Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that
open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just
right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and
plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on
either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect the
inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only
option?
Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites but
those folks are usually a-holes.
Thanks for any advice
Rich
On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 08:01:48 -0800, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that
>open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just
>right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and
>plum.
Where are they fitting tightly? Sides or top/bottom? Have you waxed
or siliconed the rubber yet? Have you made sure that you aren't
bowing the frame in with shims? (This is far too easy to do. DAMHIKT)
Are both doors tight separately, or just together? Are you sure that
the frame isn't skewed in the opening (rhombus), which would make one
doors bind on the top and the other bind on the bottom? (and probably
the sidelights, too.)
>Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on
>either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect the
>inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only
>option?
Steel doesn't plane easily, of which I'm sure you're aware.
>Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites but
>those folks are usually a-holes.
Hey, we can be, too. That's plumb and jamb, for next time. ;)
--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...
Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"
On Jan 19, 12:48=A0am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/18/11 11:13 PM, Josepi wrote:
>
> > GEEESH!!! The door unit is sitting on top of a giant humidifier!!
>
> > You gonna' have trouble with that one!. Leave lots of slack or come
> > back...LOL
>
> It's not "on top of" anything but a concrete slab.
> If you're talking about the hot tub that appears to be a good 3-4 feet
> away, you, as usual, are spewing gross exaggerations and complete BS.
>
> How is an exterior door designed to withstand constant exposure to water
> going to be at all effected by the minimal amount of steam that might be
> blown by a breeze towards it, instead of rising straight up from the hot
> tub?
>
> How is that little amount of condensation somehow worse than a driving ra=
in?
>
> What about that light fixture? =A0He better be careful it doesn't
> "explode," huh?
Maybe capillary action works differently where he is. The water would
wick up through the spa liner, across the concrete and into the door.
The dangerous part is when it doesn't stop there and ends up in a
faucet in the house. That's why some of them drip constantly.
R
On Jan 16, 6:03=A0pm, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The last batch of pre hung interior doors I got (for my student built hou=
se
> project) =A0was of such poor quality workmanship, that we will probably h=
ang
> our own door slabs and trim them.
>
> Anyone else notice that, lately?
Lately....? Try for years. It's like they take the trained monkeys
that finished at the bottom of the class at Monkey Training School.
Correcting a badly hung prehung takes longer than hanging a slab and
you still end up with an inferior end result.
R
On Jan 17, 3:20=A0pm, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> >> Anyone else notice that, lately?
>
> > Lately....? =A0Try for years. =A0It's like they take the trained monkey=
s
> > that finished at the bottom of the class at Monkey Training School.
> > Correcting a badly hung prehung takes longer than hanging a slab and
> > you still end up with an inferior end result.
>
> I guess it has gone from repairable to non repairable, and from barely no=
t
> acceptable to totally unacceptable.
>
> I only buy a bulk amount of doors once every two years, for my student bu=
ilt
> house project. =A0It makes changes like this more dramatic and noticeable=
, I
> guess.
Student house project? Sounds interesting - elaborate, please.
> Are you a contractor, and do you hang your own doors from slabs, now? =A0=
How
> about a quick survey from contractor types out there reading the group?
Yes, and yes.
> What do you all do for interior doors, nowadays? =A0Prehung or hang your =
own?
I will use an exterior prehung from a quality manufacturer, but I
still hang my own exterior doors if I find a door I like. I like
doing it. It also allows me to upgrade hardware to 4" ball bearing
hinges and bronze saddles (Zero International is about half an hour
away), and everybody appreciates that stuff (and pays for it). I love
seeing people _playing_ with one of my doors - opening and closing it
repeatedly just to watch it move effortlessly and click into place.
Houses have very few moving parts that are frequently operated, and
those parts should be of the highest quality, not the lowest.
Interior prehungs have nasty features, like radiused jamb edges that
run into a radiused jamb header and that leaves a gap, oversized
hinge gains, skimpy stops, and nasty brass 'finish' hinges, etc.
R
Rich wrote:
> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights
> that open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are
> fitting just right. Have done all the necessary shimming and
> everything is level and plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between
> doors to open. The jams on either side of doors are fixed and
> changing the shims would not effect the inside doors. These are steel
> doors, wondering if planing is the only option?
Was the rough opening at least that specced for the door?
