On 5 July, 09:47, "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Beware of Mr. Rust
> Some people have a reputation for rusting everything that they hold.
Mate of mine (a smoker) does this. Another friend's lathe has
fingerprints etched into the chrome on the handwheels from him.
"Andy Dingley" wrote:
> Besides which, where do you buy affordable lanolin these days?
---------------------------
A dairy supply house.
On this side of the pond, they sell it under the "Udder Balm" label.
It will also be lower cost than you expect.
Prevents galling on S/S sailboat rigging.
No self respecting sailor leaves port without it.<G>
Lew
"woodstuff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
>
> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
>
> woodstuff
>
also from that link:
Beware of Mr. Rust
Some people have a reputation for rusting everything that they hold. These
people have unique body oil. I don't know if it contains metal salts, high
moisture content, or low pH. If you have guests in your shop, be careful
about letting them handle good steel or tools. You might be the first to
discover that Uncle Bert is one of those guys with a corrosive touch.
If you have this unique body oil, consider wearing cotton gloves oiled with
something like Breakfree CLP to keep your body oils off of tools. Breakfree
CLP is a multipurpose teflon oil designed to clean, lubricate, and protect
metal. Another approach is to wash your hands and give them a light rub with
mineral oil before handling metal.
Really??? I have never heard of that one.
Tim w
On 7/5/2010 3:47 AM, Tim W wrote:
> Beware of Mr. Rust
> Some people have a reputation for rusting everything that they hold. These
> people have unique body oil. I don't know if it contains metal salts, high
> moisture content, or low pH. If you have guests in your shop, be careful
> about letting them handle good steel or tools. You might be the first to
> discover that Uncle Bert is one of those guys with a corrosive touch.
It's why I cringe whenever someone "sits in" with the band on a song and
asks to use my bass ... some people will rust steel instrument strings
between songs. :(
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 5 July, 12:17, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On this side of the pond, they sell it under the "Udder Balm" label.
I've not seen "Udder Balm", but our local equivalents in the farm
shops have too much in the way of additives.
At present, the closest to pure lanolin I've found is for treating
horse tack. This is creamed and has solvents added, but as I wanted to
make leather dressings from it anyway, they seem to be compatible with
the rest of my recipe. Trouble is that the price of anything horse-
related gets steep.
Swingman wrote:
> On 7/5/2010 3:47 AM, Tim W wrote:
>
>> Beware of Mr. Rust
>> Some people have a reputation for rusting everything that they hold.
>> These people have unique body oil. I don't know if it contains metal
>> salts, high moisture content, or low pH. If you have guests in your
>> shop, be careful about letting them handle good steel or tools. You
>> might be the first to discover that Uncle Bert is one of those guys
>> with a corrosive touch.
>
> It's why I cringe whenever someone "sits in" with the band on a song
> and asks to use my bass ... some people will rust steel instrument
> strings between songs. :(
I was going to say something similar. Most guitar players are well aware
that there are people out there who can rust a brand new set of strings in
days, while others can get months or more out of a set. I have no idea what
the chemistry is, and don't really care. Some folks just have a wicked acid
touch.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 00:52:57 -0700, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"woodstuff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
>>
>> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
>>
>> woodstuff
>>
>>
>
>From the link:
>"You can discourage rust a number of ways. For my woodworking tools, like my
>table saw and jointer tops, I use Automobile Paste Wax. I put it on fairly
>heavily and often. It seems to work well. There are also cream waxes, but
>these contain some water, so I stick with paste. "
>
>Automobile paste wax frequently - Real Frequently - contains silicones.
>Silicones are not conducive to decent finishes on wood. As wood passes over
>a waxed surface containing silicones it picks up some of those silicones and
>renders it difficult to finish.
>
>Use Boeshield or Johnson red stripe paste wax.
>
>This was a jump off the page issue. After seeing this, I did not bother
>reading the rest of it.
Automotive "paste wax" does not contain silicones.
Many "automotive polishes" do.
Automotive "paste wax" is much like Johnson paste wax - usually high
in Carnaubu, along with mixtures of paraffin , beaswax, and what have
you - but NOT silicone.None of Turtles "paste waxes" including super
hard shell, super hard shell carnaubu,extreme paste wax or liquid
paste wax contain silicones. Nor does the original formula Simoniz,
which is still available.
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 04:00:46 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>On 5 July, 07:54, "woodstuff" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
>>
>> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
>
>Dear goodness no! The chemistry is rubbish, the workshop advice
>worse.
>
>Besides which, where do you buy affordable lanolin these days? I've
>been trying to buy a litre or two for the last couple of years. You
>can't even buy it on Bradford any more.
eBay, Andy. Hmm, interesting. It's not for sale in the UK. You might
be able to talk a seller into shipping it to you, though.
http://fwd4.me/Vk0
http://fwd4.me/Vk3
http://www.soapgoods.com/Lanolin-Wax-p-683.html
--
It's also helpful to realize that this very body that we have, that's
sitting right here right now, with its aches and its pleasures, is
exactly what we need to be fully human, fully awake, fully alive.
