Rob H. wrote:
>
>>
>> VIDEO !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsOb_jFzhYw
>> --
>> Snag
>
>
> Thanks for the links! Great job on finding that, I discovered a similar
> video to the one you posted except with a larger pipe, here is the link
> I put on my answer page:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2UsGz7GVyM&eurl
>
>
> Rob
In the American patents I found, the guide ring is called a ring gear.
A worm gear on the robot engages cogs on the ring. I don't know if the
Australian guide ring has cogs on the underside.
The Australian ring is about an inch from the pipe. This would allow
space for rollers by which the robot would grip the ring. On the
welding side, the robot has a skirt extending almost to the pipe.
The mystery ring has hooked rods. Wouldn't they preclude use with the
Australian robot and other robots? Anyway, why would a guide ring have
those rods or those "handles"?
A guide ring would be used with perhaps three robots and a control
station. Wouldn't all those items travel on the same vehicle?
The truck has reels for gas lines, but the welding cables are hanging.
Wouldn't a company that invested in automatic welding also invest in
cable reels? They would save labor and cables and keep the workplace
less cluttered.
On Dec 1, 3:58=A0am, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> How about this scenario? =A0Somebody who normally services vehicles in th=
e
> field applied for a job on a pipeline. =A0He passed his welding test and
> got put on a waiting list. =A0A foreman told him what they really needed
> were independent contractors.
>
> The foreman gave him an old guide ring. =A0The applicant got a pair of
> discarded oxygen tanks that were no longer fit for medical use. =A0If you
> saw the truck a week later, the tanks would be certified and painted and
> in a rack where the refrigerant is now.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
It could also be a 'catch all' vehicle, where odds and ends get
stashed. A broken beveling band, some empty cylinders, spare hoses, an
ammocan with (or without) welding rods, whatnot.
It does look like it's parked at a hotel during work hours....
--riverman
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are using
>> tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . I
>> believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the more
>> flexible sidewalls .
>
> Sunofagun. Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes along and
> tells ya that ya don't. I hate it when that happens. I really was not
> aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.
>
Some trailers no longer have a dual wheel/tire but one big wide-ass tire
instead.
On Nov 27, 7:31=A0pm, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number 1473=
,
> maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Rob
Nice set. Can't even guess at a couple, but that won't stop me from
trying.
1471: It seems that something can fit inside the grooved ends, with
the steel 'spring' locking it in place. At first, before I saw that it
was one-sided, I thought maybe it held a pool cue or something, but
now I think it might be made to be hung on the handle of a pail to
make it easier to carry. The two-sided grooves means it can be
attached by twisting it on, and the springs keeps the wooden piece
from slipping down the handle, or falling off.
1472: Drive motor for an electric garage door opener. The slots are so
that the slave gear can disconnect in case the door jams.
1473: Why do I instinctively think of a big bass drum in a marching
band...? Or, if this is an electrician's truck, the ring around a gas
station sign like this:
http://tinyurl.com/64u8lm
1474: A novelty boot jack: http://tinyurl.com/6m97fx
1475: A hay bale lifter like on the front of this tractor, but
midified to use in a barn:
http://tinyurl.com/67had6
1476: A diamond cutting machine.
--riverman
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number 1473,
>maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1467 Same trade Rob, but not the same purpose!
Top is a wheel cutting engine
Middle looks like an uprighting tool
Bottom is a watchmakers lathe, fitted with a "mandrel" face plate. The Lathe
looks English, probably a Lorch.
All are watcmakers/clockmakers tools.
Steve R.
On Nov 27, 6:31=A0am, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number 1473=
,
> maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Rob
I'd guess 1473 is an overhead rack for pots and pans, probably out of
a restaurant or commercial kitchen.
I'd guess that #1476 are all wheel cutting engines for watch and clock
making.
On Nov 30, 9:07=A0am, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> =A0 Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are =
using
> >> tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . =
I
> >> believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the mor=
e
> >> flexible sidewalls .
>
> > Sunofagun. =A0Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes alon=
g and
> > tells ya that ya don't. =A0I hate it when that happens. =A0I really was=
not
> > aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.
>
> Some trailers no longer have a dual wheel/tire but one big wide-ass tire
> instead.
They got away from the split rims for safety purposes too. Many people
injured/killed when servicing the split rims, becdause the ring would
come loose under pressure. Most either used a safety cage when
inflating them or put the ring side down.
Those big tires are called "super singles", and are OK for some
things, but they're terrible in snow country or even in fresh rain
with a light load. Some outfits use them on the drive axles of the
tractors, and they'll spin loose real easy.
Norm
If I walk into a bank with #1474, I could get enough money to buy the
rest of these gadgets.
#1475 is what you'll get if you get caught trying this stunt.
;-)
--
Paul Hovnanian [email protected]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
Rob H. wrote:
> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number
> 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
>
Geez, that looks an awful lot like one of those things that
waitresses clip their orders to which the cook then spins around to see
each one in turn............ Ticket rail?
Pete
--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.
Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919)
In article <[email protected]>,
Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number 1473,
> maybe someone here will recognize it.
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Well I don't know what item 1476 is but I have a mechanism here which
looks very much like the major part of the third picture.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/pic1476d.jpg
I was going to clean it up and send in some pictures in the hope that
someone might be able to identify it.
--
Stuart Winsor
Don't miss the Risc OS Christmas show
http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/mug/show08/MUGshow.html
On Nov 28, 11:44=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> humunculus wrote:
> > On Nov 28, 11:20 pm, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> E Z Peaces wrote:
> >>> E Z Peaces wrote:
> >>>> Rob H. wrote:
> >>>>> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in
> >>>>> number 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> >>>>>http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> >>>>> Rob
>
> >> Patent 4997020 is for a device where a metal band of several
> >> sections
> >> would be tightened around a truck tire to seat the bead. It says
> >> putting a strap around the tire was an established method, but this
> >> would result in asymmetrical pressure, due in part to friction
> >> between the strap and the rubber.
>
> >> 1473 could reduce friction in tightening a strap. The hooks could
> >> also be a means of compensating for asymmetrical pressure by
> >> exerting pull between hooks across the circle.
>
> > I dunno...the patent device seems to be made of a series (at least
> > 3)
> > sections that can overlap, so tighening the device reduces the
> > circumference. This thing seems pretty solid.
>
> > Some observations: the 'handles' are directly opposite that D-shaped
> > stain on the opposite side. It might be the bottom, with the two
> > handles on top at 10:00 and 2:00.
>
> > The truck seems to be a welder's truck....does this have anything to
> > do with welding? If not, could it be something he is taking back to
> > be
> > repaired?
>
> > Around the rim of the ring are 7 'rods' that extend beyond the ring.
> > Are the ends of these rods bent outward, or are there little 'knobs'
> > at the top? And between each rod are 5 small angled things, that
> > look
> > like they could be used to secure a flat plate on to the ring.
>
> > Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
> > answered.
>
> The thing that's bugging me is that I feel like I've seen one of those
> damn things somewhere and I have no idea where it was.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Wild guess here - Could it have anything to do with pipeline work? I
see a lot of trucks like this in the East Texas area, several right
here in the RV park we stay in, and these guys are doing gas/oil
pipeliune construction. Still don't know what that big ring is for,
but just thought I might throw in an alternative employment for the
vehicle.
On Nov 29, 10:17=A0pm, humunculus <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Nov 29, 10:45=A0pm, Nahmie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Wild guess here - Could it have anything to do with pipeline work? I
> > see a lot of trucks like this in the East Texas area, several right
> > here in the RV park we stay in, and these guys are doing gas/oil
> > pipeliune construction. Still don't know what that big ring is for,
> > but just thought I might throw in an alternative employment for the
> > vehicle.-
>
> Show this picture to one of the guys with a truck like this, and ask
> him what the ring is for!
>
> --riverman
Senior moment . . . haven't seen any welders here this month. Had
about 6 of them last winter.
Norm
On Nov 27, 8:43=A0pm, humunculus <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1473: Or, if this is an electrician's truck, the ring around a gas
> station sign like this:http://tinyurl.com/64u8lm
>
Or this?
http://flickr.com/photos/delina/2115310294/
Kinda sorta?
--riverman
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:54:27 -0500, E Z Peaces cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:
>
> The circumference of a tire doesn't seem to compress. I think that's
> why it takes so much tension to seat a bead by pulling a rope around the
> tread. Friction is a problem between a tire and a strap that stretches
> under tension. It might not be an issue between a tire and metal band
> that wasn't under tension and didn't stretch.
Of course the circumfrance of a tire compresses. Don't over complicate
this - simply let some air out of a tire and watch the circumfrance
compress.
>
> If the band can flex, pressure under a strap at the center would not
> mean pressure at the edges where the screws are. The hooked rods would
> transfer pressure across the tread to the shoulders. I suppose each
> hooked rod could be pulled separately by a chain and a pry bar at the
> hub hole of the rim.