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>> I teach residential construction in a rural NC high school. The school
>> bought land adjacent to the HS and opened a road into it to create a
>> small
>> housing development. We build a new house and action it off when it is
>> done, about 1650 square feet heated, full basement, 2 car garage, 3
>> bedroom,
>> 2 bath. They are aimed at new home owners, or perhaps downsizers or
>> retired
>> folks. We have a masonry dept, carpentry, electrical, and agriculture
>> gets
>> involved at landscaping time. Home economics chooses décor, and drafting
>> classes draw the plans. At times, we also build a full set of cabinets
>> for
>> the house, but that sometimes pushes the time line. A new house is
>> started
>> every two years, with the goal of drying it in the first, finishing the
>> second.
>
> Su-perb! What an excellent thing to do. You're very lucky to have
> adjacent land for that, but programs like yours could work in a lot of
> places. Even in a depressed urban area. New Orleans comes to mind.
>
> Post the web site link, J. I'd love to see more about your program.
You know, we don't have any web site for it. I will think about that, and
try to put something together in the next couple months.
>
>> It seems like it is a long time to build a house, but when you only work
>> on
>> it for about 2 hours a day, it takes a while, plus given the fact that
>> you
>> have to teach how to do each new skill, and sometime do the constructing,
>> then tearing it out and doing again, as many times as is necessary to get
>> it
>> right.
>
> Is there a maximum age for your students? I'd like to work only two
> hours a day. ;)
Yeah, right. Those two hours of work represent many hours of hair pulling,
on my part. Right now, I am teaching a former mason to be my teacher
assistant. He is a fairly quick study, but you know, he is still a mason.
You know what a mason is, don't you? It is a carpenter with his brains
bashed out!
> Murder?! Shocking. BTW, they're called "job site accidents".
You don't know how tempting that has been!
>> The house sale results in a little profit, which is put back into buying
>> equipment for the vocational classes that are involved in the
>> construction.
>
> There should be more programs like yours. Sustainable education is at
> least as important as any other kind.
>> I guess I am going to have to get my door hanging router template out
>> that I
>> bought several years ago, and learn how to use it!
>
> Ah, a fellow tool junkie. Nothing like having a backlog of tools that
> have never been used. It gives one another reason to keep on going.
> Eventually there will be the eureka moment..."ya know, that tool would
> be _perfect_ for this!"
Yes, my mom's brother was a journeyman carpenter, and had retired and
selectively selling off some of his tools that his son did not want. I saw
his router door hanging set, and wanted it. It is a set that clips together
with rods, so you go from frame to door with the same set, and it mortises
the hinges reliably and accurately. I have not picked it up lately, but it
is either a Rockwell or porter-cable, I think. I will get the thing out and
learn how to use it, when I get one of those elusive round-tuits.
--
Jim in NC
On Jan 15, 11:24=A0am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
> > On Jan 15, 11:01 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights t=
hat
> >> open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting j=
ust
> >> right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level an=
d
> >> plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams o=
n
> >> either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect
> >> the inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the o=
nly
> >> option?
>
> >> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites
> >> but those folks are usually a-holes.
> >> Thanks for any advice
> >> Rich
>
> > Planing a steel door...? =A0Do you mean it's a wood cored door with
> > steel skins? =A0If there's exposed wood on the edges of the door, you
> > could plane it down, but you can't plane down a steel, hollow-core
> > door. =A0You could grind it down, but that would likely make the door a
> > mess.
>
> > If the doors were a prehung unit, then there's something wrong with
> > the installation and by _far_ the easiest thing to do is to pull the
> > unit and reinstall it.
>
>
> Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install
> problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll have =
to
> take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on both
> sides.
Where exactly is it binding, and how much would it need to be planed?
Hold a square in the top corners of the door opening against the jambs
and see if there's some creep there. The threshold was part of the
unit when installed, right?
You said everything was level and plumb, but you didn't mention
square, which is critical. What are the diagonal measurements of the
door opening? They need to be the same for it to be perfectly square.
R
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:58:08 -0500, "Morgans"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Mike O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:20:15 -0500, "Morgans"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I guess it has gone from repairable to non repairable, and from barely not
>>>acceptable to totally unacceptable.
>>>
>>>I only buy a bulk amount of doors once every two years, for my student
>>>built
>>>house project. It makes changes like this more dramatic and noticeable, I
>>>guess.
