Plunge saw choices

Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:30:23 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> So where am I going with this? If you think you will ever need the
>> capacity to rip a standard sheet of plywood I advise to go with the 75. It
>> comes with the 75" track which I always use over the 55" track for cross
>> cutting standard and 60" Baltic birch and you will only need to add the
>> shorter 55" track.
>
> With the caveat that there's number of accessory track sizes one can
> buy to fit most any frequently used lengths. And in addition to those
> accessories tracks, you can cut a longer track (carefully) to any
> length you want to fit specific purposes.

Karl and I found a tool that holds the tracks true while you tighten the
set screws on the rods. Not a Festool item but quick, simple, foolproof,
and expensive. ;-0. IIRC $100.

In article <[email protected]>, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm curious - which Kreg does everyone here have?

I have the Master System and two minis.

--
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to
read. - Groucho Marx

On 1/17/2013 4:30 PM, Han wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/17/2013 3:50 PM, Han wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 1/17/2013 3:07 PM, Han wrote:
>>>>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the
>>>>>>> Kreg
>>>>>>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger
>>>>>>> round swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness
>>>>>>> material with in it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains
>>>>>>> constant at what you set it regardless of thickness being
>>>>>>> clamped. Pretty high quality for this type tool. I got mine at
>>>>>>> a WW show a couple of years ago and will be buying more next go
>>>>>>> round. So easy to use that I use them left handed and I am right
>>>>>>> handed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of
>>>>>> various sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be
>>>>>> buying into that as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair
>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime
>>>>> shipping.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BUT the ones at Amazon do not have the 2" disk one then end like the
>>>> Kreg brand. They only have the pair with the 1" swivel disks. I am
>>>> currently in contact with the manufacturer to see of they can be had
>>>> with the larger disk.. That said, there are ways around that.
>>>
>>> Glue on some bigger pads, perhaps?
>>>
>> Ok! I found the vendor. Looks like an additional $10 for the
>> privileged of having the bigger disk added.
>>
>> http://www.cabinet-hardware-solutions.com/Clamps.html
>
> I'll see what I'll do after the pair I ordered get here.
>

To tell you the truth, these things are a lot like pocket hole screws.
They work well for a lot of outher uses.

I have never used mine for clamping during a pocket hole procedure. You
may be happy with the standard issue. I'll probably get a pair from
Amazon too.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> When I delivered the seat frames to the upholstery shop yesterday, the old
> guy called his workers to look at the frames, and the bar stool I brought
> along so he could see what I wanted ... you would have thought I was from
> outerspace the way they gathered around and ohhh'ed and ahhh'ed ... "You
> mean you really made this chair, really???".
>
Thought you were from outer space, eh? That would explain some things!

I know what you mean about making something that other people/tradesman
don't usually experience. I have had similar experiences. Some creative
design, intelligence and execution is definitely in short supply in this
"modern" world. Not that many craftsman around any more.

"Swingman" wrote:

> I've always been partial to the "vise-grip" type mechanism for quick
> change clamping ... in my childhood I somehow knew a few folks who
> actually used vice grips when their gear shift broke on the steering
> columns of their trucks ... kinda thought they were standard issue
> there for a while.
--------------------------------------------
Years ago when CBS TV was running "On the road" programs on Sunday
morning, they had a contributor who lived in Nebraska and submitted
his
stories under the heading, "Postcards from Nebraska".

One of his "Postcards" was a story about the machine shop who invented
"ViceGrips".

Story went to great lengths to show all the unusual ways they jerry
rigged "ViceGrips" to solve problems.

Most of the odd ball special "ViceGrips" brought to market were an
outgrowth of solving these unique clamping problems in their own shop.

Just another dose of Friday morning trivia.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> One of his "Postcards" was a story about the machine shop who invented
> "ViceGrips".
>
> Story went to great lengths to show all the unusual ways they jerry
> rigged "ViceGrips" to solve problems.
>
> Most of the odd ball special "ViceGrips" brought to market were an
> outgrowth of solving these unique clamping problems in their own shop.
>
Yep, years ago I took a welding class. The instructor, who wrote out
textbook, was a big fan of vicegrips. He had boxes of them modified for
every purpose imaginable. A requirement for certification from his program
was to make up some vice grip "helpers". He was big on jigs and these
modified visegrips really helped out with unusual welding and fabrication
problems. Particularly in the field and welding non square materials. He
even had a few designed for metal artists.