-- Pema Chodron
On 5 July, 07:54, "woodstuff" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
>
> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
Dear goodness no! The chemistry is rubbish, the workshop advice
worse.
Besides which, where do you buy affordable lanolin these days? I've
been trying to buy a litre or two for the last couple of years. You
can't even buy it on Bradford any more.
"woodstuff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
>
> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
>
> woodstuff
>
>
From the link:
"You can discourage rust a number of ways. For my woodworking tools, like my
table saw and jointer tops, I use Automobile Paste Wax. I put it on fairly
heavily and often. It seems to work well. There are also cream waxes, but
these contain some water, so I stick with paste. "
Automobile paste wax frequently - Real Frequently - contains silicones.
Silicones are not conducive to decent finishes on wood. As wood passes over
a waxed surface containing silicones it picks up some of those silicones and
renders it difficult to finish.
Use Boeshield or Johnson red stripe paste wax.
This was a jump off the page issue. After seeing this, I did not bother
reading the rest of it.
In article <[email protected]>, "woodstuff" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
>
>http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
"Good article"? "well-written"?
Hardly.
The writer understands *nothing* about the chemistry of rusting, as shown by
this statement in the second paragraph: "When iron combines with oxygen, it
forms iron oxide, or rust. "
That's just not true.
Rust and iron oxide are *not* the same. Rust is *hydrated* iron oxide; that
is, iron oxide that has combined with water. Steel and iron oxidize
readily, but *cannot* rust unless they get wet.
Another false statement: "Rust is really Fe2O3, a reddish form of iron oxide."
No, it's not. Rust is hydrated iron oxide, Fe2O3 * nH2O.
And the advice to use automotive paste wax on woodworking tools is waaaaay off
base. Most automotive wax products contain silicone, which interferes greatly
with many wood finishes. (Google "silicone fisheye" for more information.)
Depending on your ambient humidity, *non*-automotive paste wax such as
Johnson's, Minwax, or Butchers may be adequate to protect your woodworking
tools from rust. It works for me in Indianapolis, with my shop in the basement
and protected by dehumidifiers. It doesn't work for Leon in Houston.
IMHO, this article is best ignored. The author is demonstrably ignorant of the
cause and mechanism of the formation of rust, and gives clearly bad advice
about the use of products to prevent its formation.
Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 5 July, 12:17, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On this side of the pond, they sell it under the "Udder Balm" label.
>
> I've not seen "Udder Balm", but our local equivalents in the farm
> shops have too much in the way of additives.
>
> At present, the closest to pure lanolin I've found is for treating
> horse tack. This is creamed and has solvents added, but as I wanted to
> make leather dressings from it anyway, they seem to be compatible with
> the rest of my recipe. Trouble is that the price of anything horse-
> related gets steep.
May not be available readily over there; the old timey favorite used as
a kid for its intended purpose amongst others was "The Original" Bag
Balm (since 1899)...
Lwww.bagbalm.com>
--
On 7/5/2010 5:58 AM, Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 5 July, 09:47, "Tim W"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Beware of Mr. Rust
>> Some people have a reputation for rusting everything that they hold.
>
> Mate of mine (a smoker) does this. Another friend's lathe has
> fingerprints etched into the chrome on the handwheels from him.
Don't we exude some amount of salt when we sweat? Perhaps some of us more than
others? Seems to me that could be a factor in this equation...
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
[email protected] wrote:
...
> Automotive "paste wax" does not contain silicones.
> Many "automotive polishes" do.
> Automotive "paste wax" is much like Johnson paste wax - usually high
> in Carnaubu, along with mixtures of paraffin , beaswax, and what have
> you - but NOT silicone.None of Turtles "paste waxes" including super
> hard shell, super hard shell carnaubu,extreme paste wax or liquid
> paste wax contain silicones. Nor does the original formula Simoniz,
> which is still available.
How do you know that...I can't find any info that says one way or
another what the wax product ingredients are. Their FAQ on
silicones/polymers simply says silicones are polishing agent additives
but doesn't say there's not some included in any of the waxes.
I certainly had been led to believe the lore; would be pleased to know
certain whether is/isn't...
--
On 7/5/2010 9:30 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 00:52:57 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "woodstuff"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
>>>
>>> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
>>>
>>> woodstuff
>>>
>>>
>>
>> From the link:
>> "You can discourage rust a number of ways. For my woodworking tools, like my
>> table saw and jointer tops, I use Automobile Paste Wax. I put it on fairly
>> heavily and often. It seems to work well. There are also cream waxes, but
>> these contain some water, so I stick with paste. "
>>
>> Automobile paste wax frequently - Real Frequently - contains silicones.
>> Silicones are not conducive to decent finishes on wood. As wood passes over
>> a waxed surface containing silicones it picks up some of those silicones and
>> renders it difficult to finish.
>>
>> Use Boeshield or Johnson red stripe paste wax.
