees, and getting in and out of my Stratus is hell on
>>them. I didn't say there were as easy as a truck, but they are easier
>>to get in and out of than my Stratus. Altho, my motorcycle is even
>>easier to get off of than it is to get out of either the car or truck, I
>>just fall off.
>
>
> I've done it that way - it's part of the reason I now have bad knees.
> Of course I was traveling about 65 mph when I fell off.
I destroyed on knee hyperextending it playing baseball that never healed
properly, the other I busted pretty bad hitting it with a maul while
splitting firewood.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I told my wife about it. She knew, or knew of, the woman. Turns out,
> she really was handicapped, unable to read correctly, because her coke
> habit kept her awake nights. The Winn Dixie store and the young lady
> are both gone now, for the same reason: mismanagement.
That sounds a little off Charlie. Don't know about down in the US, but up
here in Canada, disability parking permits are for the *mobility* impaired
or for those who might have difficulty walking limited distances because of
certain physical conditions. There's a number of disabilities that do not
entitle one to a parking permit. vision being one of them. Maybe it's
different in the US? I would also suggest that having trouble reading (such
as street signs or warning signs) would also prevent someone from being
licensed to drive.
All of that aside, up here in Canada too, the medical profession is almost
universally too quick to sign the forms allowing someone to obtain a permit.
I've seen it happen repeatedly and I lobby against it at every opportunity.
The worst that happens is when one doctor refuses to complete a parking
permit form for a patient, that person simply goes to another doctor. The
original doctor often loses that patient as a client as well.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
> Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
from
> a regular parking spot. ;~)
That's as about a short-sighted statement I've seen in a long while. I could
climb into a corvette and get out, but I'm not capable of walking 5 feet
without grab bars to help me keep my balance. They're called "Arms and
Hands" Leon and if you had any idea what you were talking about you'd
realize that they're used for holding onto things when moving around.
You might believe your smiley tempers your statement, but it doesn't.
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> under our requirements for such accomodations, I have found that the "big
> hammer solves all problems" approach of government fist is not always the
> best approach to solving problems.
A response to this. The lack of government fist has allowed many (most)
businesses to dismiss the idea of spending money for disabled access. It
might seem like it's good business to enable access for the disabled, but
the reality of the situation is a direct contradiction to this idea.
In Ontario, one recent former premier (Mike Harris(may he rot in Hell))
enabled an ODA (Ontarians with Disabilities Act) that had absolutely no
teeth when it came to mandating accessibility for the disabled. His belief
was that business would do the right thing if their own accord. (What a pile
of crap!) The current premier (Dalton McGuinty) is mulling over an ODA with
substantially more clout, but it's an ongoing process. That's provincially.
There is nothing on the horizon that I've ever heard for a National
disabilities act for Canada.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[snip]
>Which bets the question, what is a mobility impaired person doing shopping
>in a huge Borg building. Perhaps they should be allowed to drive through.
>I never could understand handicap parking in front of Large stores. The
>walk from the parking lot to the store is no where near the walk ahead of
>them once they get inside.
Think about the issue a little more. Suppose my mobility impaired spouse
needed a plumbing repair item or I wanted her opinion on a lighting fixture
or paint color. Are you suggesting HD shouldn't let her in the store?!?
Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that need
them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered wheelchair.
HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and also
very good at hiring staff with special needs as well. In fact, I think the
corporation has a special program and an arrangement with Goodwill to either
use or provide training and experience for persons (such as with Downs
Syndrome) who might otherwise be unemployable.
Regards --
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 03:28:43 -0400, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> construction project at one church where the number of required
>handicapped
>> spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now being
>> involved in another construction project at a different congregation
>where,
>
>I know for a fact that many churches in Toronto have made significant
>changes to enable access for the disabled. I consider churches to be private
>organizations,
Unfortunately, in the US, governments don't, thus they are treated as
businesses and must set things up according to the federal formula of x
spaces per y occupants of the building in question. As a church, we would
not want to have any of our members with disabilities unable to access the
church, thus regardless of the number of members or guests with mobility
difficulties, we would make provision to accomodate those people. As I
mentioned in my examples, in one case when we added on, we were required to
provide 4 spaces -- in the entire history of the congregation we had never
had more than two people at a time who needed such accomodation, and for
long periods of time, we had no one who needed them -- for a small
congregation the expense of adding parking lot and then consuming 50% of
the expansion for spaces that would not be used was a burden on the members
that didn't seem right. At our current congregation, we have a large
number of elderly people (for some reason Arizona seems to attract that
type of person :-) ). Strictly following the letter of the law would
leave us short by several spaces the number of accomodations we need to
provide to accomodate all of our members.
