BA

Bay Area Dave

16/01/2004 3:22 PM

Do you work wood in a "shop" or a "studio"?

Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...


dave


This topic has 56 replies

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 5:29 PM

In article <[email protected]>, C <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>> Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
>> woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...

>It's all about newspeak.
>
[snip]
>
>We all do it, we speak in embellishing ways. A rose is a rose is a rose
>until it becomes something special with a moniker descriptive or each
>hybrid.

Yeah, like this new term "metrosexual" for guys that pay too much attention to
how they look. When I was a kid, they were called "pansies".

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

RM

"Ron Magen"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 3:27 PM

Then I guess you could call our two Malamutes 'Artists' and the back drive
their 'Studio' because they certainly produce some 'artful pieces' !!

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{and if you think I'm kidding . . . I'll give you odds, that if I 'spray'
them with epoxy, let it fully cure, and make up some 'spiel' . . . SOMEBODY
*WILL* buy it . . . e-bay or otherwise !! - Remember the 'Pet Rock' ? Or
'Plastic Dog Shit Hide-a-Key' ?}

"Charles Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> > woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>
> The difference is in your product. If what you produce is classified as
> "Art" then you have a studio. If you produce "Functional" pieces, then
> you have a shop. Dunno what you have if your art is functional! :-)
> Confused?
>
> SWMBO is into pottery, and on occasion I help her with a project. In
> reading some of the literature from that field I see the same
> distinction, although less prevalent. If you make functional ware then
> you have a "Pottery", but the art producers have a Studio.
>
> Ohhhhh!
>
> CharlesJ
> --
> ========================================================================
> Charles Jones | Works at HP, | email: [email protected]
> Hewlett-Packard | doesn't speak | ICQ: 29610755
> Loveland, Colorado | for HP | AIM: LovelandCharles
> USA | |Jabber: [email protected]

JT

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 1:20 PM

Fri, Jan 16, 2004, 3:22pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Bay=A0Area=A0Dave) says
(without the article cited):
Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...

Some of my stuff would be called art, by the whatever crowd. I
don't call it that and work out of a shop, not a studio.

A few years back I met, I guess about all you could call him would
be an artist, he was/is that good. He looked like he had come off of a
3-day drunk - he hadn't - no shoes or socks, I don't know if he forgot,
didn't want to wear them, didn' know where they were, or didn't own any.
The guy actually hadn't been much of a success at anything, until a very
few years before, he discovered he had a tallent for carving birds.
Used mostly a pocketknife, and made museum quality birds. And, when I
say museum quality, I don't just mean they look good, apparently a few
are actually in museums. I held one in my hands, and it looked like it
could beathe. Went for about $300 a pop, at that time, and I'm sure
more now, and took him a grand total of about 3 days working to make
one, life-size. And, he worked out of his shop.

JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt=A0=A0=A0

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 15 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

Gg

"Groggy"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

18/01/2004 10:33 AM

<rubs eyes>

Traves, is that really you?

Good to read you again, didja get lost in that truck of yours?

Greg

"Traves W. Coppock" <newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:55:39 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
> Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:
>
> >Are you implying that anyone who chooses to use the term "studio" when
> >referring to their wood shop is being prissy? :) When I think of
> >"studio" I think of Paramount or MGM or an artist's loft in SF, or a
> >photographer's studio.
> >
>
> snip
>
>
> "prissy"...hmmm must be the PC way to say it nowadays?
>

AD

Andy Dingley

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 7:27 PM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...

Does the US have a distinction between "Arts" and "Crafts" ?

In the UK, this is a huge separation. Crafts people laugh at artists
and their frivolity, artists won't even let us in the building, let
alone the gallery opening. There's a shared studio space in town that
I'd _love_ to be working in, but as a "craft" furniture maker, the
"artists" there just won't rent to craftspeople. If this is a rather
arbitrary call for someone who welds sculptural steel furniture, it's
downright ridiculous for the glassworkers.

"Artists" in the UK in recent years have been feted and paid huge
prices for what is by and large self-centred crap (Emin, I mean you).
Crafts people OTOH are those who "work with their hands" and are thus
considered stupid. Hangovers from a rustic past, but there are no more
sheep for us to herd in Wessex, and we're too stupid to become car
mechanics.

I have a workshed, BTW.

--
Do whales have krillfiles ?

cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to Andy Dingley on 16/01/2004 7:27 PM

16/01/2004 7:45 PM

Andy Dingley writes:

>Does the US have a distinction between "Arts" and "Crafts" ?

Oh, yeah.

