nt

natureworks

24/09/2011 11:37 AM

Stop burning and burying of local trees and wood - we the people petition

We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
http://wh.gov/g05

Thank you


This topic has 28 replies

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

29/09/2011 11:10 AM

Twayne wrote:
>>
>> If the wood had any more value, it wouldn't be used for
>> firewood.
>
> No thanks; I's rather see somethinig to replace petroleum
> reserces/renewal.

Um... why?


> Wood is better to burn than oil etc..

The energy content of wood is minuscule compared to petroleum products.
Burning wood is why there are few forests in Europe. They were all converted
to charcoal during the Middle Ages.

kk

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

02/10/2011 11:47 AM

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 18:22:09 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>
>>>> The energy content of wood is minuscule compared to petroleum
>>>> products. Burning wood is why there are few forests in Europe. They
>>>> were all converted to charcoal during the Middle Ages.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They are paying dearly now. I happen to be in Italy right now. Heating
>>> oil is the same price as diesel at the pump. I paid $7.64 a
>>> gallon yesterday. Typical home temperatures in winter are about 60
>>> degrees.
>>
>> And of that $7.64, approximately $1.00 went for the gas. The rest was
>> taxes.
>
>You mean like the 15% of income they pay for free medical care?
>
"pay for free medical care"

Gotta love it.

FH

Father Haskell

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

26/09/2011 7:28 PM

On Sep 24, 2:37=A0pm, natureworks <[email protected]> wrote:
> We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
> most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
> the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
> daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
> diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:http://wh.g=
ov/g05
>
> Thank you

If the wood had any more value, it wouldn't be used for firewood.

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 6:36 PM

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT), natureworks
<[email protected]> wrote:

>We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
>most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
>the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
>daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
>diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
>http://wh.gov/g05
>
>Thank you

Wow, _9_ whole signatures on that thing already? <snort>

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

FH

Father Haskell

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

28/09/2011 1:17 PM

On Sep 28, 9:33=A0am, "Twayne" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Innews:[email protected],
> Father Haskell <[email protected]> typed:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 24, 2:37 pm, natureworks <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that
> >> concerns me the
> >> most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to
> >> make energy for
> >> the moment and calling it green energy or using it as
> >> alternative
> >> daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also
> >> classified a green
> >> diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People
> >> Petition:http://wh.gov/g05
>
> >> Thank you
>
> > If the wood had any more value, it wouldn't be used for
> > firewood.
>
> No thanks; I's rather see somethinig to replace petroleum reserces/renewa=
l.
> Wood is better to burn than oil etc..

Lots full of fast-growing weed trees would be a possibility.
Dunno which species would burn well and clean.

Coppice -- saplings arising from tree stumps -- were
once a popular, renewable fuel source. Hack them down,
and more grow back to take their place.

JW

Just Wondering

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

25/09/2011 1:26 AM

On 9/24/2011 1:42 PM, HeyBub wrote:
>
> The Monty Python folks had a skit once showing a meeting of the Committee to
> Stack Things Atop Other Things ("We have here a correspondence from the
> Coldstream branch. During the past week, they have managed to stack ELEVEN
> things on top of other things!" "Hear, hear!").
>

Thanx for the tip. I hadn't seen it before, but here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f-kfRREA8M

JW

Just Wondering

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

25/09/2011 7:43 PM

On 9/24/2011 10:56 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Wow, _9_ whole signatures on that thing already?<snort>
>
> You can get more signatures on a petition to ban dihydrogen
> monoxide. (Which I suspect this is an example of.)
>
I'm more concerned about the movement to ban pointy sticks.

ME

Martin Eastburn

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 9:31 PM

They are bio-mass. We just got one up and running.

Since there are fires in the forest around here - and tree farms -
Burnt trees are not useful in wood industry or paper. The carbon
and the hard resins are the evil parts.

So they are sent to the biomass plant to be ground up.

