Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically
just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably don't
contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for alot
of things these days.
Brian.
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something new.
I
> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung oil/urethane
> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
The
> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>
> Thanks
>
>
Patriarch wrote:
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
>> new. I made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>> oil/urethane mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats
>> should I apply? The directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>>
>
> You are testing on scrap, aren't you?
>
> Stop when it looks like you want it to. That might be four or five coats.
> It depends on how you apply it. If you wipe it down qickly, like one of
> the TV gurus does, it builds more slowly, but more evenly.
>
> Patriarch
Patriarch, like you I like shellac for almost everything. A shellac and wax
finish is hard to beat for general use.
Actually, Stoutman asks a question that should really be answered with
another question. What "look" do you want on your project. Oil finishes
will have a low luster but a rich look. Poly's have high luster and a less
rich look. What "look" are you looking for?
Deb
Well ignorance is bliss... Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents
and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil. No ifs,
ands, or buts about it. Do you think there's really tung oil in Minwax Tung
Oil? It says tung oil right on the can, and in fact, it's called "Tung Oil"
The answer is, again, probably not or at best very very little. It's more
likely to be a mixture of various oils and ALOT of paint thinner. Many
different elixers are called "Tung Oil" for mass marketting today. But even
real tung oil doesn't offer anything in the way of protection that linseed
oil doesn't, anyhow. Now, these finishes all have different smell
characteristics because they're wiping varnishes with varying amounts of
oils vs. resins and solvents. So like I said, I believe Seal-A-Cell to have
more oil than Arm-R-Seal, and so the protective characteristics of
Seal-A-Cell aginst products like household cleaners is going to be less than
Arm-R-Seal. And furthermore, if comparing Arm-R-Seal to straight poly such
as Minwax, one will find that the Minwax will win against harsh household
chemicals. It has to do with the resin contents of each of these finishes
that varies... More oil vs. more resin. And the higher resin content of
Minwax poly vs. Arm-R-Seal or Arm-R-Seal vs. Seal-A-Cell gives the greatest
protection. This is why Arm-R-Seal is the "top coat" product, which begs
the question: why bother with the Seal-A-Cell undercoat at all? It's a good
question becayse the line about oils sealing and penetrating is sooo
overblown. Nothing seals like shellac.
FWIW
Brian.
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and
behaves
> nothing like polyurethane.
>
> Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.
>
>
> "Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are
> > basically
> > just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably
don't
> > contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for
> > alot
> > of things these days.
> >
> > Brian.
> >
> >
> > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
new.
> > I
> >> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
> >> oil/urethane
> >> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
> > The
> >> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
stoutman wrote:
> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
new. I
> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
oil/urethane
> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I
apply? The
> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
Depends if you want a sheen to it or not. My latest favorite finish is
a Oil/Wax finish. I put one coat of oil (which is really a Tung
Varnish, Minwax variety) to bring out the grain... Wait a couple of
days, then apply a paste wax with 00 or 0000 steel wool as the
applicator. Rub the hell out of it, and IMMEDIATELY wipe off the
excess. I do not let the wax dry, otherwise I get streaks. It gets
REALLY smooth, and develops a soft shine to it.
stoutman wrote:
> >Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents
> > and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil.
>
>
> Bri, What lab did you have it analyzed at for its percent tung oil
content?
> How do you know it has no (or very little) tung oil in it? What are
you
> baseing this on?
LOL. Alright, well, if you're not willing to do any legwork of your
own to discover what is common knowledge, then so be it. But why not
compare the cost of high quality natural tung oil to the cost of
synthetic resins, and then come to a more educated conclusion as to its
assay based on the price of a quart of Seal-A-Cell. Why not compare
the drying time of a month or so for real tung oil to the drying time
of under one day for Seal-A-Cell, and then decide if there's really
enough tung oil (or other oil) in it to make a difference? Or at the
very least, why not just be open to the possibility that there's no
less marketing hype in commerical wood finishing products than in
anything else you see advertised every single day?
Brian.
Brian.
No. The Arm-R-Seal is basically poly. The Seal-A-Cell is nothing more
than an oil/varnish mixture. It contains no real tung oil, shouldn't
be called "tung oil" just like the Minwax product shouldn't. In fact,
both are almost identical and contain linseed oil rather than tung oil.
Tung oil is a marketting catch phrase that is misleading nowadays.
Check your can. If hasn't been sitting on the shelf for a while,
you'll see that General Finishes has taken all reference to "tung oil"
off their label and literature and now just refer to "oil". Minwax
should follow their lead. But I wouldn't get to hung up on the type of
oil. There's nothing special about tung oil vs. linseed oil anyhow,
and not enough of ANY oil in the GF product to matter too terribly much
- especially if you overcoat it.
