On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
all looked like this:
https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
preservative was injected?
If you are ever in Astoria, OR stop for a snack/meal at Coffee Girl, right
inside the old cannery on Pier 39. They still serve their customers at
the original counter that the Coffee Girl used to serve coffee to the
cannery workers. Great food and greater coffee.
https://www.google.com/search?q=coffee+girl+astoria&tbm=isch
Outside the cafe, but still inside the cannery, they've created
a very rustic museum highlighting the history of the cannery, with
boats, cannery equipment, lots of pictures, etc. You can go into
the power room and see a few different generations of the generators
and other power distribution equipment. It's a pretty cool place.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cannery+museum+astoria&tbm=isch
On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 10:28:58 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 10:21:41 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> > On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:04:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
> > >near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
> > >
> > >All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
> > >look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
> > >all looked like this:
> > >
> > >https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
> > >
> > >Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
> > >preservative was injected?
> >
> > Yes - it is pressure treated wood and the marks are from the"wheels"
> > that drive the wood through the treating process - and help the
> > treatment penetrate deeper into the wood
>
> And yet we don't see the marks on *all* pressure treated wood. At least I
> where I live, even on wooden docks. Maybe it's a west coast thing?
At least *not* where I live...
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 12:23:05 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:10:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:04:46 -0700
> >(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
> >>On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
> >>near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
> >>
> >>All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
> >>look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
> >>all looked like this:
> >>
> >>https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
> >>
> >>Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
> >>preservative was injected?
> >
> > Yes.
> Here is an answer taken right off of the CWC webpage:
>
>
>
>
> Incising is the process of cutting many small slits into the surface
> of a piece of wood in order to increase the amount of preservative
> taken up by the wood during treatment. Some wood species are
> particularly hard to treat, and incising is necessary to meet the
> penetration requirements in CSA standards. Non-incised CCA-treated
> wood will have a shorter service life than incised CCA-treated wood,
> but the difference may not be noticeable in the short term (under 20
> years) in relatively low decay hazards such as decking. For wood in
> critical structural applications under conditions conducive to decay,
> incising could make the difference between 4 and >40 years service.
> Incising is not necessary with borate-treatment, because borate
> diffuses to achieve the required penetration. With borate-treated
> wood, there in no difference in performance between non-incised and
> incised, provided the target chemical content is achieved. There is a
> strength-loss penalty for incising, which is addressed during
> structural design.
>
> The slits or incisions are on all 4 sides in any lumber I have seen
Not to mention that it makes the wood look a lot cooler. ;-)
On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 8:45:13 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> > Or the "foul smell" was Creosote, prolly the most widely used
> >industrial wood preservative 'back in the day' for utility poles,
> >railroad crossties, etc.
> >
> And good riddance. I didn't have to even smell it to break out in
> hives. Nasty stuff.
The foul smell on my salvaged pieces wasn't creosote. The cross pieces we=
re not treated with creosote. Only the poles were.
Albeit, despite creosote smelling bad, it's still around in older pieces, p=
oles, posts. Some of the high line poles on my street are creosote treated=
. Related: As to the child nursery, next door, the kids wait for the schoo=
l bus at the road, near a pole and the ditch. The kids like to watch the m=
innows in the ditch, hugging the post as they watch, leaning over the "view=
". I wrapped the pole, up to 8' with "decorative" lumber (red cedar), to p=
rotect the kids from the burns from the creosote. The wrapping is easily r=
emovable, for any utility maintenance, work, etc.
Sonny
On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 9:28:58 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> And yet we don't see the marks on *all* pressure treated wood. At least I
> where I live, even on wooden docks. Maybe it's a west coast thing?
It's probably where you live in some applications, you just might not notice it often. Here in south Louisiana, all the wooden cross members on the older wooden high line poles have those slit marks.
I had salvaged some 4X4 cross members, long ago. I had supposed they were treated, but had no idea the slits were part of the treatment process. Cutting/sawing it, to make a porch swing, produced a foul odor, from the chemical(s) no doubt.
Sonny
pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sonny <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
> typed in rec.woodworking the following:
> >On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 9:28:58 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >
> >> And yet we don't see the marks on *all* pressure treated wood. At least I
> >> where I live, even on wooden docks. Maybe it's a west coast thing?
> >
> >It's probably where you live in some applications, you just might not notice it often. Here in south Louisiana, all the wooden cross members on the older wooden high line poles have those slit marks.
