"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>
> Be careful; Laguna can be hit-n-miss. While I love my bandsaw, I'm not
> quite so enamoured of the horizontal mortiser. The bandaw was built in
> Bulgaria, the Mortiser in China.
>
> (The 220V 3HP mortiser came with a NEMA 5-15P instead of a 6-20P plug, and
> was a different unit than the unit in the video on their web site; the
> unit
> in the video had a mitre slot and mitre gauge, the newer unit has a
> useless
> mitre-gauge handle with no mitre slot milled on the table. Someday I'll
> post
> a more complete review of the unit; it's a good value for the price, but
> milling mortices in rail ends requires a shop-made fence).
>
> scott
IIRC the competitively priced equipment that looks like the traditional
equipment that we easily recognize is mostly made in China. Then there is
the Bulgaria equipment that has been around longer and there is the top of
the line Italian stuff.
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 23:24:05 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>
>"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> marc rosen wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>>
>> One comment, yeah... :)
>>
>> Why would one need a Unisaw when already have a Model 66? <gd&r>
>
>Or a couple nice rip and cross-cut panel hand saws?
Disston and Atkins will do nicely, but my ryoba from Japan Woodworker
gets most of my time nowadays.
--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor
the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:31:59 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The Laguna looks better when surrounded with Festool as a garnish. ;~)
Let me guess. All your Festool toys are gathered around your Laguna
bandsaw. :)
Speaking about Laguna, I had a good look through their web site.
Really liked their push button operated panel saw that cuts to .005
tolerances.
Must run and buy my lottery ticket.
On Jun 3, 12:06=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/3/2010 11:55 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Steve Turner" =A0wrote
>
> >> The first thought I had when I saw the old Unisaw had been discontinue=
d in
> >> favor of this new one: =A0If you're going to compete in the SawStop's
> >> pricing territory, you'd better have a _much_ better product or you're
> >> going to have a dud on your hands. =A0If this new machine goes belly-u=
p and
> >> gets discontinued, that leaves Delta without any high-end offering at
> >> all... Reintroduce the "Unisaw Classic" with a riving knife and a
> >> competitive price and I'd bet they sell like hot cakes.
>
> > An Asute observation.
>
> > I used to work in marketing research. One big problems that a lot of bi=
z
> > folks had is that they only saw competition as with themselves. The res=
t of
> > the world did not matter. They only competed with themselves. For some
> > folks, that worked. Like the HP printers. They obsoleted their own prod=
ucts.
> > So it worked for them.
>
> > Like you pointed out, Sawstop is a game changer in its price/features r=
ange.
> > Either Delta has to take them on directly or go to another catagory of =
the
> > tablesaw market. =A0They need to directly address the competition out t=
here in
> > the world. NOT compete with one of their own OLD products. A lot of fol=
ks
> > don't get that comcept. A lot of businesses die because of this.
>
> > There also is an obsession with the top end of the market. Many compani=
es
> > want a high end product for prestige and a bigger markup/profit. What t=
hey
> > don't get, apparently, is that even on the top end, THERE IS COMPETITIO=
N!
> > And if you are late to that market, you are fighting an uphill battle. =
You
> > better have something that people want. You better have some way that y=
ou
> > can distinguish your product from the others. Or you have just another =
late
> > to market, forgettable product.
>
> What I'm seeing is that it's got a lot of "yeah, it would be nice to
> have that" features but no "I'm gonna go drop 3 grand on a new saw to
> have that" features.
Correct. I didn't pay half that for the feature when buying a new
saw. I certainly wouldn't replace the saw for the feature.
"Steve Turner" wrote
>
> The first thought I had when I saw the old Unisaw had been discontinued in
> favor of this new one: If you're going to compete in the SawStop's
> pricing territory, you'd better have a _much_ better product or you're
> going to have a dud on your hands. If this new machine goes belly-up and
> gets discontinued, that leaves Delta without any high-end offering at
> all... Reintroduce the "Unisaw Classic" with a riving knife and a
> competitive price and I'd bet they sell like hot cakes.
>
An Asute observation.
I used to work in marketing research. One big problems that a lot of biz
folks had is that they only saw competition as with themselves. The rest of
the world did not matter. They only competed with themselves. For some
folks, that worked. Like the HP printers. They obsoleted their own products.
So it worked for them.
Like you pointed out, Sawstop is a game changer in its price/features range.
Either Delta has to take them on directly or go to another catagory of the
tablesaw market. They need to directly address the competition out there in
the world. NOT compete with one of their own OLD products. A lot of folks
don't get that comcept. A lot of businesses die because of this.
There also is an obsession with the top end of the market. Many companies
want a high end product for prestige and a bigger markup/profit. What they
don't get, apparently, is that even on the top end, THERE IS COMPETITION!
And if you are late to that market, you are fighting an uphill battle. You
better have something that people want. You better have some way that you
can distinguish your product from the others. Or you have just another late
to market, forgettable product.