These are the facts. Take it or leave it. I'm done with this thread.
Brian.
stoutman wrote:
> Brian,
>
> Wow, you are really convincing. What leg work did you do for me?
All you
> do is speculate.
>
> Your logic:
>
> "but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically just poly" because the
price
> of pure tung oil is more expensive than Seal-A-Cell.
>
> hmm. Seal A Cell is not "pure" tung oil. I never claimed that and
neither
> does GF. How can you compare the price of "pure" tung oil with a
finish
> that is a some percentage of tung oil? When you buy "pure" tung oil,
how do
> you know you are getting "pure" tung oil? Do you have access to an
hplc?
>
> Again, how can you compare the drying time of "pure" tung oil with a
finish
> that is a mixture of tung oil and urethane? Apples and oranges
Brian. Come
> on man.
>
> Marketing hype?? Why not ad "conspiracy theory" while your at it.
>
> If this is all you have to base your decision on regarding the
presence of
> Tung oil in Seal-A-Cell (Lets review, 1. price, 2. drying time, 3.
marketing
> hype) then ... VERY weak.
>
> So you are under the impression that GF is marketing Seal-A-Cell as a
tung
> oil/varnish mix and it is really "basically just poly". Hmmm. You
must be
> right Bri. You certainly convinced me.. :)
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > stoutman wrote:
> >> >Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents
> >> > and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bri, What lab did you have it analyzed at for its percent tung oil
> > content?
> >> How do you know it has no (or very little) tung oil in it? What
are
> > you
> >> baseing this on?
> >
> >
> > LOL. Alright, well, if you're not willing to do any legwork of
your
> > own to discover what is common knowledge, then so be it. But why
not
> > compare the cost of high quality natural tung oil to the cost of
> > synthetic resins, and then come to a more educated conclusion as to
its
> > assay based on the price of a quart of Seal-A-Cell. Why not
compare
> > the drying time of a month or so for real tung oil to the drying
time
> > of under one day for Seal-A-Cell, and then decide if there's really
> > enough tung oil (or other oil) in it to make a difference? Or at
the
> > very least, why not just be open to the possibility that there's no
> > less marketing hype in commerical wood finishing products than in
> > anything else you see advertised every single day?
> >
> > Brian.
> >
> > Brian.
> >
In article <[email protected]>, stoutman
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Who should I believe, some guy ranting on the internet with no
> real argument other than speculation or the can in front of me that says
> tung oil?
ALWAYS believe the guy on the internet.
--
"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B,
sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and
behaves
> nothing like polyurethane.
>
> Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.
>
>
> "Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are
> > basically
> > just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably
don't
> > contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for
> > alot
> > of things these days.
One is linseed/urethane, the other tung/urethane. Rest is in the volatiles.
If you can take the smell of tung, have at it.
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My recent dissatisfaction with poly stems from several problems that arise
> for me that are difficult to combat. Drips, peeling, difficult to repair,
> cutting through the finish with pumice etc. Also I don't like the
"plastic
> feel" of poly. Having not tried too many finishes, I wanted to try
> something that was easy to apply. After flipping through my copy of
> "Understanding wood finishing" by Flexner, I decided on a tung
oil/urethane
> mix. I applied 2-coats and I was happy with the results. In the future I
> think I might give shellac a go.
>
>
I suppose you know that poly is short for poly(merized), and that the resin
which is polymerizing is urethane?
Brian,
Wow, you are really convincing. What leg work did you do for me? All you
do is speculate.
Your logic:
"but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically just poly" because the price
of pure tung oil is more expensive than Seal-A-Cell.
hmm. Seal A Cell is not "pure" tung oil. I never claimed that and neither
does GF. How can you compare the price of "pure" tung oil with a finish
that is a some percentage of tung oil? When you buy "pure" tung oil, how do
you know you are getting "pure" tung oil? Do you have access to an hplc?
Again, how can you compare the drying time of "pure" tung oil with a finish
that is a mixture of tung oil and urethane? Apples and oranges Brian. Come
on man.
Marketing hype?? Why not ad "conspiracy theory" while your at it.
If this is all you have to base your decision on regarding the presence of
Tung oil in Seal-A-Cell (Lets review, 1. price, 2. drying time, 3. marketing
hype) then ... VERY weak.
