[email protected] writes:
>If you are worried about virus', you better just stay off the 'net!
>Greg
Or use a Mac. :-)
Glenna
Upscale wrote:
> "JR-jred" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. What is YOUR point?
>
> My point is that I'm thoroughly tired of the elitist bullshit that
> Mac users spout whenever problems with Microsoft come up.
Why not look at it as if someone was saying there maybe something that makes
a better dado than a wobble?
Microsoft DID make decisions years ago that continue to negatively affect
the reliability and security of their products. Security at MS is job 1.1.
> I use Windows and I even admit to using Outlook. So what? I use
> whatever program is appropriate for me at that moment of time. Those
> programs as well as a few dozen others do what I want them to do,
> when I want them to. A decent firewall and virus checker and I'm good
> to whenever I want.
In some important ways, Microsoft is the "Craftsman" brand of software,
complete with "features" analogus to the notorious C*man router random
height adjustment.
They're getting better with some products. A year and a half ago I bought
two new Dell desktops. The computers are almost identical. WinXP Pro is on
one and Windows Server 2003 is on the other. The server box has run
flawlessly. It boots nearly as quick as my TV. I'm quite impressed with
WinServer 2003. The WinXP box, OTOH, has required a lot of my time to keep
functional as the "family" PC. For example Windows Update no longer works
automatically; I have muck around a bit to make it work.
I got interested in programming in 1976 and have more or less grown up with
the PC industry. Here's my really short version of why much MS software has
problems: MS PC software started as a "toy" or "hobbiest" level product.
PC-DOS 1.0 and MS-DOS 1.0 were for single user, unsecured computers. Most
early PCs only had 2 floppies, but I spent about $2k to get a 10 MB hard
drive. ("10 Megabytes? My god, what will you do with all that space?")
There was no security in MSDOS 1.0. I could access any bit of memory
anytime.
By contrast, the mainframe and minicomputers of the area were designed with
security in mind. Multiple people used them at the same time, and problems
like making sure one person's printout was finished before starting the next
person's job had been solved for years.
As MSDOS and later Windows needed to do more and more, like security and
networking, these features were "bolted on." To use the Craftsman analogy,
they started with a bare-bones 1/2 HP direct-drive bench saw and added cast
iron wings, 1.5" dado capability, both left and right tilt, and a sliding
cutoff table. They also hung a 2 HP motor below the 1/2 motor and rigged
some belts to help the 1/2 HP motor spin the blade. (Not far from the
literal truth. <g>)
Win NT 4.0, Win 2000 and Win Server 2003 I've had good results with. But
Win 3.x, 95, 95B, 98, 98 SR2, ME and to some extent XP I've had problems
with. Before .NET, it was really, really, *really* hard to write install
programs for non-trivial software that would work on Win 95 to 2000.
*Really* difficult, nearing impossibility, if you had to mess with MDAC
(Microsoft Data Access Confusion.)
I like MS's .NET. It's a whale of a product. Security was designed in, not
bolted on.
I'm glad MS works for you. Be sure to keep the patches & virus definitions
current. I've started running spyware/malware protection as well as hosts
file blocking on all my machines. If that's a "Huh?" for anyone I recommend
setting your newsreader to news.grc.com and have a look, especially in
grc.security, grc.security.software and grc.spyware. That's where I learned
what to do and what to avoid.
-- Mark
In article <[email protected]>, Upscale
<[email protected]> wrote:
> The only thing I can assume is that all the non-Windows users out there feel
> putdown somehow.
Hmm. I'm a "non-Windows user" and don't feel put down at all. I don't
typically respond to anti-Mac rants, nor do I make anti-Windows slags.
I'm sincerely glad that you feel totally satisfied with your platform
choice.
I'm totally satisfied with my choice as well.
WTF it has to do with woodworking, I'll leave to someone else to
explain.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> writes:
>My point is that I'm thoroughly tired of the elitist bullshit that Mac users
>spout whenever problems with Microsoft come up.
