I know this comes up every season, but The Woodworking Shows may be
about over. They have been losing participants each year, and it's
getting really easy to get around the last couple of years so they may
be getting fewer customers too.
This info may or may not be worth anything, of course. But I did get it
from someone who has a position in the industry that should make inside
info available to him.
Now like I say, this may just be the usual BS, but if anyone out there
hasn't gotten around to attending but has been considering going, this
might be one of the last years for it. Or it might go on forever.
PDX David
The facts are actually showing a trend in the opposite direction. WW
is still showing strong growth across all demographic breakdowns with
Women coming on strong. Get the media kit form any ww magazine, look
at the phenominal growth in paid subscriptions and off the shelf sales
and these numbers are audited so there is just no cooking the books.
On Oct 9, 4:25 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jane & David" wrote
>
> > I know this comes up every season, but The Woodworking Shows may be
> > about over. They have been losing participants each year, and it's
> > getting really easy to get around the last couple of years so they may
> > be getting fewer customers too.
>
> From my perspective, at the root of this phenomenon is the natural waxing
> and waning of any leisure time pursuit. You can probably also see it
> reflected in the recent "decline of the woodworking magazine" discussions
> hereabouts.
>
> While there's always been the hardcore woodworker, you can make a good case
> that this latest upswing in woodworking's popularity, for the past ten years
> or so, is due mainly to TV exposure.
>
> Now, those who have gotten their wannabe cues from Norm, the DIY channel,
> Bruce Johnson, and David Marks are starting to fall by the wayside as their
> short attention spans kick in.
>
> It's also becoming harder and harder to hold onto your home, and therefore
> the "shop", in your advancing years (the usual time when many take up the
> pursuit) due to the insatiable appetite of the property taxing authorities.
>
> I'm seeing a lot more 'complete shops' being sold the past year on places
> like craigslist, and five years ago it was rare to see a used Unisaw for
> sale, now one seems to pop up every month or so around here.
>
> Eventually it'll go back the other way, if we survive ...
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/30/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
Yep, the Internet has impacted physical shows across the board in most
industries. The weak ones died and the stronger segments are bouncing
back and showing growth again as the innovate and expand their
offerings. AWFS was huge this year.
On Oct 9, 6:00 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
> > "Jane & David" wrote
>
> >> I know this comes up every season, but The Woodworking Shows may be
> >> about over. They have been losing participants each year, and it's
> >> getting really easy to get around the last couple of years so they may
> >> be getting fewer customers too.
>
> > From my perspective, at the root of this phenomenon is the natural waxing
> > and waning of any leisure time pursuit. You can probably also see it
> > reflected in the recent "decline of the woodworking magazine" discussions
> > hereabouts.
>
> The Internet.
>
> Once upon a time, shows were the places for demos and deals. Deals can
> now be had every single day on the web, and demos are easily downloaded.
> While you still can't fondle an item or shake Sam Maloof's hand over
> the web, I think the first two points attracted lots of folks to shows.
>
> I've seen similar changes regarding shows and expos in every pursuit
> I've been involved.
You nailed it. Quality wins and schlock dies. Why pay for parking, pay
for entrance and then find nothing other than the guys who can't sell
anywhere else, the guys whos catalog is online and Chiropractors
telling every person they touch that they have serious problems with
their back and one short leg.
If the guys that run that traveling circus event that has been milking
the local conference halls for years now don't add some quality to
their offering, the shows will die a deserved death. I hope they
figure it out, it will be a great channel forsome of my products once
ai get them in production.
BW
On Oct 9, 2:07 pm, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:00:40 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >The Internet.
>
> >Once upon a time, shows were the places for demos and deals. Deals can
> >now be had every single day on the web, and demos are easily downloaded.
> > While you still can't fondle an item or shake Sam Maloof's hand over
> >the web, I think the first two points attracted lots of folks to shows.
>
> True, but the fact is, a lot of shows just suck. I've stopped going
> simply because there's nothing really worthwhile seeing there and I
> can beat their prices online any day of the week. Once you figure in
> parking and fees... why bother?
