ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
candidate John McCain said Monday.
Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
"unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:07:16 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
>
>> No Lew, I don't get it.
>
>That seems obvious since you continue to attack the messenger (me)
>rather than the message of Dick Armey.
Normally, if someone posts a message without indicating their
position, they tend to agree with the message. If you don't you
should say so. If you do, my repsonse stands.
>
>What part of Dick Armey's message don't you understand?
>
>Why do I get the feeling that Armey's words have hit an unpleasant
>chord deep down inside?
I've explained.
If a percentage of the voters feel that a black candidate would favor
a black constiuency in policy or otherwise, and if they would vote
against him as a result, then it is reported that they are racists.
Nothing of the sort, they are simply against the ideology that would
pit one race against another or favor one race over another and they
think that might just happen with this candidate.
>
>> IIRC this is the second thread you've started
>> using race as an excuse for the candidate you seem to support
>> potentially not being elected.
>
>Interesting observation, but I'm puzzled.
>
>If this is the 2nd thread, what was the 1st?
IIRC you posted in the recent past that we would reach a milestone in
race relations when we elect a black candidate. IIR incorrectly then
I have had a memory lapse.
>
>As a life long registered Republican, I have supported them almost
>exclusively except for Nixon in '72.
>
>That said, the Republican party of my youth no longer exists.
>
>Since the days of R Regan, the mantra of the Republican party has been
>one of, "I've got mine, you are on your own", coupled with a liberal
>injection of radical religous beliefs.
>
>Those are not my beliefs.
>
>Somewhere among all those rightou religous beliefs is one that states,
>"I am my brother's keeper".
Yep, we recently exercised that "I am my brothers keeper" and allowed
a whole bunch of folks a "free" ride into home ownership. Hey, you
don't have to save up a down payment (I did) and we'll even give you a
"special" interest rate (I didn't get one), and then you can wait a
year or two, borrow on the equity based on artificial value increase
and get that big screen tv and new car(I didn't). The American dream.
As mentioned, I didn't get those things, didn't want them, didn't
think they were right for anyone to get, but my retirement is in
jeapordy because of it and I'll get to probably have my taxes
increased to help clean up the mess.
>
>That does not translate into a welfare stare but neither does it imply
>that F**K your buddy is acceptable either.
>
>As a result, it has lead me to ask questions, most of which have not
>been answered.
>
>If those questions generate thoughts and questions within you that
>make you feel uneasy, that would seem to be a personal problem to me.
Uneasy is not the word. I simply disagree with the premise. Trot out
a black candidate who believes in fiscal conservatism, limited
government, the integrity of the constitution, and I doubt you'll see
"race" as an issue.
Frank
>
>I have not made up my mind but since I live in California, my vote has
>already been cast for me.
>
>Lew
>
jo4hn wrote:
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:14:16 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately many Republicans went along with the Democrats on these
>>>> policies, wanting to be perceived as willing to dole out money at the
>>>> public trough just as well as the Dems. That's what led to the loss of
>>>> Congress in 2006; why vote for a pretend Democrat when you can have the
>>>> real thing?
>>> If McCain went along, it's the second time for him. Remember the S&L
>>> crisis?
>>
>> BTW, just found this. It looks like Bush wasn't asleep at the wheel.
>> This mess falls firmly in the laps of Congress, the likes of Chris Dodd
>> and Barney Frank:
>>
>>
<http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print>
>>
>> Note that this was from 2003; the aforementioned congresscritters:
>> "''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any
>> kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank"
>>
> Well, thank God that the Republicans had control of both houses. This
> would never have gotten through a Democratic congress.
> phew,
> j4
You realize the dems had sufficient number in the senate to effectively
filibuster any effective reforms that were brought up, right? The
Republicans didn't have free reign to push through anything they wanted.
Coupled with the RINOS (Chaffee, Snow, Hagel, et al), there was no way that
a reform of Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac would have been pushed through.
Guess who benefited from Fannie Mae? Frankin Rains, Jamie Gurelick (sp?)
both wound up with multi-million dollar bonuses while Fannie Mae was
carrying out Barney Franks', Chris Dodd's, and Chuck Rangel's wishes of
making loans to people who could not afford to repay them. The seeds for
this were sown when in 1999, the Glass-Stegall act was repealed allowing
banks and brokerage houses to merge.
The Republicans often went along because to have denied lower income
people access to "affordable housing" would have had them crucified in the
press for being cold, elitist and heartless.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
On Sep 15, 11:49=A0pm, "todd" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> >> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
> >> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidentia=
l
> >> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
> >> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
> >> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
> >> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
> >> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
> >I guess what I was trying to say...is when are you spineless bastards
> >going to toss those corrupt militaristic extortionists in jail?
> >Better yet... hang the bastards!! Bush and Cheney deserve a tribunal!
> >Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
> >fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
> >is wrong with you people???
>
> Are you going to throw Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi in too? =A0I'm not sur=
e how
> it works in Canada, but here in the US we have this thing called "Congres=
s".
> It does things like approve spending and has the responsibility of oversi=
ght
> in a staggeringly broad number of areas. =A0With your mutual fund comment=
, I'm
> guessing you're concerned about the financial markets. =A0Max Baucus (D) =
is
> the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. =A0Good ol' Barney Frank (D=
)
> holds a similar position in the House. =A0Chris Dodd (D) is the chairman =
of
> the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. =A0But I
> know...anything bad that happens has the be Bush and Cheney's fault.
> Don't worry. =A0With any luck, the Messiah will be elected in November an=
d the
> whole world will love the US again, and the financial markets will go up,
> and everyone will get healthcare and a union job and we'll all just get i=
n a
> big circle and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".
>
> todd
If that is how you see the way things are... God help you. You need
drugs.
But I feel you are a troll, and that is based on the the fact that
NOBODY can be that ignorant.
On Sep 16, 12:04=A0am, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Let's call a spade a spade.
You gotta be kidding me... do you have your white sheet on and your
torch? Don't lay off this off as the "lipstick on a pig" style
gaffe.
You are too smart to have said that in error. If it is a troll, shame
on you. If you meant it....
> If it was not for the "Bubba" factor, Obama would have a runaway, but
> unfortunately "race" is still an issue in more parts of the USA than
> most of us will admit.
Be a man, Lew. Where are you pointing that judgmental, crooked
finger? Pony up... point out what parts you are talking about. You
seem to pride yourself on laying things on the table. Innuendo
doens't suit you well.
> When Bubba finally figures out that if Obama gets elected, the male
> blacks of the USA are not going to immediately be hell bent on
> grabbing Bubba's sister and heading for the nearest roadside motel.
Well, let's see. I am probably in your eyes a "Bubba", and let's not
forget that Clinton was the first to get tagged with Bubba politics,
so he is one, too. I have seen him laugh about it. So I guess in the
end, Clinton and I have something in common after all.
I am a blue collar worker, a remodeling contractor. I was born in the
South, educated in the South, and have worked here my whole life. It
is where I make my living, and where my family lives. I don't drive a
new truck, I don't have a big 401k, I swear too much, on occasion
drink too much, and love to barbecue. I like a good cigar every once
in a while, and like cowboy movies. Does that fit your definition of
a Bubba? It seems to fit most people's picture of one.