I brought in some visegrips and welded different shapes to them. Also cut
off portions of them and welded extensions to them. I made up several of
them for my own use. I probably saw at least fifty different configurations
of these specialty clamping devices in this class.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/16/2013 8:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> quick, simple, foolproof,
>>> and expensive.
>>
>> Don't look now, Bubba ... but you just described Festool to a "T". :>)
>>
> The discussion being on "tools that work well",
> I have a related question.
>
> In doing pocket-joinery ala Kreg, what helps insures that "nothing slips" when
> finally attaching the 2 pieces of wood with a screw (or screws).

And, more than one way to screw a cat:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopArtsCraftsSofaTable#5793270778907836994

;)

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

MJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> Santa paid a late visit and I ended up holding some cash that
> I want to apply to getting a plunge saw to cut sheet goods. None
> of my current tools work well enough, though to be honest, they
> work ok. I just want something that I don't have to hassle with
> to get a clean and accurate cut.
>
> I'm currently torn between the two Festool models. Of the two,
> I'm thinking EQ 75, but is it worth the extra dough ($175)? I haven't
> worked out the others in the equation (DeWalt, Makita) but understand
> they only offer one model and they are close to the Festool EQ 55.
>
> Does anyone have experience in making this decision and what did
> you decide? Any guidance would be helpful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> MJ

I went through this almost 3 years go. Festool has been making the track
saw for a very long time, while brands are doing the "me too" dance.

I pondered the 55 or the 75. Food for thought. The 55 comes with a 55"
track. Justt long enough to make a close to 90 degree cut on a standard
sheet of plywood, no way for a 60" wide piece of Baltic birch.

The 75 comes with a 75" track. These saws cut well enough to make finish
cuts and I knew that I would be breaking down sheets of plywood with mine
and I do. So eventually I was going to buy another add on track to cut
96". While 55" sounds like it is long enough to cross cut 48", you have to
place it just right to do so. There needs to be over hang the length of
the saw base at the beginning of the cut and about half the base for the
end of the cut.


So where am I going with this? If you think you will ever need the
capacity to rip a standard sheet of plywood I advise to go with the 75. It
comes with the 75" track which I always use over the 55" track for cross
cutting standard and 60" Baltic birch and you will only need to add the
shorter 55" track. The shorter 55" track is significantly less expensive
than the 75" track. I don't recall the exact prices but considering both
the 55 and 75 saw and you buy the extra track to get the 130" capacity the
savings of getting the 55 saw over the 75 saw is about $20. Check the
prices to be sure. Also you will need the 2 bars to attach the tracks to
each other.

On 1/16/2013 8:03 AM, Leon wrote:

> quick, simple, foolproof,
> and expensive.

Don't look now, Bubba ... but you just described Festool to a "T". :>)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:52:13 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionBarStool#5834088508989074738

I purchased a right angle clamp for my pocket screw constructions. It
adds an alternate dimension of clamping when using the Kreg jig.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/shopping/AddViews.aspx?p=61019
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49892&cat=1,180,42311,46275

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:14:11 AM UTC-8, Bill wrote:
> Swingman wrote: > On 1/16/2013 8:03 AM, Leon wrote: > >> quick, simple, f=
oolproof, >> and expensive. > > Don't look now, Bubba ... but you just desc=
ribed Festool to a "T". :>) > The discussion being on "tools that work well=
", I have a related question. In doing pocket-joinery ala Kreg, what helps =
insures that "nothing slips" when finally attaching the 2 pieces of wood wi=
th a screw (or screws). I don't believe that the second piece of wood is no=
rmally drilled, right? Based upon my experience, screwing two pieces of woo=
d together does not yield precise results without more technique (clamps, p=
re-drill, etc.). Is there something remarkable about their screws? Bill

I use an F clamp, a deep bar clamp. Kreg maks a vice grips type thing and s=
ome shops use those band saw table type hold downs and make a little channe=
l in their work benc to accomodate.

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:30:23 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>So where am I going with this? If you think you will ever need the
>capacity to rip a standard sheet of plywood I advise to go with the 75. It
>comes with the 75" track which I always use over the 55" track for cross
>cutting standard and 60" Baltic birch and you will only need to add the
>shorter 55" track.