> not part of the commercial apathy that pervades Toronto's
>business community when it comes to disabled access. It would make sense
>too. As far as I'm concerned, a church survives on the good will of it's
>congregation, many of them who might be disabled or elderly. Access makes
>sense, something completely lost on Toronto's business community.
>
Both good will and also simply because it's the right thing to do out of
caring for those in our midst.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> I told my wife about it. She knew, or knew of, the woman. Turns out,
>> she really was handicapped, unable to read correctly, because her coke
>> habit kept her awake nights. The Winn Dixie store and the young lady
>> are both gone now, for the same reason: mismanagement.
>
> That sounds a little off Charlie. Don't know about down in the US, but up
> here in Canada, disability parking permits are for the *mobility* impaired
> or for those who might have difficulty walking limited distances because
> of
> certain physical conditions.
LOL. Which bets the question, what is a mobility impaired person doing
shopping in a huge Borg building. Perhaps they should be allowed to drive
through. I never could understand handicap parking in front of Large
stores. The walk from the parking lot to the store is no where near the
walk ahead of them once they get inside.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> That's as about a short-sighted statement I've seen in a long while. I
> could
> climb into a corvette and get out, but I'm not capable of walking 5 feet
> without grab bars to help me keep my balance.
I am not trying to ruffle any fetahers here as I do indeed believe that many
situations are legit. But when the guy parks in the handicap area and walks
briskly into the store and or walks his empty cart to the cart parking spot
after emptying it I cannot see the point of him parking in the handicap
zone. I am not quite sure I could guess what the disadvantage to parking
like others would place on him. Living in Houston I see this just about
every time I go to the Borg.
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:26:54 -0400, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"World Traveler" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:7Z_xe.15717
>>>
>>> Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that
>>need
>>> them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered
>>wheelchair.
>>> HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and
>>also
>>> very good at hiring staff with special needs as well.
>>
>>Agreed. One of the HD stores I go to has at least two wheelchairs
>>available for those that need it and at least one person working there who
>>uses a wheelchair. He works in the woodworking tools section. The
>>washrooms there are wheelchair accessible too. This is Canada I'm talking
>>about so there aren't any ADA rules in effect to guarantee this stuff, at
>>least not yet.
>
> Upscale,
>
> Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
> places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act?
> I ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
> accomodations just as good business. Having been involved in a
> construction project at one church where the number of required
> handicapped spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now
> being involved in another construction project at a different congregation
> where, if we follow the rules for the building capacity, we will be
> ridiculously under our requirements for such accomodations, I have found
> that the "big hammer solves all problems" approach of government fiat is
> not always the best approach to solving problems.
>
>
>
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+
>
> If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
>
>
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+
First, it's not about the walk to the HD inside and out, it's about the
weather. They put handicapped people closer to the door as some handicaps
take longer to get in and out of vehicles. The same amount of time it
takes someone from the farthest spot to get to the door, the handicapped
person may just be getting to the door.
My father worked with a (Mostly) quadraplegic person at IBM (say Hyatt
accident) and they verified that the place they were having a meeting was
handicapped accessible (before A.D.A), the place said yes. When they got
there they found out you needed a room key to swipe open ALL the restrooms.
One of the managers called the hotel management and said they left a
deposit outside the door. This whole get together was supposed to be about
making computers more accessible (the Hyatt really brought to their
attention).
On 7/2/2005 8:07 PM Patriarch mumbled something about the following:
> "George" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't
>>ask - and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can
>>use the blue spots.
>>
>>Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>>they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker,
>>including a Corvette in front of the exit door.
>>
>>
>>A CORVETTE??????
>>
>
>
> A fellow comes into the woodworking store on Thursday afternoon, nice
> looking guy, in a wheelchair, wearing a Harley Davidson tank top. He's got
> longish hair, and looks like he knows his way around the wheelchair from
> long experience. Buys $20 worth of hardware thingies for his project, and
> rolls out to the lot, where he proceeds to load the chair into a case on
> the back of his three-wheel Harley with hand controls, and ease on down the
> road, big grin catching bugs. What handicap?
>
> Corvettes are for wimps.
>
> Patriarch,
> hoping George's wife feels better soon...
There's several of us who ride motorcycles with handicapped plates. Are
we handicapped, depends on what you consider a handicap. I'm unable to
stand for long periods of time, or walk long distances (bad back, broken
in 1986, and bad knees), but I can ride a bike just fine.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
> places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act?
