QSWO primary material, 12" square, 1/4" tempered hardboard secondary
material, and that must be pre-assembled before finishing.
Fuming with ammonia is the desired/preferred method of finishing.
Question: Would the ammonia fuming process have a detrimental/any effect on
the tempered hardboard?
Lots of conjecture already, thanks ... need some BTDT, if possible.
TIA
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Ammonia is suggested as a solvent for cleaning shellac brushes.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:50:23 -0500, Joe Gorman <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Swingman wrote:
>> "Leon" wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>Wellllll since no one has answered yet and I have absolutely no Idea,
>>>Spearmint on scraps. ;~) IIRC Amononia displaces moisture and if it does
>>>not hurt the wood it should not harm the hardboard IMHO.
>>
>>
>> I do know that some tempered hardboard is made with a tannin based adhesive
>> to reduce formaldehyde emission, and guess what ammonia reacts with ...
>>
>> Based on what little of my organic chemistry I remember, I suspect that any
>> reaction with the ammonia may just make the hardboard harder/brittle, but I
>> don't have time to do the testing and was hoping for a chemist in residence,
>> or "...a yeah I tried that, don't do it".
>>
>> Damn ... I just hate to do $omething for someone that is going to bite me in
>> the butt two years down the road.
>>
>What about a sealer coat of shellac on the hardboard before assembly.
>Or does ammonia penetrate shellac?
>Joe
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:50:23 -0500, Joe Gorman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Or does ammonia penetrate shellac?
Ammonia will ruin shellac (you can use it as a stripper for old
shellac). However it does nothing special to hardboard and even tannates
will only be darkened by it.
"nospambob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ammonia is suggested as a solvent for cleaning shellac brushes.
>
Thanks, Now that I had my learning experience for the day I can spend the
rest of it in a daze.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tom Banes" wrote in message
>
>> More conjecture I fear, but based on a bit of experience.
>>
>> I used a nail board made from HB
>> to support some cherry I fumed and it was real spongy after 48 hours
>> in the fumes -
>
> Doesn't sound a bit like "conjecture" to me ... if that's the case, it's
> back to square one.
>
> Thanks for the input.
Perhaps an email fired off to the Masonite Corp.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> QSWO primary material, 12" square, 1/4" tempered hardboard secondary
> material, and that must be pre-assembled before finishing.
>
> Fuming with ammonia is the desired/preferred method of finishing.
>
> Question: Would the ammonia fuming process have a detrimental/any effect
> on
> the tempered hardboard?
>
> Lots of conjecture already, thanks ... need some BTDT, if possible.
>
> TIA
Wellllll since no one has answered yet and I have absolutely no Idea,
Spearmint on scraps. ;~) IIRC Amononia displaces moisture and if it does
not hurt the wood it should not harm the hardboard IMHO.
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:50:23 -0500, Joe Gorman wrote:
>
> >Or does ammonia penetrate shellac?
>
> Ammonia will ruin shellac (you can use it as a stripper for old
> shellac). However it does nothing special to hardboard and even tannates
> will only be darkened by it.
Thank you, Andy ... I would have been willing to bet Greg G.'s next weeks
beer ration that you would have known the answer. ;)
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Swingman wrote:
> "Leon" wrote in message
>
>
>>Wellllll since no one has answered yet and I have absolutely no Idea,
>>Spearmint on scraps. ;~) IIRC Amononia displaces moisture and if it does
>>not hurt the wood it should not harm the hardboard IMHO.
>
>
> I do know that some tempered hardboard is made with a tannin based adhesive
> to reduce formaldehyde emission, and guess what ammonia reacts with ...
>
> Based on what little of my organic chemistry I remember, I suspect that any
> reaction with the ammonia may just make the hardboard harder/brittle, but I
> don't have time to do the testing and was hoping for a chemist in residence,
> or "...a yeah I tried that, don't do it".
>
> Damn ... I just hate to do $omething for someone that is going to bite me in
> the butt two years down the road.
>
What about a sealer coat of shellac on the hardboard before assembly.
Or does ammonia penetrate shellac?
Joe
"Leon" wrote in message
> Wellllll since no one has answered yet and I have absolutely no Idea,
> Spearmint on scraps. ;~) IIRC Amononia displaces moisture and if it does
> not hurt the wood it should not harm the hardboard IMHO.
I do know that some tempered hardboard is made with a tannin based adhesive
to reduce formaldehyde emission, and guess what ammonia reacts with ...
Based on what little of my organic chemistry I remember, I suspect that any
reaction with the ammonia may just make the hardboard harder/brittle, but I
don't have time to do the testing and was hoping for a chemist in residence,
or "...a yeah I tried that, don't do it".
Damn ... I just hate to do $omething for someone that is going to bite me in
the butt two years down the road.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05
"Tom Banes" wrote in message
> More conjecture I fear, but based on a bit of experience.
>
> I used a nail board made from HB
> to support some cherry I fumed and it was real spongy after 48 hours
> in the fumes -
Doesn't sound a bit like "conjecture" to me ... if that's the case, it's
back to square one.
Thanks for the input.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 17:33:42 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Lots of conjecture already, thanks ... need some BTDT, if possible.
>
>TIA
More conjecture I fear, but based on a bit of experience.
Tempered hardboard seems to have an affinity for absorbing moisture
if it's not sealed. Learned this via my TS cast iron top which I cover
when not in use with a piece of HB. Surface rust within days even
through TopCote. Sealed the HB with a wash coat of shellac and the
problem went away.
Ammonia fumes (NH3) and water (moisture) combine to form ammonium
hydroxide (NH4OH) which is, depending on concentration, a pretty
powerful base. If it won't eat cellulose fiber it's the only strong
base I've ever heard of that won't. I used a nail board made from HB
to support some cherry I fumed and it was real spongy after 48 hours
in the fumes - I suspect moisture in the HB, and then good old
ammonium hydroxide had its way with the fiber.
Suggest you seal the HB with a coat of varnish, poly, anything but
shellac before fuming.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:30:20 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Thanks, Now that I had my learning experience for the day I can spend the
>rest of it in a daze.
So don't sniff the ammonia !
"Leon" wrote in message
> Perhaps an email fired off to the Masonite Corp.
I did, and not only did they reply back, they also called this afternoon ...
this despite the fact that they no longer make any sheetgoods whatsoever.
Very nice fellow (Director of Communications) said they turned it over to
their wood science department, got back a "ton of information" and:
"Bottom line- the Ammonia shouldn't cause a structural problem. The board
surface might get a little fuzzy, but it should still be ok."
I told him I would no longer hesitate to put Masonite doors in some of our
houses. ;)
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