With the caveat that there's number of accessory track sizes one can
buy to fit most any frequently used lengths. And in addition to those
accessories tracks, you can cut a longer track (carefully) to any
length you want to fit specific purposes.

On 1/16/2013 11:52 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/16/2013 10:14 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> The discussion being on "tools that work well",
>> I have a related question.
>>
>> In doing pocket-joinery ala Kreg, what helps insures that "nothing
>> slips" when
>> finally attaching the 2 pieces of wood with a screw (or screws). I don't
>> believe that the second piece of wood is normally drilled, right? Based
>> upon my experience, screwing two pieces of wood together does not yield
>> precise results without more technique (clamps, pre-drill, etc.). Is
>> there something remarkable about their screws?
>
> You reading my mail?? ;)
>
> Less than fifteen minutes ago I walked out of the shop after making four
> seat frames for my bar stool project this morning, using pocket hole
> joinery:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionBarStool#5834088508989074738
>
>
> I use both these types of clamps, although the Rockler clamp on the
> right will do a pretty good job by itself:
>
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675
>
> I have two of them and use them over most other methods these days.
>
> I also use this when doing a bunch of face frames for a large cabinet
> job, it is inset in a piece of large plywood base:
>
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21459&site=ROCKLER
>
>
> Lots of different ways, but the first Rockler jig above may be all you
> ever need.
>
Swingman,
based on your recommendation I bought one of these.
clamps.

I notice yours does not have the screw backed out at the end,
mine required backing the screw all the way out otherwise it rises off
the workpiece defeating the point of the clamp. I tried all different
lengths of pocket depth.

Am I the only one having this problem? Also adjusting that screw
required an unbelievable amount of torque to break the screw, it was so
tight.

Interesting chamfer on your seats.

--
Jeff

On 1/17/2013 2:02 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/17/2013 10:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/17/2013 10:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/17/13 1:09 AM, Dave wrote:
>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49892&cat=1,180,42311,46275
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tangent... Those regular Kreg vice grip jig clamps are way too
>>> expensive.
>>> These deep throat locking pliers from Harbor Freight work great with
>>> Kreg pocket hole jigs. I put a large fender washer in my jig, where the
>>> clamp grips. They snap right into the recess and stay put.
>>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have half a dozen of those and use them for a lot of other clamping
>> uses besides pocket holes.
>>
>> I've always been partial to the "vise-grip" type mechanism for quick
>> change clamping ... in my childhood I somehow knew a few folks who
>> actually used vice grips when their gear shift broke on the steering
>> columns of their trucks ... kinda thought they were standard issue there
>> for a while. :)
>>
>>
> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the Kreg
> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger round
> swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material with in
> it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what you set it
> regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high quality for this
> type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of years ago and will be
> buying more next go round. So easy to use that I use them left handed
> and I am right handed.
>
> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>
>
Those are real nice,
Same mechanism (close) the the Bessey Holddown... which came first?

--
Jeff

On 1/17/2013 6:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/17/2013 2:02 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/17/2013 10:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2013 10:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/13 1:09 AM, Dave wrote:
>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49892&cat=1,180,42311,46275
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tangent... Those regular Kreg vice grip jig clamps are way too
>>>> expensive.
>>>> These deep throat locking pliers from Harbor Freight work great with
>>>> Kreg pocket hole jigs. I put a large fender washer in my jig, where
>>>> the
>>>> clamp grips. They snap right into the recess and stay put.
>>>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have half a dozen of those and use them for a lot of other clamping
>>> uses besides pocket holes.
>>>
>>> I've always been partial to the "vise-grip" type mechanism for quick
>>> change clamping ... in my childhood I somehow knew a few folks who
>>> actually used vice grips when their gear shift broke on the steering
>>> columns of their trucks ... kinda thought they were standard issue there
>>> for a while. :)
>>>
>>>
>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the Kreg
>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger round
>> swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material with in
>> it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what you set it
>> regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high quality for this
>> type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of years ago and will be
>> buying more next go round. So easy to use that I use them left handed
>> and I am right handed.
>>
>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>
>>
> Those are real nice,
> Same mechanism (close) the the Bessey Holddown... which came first?
>

Bessy came out with their hold down last year or the year before IIRC.
The CH Hanson ones have been considerably longer. Mine is 3~4 years
old. I seems I have seen the mechanism on other similar products before
that.