>"Artists" in the UK in recent years have been feted and paid huge
>prices for what is by and large self-centred crap (Emin, I mean you).
>Crafts people OTOH are those who "work with their hands" and are thus
>considered stupid. Hangovers from a rustic past, but there are no more
>sheep for us to herd in Wessex, and we're too stupid to become car
>mechanics.

Or can't afford the equipment: my father was an auto mechanic and died leaving
about $900 worth of wrenches and other tools (timing light, feeler gauges,
etc.). Today, the smaller computers for engine work run maybe $50,000.

Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html

mE

[email protected] (Everett M. Greene)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 6:14 PM

Silvan <[email protected]> writes:
> Andy Dingley wrote:
>
> >>Yeah, like this new term "metrosexual" for guys that pay too much
> >>attention to how they look. When I was a kid, they were called "pansies".
> >
> > You're missing the point. "metrosexuals" are completely straight, but
> > they've taken on some of the trappings that were traditionally the
> > preserve (in the mid-century anyway) of gay men. "Pansies" are still
> > there, but it's a whole different group.
>
> Dunno about where Doug lives, but here, the term "pansy" doesn't have to
> mean homosexual. It can, but doesn't have to. A pansy is, well, I suppose
> our modern American equivalent of what you used to (and maybe still do)
> call a "fop." Some of them are gay, some of them aren't.

In the Rocky Mountain area and to the eastward, a pansy
was a wimp -- someone without the fortitude for the task
at hand. Of course, in my younger days, the pansy was
the one who wouldn't do the stupid thing that the others
were doing (or talking about doing). "Hey, watch this!"

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

18/01/2004 12:39 AM

Robert Bonomi wrote:

> Thus, the place where I construct sawdust is named:
>
> Canta Forda WoodWorking Studio

I can't afford one either.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

d

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 7:42 PM

Andy Dingley wrote:
> Does the US have a distinction between "Arts" and "Crafts" ?
> In the UK, this is a huge separation. Crafts people laugh at artists
> and their frivolity, artists won't even let us in the building, let
> alone the gallery opening. There's a shared studio space in town that
> I'd _love_ to be working in, but as a "craft" furniture maker, the
> "artists" there just won't rent to craftspeople.

That's a very interesting question, and hard to answer. We have Artists
of the sort that you have, but we also have "Crafts" people who are much
like them, hence Artsy-Crafty. We have craftsmen, fewer every year, and
turners, and cabinetmakers also declining in numbers as professionals
but increasing as hobbyists. Some of the latter show up in "Craft
Fairs/Shows" routinely and in some places share spaces with the hobbyist
artists. I'm not sure, at all, that its the same all over the US. In
many ways the East and Left coasts are different countries and neither
is like the Midwest. Local feelings may welll be different. At least
that's my viewpoint. Yup, shop, and plans, not patterns or studio.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

d

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 9:29 PM

Bay Area Dave wrote:
> Dave, "East & Left", as opposed to "Right & West"?

Oddly enough, it does seem to shake out much like that. It's a strange
world. Speaking of which, I was told, and I may have lost a leg here,
that in SF if you can't make bail the city will do it for you. Is that
for real?? What's the point of bail. I'd disbelieve it except for some
of the strange rulings I've seen come out of that circuit court.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

xD

[email protected] (Dave Mundt)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 8:31 PM

Greetings and Saluations.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>
>
>dave
>
I call my shop the workshop when I mention I am
going to go out and do something in it. I call it the
"studio" when I am selling items made in it.
Amazing how something made in a studio is worth
SO much more than something made in a shop.
(*smile*).
Regards
Dave Mundt

d

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

18/01/2004 5:25 PM

"Traves W. Coppock" wrote:
> "prissy"...hmmm must be the PC way to say it nowadays?

Don't wanna get sued these days. BTW, How do you pronounce your name?
I figured that it was the same as Travis, but I heard it pronounced
Travs. OT, I know, but it's beeen bugging me.
Dave (standard enunciation) in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

d

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

20/01/2004 3:41 PM

"Traves W. Coppock" shed light upon a murky world with:
> yep its Travis with an E...say it the same.
> and lemme tell ya, it was a PITA growing up with that spelling, and it
> continues to this day. . .
> its been pronounced Trayvs, travs, and once in a blue moon, Travis.
> but i can honestly say, i am the only one i have ever seen spelled
> this way...might have been my dads fault,,,he cant spell worth a damn!
> hehe

That's what I figured, thanks. It was from the Woodworking magazine on
a DVD, BTW. Yeah I can see how that might grow a fast pair of hands on
you coming up.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

Ss

"Steve"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

20/01/2004 11:32 AM

Actually, I work in more of a lair.