> >
> >I had salvaged some 4X4 cross members, long ago. I had supposed they were treated, but had no idea the slits were part of the treatment process. Cutting/sawing it, to make a porch swing, produced a foul odor, from the chemical(s) no doubt.
>
> They use to treat it with a copper arsenic compound. Worked well,
> but - it was toxic. So in the interest of saving the environment,
> that formula was replaced with copper-sulfate.
> That said, the smell you had may have been from the wood itself.
> Somme of them can smell pretty bad when sawn.
Or the "foul smell" was Creosote, prolly the most widely used
industrial wood preservative 'back in the day' for utility poles,
railroad crossties, etc.
I remember as a kid in the `50s & `60s the unmistakable smell of
Creosote being a pretty common thing, especially during the hot
summer months. That once familiar odor has now disappeared.
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:01:52 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:
>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sonny <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
>> typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>> >On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 9:28:58 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >
>> >> And yet we don't see the marks on *all* pressure treated wood. At least I
>> >> where I live, even on wooden docks. Maybe it's a west coast thing?
>> >
>> >It's probably where you live in some applications, you just might not notice it often. Here in south Louisiana, all the wooden cross members on the older wooden high line poles have those slit marks.
>> >
>> >I had salvaged some 4X4 cross members, long ago. I had supposed they were treated, but had no idea the slits were part of the treatment process. Cutting/sawing it, to make a porch swing, produced a foul odor, from the chemical(s) no doubt.
>>
>> They use to treat it with a copper arsenic compound. Worked well,
>> but - it was toxic. So in the interest of saving the environment,
>> that formula was replaced with copper-sulfate.
>> That said, the smell you had may have been from the wood itself.
>> Somme of them can smell pretty bad when sawn.
>
> Or the "foul smell" was Creosote, prolly the most widely used
>industrial wood preservative 'back in the day' for utility poles,
>railroad crossties, etc.
>
>I remember as a kid in the `50s & `60s the unmistakable smell of
>Creosote being a pretty common thing, especially during the hot
>summer months. That once familiar odor has now disappeared.
And good riddance. I didn't have to even smell it to break out in
hives. Nasty stuff.
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:04:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
>near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
>
>All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
>look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
>all looked like this:
>
>https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
>
>Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
>preservative was injected?
Yes - it is pressure treated wood and the marks are from the"wheels"
that drive the wood through the treating process - and help the
treatment penetrate deeper into the wood
>
>If you are ever in Astoria, OR stop for a snack/meal at Coffee Girl, right
>inside the old cannery on Pier 39. They still serve their customers at
>the original counter that the Coffee Girl used to serve coffee to the
>cannery workers. Great food and greater coffee.
>
>https://www.google.com/search?q=coffee+girl+astoria&tbm=isch
>
>Outside the cafe, but still inside the cannery, they've created
>a very rustic museum highlighting the history of the cannery, with
>boats, cannery equipment, lots of pictures, etc. You can go into
>the power room and see a few different generations of the generators
>and other power distribution equipment. It's a pretty cool place.
>
>https://www.google.com/search?q=cannery+museum+astoria&tbm=isch
On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:18:13 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 8:45:13 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> > > Or the "foul smell" was Creosote, prolly the most widely used
> > >industrial wood preservative 'back in the day' for utility poles,
> > >railroad crossties, etc.
> > >
>=20
> > And good riddance. I didn't have to even smell it to break out in
> > hives. Nasty stuff.
>=20
> The foul smell on my salvaged pieces wasn't creosote. The cross pieces =
were not treated with creosote. Only the poles were.
>=20
> Albeit, despite creosote smelling bad, it's still around in older pieces,=
poles, posts. Some of the high line poles on my street are creosote treat=
ed. Related: As to the child nursery, next door, the kids wait for the sch=
ool bus at the road, near a pole and the ditch. The kids like to watch the=
minnows in the ditch, hugging the post as they watch, leaning over the "vi=
ew". I wrapped the pole, up to 8' with "decorative" lumber (red cedar), to=
protect the kids from the burns from the creosote. The wrapping is easily=
removable, for any utility maintenance, work, etc.
>=20
> Sonny
On behalf of the children, thank you!
Sonny <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 9:28:58 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>> And yet we don't see the marks on *all* pressure treated wood. At least I
>> where I live, even on wooden docks. Maybe it's a west coast thing?