>>>
>>>Are you a contractor, and do you hang your own doors from slabs, now? How
>>>about a quick survey from contractor types out there reading the group?
>>
>> I've been a finish carpenter for way too many years. We work our own
>> exterior doors on occasion but never work interior doors anymore.
>> My suggestion for those having trouble with pre-hung doors is to never
>> buy them from the big box stores and look around for a local supplier
>> that machines their doors onsite. I can think of 3 different lumber
>> yards that machine doors locally. These guys will give you the choice
>> of any option of door, jamb, stop, hinge, back-set etc. that you can
>> afford and give you much better/quicker service if you do encounter a
>> problem.
>
> I will start looking, but I am surprised you can find someone to do yours
>locally.
Just remember that the doors at the BORGs are only a teeny percentage
of the price the finish carpenters want for their installed set.
Custom is far nicer, but you really pay for it.
Borg $350-700 (ltd choice)
Local guys $2,500-25k (for far more choices and far more door)
--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air...
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
All suggestions, so for, are pretty good. I would add, also, were the
doors finished or unfinished? Maybe some moisture got into the wood
and the doors expanded a little. If this may be an element of the
problem, then allowing the doors to dry, then seal, may help. Make
surer the edges of the doors are sealed, also, not just the interior/
exterior faces.... albeit/them steel clad.
Otherwise, I'm thinking, plane whichever edges you can.
Sonny
On Jan 15, 12:16=A0pm, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
> > On Jan 15, 11:24 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> RicodJour wrote:
> >> > On Jan 15, 11:01 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side light=
s
> >> >> that open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are
> >> >> fitting just right. Have done all the necessary shimming and
> >> >> everything is level and plum. Not sure how I can get the gap betwee=
n
> >> >> doors to open. The jams on either side of doors are fixed and chang=
ing
> >> >> the shims would not effect the inside doors. These are steel doors,
> >> >> wondering if planing is the only option?
>
> >> >> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit si=
tes
> >> >> but those folks are usually a-holes.
> >> >> Thanks for any advice
> >> >> Rich
>
> >> > Planing a steel door...? =A0Do you mean it's a wood cored door with
> >> > steel skins? =A0If there's exposed wood on the edges of the door, yo=
u
> >> > could plane it down, but you can't plane down a steel, hollow-core
> >> > door. =A0You could grind it down, but that would likely make the doo=
r a
> >> > mess.
>
> >> > If the doors were a prehung unit, then there's something wrong with
> >> > the installation and by _far_ the easiest thing to do is to pull the
> >> > unit and reinstall it.
>
> >> Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install
> >> problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll ha=
ve
> >> to take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on b=
oth
> >> sides.
>
> > Where exactly is it binding, and how much would it need to be planed?
> > Hold a square in the top corners of the door opening against the jambs
> > and see if there's some creep there. =A0The threshold was part of the
> > unit when installed, right?
>
> Right. biding at the top. Probably about 1/16" These units are installed
> with staples and I know have a tendency to loosen. But that should effect
> the side light doors and they are fine. Leaving in a few and will check
> square at top of jam.
>
>
>
> > You said everything was level and plumb, but you didn't mention
> > square, which is critical. =A0What are the diagonal measurements of the
> > door opening? =A0They need to be the same for it to be perfectly square=
.
>
> > R
>
> Did the Diagonal, both equal.
They sidelights are not a problem and since they're narrower any
misalignment would have less of an effect. Forget about them.
Prehung doors are banged out in a production line and often have
miscut hinge gains, stripped screws and other avoidable defects. If
you did not check the operation of the door before installation, and
verify the squareness and such, doing so after it's installed is a bit
late in the game. It's entirely possible that the door was defective
when you got it.
Plane the edge, it's only 1/16" and that is what it's there for.
R
On Jan 17, 9:56=A0pm, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > Student house project? =A0Sounds interesting - elaborate, please.
>
> I teach residential construction in a rural NC high school. =A0The school
> bought land adjacent to the HS and opened a road into it to create a smal=
l
> housing development. =A0We build a new house and action it off when it is
> done, about 1650 square feet heated, full basement, 2 car garage, 3 bedro=
om,
> 2 bath. =A0They are aimed at new home owners, or perhaps downsizers or re=
tired
> folks. =A0We have a masonry dept, carpentry, electrical, and agriculture =
gets
> involved at landscaping time. =A0Home economics chooses d=E9cor, and draf=
ting
> classes draw the plans. =A0At times, we also build a full set of cabinets=
for
> the house, but that sometimes pushes the time line. =A0A new house is sta=
rted
> every two years, with the goal of drying it in the first, finishing the
> second.