"Traves W. Coppock" <newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:25:57 GMT, [email protected] Crawled out of the
> shop and said. . .:
>
> >"Traves W. Coppock" wrote:
> >> "prissy"...hmmm must be the PC way to say it nowadays?
> >
> >Don't wanna get sued these days. BTW, How do you pronounce your name?
> >I figured that it was the same as Travis, but I heard it pronounced
> >Travs. OT, I know, but it's beeen bugging me.
> >Dave (standard enunciation) in Fairfax
>
>
> yep its Travis with an E...say it the same.
> and lemme tell ya, it was a PITA growing up with that spelling, and it
> continues to this day. . .
> its been pronounced Trayvs, travs, and once in a blue moon, Travis.
>
> but i can honestly say, i am the only one i have ever seen spelled
> this way...might have been my dads fault,,,he cant spell worth a damn!
> hehe

dD

[email protected] (Dick Durbin)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 11:46 AM

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/home/7720321.htm

Maybe my wife would have more respect for my hobby if I called the
gara...er, shop a studio. I could tell her I'm an artist. Yeah,
that's the ticket. Then, when things don't come out exactly right I
could sniff at her, "You wouldn't criticize Monet because his
paintings lack detail. I call my pieces Impressionist Furniture; you
don't want to look to closely."

Dick Durbin

gG

[email protected] (Gary Greenberg)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 7:01 AM

Joe Gorman <[email protected]> wrote:
> C wrote:
> >>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> >>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
> > Hmmm...
> > "shop" is virile
> > "studio" is gay?
> Shed $10
> Shop $100
> Studio $1000
> I think we've had this discussion before.
> Joe

A studio, to me, connotes a place where creativity is as much a part of
the production as mastery of that production itself with the CAVEAT
that we're talking about a place that's Earned the right to be
called a studio--like when you see the woodwork and feel the
wind being sucked out of your lungs with a "Damn,...." pulling it along.

Webster's defines Studio as: The working room of an artist.
In this case, I think `studio' is being used instead of shop because
he produces both art and furniture and his furniture is a work of art.

The reality is that IF any of us discussing this
built furniture as well as Heitzman does,
we could call our place of production whatever we want
and charge whatever we want 'cause the market is there for it.
I'd love to be that good!

By the way, mine's a shop ;-}

Cheers,
Gary

TW

Traves W. Coppock

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

18/01/2004 5:02 AM

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:33:30 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

><rubs eyes>
>
>Traves, is that really you?
>
>Good to read you again, didja get lost in that truck of yours?
>
>Greg
>

its me!

lol no,,,just trying to keep myself in the shop and with the misses a
bit more often. . . got a few of my priorities in order,,,,lol

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 1:40 AM

Andy Dingley wrote:

>>Yeah, like this new term "metrosexual" for guys that pay too much
>>attention to how they look. When I was a kid, they were called "pansies".
>
> You're missing the point. "metrosexuals" are completely straight, but
> they've taken on some of the trappings that were traditionally the
> preserve (in the mid-century anyway) of gay men. "Pansies" are still
> there, but it's a whole different group.

Dunno about where Doug lives, but here, the term "pansy" doesn't have to
mean homosexual. It can, but doesn't have to. A pansy is, well, I suppose
our modern American equivalent of what you used to (and maybe still do)
call a "fop." Some of them are gay, some of them aren't.

> the wild west mining towns. These weren't no "pansies", but they'd
> queue up to listen to the importance of the right lapel and cravat.

Not on *this* side of the pond they didn't. I don't think even the
Kanukistanis know how to "queue up." Most American's probably couldn't
even read the word "queue" correctly. So nyah.

(We "line" up over here.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

bR

[email protected] (Robert Bonomi)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 11:00 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Joe Gorman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>C wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
>>>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>>>
>>>
>>>dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmmm...
>> "shop" is virile
>> "studio" is gay?
>>
>>
>
>Shed $10
>Shop $100
>Studio $1000
>I think we've had this discussion before.
>Joe
>

I'll admit to having (fake Spanish) pretensions of grandeur.

Thus, the place where I construct sawdust is named:

Canta Forda WoodWorking Studio


Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 10:53 AM

You mean you don't call the sh*thouse the "Relief Boutique"?

... get with it, Dude!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/12/04


"Dave W" wrote in message
> About ten years ago we had guests for dinner; we did not know them well
but
> they were nice people. She, trying to be interested in my obsession,
asked
> if she could see my studio after dinner. Unfortunately, I had a mouthful
of
> soup at the time and my shop is DEFINITELY NOT a studio....its a mess.
The
> soup went all over the place as I laughed explosively. No, my shop is not
a
> studio.