Especially the white elitists.
> When Bubba finally figures out that if Obama gets elected, the male
> blacks of the USA are not going to immediately be hell bent on
> grabbing Bubba's sister and heading for the nearest roadside motel.
I find it hard to believe in this day and age that anyone but the most
out of touch, bigoted, racist, judgmental of the braying jackasses
would say something like that.
Living here in the deep South, I have never, ever heard ANYONE say
that they are afraid that black men would immmediately scoop up white
women and take them to a hotel for God knows what. Not at any time,
not for any reason. How you connected that to Obama except for your
racist views, I have no idea.
It may be that way with the working class in California where you
live, but it isn't here in South Texas. I cannot imagine the
environment you live in that would put those hateful thoughts in your
head.
How fucking disgusting you are.
Robert
On Sep 15, 11:49=A0pm, "todd" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> >> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
> >> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidentia=
l
> >> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
> >> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
> >> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
> >> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
> >> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
> >I guess what I was trying to say...is when are you spineless bastards
> >going to toss those corrupt militaristic extortionists in jail?
> >Better yet... hang the bastards!! Bush and Cheney deserve a tribunal!
> >Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
> >fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
> >is wrong with you people???
>
> Are you going to throw Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi in too?
Absolutely! I did refer to spineless bastards, didn't I?
>=A0I'm not sure how
> it works in Canada, but here in the US we have this thing called "Congres=
s".
> It does things like approve spending and has the responsibility of oversi=
ght
> in a staggeringly broad number of areas. =A0With your mutual fund comment=
, I'm
> guessing you're concerned about the financial markets. =A0Max Baucus (D) =
is
> the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. =A0Good ol' Barney Frank (D=
)
> holds a similar position in the House. =A0Chris Dodd (D) is the chairman =
of
> the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. =A0But I
> know...anything bad that happens has the be Bush and Cheney's fault.
> Don't worry. =A0With any luck, the Messiah will be elected in November an=
d the
> whole world will love the US again, and the financial markets will go up,
> and everyone will get healthcare and a union job and we'll all just get i=
n a
> big circle and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".
>
Does Obama have any friends who make voting machines?
On Sep 16, 1:14=A0am, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Robatoy" wrote:
>
> > <snip, a lot of frustration>
>
> >>Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
> > fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
> > is wrong with you people???
>
> =A0 Do you even read the stuff you write? =A0Blaming this all on the pres=
ident
> is ridiculous; your rantings make it seem like you believe that Bush is
> spending every minute of every day plotting how he can make everone's lif=
e
> miserable.
I get it, Mark. He's blameless. He also didn't destroy the other
companies he's run and ruined in his life.
I didn't think it possible, but the current congress is even more
inept than Bush.
But you keep doing what you do best, Mark and keep making excuses for
your Dear Leader, after all He has been doing God's work, right?
On Sep 16, 9:16 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robert.... I can see how you drew that conclusion from Lew's post...
> but I think Lew's post is a hypothetical one.
I read it several times before I decided I couldn't ignore it, and his
allegory is loud and clear.
He believes that the "Bubbas", which is a term used a great deal in
the South, are afraid for the safety of their white women if a black
man is elected. I just couldn't believe it. For someone that has
felt free to chastise the group with his leftist prattle for some
time, it was a surprise to see his own bigotry laid out on the table.
> I read and re-read it, and it almost reads in a third person kinda
> way. He is pointing out that the Bubbas are often racist, I don't see
> how that makes him racist. We do agree that 'bubbas' exist, right?
The comment of "calling a spade a spade" used in a text condemning
others for their anti black racist views was unbelievable. I gave him
the benefit of a doubt by saying it COULD be a troll; I don't think it
was.
>He is pointing out that the Bubbas are often racist, I don't see
> how that makes him racist. We do agree that 'bubbas' exist, right?
Maybe in the frozen tundra of the Great White North, your blue collar
classes of outdoorsmen are turn of the century racists, but not so
down here. Around here, a "good old boy" or a "Bubba" is not a bad
thing. We even laughingly call some of the women "Bubbettes".
Are they racists because they don't wear a tie, don't work in air
conditioning and don't have a master's degree? Are they racist
because they drive domestic and their kids go to *gulp* public
school? Are they racist because they live in a rural setting? I
don't know if they are, but these are some of the base components that
make up a Bubba around here.
Although I may be considered a Bubba, I don't like the term much and
don't use it. But all from the South know what it is, and it is
generally used as a stereotypical term of derision.
Let's see though, about the Bubbas in San Antonio, a city with its
metroplex that is about 1.2 million people.
We have a registered population demographic of about 70% Hispanic
citizens, with about 20% white, and the rest are "others". Not much
room for Bubbaism there, although we have many Latino "Bubbas".
San Antonio hosts the largest (by far) Martin Luther King day march in
the nation. Not our enlightened brothers on the east coast where Lew
lives, not our liberal friends on the upper east coast, not even his
own home town has a bigger celebration of the man and his life.
Our city pays for this parade and its security, and with as many as
110,000 people participating each year it may surprise you to know
there aren't any incidents of violence or even counter protests.
Where are Lew's sterotypical Bubbas? Are they busy hiding their white
women from the black folks while they are at the MLK march?
Do I believe Bubbas exist. Absolutely.
Do I think because they are a different segment of society they have a
deep racial fear of having a black president? Do I think that they
believe by electing a man of color that it will give a signal to
others of color to steal off the white women for some terrible
purpose? No.
> I bolt onto Lew's idea, that there are enough racists out there to
> make a statistical difference in the polls. Many pundits have already
> admitted that the polls don't really reflect that component of hidden
> racism. Many people polled will SAY they will vote for a black man,
> but won't when they're in the booth.
And the Obama campaign has already worked this into their rhetoric.
There has been an undercurrent for some time now that "we may not be
ready" or we "may not accept" a black man as President. There is a
companion to that horse crap, and that is you may be a bit of a racist
if you DON'T vote for Obama.
>Racism is a disgusting fact of reality.
Yessir, it is. And folks like Lew make sure that bigotry, racism, and
suspicion and hate of others stay alive and well. People like Jesse
Jackson (calling Obama the "N" word on national television - class),
Rev. Wright and Mayor Ray ("chocolate city")Nagen work hard to keep
racism alive. Racism isn't confined to one class, color, or
demographic segment.
Around here (in Bubba land?) we don't live in Lew's world. I have
asked point blank, face to face if any of my friends or business
associates (hispanic/latino and white) would keep from voting for
Obama because he is black.
The answer isn't so suprising. No one gives a fig about his color.
We all want the same thing. We want some kind of healthcare program,
something to make sure Social Security isn't robbed blind, controls on
the cost of college education, better care for our troops, and better
care of our own citizenry. We want someone that can tackle the energy
problems, reign in government spending, and have tougher enforment of
existing laws.
If any candidate could deliver on that, he or she would be elected no
matter their appearance.