Su-perb! What an excellent thing to do. You're very lucky to have
adjacent land for that, but programs like yours could work in a lot of
places. Even in a depressed urban area. New Orleans comes to mind.
Post the web site link, J. I'd love to see more about your program.
> It seems like it is a long time to build a house, but when you only work =
on
> it for about 2 hours a day, it takes a while, plus given the fact that yo=
u
> have to teach how to do each new skill, and sometime do the constructing,
> then tearing it out and doing again, as many times as is necessary to get=
it
> right.
Is there a maximum age for your students? I'd like to work only two
hours a day. ;)
> Excellent program, for those truly interested in it, but sometimes it is =
a
> challenge =A0to keep from murdering the students that are not all that
> interested.
Murder?! Shocking. BTW, they're called "job site accidents".
> The house sale results in a little profit, which is put back into buying
> equipment for the vocational classes that are involved in the constructio=
n.
There should be more programs like yours. Sustainable education is at
least as important as any other kind.
> I guess I am going to have to get my door hanging router template out tha=
t I
> bought several years ago, and learn how to use it!
Ah, a fellow tool junkie. Nothing like having a backlog of tools that
have never been used. It gives one another reason to keep on going.
Eventually there will be the eureka moment..."ya know, that tool would
be _perfect_ for this!"
R
Look to see if the frame next to the door is parallel or warped. IOW is it
tight for the full length? or just in certain spots.
I would suspect you installed your wedges too tight or the unit was warped
to begin with and you shimmed it in that way. Now the mounting screws didn't
pull the frame back to correct.
For small amounts shave the wood edges but a new door shouldn't need this.
Look again and you should find it after a night's think.
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install
problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll have to
take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on both
sides.
--
>
> I don't like messing with those doors to much because they are pretty
> flimsy. I move the doors to the location then take off all the crappy
> packing straps,blocks,and crating material. Don't trust those staples.
> Have
> had to remove them when the idiot or machine missed.
The last batch of pre hung interior doors I got (for my student built house
project) was of such poor quality workmanship, that we will probably hang
our own door slabs and trim them.
Anyone else notice that, lately?
--
Jim in NC
GEEESH!!! The door unit is sitting on top of a giant humidifier!!
You gonna' have trouble with that one!. Leave lots of slack or come
back...LOL
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Rich wrote:
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll279/evodawg/French%20Door/
Heres a picture of the French Door Installed that I had some question on.
Everything went fine, had to shave down one doors upper corner a bit. The
House is not all plumb but what house is? That was a bit of a problem to,
getting the doors to set together on the same plane. Customer is happy. But
the drywall R&R should be fun. This job was a result of water damage. Rain
in Southern California 3 weeks ago. When we were getting 4" a day for a
week.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>> Anyone else notice that, lately?
>
> Lately....? Try for years. It's like they take the trained monkeys
> that finished at the bottom of the class at Monkey Training School.
> Correcting a badly hung prehung takes longer than hanging a slab and
> you still end up with an inferior end result.
I guess it has gone from repairable to non repairable, and from barely not
acceptable to totally unacceptable.
I only buy a bulk amount of doors once every two years, for my student built
house project. It makes changes like this more dramatic and noticeable, I
guess.
Are you a contractor, and do you hang your own doors from slabs, now? How
about a quick survey from contractor types out there reading the group?
What do you all do for interior doors, nowadays? Prehung or hang your own?
--
Jim in NC
On Jan 15, 11:01=A0am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that
> open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just
> right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and
> plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on
> either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect th=
e
> inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only
> option?
>
> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites bu=
t
> those folks are usually a-holes.
> Thanks for any advice
> Rich
Planing a steel door...? Do you mean it's a wood cored door with
steel skins? If there's exposed wood on the edges of the door, you
could plane it down, but you can't plane down a steel, hollow-core
door. You could grind it down, but that would likely make the door a
mess.
If the doors were a prehung unit, then there's something wrong with
the installation and by _far_ the easiest thing to do is to pull the
unit and reinstall it.