No need for all of this elboration to simply seat a bead.
>
> A neighbor who has driven trucks for 30 years pulled in tonight. I
> described the mystery ring and asked if it might be to seat the bead of
> a truck tire. He said bands like that are used, and it's much safer
> than squirting ether into the casing, igniting it from a few yards away,
> and watching the tire fly into the air.
Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car tire.
They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a tire.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:20:51 -0500, E Z Peaces cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:
>
> At the center of the contact patch, the tread will be closer to the hub
> than before, but the tread will be as long as before. At the ends of
> the contact patch, the tread will be farther from the hub than before.
>
> The subject has been discussed in rec.puzzles: will tire pressure affect
> speedometer readings? I got a surveying tape, parked on a level stretch
> of smooth pavement, and used masking tape and a plumb bob to mark the
> pavement below the center of the rear hub and the sidewall at that spot.
> Then I rolled exactly ten revolutions and measured exactly how far the
> hub had gone. (It was about 60 feet.)
>
> Then I let air out until the hub was 10% closer to the pavement. I
> repeated the rolling experiment. One might say the radius had shrunk
> 10%, so the distance would be about 6 feet less. As closely as I could
> measure, it was 1/16" less. For all I know, it was the same; it's hard
> to mark and measure so accurately on asphalt pavement. (I've always
> wanted to repeat the test on a really smooth surface.)
>
Ahhh - now I see what you were referring to. Sorry - I could not take that
out of your original statement. With this, I now agree with your earlier
statement.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car
> tire. They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a
> tire.
Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are using
tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . I
believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the more
flexible sidewalls .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number 1473,
>maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1471 I am going to guess that this is a grip extension of some kind. My
thoughts keep coming back to archery and that this would go on the bow but
I'm not too sure about that.
1472 My first thought was that its a worm from a worm reduction gear but not
sure now I have seen smaller versions of this setup that operate door locks.
So maybe this would be for a high security vault?
1473 no idea apart from a connector for two bits of ducting.
1474 Again no idea my only thoughts would be an ornament.
1475 Hay bale grabber?
1476 I am guessing that these are for making watch gears.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:56:14 -0600, Terry Coombs cast forth these
> pearls of wisdom...:
>
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car
>>> tire. They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating
>>> a tire.
>>
>> Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are
>> using tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller
>> cousins . I believe radial tires are what makes this possible ,
>> because of the more flexible sidewalls .
>
> Sunofagun. Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes
> along and tells ya that ya don't. I hate it when that happens. I
> really was not aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.
Another aspect of that is the weight issue . Stamped steel rims are
lighter , leaving more of the gross weight limitations for cargo . And the
more ya can haul , the more money ya can make .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
>> 1467 Same trade Rob, but not the same purpose!
>
>
> Good point, I had meant that they were all used for making one particular
> device.
>
>
>> Top is a wheel cutting engine
>>
>> Middle looks like an uprighting tool
>>
>> Bottom is a watchmakers lathe, fitted with a "mandrel" face plate. The
>> Lathe looks English, probably a Lorch.
>>
>> All are watcmakers/clockmakers tools.
>
>
> According to the museum in which I found these, they were not used to make
> clocks or watches. Although the craftsman who used them was also a
> clockmaker, the devices on my site were described as being used in a
> different trade. So perhaps these are clockmaker's tools that were used
> in another trade, or maybe he modified some of his clockmaker's tools for
> making other devices.
>
> Rob
The uprighting tool was used to centre punch the location of pivot holes,
mainly in marine chronometers. They are horological tools, but have other
uses, mainly in instrument making. My Boley Standard watchmakers lathe is
much newer, but has many hobby uses, and I still make the odd watch part
with it!
Steve R. ----For many years a repairer of antique watches and clocks.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Geez, that looks an awful lot like one of those things that
>> waitresses clip their orders to which the cook then spins around to see
>> each one in turn............ Ticket rail?
>
>
> It does slightly resemble a ticket holder, but it's twice as big, has
> handles, and doesn't have clips as seen here:
>
> http://search.instawares.com/supplies/Ticket%20Holder
>
>
> The rest of the answers for this week have been posted:
>
> http://answers260t.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
Looking at the lathe again, it looks like a clockmakers throw, which could
be used to make small guns.
Steve R.
Terry Coombs wrote:
> E Z Peaces wrote:
>> DoN. Nichols wrote:
>>
>>> Of course -- it could be totally unrelated to anything else in
>>> the truck -- having simply been scavenged from somewhere as a source
>>> of metal. :-)
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>> DoN.
>>>
>> Uh-oh, I don't know that the truck has any electric welding equipment.
>> I jumped to the conclusion that the blue box contained a generator and
>> electric welder. If that's wrong, it seems there are three pairs of
>> gas lines visible.
>
> On the right hand side of that object at the front is what looks to me
> like an exhaust pipe . I'd bet even money it's a welding machine , a big one
> too !
I showed my grayscale copy of the photo to the trucker. He said yes,
the ring is for seating tire beads and the hooks are to be pulled by a
lever in the hub. He said tools like this were developed for bias-ply
tires. He said the ring he saw was squeezed shut with screws pulling the
ends together, but sometimes straps were used to seat beads.
His eyes lit up as he talked about what he recognized. He says it's a
2-ton service truck for farm equipment. Seeing only grays, he could
identify one item after another. The box is a welder. The lines on the
left are for acetylene welding. The tank on the right is refrigerant.
Regardless of color, the tanks under the ladder are for acetylene
welding. The reeled lines show there's an air compressor aboard.
The tank behind the ammunition box caught his eye because he didn't
recognize it at first. Then he remembered it was for compressed air.
It was made to release a burst of air when dropped. I didn't have time
to ask why.
(I think he was mistaken about the lines hanging to the left of the
welder. There is a dual acetylene line with the tanks. They are
portable and wouldn't need long lines. I think the lines by the welder
are for electric welding.)
Rob H. wrote:
>> I'm researching to see if the extended rods are for supporting a track
>> system, as some models apparently use one. Also, in the absence of any
>> visual evidence for a tire beader that resembles this, I don't know
>> why that is still a viable solution. This is a welding truck, the ring
>> very closely resembles a welding ring....it seems that the challenge
>> now is only to find a similar one to explain some details.
>
>> --riverman
>
>
> I hadn't yet found the beveling band and since some devices that are for
> different purposes look alike, I was open to the possibility of it being
> a tire beader. But now I'm 100% sure that it's a beveling band. I shot
> the photo while on the road in Illinois, I looked out my hotel window
> and saw the unusual ring and took a few shots of it. I hadn't seen one
> before but figured someone here would recognize it.
>
>
> Rob
>
>
I'm 100% sure it was made as a beveling band.
A sack obscures the band near the left foot of the ladder. The ring has
a hooked rod about a foot from there. Below the rod are the heads of
four studs. Above the rod, four studs appear to be absent even when I
blow up the photo. Am I mistaken? If they keep the band at a fixed
distance from the pipe, they must be necessary for accurate welding.
The photos I've seen show convoys of company trucks welding pipe. This
doesn't look like a company truck: no racks for cylinders of welding
gases and no reels for welding cable. Well, maybe poorly-equipped small
contractors also weld on pipe lines.
The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.
How about this scenario? Somebody who normally services vehicles in the
field applied for a job on a pipeline. He passed his welding test and
got put on a waiting list. A foreman told him what they really needed
were independent contractors.
The foreman gave him an old guide ring. The applicant got a pair of
discarded oxygen tanks that were no longer fit for medical use. If you
saw the truck a week later, the tanks would be certified and painted and
in a rack where the refrigerant is now.
On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:25:09 -0500, Stuart Wheaton
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
>Looking again, there is probably space between the water barrel and the
>acetylene tank for an oxy tank. Otherwise, I'd guess that the rig is
>portable and he stores the acetylene vertical so he doesn't need to wait
>an hour for the liquid to settle before use. I'd also guess he can
>carry empty oxy tanks any way he wants to.
It is a good possibility that the orange tank standing up
holds propane. It is a lot cheaper to use with oxygen for
cutting only. The little 20 lb propane tank maybe for when
the big tank runs out and you need to do a bit more.
They probably use gas for cutting only and there wouldn't be
any need for acetylene.
Something more to ponder...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
> anyway -- it looks to me as though at least some of the holes
> around the ring have studs in them facing in towards the center, which
> makes it's use as a tire bead setter less likely.
I wonder what they are for. Some sections have only holes. I think
they are to fasten sections of the band together or to add more hooked
rods.
The circumference of a tire doesn't seem to compress. I think that's
why it takes so much tension to seat a bead by pulling a rope around the
tread. Friction is a problem between a tire and a strap that stretches
under tension. It might not be an issue between a tire and metal band
that wasn't under tension and didn't stretch.