So you are under the impression that GF is marketing Seal-A-Cell as a tung
oil/varnish mix and it is really "basically just poly". Hmmm. You must be
right Bri. You certainly convinced me.. :)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> stoutman wrote:
>> >Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents
>> > and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil.
>>
>>
>> Bri, What lab did you have it analyzed at for its percent tung oil
> content?
>> How do you know it has no (or very little) tung oil in it? What are
> you
>> baseing this on?
>
>
> LOL. Alright, well, if you're not willing to do any legwork of your
> own to discover what is common knowledge, then so be it. But why not
> compare the cost of high quality natural tung oil to the cost of
> synthetic resins, and then come to a more educated conclusion as to its
> assay based on the price of a quart of Seal-A-Cell. Why not compare
> the drying time of a month or so for real tung oil to the drying time
> of under one day for Seal-A-Cell, and then decide if there's really
> enough tung oil (or other oil) in it to make a difference? Or at the
> very least, why not just be open to the possibility that there's no
> less marketing hype in commerical wood finishing products than in
> anything else you see advertised every single day?
>
> Brian.
>
> Brian.
>
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:28:52 GMT, "Jim Warman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I don't think shellac will be his answer either. Sounds like he is looking
>for a quick do..... My limited experience shows the finish to be one of the
>big parts of the project (used tung oil many times). Like the original
>poster, I find this to be unrewarding as far as the feeling of acomplishment
>goes... probably not the right choice of words but feelings can be hard to
>describe.
Actually, I know it is the forbidden finish of rec.woodworking, but
for something quick that looks pretty nice, I like the old minwax
"natural" stain. All the other minwax stains I've tried suck, but
that one is pretty user-friendly and quick.
I guess I found that Shellac is pretty quick as well- one hour between
coats V. 24 hours between coats makes a lot of difference to me!
Not sure exactly what you mean by the feeling of accomplishment- you
mean the finish isn't as nice as you'd like it to be, or that you feel
it wasn't challenging enough? I know that as far as I'm concerned, if
I've got a finish on my piece and it hasn't destroyed it, I feel like
I've worked a miracle! Finishing is a damn sketchy business- part
alchemy, part science and a lot of guesswork and muddling around, even
with the books I've got on it.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"Patriarch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
>> new. I made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>> oil/urethane mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats
>> should I apply? The directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>>
>
> You are testing on scrap, aren't you?
>
> Stop when it looks like you want it to. That might be four or five coats.
> It depends on how you apply it. If you wipe it down qickly, like one of
> the TV gurus does, it builds more slowly, but more evenly.
>
Building implies developing a film. If he wants a film, he should just use
poly; it will produce a better result than poly/oil.
My recent dissatisfaction with poly stems from several problems that arise
for me that are difficult to combat. Drips, peeling, difficult to repair,
cutting through the finish with pumice etc. Also I don't like the "plastic
feel" of poly. Having not tried too many finishes, I wanted to try
something that was easy to apply. After flipping through my copy of
"Understanding wood finishing" by Flexner, I decided on a tung oil/urethane
mix. I applied 2-coats and I was happy with the results. In the future I
think I might give shellac a go.
Thanks
"Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This issue doesn't have a simple answer. It depends on what he is trying
> to accomplish. Repeated coats of tung oil look good, but the "law of
> diminishing effects" applies. Since tung oil soaks in rather than
> building up, eventually you are just wiping off what you put on. Stop
> when it isn't making any more difference, or when it looks good. Can be
> modified with a coat or two of wax. The question of what finish also
> depends on how the object will be used. Go to the library.
>
> Steve
>
> "Jim Warman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:UMENd.18019$tU6.9532@edtnps91...
>>I don't think shellac will be his answer either. Sounds like he is looking
>> for a quick do..... My limited experience shows the finish to be one of
>> the
>> big parts of the project (used tung oil many times). Like the original
>> poster, I find this to be unrewarding as far as the feeling of
>> acomplishment
>> goes... probably not the right choice of words but feelings can be hard
>> to
>> describe.
>>
>> Jim Warman
>> [email protected]
>>
>> "Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 02:59:21 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
>>> >new.
>> I
>>> >made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>> oil/urethane
>>> >mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
>> The
>>> >directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>>>
>>> Lost your patience with poly, eh? I doubt that Tung oil is the
>>> direction you want to go, then! It's a nice looking finish, but it
>>> usually takes me about 30-50 hours (including the drying time) to get
>>> a nice looking finish with it. Maybe you want to give Shellac a
>>> try...
>>>
>>> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
>>
>>
>
>
"Dan Valleskey" <valleskey at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:03:22 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and
>>behaves
>>nothing like polyurethane.