R
"Mike O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:20:15 -0500, "Morgans"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I guess it has gone from repairable to non repairable, and from barely not
>>acceptable to totally unacceptable.
>>
>>I only buy a bulk amount of doors once every two years, for my student
>>built
>>house project. It makes changes like this more dramatic and noticeable, I
>>guess.
>>
>>Are you a contractor, and do you hang your own doors from slabs, now? How
>>about a quick survey from contractor types out there reading the group?
>
> I've been a finish carpenter for way too many years. We work our own
> exterior doors on occasion but never work interior doors anymore.
> My suggestion for those having trouble with pre-hung doors is to never
> buy them from the big box stores and look around for a local supplier
> that machines their doors onsite. I can think of 3 different lumber
> yards that machine doors locally. These guys will give you the choice
> of any option of door, jamb, stop, hinge, back-set etc. that you can
> afford and give you much better/quicker service if you do encounter a
> problem.
I will start looking, but I am surprised you can find someone to do yours
locally.
--
Jim in NC
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:20:15 -0500, "Morgans"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I guess it has gone from repairable to non repairable, and from barely not
>acceptable to totally unacceptable.
>
>I only buy a bulk amount of doors once every two years, for my student built
>house project. It makes changes like this more dramatic and noticeable, I
>guess.
>
>Are you a contractor, and do you hang your own doors from slabs, now? How
>about a quick survey from contractor types out there reading the group?
I've been a finish carpenter for way too many years. We work our own
exterior doors on occasion but never work interior doors anymore.
My suggestion for those having trouble with pre-hung doors is to never
buy them from the big box stores and look around for a local supplier
that machines their doors onsite. I can think of 3 different lumber
yards that machine doors locally. These guys will give you the choice
of any option of door, jamb, stop, hinge, back-set etc. that you can
afford and give you much better/quicker service if you do encounter a
problem.
Mike O.
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that
> open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just
> right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and
> plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on
> either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect the
> inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only
> option?
>
> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites but
> those folks are usually a-holes.
> Thanks for any advice
> Rich
Did you install with the doors still in place? You can open up a whole can
of alignment worms if you remove the door/doors prior to attaching the unit
in place.
If all else fails you might try cutting the hinge mortises a bit deeper.
RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 15, 11:01 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that
>> open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just
>> right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and
>> plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on
>> either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect
>> the inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only
>> option?
>>
>> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites
>> but those folks are usually a-holes.
>> Thanks for any advice
>> Rich
>
> Planing a steel door...? Do you mean it's a wood cored door with
> steel skins? If there's exposed wood on the edges of the door, you
> could plane it down, but you can't plane down a steel, hollow-core
> door. You could grind it down, but that would likely make the door a
> mess.
>
> If the doors were a prehung unit, then there's something wrong with
> the installation and by _far_ the easiest thing to do is to pull the
> unit and reinstall it.
>
> R
Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install
problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll have to
take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on both
sides.
--
Leon wrote:
>
> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that
>> open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just
>> right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and
>> plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on
>> either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect
>> the inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only
>> option?
>>
>> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites
>> but those folks are usually a-holes.
>> Thanks for any advice
>> Rich
>
> Did you install with the doors still in place? You can open up a whole
> can of alignment worms if you remove the door/doors prior to attaching the
> unit in place.
>
> If all else fails you might try cutting the hinge mortises a bit deeper.
No, installed unit with doors in place. There is wood to plane but only want
to use that option if all else fails.
--
RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 15, 11:24 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> RicodJour wrote:
>> > On Jan 15, 11:01 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights
>> >> that open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are
>> >> fitting just right. Have done all the necessary shimming and
>> >> everything is level and plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between
>> >> doors to open. The jams on either side of doors are fixed and changing
>> >> the shims would not effect the inside doors. These are steel doors,
>> >> wondering if planing is the only option?
>>
>> >> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites
>> >> but those folks are usually a-holes.
>> >> Thanks for any advice
>> >> Rich
>>
>> > Planing a steel door...? Do you mean it's a wood cored door with
>> > steel skins? If there's exposed wood on the edges of the door, you
>> > could plane it down, but you can't plane down a steel, hollow-core
>> > door. You could grind it down, but that would likely make the door a
>> > mess.