I
> ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
> accomodations just as good business.
You're going to regret asking me this because you'll get an earful. You
might want to take this conversation offline.
The answer to your question is a categorical "YES". I live in Toronto,
Canada's largest city. I'm willing to bet that at least 75% of restaurants
and buildings in Toronto are not accessible to wheelchairs and at least 95%
of them don't have wheelchair accessible washrooms. Smaller businesses do
not see the value in spending the money for ramps or elevators for Toronto's
disabled population. For the past twenty years or so, new office buildings
are wheelchair accessible, but accessible washrooms in these buildings are
few and far between. I can give specific examples of MANY >40 story office
buildings in Toronto without accessible washroom access anywhere except
maybe one on the first floor. What about disabled clients? They don't exist
for some reason? In many cases, historical heritage has allowed government
and public offices to escape the mandate that all public buildings be made
accessible.
Our subway system is only 1/3 accessible with elevators after two five year
plans and one ten year plan to make them all accessible. While the Toronto
Transit system has been implementing low floor and accessible buses as fast
as they can afford them, there's a number of areas served solely by
streetcars that certainly are not accessible and no surface route buses
running.
Wheeltrans, the specialized transit system for the disabled is hopelessly
overbooked with wait times often approaching two hours and ride times often
running in excess of three hours. Imagine going to a job everyday where you
had to ride three hours to work and three hours to get home after waiting
several hours for pick up in both directions? I've actually had to quit a
job because the waiting and travelling time took longer than the hours I was
working.
I live 100 yards from Yonge and Bloor a location many consider the centre of
Toronto. I know this city. Bigger, upscale restaurants are starting to
change their premises to accommodate the disabled, but the fast food
restaurants are not. McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, Kentucky Fried
Chicken, Taco Bell, ad infinitum, I have never seen one wheelchair
accessible washroom in ANY of these chains. At best, they're located in a
shopping mall and leave that kind of thing to the mall designers. Imagine
one or two wheelchair accessible washrooms in a 100+ store shopping mall
capable of handling 1,000's of people concurrently? What percentage of
people are disabled? 10%-15%?
When I go to movie theatres, although most do have accessible washrooms on
the premises, I often get in verbal arguments with people who use them
instead of walking the extra 50' to the regular public in movie washrooms.
Need to hear more? Email me privately.
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
> handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
> just because she has the plates.
That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when I'm
driving a vehicle with hand controls.
On 7/3/2005 4:59 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On 7/3/2005 3:43 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
>>
>>You've obviously never gotten into our out of a recent Corvette, they're
>>easier to get in and out of than my Stratus.
>
>
> Well you obviously do not have bad knees. Simply getting up from a low
> sitting position is more difficult than standing up from a higher sitting
> position. I have sat in plenty of Corvettes, I retired from the automotive
> industry selling GM vehicles, parts and service. They are not as easy to
> get out of as a full sized car or truck.
>
>
I do have bad knees, and getting in and out of my Stratus is hell on
them. I didn't say there were as easy as a truck, but they are easier
to get in and out of than my Stratus. Altho, my motorcycle is even
easier to get off of than it is to get out of either the car or truck, I
just fall off.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
On 7/3/2005 5:08 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>You're the one proclaiming that a handicapped person shouldn't drive a
>>Corvette.
>
>
> No, I have simply indicated that if you have no problem getting in and out
> of a Corvette you probably won't have trouble walking an extra 150' to get
> into the store like the rest of us. The walk inside the Borg that the OP
> used as an example is normally going to make the parking lot walk seem
> pretty short by comparison. The fact is, probably 90% of those people
> driving vehicles that require more effort to get in and out of would suffer
> no ill effects by walking a bit farther. I do admit that the there are
> exceptions but I seldom witness people parking in handicap spots moving any
> slower than I do.
So, only people with physical walking problems are handicapped? Damn,
you are dense.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Leon, I hope you never have the problems some do.
And so do I, and in no way mean any disrespect to any one with a
disability.
My wife (most days) can
> walk the inside of the larger stores, but she has to do it pushing a cart.
> The walk from a parking spot to the door is often a problem if there are
> no carts available or she does not have my arm to hold on to. In nice
> weather, I'll park at some distance so we can get the exercise, but when
> it is 13 degrees or 95 degrees, the placard comes out.
> I know abuses occur. I know a fellow that uses his grandmother's car for
> Christmas shopping.
These are the people that I think George and I am picturing.