The woodworking show used to be in West Springfield MA and pulled out
because of a conflict. When they left they were doing very well. Now
the http://www.woodworksevents.com/ group is running a show and seems
to be doing well. I personally like this new groups show better. That
with the Providence Furniture Show mentioned and the every two years
Hartford show ( more geared for Comercial shops) coming up this Spring
makes me think shows are doing well.All three of these seem very well
attended and growing. Maybe shows are off in some places but not New
England.just like sports teams.
"Yeah these pizza-in-a-cup guys put those cup-o-pizza guys right out
of business"
Anyone know that reference?
On Oct 11, 11:56 am, henry <[email protected]> wrote:
> The woodworking show used to be in West Springfield MA and pulled out
> because of a conflict. When they left they were doing very well. Now
> thehttp://www.woodworksevents.com/group is running a show and seems
> to be doing well. I personally like this new groups show better. That
> with the Providence Furniture Show mentioned and the every two years
> Hartford show ( more geared for Comercial shops) coming up this Spring
> makes me think shows are doing well.All three of these seem very well
> attended and growing. Maybe shows are off in some places but not New
> England.just like sports teams.
On Oct 11, 1:56 pm, henry <[email protected]> wrote:
> The woodworking show used to be in West Springfield MA and pulled out
> because of a conflict. When they left they were doing very well. Now
> thehttp://www.woodworksevents.com/group is running a show and seems
> to be doing well. I personally like this new groups show better. That
> with the Providence Furniture Show mentioned and the every two years
> Hartford show ( more geared for Comercial shops) coming up this Spring
> makes me think shows are doing well.All three of these seem very well
> attended and growing. Maybe shows are off in some places but not New
> England.just like sports teams.
Thank you, Henry. I hadn't checked that one. Signed up for Frank
Klausz's seminar. Never met the guy. :-) Schaumberg is two or three
hours away but it'll get me out of the house on a winter's day.
Now all I have to do is decide whether I want to leave about 4AM or
spend Chicago prices on a room. That's money I could spend on power
tools... or a new plane...
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>.
>
> I think that fact, rather then demand, is probably the rationale. Houston
> is so big and the traffic so bad that if you live anywhere but Jersey
> Village, the original location may as well be in Brenham as far as ease of
> access.
No kidding, the NW location is in the middle of a parking lot that looks
like a tiny freeway.
>
> The new one, from what I hear, is going to be in the SW area, not too far
> from "The Cutting Edge" ... (hmmm ... do we have a Lowe's/Home Depot thing
> going here?).
I wonder whats going on there. I would like to see the store succeed along
with the Cuttin Edge but my gut tells me that there is not enough demand for
those two stores that close together. On the SW side of Houston there is a
Texas Tool Traders, very close to me, within walking distance, Rockler, The
Cutting Edge, and the soon to be new WoodCraft. There appear to be 3
employees at the Cutting Edge and that includes the owner, Steve and his
son. Steve has been around for several years but I wonder which store will
have the deeper pockets. I see one folding.
For those of you who live in the Southeast, Klingspore has been putting on
their own show for the past 6 years and each year it has gotten bigger. Last
year it was almost the same size as The Woodworking Show when it last came
to Charlotte, NC (didn't last year). Klingspore's show will be held October
26 and 27 at the Hickory Convention Center, right alongside I-40 near exit
125 in Hickory. Parking and show entrance is always FREE and they have lots
of FREE classes and demonstrations, and a free tour of Klingspore's nearby
facility via free tour busses from the show.
For more info go to www.woodworkingshop.com
I have no affiliation with them other than being a happy customer.
I'll be there on Friday
Charley
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> BTW...
>
> Any folks who are serious about making furniture (regardless of intent
> to sell it) should check out one of the "Fine Furnishings" shows, such
> as held in Providence and Milwaukee.
>
> You won't find jigs, bits, or blades, but you will get GREAT ideas, all
> kinds of designs, and an appreciation for the look and feel of a
> terrific finish.
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> Yep, the Internet has impacted physical shows across the board in most
> industries. The weak ones died and the stronger segments are bouncing
> back and showing growth again as the innovate and expand their
> offerings. AWFS was huge this year.