>>
>> > If the doors were a prehung unit, then there's something wrong with
>> > the installation and by _far_ the easiest thing to do is to pull the
>> > unit and reinstall it.
>>
>>
>> Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install
>> problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll have
>> to take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on both
>> sides.
>
> Where exactly is it binding, and how much would it need to be planed?
> Hold a square in the top corners of the door opening against the jambs
> and see if there's some creep there. The threshold was part of the
> unit when installed, right?
Right. biding at the top. Probably about 1/16" These units are installed
with staples and I know have a tendency to loosen. But that should effect
the side light doors and they are fine. Leaving in a few and will check
square at top of jam.
>
> You said everything was level and plumb, but you didn't mention
> square, which is critical. What are the diagonal measurements of the
> door opening? They need to be the same for it to be perfectly square.
>
> R
Did the Diagonal, both equal.
--
Josepi wrote:
> Look to see if the frame next to the door is parallel or warped. IOW is it
> tight for the full length? or just in certain spots.
about a foot above the deadbolt to the top.
>
> I would suspect you installed your wedges too tight or the unit was warped
> to begin with and you shimmed it in that way. Now the mounting screws
> didn't pull the frame back to correct.
Loosened the top screws and shims on both side of the top and middle. But
not sure that would have any effect since there are side light doors and the
shimming would change those gaps not necessarily the middle french doors.
>
> For small amounts shave the wood edges but a new door shouldn't need this.
> Look again and you should find it after a night's think.
>
>
> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install
> problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll have
> to take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on both
> sides.
> --
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb
dadiOH wrote:
> Rich wrote:
>> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights
>> that open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are
>> fitting just right. Have done all the necessary shimming and
>> everything is level and plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between
>> doors to open. The jams on either side of doors are fixed and
>> changing the shims would not effect the inside doors. These are steel
>> doors, wondering if planing is the only option?
>
> Was the rough opening at least that specced for the door?
>
Yes I've installed many doors. This is the first French with side light
doors that open with screens I've installed.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 08:01:48 -0800, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that
>>open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just
>>right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and
>>plum.
>
> Where are they fitting tightly? Sides or top/bottom? Have you waxed
> or siliconed the rubber yet? Have you made sure that you aren't
> bowing the frame in with shims? (This is far too easy to do. DAMHIKT)
> Are both doors tight separately, or just together? Are you sure that
> the frame isn't skewed in the opening (rhombus), which would make one
> doors bind on the top and the other bind on the bottom? (and probably
> the sidelights, too.)
>
>
>>Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on
>>either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect the
>>inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only
>>option?
>
> Steel doesn't plane easily, of which I'm sure you're aware.
>
>
>>Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites but
>>those folks are usually a-holes.
>
> Hey, we can be, too. That's plumb and jamb, for next time. ;)
>
> --
> Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
> tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
> has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
> lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
> Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
> agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...
>
> Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
> of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
> indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
> -- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
> is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
> engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
> the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
> liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
> weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
> Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"
Just belt sanded the trouble area after trying a few tweaks. All is well and
customer happy. I agree with your above signature.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb
RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 15, 12:16 pm, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> RicodJour wrote:
>> > On Jan 15, 11:24 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> RicodJour wrote:
>> >> > On Jan 15, 11:01 am, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side
>> >> >> lights that open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side
>> >> >> lights are fitting just right. Have done all the necessary shimming
>> >> >> and everything is level and plum. Not sure how I can get the gap
>> >> >> between doors to open. The jams on either side of doors are fixed
>> >> >> and changing the shims would not effect the inside doors. These are
>> >> >> steel doors, wondering if planing is the only option?
>>
>> >> >> Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit
>> >> >> sites but those folks are usually a-holes.
>> >> >> Thanks for any advice
>> >> >> Rich
>>
>> >> > Planing a steel door...? Do you mean it's a wood cored door with
>> >> > steel skins? If there's exposed wood on the edges of the door, you
>> >> > could plane it down, but you can't plane down a steel, hollow-core
>> >> > door. You could grind it down, but that would likely make the door
>> >> > a mess.
>>
>> >> > If the doors were a prehung unit, then there's something wrong with
>> >> > the installation and by _far_ the easiest thing to do is to pull the
>> >> > unit and reinstall it.
>>
>> >> Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install
>> >> problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll
>> >> have to take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly
>> >> on both sides.
>>
>> > Where exactly is it binding, and how much would it need to be planed?