>
>It's probably where you live in some applications, you just might not notice it often. Here in south Louisiana, all the wooden cross members on the older wooden high line poles have those slit marks.
>
>I had salvaged some 4X4 cross members, long ago. I had supposed they were treated, but had no idea the slits were part of the treatment process. Cutting/sawing it, to make a porch swing, produced a foul odor, from the chemical(s) no doubt.
They use to treat it with a copper arsenic compound. Worked well,
but - it was toxic. So in the interest of saving the environment,
that formula was replaced with copper-sulfate.
That said, the smell you had may have been from the wood itself.
Somme of them can smell pretty bad when sawn.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 10:21:41 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:04:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
> >near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
> >
> >All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
> >look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
> >all looked like this:
> >
> >https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
> >
> >Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
> >preservative was injected?
>
> Yes - it is pressure treated wood and the marks are from the"wheels"
> that drive the wood through the treating process - and help the
> treatment penetrate deeper into the wood
And yet we don't see the marks on *all* pressure treated wood. At least I
where I live, even on wooden docks. Maybe it's a west coast thing?
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:18:13 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> > On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 8:45:13 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > > Or the "foul smell" was Creosote, prolly the most widely used
> > > >industrial wood preservative 'back in the day' for utility poles,
> > > >railroad crossties, etc.
> > > >
> >
> > > And good riddance. I didn't have to even smell it to break out in
> > > hives. Nasty stuff.
> >
> > The foul smell on my salvaged pieces wasn't creosote. The cross pieces were not treated with creosote. Only the poles were.
> >
> > Albeit, despite creosote smelling bad, it's still around in older pieces, poles, posts. Some of the high line poles on my street are creosote treated. Related: As to the child nursery, next door, the kids wait for the school bus at the road, near a pole and the ditch. The kids like to watch the minnows in the ditch, hugging the post as they watch, leaning over the "view". I wrapped the pole, up to 8' with "decorative" lumber (red cedar), to protect the kids from the burns from the creosote. The wrapping is easily removable, for any utility maintenance, work, etc.
> >
> > Sonny
>
> On behalf of the children, thank you!
+1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrXIUckWEAEAObU.jpg
On 6/14/19 8:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 10:21:41 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:04:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
>>> near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
>>>
>>> All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
>>> look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
>>> all looked like this:
>>>
>>> https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
>>>
>>> Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
>>> preservative was injected?
>>
>> Yes - it is pressure treated wood and the marks are from the"wheels"
>> that drive the wood through the treating process - and help the
>> treatment penetrate deeper into the wood
>
> And yet we don't see the marks on *all* pressure treated wood. At least I
> where I live, even on wooden docks. Maybe it's a west coast thing?
>
As others have stated, I have heard it's a quality thing. The cuts aid
preservative penetration and make for a better product, at a value-added
price of course...
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:10:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:
>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:04:46 -0700
>(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
>>near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
>>
>>All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
>>look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
>>all looked like this:
>>
>>https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
>>
>>Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
>>preservative was injected?
>
> Yes.
Here is an answer taken right off of the CWC webpage:
Incising is the process of cutting many small slits into the surface
of a piece of wood in order to increase the amount of preservative
taken up by the wood during treatment. Some wood species are
particularly hard to treat, and incising is necessary to meet the
penetration requirements in CSA standards. Non-incised CCA-treated
wood will have a shorter service life than incised CCA-treated wood,
but the difference may not be noticeable in the short term (under 20
years) in relatively low decay hazards such as decking. For wood in
critical structural applications under conditions conducive to decay,
incising could make the difference between 4 and >40 years service.
Incising is not necessary with borate-treatment, because borate
diffuses to achieve the required penetration. With borate-treated
wood, there in no difference in performance between non-incised and
incised, provided the target chemical content is achieved. There is a
strength-loss penalty for incising, which is addressed during
structural design.
The slits or incisions are on all 4 sides in any lumber I have seen
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:04:46 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On our recent trip to Oregon we walked along the docks in Astoria, right
>near the original Bumble Bee Tuna cannery on the Columbia River.
>
>All of the wood on the docks, the railings and even the railroad ties
>look like the following. There was a mixture of old wood and new and it
>all looked like this:
>
>https://i.imgur.com/IOgfmsB.jpg
>
>Do the "dashes" serve a purpose? Are they perhaps marks from where
>preservative was injected?
Yes.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?