MR

Mark

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 4:15 PM



Charles Jones wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
>>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>
>
> The difference is in your product.


Don't you mean the difference is in the type of work you do?

I'm smoking product with my left hand and drinking product
from a product with my right. I'm using product to produce
this product. I just flushed product using rolled product to
wipe product.

God, I hate that word.

/rant

Mark, who has never made a product, everything's had a name.

--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart.
(S. Clemens, A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure
ends the suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 2:19 PM

"Dick Durbin" wrote in message


> I call my pieces Impressionist Furniture; you
> don't want to look to closely."

Damn ... ROTFLMAO!! ... lord, that hurts.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/12/04

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 11:30 PM

In article <mdXNb.71173$5V2.74130@attbi_s53>, "Jerry Gilreath" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You saw that episode of South Park too???

Nope, don't watch much TV. No cable. Never saw any episode of South Park.

>And yup, pansies. My dad still calls 'em fruits.

I remember hearing that growing up, too, but from classmates, not from Dad.

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

CJ

Charles Jones

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 10:27 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...

The difference is in your product. If what you produce is classified as
"Art" then you have a studio. If you produce "Functional" pieces, then
you have a shop. Dunno what you have if your art is functional! :-)
Confused?

SWMBO is into pottery, and on occasion I help her with a project. In
reading some of the literature from that field I see the same
distinction, although less prevalent. If you make functional ware then
you have a "Pottery", but the art producers have a Studio.

Ohhhhh!

CharlesJ
--
========================================================================
Charles Jones | Works at HP, | email: [email protected]
Hewlett-Packard | doesn't speak | ICQ: 29610755
Loveland, Colorado | for HP | AIM: LovelandCharles
USA | |Jabber: [email protected]

CJ

Charles Jones

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

20/01/2004 9:58 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Charles Jones wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >
> >>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> >>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
> >
> > The difference is in your product.
>
> Don't you mean the difference is in the type of work you do?

At first, I read this then shrugged off the rant and passed on. Then,
as I thought about it more I realized that I disagree with the assertion
that "type of work" and "product" are equivalent.

In my opinion, of course, "type of work" is a more general term. It
addresses all that I do, whether for commercial gain or for personal
enjoyment. "Product" speaks more specifically to the physical things
that I produce for sale. This distinction was firmly in mind when I
wrote the sentence quoted above and its snipped companions.

Besides, I see your "Product" and I will raise you a "Going forward" :-)

> God, I hate that word.

Jeez, the only word I have ever hated is "Tax" ...

CharlesJ
--
========================================================================
Charles Jones | Works at HP, | email: [email protected]
Hewlett-Packard | doesn't speak | ICQ: 29610755
Loveland, Colorado | for HP | AIM: LovelandCharles
USA | |Jabber: [email protected]

jj

jo4hn

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 11:11 PM

> The difference is in your product. If what you produce is classified as
> "Art" then you have a studio. If you produce "Functional" pieces, then
> you have a shop. Dunno what you have if your art is functional! :-)
> Confused?
>
> SWMBO is into pottery, and on occasion I help her with a project. In
> reading some of the literature from that field I see the same
> distinction, although less prevalent. If you make functional ware then
> you have a "Pottery", but the art producers have a Studio.
>
If you make stoneware pots, you are a potter. If it's porcelain
figures, you are a ceramicist.
j4 (builder of fine hi-fire kilns and whose ex was both)

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 2:39 AM

I'm dating myself, but yes, I remember "The Life of Riley". Watched it
as a little tyke.

dave

Ron Magen wrote:

> Ah, the eye, or perception, of the beholder.
>
> Does anybody else remember the early TV show, 'Life of Riley' with William
> Bendix ?
> This 'thread' {and YES, it has been 'done' in the past} reminded me of an
> episode. The family had a garage that 'fronted' on an alley behind the
> house. Since they didn't have a car{or some other reason}, they decided to
> rent it for some extra cash. The woman answering the advert talked about
> using it as a 'Gallery'. The wife jumped on it immediately, signing her to a
> contract, and stating to the family how it would add 'tone' to the
> neighborhood.
>
> Everything goes well until they are invited to the 'opening'. She swings the
> garage door up and it is indeed a 'gallery' . . . a 'Shooting Gallery' -
> just like the ones on the old Atlantic City boardwalk - complete with .22
> 'pump' rifles !!
>
> SURPRISE !!
>
> Regards,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
>
> "Dick Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> SNIP
>
>>Maybe my wife would have more respect for my hobby if I called the
>>gara...er, shop a studio. I could tell her I'm an artist. Yeah,
>>that's the ticket.
>
>
>

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 7:48 PM

Dave, "East & Left", as opposed to "Right & West"?