"J. Clarke" wrote
>
> What I'm seeing is that it's got a lot of "yeah, it would be nice to have
> that" features but no "I'm gonna go drop 3 grand on a new saw to have
> that" features.
>
Yep, There are the cheap knock offs. And there is the high end product. But
not a lot between.
And there is a BIG market out there for a good middle of the road product
and tools. Both in terms of serious amatuers and small business folks.. It
is a big market that is often not served well by many manufacturers.
I think that the reason that Grizzly has doine so well is that they have a
wide range of products in each catagory. Everything from cheapo hobbyist
models to big industrial models. And everything in between. You can choose
the exact level of price/performance/features you need.
Which is why a lot of businesses buy Grizzly. They represent a good value.
And it is very easy to buy them too. No shiny shoed salesman or pushy
distributors. And often, no local taxes.
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:49:05 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hey all,
>Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
Nope. I have a new(ish) old one.
Leon wrote:
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "marc rosen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:7b77c4d7-
[email protected]...
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>
>>> From what I understand from the Woodcraft guys, if the new Unisaw is
>>> setting
>>> next to a SawStop TS the SawStop sells. My local Woodcraft has not yet
>>> sold it's first new Unisaw since it got the saw last year.
>>
>> Did he mention what it was that was driving people away from the Unisaw?
>
> More than a few times they mentioned that for pretty much the same price
> the SawStop offers a finger saver and at the very least the same quality.
>
Other features the same, quality the same, plus the added safety feature.
Yep, that would swing things toward SawStop pretty quickly.
Sometimes companies get to a point where they are running on their
reputation. It works for a while, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, but
in the end, the company loses its place. Too bad, Unisaw and Delta were the
gold standard; sounds like the downward spiral is tightening.
> Additionally SawStop is getting ready to come out with its 3rd cabinet
> saw, runs on 110 volt.
--
There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
Rob Leatham
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 14:41:17 -0400, Pat Barber <[email protected]>
wrote:
>$3,000 is a real chunk for the average homeowner.
If the average home owner is going to spend that kind of money, then
they might consider a Laguna scoring tablesaw for as little as $795
more. Should be sufficient to give bragging rights in front of all the
other homeowners on the street.
http://www.lagunatools.com/tablesaws/tablesaw-tsws
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> "marc rosen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:7b77c4d7-d646-445f-9b97-891f8d8a9fe5@s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>>> Hey all,
>>> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>
>> From what I understand from the Woodcraft guys, if the new Unisaw is
>> setting
>> next to a SawStop TS the SawStop sells. My local Woodcraft has not yet
>> sold it's first new Unisaw since it got the saw last year.
>
> Did he mention what it was that was driving people away from the Unisaw?
More than a few times they mentioned that for pretty much the same price the
SawStop offers a finger saver and at the very least the same quality.
Additionally SawStop is getting ready to come out with its 3rd cabinet saw,
runs on 110 volt.
"Leon" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:31:59 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The Laguna looks better when surrounded with Festool as a garnish. ;~)
>>
>> Let me guess. All your Festool toys are gathered around your Laguna
>> bandsaw. :)
>>
>> Speaking about Laguna, I had a good look through their web site.
>> Really liked their push button operated panel saw that cuts to .005
>> tolerances.
>>
>> Must run and buy my lottery ticket.
>
>Laguna products can be as addicting as Festool. About 4 years ago I decided
>to up grade my BS and went with a Rikon 18"er. I took it back as it was
>marginally better than what I had when considering features I was looking
>for. I looked into Laguna and sent of for their demo CD and that was that.
>They have/had a demo CD/DVD that goes really well with a bowl of pop corn.
>
Be careful; Laguna can be hit-n-miss. While I love my bandsaw, I'm not
quite so enamoured of the horizontal mortiser. The bandaw was built in
Bulgaria, the Mortiser in China.
(The 220V 3HP mortiser came with a NEMA 5-15P instead of a 6-20P plug, and
was a different unit than the unit in the video on their web site; the unit
in the video had a mitre slot and mitre gauge, the newer unit has a useless
mitre-gauge handle with no mitre slot milled on the table. Someday I'll post
a more complete review of the unit; it's a good value for the price, but
milling mortices in rail ends requires a shop-made fence).
scott
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> marc rosen wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>
> One comment, yeah... :)
>
> Why would one need a Unisaw when already have a Model 66? <gd&r>
Or a couple nice rip and cross-cut panel hand saws?
"marc rosen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7b77c4d7-d646-445f-9b97-891f8d8a9fe5@s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> Hey all,
> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>
> Marc
From what I understand from the Woodcraft guys, if the new Unisaw is setting
next to a SawStop TS the SawStop sells. My local Woodcraft has not yet sold
it's first new Unisaw since it got the saw last year.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 14:41:17 -0400, Pat Barber <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>$3,000 is a real chunk for the average homeowner.