Let me put it in vernacular that a Lew would understand. A friend of
mine told me, "I am so sick of all this political shit, I would vote
for the sombitch that could fix things if it was a Chinese/Black
lesbian single mother crack addicted transexual club footed monkey
whose father was Rush Limbaugh."
Works for me.
> That 'calling a spade a spade' comment is a mighty strong statement.
> But it does illustrate the realities of deep-down hatred towards
> 'anybody-who-ain't-like-them'
Too true. Throw in the stereotypical bigoted comment about "Bubbas".
What does that say about the poster?
Robert
On Sep 17, 12:28=A0pm, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
> > Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:14:16 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> >>> Unfortunately many Republicans went along with the Democrats on these
> >>> policies, wanting to be perceived as willing to dole out money at the
> >>> public trough just as well as the Dems. =A0That's what led to the los=
s of
> >>> Congress in 2006; why vote for a pretend Democrat when you can have t=
he
> >>> real thing?
> >> If McCain went along, it's the second time for him. =A0Remember the S&=
L
> >> crisis?
>
> > BTW, just found this. =A0It looks like Bush wasn't asleep at the wheel.=
=A0This
> > mess falls firmly in the laps of Congress, the likes of Chris Dodd and
> > Barney Frank:
>
> > <http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=3D9E06E3D6123BF932A2575=
A...>
>
> > =A0 Note that this was from 2003; the aforementioned congresscritters:
> > "''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing a=
ny
> > kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank"
>
> Well, thank God that the Republicans had control of both houses. =A0This
> would never have gotten through a Democratic congress.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 phew,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 j4
A simple matter of deregulating the deregulators
On Sep 15, 10:35=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
It appears that the shine wore off within a week. After she referred
to the ( and I kid you not) Palin/McCain ticket, things haven't gone
well for her. Some polls show her down 21 % from a week ago.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sep 16, 1:37 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> I did not know what a Bubba was. I thought it was a bit more like that
> character from Deer Hunter.
> But as a synonym for 'regular folk'? Nope. Didn't know.
>
> There ARE racists who will not vote for Obama because he is black.
> They will vote for McCain. What does that tell you?
> That racists prefer McCain?
Of course not. There are also racists who won't vote for McCain, simply
because he's white and there is a black man to vote for.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sep 16, 2:21=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Sep 16, 12:04=A0am, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Let's call a spade a spade.
>
> You gotta be kidding me... do you have your white sheet on and your
> torch? =A0Don't lay off this off as the "lipstick on a pig" =A0style
> gaffe.
> You are too smart to have said that in error. =A0If it is a troll, shame
> on you. =A0If you meant it....
>
> > If it was not for the "Bubba" factor, Obama would have a runaway, but
> > unfortunately "race" is still an issue in more parts of the USA than
> > most of us will admit.
>
> Be a man, Lew. =A0Where are you pointing that judgmental, crooked
> finger? =A0Pony up... point out what parts you are talking about. =A0You
> seem to pride yourself on laying things on the table. =A0Innuendo
> doens't suit you well.
>
> > When Bubba finally figures out that if Obama gets elected, the male
> > blacks of the USA are not going to immediately be hell bent on
> > grabbing Bubba's sister and heading for the nearest roadside motel.
>
> Well, let's see. =A0I am probably in your eyes a "Bubba", and let's not
> forget that Clinton was the first to get tagged with Bubba politics,
> so he is one, too. =A0I have seen him laugh about it. =A0So I guess in th=
e
> end, Clinton and I have something in common after all.
>
> I am a blue collar worker, a remodeling contractor. =A0I was born in the
> South, educated in the South, and have worked here my whole life. =A0It
> is where I make my living, and where my family lives. =A0I don't drive a
> new truck, I don't have a big 401k, I swear too much, on occasion
> drink too much, and love to barbecue. =A0I like a good cigar every once
> in a while, and like cowboy movies. =A0Does that fit your definition of
> a Bubba? =A0It seems to fit most people's picture of one.
>
> Especially the white elitists.
>
> > When Bubba finally figures out that if Obama gets elected, the male
> > blacks of the USA are not going to immediately be hell bent on
> > grabbing Bubba's sister and heading for the nearest roadside motel.
>
> I find it hard to believe in this day and age that anyone but the most
> out of touch, bigoted, racist, judgmental of the braying jackasses
> would say something like that.
>
> Living here in the deep South, I have never, ever heard ANYONE say
> that they are afraid that black men would immmediately scoop up =A0white
> women and take them to a hotel for God knows what. =A0Not at any time,
> not for any reason. =A0How you connected that to Obama except for your
> racist views, I have no idea.
>
> It may be that way with the working class in California where you
> live, but it isn't here in South Texas. =A0I cannot imagine the
> environment you live in that would put those hateful thoughts in your
> head.
>
> How fucking disgusting you are.
>
> Robert
Robert.... I can see how you drew that conclusion from Lew's post...
but I think Lew's post is a hypothetical one.
I read and re-read it, and it almost reads in a third person kinda
way. He is pointing out that the Bubbas are often racist, I don't see
how that makes him racist. We do agree that 'bubbas' exist, right?
I bolt onto Lew's idea, that there are enough racists out there to
make a statistical difference in the polls. Many pundits have already
admitted that the polls don't really reflect that component of hidden
racism. Many people polled will SAY they will vote for a black man,
but won't when they're in the booth. Racism is a disgusting fact of
reality.
The racism card is often overplayed. *I* get a speeding ticked for
going too fast, NOT because I am white.
I think you should re-read Lew's post and see that it is a
condemnation of racism. That's what I read. I could be wrong.
That 'calling a spade a spade' comment is a mighty strong statement.
But it does illustrate the realities of deep-down hatred towards
'anybody-who-ain't-like-them'.
On Sep 18, 7:35=A0am, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:56:59 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
>
> >> Your assessment is more than just wrong. =A0It is insulting to people
> >> who have lived their whole lives in areas of significant demographic
> >> racial diversity and have worked diligently to bring harmony and
> >> equity. =A0The "major breakthrough" is that fifty+ years of work.
>
> >You missed it, it was not a vicious personal attack of a region or a
> >specific group of people.
>
> >See response to Robert (nailshooter).
>
> >Lew
>
> No Lew, I don't get it. =A0IIRC this is the second thread you've started
> using race as an excuse for the candidate you seem to support
> potentially not being elected.
>
> I'm sick of people who can't seem to fathom that when a candidate
> loses an election, that it might just be a problem with the candidates
> ideology rather than a flaw in the electorate. =A0He or she lost because
> of racism, sexism, lack of intelligence in group A, rednecks in
> reagion B, ......fill in your own.
>
> "There has to be something wrong with you people. =A0I'm just too
> intelligent to be wrong about my ideology".
>
> Frank
Well, Frank, anecdotal evidence might help: I have had several people
tell me they won't vote for the "high yellow." Given, this is the
heart of the old Confederacy, or within a few miles, but I'd hoped
that most people were beyond that.