[email protected] wrote:

ists. I'm not sure, at all, that its the same all over the US. In
> many ways the East and Left coasts are different countries and neither
> is like the Midwest. Local feelings may welll be different. At least
> that's my viewpoint. Yup, shop, and plans, not patterns or studio.
>
> Dave in Fairfax

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 12:45 PM

Thanks for the link, Dave.

To say that I am impressed with Heitzman's craft is an understatement ...The
Maloof influence is apparent, as well as the fact that the Marc Adams School
of Woodworking definitely puts a stamp on its adherents, staff and student
alike.

Wish I could design AND build a dining table in 60 hours! I am designing a
comparatively simple one now, (new page 5 on the site) and have 12 hours
just futzing with the &%&$ CAD program, and haven't even ordered the wood,
or finalized the design.

BTW, the style of writing in the article, if you're from anywhere else in
the world, is so "CAspeak" as to be "notable" ... I started to say
"painful", but decided to be polite. ;>)

Good reading ... thanks for posting the link and bringing it to, IMO,
deserved, attention.

Man, if we could just replace a show with the frequency of DIY's "Warehouse
Whoopdedoo", with a TV series by Heitzman ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
> http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/home/7720321.htm

JG

Joe Gorman

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 2:02 PM



C wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>
>>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
>>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>>
>>
>>dave
>
>
>
> Hmmm...
> "shop" is virile
> "studio" is gay?
>
>

Shed $10
Shop $100
Studio $1000
I think we've had this discussion before.
Joe

DV

Donnie Vazquez

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 2:26 PM

Bay Area Dave wrote:
> You are welcome!
>
> I hadn't heard of him before today. Having lived in CA since '70 I
> didn't notice the "CAspeak".

Must be similar to "DCspeak" because I did notice anything unusual about
it either.

--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD
remove NoSpam from address to reply

SM

"Stephen M"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 3:29 PM

Funny choice or words,

After I built my addition which includes a S-H-O-P over the garage, (which
BTW is a nicely finished space with large windows and a skylight) my father
commented that it If I ever sell the house, the room would make a great
"artist's studio"

Maybe I should be insulted? ;-)

-Steve


cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to "Stephen M" on 16/01/2004 3:29 PM

16/01/2004 10:16 PM

Stephen M notes:

>
>After I built my addition which includes a S-H-O-P over the garage, (which
>BTW is a nicely finished space with large windows and a skylight) my father
>commented that it If I ever sell the house, the room would make a great
>"artist's studio"
>
>Maybe I should be insulted? ;-)
>

Probably not. My shop IS a studio. It's where I shoot photos for books and
articles. Right now, that's a 16' x 21' garage with a single circuit, and far
too many tools, light stands, tripod and such crap to make moving around much
fun. And it's unheated. When I get home--the Realtor is holding an open house
Sunday, so y'all keep your fingers crossed--I'll have a real shop that I can
also call a studio.

But it will still be a mess, though it has probably 15 circuits.

Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 5:47 PM

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/home/7720321.htm



Swingman wrote:

> "Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
>
>
>>Are you implying that anyone who chooses to use the term "studio" when
>>referring to their wood shop is being prissy? :) When I think of
>>"studio" I think of Paramount or MGM or an artist's loft in SF, or a
>>photographer's studio.
>
>
>>BTW: I'm not knocking the guy in the article; his work is uncommonly
>>extraordinary. I'd love to own one of his pieces.
>
>
> I saw your reference to the newspaper article, but unfortunately don't have
> access to it. Got a url where one can read it?
>

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 4:55 PM

Are you implying that anyone who chooses to use the term "studio" when
referring to their wood shop is being prissy? :) When I think of
"studio" I think of Paramount or MGM or an artist's loft in SF, or a
photographer's studio.

BTW: I'm not knocking the guy in the article; his work is uncommonly
extraordinary. I'd love to own one of his pieces.

dave

dave

Swingman wrote:

> You mean you don't call the sh*thouse the "Relief Boutique"?
>
> ... get with it, Dude!
>

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 8:29 PM

Dave W wrote:

> soup went all over the place as I laughed explosively. No, my shop is not
> a studio.

Hee... I can see myself in a similar spot. It's not a shop, it's a shed.
Oh. Um. It's not a shed, it's a shop!

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

KE

"K.-Benoit Evans"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 9:19 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Joe Gorman <[email protected]> wrote:


> Shed $10
> Shop $100
> Studio $1000
> I think we've had this discussion before.
> Joe
>

I think you are right that often the choice of a word for a workplace is
based on the perceived or desired value of what is produced.

