On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
> >
> > The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
> >
> > "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
> >
>
> Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
>
> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
> the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the Jet
clamps that they damage the wood?
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too=20
>> tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
>> Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages to=
>=20
>> actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.=20
>> If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue when=
>=20
>> trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
>
>Do you guys use the KP blocks for stacking the clamps perpendicular to each
>other?
>
>https://www.woodcraft.com/products/bessey-kp-blocks-set-of-4
I have a set of four. I've used them a couple of times when gluing
up small boxes, for which they're quite useful. But generally, I'm
not doing four-sided clamping with them and the KP blocks sit off to
the side.
On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 5/31/2018 11:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> > On 5/31/18 10:32 AM, Leon wrote:
> >> On 5/29/2018 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my=20
> >>>>> local Craigslist.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dog=
s.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F790=
22
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jets are ok,=C2=A0 You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it me=
ets the
> >>>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denti=
ng
> >>>> the wood.=C2=A0 NOT THE CASE with Jet.=C2=A0 Jet clamps imprent the =
work.
> >>>
> >>> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the=
=20
> >>> Jet
> >>> clamps that they damage the wood?
> >>>
> >>
> >> I am not sure, but there are straight line imprints on the wood at the=
=20
> >> edge of the clamp faces.=C2=A0 It is probably the hard plastic that th=
ey=20
> >> use, it apparently stays flat.=C2=A0 I would guess that the Cabinetmas=
ter=20
> >> and Bessey clamps have a little give on the surface and they probably=
=20
> >> leave a less visible smoother arc shaped indention with out leaving a=
=20
> >> defined imprint.
> >=20
> > If you look at the back side of the tail end jaw, you will see two flat=
=20
> > sections of steel bar stock used, horizontally on the left and right=20
> > sides of the jaw.=C2=A0 These are covered in that plastic housing, whic=
h is=20
> > the only thing on the flat/clamping section of the jaw that presses=20
> > against the wood.
> >=20
> > The handscrew end has a steel box-like structure, covered in the plasti=
c=20
> > housing, but there is steel across the section that presses against the=
=20
> > wood.
> >=20
> > The tail end jaw has the edges of the steel bar stock pushing against=
=20
> > the plastic, and against the wood being clamped.=C2=A0 Obviously, the h=
ollow=20
> > middle section has more give than the edge section which are backed by=
=20
> > the steel.=C2=A0 So the imprints you see are the edge sections where th=
e=20
> > steel is on the edges.
> >=20
> > Very poor design, imo.
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> The beauty of the "K Body" and clone design clamps is that you do not=20
> have to use a cushion between the clamp surface and the work, except in=
=20
> this case with the Jet's. Yes, the Jet design team missed the point=20
> totally. I am certain they looked at the competition and designed their=
=20
> own version. BUT they did not actually do any field testing to compare=
=20
> results. I would bet that the testing and one box to check. Do they=20
> clamp, YES. Do the clamps damage the wood, not on the qualification=20
> check list.
>=20
> I once bought a set of clones at a WW show and they were designed by=20
> that vendor that I bought them from. No one else sold this particular=20
> clamp.
> Great clamps, EXCEPT the plastic material used on the clamping surfaces=
=20
> OOZED oil and permanently stained the wood. I returned the clamps.
>=20
> I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too=20
> tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
> Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages to=
=20
> actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.=20
> If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue when=
=20
> trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
Do you guys use the KP blocks for stacking the clamps perpendicular to each
other?
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/bessey-kp-blocks-set-of-4
On 5/29/2018 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
>>>
>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>>
>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>>
>>
>> Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
>>
>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
>> the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
>
> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the Jet
> clamps that they damage the wood?
>
I am not sure, but there are straight line imprints on the wood at the
edge of the clamp faces. It is probably the hard plastic that they use,
it apparently stays flat. I would guess that the Cabinetmaster and
Bessey clamps have a little give on the surface and they probably leave
a less visible smoother arc shaped indention with out leaving a defined
imprint.
On 5/31/2018 1:02 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>> On 5/31/2018 11:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>
>> I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too
>> tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
>> Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages to
>> actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.