At the same time, and in the same place, Obama carries a six
percentage point lead over McCain at the moment, in the polls (but are
the bigots going to admit their bias to the poll takers?) in Virginia.
It remains to be seen whether the rednecks tilt the scales far enough
back to make a difference.
"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
> No Lew, I don't get it.
That seems obvious since you continue to attack the messenger (me)
rather than the message of Dick Armey.
What part of Dick Armey's message don't you understand?
Why do I get the feeling that Armey's words have hit an unpleasant
chord deep down inside?
> IIRC this is the second thread you've started
> using race as an excuse for the candidate you seem to support
> potentially not being elected.
Interesting observation, but I'm puzzled.
If this is the 2nd thread, what was the 1st?
As a life long registered Republican, I have supported them almost
exclusively except for Nixon in '72.
That said, the Republican party of my youth no longer exists.
Since the days of R Regan, the mantra of the Republican party has been
one of, "I've got mine, you are on your own", coupled with a liberal
injection of radical religous beliefs.
Those are not my beliefs.
Somewhere among all those rightou religous beliefs is one that states,
"I am my brother's keeper".
That does not translate into a welfare stare but neither does it imply
that F**K your buddy is acceptable either.
As a result, it has lead me to ask questions, most of which have not
been answered.
If those questions generate thoughts and questions within you that
make you feel uneasy, that would seem to be a personal problem to me.
I have not made up my mind but since I live in California, my vote has
already been cast for me.
Lew
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 03:21:07 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
>
>> Normally, if someone posts a message without indicating their
>> position, they tend to agree with the message. If you don't you
>> should say so. If you do, my repsonse stands.
So you don't agree with his conclusion. That's encouraging. Why
bring it up?
>
>What's that old saying about "assuming"?
>
>> If a percentage of the voters feel that a black candidate would
>> favor
>> a black constiuency in policy or otherwise, and if they would vote
>> against him as a result, then it is reported that they are racists.
>
>Guess that's one way of looking at it.
>
>> Nothing of the sort, they are simply against the ideology that would
>> pit one race against another or favor one race over another and they
>> think that might just happen with this candidate.
>
>Don't think that was what Armey was addressing, but it sure sounds
>like paranoia to me.
>
Whatever. My favorite poster in "The Grove" yesterday was "Rednecks
for Obama"
>> IIRC you posted in the recent past that we would reach a milestone
>> in
>> race relations when we elect a black candidate.
>
>Correction:
>
>"A Milestone" commented on the fact that a man of color had been
>chosen by his party to represent them in the upcoming election, and
>that accomplishment demonstrated a great improvement in race relations
>over the last 50 years.
>
>Nothing more.
>
>IIR incorrectly
>> then
>> I have had a memory lapse.
>
>If that is what you want to call it, OK.
>
>> Yep, we recently exercised that "I am my brothers keeper" and
>> allowed
>> a whole bunch of folks a "free" ride into home ownership.
>
>That was no "free ride" as you call it, it was a major CON GAME
>conducted by those who were fully aware they were taking advantage of
>a group of people with the same dreams as everybody else, but without
>the tool to accomplish their dreams.
>
>> Hey, you
>> don't have to save up a down payment (I did) and we'll even give you
>> a
>> "special" interest rate (I didn't get one), and then you can wait a
>> year or two, borrow on the equity based on artificial value increase
>> and get that big screen tv and new car(I didn't). The American
>> dream.
>
>All part of "The Con".
>
>> As mentioned, I didn't get those things, didn't want them, didn't
>> think they were right for anyone to get, but my retirement is in
>> jeapordy because of it and I'll get to probably have my taxes
>> increased to help clean up the mess.
>
>Somehow I think we could swap lies about working 2-3 jobs, working
>nights and week ends.
>
>Doing without things, pinching every nickel until the Indian Chief had
>a tear in his eye, supporting a young family, while all the time
>putting money in that savings account for that elusive 20% down
>payment for "The House".
>
>10% down was available, but it was costly.
>
>Like you, I remember.
>
>Like you, I was there.
>
>But that was then and this is now.
>
>> Uneasy is not the word. I simply disagree with the premise. Trot
>> out
>> a black candidate who believes in fiscal conservatism, limited
>> government, the integrity of the constitution, and I doubt you'll
>> see
>> "race" as an issue.
>
>You mean more of the last 8 years?
What's that got to do with it? I never held up this administration as
an example of limited government or fiscal conservativism. Your
changing the subject. It had to do with whether a significant number
of people will vote for or against a person because of their race
rather than their intended platform. My view is only the truly
ignorant and that alone does not qualify them as a "Bubba" but maybe
there are more in that category than I would hope for.
>
>Fiscal conservatism as in continuation of the Iraq war?
>
>Fiscal conservatism as in continuation of the subsidies to large oil?
>
>Fiscal conservatism as in continuation of the subsidies to
>corporations who move offshore to avoid paying taxes?
>
>You betcha, bring on some more of that fiscal conservatism.
>
>Limited government as in subcontract out everything possible, like
>Halliburton?
>
>You betcha, less people employed by the government, thus smaller
>government; however, same amount or more money and patronage is good
>for fund raising.
>
>It's all an accounting game.
>
>"the integrity of the constitution".
>
>Great glowing generalization, but what does it really mean?
>
>If the gov't makes decision you agree with, then they are maintaining
>"the integrity of the constitution".
>
>If the gov't makes decision you disagree with, then they are not
>maintaining "the integrity of the constitution".
>
>Is that what "the integrity of the constitution" is all about?
>
>
>
>Lew
>
>
>
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Do yourself a favor and do a google: "dick+armey+bubba".
>
> The "bubba factor" is not geography sensitive, it is racism as practiced
> anyplace in this country.
>
> It is also not people sensitive issue.
>
> Blue collar or white collar, back room or board room, suburb, central city
> or farm are not limiting factors.
>
> Racism can/will rear it's ugly head at crunch time.
I agree. No matter what people are saying publicly, I know of a couple of
people that just won't pull the lever for a non-white. Now my little world
does not constitute the demographics of the country, but I've heard a few
times things like " I'm not prejudiced, but . . . . . "
I wish Condoleeza Rice would run. You not only get a double minority, you
also get one of the smartest people in Washington.
On Sep 19, 5:37=A0pm, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
> CC wrote:
>
> > "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:50537d7c-be6d-4906-ba20-3e880d25ee87@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> >> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
> >> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidentia=
l
> >> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
> >> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
> >> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
> >> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
> >> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
>
> > It appears that the shine wore off within a week. After she referred
> > to the ( and I kid you not) Palin/McCain ticket, things haven't gone
> > well for her. Some polls show her down 21 % from a week ago.
>
> > Shiny like a quarter coated with mercury, Pretty for a couple days then
> > tarnished like an old penny
> > CC
>
> Saw parts of an interview she did with Sean Hannity. =A0Hard ball
> questions? =A0More like hitting her with a balloon. =A0Some questions on
> important stuff like the economy (Do you think that when Obama said such
> and so, he was right?) or war (Do you think McCain is more clear...) and
> stuff like that. =A0I guess I expected more.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 j4
She's a fraud. Hillary (and I thoroughly dislike her) is 100 times the
woman Palin is. I don't like Vick either, but he's one helluva
football player.