If the band can flex, pressure under a strap at the center would not
mean pressure at the edges where the screws are. The hooked rods would
transfer pressure across the tread to the shoulders. I suppose each
hooked rod could be pulled separately by a chain and a pry bar at the
hub hole of the rim.
A neighbor who has driven trucks for 30 years pulled in tonight. I
described the mystery ring and asked if it might be to seat the bead of
a truck tire. He said bands like that are used, and it's much safer
than squirting ether into the casing, igniting it from a few yards away,
and watching the tire fly into the air.
Having him recognize the photo would mean more than his response to a
description, but he was about to go to bed. I put a copy of the photo
on his steering wheel in case he leaves before I see him.
>
> I see two oxygen tanks lying down, instead of locked upright as
> they should be. A tank of some fuel gas (I don't think that it is
> acetylene, so perhaps propane or natural gas) at the right front
> corner. Acetylene would have to be strapped upright to make it usable
> without a few hours of upright resting after being turned upright from
> lying down.
>
The green tanks are painted for medical oxygen. One appears to have no
cover for the valve. Maybe it's empty, and maybe the refiller is good
at detecting damaged valves.
Wholly orange tanks are for refrigerant. It sounds to me like a
self-employed repairman. Truckers need roadside repairs, but I think
gas welding with a portable cart would be plenty. Long lines for two
kinds of welding make me think of farm equipment. It often needs
welding, and you may not be able to get a truck or cart within 30 feet.
E Z Peaces wrote:
> Rob H. wrote:
>> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number
>> 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
> 1473: Maybe it's a way to carry 60 feet of welding cable. I imagine
> kinking it or winding it on a small radius would reduce its service life.
Uh-h, I think I see the welding cables hanging behind the driver's
mirror. I'd say the owner isn't very concerned about wear and tear.
All those holes make me think the length can be adjusted.
Is the truck used to repair farm equipment in the field? How do you
seat the bead of a tubeless tire in the field? I've seated beads with a
limited air supply by tightening a rope around the tire to push the
beads out to slow the escape of air.
I think this band was a closed hoop only for traveling. To use it, you
would make it slightly shorter than the circumference of the tire. You
would put it in place with a gap between the ends, put one or more nylon
straps around it, and tighten them with ratchets. The hooks extending
from the band would keep the strap or straps from sliding off the tire.
When this squeezed the beads out against the rim, you would apply air
until the air held the beads out. While tire pressure was still low,
you would loosen and remove the straps.
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:29:36 -0500, "Rob H." <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>I agree that rods look like they could get in the way of the automated
>welder, the ring in the video did have a handle, although it was rotated 90
>degrees and wasn't sticking out as far as the one in my photo. I was
>thinking this ring could be for a different model than the one seen in the
>video, or maybe it wasn't used with the automated welders at all, but was
>still used as a pipeline welding clamp.
Rob, it looked to me that the "handle" in the video is really a
clasp that draws the ring together at a split. If the ring is a
solid ring, then how is it removed from the pipe after using? It
can't be slipped off as the added pipe section would be supported at
several points. I didn't see a split in the pictured ring, but it
could be at the bottom and obscured by the other stuff in the truck.
I also wonder about the obstruction caused by the rather large
handle and the protruding rods. I guess it's possible the rods are
what the welder used to propel but then the welder is quite
different than we have seen so far.
Rob H. wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> This metal ring is a device used in pipeline welding. It is clamped
>> to one of the pipes being welded together, at a specified
>> distance from the weld location. In the case of automated welding, a
>> motor-driven apparatus with multiple welders is clamped
>> to the band, and then travels along it, and around the outside of the
>> pipe. This allows the initial "root" weld to be followed by
>> multiple "hot pass" welds, and then a final "cap" weld. Pipeline
>> pipes are so thick that multiple welds are required, and no human
>> can manage it. By varying the distance between welders, and the speed
>> of the motor, the previous weld will have attached, but will
>> still be hot enough that the following weld will bond, not only to
>> the pipe itself, but to the material from the previous weld.
>>
>> After the weld is complete, and has cooled, an ultrasonic scanner is
>> clamped to the same band, and circles around the pipe in the
>> same manner. It fires ultrasonic pulses into the weld and looks for
>> places that the weld is faulty. In the case of a perfect weld, the
>> sound
>> travels unimpeded through the metal, but if there is a fault -- a
>> "bubble" -- the sound will reflect off its surface and will be
>> detected.
>>
>> As you can imagine, pipelines are very expensive to build, and the
>> consequences of a rupture can be catastrophic, especially if you're
>> talking about a pipe on an ocean floor. If you're putting it down, it
>> better be good.
>>
>> The author of this post worked for a couple of years building
>> ultrasonic scanners used for exactly this purpose.
>
>
> Thanks! Do you know if there is a particular name for the ring? I'd
> like to find a link that shows one, to add to the answer page. I've
> done some searching but so far I haven't had any luck.
>
>
> Rob
http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/story2.html
I googled "automated pipeline welder" , this was about the third or fourth
non-sponsored link . Couple of photo's show it in use .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills
E Z Peaces wrote:
> E Z Peaces wrote:
>> Rob H. wrote:
>>> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number
>>> 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>>>
>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob
Patent 4997020 is for a device where a metal band of several sections
would be tightened around a truck tire to seat the bead. It says
putting a strap around the tire was an established method, but this
would result in asymmetrical pressure, due in part to friction between
the strap and the rubber.
1473 could reduce friction in tightening a strap. The hooks could also
be a means of compensating for asymmetrical pressure by exerting pull
between hooks across the circle.
On Nov 28, 10:26=A0pm, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> "humunculus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:662e0ad6-3b2a-46f5-a9fe-27c64459095e@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 27, 8:43 pm, humunculus <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 1473: =A0Or, if this is an electrician's truck, the ring around a gas
> > station sign like this:http://tinyurl.com/64u8lm
>
> Or this?http://flickr.com/photos/delina/2115310294/
>
> Kinda sorta?
>
> --riverman
>
> Yes, kinda sorta, not sure why it would have handles around the outside
> though. =A0Here is a larger photo of the truck with its contents, you can
> click on it to make it bigger:
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
Good point.
Looking at the stuff in the back of the truck, it looks like this is a
service vehicle for diesel tractor-trailers. Maybe this is some sort
of fan shroud for a big diesel engine? And the things that look like
handles are just framing to guide hoses, etc?
This is a tough one. Can anyone analyze all the other stuff in the
back of the service vehicle for clues?
--riverman
On Nov 29, 8:29=A0pm, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In the American patents I found, the guide ring is called a ring gear. =
A
> > worm gear on the robot engages cogs on the ring. =A0I don't know if the
> > Australian guide ring has cogs on the underside.
>
> > The Australian ring is about an inch from the pipe. =A0This would allow
> > space for rollers by which the robot would grip the ring. =A0On the wel=
ding
> > side, the robot has a skirt extending almost to the pipe.
>
> > The mystery ring has hooked rods. =A0Wouldn't they preclude use with th=
e
> > Australian robot and other robots? =A0Anyway, why would a guide ring ha=
ve
> > those rods or those "handles"?
>
> I agree that rods look like they could get in the way of the automated
> welder, the ring in the video did have a handle, although it was rotated =
90
> degrees and wasn't sticking out as far as the one in my photo. =A0I was
> thinking this ring could be for a different model than the one seen in th=
e
> video, or maybe it wasn't used with the automated welders at all, but was
> still used as a pipeline welding clamp.
>
> I'm hoping the person who first suggested that this was a welding ring ca=
n
> answer your question about the rods.
>
> > A guide ring would be used with perhaps three robots and a control
> > station. =A0Wouldn't all those items travel on the same vehicle?
> > The truck has reels for gas lines, but the welding cables are hanging.
> > Wouldn't a company that invested in automatic welding also invest in ca=
ble
> > reels? =A0They would save labor and cables and keep the workplace less
> > cluttered.
>
> Hard to say, he could have been transporting the ring without the need fo=
r
> the other equipment, or someone else could have had other equipment on th=
eir
> truck.
>
> Since I haven't yet seen another ring just like it, I changed my answer p=
age
> to say that it's possibly used in welding, and also possibly used for
> beading tires. =A0I'll be out for most of the day but plan to do a little=
more
> research when I get back.
>
> Rob
I'm researching to see if the extended rods are for supporting a track
system, as some models apparently use one. Also, in the absence of any
visual evidence for a tire beader that resembles this, I don't know
why that is still a viable solution. This is a welding truck, the ring
very closely resembles a welding ring....it seems that the challenge
now is only to find a similar one to explain some details.
--riverman
On Nov 29, 1:44=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> humunculus wrote:
>
> > Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
> > answered.
>
> The thing that's bugging me is that I feel like I've seen one of those
> damn things somewhere and I have no idea where it was.
>
> --
> - Show quoted text -
Exactly! Hmmm....