>> If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue when
>> trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
>>
>
>
> I generally use a finger to hold the bottom of the sliding wedge in
> the correct direction for it to catch immediately - only requires a
> couple turns of the handle to get it tight.
>
I generally am using one hand to hold the clamp in place, the other to
tighten the handle. ;~)
I am actually using Bessy Revo clamps so they may be different that the
old style k Bodies. I can easily tilt the handle to get the wedge to
engage but there is a lot of screwing after that before any pressure is
applied.
Still their screw travel is short compared to Cabinet Masters. I never
owned the old style Bessy k Bodies. If that is what you are using you
are probably having better luck than I am with the Revo's.
On 5/31/2018 11:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/31/18 10:32 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/29/2018 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my
>>>>> local Craigslist.
>>>>>
>>>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
>>>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
>>>>
>>>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
>>>> the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
>>>
>>> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the
>>> Jet
>>> clamps that they damage the wood?
>>>
>>
>> I am not sure, but there are straight line imprints on the wood at the
>> edge of the clamp faces. It is probably the hard plastic that they
>> use, it apparently stays flat. I would guess that the Cabinetmaster
>> and Bessey clamps have a little give on the surface and they probably
>> leave a less visible smoother arc shaped indention with out leaving a
>> defined imprint.
>
> If you look at the back side of the tail end jaw, you will see two flat
> sections of steel bar stock used, horizontally on the left and right
> sides of the jaw. These are covered in that plastic housing, which is
> the only thing on the flat/clamping section of the jaw that presses
> against the wood.
>
> The handscrew end has a steel box-like structure, covered in the plastic
> housing, but there is steel across the section that presses against the
> wood.
>
> The tail end jaw has the edges of the steel bar stock pushing against
> the plastic, and against the wood being clamped. Obviously, the hollow
> middle section has more give than the edge section which are backed by
> the steel. So the imprints you see are the edge sections where the
> steel is on the edges.
>
> Very poor design, imo.
>
>
The beauty of the "K Body" and clone design clamps is that you do not
have to use a cushion between the clamp surface and the work, except in
this case with the Jet's. Yes, the Jet design team missed the point
totally. I am certain they looked at the competition and designed their
own version. BUT they did not actually do any field testing to compare
results. I would bet that the testing and one box to check. Do they
clamp, YES. Do the clamps damage the wood, not on the qualification
check list.
I once bought a set of clones at a WW show and they were designed by
that vendor that I bought them from. No one else sold this particular
clamp.
Great clamps, EXCEPT the plastic material used on the clamping surfaces
OOZED oil and permanently stained the wood. I returned the clamps.
I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too
tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages to
actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.
If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue when
trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
Here is an example of 4 walnut doors with only 8, vs. 16 clamps. Keep
in mind that I started with 4 clamps during the glue up but removed the
two clamps that were only helping to ensure that the rails did not
protrude past the stiles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11889144346/in/dateposted-public/
On 6/1/2018 6:45 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 11:41:19 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/31/2018 9:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 5/31/2018 11:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 5/31/18 10:32 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/29/2018 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my
>>>>>>>>> local Craigslist.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
>>>>>>>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
>>>>>>>> the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the
>>>>>>> Jet
>>>>>>> clamps that they damage the wood?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not sure, but there are straight line imprints on the wood at the
>>>>>> edge of the clamp faces. It is probably the hard plastic that they
>>>>>> use, it apparently stays flat. I would guess that the Cabinetmaster
>>>>>> and Bessey clamps have a little give on the surface and they probably
>>>>>> leave a less visible smoother arc shaped indention with out leaving a
>>>>>> defined imprint.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you look at the back side of the tail end jaw, you will see two flat
>>>>> sections of steel bar stock used, horizontally on the left and right
>>>>> sides of the jaw. These are covered in that plastic housing, which is
>>>>> the only thing on the flat/clamping section of the jaw that presses
>>>>> against the wood.
>>>>>
>>>>> The handscrew end has a steel box-like structure, covered in the plastic
>>>>> housing, but there is steel across the section that presses against the
>>>>> wood.