On 7/4/2005 2:18 PM mac davis mumbled something about the following:
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:02:57 -0400, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't ask -
>>and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the blue
>>spots.
>>
>>Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>>they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
>>Corvette in front of the exit door.
>>
>>
>>A CORVETTE??????
>>
>
> obviously a mental handicap..
> probably a poor vertically challenged middle aged guy being treated for over
> compensation..
>
You sound like a mental handicap to think that a person with a handicap
can't/shouldn't own a Corvette.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't
> ask - and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can
> use the blue spots.
>
> Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
> they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker,
> including a Corvette in front of the exit door.
>
>
> A CORVETTE??????
>
A fellow comes into the woodworking store on Thursday afternoon, nice
looking guy, in a wheelchair, wearing a Harley Davidson tank top. He's got
longish hair, and looks like he knows his way around the wheelchair from
long experience. Buys $20 worth of hardware thingies for his project, and
rolls out to the lot, where he proceeds to load the chair into a case on
the back of his three-wheel Harley with hand controls, and ease on down the
road, big grin catching bugs. What handicap?
Corvettes are for wimps.
Patriarch,
hoping George's wife feels better soon...
"Clint" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:xgFxe.89639$HI.3960@edtnps84:
> I'm trying to see what your point is. Handicapped (or whatever the PC
> term is) shouldn't have Corvettes? Seriously, I don't understand,
> besides a bit of venting about all the handicap spots being filled.
>
> Up here in Canada, the number of handicap stickers in use has tripled
> in the last 10 years or so. Doctors seem willing to sign for almost
> anyone. As an example, an acquaintance of mine had arthroscopic knee
> surgery, and ended up getting a sticker for 6 months. Couldn't
> understand that one, myself. But he was quite proud of himself.
>____________________________________________________________________
Just because the handicap is not blatently apparent does not mean that it
is not truly a handicap!
It has always been my belief that someone who uses a "handicapped spot" and
isn't qualified by reason of not being truly hadicapped has the worst
handicap of all_____"lack of compassion for their fellow man"!
"John Keeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> also hobbles- on a trip last summer. I've not been able to convince
> the license bureau that I don't need them any more.
My mistake. I misread your message.
On 7/3/2005 3:45 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I think you are as stupid as you sound.
>>
>
>
>
> The feeling is mutual.
>
>
You're the one proclaiming that a handicapped person shouldn't drive a
Corvette.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
On 7/3/2005 3:43 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
> "Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The c4 Corvettes (84-96 models) are I admit a royal pain sometimes
>>( where you can not open the door all the way) to get out of since you
>>sit below the bottom odge of the door sill...BUT any of the other
>>generagions are just as easy to get in and out of as a Cadilac ... In
>>fact I drove my 72 or 64 Convertible all the time before I had back
>>surgury because I could "DROP" into them...much less painful then
>>gettin in my truck...
>
>
>
> The Corvette's proximity to the ground is much lower than a Cadillac. If
> you have weak or bad knees, you will have a harder time getting in and out
> of a Corvette than a Cadillac.
>
>
You've obviously never gotten into our out of a recent Corvette, they're
easier to get in and out of than my Stratus.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
On 7/3/2005 3:40 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>Seem out of place for what? Is my motorcycle out of place for being in a
>>handicapped spot? A Hummer? A Lotus Elan? Those of us who are
>>handicapped in whatever capacity should still be allowed to own the
>>vehicles we wish to own.
>>
>
>
> Out of place for the perceived activity required to get in and out of such a
> vehicle. I am handicapped also but would not expect a special parking
> permit because half my thumb is missing. Seem to me that many of the
> vehicles require more effort to get into and out of than walking a little
> farther like the rest of us.
> And, I don't think you should be limited to driving any particular vehicle
> but if you have the flexibility to get into and out of some of the tougher
> vehicles the walk up to the store should not bother you either in most
> cases.
> IMHO the spaces should be reserved to those that really do have a hard time
> getting around.
>
>
So, a person who has trouble breathing and can't walk very far should be
limited to a vehicle that isn't a motorcycle or a corvette? You are dense.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
"World Traveler" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:7Z_xe.15717
>
> Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that
need
> them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered
wheelchair.
> HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and
also
> very good at hiring staff with special needs as well.
Agreed. One of the HD stores I go to has at least two wheelchairs available
for those that need it and at least one person working there who uses a
wheelchair. He works in the woodworking tools section. The washrooms there
are wheelchair accessible too. This is Canada I'm talking about so there
aren't any ADA rules in effect to guarantee this stuff, at least not yet.