Also the city cuts trees - they go there not ground fill or compost
piles if the piles are ample for the year.

We ourselves have oak that we burn but the sweetgum and pine we won't.

Might use splinters of pine to light a fire but not a log or bolt.

The Bio-mass plant can burn any wood fuel coal fuel and gas fuel.
It is a state of the art plant. We are lucky to have the booster
close in as the hurricanes blow over thousands of trees a year -
those are normally burned in the field - smoke and all.
Far better in a biomass as it burns hot and scrubs the exhaust
for anything that might escape the recycled exhaust.

Consider the wood in the field - rotting and termites which produce
more ozone gas as they digest the trees to nothing.

Martin

On 9/24/2011 8:36 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT), natureworks
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
>> most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
>> the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
>> daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
>> diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
>> http://wh.gov/g05
>>
>> Thank you
>
> Wow, _9_ whole signatures on that thing already?<snort>
>
> --
> If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
> surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
> if you don't yell going through the door.
> -- Lois McMaster Bujold

MM

"Mike Marlow"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

29/09/2011 1:15 PM

HeyBub wrote:
> Twayne wrote:
>>>
>>> If the wood had any more value, it wouldn't be used for
>>> firewood.
>>
>> No thanks; I's rather see somethinig to replace petroleum
>> reserces/renewal.
>
> Um... why?
>
>
>> Wood is better to burn than oil etc..
>
> The energy content of wood is minuscule compared to petroleum
> products. Burning wood is why there are few forests in Europe. They
> were all converted to charcoal during the Middle Ages.

The cost of wood as a heating source is minuscule compared to petroleum
products. Burning wood is only a small part of why there are few forests in
Europe. Wood was used for far more than heat during the middle ages.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

EP

"Ed Pawlowski"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

29/09/2011 8:08 PM


"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> The energy content of wood is minuscule compared to petroleum products.
> Burning wood is why there are few forests in Europe. They were all
> converted to charcoal during the Middle Ages.
>

They are paying dearly now. I happen to be in Italy right now. Heating oil
is the same price as diesel at the pump. I paid $7.64 a gallon yesterday.
Typical home temperatures in winter are about 60 degrees.


Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

01/10/2011 8:34 AM

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> The energy content of wood is minuscule compared to petroleum
>> products. Burning wood is why there are few forests in Europe. They
>> were all converted to charcoal during the Middle Ages.
>>
>
> They are paying dearly now. I happen to be in Italy right now. Heating
> oil is the same price as diesel at the pump. I paid $7.64 a
> gallon yesterday. Typical home temperatures in winter are about 60
> degrees.

And of that $7.64, approximately $1.00 went for the gas. The rest was taxes.

EP

"Ed Pawlowski"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

02/10/2011 6:22 PM


"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> The energy content of wood is minuscule compared to petroleum
>>> products. Burning wood is why there are few forests in Europe. They
>>> were all converted to charcoal during the Middle Ages.
>>>
>>
>> They are paying dearly now. I happen to be in Italy right now. Heating
>> oil is the same price as diesel at the pump. I paid $7.64 a
>> gallon yesterday. Typical home temperatures in winter are about 60
>> degrees.
>
> And of that $7.64, approximately $1.00 went for the gas. The rest was
> taxes.

You mean like the 15% of income they pay for free medical care?

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 5:46 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT), natureworks
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
> >most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
> >the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
> >daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
> >diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
> >http://wh.gov/g05
> >
> >Thank you
>
> "So show your support for closing all landfills and shutting down all
> incinerators in 5 years,"
>
> You're kidding, right?

Somebody want to buy him a ticket to Naples so he can see how that works
out?

GR

Gerald Ross

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

25/09/2011 7:28 AM

Josepi wrote:
> Banning matches and lighters may help your cause.
>
>

I have it on good authority that they are not going to make matches
any longer.