--riverman
On Nov 28, 11:20=A0pm, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
> E Z Peaces wrote:
> > E Z Peaces wrote:
> >> Rob H. wrote:
> >>> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number
> >>> 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> >>>http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> >>> Rob
>
> Patent 4997020 is for a device where a metal band of several sections
> would be tightened around a truck tire to seat the bead. =A0It says
> putting a strap around the tire was an established method, but this
> would result in asymmetrical pressure, due in part to friction between
> the strap and the rubber.
>
> 1473 could reduce friction in tightening a strap. =A0The hooks could also
> be a means of compensating for asymmetrical pressure by exerting pull
> between hooks across the circle.
I dunno...the patent device seems to be made of a series (at least 3)
sections that can overlap, so tighening the device reduces the
circumference. This thing seems pretty solid.
Some observations: the 'handles' are directly opposite that D-shaped
stain on the opposite side. It might be the bottom, with the two
handles on top at 10:00 and 2:00.
The truck seems to be a welder's truck....does this have anything to
do with welding? If not, could it be something he is taking back to be
repaired?
Around the rim of the ring are 7 'rods' that extend beyond the ring.
Are the ends of these rods bent outward, or are there little 'knobs'
at the top? And between each rod are 5 small angled things, that look
like they could be used to secure a flat plate on to the ring.
Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
answered.
--riverman
On Nov 29, 10:45=A0pm, Nahmie <[email protected]> wrote:
> Wild guess here - Could it have anything to do with pipeline work? I
> see a lot of trucks like this in the East Texas area, several right
> here in the RV park we stay in, and these guys are doing gas/oil
> pipeliune construction. Still don't know what that big ring is for,
> but just thought I might throw in an alternative employment for the
> vehicle.-
Show this picture to one of the guys with a truck like this, and ask
him what the ring is for!
--riverman
woodworker88 wrote:
...
> I'd guess 1473 is an overhead rack for pots and pans, probably out of
> a restaurant or commercial kitchen.
>
I agree the distant picture makes one think of that, but looking at the
details more I decided not...it's got too many other attachment that
wouldn't work well for the purpose. I think it is a connecting piece
between other ducting or similar as another proposed earlier...
--
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
> 1467 Same trade Rob, but not the same purpose!
Good point, I had meant that they were all used for making one particular
device.
> Top is a wheel cutting engine
>
> Middle looks like an uprighting tool
>
> Bottom is a watchmakers lathe, fitted with a "mandrel" face plate. The
> Lathe looks English, probably a Lorch.
>
> All are watcmakers/clockmakers tools.
According to the museum in which I found these, they were not used to make
clocks or watches. Although the craftsman who used them was also a
clockmaker, the devices on my site were described as being used in a
different trade. So perhaps these are clockmaker's tools that were used in
another trade, or maybe he modified some of his clockmaker's tools for
making other devices.
Rob
"humunculus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:662e0ad6-3b2a-46f5-a9fe-27c64459095e@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 27, 8:43 pm, humunculus <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1473: Or, if this is an electrician's truck, the ring around a gas
> station sign like this:http://tinyurl.com/64u8lm
>
Or this?
http://flickr.com/photos/delina/2115310294/
Kinda sorta?
--riverman
Yes, kinda sorta, not sure why it would have handles around the outside
though. Here is a larger photo of the truck with its contents, you can
click on it to make it bigger:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
humunculus wrote:
> On Nov 28, 11:20 pm, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>>>> Rob H. wrote:
>>>>> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in
>>>>> number 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>>
>>>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>>>> Rob
>>
>> Patent 4997020 is for a device where a metal band of several
>> sections
>> would be tightened around a truck tire to seat the bead. It says
>> putting a strap around the tire was an established method, but this
>> would result in asymmetrical pressure, due in part to friction
>> between the strap and the rubber.
>>
>> 1473 could reduce friction in tightening a strap. The hooks could
>> also be a means of compensating for asymmetrical pressure by
>> exerting pull between hooks across the circle.
>
> I dunno...the patent device seems to be made of a series (at least
> 3)
> sections that can overlap, so tighening the device reduces the
> circumference. This thing seems pretty solid.
>
> Some observations: the 'handles' are directly opposite that D-shaped
> stain on the opposite side. It might be the bottom, with the two
> handles on top at 10:00 and 2:00.
>
> The truck seems to be a welder's truck....does this have anything to
> do with welding? If not, could it be something he is taking back to
> be
> repaired?
>
> Around the rim of the ring are 7 'rods' that extend beyond the ring.
> Are the ends of these rods bent outward, or are there little 'knobs'
> at the top? And between each rod are 5 small angled things, that
> look
> like they could be used to secure a flat plate on to the ring.
>
> Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
> answered.
The thing that's bugging me is that I feel like I've seen one of those
damn things somewhere and I have no idea where it was.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
> Geez, that looks an awful lot like one of those things that
> waitresses clip their orders to which the cook then spins around to see
> each one in turn............ Ticket rail?
It does slightly resemble a ticket holder, but it's twice as big, has
handles, and doesn't have clips as seen here:
http://search.instawares.com/supplies/Ticket%20Holder
The rest of the answers for this week have been posted:
http://answers260t.blogspot.com/
Rob
> The metal band would allow a strap to slide fairly freely as it squeezed
> the circumference. According to the patent, there are other factors that
> make a squeeze asymmetrical. Suppose you tighten the strap and see that
> the bead is not sliding into place at some spots. What now?
>
> Imagine you reach for a sort of load binder with a few links of chain on
> each end. If you hook the chains to two of those hooked rods and pull the
> lever, that should deform the circumference. I think that could be used
> to manipulate the bead into place.
>
> I think what look like "small angled things" are holes, allowing the
> mechanic to mount as many hooked rods as he wants at the spacing he
> chooses.
Sounds like a good possibility, but I'm not yet ready to pronounce this one
as solved. I'm thinking that in the next couple weeks someone will
recognize it and provide a definitive answer.
Rob
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This metal ring is a device used in pipeline welding. It is clamped to
> one of the pipes being welded together, at a specified
> distance from the weld location. In the case of automated welding, a
> motor-driven apparatus with multiple welders is clamped
> to the band, and then travels along it, and around the outside of the
> pipe. This allows the initial "root" weld to be followed by
> multiple "hot pass" welds, and then a final "cap" weld. Pipeline pipes
> are so thick that multiple welds are required, and no human
> can manage it. By varying the distance between welders, and the speed
> of the motor, the previous weld will have attached, but will
> still be hot enough that the following weld will bond, not only to the
> pipe itself, but to the material from the previous weld.
>
> After the weld is complete, and has cooled, an ultrasonic scanner is
> clamped to the same band, and circles around the pipe in the
> same manner. It fires ultrasonic pulses into the weld and looks for
> places that the weld is faulty. In the case of a perfect weld, the
> sound
> travels unimpeded through the metal, but if there is a fault -- a
> "bubble" -- the sound will reflect off its surface and will be
> detected.
>
> As you can imagine, pipelines are very expensive to build, and the
> consequences of a rupture can be catastrophic, especially if you're
> talking about a pipe on an ocean floor. If you're putting it down, it
> better be good.
>
> The author of this post worked for a couple of years building
> ultrasonic scanners used for exactly this purpose.
Thanks! Do you know if there is a particular name for the ring? I'd like
to find a link that shows one, to add to the answer page. I've done some
searching but so far I haven't had any luck.
Rob
On Dec 3, 1:22=A0am, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
> humunculus wrote:
> > On Dec 2, 4:28 am, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Ned Simmons wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Ned Simmons wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]=
d>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> The cylinders are a mystery. =A0Seeing only a grayscale picture, t=
he
> >>>>>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant=
. =A0He
> >>>>>> said that's where service trucks carry it. =A0Its color corroborat=
es this.
> >>>>>> =A0Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
> >>>>>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I =
see no
> >>>>>> =A0cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. =A0Could h=
e get
> >>>>>> anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for med=
ical
> >>>>>> oxygen? =A0Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks=
very
> >>>>>> dangerous.
> >>>>> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases?=
In
> >>>>> the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standu=
p
> >>>>> tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP=
if
> >>>>> I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down i=
n
> >>>>> the bed can't be welding oxy.
> >>>>> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
> >>>> MAPP isn't used for welding. =A0It makes steel brittle.
> >>> There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
> >>> heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
> >>>> OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
> >>>> (4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall =
be
> >>>> secured in a vertical position".
> >>>> DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
> >>>> (1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
> >>>> Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
> >>>> position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
> >>>> packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
> >>>> overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4=
L
> >>>> cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
> >>> You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
> >>> applicable to the gases you proposed?
> >> I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.
>
> >> I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably saf=
e
> >> to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
> >> inconvenient? =A0When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxyg=
en
> >> cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.- Hide q=
uoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
> >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
> > you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
> > with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
> > of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
> > missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
> > wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
> > started this whole thread.