>>
>>Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.
>>
>>"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are
>>> basically
>>> just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably
>>> don't
>>> contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for
>>> alot
>>> of things these days.
>>>
>>> Brian.
>>>
>>>
>>> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
>>>> new.
>>> I
>>>> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>>>> oil/urethane
>>>> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
>>> The
>>>> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>
>
> Part of the allure of GF stuff for me, is the wipe on aspect. But
> that means, lots of coats. Thin coats. 4 or 5 or 6 if you really
> want a nice rich look. But it goes on fast, dries fast. I liked it
> enough to buy a second can. I haven't bought a 2nd can of any one
> finsih product in a long time. I like this stuff.
>
> -Dan V.
So do I, Dan. I live about 15 minutes from the General factory and just
picked up a can of Sealacell in a discontinues color that had been recalled.
I'm using their satin finish over the oil/poly stain on a stereo cabinet
with different techniques: big coats for the interior that won't be noticed
and wipe-off for the exterior. It dries beautifully and used properly gives
a deep richness that a simple film can't provide.
P.S. I've also used shellac but for this guy I wanted something that would
stay moist longer on those large areas. Shellac is a pain when it dries too
soon and wrinkles.
Bob
yes. i found thw tung oil/urethane much easier to apply.
"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> My recent dissatisfaction with poly stems from several problems that
>> arise
>> for me that are difficult to combat. Drips, peeling, difficult to
>> repair,
>> cutting through the finish with pumice etc. Also I don't like the
> "plastic
>> feel" of poly. Having not tried too many finishes, I wanted to try
>> something that was easy to apply. After flipping through my copy of
>> "Understanding wood finishing" by Flexner, I decided on a tung
> oil/urethane
>> mix. I applied 2-coats and I was happy with the results. In the future
>> I
>> think I might give shellac a go.
>>
>>
>
> I suppose you know that poly is short for poly(merized), and that the
> resin
> which is polymerizing is urethane?
>
>
>Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents
> and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil.
Bri, What lab did you have it analyzed at for its percent tung oil content?
How do you know it has no (or very little) tung oil in it? What are you
baseing this on?
"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well ignorance is bliss... Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all
> intents
> and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil. No ifs,
> ands, or buts about it. Do you think there's really tung oil in Minwax
> Tung
> Oil? It says tung oil right on the can, and in fact, it's called "Tung
> Oil"
> The answer is, again, probably not or at best very very little. It's more
> likely to be a mixture of various oils and ALOT of paint thinner. Many
> different elixers are called "Tung Oil" for mass marketting today. But
> even
> real tung oil doesn't offer anything in the way of protection that linseed
> oil doesn't, anyhow. Now, these finishes all have different smell
> characteristics because they're wiping varnishes with varying amounts of
> oils vs. resins and solvents. So like I said, I believe Seal-A-Cell to
> have
> more oil than Arm-R-Seal, and so the protective characteristics of
> Seal-A-Cell aginst products like household cleaners is going to be less
> than
> Arm-R-Seal. And furthermore, if comparing Arm-R-Seal to straight poly
> such
> as Minwax, one will find that the Minwax will win against harsh household
> chemicals. It has to do with the resin contents of each of these finishes
> that varies... More oil vs. more resin. And the higher resin content of
> Minwax poly vs. Arm-R-Seal or Arm-R-Seal vs. Seal-A-Cell gives the
> greatest
> protection. This is why Arm-R-Seal is the "top coat" product, which begs
> the question: why bother with the Seal-A-Cell undercoat at all? It's a
> good
> question becayse the line about oils sealing and penetrating is sooo
> overblown. Nothing seals like shellac.
>
> FWIW
>
> Brian.
>
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and
> behaves
>> nothing like polyurethane.
>>
>> Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.
>>
>>
>> "Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are
>> > basically
>> > just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably
> don't
>> > contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for
>> > alot
>> > of things these days.
>> >
>> > Brian.
>> >
>> >
>> > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
> new.
>> > I
>> >> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>> >> oil/urethane
>> >> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
>> > The
>> >> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
I don't think shellac will be his answer either. Sounds like he is looking
for a quick do..... My limited experience shows the finish to be one of the
big parts of the project (used tung oil many times). Like the original
poster, I find this to be unrewarding as far as the feeling of acomplishment
goes... probably not the right choice of words but feelings can be hard to
describe.
Jim Warman
[email protected]
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 02:59:21 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something new.