Relax, the Mac is a niche product. In the graphic arts, Mac users
aren't "elite", because they all use Macs. Not because they're
better, but because they've always used Macs, and why switch now?
It's a nice machine, but it's Unix underneath, and Linux has
improved a lot lately (check out http://www.mepis.org/)
Apart from popularity, there are two other reasons why Windows
gets hit with more viruses:
The first is that when MS does release patches, a lot of people
don't install them, for whatever reason. There have been virus
outbreaks where the patches already existed.
The other is that since MS got hit first, the other guys have had
time to get their houses in order. The old MacOS was said to be
very insecure, the current one is much less so. Many linux
distributions used to be insecure by default, but now they're not.
>I use Windows and I even admit to using Outlook. So what?
Outlook can be replaced...
In article <[email protected]>,
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Glenna Rose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >If you are worried about virus', you better just stay off the 'net!
> > >Greg
> >
> > Or use a Mac. :-)
>
> And if Apple changed places with Microsoft as far as popularity, then
> hackers would be writing malicious code for Macintosh. So, what's your
> point?
>
>
And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. What is YOUR point?
--
-JR
Hung like Einstein and smart as a horse
Remove NO SPAM from e-mai address to reply
"JR-jred" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. What is YOUR point?
My point is that I'm thoroughly tired of the elitist bullshit that Mac users
spout whenever problems with Microsoft come up.
I use Windows and I even admit to using Outlook. So what? I use whatever
program is appropriate for me at that moment of time. Those programs as well
as a few dozen others do what I want them to do, when I want them to. A
decent firewall and virus checker and I'm good to whenever I want.
So all you Mac users, if you're going to criticise the operating system I
use when I've never once bother to criticise whatever you use, then Go Fuck
Yourself.
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:50:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote:
> Hmm. I'm a "non-Windows user" and don't feel put down at all. I don't
> typically respond to anti-Mac rants, nor do I make anti-Windows slags.
> I'm sincerely glad that you feel totally satisfied with your platform
> choice.
> I'm totally satisfied with my choice as well.
>
> WTF it has to do with woodworking, I'll leave to someone else to
> explain.
OOh! I know this one! I'll take "nothing at all" for 200, Dave.
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%8qCd.23886
>
> Why not look at it as if someone was saying there maybe something that
makes
> a better dado than a wobble?
Because the attitude is different. Craftsman, Canadian Tire, Princess Auto,
whatever tools are out there, people here will mostly say they don't like
them, but they don't launch into a tirade of everything that's wrong with
them. Instead people offer suggestions for a different improved product or
model. That doesn't happen when someone is putting down Windows. It's all
about that it's crap and person is a clueless idiot for using it. I don't
criticise someone for using Craftsman, more power to them. By the same
token, I don't go after someone solely because they don't use Windows. The
reverse is not true.
> In some important ways, Microsoft is the "Craftsman" brand of software,
> complete with "features" analogus to the notorious C*man router random
> height adjustment.
See? Now that's a friendly comment and not at all personal. The way it was
phrased doesn't bother me at all. That's not the way it was with all the
other Windows putdown comments in this thread.
The only thing I can assume is that all the non-Windows users out there feel
putdown somehow. They believe they have a superior product, but for some
reason, Windows still holds the majority of the market. Even if it's only
because of superior marketing that makes Windows the most popular OS, it
still in some way belittles all the other OS's out there. Whatever reason,
they're product is less in some way. That's the attitude that prevails when
they attack Windows users and I'm sick to death of it.
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 08:24:40 -0500, Upscale wrote:
>
>> So all you Mac users, if you're going to criticise the operating system I
>> use when I've never once bother to criticise whatever you use, then Go
>> Fuck Yourself.