>
> > Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
> > with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
> > its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
> > could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
> > credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
> > their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
> > secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
> > handle and =A0stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
> > tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
> > sunset.
>
> > --riverman
>
> Does AX mean acetylene? =A0Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
> Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? =A0In a closed space, couldn't a
> leak cause an explosion?
>
> Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline welding
> or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a pipeline. =A0I
> wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen to be using a
> pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.
>
> Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? =A0Well, I'm sure
> being in a rack is safer than being loose.
>
> The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
> refrigerant. =A0If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
> oxygen tank beside it? =A0If it's refrigerant, that sounds like the owner
> is a repairman collecting equipment to work on a pipeline.- Hide quoted t=
ext -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The 'tank behind the passenger seat' I referred to IS the orange tank
strapped beside the drink cooler. Maybe I should have said 'behind the
passenger door' instead.
It doesn't seem so mysterious to me. The tank rack has three spots in
it, with three tanks in the truck. If it is true that oxygen does not
have to be stored vertically (either for physical reasons or for DOT
requirements, not OSHA), then it makes sense to stick the acetylene in
the carrier away from the driver, in the required vertical position,
and to lay the other two tanks in the bed of the truck, securely in
their rack. If the other thing is the handle, that makes sense
also...remove the handle so the rack lays flat. I can't believe the
rack is broken....what moron would carry around a broken metal rack
that needed welding to repair....if it was on a welding cart?
As for the color coding....there is no standard coding, although green
is common for oxygen, and red (or orange?) is common for acetylene. If
the orange tank is standing on a running board, then it is taller than
the green tanks, and it has a wear band around it at what looks like
the right height for the strap in the cylinder rack.
It all seems to fit....its a welding truck, with a step ladder,
welding gas rack, hoses, power supply, band and tools. Also a propane
tank, and probably a propane tip somewhere in the tool box. This guy
is set up to weld or solder all sorts of things. He might spend most
of his time using the TIG/MIG setup, so the acetylene is not often
taken down and racked. Thats why its on the bottom, and why its not so
inconvenient to have them separated.
--riverman
Ned Simmons wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Ned Simmons wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
>>>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
>>>> said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
>>>> Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
>>>>
>>>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
>>>> cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
>>>> anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
>>>> oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
>>>> dangerous.
>>> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
>>> the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
>>> tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
>>> I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
>>> the bed can't be welding oxy.
>>>
>>> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>>>
>> MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
>
> There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
> heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
>
>> OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
>> (4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
>> secured in a vertical position".
>>
>>
>> DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
>> (1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
>> Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
>> position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
>> packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
>> overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
>> cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
>
> You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
> applicable to the gases you proposed?
>
I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.
I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably safe
to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxygen
cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.
E Z Peaces wrote:
>> The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
>> you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
>> with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
>> of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
>> missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
>> wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
>> started this whole thread.
>>
>> Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
>> with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
>> its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
>> could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
>> credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
>> their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
>> secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
>> handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
>> tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
>> sunset.
>>
>> --riverman
>
> Does AX mean acetylene? Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
> Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? In a closed space, couldn't a
> leak cause an explosion?
Have you looked at the photo? The tank in question is outside the
truck, strapped upright to the truck body, just like you are supposed to
carry acetylene. It is behind the passenger only in the same way the
right rear turn signal is behind the passenger.
>
> Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline welding
> or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a pipeline. I
> wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen to be using a
> pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.
Those tanks look just like the tanks we used to get for welding oxygen,
where do you get medical ox from?
>
> Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? Well, I'm sure
> being in a rack is safer than being loose.
Zoom in, they both have covers.
>
> The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
> refrigerant.
No, it is an acetylene tank. Zoom in on the label, it is clearly
flammable gas.
If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
> oxygen tank beside it?
those are in the truck bed.
I think the tank people thought was refrigerant was the propane tank in
the bed in the drivers side, clearly says propane if you zoom in.
humunculus wrote:
> On Dec 2, 4:28 am, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ned Simmons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Ned Simmons wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
>>>>>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
>>>>>> said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
>>>>>> Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
>>>>>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
>>>>>> cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
>>>>>> anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
>>>>>> oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
>>>>>> dangerous.
>>>>> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
>>>>> the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
>>>>> tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
>>>>> I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
>>>>> the bed can't be welding oxy.
>>>>> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>>>> MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
>>> There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
>>> heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
>>>> OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
>>>> (4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
>>>> secured in a vertical position".
>>>> DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
>>>> (1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
>>>> Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
>>>> position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
>>>> packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
>>>> overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
>>>> cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
>>> You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
>>> applicable to the gases you proposed?
>> I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.
>>
>> I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably safe
>> to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
>> inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxygen
>> cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
> you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
> with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
> of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
> missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
> wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
> started this whole thread.
>
> Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
> with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
> its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
> could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
> credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
> their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
> secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
> handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
> tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
> sunset.
>
> --riverman
Does AX mean acetylene? Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? In a closed space, couldn't a
leak cause an explosion?
Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline welding
or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a pipeline. I
wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen to be using a
pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.
Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? Well, I'm sure
being in a rack is safer than being loose.
The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
refrigerant. If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
oxygen tank beside it? If it's refrigerant, that sounds like the owner
is a repairman collecting equipment to work on a pipeline.
E Z Peaces wrote:
> Stuart Wheaton wrote:
>>
>> If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
>>> oxygen tank beside it?
>>
>> those are in the truck bed.
>>
> If the orange tank were acetylene, having a place to lash it would show
> that the truck was outfitted for gas welding. In that case, why isn't
> it outfitted with a place to lash oxygen tanks as OSHA requires? It's
> more convenient as well as safer. Oxygen tanks contain a lot more
> pressure than acetylene tanks.
Looking again, there is probably space between the water barrel and the
acetylene tank for an oxy tank. Otherwise, I'd guess that the rig is
portable and he stores the acetylene vertical so he doesn't need to wait
an hour for the liquid to settle before use. I'd also guess he can
carry empty oxy tanks any way he wants to.
Stuart
On Dec 2, 4:28=A0am, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ned Simmons wrote:
> > On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Ned Simmons wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> The cylinders are a mystery. =A0Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
> >>>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. =
=A0He
> >>>> said that's where service trucks carry it. =A0Its color corroborates=
this.
> >>>> =A0Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
>
> >>>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I se=
e no
> >>>> =A0cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. =A0Could he =
get
> >>>> anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medic=
al
> >>>> oxygen? =A0Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks v=
ery
> >>>> dangerous.
> >>> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? I=
n
> >>> the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
> >>> tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP i=
f
> >>> I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
> >>> the bed can't be welding oxy.
>
> >>> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>
> >> MAPP isn't used for welding. =A0It makes steel brittle.
>
> > There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
> > heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
>
> >> OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
> >> (4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
> >> secured in a vertical position".
>
> >> DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
> >> (1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
> >> Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
> >> position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
> >> packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
> >> overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
> >> cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
>
> > You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
> > applicable to the gases you proposed?
>
> I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.
>
> I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably safe
> to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
> inconvenient? =A0When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxygen
> cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.- Hide quot=
ed text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
started this whole thread.
Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
sunset.
--riverman
E Z Peaces wrote:
> Ned Simmons wrote:
>> On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
>> <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ned Simmons wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture,
>>>>> the
>>>>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as
>>>>> refrigerant. He said that's where service trucks carry it. Its
>>>>> color corroborates this. Why would a pipeline welder carry
>>>>> refrigerant?
>>>>>
>>>>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but
>>>>> I
>>>>> see no cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen.
>>>>> Could he get anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank
>>>>> marked for medical oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in
>>>>> loose cylinders looks very dangerous.
>>>> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding
>>>> gases? In the US there's no standard color code for gas
>>>> cylinders.
>>>> The standup tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas
>>>> cylinder (MAPP if I had to guess), and there's no reason the
>>>> green
>>>> tanks lying down in the bed can't be welding oxy.
>>>>
>>>> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>>>>
>>> MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
>>
>> There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
>> heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
>>
>>> OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
>>> (4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they
>>> shall
>>> be secured in a vertical position".
>>>
>>>
>>> DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
>>> (1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
>>> Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
>>> position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor
>>> vehicle;
>>> packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
>>> overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification
>>> DOT-4L cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and
>>> securely
>>> braced.
>>
>> You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
>> applicable to the gases you proposed?
>>
>
> I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.
>
> I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably
> safe to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
> inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an
> oxygen
> cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.
Why would he have to secure an oxygen cylinder upright in order to
weld? Oxygen doesn't care what the orientation of the cylinder is.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
J. Clarke wrote:
> E Z Peaces wrote:
>> Ned Simmons wrote:
>>> On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ned Simmons wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as
>>>>>> refrigerant. He said that's where service trucks carry it. Its
>>>>>> color corroborates this. Why would a pipeline welder carry
>>>>>> refrigerant?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> see no cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen.