On Sep 15, 10:35=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
I guess what I was trying to say...is when are you spineless bastards
going to toss those corrupt militaristic extortionists in jail?
Better yet... hang the bastards!! Bush and Cheney deserve a tribunal!
Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
is wrong with you people???
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
>
> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
It's another form of the non-denial denial.
Dave in Houston
Joe Biden's kids are lobbyists. I am sure there will be no favoritism
there.......I've been wrong before.
cm
"Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I think you should give Obama the chance to lead.He doesn't have lobbyists
>working his campaign,he doesn't take lobbyist money>
Not any more, his son resigned. Could use a few resignations in the Bush
administration.It still stands no lobbyists working on his campaign.How many
are working for there own interests on Mccains run 40 maybe 50...200?
"cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joe Biden's kids are lobbyists. I am sure there will be no favoritism
> there.......I've been wrong before.
>
> cm
> "Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I think you should give Obama the chance to lead.He doesn't have lobbyists
>>working his campaign,he doesn't take lobbyist money>
>
>
"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
> Normally, if someone posts a message without indicating their
> position, they tend to agree with the message. If you don't you
> should say so. If you do, my repsonse stands.
What's that old saying about "assuming"?
> If a percentage of the voters feel that a black candidate would
> favor
> a black constiuency in policy or otherwise, and if they would vote
> against him as a result, then it is reported that they are racists.
Guess that's one way of looking at it.
> Nothing of the sort, they are simply against the ideology that would
> pit one race against another or favor one race over another and they
> think that might just happen with this candidate.
Don't think that was what Armey was addressing, but it sure sounds
like paranoia to me.
> IIRC you posted in the recent past that we would reach a milestone
> in
> race relations when we elect a black candidate.
Correction:
"A Milestone" commented on the fact that a man of color had been
chosen by his party to represent them in the upcoming election, and
that accomplishment demonstrated a great improvement in race relations
over the last 50 years.
Nothing more.
IIR incorrectly
> then
> I have had a memory lapse.
If that is what you want to call it, OK.
> Yep, we recently exercised that "I am my brothers keeper" and
> allowed
> a whole bunch of folks a "free" ride into home ownership.
That was no "free ride" as you call it, it was a major CON GAME
conducted by those who were fully aware they were taking advantage of
a group of people with the same dreams as everybody else, but without
the tool to accomplish their dreams.
> Hey, you
> don't have to save up a down payment (I did) and we'll even give you
> a
> "special" interest rate (I didn't get one), and then you can wait a
> year or two, borrow on the equity based on artificial value increase
> and get that big screen tv and new car(I didn't). The American
> dream.
All part of "The Con".
> As mentioned, I didn't get those things, didn't want them, didn't
> think they were right for anyone to get, but my retirement is in
> jeapordy because of it and I'll get to probably have my taxes
> increased to help clean up the mess.
Somehow I think we could swap lies about working 2-3 jobs, working
nights and week ends.
Doing without things, pinching every nickel until the Indian Chief had
a tear in his eye, supporting a young family, while all the time
putting money in that savings account for that elusive 20% down
payment for "The House".
10% down was available, but it was costly.
Like you, I remember.
Like you, I was there.
But that was then and this is now.
> Uneasy is not the word. I simply disagree with the premise. Trot
> out
> a black candidate who believes in fiscal conservatism, limited
> government, the integrity of the constitution, and I doubt you'll
> see
> "race" as an issue.
You mean more of the last 8 years?
Fiscal conservatism as in continuation of the Iraq war?
Fiscal conservatism as in continuation of the subsidies to large oil?
Fiscal conservatism as in continuation of the subsidies to
corporations who move offshore to avoid paying taxes?
You betcha, bring on some more of that fiscal conservatism.
Limited government as in subcontract out everything possible, like
Halliburton?
You betcha, less people employed by the government, thus smaller
government; however, same amount or more money and patronage is good
for fund raising.
It's all an accounting game.
"the integrity of the constitution".
Great glowing generalization, but what does it really mean?
If the gov't makes decision you agree with, then they are maintaining
"the integrity of the constitution".
If the gov't makes decision you disagree with, then they are not
maintaining "the integrity of the constitution".
Is that what "the integrity of the constitution" is all about?
Lew
CC wrote:
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:50537d7c-be6d-4906-ba20-3e880d25ee87@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
>> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
>> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
>> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>>
>> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
>> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
>> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
>> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
>
> It appears that the shine wore off within a week. After she referred
> to the ( and I kid you not) Palin/McCain ticket, things haven't gone
> well for her. Some polls show her down 21 % from a week ago.
>
> Shiny like a quarter coated with mercury, Pretty for a couple days then
> tarnished like an old penny
> CC
Saw parts of an interview she did with Sean Hannity. Hard ball
questions? More like hitting her with a balloon. Some questions on
important stuff like the economy (Do you think that when Obama said such
and so, he was right?) or war (Do you think McCain is more clear...) and
stuff like that. I guess I expected more.
j4
You want to compare VPs rofl...
"cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joe Biden's kids are lobbyists. I am sure there will be no favoritism
> there.......I've been wrong before.
>
> cm
> "Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I think you should give Obama the chance to lead.He doesn't have lobbyists
>>working his campaign,he doesn't take lobbyist money>
>
>
Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> If McCain went along, it's the second time for him. Remember the S&L
> crisis?
The cause or most contributing factor of the S & L crisis was the 1978-1979
deregulation of the industry under Carter. They removed Gov. oversight and
control but kept the Gov. guarantee of the accounts.
As the dust settles from the current financial crisis one will find at
least 4 pieces of legislation throughout the 90's that brought us to the
current mess. This legislation deregulated, required irresponsible lending
practices, allowed industry consolidation, lowered capital requirements
etc...... Rod
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> jo4hn wrote:
[snip]
>
> You realize the dems had sufficient number in the senate to effectively
> filibuster any effective reforms that were brought up, right? The
> Republicans didn't have free reign to push through anything they wanted.
> Coupled with the RINOS (Chaffee, Snow, Hagel, et al), there was no way that
> a reform of Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac would have been pushed through.
> Guess who benefited from Fannie Mae? Frankin Rains, Jamie Gurelick (sp?)
> both wound up with multi-million dollar bonuses while Fannie Mae was
> carrying out Barney Franks', Chris Dodd's, and Chuck Rangel's wishes of
> making loans to people who could not afford to repay them. The seeds for
> this were sown when in 1999, the Glass-Stegall act was repealed allowing
> banks and brokerage houses to merge.
>
> The Republicans often went along because to have denied lower income
> people access to "affordable housing" would have had them crucified in the
> press for being cold, elitist and heartless.
>
>
>
Well, lessee. Republicans who "went along" included Phil Gramm (R-TX)
in the senate and James Leach (R-IA) who introduced the bills. The bills
were passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in
the Senate and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives. After
passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference
committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House
versions. The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the
Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. This veto proof legislation
was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.