Interbike does very well, too. Interbike and AWFS are industry /
wholesale oriented shows.
I think the 'net did more of a hatchet job to the retail oriented shows,
public welcome shows.
"Jane & David" wrote
> I know this comes up every season, but The Woodworking Shows may be
> about over. They have been losing participants each year, and it's
> getting really easy to get around the last couple of years so they may
> be getting fewer customers too.
From my perspective, at the root of this phenomenon is the natural waxing
and waning of any leisure time pursuit. You can probably also see it
reflected in the recent "decline of the woodworking magazine" discussions
hereabouts.
While there's always been the hardcore woodworker, you can make a good case
that this latest upswing in woodworking's popularity, for the past ten years
or so, is due mainly to TV exposure.
Now, those who have gotten their wannabe cues from Norm, the DIY channel,
Bruce Johnson, and David Marks are starting to fall by the wayside as their
short attention spans kick in.
It's also becoming harder and harder to hold onto your home, and therefore
the "shop", in your advancing years (the usual time when many take up the
pursuit) due to the insatiable appetite of the property taxing authorities.
I'm seeing a lot more 'complete shops' being sold the past year on places
like craigslist, and five years ago it was rare to see a used Unisaw for
sale, now one seems to pop up every month or so around here.
Eventually it'll go back the other way, if we survive ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>.
>>
>> I think that fact, rather then demand, is probably the rationale. Houston
>> is so big and the traffic so bad that if you live anywhere but Jersey
>> Village, the original location may as well be in Brenham as far as ease
>> of access.
>
> No kidding, the NW location is in the middle of a parking lot that looks
> like a tiny freeway.
>
>>
>> The new one, from what I hear, is going to be in the SW area, not too far
>> from "The Cutting Edge" ... (hmmm ... do we have a Lowe's/Home Depot
>> thing going here?).
>
> I wonder whats going on there. I would like to see the store succeed
> along with the Cuttin Edge but my gut tells me that there is not enough
> demand for those two stores that close together. On the SW side of
> Houston there is a Texas Tool Traders, very close to me, within walking
> distance, Rockler, The Cutting Edge, and the soon to be new WoodCraft.
> There appear to be 3 employees at the Cutting Edge and that includes the
> owner, Steve and his son. Steve has been around for several years but I
> wonder which store will have the deeper pockets. I see one folding.
>
>
I agree - not enough interested traffic with money in their pokes - and
if folks
just use convenience to provide price comparison, eventually some will have
to fold.
Used to be a great shop called Woodwright in Spring (N of Houston, off
I-45)
but they're all shuttered now...... Staff & depth of pockets make a bit of
difference,
but eventually (buyer) traffic wins out, IMHO.
NGA
>>The Internet.
>>
>>Once upon a time, shows were the places for demos and deals. Deals can
>>now be had every single day on the web, and demos are easily downloaded.
>> While you still can't fondle an item or shake Sam Maloof's hand over
>>the web, I think the first two points attracted lots of folks to shows.
>
> True, but the fact is, a lot of shows just suck. I've stopped going
> simply because there's nothing really worthwhile seeing there and I
> can beat their prices online any day of the week. Once you figure in
> parking and fees... why bother?
The biggest knock I have about the shows is that the hawks are yelling to
EVERYONE with loudspeakers so that if I'm talking to a salesdude/dudette in
one booth, the guy two or three booths away is so loud I can't hear a thing.
And if you have a booth and have to hire locals to actually do the sales,
fine, but be prepared to fire them...they are just temps, after all. I was
at the Milwaukee show 2 or 3 years ago and was in a booth...large one, heavy
into turning stuff...might have been TWC... and the young lady working the
booth was too busy trying to sell a single turning smock to a dude that just
wanted to look down her shirt and ignored me as I'm standing at he check-out
with several hundred dollars worth of stuff. Not a word from here until I
walked away, then it was to tell me that I need to put the stuff back. I
wasn't nice to her at that point.
Mike
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote
> The facts are actually showing a trend in the opposite direction.
People are much easier to fool with "facts" ... and WW tools are much better
made now than they were twenty years ago, eh?