>>>>>> Could he get anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank
>>>>>> marked for medical oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in
>>>>>> loose cylinders looks very dangerous.
>>>>> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding
>>>>> gases? In the US there's no standard color code for gas
>>>>> cylinders.
>>>>> The standup tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas
>>>>> cylinder (MAPP if I had to guess), and there's no reason the
>>>>> green
>>>>> tanks lying down in the bed can't be welding oxy.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>>>>>
>>>> MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
>>> There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
>>> heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
>>>
>>>> OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
>>>> (4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they
>>>> shall
>>>> be secured in a vertical position".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
>>>> (1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
>>>> Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
>>>> position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor
>>>> vehicle;
>>>> packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
>>>> overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification
>>>> DOT-4L cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and
>>>> securely
>>>> braced.
>>> You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
>>> applicable to the gases you proposed?
>>>
>> I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.
>>
>> I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably
>> safe to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
>> inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an
>> oxygen
>> cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.
>
> Why would he have to secure an oxygen cylinder upright in order to
> weld? Oxygen doesn't care what the orientation of the cylinder is.
>
It seems dangerous and inconvenient. It looks like an inconvenient
place to try to connect a regulator and oxygen line. It's 2200 psi, and
if something gets blown off, you're standing in the way. If you get it
hooked up, you have to go one place to control the oxygen and another to
control the fuel. I guess that's why OSHA says gas cylinders must be
secured upright except when being hoisted or manually moved.
humunculus wrote:
>
> It doesn't seem so mysterious to me. The tank rack has three spots in
> it, with three tanks in the truck. If it is true that oxygen does not
> have to be stored vertically (either for physical reasons or for DOT
> requirements, not OSHA), then it makes sense to stick the acetylene in
> the carrier away from the driver, in the required vertical position,
> and to lay the other two tanks in the bed of the truck, securely in
> their rack. If the other thing is the handle, that makes sense
> also...remove the handle so the rack lays flat. I can't believe the
> rack is broken....what moron would carry around a broken metal rack
> that needed welding to repair....if it was on a welding cart?
I find it confusing the DOT would go on and on about securing cylinders
upright, then say they may be laid down. It seems to me that there must
be more to it, that cylinders must be secured and that there must be
special precautions to protect valves. It seems to me that when a
cylinder is lying down, the valve is more vulnerable to damage by
ramming or having something dropped on it. If it broke, the valve and
tank could shoot horizontally.
Under OSHA regulations, cylinders would have to be secured upright when
the truck was loaded. In that case, DOT regulations would have only to
cover the possibility that something came loose after the truck was
loaded. Maybe DOT allows laying a cylinder down because if a driver
discovered that an upright cylinder was no longer secure, laying it down
could be safer than tying it up with baling twine, for example.
>
> As for the color coding....there is no standard coding, although green
> is common for oxygen, and red (or orange?) is common for acetylene. If
> the orange tank is standing on a running board, then it is taller than
> the green tanks, and it has a wear band around it at what looks like
> the right height for the strap in the cylinder rack.
I got my chart from the DOD. It didn't mention alternative colors. I
was surprised to learn in this thread that it is not governed by law.
To me, that's like saying traffic lights can be any colors a
manufacturer chooses.
>
> It all seems to fit....its a welding truck, with a step ladder,
> welding gas rack, hoses, power supply, band and tools. Also a propane
> tank, and probably a propane tip somewhere in the tool box. This guy
> is set up to weld or solder all sorts of things. He might spend most
> of his time using the TIG/MIG setup, so the acetylene is not often
> taken down and racked. Thats why its on the bottom, and why its not so
> inconvenient to have them separated.
>
I can't tell how big the oxygen tanks are, but they and the rack could
weigh more than 300 pounds. Apparently the rack, which may be broken,
was pushed, not pulled, aboard. Did somebody push the rack up a ramp
onto the truck after welding in the field? It's easier to imagine it
was pushed aboard at a loading dock and not intended to be unloaded for
welding in the field. (What is that wood "tailgate"? There's a similar
item on the right.)
I'm not familiar with trucks designed for welders, but it seems to me
that it would be safer and more convenient to weld with the cylinders
secured to the vehicle, like the arc welder. Could that be why the
truck has long hoses?
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
> E Z Peaces wrote:
>
>>> The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
>>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
>>> you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
>>> with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
>>> of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
>>> missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
>>> wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
>>> started this whole thread.
>>>
>>> Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
>>> with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
>>> its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
>>> could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
>>> credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
>>> their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
>>> secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
>>> handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
>>> tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
>>> sunset.
>>>
>>> --riverman
>>
>> Does AX mean acetylene? Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
>> Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? In a closed space, couldn't a
>> leak cause an explosion?
>
> Have you looked at the photo? The tank in question is outside the
> truck, strapped upright to the truck body, just like you are supposed to
> carry acetylene. It is behind the passenger only in the same way the
> right rear turn signal is behind the passenger.
>
>
>>
>> Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline
>> welding or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a
>> pipeline. I wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen
>> to be using a pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.
>
> Those tanks look just like the tanks we used to get for welding oxygen,
> where do you get medical ox from?
Do your tanks have white bands?
>
>>
>> Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? Well, I'm
>> sure being in a rack is safer than being loose.
>
> Zoom in, they both have covers.
I zoomed in. The one on the right has something green that doesn't look
like a cover.
>
>>
>> The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
>> refrigerant.
>
> No, it is an acetylene tank. Zoom in on the label, it is clearly
> flammable gas.
Class 2 and 3 refrigerants are flammable gases.
>
> If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
>> oxygen tank beside it?
>
> those are in the truck bed.
>
If the orange tank were acetylene, having a place to lash it would show
that the truck was outfitted for gas welding. In that case, why isn't
it outfitted with a place to lash oxygen tanks as OSHA requires? It's
more convenient as well as safer. Oxygen tanks contain a lot more
pressure than acetylene tanks.
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Ned Simmons wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
>>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
>>> said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
>>> Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
>>>
>>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
>>> cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
>>> anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
>>> oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
>>> dangerous.
>>
>> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
>> the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
>> tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
>> I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
>> the bed can't be welding oxy.
>>
>> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>>
>MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
>
>OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
>(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
>secured in a vertical position".
>
>
>DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
>(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
>Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
>position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
>packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
>overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
>cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?
--
Ned Simmons
> In the American patents I found, the guide ring is called a ring gear. A
> worm gear on the robot engages cogs on the ring. I don't know if the
> Australian guide ring has cogs on the underside.
>
> The Australian ring is about an inch from the pipe. This would allow
> space for rollers by which the robot would grip the ring. On the welding
> side, the robot has a skirt extending almost to the pipe.
>
> The mystery ring has hooked rods. Wouldn't they preclude use with the
> Australian robot and other robots? Anyway, why would a guide ring have
> those rods or those "handles"?
I agree that rods look like they could get in the way of the automated
welder, the ring in the video did have a handle, although it was rotated 90
degrees and wasn't sticking out as far as the one in my photo. I was
thinking this ring could be for a different model than the one seen in the
video, or maybe it wasn't used with the automated welders at all, but was
still used as a pipeline welding clamp.
I'm hoping the person who first suggested that this was a welding ring can
answer your question about the rods.
> A guide ring would be used with perhaps three robots and a control
> station. Wouldn't all those items travel on the same vehicle?
> The truck has reels for gas lines, but the welding cables are hanging.
> Wouldn't a company that invested in automatic welding also invest in cable
> reels? They would save labor and cables and keep the workplace less
> cluttered.
Hard to say, he could have been transporting the ring without the need for
the other equipment, or someone else could have had other equipment on their
truck.
Since I haven't yet seen another ring just like it, I changed my answer page
to say that it's possibly used in welding, and also possibly used for
beading tires. I'll be out for most of the day but plan to do a little more
research when I get back.
Rob
> I showed my grayscale copy of the photo to the trucker. He said yes, the
> ring is for seating tire beads and the hooks are to be pulled by a lever
> in the hub. He said tools like this were developed for bias-ply tires. He
> said the ring he saw was squeezed shut with screws pulling the ends
> together, but sometimes straps were used to seat beads.
Well, if you can find some links to a tire beading ring that looks like the
one on my site, I'd be happy to take a look, but the links below contain
what I believe is the definitive answer for this metal band.