On 1/17/2013 3:50 PM, Han wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/17/2013 3:07 PM, Han wrote:
>>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the
>>>>> Kreg
>>>>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger
>>>>> round swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material
>>>>> with in it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what
>>>>> you set it regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high
>>>>> quality for this type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of
>>>>> years ago and will be buying more next go round. So easy to use
>>>>> that I use them left handed and I am right handed.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>>>
>>>> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of
>>>> various sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be buying
>>>> into that as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> 10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime
>>> shipping.
>>>
>>
>>
>> BUT the ones at Amazon do not have the 2" disk one then end like the
>> Kreg brand. They only have the pair with the 1" swivel disks. I am
>> currently in contact with the manufacturer to see of they can be had
>> with the larger disk.. That said, there are ways around that.
>
> Glue on some bigger pads, perhaps?

Yeah that is what I am thinking, perhaps fender washers and some epoxy.
At any rate I think I am going to have to find the old vendor that I
originally bought them from or buy them and make the modification my self.

I clamp my work down when sanding and these work the best for me as they
do not have to be adjusted. Should have bought 2 at the show a couple
of years ago. Apparently The Woodworking Show is no longer coming to
Houston. Hopefully someone else will fill the void. The Wood Working
shows did a piss poor job.

On 1/15/2013 4:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Get the Festool 55 saw if you are mainly cutting plywood and 4/4 stock. It will cut up to 8/4 with the rail. But its not designed for that. If your main use is ripping 8/4 or maybe even 12/4 solid hardwood, then the Festool 75 is the saw. It is much heavier and bigger and harder to use than the light nimble 55 saw.


What he said.

I personally opted for the TS75, mainly because I wanted the extra
capacity, as my work often calls for me to be able to cover all bases,
and it makes economic sense to do that with one tool if possible.

That said, and owning a cabinet saw, I would love to have the TS55 also,
because the preponderance of my plunge saw use is indeed for sheetgood
work, which the TS55 covers nicely and without strain, while being
smaller, lighter and easier to heft for an entire day.

Bottom line, you will be tickled whichever one you decide upon.

IIRC, Leon asked me that same question when he went to buy one ... might
want to get his take on the basis for him choosing the TS75.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/17/2013 3:07 PM, Han wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the Kreg
>>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger round
>>> swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material with in
>>> it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what you set it
>>> regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high quality for this
>>> type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of years ago and will be
>>> buying more next go round. So easy to use that I use them left
>>> handed and I am right handed.
>>>
>>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>
>> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of various
>> sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be buying into that
>> as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair anyway.
>
>
> 10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime shipping.
>


BUT the ones at Amazon do not have the 2" disk one then end like the
Kreg brand. They only have the pair with the 1" swivel disks. I am
currently in contact with the manufacturer to see of they can be had
with the larger disk.. That said, there are ways around that.

On 1/16/2013 11:02 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/16/2013 11:52 AM, Swingman wrote:


>> Less than fifteen minutes ago I walked out of the shop after making four
>> seat frames for my bar stool project this morning, using pocket hole
>> joinery:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionBarStool#5834088508989074738
>>
>>
>>
>> I use both these types of clamps, although the Rockler clamp on the
>> right will do a pretty good job by itself:
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675

> Swingman,
> based on your recommendation I bought one of these.
> clamps.
>
> I notice yours does not have the screw backed out at the end,
> mine required backing the screw all the way out otherwise it rises off
> the workpiece defeating the point of the clamp. I tried all different
> lengths of pocket depth.
>
> Am I the only one having this problem? Also adjusting that screw
> required an unbelievable amount of torque to break the screw, it was so
> tight.

I have never had that problem, so I don't know what to tell you. My
initial guess would be the depth of cut (drill) and the depth stop not
set correctly, but that is just a guess, with no basis in experience
whatsoever.

> Interesting chamfer on your seats.

I have always done that to my seat web frames made for upholstery, and
the upholstery guys seem to love it ... I was under the impression it
was something that everyone did. It does make for a more comfortable to
sit in seat, and a better fitting upholstery job.