Only one time did I have a disability related problem at this store. Went
into the washroom to use the single accessible stall (there were 2 other
regular sized ones) and there was a HD employee already in there. Knew he
was an HD employee because I could see the edge of his orange HD smock
hanging down from the hook. Waited and waited 20 minutes for this guy to
come out. Knew he was reading he paper because I could hear him turning the
pages. I eventually asked another HD employee to find a manager for me. Just
as the manager came by, the HD employee came strolling out of the stall. I'd
have spent the time to really give him shit, but I had other priorities to
deal with. Next time, my limit is ten minutes max before I start hammering
on the door to the stall. Either that or invade the stall in the women's
washroom.
On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:26:54 -0400, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"World Traveler" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:7Z_xe.15717
>>
>> Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that
>need
>> them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered
>wheelchair.
>> HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and
>also
>> very good at hiring staff with special needs as well.
>
>Agreed. One of the HD stores I go to has at least two wheelchairs available
>for those that need it and at least one person working there who uses a
>wheelchair. He works in the woodworking tools section. The washrooms there
>are wheelchair accessible too. This is Canada I'm talking about so there
>aren't any ADA rules in effect to guarantee this stuff, at least not yet.
Upscale,
Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act? I
ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
accomodations just as good business. Having been involved in a
construction project at one church where the number of required handicapped
spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now being
involved in another construction project at a different congregation where,
if we follow the rules for the building capacity, we will be ridiculously
under our requirements for such accomodations, I have found that the "big
hammer solves all problems" approach of government fiat is not always the
best approach to solving problems.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Clint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:xgFxe.89639$HI.3960@edtnps84...
> I'm trying to see what your point is. Handicapped (or whatever the PC
> term is) shouldn't have Corvettes? Seriously, I don't understand, besides
> a bit of venting about all the handicap spots being filled.
Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking from
a regular parking spot. ;~)
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> LOL. Which bets the question, what is a mobility impaired person doing
> shopping in a huge Borg building. Perhaps they should be allowed to drive
> through. I never could understand handicap parking in front of Large
> stores. The walk from the parking lot to the store is no where near the
> walk ahead of them once they get inside.
Leon, I hope you never have the problems some do. My wife (most days) can
walk the inside of the larger stores, but she has to do it pushing a cart.
The walk from a parking spot to the door is often a problem if there are no
carts available or she does not have my arm to hold on to. In nice weather,
I'll park at some distance so we can get the exercise, but when it is 13
degrees or 95 degrees, the placard comes out.
I know abuses occur. I know a fellow that uses his grandmother's car for
Christmas shopping. I'm sure some people don't need to use those spots all
the time. I'm sure some doctors are too quick to sign off. I doubt than
any of us here (even if you are a doctor) can make an honest evaluation just
watching a person walk to the store.
Oh, did I mention that some stores have electric scooters for the
handicapped?
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 14:26:16 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
>Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking from
>a regular parking spot. ;~)
>
=====================
Ok... I do have a Handicap (walking is limited to a few hundred yards
max ) But I do own and drive 5 Corvettes and to be truthful I really
can not understand why people think they as so hard to get in and out
of...
The c4 Corvettes (84-96 models) are I admit a royal pain sometimes
( where you can not open the door all the way) to get out of since you
sit below the bottom odge of the door sill...BUT any of the other
generagions are just as easy to get in and out of as a Cadilac ... In
fact I drove my 72 or 64 Convertible all the time before I had back
surgury because I could "DROP" into them...much less painful then
gettin in my truck...
Bob Griffiths
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:33:17 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
>>> Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
>>> from a regular parking spot. ;~)
>>
>> Yes, but . . . . . That point is just plain flat WRONG. Getting in and
>> out of a car is far different that walking when you have a heart problem
>> of COPD and the humidity is 99%. My MIL was agile enough to get in and
>> out of any car, but her lung cancer would not allow her to walk more than
>> 50 feet. No, the OP was just a narrow minded individual uneducated in the
>> problems others have in their daily lives. I hope he remains healthy.
>
>I understand your point but some of the vehicles parked in those spots just
>seem out of place.
>
A lot of them are out of place. I've got a sister who is really and
truly handicapped, so my parents have the plates on all their
vehicles. She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
just because she has the plates.
Had a few good yelling matches with her over that one, but some people
just will never learn.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>> they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including
>> a
>> Corvette in front of the exit door.
>>
>>
>> A CORVETTE??????