I posted a link to my site on a welding newsgroup, where eventually someone
posted this link, which says that it's a bevel band:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SAWYER-206A-BAND-TYPE-PIPE-BEVELER-WITH-48%22-BEVEL-BAND_W0QQitemZ150309621640QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081113?IMSfp=TL081113126002r33232
I also found this page:
http://www.kiwahweld.com/welding_equipment.htm
...where they have links to several beveling bands as seen here:
http://www.kiwahweld.com/images/EQUIPMENT/30%20inch%20beveling%20band.jpg
http://www.kiwahweld.com/images/EQUIPMENT/another%20view%20of%2030%20inch%20beveling%20band.jpg
Someone else on the welding newsgroup provided some further info on the
beveling band:
"It's a pipe beveler band for a large pipe, and can be used to mount an
automated bug welder. Looks like about a 36". The traveling carriage
portion is held to the band by four little wheels with grooves in it. The
band is held off the pipe with little round feet. It is clamped around a
pipe, and then there is a hand cranked carriage that holds the cutting torch
positioned to the right angle. When used as a bug band, the traveling
portion is motorized. It usually holds a FCAW torch head, and has a plate
about 1 square foot that the welder looks through. There are six control
knobs to regulate speed and angle, as it changes with every pass. We used
these to weld 36" caisson 1.5" wall thickness with the caisson in the
vertical position, the weld in the horizontal 2g position. They are
essential in getting a precision cut on two BIG pieces of pipe so they line
up, and even though they work pretty good, and you can have a good operator,
there's a lot of work, not to mention skill, to bevel two pieces of pipe,
get a decent root, and get it all right on that big a piece of pipe. But
hey, if you blow it, you just start over. It would take the better part of
a day to bevel two ends, dress them, weld them out, and x ray them.
Last thought, kind of a spendy piece of precision equipment to be tossed in
a truck like that."
Still seems to me that the rods would get in the way of an automated welder,
but maybe not if the welder was made to be used with this particular type of
band.
Rob
>I'm researching to see if the extended rods are for supporting a track
>system, as some models apparently use one. Also, in the absence of any
>visual evidence for a tire beader that resembles this, I don't know
>why that is still a viable solution. This is a welding truck, the ring
>very closely resembles a welding ring....it seems that the challenge
>now is only to find a similar one to explain some details.
>--riverman
I hadn't yet found the beveling band and since some devices that are for
different purposes look alike, I was open to the possibility of it being a
tire beader. But now I'm 100% sure that it's a beveling band. I shot the
photo while on the road in Illinois, I looked out my hotel window and saw
the unusual ring and took a few shots of it. I hadn't seen one before but
figured someone here would recognize it.
Rob
Mike Marlow wrote:
...
> ...was not aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.
About 20-30 years ago or so... :)
Still have one old ('58) truck w/ 'em -- it's an experience when it's
worked on these days as none of the tire shop working kids have ever
seen one, what more worked on one.
Also a pita as it's got 8.25x20 and hardly anything is that small any
more so have to pay full list to get something ordered for it.
--
In article <[email protected]>, "Rob H." <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Quite a tricky set this time, at least for me. Wild guesses follow.
1471 - Seems to be some manner of marker that clips onto a cable or
rope. Being made out of wood, it's unlikely to be used as a weight, and
it doesn't look too safe to use as an electrical insulator. Maybe it's
placed where two ropes cross to avoid chafing against each other?
(Maybe it's a demonstration model illustrating a form of the Chinese
finger trap?)
1472 - A smallish electric motor with a short doubly-keyed lead screw
attached. Possibly this formed a part of a benedix drive to engage the
load only when the motor was energized, as for a starter motor for an
engine.
1473 - My initial thought was that this was part of a spinning rack such
as is sometimes used to keep track of order slips in diners. That
doesn't seem to go with the other tools and materials in the truck,
though. Maybe it's a part of a light fixture or other item these
tradesmen happen to be working on? Maybe it's a collar to go around an
open manhole to hang stuff down and give some visual warning that
there's an open manhole?
1474 - Portable gun rest for target shooting?
1475 - The claws appear to clamp onto something to hold and move it,
engaged or released by the lever with the worn-off orange paint.
Probably, it's used to move bales of something; I'd suspect not hay, as
hay bales lack the structure to be grabbed this way, but perhaps
newspapers for recycling or something similar.
1476 - Possibly these turn (or, perhaps more correctly, spin) brass
finials?
Now to see what others have to say.
--
Andrew Erickson
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:56:14 -0600, Terry Coombs cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>
>> Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car
>> tire. They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a
>> tire.
>
> Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are using
> tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . I
> believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the more
> flexible sidewalls .
Sunofagun. Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes along and
tells ya that ya don't. I hate it when that happens. I really was not
aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Nahmie wrote:
> On Nov 28, 11:44 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>humunculus wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 28, 11:20 pm, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>E Z Peaces wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>E Z Peaces wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rob H. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in
>>>>>>>number 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>>
>>>>>>>http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>>>>>>Rob
>>
>>>>Patent 4997020 is for a device where a metal band of several
>>>>sections
>>>>would be tightened around a truck tire to seat the bead. It says
>>>>putting a strap around the tire was an established method, but this
>>>>would result in asymmetrical pressure, due in part to friction
>>>>between the strap and the rubber.
>>
>>>>1473 could reduce friction in tightening a strap. The hooks could
>>>>also be a means of compensating for asymmetrical pressure by
>>>>exerting pull between hooks across the circle.
>>
>>>I dunno...the patent device seems to be made of a series (at least
>>>3)
>>>sections that can overlap, so tighening the device reduces the
>>>circumference. This thing seems pretty solid.
>>
>>>Some observations: the 'handles' are directly opposite that D-shaped
>>>stain on the opposite side. It might be the bottom, with the two
>>>handles on top at 10:00 and 2:00.
>>
>>>The truck seems to be a welder's truck....does this have anything to
>>>do with welding? If not, could it be something he is taking back to
>>>be
>>>repaired?
>>
>>>Around the rim of the ring are 7 'rods' that extend beyond the ring.
>>>Are the ends of these rods bent outward, or are there little 'knobs'
>>>at the top? And between each rod are 5 small angled things, that
>>>look
>>>like they could be used to secure a flat plate on to the ring.
>>
>>>Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
>>>answered.
>>
>>The thing that's bugging me is that I feel like I've seen one of those
>>damn things somewhere and I have no idea where it was.
>>
>>--
>>--
>>--John
>>to email, dial "usenet" and validate
>>(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> Wild guess here - Could it have anything to do with pipeline work? I
> see a lot of trucks like this in the East Texas area, several right
> here in the RV park we stay in, and these guys are doing gas/oil
> pipeliune construction. Still don't know what that big ring is for,
> but just thought I might throw in an alternative employment for the
> vehicle.
The welder in the front is sometimes called a pipeliner.
John
E Z Peaces wrote:
> DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
>> Of course -- it could be totally unrelated to anything else in
>> the truck -- having simply been scavenged from somewhere as a source
>> of metal. :-)
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> DoN.
>>
>
> Uh-oh, I don't know that the truck has any electric welding equipment.
> I jumped to the conclusion that the blue box contained a generator and
> electric welder. If that's wrong, it seems there are three pairs of
> gas lines visible.
On the right hand side of that object at the front is what looks to me
like an exhaust pipe . I'd bet even money it's a welding machine , a big one
too !
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills
Rob H. wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> This metal ring is a device used in pipeline welding. It is clamped
>> to one of the pipes being welded together, at a specified
>> distance from the weld location. In the case of automated welding, a
>> motor-driven apparatus with multiple welders is clamped
>> to the band, and then travels along it, and around the outside of the
>> pipe. This allows the initial "root" weld to be followed by
>> multiple "hot pass" welds, and then a final "cap" weld. Pipeline
>> pipes are so thick that multiple welds are required, and no human
>> can manage it. By varying the distance between welders, and the speed
>> of the motor, the previous weld will have attached, but will
>> still be hot enough that the following weld will bond, not only to
>> the pipe itself, but to the material from the previous weld.
>>
>> After the weld is complete, and has cooled, an ultrasonic scanner is
>> clamped to the same band, and circles around the pipe in the
>> same manner. It fires ultrasonic pulses into the weld and looks for
>> places that the weld is faulty. In the case of a perfect weld, the
>> sound
>> travels unimpeded through the metal, but if there is a fault -- a
>> "bubble" -- the sound will reflect off its surface and will be
>> detected.
>>
>> As you can imagine, pipelines are very expensive to build, and the
>> consequences of a rupture can be catastrophic, especially if you're
>> talking about a pipe on an ocean floor. If you're putting it down, it
>> better be good.
>>
>> The author of this post worked for a couple of years building
>> ultrasonic scanners used for exactly this purpose.
>
>
> Thanks! Do you know if there is a particular name for the ring? I'd
> like to find a link that shows one, to add to the answer page. I've
> done some searching but so far I haven't had any luck.
>
>
> Rob
VIDEO !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsOb_jFzhYw
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills
humunculus wrote:
> On Nov 29, 1:44 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> humunculus wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
>>> answered.
>> The thing that's bugging me is that I feel like I've seen one of those
>> damn things somewhere and I have no idea where it was.
>>
>> --
>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Exactly! Hmmm....