When I delivered the seat frames to the upholstery shop yesterday, the
old guy called his workers to look at the frames, and the bar stool I
brought along so he could see what I wanted ... you would have thought I
was from outerspace the way they gathered around and ohhh'ed and ahhh'ed
... "You mean you really made this chair, really???".

We tend to forget just how rare handmade custom furniture/woodwork is
these days. :)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/17/2013 10:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/17/13 1:09 AM, Dave wrote:
>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49892&cat=1,180,42311,46275
>>
>
> Tangent... Those regular Kreg vice grip jig clamps are way too expensive.
> These deep throat locking pliers from Harbor Freight work great with
> Kreg pocket hole jigs. I put a large fender washer in my jig, where the
> clamp grips. They snap right into the recess and stay put.
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html>

I have half a dozen of those and use them for a lot of other clamping
uses besides pocket holes.

I've always been partial to the "vise-grip" type mechanism for quick
change clamping ... in my childhood I somehow knew a few folks who
actually used vice grips when their gear shift broke on the steering
columns of their trucks ... kinda thought they were standard issue there
for a while. :)


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

> Santa paid a late visit and I ended up holding some cash that
> I want to apply to getting a plunge saw to cut sheet goods. None
> of my current tools work well enough, though to be honest, they
> work ok. I just want something that I don't have to hassle with
> to get a clean and accurate cut.
> I'm currently torn between the two Festool models. Of the two,
> I'm thinking EQ 75, but is it worth the extra dough ($175)? I haven't
> worked out the others in the equation (DeWalt, Makita) but understand
> they only offer one model and they are close to the Festool EQ 55.
> Does anyone have experience in making this decision and what did
> you decide? Any guidance would be helpful.

For many years, I used a standard circular saw with a straight edge (saw
board) to cut down plywood sheets. I got straight cuts, but the edges of
the cuts were terrible with lots of chipout. I tried different blades,
tape, and other methods but always had the chipout. Occasionally I would
even drift away from the straight edge messing up my cut.

I had a hard time believing a track saw would cut any differently, but I
sprung for a Makita SP6000K track saw anyway. I was pleasantly surprised at
the quality of the cuts. They're as clean as the cuts I get from my
tablesaw. The track ensures they are dead accurate, and hooking up my shop
vac virtually eliminates the sawdust that used to fly everywhere during a
cut. It's also much quieter than my old saw with a nice soft start feature.

The track saw is a fantastic addition to my shop. I only wish I had taken
the leap earlier.

I think Wood Whisperer did a video podcast comparing track saws a few years
ago?

Anthony Watson
Mountain Software
www.mountain-software.com/about.htm

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Leon wrote:
>
>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the Kreg
>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger round
>> swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material with in
>> it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what you set it
>> regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high quality for this
>> type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of years ago and will be
>> buying more next go round. So easy to use that I use them left
>> handed and I am right handed.
>>
>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>
> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of various
> sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be buying into that
> as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair anyway.


10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime shipping.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/17/2013 3:07 PM, Han wrote:
>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the
>>>> Kreg
>>>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger
>>>> round swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material
>>>> with in it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what
>>>> you set it regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high
>>>> quality for this type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of
>>>> years ago and will be buying more next go round. So easy to use
>>>> that I use them left handed and I am right handed.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>>
>>> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of
>>> various sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be buying
>>> into that as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair anyway.
>>
>>
>> 10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime
>> shipping.
>>
>
>
> BUT the ones at Amazon do not have the 2" disk one then end like the
> Kreg brand. They only have the pair with the 1" swivel disks. I am
> currently in contact with the manufacturer to see of they can be had
> with the larger disk.. That said, there are ways around that.