>
> Why not? Any logical reason a handicapped person cannot drive a sports
> car? Luxury car? Truck? Having a heart or lung disease does not mean
> you have to drive a ten year old sedan.
LOL. When was the last YOU crawled into of out of a Corvette? I think if
you can do that you may not be as handicapped as your tag indicates.
<[email protected]> wrote
>
> Anyhow, the first thing I noticed was that a lot of remodeling had
> been done. Then I noticed a stage with a miror behind it had been
> added to the side. E.g. the owners had converted the bar to a
> strip club. Then I noticed that there were two railings between
> the stage and the audience, the outer railing was about 30 inches
> in front of the inner railing and inclined at a slope of about
> 12/1. Yes, that's right. The bar was required to build-in wheelchair
> access to the stage so that there would not be any architectural
> barrier for wheelchair-bound strippers they might hire.
>
I have heard of a number of situations where much expense was involved in
building ramps for folks who don't exist. I wonder if the government
agencies could produce even one instance of a wheel chair bound stripper.
And even if they could, would she want to work like that?
And even if she did, who would hire her?
What next? Water ramps for goldfish?
I hate to admit it, but I have Hepatitis C and cirrhosis. Unable to work due
to so many symptoms. Anyone looking at me might think I am a healthy,
able-bodied semen (as a friend was once listed in a employment line). Truth
is, I can hardly walk 200 feet without being out of breath, dizzy, and
fatigued. Yep, I use my Michigan diploma (an Ohio State joke) when I need
to. Days I feel OK, I park and walk.
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't
> ask -
> and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the
> blue
> spots.
>
> Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
> they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
> Corvette in front of the exit door.
>
>
> A CORVETTE??????
>
>
"George" wrote in message
> Still, a red corvette looks strange among all those white cadillacs....
Depends upon where you live. A casual observer around here would suspect
that the HC stickers either come with the title, or with your/your spouses
law degree.
Seems most every Mercedes/BMW/Lexus in the local shopping center sports one
... often driven by the trophy wife, complete with crotch hair hugging
spandex exercise shorts (and sometimes the Master of the Universe himself,
very possibly in the _same_ shorts), who parks and _runs_ in to get
Margarita mix.
What a great country ... where you can be illiterate and still drive such
nice automobiles (judging by the number of these same luxury egomobiles,
routinely parked in clearly marked "no parking" areas).
... the practice, like many of the other scofflaw attitudes in this culture,
is endemic.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 03:06:30 -0400, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
>> places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act?
>I
>> ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
>> accomodations just as good business.
>
>You're going to regret asking me this because you'll get an earful. You
>might want to take this conversation offline.
>
... snip
>
>Need to hear more? Email me privately.
>
Nope, thanks, you answered my question.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:02:57 -0400, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't ask -
>and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the blue
>spots.
>
>Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
>Corvette in front of the exit door.
>
>
>A CORVETTE??????
>
obviously a mental handicap..
probably a poor vertically challenged middle aged guy being treated for over
compensation..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
> they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
> Corvette in front of the exit door.
>
>
> A CORVETTE??????
Why not? Any logical reason a handicapped person cannot drive a sports car?
Luxury car? Truck? Having a heart or lung disease does not mean you have
to drive a ten year old sedan.
My wife has a blue hanger. Sometimes we use it, sometimes not. Sometimes we
intentionally park at the end of the lot and enjoy the walk. Other days she
care barely make it to the door from the handicapped places. Since your
wife is in a chair, all you have to do is push her a little further. What
is the problem with that? I've done that many times when my MIL was still
alive.
You sir, should be thankful you are in good health and that your wife will
recover. Others that may look normal, don't know if they will wake up
tomorrow morning. Please don't deny them a Corvette if they can afford it.
.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I am not trying to ruffle any fetahers here as I do indeed believe that
many
> situations are legit. But when the guy parks in the handicap area and
walks
> briskly into the store and or walks his empty cart to the cart parking
spot
> after emptying it I cannot see the point of him parking in the handicap
> zone. I am not quite sure I could guess what the disadvantage to parking
> like others would place on him. Living in Houston I see this just about
> every time I go to the Borg.
Well, I have to agree with you in one respect. There's always going to be a
number of people that will take advantage of the system. I've seen some
really ridiculous examples of that too.
Up here in Toronto, the disabled transit system is called Wheeltrans. I saw
a rider once who just missed his Wheeltrans bus and sprinted a good <20
second 100 yard dash down the street to try to catch it.