Then again, another WoodCraft is opening in Houston, that'll make two ...
and the old one is as empty as a tomb most of the time. Walk in the local
Rockler at any time of the day on a week day and the salesman are playing
pocket pool.
Fronts, tax dodges, or one helluva markup on Chinese made crap?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Swingman wrote:
> "Jane & David" wrote
>
>> I know this comes up every season, but The Woodworking Shows may be
>> about over. They have been losing participants each year, and it's
>> getting really easy to get around the last couple of years so they may
>> be getting fewer customers too.
>
> From my perspective, at the root of this phenomenon is the natural waxing
> and waning of any leisure time pursuit. You can probably also see it
> reflected in the recent "decline of the woodworking magazine" discussions
> hereabouts.
The Internet.
Once upon a time, shows were the places for demos and deals. Deals can
now be had every single day on the web, and demos are easily downloaded.
While you still can't fondle an item or shake Sam Maloof's hand over
the web, I think the first two points attracted lots of folks to shows.
I've seen similar changes regarding shows and expos in every pursuit
I've been involved.
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 06:54:59 -0400, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:
>SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> Yep, the Internet has impacted physical shows across the board in most
>> industries. The weak ones died and the stronger segments are bouncing
>> back and showing growth again as the innovate and expand their
>> offerings. AWFS was huge this year.
>
>Interbike does very well, too. Interbike and AWFS are industry /
>wholesale oriented shows.
>
AWFS is a mixed bag. Wholesale on the furniture supply side,
industrial user on the big machine side, and a whole lot of retail for
the brands that would be discussed in this forum.
Many of the machinery brands are there because they have to be.
Certainly a money loser but wouldn't want to be the competitor who
didn't show. Who makes out is the local distributor who has a lot of
company pro's selling product that they did not have to stock or floor
plan. And in Delta's case, the prices usually were the best of the
year, with the exception of some overstock situation that might come
up later in the year. The show machines were a great deal (show price
plus additional discount for the machine never having to be handled by
the sponsor distributor) if you can handle the logistics of hauling it
out on Sunday, otherwise it was a matter of picking your distributor
and having it shipped to them.
I bought a number of items at AWFS and never saw a better price later
on. Kreg and Forrest products come to mind.
I don't think AWFS will decline, however, the smaller regional shows
and distributor shows have to be profitable for the distributor to
keep going. The big manufacturers just write the show loss to the
marketing budget
Frank
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:13:00 -0700, "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If the guys that run that traveling circus event that has been milking
>the local conference halls for years now don't add some quality to
>their offering, the shows will die a deserved death. I hope they
>figure it out, it will be a great channel forsome of my products once
>ai get them in production.
The problem is, I don't see what they could possibly do to add quality
or make it worthwhile. There really is no way they can compete
price-wise or selection-wise with the net and how many times can you
see the same turning demonstration? I know the last show I ever went
to, a couple years ago now, I took a couple of prices from the net
along and wanted to see if they could beat them, just because they
didn't want to drag everything back on the plane to wherever. The
best price I found was about 10-12% above the net price including
shipping. I left and ordered it.
"Scott Zrubek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Another Woodcraft in Houston? Cool. Maybe it'll be closer to me.
> Actually, it couldn't be further away from me than the current one and
> still be in Houston.
Yes, very close to The Cutting Edge on the West Belt south of the SW
freeway. It will be on the south bound side on the belt between West
Belfort and West Airport. IIRC it will be next door to SOS Armorery, a law
enforcement supply store. The store will be large compared to its
competition and IIRC compared to the NW store. They will stock a bigger
supply of lumber and should open in November, originally Nov 1 but now it
has been pushed back a few weeks.
Norm Abram and David Marks are "supposed" to be at the store shortly after
opening.
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The facts are actually showing a trend in the opposite direction. WW
>is still showing strong growth across all demographic breakdowns with
>Women coming on strong. Get the media kit form any ww magazine, look
>at the phenominal growth in paid subscriptions and off the shelf sales
So far, so good.
>and these numbers are audited so there is just no cooking the books.