Glue on some bigger pads, perhaps?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/17/2013 3:50 PM, Han wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 1/17/2013 3:07 PM, Han wrote:
>>>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the
>>>>>> Kreg
>>>>>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger
>>>>>> round swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness
>>>>>> material with in it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains
>>>>>> constant at what you set it regardless of thickness being
>>>>>> clamped. Pretty high quality for this type tool. I got mine at
>>>>>> a WW show a couple of years ago and will be buying more next go
>>>>>> round. So easy to use that I use them left handed and I am right
>>>>>> handed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of
>>>>> various sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be
>>>>> buying into that as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair
>>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime
>>>> shipping.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BUT the ones at Amazon do not have the 2" disk one then end like the
>>> Kreg brand. They only have the pair with the 1" swivel disks. I am
>>> currently in contact with the manufacturer to see of they can be had
>>> with the larger disk.. That said, there are ways around that.
>>
>> Glue on some bigger pads, perhaps?
>>
> Ok! I found the vendor. Looks like an additional $10 for the
> privileged of having the bigger disk added.
>
> http://www.cabinet-hardware-solutions.com/Clamps.html

I'll see what I'll do after the pair I ordered get here.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Get the Festool 55 saw if you are mainly cutting plywood and 4/4 stock. It=
will cut up to 8/4 with the rail. But its not designed for that. If your=
main use is ripping 8/4 or maybe even 12/4 solid hardwood, then the Festoo=
l 75 is the saw. It is much heavier and bigger and harder to use than the =
light nimble 55 saw.




On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:35:53 PM UTC-6, MJ wrote:
> Santa paid a late visit and I ended up holding some cash that
>=20
> I want to apply to getting a plunge saw to cut sheet goods. None
>=20
> of my current tools work well enough, though to be honest, they
>=20
> work ok. I just want something that I don't have to hassle with
>=20
> to get a clean and accurate cut.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I'm currently torn between the two Festool models. Of the two,
>=20
> I'm thinking EQ 75, but is it worth the extra dough ($175)? I haven't
>=20
> worked out the others in the equation (DeWalt, Makita) but understand
>=20
> they only offer one model and they are close to the Festool EQ 55.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Does anyone have experience in making this decision and what did
>=20
> you decide? Any guidance would be helpful.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> MJ

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:03:45 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>Karl and I found a tool that holds the tracks true while you tighten the
>set screws on the rods. Not a Festool item but quick, simple, foolproof,
>and expensive. ;-0. IIRC $100.

Wouldn't that be one or two simple straight edges, perhaps with a
couple of loosely tightened bar clamps to hold it in place?

I bought one of these a few years ago which would serve that purpose.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=50074&cat=1,240,45313

On 1/17/2013 10:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/17/2013 10:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/17/13 1:09 AM, Dave wrote:
>>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49892&cat=1,180,42311,46275
>>>
>>
>> Tangent... Those regular Kreg vice grip jig clamps are way too expensive.
>> These deep throat locking pliers from Harbor Freight work great with
>> Kreg pocket hole jigs. I put a large fender washer in my jig, where the
>> clamp grips. They snap right into the recess and stay put.
>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html>
>>
>
> I have half a dozen of those and use them for a lot of other clamping
> uses besides pocket holes.
>
> I've always been partial to the "vise-grip" type mechanism for quick
> change clamping ... in my childhood I somehow knew a few folks who
> actually used vice grips when their gear shift broke on the steering
> columns of their trucks ... kinda thought they were standard issue there
> for a while. :)
>
>
I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the Kreg
locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger round
swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material with in
it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what you set it
regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high quality for this
type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of years ago and will be
buying more next go round. So easy to use that I use them left handed
and I am right handed.

http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html

Swingman wrote:
> On 1/16/2013 8:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> quick, simple, foolproof,
>> and expensive.
>
> Don't look now, Bubba ... but you just described Festool to a "T". :>)
>
The discussion being on "tools that work well",
I have a related question.

In doing pocket-joinery ala Kreg, what helps insures that "nothing
slips" when
finally attaching the 2 pieces of wood with a screw (or screws). I don't
believe that the second piece of wood is normally drilled, right? Based
upon my experience, screwing two pieces of wood together does not yield
precise results without more technique (clamps, pre-drill, etc.). Is
there something remarkable about their screws?

Bill

On 1/16/2013 9:14 AM, Bill wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/16/2013 8:03 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> quick, simple, foolproof,
>>> and expensive.
>>
>> Don't look now, Bubba ... but you just described Festool to a "T". :>)
>>
> The discussion being on "tools that work well",
> I have a related question.
>
> In doing pocket-joinery ala Kreg, what helps insures that "nothing
> slips" when
> finally attaching the 2 pieces of wood with a screw (or screws). I don't
> believe that the second piece of wood is normally drilled, right?

clamps or holddowns.

correct.