Guess there just were a whole bunch of Dems and just a handfull of
Republican. Sigh.
jo4hn
Robatoy wrote:
... snip
>
> Robert.... I can see how you drew that conclusion from Lew's post...
> but I think Lew's post is a hypothetical one.
> I read and re-read it, and it almost reads in a third person kinda
> way. He is pointing out that the Bubbas are often racist, I don't see
> how that makes him racist. We do agree that 'bubbas' exist, right?
> I bolt onto Lew's idea, that there are enough racists out there to
> make a statistical difference in the polls. Many pundits have already
> admitted that the polls don't really reflect that component of hidden
> racism. Many people polled will SAY they will vote for a black man,
> but won't when they're in the booth. Racism is a disgusting fact of
> reality.
... and you miss the point here. Just because people will say tell a
pollster they plan to vote for a minority candidate but then do not does
not mean that they are racist. It can also mean that they are afraid of
being called racist if they tell the pollster they won't vote for that
candidate even if that candidate does not reflect their political
ideological viewpoint. Doesn't mean they are racist, it means they have
been conditioned by our society to believe that any criticism or rejection
of a minority is equivalent to racism.
A reverse question for Lew is if he would vote for Michael Steele, JC
Watts, or Walter Williams if they were running. If not, should he be
considered racist?
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Robatoy wrote:
> On Sep 16, 1:14Â am, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > "Robatoy" wrote:
>>
>> > <snip, a lot of frustration>
>>
>> >>Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
>> > fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
>> > is wrong with you people???
>>
>> Do you even read the stuff you write? Â Blaming this all on the president
>> is ridiculous; your rantings make it seem like you believe that Bush is
>> spending every minute of every day plotting how he can make everone's
>> life miserable.
>
> I get it, Mark. He's blameless. He also didn't destroy the other
> companies he's run and ruined in his life.
> I didn't think it possible, but the current congress is even more
> inept than Bush.
>
> But you keep doing what you do best, Mark and keep making excuses for
> your Dear Leader, after all He has been doing God's work, right?
Not only don't you read what you write, you don't read what others write
either. I've criticized Bush when he deserves to be criticized (caving to
the left, letting Ted Kennedy write the education bill, amnesty for illegal
aliens, etc.). However, your projection is showing. As I showed in
another reply to this thread, Bush actually tried to do something but was
shot down and ridiculed by congress for even suggesting that Fannie Mae was
possibly in danger.
Your projection is showing, you accuse me of accepting everything Bush
does as an "adoring leader" while in reality, you have that exact feeling
in 180 degrees. Nothing Bush does, has done, or could do would be viewed by
you as other than absolute pure evil.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:50537d7c-be6d-4906-ba20-3e880d25ee87@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing
> of
> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican
> presidential
> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican
> nominee
> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long
> as
> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin
> is
> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
It appears that the shine wore off within a week. After she referred
to the ( and I kid you not) Palin/McCain ticket, things haven't gone
well for her. Some polls show her down 21 % from a week ago.
Shiny like a quarter coated with mercury, Pretty for a couple days
then
tarnished like an old penny
CC
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2d3d08e2-131b-440e-8587-15874d15242e@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> Are you going to throw Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi in too? I'm not sure
>> how
>> it works in Canada, but here in the US we have this thing called
>> "Congress".
>> It does things like approve spending and has the responsibility of
>> oversight
>> in a staggeringly broad number of areas. With your mutual fund comment,
>> I'm
>> guessing you're concerned about the financial markets. Max Baucus (D) is
>> the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Good ol' Barney Frank (D)
>> holds a similar position in the House. Chris Dodd (D) is the chairman of
>> the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. But I
>> know...anything bad that happens has the be Bush and Cheney's fault.
>> Don't worry. With any luck, the Messiah will be elected in November and
>> the
>> whole world will love the US again, and the financial markets will go up,
>> and everyone will get healthcare and a union job and we'll all just get
>> in a
>> big circle and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".
>>
>> todd
>If that is how you see the way things are... God help you. You need
>drugs.
>But I feel you are a troll, and that is based on the the fact that
>NOBODY can be that ignorant.
No, really, that's what Congress is supposed to be doing. I await your
condemnation of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
As for the last bit, that's sadly what the looney left in this country
believes about The One. Oh, and I forgot...global warming will be reversed.
I just hope The One's charisma and teleprompter-reading abilities don't do
such a number on global warming that he causes an ice age.
todd
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:14:16 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately many Republicans went along with the Democrats on these
>> policies, wanting to be perceived as willing to dole out money at the
>> public trough just as well as the Dems. That's what led to the loss of
>> Congress in 2006; why vote for a pretend Democrat when you can have the
>> real thing?
>
> If McCain went along, it's the second time for him. Remember the S&L
> crisis?
BTW, just found this. It looks like Bush wasn't asleep at the wheel. This
mess falls firmly in the laps of Congress, the likes of Chris Dodd and
Barney Frank:
<http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print>
Note that this was from 2003; the aforementioned congresscritters:
"''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any
kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank"
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:04:30 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Robatoy" wrote:
>
><snip, a lot of frustration>
>
>>Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
>fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
>is wrong with you people???
>
>Let's call a spade a spade.
>
>If it was not for the "Bubba" factor, Obama would have a runaway, but
>unfortunately "race" is still an issue in more parts of the USA than
>most of us will admit.
>
>When Bubba finally figures out that if Obama gets elected, the male
>blacks of the USA are not going to immediately be hell bent on
>grabbing Bubba's sister and heading for the nearest roadside motel.
>
>When that happens, a major break thru in race relations will have been
>accomplished.
>
>Lew
>
Lew, I live in Mississippi. The KKK (from out of state) recently
exercised their constitutional right to hold a rally on the courthouse
square in my town. Sixteen people showed up from a geographic market
area of 100,000. And I doubt those sixteen are registered voters.
Your assessment is more than just wrong. It is insulting to people
who have lived their whole lives in areas of significant demographic
racial diversity and have worked diligently to bring harmony and
equity. The "major breakthrough" is that fifty+ years of work.
Frank
On Sep 17, 11:17=A0pm, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
[snipped for brevity] =A0
>
> =A0 The Republicans often went along because to have denied lower income
> people access to "affordable housing" would have had them crucified in th=
e
> press for being cold, elitist and heartless. =A0
>
UNflippin-believable.
On Sep 17, 12:28=A0pm, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
> > Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:14:16 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> >>> Unfortunately many Republicans went along with the Democrats on these
> >>> policies, wanting to be perceived as willing to dole out money at the
> >>> public trough just as well as the Dems. =A0That's what led to the los=
s of
> >>> Congress in 2006; why vote for a pretend Democrat when you can have t=
he
> >>> real thing?
> >> If McCain went along, it's the second time for him. =A0Remember the S&=
L
> >> crisis?
>
> > BTW, just found this. =A0It looks like Bush wasn't asleep at the wheel.=
=A0This
> > mess falls firmly in the laps of Congress, the likes of Chris Dodd and
> > Barney Frank:
>
> > <http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=3D9E06E3D6123BF932A2575=
A...>
>
> > =A0 Note that this was from 2003; the aforementioned congresscritters:
> > "''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing a=
ny
> > kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank"
>
> Well, thank God that the Republicans had control of both houses. =A0This
> would never have gotten through a Democratic congress.