--
Gerald Ross

I went on a 30-day diet - and lost 30 days!





JJ

"Josepi"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 5:50 PM

Banning matches and lighters may help your cause.

-----------------------
"natureworks" wrote in message
news:732c802e-181d-48cf-90e9-48ac7d2d993c@k15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
http://wh.gov/g05

Thank you

mI

"m II"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

30/09/2011 8:33 AM

Nice troll!

OK I'm a sucker for a well placed typo...LOL

http://www.google.ca/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCA273&=&q=gallons+to+litres&oq=gallon&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=833l2159l0l5364l6l6l0l0l0l0l461l1871l2-3.2.1l6l0

Does the US even have a litre?


---------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
3.875 liters. I converted to US gallons and US dollars. They sell by
the
liter and price by the Euro. Right now it is Euro1.44 to Eero1.54
depending
on location. The Euro today is 1.354, better than it has been for
months.

--------------------
"Eric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
How big is their gallon?

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

25/09/2011 7:15 PM

On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:43:43 -0600, Just Wondering
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/24/2011 10:56 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> Larry Jaques<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow, _9_ whole signatures on that thing already?<snort>
>>
>> You can get more signatures on a petition to ban dihydrogen
>> monoxide. (Which I suspect this is an example of.)
>>
> I'm more concerned about the movement to ban pointy sticks.

I'm against all three. Petitions, that is.

--
[Television is] the triumph of machine over people.
-- Fred Allen

EP

"Ed Pawlowski"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

30/09/2011 8:37 AM


"Eric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> They are paying dearly now. I happen to be in Italy right now. Heating
> oil
> is the same price as diesel at the pump. I paid $7.64 a gallon
> yesterday.
> Typical home temperatures in winter are about 60 degrees.
>
> =======
>
> How big is their gallon?
>

3.875 liters. I converted to US gallons and US dollars. They sell by the
liter and price by the Euro. Right now it is Euro1.44 to Eero1.54 depending
on location. The Euro today is 1.354, better than it has been for months.

mI

"m II"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

25/09/2011 8:58 AM

That substance is found everywhere and governments will not hear of
"doing anything about it".

Their hands are tied so the subject is moot anyway.

-------------

"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Wow, _9_ whole signatures on that thing already? <snort>

You can get more signatures on a petition to ban dihydrogen
monoxide. (Which I suspect this is an example of.)

--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 6:37 PM

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 15:10:19 -0400, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT), natureworks
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
>>most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
>>the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
>>daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
>>diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
>>http://wh.gov/g05
>>
>>Thank you
>
>"So show your support for closing all landfills and shutting down all
>incinerators in 5 years,"
>
>You're kidding, right?

Must be an alternative vegan diet thing. Let 'em go for it!

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

fE

[email protected] (Edward A. Falk)

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

25/09/2011 4:56 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Wow, _9_ whole signatures on that thing already? <snort>

You can get more signatures on a petition to ban dihydrogen
monoxide. (Which I suspect this is an example of.)

--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Ee

"Eric"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

25/09/2011 3:14 PM



"m II" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

That substance is found everywhere and governments will not hear of
"doing anything about it".

Their hands are tied so the subject is moot anyway.

-------------

"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Wow, _9_ whole signatures on that thing already? <snort>

You can get more signatures on a petition to ban dihydrogen
monoxide. (Which I suspect this is an example of.)

--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

================

Dihydrogen monoxide matters should not be taken lightly. It extremely
affects every living creature on this planet.

--

Eric

Tn

"Twayne"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

28/09/2011 9:33 AM

In news:[email protected],
Father Haskell <[email protected]> typed:
> On Sep 24, 2:37 pm, natureworks <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that
>> concerns me the
>> most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to
>> make energy for
>> the moment and calling it green energy or using it as
>> alternative
>> daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also
>> classified a green
>> diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People
>> Petition:http://wh.gov/g05
>>
>> Thank you
>
> If the wood had any more value, it wouldn't be used for
> firewood.