While it is true that strictly speaking a "studio" is a place where a
painter, sculptor or photographer works, the word is in fact used by
others.

Google gives about 97,000 (97 thousand) hits for the exact expression
"woodworking studio". Some of the references are to woodworking schools
that call themselves "studios", some are to workshops used by very
serious and (I suppose) esthetically advanced woodworkers and some are
just workshops that can be rented or shared with others.

The question is where to draw the line between the "fine arts" and the
"useful arts". Generally the fine arts so not involve creations designed
to fulfill some utilitarian function. However, there is certainly
artistry involved in designing and building furniture and there is a
level of work where a unique design and its realization in wood is more
than mere craftsmanship (which while noble and praiseworthy is usually
derivative and not highly creative in the way a painting or scupture is.

Basically, those who say "woodworking studio" are emphasizing the fine
arts aspect of their work either because such woodworkers are artists or
because they want customers and critics to think they are, thus
increasing the value of their work.

As for those who have suggested in various ways that "woodworking shop"
is the manly, viril, macho word and "ww studio" the gay, pansy, fruity
word, well hey boys, when you get a little older and a bit more mature
maybe you'll put aside such childish musings.

--
Regards,

Benoit Evans

KE

"K.-Benoit Evans"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 9:22 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> You mean you don't call the sh*thouse the "Relief Boutique"?
>
> ... get with it, Dude!

No, but then I don't invite strangers into my toilet to admire the form
and colour of my "creations" and (if they have enough money) take one
home with them or commission me to make a special one just for them.

--
Regards,

Benoit Evans

JG

"Jerry Gilreath"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 7:47 PM

You saw that episode of South Park too???
And yup, pansies. My dad still calls 'em fruits.

--
"Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
Homer Simpson
Jerry© The Phoneman®
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, C
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> >> woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>
> >It's all about newspeak.
> >
> [snip]
> >
> >We all do it, we speak in embellishing ways. A rose is a rose is a rose
> >until it becomes something special with a moniker descriptive or each
> >hybrid.
>
> Yeah, like this new term "metrosexual" for guys that pay too much
attention to
> how they look. When I was a kid, they were called "pansies".
>
> --
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for
Miss America?

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

20/01/2004 5:30 PM

Charles Jones wrote:

>> God, I hate that word.
>
> Jeez, the only word I have ever hated is "Tax" ...

The only word I hate is "eunuch."

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 6:53 PM

You are welcome!

I hadn't heard of him before today. Having lived in CA since '70 I
didn't notice the "CAspeak".

I too thought the 60 hours was pretty quick, but then again maybe for
him it was a "simple" piece. Like something that I couldn't build
before the sun grows cold.

Seeing him creating such masterpieces in his STUDIO, on TV, would be a
darn sight better than TOH, huh? I might even upgrade my basic cable for
the premium channels to see him.

dave

Swingman wrote:

> Thanks for the link, Dave.
>
> To say that I am impressed with Heitzman's craft is an understatement ...The
> Maloof influence is apparent, as well as the fact that the Marc Adams School
> of Woodworking definitely puts a stamp on its adherents, staff and student
> alike.
>
> Wish I could design AND build a dining table in 60 hours! I am designing a
> comparatively simple one now, (new page 5 on the site) and have 12 hours
> just futzing with the &%&$ CAD program, and haven't even ordered the wood,
> or finalized the design.
>
> BTW, the style of writing in the article, if you're from anywhere else in
> the world, is so "CAspeak" as to be "notable" ... I started to say
> "painful", but decided to be polite. ;>)
>
> Good reading ... thanks for posting the link and bringing it to, IMO,
> deserved, attention.
>
> Man, if we could just replace a show with the frequency of DIY's "Warehouse
> Whoopdedoo", with a TV series by Heitzman ...
>

Cb

C

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 11:04 AM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:

> Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>
>
> dave


It's all about newspeak.

"shop" sounds less classy than "studio".

Give them what they are looking for (in this case, "studio") and you can
get more for your work.

We all do it, we speak in embellishing ways. A rose is a rose is a rose
until it becomes something special with a moniker descriptive or each
hybrid.

Cb

C

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 11:06 AM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:29 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:

> Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>
>
> dave


Hmmm...
"shop" is virile
"studio" is gay?

Cb

C

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 9:42 PM

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:39:40 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:

> I'm dating myself, but yes, I remember "The Life of Riley". Watched it
> as a little tyke


I know another fellow who used to date himself until he found the perfect
woman. Now he wishes he were still dating himself.