Swingman wrote:
>
>
> Lots of different ways, but the first Rockler jig above may be all you
> ever need.
>

When they are demonstrating the Kreg Pocket-hole Jigs, the clamps are
never mentioned! ; )

Thank you for the lesson!

BTW, Your 4 chairs look lovely, so far!

Bill

On 1/17/13 1:09 AM, Dave wrote:
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49892&cat=1,180,42311,46275
>

Tangent... Those regular Kreg vice grip jig clamps are way too expensive.
These deep throat locking pliers from Harbor Freight work great with
Kreg pocket hole jigs. I put a large fender washer in my jig, where the
clamp grips. They snap right into the recess and stay put.
<http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html>


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:

> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the Kreg
> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger round
> swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material with in
> it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what you set it
> regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high quality for this
> type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of years ago and will be
> buying more next go round. So easy to use that I use them left handed
> and I am right handed.
>
> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html

I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of various sizes
of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be buying into that as well.
May just buy a couple or a few pair anyway.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/17/13 3:44 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/17/2013 3:07 PM, Han wrote:
>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the Kreg
>>>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger round
>>>> swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material with in
>>>> it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what you set it
>>>> regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high quality for this
>>>> type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of years ago and will be
>>>> buying more next go round. So easy to use that I use them left
>>>> handed and I am right handed.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>>
>>> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of various
>>> sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be buying into that
>>> as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair anyway.
>>
>>
>> 10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime shipping.
>>
>
>
> BUT the ones at Amazon do not have the 2" disk one then end like the
> Kreg brand. They only have the pair with the 1" swivel disks. I am
> currently in contact with the manufacturer to see of they can be had
> with the larger disk.. That said, there are ways around that.


Forget about the disk being on the clamp.
Put a washer on the Kreg jig and then you're not locked into one clamp.
http://mikedrums.com/KregJig.jpg
I guess the clamp won't "attach" to the jig like the Kregs, but I can't
say I've ever missed that.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

> Forget about the disk being on the clamp.
> Put a washer on the Kreg jig and then you're not locked into one
> clamp. http://mikedrums.com/KregJig.jpg
> I guess the clamp won't "attach" to the jig like the Kregs, but I
> can't say I've ever missed that.

Is that the Kreg Jig Jr, Mike?

I'm curious - which Kreg does everyone here have?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/17/13 5:48 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> Forget about the disk being on the clamp.
>> Put a washer on the Kreg jig and then you're not locked into one
>> clamp. http://mikedrums.com/KregJig.jpg
>> I guess the clamp won't "attach" to the jig like the Kregs, but I
>> can't say I've ever missed that.
>
> Is that the Kreg Jig Jr, Mike?
>
> I'm curious - which Kreg does everyone here have?
>

It just has "R3" on it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/16/2013 10:14 AM, Bill wrote:

> The discussion being on "tools that work well",
> I have a related question.
>
> In doing pocket-joinery ala Kreg, what helps insures that "nothing
> slips" when
> finally attaching the 2 pieces of wood with a screw (or screws). I don't
> believe that the second piece of wood is normally drilled, right? Based
> upon my experience, screwing two pieces of wood together does not yield
> precise results without more technique (clamps, pre-drill, etc.). Is
> there something remarkable about their screws?

You reading my mail?? ;)

Less than fifteen minutes ago I walked out of the shop after making four
seat frames for my bar stool project this morning, using pocket hole
joinery:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionBarStool#5834088508989074738

I use both these types of clamps, although the Rockler clamp on the
right will do a pretty good job by itself:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675

I have two of them and use them over most other methods these days.

I also use this when doing a bunch of face frames for a large cabinet
job, it is inset in a piece of large plywood base:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21459&site=ROCKLER


Lots of different ways, but the first Rockler jig above may be all you
ever need.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:35:53 -0800 (PST), MJ <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Santa paid a late visit and I ended up holding some cash that
>I want to apply to getting a plunge saw to cut sheet goods. None
>of my current tools work well enough, though to be honest, they
>work ok. I just want something that I don't have to hassle with
>to get a clean and accurate cut.

I'm amazed at how cleanly plunge saws work for that. Outstanding.