Heh. Yeah. Aren't we supposed to be living in clover now?
JP
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Let's call a spade a spade.
>
> If it was not for the "Bubba" factor, Obama would have a runaway, but
> unfortunately "race" is still an issue in more parts of the USA than
> most of us will admit.
>
> When Bubba finally figures out that if Obama gets elected, the male
> blacks of the USA are not going to immediately be hell bent on
> grabbing Bubba's sister and heading for the nearest roadside motel.
This is a great post to show how scrambled your head is...
>
> When that happens, a major break thru in race relations will have been
> accomplished.
Every conservative I know would vote in a pair of seconds for say Walter
Williams (a black man) over McCain or Obama ben Laden. Whatever a
"bubba" is, if he is remotely conservative, he would also vote for
Walter Williams. Race is a NON ISSUE to most white Americans. As it
stands, about 90% of black Americans support Obama. If you think 90% of
black Americans are left wing socialists like Obama is, you would be
very wrong. That my friend is about as racist as it gets in this
country. Obama is getting the black vote because he is black, and
probably a lot of the white vote because he is black. Racism is alive
and well alright, but it is 180 degrees from what you and the media paint.
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
On Sep 16, 1:37 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
I did not know what a Bubba was. I thought it was a bit more like that
character from Deer Hunter.
But as a synonym for 'regular folk'? Nope. Didn't know.
There ARE racists who will not vote for Obama because he is black.
They will vote for McCain. What does that tell you?
That racists prefer McCain?
Didn't think so.
Back to work.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You gotta be kidding me... do you have your white sheet on and your
torch? Don't lay off this off as the "lipstick on a pig" style
gaffe.
You are too smart to have said that in error. If it is a troll, shame
on you. If you meant it....
<snip a lot of misunderstanding>
I'm just the messenger of a message that started with Dick Armey,
former conservative Republican congressman from Texas.
Do yourself a favor and do a google: "dick+armey+bubba".
The "bubba factor" is not geography sensitive, it is racism as
practiced anyplace in this country.
It is also not people sensitive issue.
Blue collar or white collar, back room or board room, suburb, central
city or farm are not limiting factors.
Racism can/will rear it's ugly head at crunch time.
SFWIW, my views don't often agree with Armey, but his comments about
PA and OH (my former long time home) politics got my attention.
Unfortunately, his comments have merit.
As a professional politician, his comments about things political,
carry some weight.
Lew
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:14:16 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately many Republicans went along with the Democrats on these
>>> policies, wanting to be perceived as willing to dole out money at the
>>> public trough just as well as the Dems. That's what led to the loss of
>>> Congress in 2006; why vote for a pretend Democrat when you can have the
>>> real thing?
>> If McCain went along, it's the second time for him. Remember the S&L
>> crisis?
>
> BTW, just found this. It looks like Bush wasn't asleep at the wheel. This
> mess falls firmly in the laps of Congress, the likes of Chris Dodd and
> Barney Frank:
>
> <http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print>
>
> Note that this was from 2003; the aforementioned congresscritters:
> "''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any
> kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank"
>
Well, thank God that the Republicans had control of both houses. This
would never have gotten through a Democratic congress.
phew,
j4
On Sep 19, 3:47=A0pm, "CC" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:50537d7c-be6d-4906-ba20-3e880d25ee87@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> > independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing
> > of
> > her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican
> > presidential
> > candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
> > Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican
> > nominee
> > for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long
> > as
> > it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin
> > is
> > "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
>
> It appears that the shine wore off within a week. After she referred
> to the ( and I kid you not) Palin/McCain ticket, things haven't gone
> well for her. Some polls show her down 21 % from a week ago.
>
> Shiny like a quarter coated with mercury, Pretty for a couple days
> then
> tarnished like an old penny
> CC
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-onthemedia26-2008se=
p26,0,3542588.story
"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
> Your assessment is more than just wrong. It is insulting to people
> who have lived their whole lives in areas of significant demographic
> racial diversity and have worked diligently to bring harmony and
> equity. The "major breakthrough" is that fifty+ years of work.
You missed it, it was not a vicious personal attack of a region or a
specific group of people.
See response to Robert (nailshooter).
Lew
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:56:59 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
>
>> Your assessment is more than just wrong. It is insulting to people
>> who have lived their whole lives in areas of significant demographic
>> racial diversity and have worked diligently to bring harmony and
>> equity. The "major breakthrough" is that fifty+ years of work.
>
>You missed it, it was not a vicious personal attack of a region or a
>specific group of people.
>
>See response to Robert (nailshooter).
>
>Lew
>
No Lew, I don't get it. IIRC this is the second thread you've started
using race as an excuse for the candidate you seem to support
potentially not being elected.
I'm sick of people who can't seem to fathom that when a candidate
loses an election, that it might just be a problem with the candidates
ideology rather than a flaw in the electorate. He or she lost because
of racism, sexism, lack of intelligence in group A, rednecks in
reagion B, ......fill in your own.
"There has to be something wrong with you people. I'm just too
intelligent to be wrong about my ideology".
Frank
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
>> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
>> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
>> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>>
>> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
>> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
>> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
>> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
>I guess what I was trying to say...is when are you spineless bastards
>going to toss those corrupt militaristic extortionists in jail?
>Better yet... hang the bastards!! Bush and Cheney deserve a tribunal!
>Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
>fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
>is wrong with you people???
Are you going to throw Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi in too? I'm not sure how
it works in Canada, but here in the US we have this thing called "Congress".
It does things like approve spending and has the responsibility of oversight
in a staggeringly broad number of areas. With your mutual fund comment, I'm
guessing you're concerned about the financial markets. Max Baucus (D) is
the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Good ol' Barney Frank (D)
holds a similar position in the House. Chris Dodd (D) is the chairman of
the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. But I
know...anything bad that happens has the be Bush and Cheney's fault.
Don't worry. With any luck, the Messiah will be elected in November and the
whole world will love the US again, and the financial markets will go up,
and everyone will get healthcare and a union job and we'll all just get in a
big circle and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".
todd
I wrote:
> Let's call a spade a spade.
>
> If it was not for the "Bubba" factor, Obama would have a runaway,
> but unfortunately "race" is still an issue in more parts of the USA
> than most of us will admit.
>........................................................................
Other sources such as AP-Yahoo.com, and at least one local TV station
here are reporting that a 6 point spread between Obama and McCain
exists because of race.
Seems to be particularily pronounced in the "rust belt", if the
following is any indication.
>..................................................................................
"We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting
the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset,
Ohio.
>..................................................................................
The above from an AP report.
http://www.thereporter.com/wirenews/ci_10523402
Lew
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
> I agree. No matter what people are saying publicly, I know of a
> couple of people that just won't pull the lever for a non-white.