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 2:38 AM

you are talking about the 9th Circuit. don't get me started on THAT
subject!

dave

[email protected] wrote:

> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>>Dave, "East & Left", as opposed to "Right & West"?
>
>
> Oddly enough, it does seem to shake out much like that. It's a strange
> world. Speaking of which, I was told, and I may have lost a leg here,
> that in SF if you can't make bail the city will do it for you. Is that
> for real?? What's the point of bail. I'd disbelieve it except for some
> of the strange rulings I've seen come out of that circuit court.
>
> Dave in Fairfax

AD

Andy Dingley

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 7:21 PM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:29:31 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>Yeah, like this new term "metrosexual" for guys that pay too much attention to
>how they look. When I was a kid, they were called "pansies".

You're missing the point. "metrosexuals" are completely straight, but
they've taken on some of the trappings that were traditionally the
preserve (in the mid-century anyway) of gay men. "Pansies" are still
there, but it's a whole different group.

Interestingly, if you go back to around 1900, the straight dandy who
paid incredible attention to their grooming and dress was in evidence
back then. Not gay, just showy. It's one of those thing that goes in
phases - homosexuality is always around (sometimes more obvious and
distinctive than at others), but the attraction of extravagant male
dress is cyclic.

Don't forget that Oscar Wilde's speaking tour of the USA, espousing
the joys of the "aesthetic" movement, went right out to the wildest of
the wild west mining towns. These weren't no "pansies", but they'd
queue up to listen to the importance of the right lapel and cravat.

--
Do whales have krillfiles ?

cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to Andy Dingley on 16/01/2004 7:21 PM

16/01/2004 7:43 PM

Andy Dingley responds:

snip

>Interestingly, if you go back to around 1900, the straight dandy who
>paid incredible attention to their grooming and dress was in evidence
>back then. Not gay, just showy. It's one of those thing that goes in
>phases - homosexuality is always around (sometimes more obvious and
>distinctive than at others), but the attraction of extravagant male
>dress is cyclic.

Goes at least back to Beau Brummel (1768 to 1840), so the 1900 cycle was a
later one. I'd guess that it goes back a lot further, and one could find
examples of Roman togas with extra draping, or Greek jockstraps with special
embroidery (what the hell did classical Greeks wear, anyway?).

Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html

TW

Traves W. Coppock

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

19/01/2004 9:37 PM

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:25:57 GMT, [email protected] Crawled out of the
shop and said. . .:

>"Traves W. Coppock" wrote:
>> "prissy"...hmmm must be the PC way to say it nowadays?
>
>Don't wanna get sued these days. BTW, How do you pronounce your name?
>I figured that it was the same as Travis, but I heard it pronounced
>Travs. OT, I know, but it's beeen bugging me.
>Dave (standard enunciation) in Fairfax


yep its Travis with an E...say it the same.
and lemme tell ya, it was a PITA growing up with that spelling, and it
continues to this day. . .
its been pronounced Trayvs, travs, and once in a blue moon, Travis.

but i can honestly say, i am the only one i have ever seen spelled
this way...might have been my dads fault,,,he cant spell worth a damn!
hehe

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

21/01/2004 4:11 AM

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:30:48 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Charles Jones wrote:
>
>>> God, I hate that word.
>>
>> Jeez, the only word I have ever hated is "Tax" ...
>
>The only word I hate is "eunuch."

Not the word, but the way she says it "No."


--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 1:42 AM

C wrote:

> I know another fellow who used to date himself until he found the perfect
> woman. Now he wishes he were still dating himself.

He probably still *is*.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Bn

Bridger

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

17/01/2004 10:23 AM

On 17 Jan 2004 07:01:47 -0800, [email protected] (Gary Greenberg) wrote:

>Joe Gorman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> C wrote:
>> >>Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
>> >>woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>> > Hmmm...
>> > "shop" is virile
>> > "studio" is gay?
>> Shed $10
>> Shop $100
>> Studio $1000
>> I think we've had this discussion before.
>> Joe
>
>A studio, to me, connotes a place where creativity is as much a part of
>the production as mastery of that production itself with the CAVEAT
>that we're talking about a place that's Earned the right to be
>called a studio--like when you see the woodwork and feel the
>wind being sucked out of your lungs with a "Damn,...." pulling it along.
>
>Webster's defines Studio as: The working room of an artist.
>In this case, I think `studio' is being used instead of shop because
>he produces both art and furniture and his furniture is a work of art.
>
>The reality is that IF any of us discussing this
>built furniture as well as Heitzman does,
>we could call our place of production whatever we want
>and charge whatever we want 'cause the market is there for it.
>I'd love to be that good!
>
>By the way, mine's a shop ;-}
>
>Cheers,
>Gary






having lived in too many "studio" apartments and now having a house
that is bigger than I really need and a building to work in that is
bigger than any of those "studio" apartments, I call that building in
the back yard a shop. it has nothing to do with needing to assert my
masculinity. heh, my masculinity asserts itself : ^ )
Bridger

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

20/01/2004 5:29 PM

Traves W. Coppock <newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com> wrote:

> yep its Travis with an E...say it the same.