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The c4 Corvettes (84-96 models) are I admit a royal pain sometimes
> ( where you can not open the door all the way) to get out of since you
> sit below the bottom odge of the door sill...BUT any of the other
> generagions are just as easy to get in and out of as a Cadilac ... In
> fact I drove my 72 or 64 Convertible all the time before I had back
> surgury because I could "DROP" into them...much less painful then
> gettin in my truck...
The Corvette's proximity to the ground is much lower than a Cadillac. If
you have weak or bad knees, you will have a harder time getting in and out
of a Corvette than a Cadillac.
George wrote:
> But why contort in and out of a corvette? Certainly not comfortable.
>
> Imagine it's as some said, not the type of disability you'd even recognize.
>
> Still, a red corvette looks strange among all those white cadillacs....
>
As do the jacked up 4x4 Pickemup Trucks with the giant tires while
parked at the local bowling alley in the handicapped spaces.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> One brand of car I've been looking at lately are the smart cars. Doors
> seem
> big enough for me to get in and out and they're low enough to the ground
> that I wouldn't have to climb in. I've been considering that kind of
> modifications I'd need to get my folding wheelchair in and out.
I saw a good setup the other day. A car (Buick Century) pulled into the
parking spot and had a carrier on top that looked like the pods people use
for luggage on a vacation. From the driver's seat he was able to open it,
have the chair come down right at the door and shift himself into it.
"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think you are as stupid as you sound.
>
The feeling is mutual.
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:14:28 -0400, Odinn <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I do have bad knees, and getting in and out of my Stratus is hell on
>them. I didn't say there were as easy as a truck, but they are easier
>to get in and out of than my Stratus. Altho, my motorcycle is even
>easier to get off of than it is to get out of either the car or truck, I
>just fall off.
I've done it that way - it's part of the reason I now have bad knees.
Of course I was traveling about 65 mph when I fell off.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Leon wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>>>they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including
>>>a
>>>Corvette in front of the exit door.
>>>
>>>
>>>A CORVETTE??????
>>
> LOL. When was the last YOU crawled into of out of a Corvette? I think if
> you can do that you may not be as handicapped as your tag indicates.
Exactly! You don't sit in a Corvette, you WEAR it! If you can get into
or out of a Corvette without assistance, you can damn sure walk a few
extra parking spaces.
What really frosts me is the woodenheaded ash-holes (just to get back on
topic) who roll up and park in the handicapped zone, properly displaying
the tag or plate, and stroll into the store while leaving the
handicapped person (obviously so) sitting in the car or van. It's meant
to be a convenience, life-saver for the handicapped person, NOT the
person who happens to be riding with them.
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> construction project at one church where the number of required
handicapped
> spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now being
> involved in another construction project at a different congregation
where,
I know for a fact that many churches in Toronto have made significant
changes to enable access for the disabled. I consider churches to be private
organizations, not part of the commercial apathy that pervades Toronto's
business community when it comes to disabled access. It would make sense
too. As far as I'm concerned, a church survives on the good will of it's
congregation, many of them who might be disabled or elderly. Access makes
sense, something completely lost on Toronto's business community.
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:17:21 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>> they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
>> Corvette in front of the exit door.
>>
>>
>> A CORVETTE??????
>
>Why not? Any logical reason a handicapped person cannot drive a sports car?
>Luxury car? Truck? Having a heart or lung disease does not mean you have
>to drive a ten year old sedan.
I guess if you qualify for handicapped parking you're not allowed to
have some money and/or be a car enthusiast.
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:34:52 -0500, Duane Bozarth
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Prometheus wrote:
>>
>...
>> I think the way she got it is by being the legal guardian- my sister
>> cannot speak or move any part of her body except her right arm, couple
>> that with an estimated mental capacity of a two-year old child, and
>> it's pretty clear that someone else needs to fill out the form and
>> sign it. Not sure if it's *legal* or not, I just know it isn't right.
>...
>
>Absolutely nothing wrong to procure it in her name...only thing wrong
>would be to use it for other purposes...
Yep, I was referring to her using it on a car that cannot transport my
sister. No way to use it for it's intended purpose whatsoever. On
the van with the lift, it makes perfect sense!
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> But why contort in and out of a corvette? Certainly not comfortable.
Agreed. I've got a few friends with sports cars and although I know I could
get in them if I really wanted to, it would be a hell of an effort to get
out of them. That's aside from the fact that there would be no room for my
wheelchair anyway, (even if I dissembled it)
One brand of car I've been looking at lately are the smart cars. Doors seem
big enough for me to get in and out and they're low enough to the ground
that I wouldn't have to climb in. I've been considering that kind of
modifications I'd need to get my folding wheelchair in and out.