>I'm currently torn between the two Festool models. Of the two,
>I'm thinking EQ 75, but is it worth the extra dough ($175)? I haven't
>worked out the others in the equation (DeWalt, Makita) but understand
>they only offer one model and they are close to the Festool EQ 55.
>
>Does anyone have experience in making this decision and what did
>you decide? Any guidance would be helpful.

I'm an FF (frugal duck) and went with the Makita SP6001K and adore it.
It will cut as deep as a tubafore with ease, but maybe not quite at a
full 45 degrees. I doubt I'll use it for that, anyway, though.

It comes in its own systainer (a Festool word) but is less expensive.
With the money saved, you could purchase another length of guide,
retaining bars, and another blade or three. I have two 55" guides for
a total of 110". My li'l ShopVac with a cleanstream filter works well
for dust control.

--
Believe nothing.
No matter where you read it,
Or who said it,
Even if I have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense.
-- Buddha

On 1/17/2013 3:50 PM, Han wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/17/2013 3:07 PM, Han wrote:
>>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a single pair of these listed below. They are like the
>>>>> Kreg
>>>>> locking pliers with the smaller round swivel end and the bigger
>>>>> round swivel but they are self adjusting for any thickness material
>>>>> with in it's capacity. Clamping pressure remains constant at what
>>>>> you set it regardless of thickness being clamped. Pretty high
>>>>> quality for this type tool. I got mine at a WW show a couple of
>>>>> years ago and will be buying more next go round. So easy to use
>>>>> that I use them left handed and I am right handed.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.chhanson.com/products_ALC.html
>>>>
>>>> I like those! If I didn't have an overflowing drawer full of
>>>> various sizes of the more traditional vise grip style, I'd be buying
>>>> into that as well. May just buy a couple or a few pair anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> 10" with swivel pads are $17.50 ea on Amazon, qualify for prime
>>> shipping.
>>>
>>
>>
>> BUT the ones at Amazon do not have the 2" disk one then end like the
>> Kreg brand. They only have the pair with the 1" swivel disks. I am
>> currently in contact with the manufacturer to see of they can be had
>> with the larger disk.. That said, there are ways around that.
>
> Glue on some bigger pads, perhaps?
>
Ok! I found the vendor. Looks like an additional $10 for the
privileged of having the bigger disk added.

http://www.cabinet-hardware-solutions.com/Clamps.html

On 1/17/2013 10:55 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/16/2013 11:02 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/16/2013 11:52 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>
>>> Less than fifteen minutes ago I walked out of the shop after making four
>>> seat frames for my bar stool project this morning, using pocket hole
>>> joinery:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionBarStool#5834088508989074738
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use both these types of clamps, although the Rockler clamp on the
>>> right will do a pretty good job by itself:
>>>
>>> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675
>
>> Swingman,
>> based on your recommendation I bought one of these.
>> clamps.
>>
>> I notice yours does not have the screw backed out at the end,
>> mine required backing the screw all the way out otherwise it rises off
>> the workpiece defeating the point of the clamp. I tried all different
>> lengths of pocket depth.
>>
>> Am I the only one having this problem? Also adjusting that screw
>> required an unbelievable amount of torque to break the screw, it was so
>> tight.
>
> I have never had that problem, so I don't know what to tell you. My
> initial guess would be the depth of cut (drill) and the depth stop not
> set correctly, but that is just a guess, with no basis in experience
> whatsoever.
>
> > Interesting chamfer on your seats.
>
> I have always done that to my seat web frames made for upholstery, and
> the upholstery guys seem to love it ... I was under the impression it
> was something that everyone did. It does make for a more comfortable to
> sit in seat, and a better fitting upholstery job.
>
> When I delivered the seat frames to the upholstery shop yesterday, the
> old guy called his workers to look at the frames, and the bar stool I
> brought along so he could see what I wanted ... you would have thought I
> was from outerspace the way they gathered around and ohhh'ed and ahhh'ed
> ... "You mean you really made this chair, really???".
>
> We tend to forget just how rare handmade custom furniture/woodwork is
> these days. :)
>
No as far as depth, I have tried much deeper and much shallower, same
results. It appears that the plastic tube is too flexible when screwed
all the way in, when it's screwed out it appears to have some side support.

I have tried deep holes using thicker pieces so I could move away from
the edge more, and it had no effect. So my guess is I got the bad one.

--
Jeff