Wow. It took me a long time to get around to answering this message.

I started answering it last night. I was most of the way done when my dog
freaked out and ran under the computer desk. He hit the power switch.

I lost the message, and the computer. The damn thing had been running for
several months uninterrupted 24/7 without a hitch, and it up and died after
being shut off last night.

I spent hours and hours swapping parts around. Three computers in the
house, none of them running.

Mine is DOA. Best I can tell, the motherboard took a dump for absolutely no
reason. Under no circumstances should powering off a computer via the damn
off switch kill it, but that's exactly what happened. Some component was
going, I guess, and the power cycle killed it, like a light bulb almost
always burning out when you turn it on.

So after swapping parts back around, I was luckily finally able to get
something to work, but it sure isn't pleasant.

I started answering this message on a 1 GHz Athlon system. Old by today's
standards, but it was a nice enough machine. Now I'm using a hybrid. The
RAM from my computer, and my hard drive, grafted into some old POS Gateway
computer someone was throwing away, which I had intended to use as a
diskless workstation on my LAN.

Now this old POS is my *server*. Though there's currently nothing to serve.
I won't be using it as a terminal, and the other terminal needs a power
supply. The old server is more usless than my Crapsman router, and that's
really sad.

It's a screaming Pentium II 233. It's not as bad as I thought it would be,
but I'm not exactly thrilled either. Luckily it was modern enough that I
could drop my hard drive and RAM into it, or it wouldn't be tolerable at
all. As it turned out, once I got in via a rescue disc to rearrange /etc
fstab and recompile my kernel for this piece of crap processor (Intel, you
suck!), everything worked. The video card is of the same general flavor as
my newer one, and the same driver works. Linux adjusted itself to
everything else with perfect aplomb, and it just booted and started working
once I could boot it.

Even still, it was a hell of a lot of trouble, and it was all your fault,
Traves.

I forgot what I was going to say to you last night.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

TW

Traves W. Coppock

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

18/01/2004 2:47 AM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:55:39 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

>Are you implying that anyone who chooses to use the term "studio" when
>referring to their wood shop is being prissy? :) When I think of
>"studio" I think of Paramount or MGM or an artist's loft in SF, or a
>photographer's studio.
>

snip


"prissy"...hmmm must be the PC way to say it nowadays?

RM

"Ron Magen"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 10:23 PM

Ah, the eye, or perception, of the beholder.

Does anybody else remember the early TV show, 'Life of Riley' with William
Bendix ?
This 'thread' {and YES, it has been 'done' in the past} reminded me of an
episode. The family had a garage that 'fronted' on an alley behind the
house. Since they didn't have a car{or some other reason}, they decided to
rent it for some extra cash. The woman answering the advert talked about
using it as a 'Gallery'. The wife jumped on it immediately, signing her to a
contract, and stating to the family how it would add 'tone' to the
neighborhood.

Everything goes well until they are invited to the 'opening'. She swings the
garage door up and it is indeed a 'gallery' . . . a 'Shooting Gallery' -
just like the ones on the old Atlantic City boardwalk - complete with .22
'pump' rifles !!

SURPRISE !!

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Dick Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
> Maybe my wife would have more respect for my hobby if I called the
> gara...er, shop a studio. I could tell her I'm an artist. Yeah,
> that's the ticket.

DW

"Dave W"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 11:25 AM

About ten years ago we had guests for dinner; we did not know them well but
they were nice people. She, trying to be interested in my obsession, asked
if she could see my studio after dinner. Unfortunately, I had a mouthful of
soup at the time and my shop is DEFINITELY NOT a studio....its a mess. The
soup went all over the place as I laughed explosively. No, my shop is not a
studio.
Dave in Maine


"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about a famous
> woodworker. He doesn't create his pieces in a shop...
>
>
> dave
>

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 3:22 PM

16/01/2004 11:06 AM

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message

> Are you implying that anyone who chooses to use the term "studio" when
> referring to their wood shop is being prissy? :) When I think of
> "studio" I think of Paramount or MGM or an artist's loft in SF, or a
> photographer's studio.

> BTW: I'm not knocking the guy in the article; his work is uncommonly
> extraordinary. I'd love to own one of his pieces.

I saw your reference to the newspaper article, but unfortunately don't have
access to it. Got a url where one can read it?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/12/04


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