>>>>>
>>>>> The tail end jaw has the edges of the steel bar stock pushing against
>>>>> the plastic, and against the wood being clamped. Obviously, the hollow
>>>>> middle section has more give than the edge section which are backed by
>>>>> the steel. So the imprints you see are the edge sections where the
>>>>> steel is on the edges.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very poor design, imo.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The beauty of the "K Body" and clone design clamps is that you do not
>>>> have to use a cushion between the clamp surface and the work, except in
>>>> this case with the Jet's. Yes, the Jet design team missed the point
>>>> totally. I am certain they looked at the competition and designed their
>>>> own version. BUT they did not actually do any field testing to compare
>>>> results. I would bet that the testing and one box to check. Do they
>>>> clamp, YES. Do the clamps damage the wood, not on the qualification
>>>> check list.
>>>>
>>>> I once bought a set of clones at a WW show and they were designed by
>>>> that vendor that I bought them from. No one else sold this particular
>>>> clamp.
>>>> Great clamps, EXCEPT the plastic material used on the clamping surfaces
>>>> OOZED oil and permanently stained the wood. I returned the clamps.
>>>>
>>>> I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too
>>>> tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
>>>> Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages to
>>>> actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.
>>>> If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue when
>>>> trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
>>>
>>> Do you guys use the KP blocks for stacking the clamps perpendicular to each
>>> other?
>>>
>>> https://www.woodcraft.com/products/bessey-kp-blocks-set-of-4
>>>
>>
>> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. In fact they cost you
>> depth. They are set up such that you put perpendicular clamp bars on
>> top of each other. The clamp surface of the bottom clamps will be less
>> equal to the thickness of the top clamp bars.
>
> I'm not arguing, just trying to learn. Let's ignore the cost of the blocks
> for the purposes of this discussion.
Understood, not a problem. ;~)
>
> Why does it matter if you lose depth on a glueup that still fits within the
> exposed area of the lower jaws? e.g. any work piece less than 2.5" thick.
In that case it would matter. BUT I build hundreds of drawers and the
vast majority are way deeper than 2.5" thick. So a relative large
amount of the joint does not see the face of the bottom clamp.
In fact a K-Body style clamp has its limitations too. I have worked
around that issue. If I have a 5~7" deep drawer I put the clamp to the
side of the drawer rather than on bottom and on top. The entire length
of these style clamps, top above the bar, the area beside the bar, and
the area under the bar are valid usable clamping surfaces. so I
literally use the entire length of the whole clamp face rather than that
surface just above the bar. I tilt the clamp in at the top.
>
> A 3/4" cabinet door for example. As long as the jaws are parallel along
> their entire length, why does the work piece need to be buried deep into
> the clamp?
In this case not an issue. BUT, did I tell you I build hundreds of
drawers yet??? LOL.
You do not need 4 clamps on a door/drawer after the pressure has been
applied. Two is plenty. In my case I put two clamps on bottom pressing
the stiles against the rails. I put two clamps on top to ensure that
the joints rails are not proud of the stile ends. Once every thing is
lined up and tight I remove the top clamps and move the glued up
assembly and the two bottom clamps out of the way.
The beauty of this method is that you can do twice as many glue ups with
half as many clamps.
>
> In fact, unless you raise the lower clamps (and therefore the work piece)
> off of the work surface, aren't you losing depth on the upper clamps when
> they are inverted as shown here?
>
> https://i.imgur.com/HNQmFlL.jpg
I do not see any clamp blocks.. ;~)
>
> Of course, raising the lower clamps off of your nice flat work surface
> could introduce twist, which we all know we don't want.
I do not have a twisting issue if the clamps are correctly positioned
and tight.
>
> What am I missing?
The expense of using unnecessary clamps blocks.
>>
>> I always put two clamps on bottom and two clamps on top of the glue up.