>> > Hold a square in the top corners of the door opening against the jambs
>> > and see if there's some creep there. The threshold was part of the
>> > unit when installed, right?
>>
>> Right. biding at the top. Probably about 1/16" These units are installed
>> with staples and I know have a tendency to loosen. But that should effect
>> the side light doors and they are fine. Leaving in a few and will check
>> square at top of jam.
>>
>>
>>
>> > You said everything was level and plumb, but you didn't mention
>> > square, which is critical. What are the diagonal measurements of the
>> > door opening? They need to be the same for it to be perfectly square.
>>
>> > R
>>
>> Did the Diagonal, both equal.
>
> They sidelights are not a problem and since they're narrower any
> misalignment would have less of an effect. Forget about them.
>
> Prehung doors are banged out in a production line and often have
> miscut hinge gains, stripped screws and other avoidable defects. If
> you did not check the operation of the door before installation, and
> verify the squareness and such, doing so after it's installed is a bit
> late in the game. It's entirely possible that the door was defective
> when you got it.
>
> Plane the edge, it's only 1/16" and that is what it's there for.
>
> R
Just took a belt sander to the trouble area, my plane in the truck needs
sharping. Its basically useless. All is fine and customer is happy. I don't
like doing that but I spent to much time trying to tweak it and whatever I
tried went for not.
I don't like messing with those doors to much because they are pretty
flimsy. I move the doors to the location then take off all the crappy
packing straps,blocks,and crating material. Don't trust those staples. Have
had to remove them when the idiot or machine missed.
Thanks for the advice.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb
Rich wrote:
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll279/evodawg/French%20Door/
Heres a picture of the French Door Installed that I had some question on.
Everything went fine, had to shave down one doors upper corner a bit. The
House is not all plumb but what house is? That was a bit of a problem to,
getting the doors to set together on the same plane. Customer is happy. But
the drywall R&R should be fun. This job was a result of water damage. Rain
in Southern California 3 weeks ago. When we were getting 4" a day for a
week.
Morgans wrote:
>
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>> Anyone else notice that, lately?
>>
>> Lately....? Try for years. It's like they take the trained monkeys
>> that finished at the bottom of the class at Monkey Training School.
>> Correcting a badly hung prehung takes longer than hanging a slab and
>> you still end up with an inferior end result.
>
> I guess it has gone from repairable to non repairable, and from barely not
> acceptable to totally unacceptable.
>
> I only buy a bulk amount of doors once every two years, for my student
> built
> house project. It makes changes like this more dramatic and noticeable, I
> guess.
>
> Are you a contractor, and do you hang your own doors from slabs, now? How
> about a quick survey from contractor types out there reading the group?
Yes. http://rentmyhusband.biz/
California General Engineering A License
>
> What do you all do for interior doors, nowadays? Prehung or hang your
> own?
Depends on customer and application. This door was bought by customer and I
had to make it fit in the window location. I do both. Damaged doors = slab
Damaged jam or broken = Pre Hung. But have replaced Jams on the bad side.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb
Morgans wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Student house project? Sounds interesting - elaborate, please.
>
> I teach residential construction in a rural NC high school. The
> school bought land adjacent to the HS and opened a road into it to
> create a small housing development. We build a new house and action
> it off when it is done, about 1650 square feet heated, full basement,
> 2 car garage, 3 bedroom, 2 bath. They are aimed at new home owners,
> or perhaps downsizers or retired folks. We have a masonry dept,
> carpentry, electrical, and agriculture gets involved at landscaping
> time. Home economics chooses décor, and drafting classes draw the
> plans. At times, we also build a full set of cabinets for the house,
> but that sometimes pushes the time line. A new house is started
> every two years, with the goal of drying it in the first, finishing
> the second.
> It seems like it is a long time to build a house, but when you only
> work on it for about 2 hours a day, it takes a while, plus given the
> fact that you have to teach how to do each new skill, and sometime do
> the constructing, then tearing it out and doing again, as many times
> as is necessary to get it right.
>
> Excellent program, for those truly interested in it, but sometimes it
> is a challenge to keep from murdering the students that are not all
> that interested.
>
> The house sale results in a little profit, which is put back into
> buying equipment for the vocational classes that are involved in the
> construction.