>>
>> This was a jump off the page issue. After seeing this, I did not bother
>> reading the rest of it.
> Automotive "paste wax" does not contain silicones.
You've personally analyzed every such product on the market? You have a
source that has done so?
> Many "automotive polishes" do.
> Automotive "paste wax" is much like Johnson paste wax - usually high
> in Carnaubu, along with mixtures of paraffin , beaswax, and what have
> you - but NOT silicone.None of Turtles "paste waxes" including super
> hard shell, super hard shell carnaubu,extreme paste wax or liquid
> paste wax contain silicones.
Per <http://www.turtlewax.com/res/msds/T411R.pdf>, Turtle Wax PLATINUM
SERIES ULTRA GLOSS PASTE WAX contains 7-10 percent Volatile Silicone
D-5. Oops.
> Nor does the original formula Simoniz,
> which is still available.
From where?
Sorry, but Johnson and Butcher's have a track record, car waxes do not.
If you can provide a list of car waxes that are silicone-free and can
back that list up with test results you'll be doing a useful service,
but your blanket statement is just plain wrong.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "woodstuff"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
> >
> >http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
>
> "Good article"? "well-written"?
>
> Hardly.
>
> The writer understands *nothing* about the chemistry of rusting, as shown
by
> this statement in the second paragraph: "When iron combines with oxygen,
it
> forms iron oxide, or rust. "
>
> That's just not true.
>
> Rust and iron oxide are *not* the same. Rust is *hydrated* iron oxide;
that
> is, iron oxide that has combined with water. Steel and iron oxidize
> readily, but *cannot* rust unless they get wet.
>
> Another false statement: "Rust is really Fe2O3, a reddish form of iron
oxide."
> No, it's not. Rust is hydrated iron oxide, Fe2O3 * nH2O.
>
> And the advice to use automotive paste wax on woodworking tools is waaaaay
off
> base. Most automotive wax products contain silicone, which interferes
greatly
> with many wood finishes. (Google "silicone fisheye" for more information.)
> Depending on your ambient humidity, *non*-automotive paste wax such as
> Johnson's, Minwax, or Butchers may be adequate to protect your woodworking
> tools from rust. It works for me in Indianapolis, with my shop in the
basement
> and protected by dehumidifiers. It doesn't work for Leon in Houston.
>
> IMHO, this article is best ignored. The author is demonstrably ignorant of
the
> cause and mechanism of the formation of rust, and gives clearly bad advice
> about the use of products to prevent its formation.
Hey Doug, I agree with your post. I remember some of my organic chemistry
from decades ago, but not much. I know what ferrous oxide is, but I never
was good at keeping it away.
I use a scotchbrite pad under a random orbital sander, and then coat with
Johnson's paste wax. I had been looking for a good and more permanent
coating for my tops when I came across this article.
I have a hard-headed friend who has used Turtle Wax for decades and he won't
be swayed. We both run larger volumes of stock through our machines that
whatever is put on there doesn't stay long. Most stuff ends up going
through a sanding process and any wax residue goes into the dust collector.
I do agree with you 100% about the problems of silicone.
I didn't answer all of your post, but time is limited.
Have a good day, woodstuff
"Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:H_gYn.138560$NM4.27295@hurricane...
>
> "woodstuff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I have seen a lot of this, but not in one place and not so well-written?
> >
> > http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
> >
> > woodstuff
> >
> also from that link:
>
>
> Beware of Mr. Rust
> Some people have a reputation for rusting everything that they hold. These
> people have unique body oil. I don't know if it contains metal salts, high
> moisture content, or low pH. If you have guests in your shop, be careful
> about letting them handle good steel or tools. You might be the first to
> discover that Uncle Bert is one of those guys with a corrosive touch.
>
> If you have this unique body oil, consider wearing cotton gloves oiled
with
> something like Breakfree CLP to keep your body oils off of tools.
Breakfree
> CLP is a multipurpose teflon oil designed to clean, lubricate, and protect
> metal. Another approach is to wash your hands and give them a light rub
with
> mineral oil before handling metal.
>
>
>
> Really??? I have never heard of that one.
>
> Tim w
>
I saw a man put his hand and lean on a brand new bandsaw top a few years
ago, and when I returned to the shop the next day, the owner showed me his
hand prints. Also, in my own shop, I move my stuff around alot (I started
putting casters on my machines 20-something years ago), and I sometime grab
the top to pull or push it. It is clear that I cause rust in those areas..
Maybe I am Mr. Rust!! LOL
Our body oils are of acidic pH balance and they can etch certain finishes.
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Don't we exude some amount of salt when we sweat? Perhaps some of us more
than
others? Seems to me that could be a factor in this equation...
On 7/5/2010 5:58 AM, Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 5 July, 09:47, "Tim W"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Beware of Mr. Rust
>> Some people have a reputation for rusting everything that they hold.
>
> Mate of mine (a smoker) does this. Another friend's lathe has
> fingerprints etched into the chrome on the handwheels from him.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/