No thanks; I's rather see somethinig to replace petroleum reserces/renewal.
Wood is better to burn than oil etc..

EE

"Eric"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

29/09/2011 9:44 PM



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
They are paying dearly now. I happen to be in Italy right now. Heating oil
is the same price as diesel at the pump. I paid $7.64 a gallon yesterday.
Typical home temperatures in winter are about 60 degrees.

=======

How big is their gallon?

--

Eric

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 2:42 PM

Nova wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT), natureworks
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me
>> the most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy
>> for the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
>> daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
>> diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
>> http://wh.gov/g05
>>
>> Thank you
>
> "So show your support for closing all landfills and shutting down all
> incinerators in 5 years,"
>
> You're kidding, right?

'Fraid not. But cut him some slack. It not the validity of the mass movement
that attracts him, it is the movement itself that gives meaning to his
otherwise bland existence.

The Monty Python folks had a skit once showing a meeting of the Committee to
Stack Things Atop Other Things ("We have here a correspondence from the
Coldstream branch. During the past week, they have managed to stack ELEVEN
things on top of other things!" "Hear, hear!").

Wish we could get the environmentalists diverted to such a project. It would
serve their personal needs ... as well as ours.

Nn

Nova

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 3:10 PM

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT), natureworks
<[email protected]> wrote:

>We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
>most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
>the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
>daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
>diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
>http://wh.gov/g05
>
>Thank you

"So show your support for closing all landfills and shutting down all
incinerators in 5 years,"

You're kidding, right?
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

PS

"Pete S"

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 5:03 PM

The trees were gonna die and rot someday (if left on the ground) anyway, if
they were not used as building material.
If they rotted (oxidized) naturally the same amount of CO2 would have
been emitted.
If they were buried so deep that they got no biodigestion, they'd fix
carbon and keep CO2 from the atmosphere.
If they were used as building material, they essentially fix carbon as
above.
So, what's the problem?

"We the people" is a bad name for a petition until it is proven that it is
overwhelmingly supported by a VAST majority of knowledgeable folks.

I have heard people say that it's okay to kill cows for meat but not deer,
because cows are ugly and not free to roam, whereas deer are pretty and free
spirits. Go figure. Are you one of them, too?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

"natureworks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:732c802e-181d-48cf-90e9-48ac7d2d993c@k15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> We in this nation waste everything, but one thing that concerns me the
> most is burning good urban wood in an incinerator to make energy for
> the moment and calling it green energy or using it as alternative
> daily cover (ADC) in landfills where it is also classified a green
> diversion. If you agree please sign my We the People Petition:
> http://wh.gov/g05
>
> Thank you

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to natureworks on 24/09/2011 11:37 AM

24/09/2011 6:42 PM

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:03:48 -0500, "Pete S"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The trees were gonna die and rot someday (if left on the ground) anyway, if
>they were not used as building material.
> If they rotted (oxidized) naturally the same amount of CO2 would have
>been emitted.
> If they were buried so deep that they got no biodigestion, they'd fix
>carbon and keep CO2 from the atmosphere.
> If they were used as building material, they essentially fix carbon as
>above.
>So, what's the problem?
>
>"We the people" is a bad name for a petition until it is proven that it is
>overwhelmingly supported by a VAST majority of knowledgeable folks.
>
>I have heard people say that it's okay to kill cows for meat but not deer,
>because cows are ugly and not free to roam, whereas deer are pretty and free
>spirits. Go figure. Are you one of them, too?

Around here, we take our demolition wood, shrubbery, and other green
waste to the JoGro facility. They take sludge from the solid waste
treatment plant, mix it with ground greens and some ammonia, pile it
high, let it cook, and it turns into some really nice non-organic
compost. I use it as mulch in the yard, saving organic compost for my
garden.

Pass the venison, please!

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold


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