> I guess I am going to have to get my door hanging router template out
> that I bought several years ago, and learn how to use it!
bravo for your local area to have the foresight to actually train people to
do and make things.
chaniarts wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>> Student house project? Sounds interesting - elaborate, please.
>>
>> I teach residential construction in a rural NC high school. The
>> school bought land adjacent to the HS and opened a road into it to
>> create a small housing development. We build a new house and action
>> it off when it is done, about 1650 square feet heated, full basement,
>> 2 car garage, 3 bedroom, 2 bath. They are aimed at new home owners,
>> or perhaps downsizers or retired folks. We have a masonry dept,
>> carpentry, electrical, and agriculture gets involved at landscaping
>> time. Home economics chooses d�cor, and drafting classes draw the
>> plans. At times, we also build a full set of cabinets for the house,
>> but that sometimes pushes the time line. A new house is started
>> every two years, with the goal of drying it in the first, finishing
>> the second.
>> It seems like it is a long time to build a house, but when you only
>> work on it for about 2 hours a day, it takes a while, plus given the
>> fact that you have to teach how to do each new skill, and sometime do
>> the constructing, then tearing it out and doing again, as many times
>> as is necessary to get it right.
>>
>> Excellent program, for those truly interested in it, but sometimes it
>> is a challenge to keep from murdering the students that are not all
>> that interested.
>>
>> The house sale results in a little profit, which is put back into
>> buying equipment for the vocational classes that are involved in the
>> construction.
>> I guess I am going to have to get my door hanging router template out
>> that I bought several years ago, and learn how to use it!
>
> bravo for your local area to have the foresight to actually train people
> to do and make things.
I second that. Need lots more of those classes and programs. Heck I had to
learn everything on my own.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb
On 1/18/11 11:13 PM, Josepi wrote:
> GEEESH!!! The door unit is sitting on top of a giant humidifier!!
>
> You gonna' have trouble with that one!. Leave lots of slack or come
> back...LOL
>
It's not "on top of" anything but a concrete slab.
If you're talking about the hot tub that appears to be a good 3-4 feet
away, you, as usual, are spewing gross exaggerations and complete BS.
How is an exterior door designed to withstand constant exposure to water
going to be at all effected by the minimal amount of steam that might be
blown by a breeze towards it, instead of rising straight up from the hot
tub?
How is that little amount of condensation somehow worse than a driving rain?
What about that light fixture? He better be careful it doesn't
"explode," huh?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Our feet were neither good not bad and since some have classified them as
such, we went to the metric system to avoid the confusion of easier to
understand measurements.
We also don't believe our humifity works by capiliary action.
We also try to understand the words that are written, although sometimes
miscontrue them for real people's words.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:11c4c79e-aebb-442e-8021-6975bd5b7c40@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
Maybe capillary action works differently where he is. The water would
wick up through the spa liner, across the concrete and into the door.
The dangerous part is when it doesn't stop there and ends up in a
faucet in the house. That's why some of them drip constantly.
R
On 1/18/11 11:13 PM, Josepi wrote:
GEEESH!!! The door unit is sitting on top of a giant humidifier!!
You gonna' have trouble with that one!. Leave lots of slack or come
back...LOL
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
> Student house project? Sounds interesting - elaborate, please.
I teach residential construction in a rural NC high school. The school
bought land adjacent to the HS and opened a road into it to create a small
housing development. We build a new house and action it off when it is
done, about 1650 square feet heated, full basement, 2 car garage, 3 bedroom,
2 bath. They are aimed at new home owners, or perhaps downsizers or retired
folks. We have a masonry dept, carpentry, electrical, and agriculture gets
involved at landscaping time. Home economics chooses décor, and drafting
classes draw the plans. At times, we also build a full set of cabinets for
the house, but that sometimes pushes the time line. A new house is started
every two years, with the goal of drying it in the first, finishing the
second.
It seems like it is a long time to build a house, but when you only work on
it for about 2 hours a day, it takes a while, plus given the fact that you
have to teach how to do each new skill, and sometime do the constructing,
then tearing it out and doing again, as many times as is necessary to get it
right.
Excellent program, for those truly interested in it, but sometimes it is a
challenge to keep from murdering the students that are not all that
interested.
The house sale results in a little profit, which is put back into buying
equipment for the vocational classes that are involved in the construction.
I guess I am going to have to get my door hanging router template out that I
bought several years ago, and learn how to use it!
--
Jim in NC