>
On 6/1/2018 10:43 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>
> Here is an example of 4 walnut doors with only 8, vs. 16 clamps. Keep
> in mind that I started with 4 clamps during the glue up but removed the
> two clamps that were only helping to ensure that the rails did not
> protrude past the stiles.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11889144346/in/dateposted-public/
Also notice that I am using a piece of wood between the "Jet" jaws to
prevent indentations. The Cabinetmasters are not a problem.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 5/31/2018 1:02 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> I generally use a finger to hold the bottom of the sliding wedge in
>> the correct direction for it to catch immediately - only requires a
>> couple turns of the handle to get it tight.
>>
>
>I generally am using one hand to hold the clamp in place, the other to
>tighten the handle. ;~)
>
>I am actually using Bessy Revo clamps so they may be different that the
>old style k Bodies. I can easily tilt the handle to get the wedge to
>engage but there is a lot of screwing after that before any pressure is
>applied.
>
>Still their screw travel is short compared to Cabinet Masters. I never
>owned the old style Bessy k Bodies. If that is what you are using you
>are probably having better luck than I am with the Revo's.
Yeah, I have a bunch of K-bodies.
On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 11:41:19 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 5/31/2018 9:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> On 5/31/2018 11:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>> On 5/31/18 10:32 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 5/29/2018 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >>>>>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my
> >>>>>>> local Craigslist.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench d=
ogs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F7=
9022
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jets are ok,=C2=A0 You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it =
meets the
> >>>>>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent den=
ting
> >>>>>> the wood.=C2=A0 NOT THE CASE with Jet.=C2=A0 Jet clamps imprent th=
e work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about t=
he
> >>>>> Jet
> >>>>> clamps that they damage the wood?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am not sure, but there are straight line imprints on the wood at t=
he
> >>>> edge of the clamp faces.=C2=A0 It is probably the hard plastic that =
they
> >>>> use, it apparently stays flat.=C2=A0 I would guess that the Cabinetm=
aster
> >>>> and Bessey clamps have a little give on the surface and they probabl=
y
> >>>> leave a less visible smoother arc shaped indention with out leaving =
a
> >>>> defined imprint.
> >>>
> >>> If you look at the back side of the tail end jaw, you will see two fl=
at
> >>> sections of steel bar stock used, horizontally on the left and right
> >>> sides of the jaw.=C2=A0 These are covered in that plastic housing, wh=
ich is
> >>> the only thing on the flat/clamping section of the jaw that presses
> >>> against the wood.
> >>>
> >>> The handscrew end has a steel box-like structure, covered in the plas=
tic
> >>> housing, but there is steel across the section that presses against t=
he
> >>> wood.
> >>>
> >>> The tail end jaw has the edges of the steel bar stock pushing against
> >>> the plastic, and against the wood being clamped.=C2=A0 Obviously, the=
hollow
> >>> middle section has more give than the edge section which are backed b=
y
> >>> the steel.=C2=A0 So the imprints you see are the edge sections where =
the
> >>> steel is on the edges.
> >>>
> >>> Very poor design, imo.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> The beauty of the "K Body" and clone design clamps is that you do not
> >> have to use a cushion between the clamp surface and the work, except i=
n
> >> this case with the Jet's. Yes, the Jet design team missed the point
> >> totally. I am certain they looked at the competition and designed the=
ir
> >> own version. BUT they did not actually do any field testing to compar=
e
> >> results. I would bet that the testing and one box to check. Do they
> >> clamp, YES. Do the clamps damage the wood, not on the qualification
> >> check list.
> >>
> >> I once bought a set of clones at a WW show and they were designed by
> >> that vendor that I bought them from. No one else sold this particular
> >> clamp.
> >> Great clamps, EXCEPT the plastic material used on the clamping surface=
s
> >> OOZED oil and permanently stained the wood. I returned the clamps.
> >>
> >> I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too
> >> tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
> >> Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages =
to
> >> actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.
> >> If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue whe=
n
> >> trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
> >=20
> > Do you guys use the KP blocks for stacking the clamps perpendicular to =
each
> > other?