>
> --riverman
I think it's a belt rack out of a clothing store
DoN. Nichols wrote:
> Of course -- it could be totally unrelated to anything else in
> the truck -- having simply been scavenged from somewhere as a source of
> metal. :-)
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
>
Uh-oh, I don't know that the truck has any electric welding equipment.
I jumped to the conclusion that the blue box contained a generator and
electric welder. If that's wrong, it seems there are three pairs of gas
lines visible.
On 2008-11-27, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number 1473,
> maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Posting from rec.crafts.metalworking as always.
1471) Hmm ... looks like a sliding clip to go on something
like clothesline. Looks like wood and spring steel.
1472) Well ... an ACME thread on the motor shaft, but too
close to the metal shield for normal use, so I think that it is
some form of feed device.
Looks as though the threads were turned as an afterthought, and
that it was originally to drive a pulley or something similar
with a double keyway.
1473) For winding the hoses shown on smaller reels to the left?
Those hoses look to be for oxygen and some fuel gas.
It looks way too flimsy to be caging the tire while seating the
bead to prevent explosions.
1474) A child's toy with a hidden compartment?
1475) A hay bale grapple?
1476) Decorative metal turning engines -- for engraving regular
decorative patterns into metal?
Holtzapfel (sp?) made the fanciest one that I have heard of, and
these are far below that.
Now to see what others have said.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2008-11-28, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> 1473: Or, if this is an electrician's truck, the ring around a gas
>> station sign like this:http://tinyurl.com/64u8lm
>>
>
>
> Or this?
> http://flickr.com/photos/delina/2115310294/
>
> Kinda sorta?
>
> --riverman
>
>
> Yes, kinda sorta, not sure why it would have handles around the outside
> though. Here is a larger photo of the truck with its contents, you can
> click on it to make it bigger:
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%209/DSC00015-1.jpg
Hmm ... no click to make it bigger, but I saved it and cropped
in as much as I can given the jpeg artifacts. (Not sure how much better
the raw image from the camera would have been -- this one has been
processed by a Microsoft program based on the exif data.
anyway -- it looks to me as though at least some of the holes
around the ring have studs in them facing in towards the center, which
makes it's use as a tire bead setter less likely.
I see two oxygen tanks lying down, instead of locked upright as
they should be. A tank of some fuel gas (I don't think that it is
acetylene, so perhaps propane or natural gas) at the right front
corner. Acetylene would have to be strapped upright to make it usable
without a few hours of upright resting after being turned upright from
lying down.
The rods with the hooks on the ends lok as though they might be
used to hook the blow-molded plastic sign covers in place if it is truly
a ring for a sign.
Of course -- it could be totally unrelated to anything else in
the truck -- having simply been scavenged from somewhere as a source of
metal. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
humunculus wrote:
> On Nov 28, 11:20 pm, E Z Peaces <[email protected]> wrote:
>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>>>> Rob H. wrote:
>>>>> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number
>>>>> 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>>>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Rob
>> Patent 4997020 is for a device where a metal band of several sections
>> would be tightened around a truck tire to seat the bead. It says
>> putting a strap around the tire was an established method, but this
>> would result in asymmetrical pressure, due in part to friction between
>> the strap and the rubber.
>>
>> 1473 could reduce friction in tightening a strap. The hooks could also
>> be a means of compensating for asymmetrical pressure by exerting pull
>> between hooks across the circle.
>
> I dunno...the patent device seems to be made of a series (at least 3)
> sections that can overlap, so tighening the device reduces the
> circumference. This thing seems pretty solid.
It's not that patented device, but the patent describes the obstacles to
seating a bead by squeezing the circumference.
>
> Some observations: the 'handles' are directly opposite that D-shaped
> stain on the opposite side. It might be the bottom, with the two
> handles on top at 10:00 and 2:00.
I wonder how many there are. I now think the handles and not the hooks
keep a strap from sliding off the tire. The strap would be threaded
under the handles. Using metal band between the strap and the tire
overcomes one of the obstacles mentioned in the patent: friction.
>
> The truck seems to be a welder's truck....does this have anything to
> do with welding? If not, could it be something he is taking back to be
> repaired?
Would the tire be his spare? Isn't a spare normally carried somewhere
other than the middle of the cargo space?
>
> Around the rim of the ring are 7 'rods' that extend beyond the ring.
> Are the ends of these rods bent outward, or are there little 'knobs'
> at the top? And between each rod are 5 small angled things, that look
> like they could be used to secure a flat plate on to the ring.
>
The metal band would allow a strap to slide fairly freely as it squeezed
the circumference. According to the patent, there are other factors
that make a squeeze asymmetrical. Suppose you tighten the strap and see
that the bead is not sliding into place at some spots. What now?
Imagine you reach for a sort of load binder with a few links of chain on
each end. If you hook the chains to two of those hooked rods and pull
the lever, that should deform the circumference. I think that could be
used to manipulate the bead into place.
I think what look like "small angled things" are holes, allowing the
mechanic to mount as many hooked rods as he wants at the spacing he chooses.
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
>trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
>said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
> Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
>
>The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
> cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
>anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
>oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
>dangerous.
How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.
When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
--
Ned Simmons
Ned Simmons wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
>> trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
>> said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
>> Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
>>
>> The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
>> cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
>> anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
>> oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
>> dangerous.
>
> How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
> the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
> tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
> I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
> the bed can't be welding oxy.
>
> When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>
MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
secured in a vertical position".
DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
Terry Coombs wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>> Rob H. wrote:
>>> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number
>>> 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>> Looks like a fan shroud.
>
> Looks more like a rotating rack for pots and pans to me .
1471 is a leather working tool that is used to cut pieces off to shape
what ever is being made.
1474 is a boot jack. You place one toe of the handle and the heal of the
other book in the U shaped opening. Lift on the heal and slip you foot
out of the boot. Reverse for the other boot.
Dave Nagel
Mike Marlow wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:54:27 -0500, E Z Peaces cast forth these pearls of
> wisdom...:
>
>
>
>> The circumference of a tire doesn't seem to compress. I think that's
>> why it takes so much tension to seat a bead by pulling a rope around the
>> tread. Friction is a problem between a tire and a strap that stretches
>> under tension. It might not be an issue between a tire and metal band
>> that wasn't under tension and didn't stretch.
>
> Of course the circumfrance of a tire compresses. Don't over complicate
> this - simply let some air out of a tire and watch the circumfrance
> compress.
At the center of the contact patch, the tread will be closer to the hub
than before, but the tread will be as long as before. At the ends of
the contact patch, the tread will be farther from the hub than before.
The subject has been discussed in rec.puzzles: will tire pressure affect
speedometer readings? I got a surveying tape, parked on a level stretch
of smooth pavement, and used masking tape and a plumb bob to mark the
pavement below the center of the rear hub and the sidewall at that spot.
Then I rolled exactly ten revolutions and measured exactly how far the
hub had gone. (It was about 60 feet.)
Then I let air out until the hub was 10% closer to the pavement. I
repeated the rolling experiment. One might say the radius had shrunk
10%, so the distance would be about 6 feet less. As closely as I could
measure, it was 1/16" less. For all I know, it was the same; it's hard
to mark and measure so accurately on asphalt pavement. (I've always
wanted to repeat the test on a really smooth surface.)
Not even the weight of a vehicle will compress the length of a tire's
tread enough for me to measure for sure on ordinary pavement.
>
>> If the band can flex, pressure under a strap at the center would not
>> mean pressure at the edges where the screws are. The hooked rods would
>> transfer pressure across the tread to the shoulders. I suppose each
>> hooked rod could be pulled separately by a chain and a pry bar at the
>> hub hole of the rim.
>
> No need for all of this elboration to simply seat a bead.
It's simple when you can supply air fast enough to build pressure in
spite of leaks. There are lots of patented tools to reduce the gaps
enough to get a little pressure.
>
>> A neighbor who has driven trucks for 30 years pulled in tonight. I
>> described the mystery ring and asked if it might be to seat the bead of
>> a truck tire. He said bands like that are used, and it's much safer
>> than squirting ether into the casing, igniting it from a few yards away,
>> and watching the tire fly into the air.
>
> Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car tire.
> They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a tire.
>
I was thinking of farm vehicles such as the two-ton truck in the photo.
It was a man who had driven big rigs more than 30 years who said
mechanics resorted to squeezing the circumference to seat beads on
big-truck tires. It didn't occur to me to ask about split rims.
Clearly, the band in the photo was made as a welding guide. I suppose
the similar tool the trucker had seen used to mount bias-ply tires had
once been a welding guide. In the photo, I don't know if the welding
guide was placed in the truck for welding, for tire mounting, or for
some other use.
Rob H. wrote:
> I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in number
> 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1473: Maybe it's a way to carry 60 feet of welding cable. I imagine
kinking it or winding it on a small radius would reduce its service life.