> Now my little world does not constitute the demographics of the
> country, but I've heard a few times things like " I'm not
> prejudiced, but . . . . . "
" I'm not prejudiced, but . . . . . "
A phrase that rings in my years.
Have heard it many times, many times from family members, mostly from
people who grew up in a different time.
Lew
I think you should give Obama the chance to lead.He doesn't have lobbyists
working his campaign,he doesn't take lobbyist money ,He will try to build
the middle class,he wants affordable healthcare for everyone,he isn't afraid
and so doesn't try to make you feel afraid,he is a great communicator.I
could go on.I have trouble listing the same for Mccain.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>
>
> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:54:29 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sep 15, 11:49 pm, "todd" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >On Sep 15, 10:35 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an
>> >> independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of
>> >> her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential
>> >> candidate John McCain said Monday.
>>
>> >> Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan initially said Palin, the Republican nominee
>> >> for vice president, would not testify as part of the probe "as long as
>> >> it remains tainted." He later clarified his statement to say Palin is
>> >> "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry.
>> >I guess what I was trying to say...is when are you spineless bastards
>> >going to toss those corrupt militaristic extortionists in jail?
>> >Better yet... hang the bastards!! Bush and Cheney deserve a tribunal!
>> >Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
>> >fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
>> >is wrong with you people???
>>
>> Are you going to throw Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi in too? I'm not sure how
>> it works in Canada, but here in the US we have this thing called "Congress".
>> It does things like approve spending and has the responsibility of oversight
>> in a staggeringly broad number of areas. With your mutual fund comment, I'm
>> guessing you're concerned about the financial markets. Max Baucus (D) is
>> the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Good ol' Barney Frank (D)
>> holds a similar position in the House. Chris Dodd (D) is the chairman of
>> the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. But I
>> know...anything bad that happens has the be Bush and Cheney's fault.
>> Don't worry. With any luck, the Messiah will be elected in November and the
>> whole world will love the US again, and the financial markets will go up,
>> and everyone will get healthcare and a union job and we'll all just get in a
>> big circle and hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".
>>
>> todd
>
>If that is how you see the way things are... God help you. You need
>drugs.
>But I feel you are a troll, and that is based on the the fact that
>NOBODY can be that ignorant.
I would suggest that he's telling it like it is. A troll is in the
eye of the beholder and subtly gets you style points. Your initial
post certainly gets high marks.
The root cause of the financial meltdown is in leveraged real estate
loans that went bad. These loans are mostly loans that should not
have been made. They were made to people who could not hope to pay
them back in the event that the value of the properties so encumbered
was temporary and artificial as anyone in their right mind should have
known.
Subprime mortgages were made, for the most part, to the constituents
of the party that does not currently hold the executive branch of the
government at the urging, pressuring and oversight of the alternative
party. Hey, happy, new, low income homeowners means a sure vote for
the other guys.
Since the chain of shame included far too many entities that had no
skin in the game, risk was not properly assessed. Every entitiy
bundled it up, dressed it nice, made it look clean and passed it on.
It hit the end of the trail at Fannie, Freddie, and the big investment
houses and large regional banks that were happily engaged in "free"
enterprise. And neither party stepped in to provide any oversight,
both happily getting what they wanted.
Since the world economy is based on credit and, statistically
speaking, no one in this generation seems to be on a "pay as you go
basis" this is what we get when the game gets interfered with and
go's bad.
Did you really think that that house in "wherever" America that was
worth $200,000, five years ago, properly valued considering land
development and construction cost, is worth three times that five
years later? If so, you should reconsider your assessment of
ignorance.
Frank
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:14:16 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Unfortunately many Republicans went along with the Democrats on these
> policies, wanting to be perceived as willing to dole out money at the
> public trough just as well as the Dems. That's what led to the loss of
> Congress in 2006; why vote for a pretend Democrat when you can have the
> real thing?
If McCain went along, it's the second time for him. Remember the S&L
crisis?
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:37:11 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> Let me put it in vernacular that a Lew would understand. A friend of
> mine told me, "I am so sick of all this political shit, I would vote
> for the sombitch that could fix things if it was a Chinese/Black
> lesbian single mother crack addicted transexual club footed monkey
> whose father was Rush Limbaugh."
You had me till you got to Rush :-).
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:54:21 -0700, Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
> As the dust settles from the current financial crisis one will find at
> least 4 pieces of legislation throughout the 90's that brought us to the
> current mess. This legislation deregulated, required irresponsible lending
> practices, allowed industry consolidation, lowered capital requirements
> etc...... Rod
Agreed, but most say that the bill Gramm introduced and McCain supported
did most of the damage. Gramm is now McCain's economic advisor :-).
> "Robatoy" wrote:
>
> <snip, a lot of frustration>
>
>>Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
> fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
> is wrong with you people???
>
Do you even read the stuff you write? Blaming this all on the president
is ridiculous; your rantings make it seem like you believe that Bush is
spending every minute of every day plotting how he can make everone's life
miserable. Does the name "Chris Dodd" mean anything to you, read anything
about Countrywide? Have you heard of the hand-wringing and screaming that
occurred years ago about "affordable loans" and "housing for all"? Freddie
Mac and Fannie May (formed in 1939) as "private government agencies"?
While the president can be faulted for not standing up to the special
interests who pushed through requirements that financial institutions make
loans to people who would not be able to repay (he'd have lost on that too,
then he'd have been labeled as cold-hearted and an elitist), the blame
firmly falls on those in congress who pushed through the legislation that
tied federal backing for loans to the generation of non-repayable loans.
Unfortunately many Republicans went along with the Democrats on these
policies, wanting to be perceived as willing to dole out money at the
public trough just as well as the Dems. That's what led to the loss of
Congress in 2006; why vote for a pretend Democrat when you can have the
real thing?
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:16:06 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Robert.... I can see how you drew that conclusion from Lew's post...
>but I think Lew's post is a hypothetical one.
>I read and re-read it, and it almost reads in a third person kinda
>way. He is pointing out that the Bubbas are often racist, I don't see
>how that makes him racist.
Robert didn't call Lew a racist. Robert accuses Lew of presenting a
kind of arrogance, ignorance, condescension, and bigotry that's just
as repugnant as racism.
And he's right.
--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3fbf68f9-177a-441f-b5f9-69d7a9e4e309@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>Does Obama have any friends who make voting machines?
He doesn't need to. He's a Chicago politician. Around here, you don't need
a trick voting machine to fix an election, if that's your implication.
todd
"Robatoy" wrote:
<snip, a lot of frustration>
>Our Mutual Funds ( yes, even in Canada) have been reduced to fucking
fodder because of the incompetence of your Dear Leader!! What the hell
is wrong with you people???
Let's call a spade a spade.
If it was not for the "Bubba" factor, Obama would have a runaway, but
unfortunately "race" is still an issue in more parts of the USA than
most of us will admit.
When Bubba finally figures out that if Obama gets elected, the male
blacks of the USA are not going to immediately be hell bent on
grabbing Bubba's sister and heading for the nearest roadside motel.
When that happens, a major break thru in race relations will have been
accomplished.
Lew