As I was walking toward a chain drugstore a man parked at the red
painted curb marked FIRE LANE and locked his car and I commented
"Plenty of parking places in the lot" and he replied "I'm only going
to be a minute" to which I responded "Even the handicapped" and he
said "I'm not handicapped" and I commented "You certainly are mentally
handicapped!".
On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:02:57 -0400, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't ask -
>and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the blue
>spots.
>
>Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
>Corvette in front of the exit door.
>
>
>A CORVETTE??????
>
"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
> You're the one proclaiming that a handicapped person shouldn't drive a
> Corvette.
No, I have simply indicated that if you have no problem getting in and out
of a Corvette you probably won't have trouble walking an extra 150' to get
into the store like the rest of us. The walk inside the Borg that the OP
used as an example is normally going to make the parking lot walk seem
pretty short by comparison. The fact is, probably 90% of those people
driving vehicles that require more effort to get in and out of would suffer
no ill effects by walking a bit farther. I do admit that the there are
exceptions but I seldom witness people parking in handicap spots moving any
slower than I do.
>
> --
> Odinn
> RCOS #7
> SENS(less)
> SLUG
>
> "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
> worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
>
> Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
> '03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
> '97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
> Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
> Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
>
> rot13 [email protected] to reply
"John Keeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> also hobbles- on a trip last summer. I've not been able to convince
> the license bureau that I don't need them any more.
And why should you need them anymore? Disabled parking tags (in Canada a
least) are assigned to the person that has the disability. You can use a tag
if and when you're transporting a disabled person around, but not any other
time, even if the vehicle belongs to a disabled person.
I'm trying to see what your point is. Handicapped (or whatever the PC term
is) shouldn't have Corvettes? Seriously, I don't understand, besides a bit
of venting about all the handicap spots being filled.
Up here in Canada, the number of handicap stickers in use has tripled in the
last 10 years or so. Doctors seem willing to sign for almost anyone. As an
example, an acquaintance of mine had arthroscopic knee surgery, and ended up
getting a sticker for 6 months. Couldn't understand that one, myself. But
he was quite proud of himself.
Clint
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't
> ask -
> and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the
> blue
> spots.
>
> Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
> they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
> Corvette in front of the exit door.
>
>
> A CORVETTE??????
>
>
On 7/3/2005 10:28 AM Leon mumbled something about the following:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
>>>they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including
>>>a
>>>Corvette in front of the exit door.
>>>
>>>
>>>A CORVETTE??????
>>
>>Why not? Any logical reason a handicapped person cannot drive a sports
>>car? Luxury car? Truck? Having a heart or lung disease does not mean
>>you have to drive a ten year old sedan.
>
>
> LOL. When was the last YOU crawled into of out of a Corvette? I think if
> you can do that you may not be as handicapped as your tag indicates.
>
>
I think you are as stupid as you sound.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
On 7/3/2005 11:33 AM Leon mumbled something about the following:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
>>>Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
>>>from a regular parking spot. ;~)
>>
>>Yes, but . . . . . That point is just plain flat WRONG. Getting in and
>>out of a car is far different that walking when you have a heart problem
>>of COPD and the humidity is 99%. My MIL was agile enough to get in and
>>out of any car, but her lung cancer would not allow her to walk more than
>>50 feet. No, the OP was just a narrow minded individual uneducated in the
>>problems others have in their daily lives. I hope he remains healthy.
>
>
> I understand your point but some of the vehicles parked in those spots just
> seem out of place.
>
>
Seem out of place for what? Is my motorcycle out of place for being in
a handicapped spot? A Hummer? A Lotus Elan? Those of us who are
handicapped in whatever capacity should still be allowed to own the
vehicles we wish to own.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
> flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
> of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
> and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.
>>
So do these type ailments suddenly get better once you are in the Borg and
end up walking a quarter mile or more?
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
>> handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
>> just because she has the plates.
>
> That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
> are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
> travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when
> I'm
> driving a vehicle with hand controls.
Here it CT, you get the permit as an individual. Only then can you apply for
plates for the car. Both our cars are in both our names so I'm not going
to do that but I'm not going to do that even if I can. . The placard is
signed by my wife so if I was to be challenged because I used it, there
would be a hefty fine. I can walk pretty far to avoid spending $200+
There are strict rules on how to qualify, but I'm sure there are abuses if a
doctor will sign off. There are temporary tags for injuries that will heal
such as the broken leg. .
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/