>
> If the average home owner is going to spend that kind of money, then
> they might consider a Laguna scoring tablesaw for as little as $795
> more. Should be sufficient to give bragging rights in front of all the
> other homeowners on the street.
>
> http://www.lagunatools.com/tablesaws/tablesaw-tsws
The Laguna looks better when surrounded with Festool as a garnish. ;~)
>
On Jun 4, 12:08=A0am, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
> > "marc rosen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:7b77c4d7-d646-445f-9b97-891f8d8a9fe5@s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com..=
.
> >> Hey all,
> >> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? =A0Any comments? =A0Than=
ks,
>
> >> Marc
>
> > From what I understand from the Woodcraft guys, if the new Unisaw is
> > setting
> > next to a SawStop TS the SawStop sells. =A0My local Woodcraft has not y=
et
> > sold it's first new Unisaw since it got the saw last year.
>
> =A0 Did he mention what it was that was driving people away from the Unis=
aw?
I would assume it was its price.
On 06/03/2010 09:53 AM, Leon wrote:
> "marc rosen"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:7b77c4d7-d646-445f-9b97-891f8d8a9fe5@s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>> Hey all,
>> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>>
>> Marc
>
> From what I understand from the Woodcraft guys, if the new Unisaw is setting
> next to a SawStop TS the SawStop sells. My local Woodcraft has not yet sold
> it's first new Unisaw since it got the saw last year.
The first thought I had when I saw the old Unisaw had been discontinued in favor of this new
one: If you're going to compete in the SawStop's pricing territory, you'd better have a
_much_ better product or you're going to have a dud on your hands. If this new machine goes
belly-up and gets discontinued, that leaves Delta without any high-end offering at all...
Reintroduce the "Unisaw Classic" with a riving knife and a competitive price and I'd bet
they sell like hot cakes.
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 6/3/2010 11:55 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Steve Turner" wrote
>>
>> The first thought I had when I saw the old Unisaw had been discontinued in
>> favor of this new one: If you're going to compete in the SawStop's
>> pricing territory, you'd better have a _much_ better product or you're
>> going to have a dud on your hands. If this new machine goes belly-up and
>> gets discontinued, that leaves Delta without any high-end offering at
>> all... Reintroduce the "Unisaw Classic" with a riving knife and a
>> competitive price and I'd bet they sell like hot cakes.
>>
> An Asute observation.
>
> I used to work in marketing research. One big problems that a lot of biz
> folks had is that they only saw competition as with themselves. The rest of
> the world did not matter. They only competed with themselves. For some
> folks, that worked. Like the HP printers. They obsoleted their own products.
> So it worked for them.
>
> Like you pointed out, Sawstop is a game changer in its price/features range.
> Either Delta has to take them on directly or go to another catagory of the
> tablesaw market. They need to directly address the competition out there in
> the world. NOT compete with one of their own OLD products. A lot of folks
> don't get that comcept. A lot of businesses die because of this.
>
> There also is an obsession with the top end of the market. Many companies
> want a high end product for prestige and a bigger markup/profit. What they
> don't get, apparently, is that even on the top end, THERE IS COMPETITION!
> And if you are late to that market, you are fighting an uphill battle. You
> better have something that people want. You better have some way that you
> can distinguish your product from the others. Or you have just another late
> to market, forgettable product.
What I'm seeing is that it's got a lot of "yeah, it would be nice to
have that" features but no "I'm gonna go drop 3 grand on a new saw to
have that" features.
Leon wrote:
>
> "marc rosen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:7b77c4d7-d646-445f-9b97-891f8d8a9fe5@s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>> Hey all,
>> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>>
>> Marc
>
> From what I understand from the Woodcraft guys, if the new Unisaw is
> setting
> next to a SawStop TS the SawStop sells. My local Woodcraft has not yet
> sold it's first new Unisaw since it got the saw last year.
Did he mention what it was that was driving people away from the Unisaw?
--
There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
Rob Leatham
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:31:59 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>The Laguna looks better when surrounded with Festool as a garnish. ;~)
>
> Let me guess. All your Festool toys are gathered around your Laguna
> bandsaw. :)
>
> Speaking about Laguna, I had a good look through their web site.
> Really liked their push button operated panel saw that cuts to .005
> tolerances.
>
> Must run and buy my lottery ticket.
Laguna products can be as addicting as Festool. About 4 years ago I decided
to up grade my BS and went with a Rikon 18"er. I took it back as it was
marginally better than what I had when considering features I was looking
for. I looked into Laguna and sent of for their demo CD and that was that.
They have/had a demo CD/DVD that goes really well with a bowl of pop corn.
I think the $$$$ is the show stopper.
Nice features, but is it worth the extra $1500 over the
older Unisaw ?
$3,000 is a real chunk for the average homeowner.
I have a 1966 12/14" Delta and a 1973 Unisaw that I need
to restore.
I'm good for the duration.
marc rosen wrote:
> Hey all,
> Anyone here own or have tried the new Unisaw? Any comments? Thanks,
>
> Marc