Tell that last part to Enron's shareholders!! <g>
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:00:40 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The Internet.
>
>Once upon a time, shows were the places for demos and deals. Deals can
>now be had every single day on the web, and demos are easily downloaded.
> While you still can't fondle an item or shake Sam Maloof's hand over
>the web, I think the first two points attracted lots of folks to shows.
True, but the fact is, a lot of shows just suck. I've stopped going
simply because there's nothing really worthwhile seeing there and I
can beat their prices online any day of the week. Once you figure in
parking and fees... why bother?
"Scott Zrubek" wrote
> Another Woodcraft in Houston? Cool. Maybe it'll be closer to me.
> Actually, it couldn't be further away from me than the current one and
> still be in Houston.
I think that fact, rather then demand, is probably the rationale. Houston is
so big and the traffic so bad that if you live anywhere but Jersey Village,
the original location may as well be in Brenham as far as ease of access.
The new one, from what I hear, is going to be in the SW area, not too far
from "The Cutting Edge" ... (hmmm ... do we have a Lowe's/Home Depot thing
going here?).
I think Leon may know its exact location.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
In article <[email protected]>,
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Scott Zrubek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Another Woodcraft in Houston? Cool. Maybe it'll be closer to me.
> > Actually, it couldn't be further away from me than the current one and
> > still be in Houston.
>
> Yes, very close to The Cutting Edge on the West Belt south of the SW
> freeway. It will be on the south bound side on the belt between West
> Belfort and West Airport. IIRC it will be next door to SOS Armorery, a law
> enforcement supply store. The store will be large compared to its
> competition and IIRC compared to the NW store. They will stock a bigger
> supply of lumber and should open in November, originally Nov 1 but now it
> has been pushed back a few weeks.
> Norm Abram and David Marks are "supposed" to be at the store shortly after
> opening.
Well, at least it is *closer*. It's still a bit of a drive from Clear
Lake.
This might be perfect timing. I'm going to be buying all new tools for
my soon-to-be-finished shop and this will make it easy to compare prices.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" wrote
>
> > The facts are actually showing a trend in the opposite direction.
>
> People are much easier to fool with "facts" ... and WW tools are much better
> made now than they were twenty years ago, eh?
>
> Then again, another WoodCraft is opening in Houston, that'll make two ...
> and the old one is as empty as a tomb most of the time. Walk in the local
> Rockler at any time of the day on a week day and the salesman are playing
> pocket pool.
>
> Fronts, tax dodges, or one helluva markup on Chinese made crap?
Another Woodcraft in Houston? Cool. Maybe it'll be closer to me.
Actually, it couldn't be further away from me than the current one and
still be in Houston.
Jane & David wrote:
> I know this comes up every season, but The Woodworking Shows may be
> about over. They have been losing participants each year, and it's
> getting really easy to get around the last couple of years so they may
> be getting fewer customers too.
>
> This info may or may not be worth anything, of course. But I did get it
> from someone who has a position in the industry that should make inside
> info available to him.
>
> Now like I say, this may just be the usual BS, but if anyone out there
> hasn't gotten around to attending but has been considering going, this
> might be one of the last years for it. Or it might go on forever.
>
> PDX David
I can understand why. They had a show in Buffalo, NY this past weekend.
If I hadn't received a postcard (I'm on their mailing list from
previous year(s) attendance) informing me of the show I would not have
known the show was here. I did not see one newspaper ad for the show
nor was there any radio/TV advertisement.
Two year ago the major vendors boycotted the show. I was told by one of
the vendors it was due to lack of the show's promotion. Last year's
show had few vendors. This year it was even smaller. Why should the
vendors participate if "The Woodworking Shows" fail to advertise?
Homier has a show coming up this weekend in Hamburg, NY (same place as
The Woodworking Show). At least they had a four page color ad in the
local paper.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
BTW...
Any folks who are serious about making furniture (regardless of intent
to sell it) should check out one of the "Fine Furnishings" shows, such
as held in Providence and Milwaukee.
You won't find jigs, bits, or blades, but you will get GREAT ideas, all
kinds of designs, and an appreciation for the look and feel of a
terrific finish.