>
> Keep using Windows instead of Mac, Unix, Linux, BSD, ... and you'll do it
> to yourself ;-)
Keep encouraging people to use something other than Windows and maybe
something else will become popular enough to become an attractive target,
at which point you'll have screwed all the Mac, Unix, Linux, BSD, OS/2,
Plan 9, BeOS, or whatever users out there who get caught by the resulting
flood of malware.
>
> - Doug
>
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 08:24:40 -0500, Upscale wrote:
> So all you Mac users, if you're going to criticise the operating system I
> use when I've never once bother to criticise whatever you use, then Go Fuck
> Yourself.
Keep using Windows instead of Mac, Unix, Linux, BSD, ... and you'll do it
to yourself ;-)
- Doug
--
To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 10:09:15 -0500, Upscale wrote:
> "Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Keep using Windows instead of Mac, Unix, Linux, BSD, ... and you'll do it
>> to yourself ;-)
>
> Well, considering it's been at least a dozen years, what's taking it so
> long? Oh, by the way Doug, thanks' for confirming yourself as a smug
> asshole. :)
>
> See the :) there Doug? Like you, I'm trying to be funny. Got that asshole?
> :)
And thank you for confirming yourself as being worthy of invisibility.
--
To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:24:13 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
> Keep encouraging people to use something other than Windows and maybe
> something else will become popular enough to become an attractive target,
> at which point you'll have screwed all the Mac, Unix, Linux, BSD, OS/2,
> Plan 9, BeOS, or whatever users out there who get caught by the resulting
> flood of malware.
This is the standard Windows advocate response but it's not likely, at
least to the same degree and for many reasons. The folks who do make the
switch are inclined to and must learn more than the plug & play of Windows
- things such as not to run everything with root/administrator priviliges,
the importance of properly configured and operating firewalls, never
auto-opening attachments, running spam/virus filters, etc. Having
upgraded windows machines that auto reboot / freeze up for no reason, many
times I have found they run without problems after installing linux, bsd,
etc. which speaks to the quality/reliability of the software. Of the 5
machines that are currently in use in my house, one is a new Dell XP for
my wife and the other four are ex Windows boxes that had the
reboot/blue-screen/freeze-up syndromes that having been reloaded with
linux/bsd have never suffered any of these afflictions. I'm hoping the
the new XP machine with all it's service packs/critical upgrades is an
improvement over previous experiences, and for it's one weeks worth of
use, it hasn't had to be rebooted or done it on its own. At least I've
been able to start the weaning process of getting my wife off the never
ending Windows costs by opting for OpenOffice rather than the $495 MS
Office Professional suite. That would have doubled the cost of the new
Dell! So far, she has no problems with OpenOffice and there are some
bucks for the shop/wood available that wouldn't have been otherwise.
- Doug
--
To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:39:49 -0000, [email protected] (Ron Bean)
wrote:
>
>The other is that since MS got hit first, the other guys have had
>time to get their houses in order. The old MacOS was said to be
>very insecure, the current one is much less so. Many linux
>distributions used to be insecure by default, but now they're not.
THere have been attacks of various sorts since before MS
was invented and various "other guys" got their houses in
order a long time ago. The number one problem is that MS
has always treated its operating systems as cash cows,
siphoning off money that should have been spent on
straightening them out to do little things like be reasonably
secure, multitasking reasonably well, etc.
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Keep using Windows instead of Mac, Unix, Linux, BSD, ... and you'll do it
> to yourself ;-)
Well, considering it's been at least a dozen years, what's taking it so
long? Oh, by the way Doug, thanks' for confirming yourself as a smug
asshole. :)
See the :) there Doug? Like you, I'm trying to be funny. Got that asshole?
:)
"Glenna Rose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >If you are worried about virus', you better just stay off the 'net!
> >Greg
>
> Or use a Mac. :-)
And if Apple changed places with Microsoft as far as popularity, then
hackers would be writing malicious code for Macintosh. So, what's your
point?