> >=20
> > https://www.woodcraft.com/products/bessey-kp-blocks-set-of-4
> >=20
>=20
> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. In fact they cost you=20
> depth. They are set up such that you put perpendicular clamp bars on=20
> top of each other. The clamp surface of the bottom clamps will be less=
=20
> equal to the thickness of the top clamp bars.
I'm not arguing, just trying to learn. Let's ignore the cost of the blocks
for the purposes of this discussion.
Why does it matter if you lose depth on a glueup that still fits within the=
=20
exposed area of the lower jaws? e.g. any work piece less than 2.5" thick.
A 3/4" cabinet door for example. As long as the jaws are parallel along=20
their entire length, why does the work piece need to be buried deep into=20
the clamp?
In fact, unless you raise the lower clamps (and therefore the work piece)
off of the work surface, aren't you losing depth on the upper clamps when
they are inverted as shown here?
https://i.imgur.com/HNQmFlL.jpg
Of course, raising the lower clamps off of your nice flat work surface
could introduce twist, which we all know we don't want.
What am I missing?
>=20
> I always put two clamps on bottom and two clamps on top of the glue up.
On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
>
> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>
> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>
Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
big washer end, not only the screw itself.
Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
On Tue, 29 May 2018 10:24:26 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 5/29/18 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
>>
>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>
>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>
>
>You might want to hit your local HD, first.
>I've heard good things about the Bessy K-Body REVOlution clamps.
>Two 50" and Two 24" would be $150.
+1
I also like the Bessys because of the available accessories.
On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/29/18 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
> >
> > The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
> >
> > "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
> >
>
> You might want to hit your local HD, first.
> I've heard good things about the Bessy K-Body REVOlution clamps.
> Two 50" and Two 24" would be $150.
>
>
$40 for the 50" Bessy clamps is a heck of a deal on a price-per-pound basis.
Those suckers are heavy!. ;-)
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 5/31/2018 11:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too
>tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
>Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages to
>actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.
>If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue when
>trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
>
I generally use a finger to hold the bottom of the sliding wedge in
the correct direction for it to catch immediately - only requires a
couple turns of the handle to get it tight.
On 5/29/18 6:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
>
> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>
> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>
Still pricey, I'd wait for the eventual sale that comes along.
I own Bessys and these Jets. The Jets are "clunky" but have nice
features. The only drawback I have noticed (after being mentioned in
this group) is the jaws tend to mark softer woods when cranked down.
The advantage I see over my Bessys is the ability to really crank down 8^)
On 5/29/18 8:06 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 5/29/18 6:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local
>> Craigslist.
>>
>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>
>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>
>
> Still pricey, I'd wait for the eventual sale that comes along.
>
> I own Bessys and these Jets. The Jets are "clunky" but have nice
> features. The only drawback I have noticed (after being mentioned in
> this group) is the jaws tend to mark softer woods when cranked down.
> The advantage I see over my Bessys is the ability to really crank down 8^)
What he said. I think the deal that comes a couple times a year is
around $189, new.
I think I used the blocked once and never again. The dogs sit in may
drawer because I don't have that kind of workbench.
And yes to the marking softer woods. Kind of pisses me off when it
happens.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 5/29/18 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
>
> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>
> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>
You might want to hit your local HD, first.
I've heard good things about the Bessy K-Body REVOlution clamps.
Two 50" and Two 24" would be $150.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 5/29/18 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my local Craigslist.
>>>
>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>>
>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>>
>>
>> Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
>>
>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
>> the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
>
> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the Jet
> clamps that they damage the wood?
>
I'd be interested in knowing for sure but if I had to guess, I would say
the plastic covering on the jaws is thinner on the Jets.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 5/31/18 10:32 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/29/2018 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my
>>>> local Craigslist.
>>>>
>>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>>>
>>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>>>
>>>
>>> Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
>>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
>>>
>>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
>>> the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
>>
>> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the Jet
>> clamps that they damage the wood?
>>
>
> I am not sure, but there are straight line imprints on the wood at the
> edge of the clamp faces. It is probably the hard plastic that they use,
> it apparently stays flat. I would guess that the Cabinetmaster and
> Bessey clamps have a little give on the surface and they probably leave
> a less visible smoother arc shaped indention with out leaving a defined
> imprint.
If you look at the back side of the tail end jaw, you will see two flat
sections of steel bar stock used, horizontally on the left and right
sides of the jaw. These are covered in that plastic housing, which is
the only thing on the flat/clamping section of the jaw that presses
against the wood.
The handscrew end has a steel box-like structure, covered in the plastic
housing, but there is steel across the section that presses against the
wood.
The tail end jaw has the edges of the steel bar stock pushing against
the plastic, and against the wood being clamped. Obviously, the hollow
middle section has more give than the edge section which are backed by
the steel. So the imprints you see are the edge sections where the
steel is on the edges.
Very poor design, imo.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 5/31/2018 9:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/31/2018 11:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 5/31/18 10:32 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 5/29/2018 8:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/29/2018 7:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> Where do Jet clamps rank? This set is $260 on Amazon, $200 on my
>>>>>>> local Craigslist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The blocks are shown in the CL listing, no mention of the bench dogs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Great shape, not all covered in glue"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Jet-70411-Parallel-Clamp-Cabinet/dp/B000F79022
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jets are ok, You want to oil the screw PIVOT point where it meets the
>>>>>> big washer end, not only the screw itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also these type clamps normally do not need passing to prevent denting
>>>>>> the wood. NOT THE CASE with Jet. Jet clamps imprent the work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that I'm planning on buying them, but what is different about the
>>>>> Jet
>>>>> clamps that they damage the wood?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure, but there are straight line imprints on the wood at the
>>>> edge of the clamp faces. It is probably the hard plastic that they
>>>> use, it apparently stays flat. I would guess that the Cabinetmaster
>>>> and Bessey clamps have a little give on the surface and they probably
>>>> leave a less visible smoother arc shaped indention with out leaving a
>>>> defined imprint.
>>>
>>> If you look at the back side of the tail end jaw, you will see two flat
>>> sections of steel bar stock used, horizontally on the left and right
>>> sides of the jaw. These are covered in that plastic housing, which is
>>> the only thing on the flat/clamping section of the jaw that presses
>>> against the wood.
>>>
>>> The handscrew end has a steel box-like structure, covered in the plastic
>>> housing, but there is steel across the section that presses against the
>>> wood.
>>>
>>> The tail end jaw has the edges of the steel bar stock pushing against
>>> the plastic, and against the wood being clamped. Obviously, the hollow
>>> middle section has more give than the edge section which are backed by
>>> the steel. So the imprints you see are the edge sections where the
>>> steel is on the edges.
>>>
>>> Very poor design, imo.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The beauty of the "K Body" and clone design clamps is that you do not
>> have to use a cushion between the clamp surface and the work, except in
>> this case with the Jet's. Yes, the Jet design team missed the point
>> totally. I am certain they looked at the competition and designed their
>> own version. BUT they did not actually do any field testing to compare
>> results. I would bet that the testing and one box to check. Do they
>> clamp, YES. Do the clamps damage the wood, not on the qualification
>> check list.
>>
>> I once bought a set of clones at a WW show and they were designed by
>> that vendor that I bought them from. No one else sold this particular
>> clamp.
>> Great clamps, EXCEPT the plastic material used on the clamping surfaces
>> OOZED oil and permanently stained the wood. I returned the clamps.
>>
>> I feel that the Bessy clamps, kBody or revo, are built a little too
>> tight. They can be crotchety to slide open or close.
>> Also their screw travel is short. I find that once the clamp engages to
>> actually start clamping you have used up more than half of the travel.
>> If you use clamps a lot this becomes very irritating. A big issue when
>> trying to close a mortise and tenon joint on each end of a rail.
>
> Do you guys use the KP blocks for stacking the clamps perpendicular to each
> other?
>
> https://www.woodcraft.com/products/bessey-kp-blocks-set-of-4
>
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. In fact they cost you
depth. They are set up such that you put perpendicular clamp bars on
top of each other. The clamp surface of the bottom clamps will be less
equal to the thickness of the top clamp bars.
I always put two clamps on bottom and two clamps on top of the glue up.