I
> >made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
oil/urethane
> >mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
The
> >directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>
> Lost your patience with poly, eh? I doubt that Tung oil is the
> direction you want to go, then! It's a nice looking finish, but it
> usually takes me about 30-50 hours (including the drying time) to get
> a nice looking finish with it. Maybe you want to give Shellac a
> try...
>
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Smells like tung, behaves like tung, must be polyurethane.
"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well ignorance is bliss... Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all
> intents
> and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil. No ifs,
> ands, or buts about it. Do you think there's really tung oil in Minwax
> Tung
> Oil? It says tung oil right on the can, and in fact, it's called "Tung
> Oil"
> The answer is, again, probably not or at best very very little. It's more
> likely to be a mixture of various oils and ALOT of paint thinner. Many
> different elixers are called "Tung Oil" for mass marketting today. But
> even
> real tung oil doesn't offer anything in the way of protection that linseed
> oil doesn't, anyhow. Now, these finishes all have different smell
> characteristics because they're wiping varnishes with varying amounts of
> oils vs. resins and solvents. So like I said, I believe Seal-A-Cell to
> have
> more oil than Arm-R-Seal, and so the protective characteristics of
> Seal-A-Cell aginst products like household cleaners is going to be less
> than
> Arm-R-Seal. And furthermore, if comparing Arm-R-Seal to straight poly
> such
> as Minwax, one will find that the Minwax will win against harsh household
> chemicals. It has to do with the resin contents of each of these finishes
> that varies... More oil vs. more resin. And the higher resin content of
> Minwax poly vs. Arm-R-Seal or Arm-R-Seal vs. Seal-A-Cell gives the
> greatest
> protection. This is why Arm-R-Seal is the "top coat" product, which begs
> the question: why bother with the Seal-A-Cell undercoat at all? It's a
> good
> question becayse the line about oils sealing and penetrating is sooo
> overblown. Nothing seals like shellac.
>
> FWIW
>
> Brian.
>
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and
> behaves
>> nothing like polyurethane.
>>
>> Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.
>>
>>
>> "Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are
>> > basically
>> > just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably
> don't
>> > contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for
>> > alot
>> > of things these days.
>> >
>> > Brian.
>> >
>> >
>> > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
> new.
>> > I
>> >> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>> >> oil/urethane
>> >> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
>> > The
>> >> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
> new. I made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
> oil/urethane mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats
> should I apply? The directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>
You are testing on scrap, aren't you?
Stop when it looks like you want it to. That might be four or five coats.
It depends on how you apply it. If you wipe it down qickly, like one of
the TV gurus does, it builds more slowly, but more evenly.
Patriarch
"toller" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
>>
>> Stop when it looks like you want it to. That might be four or five
>> coats. It depends on how you apply it. If you wipe it down qickly,
>> like one of the TV gurus does, it builds more slowly, but more
>> evenly.
>>
> Building implies developing a film. If he wants a film, he should
> just use poly; it will produce a better result than poly/oil.
>
If you want no build, then there is no reason to add the urethanes to the
mixture. Sealacell is _reputed_ to work somewhat like my current favorite
varnish oil type finish, Waterlox Original. If I wanted almost no build,
Tried & True products work that way.
The _only_ poly with which I've had success is Varathane Waterbased Diamond
something or other. (It's out in the shop.) But it cures very quickly,
and I haven't learned to spray it with the Critter without some orange
peel. Minwax poly (of any flavor) and I don't seem to get along.
There are too many options in finishes, and variations in requirements, to
get too religious about finishes. Do what works for you. Don't hurry.
Patriarch,
who would prefer to shellac everything, but there are grandkids afoot.
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 02:59:21 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something new. I
>made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung oil/urethane
>mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply? The
>directions on the can are a little sketchy.
Lost your patience with poly, eh? I doubt that Tung oil is the
direction you want to go, then! It's a nice looking finish, but it
usually takes me about 30-50 hours (including the drying time) to get
a nice looking finish with it. Maybe you want to give Shellac a
try...
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
This issue doesn't have a simple answer. It depends on what he is trying to
accomplish. Repeated coats of tung oil look good, but the "law of
diminishing effects" applies. Since tung oil soaks in rather than building
up, eventually you are just wiping off what you put on. Stop when it isn't
making any more difference, or when it looks good. Can be modified with a
coat or two of wax. The question of what finish also depends on how the
object will be used. Go to the library.
Steve
"Jim Warman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:UMENd.18019$tU6.9532@edtnps91...
>I don't think shellac will be his answer either. Sounds like he is looking
> for a quick do..... My limited experience shows the finish to be one of
> the
> big parts of the project (used tung oil many times). Like the original
> poster, I find this to be unrewarding as far as the feeling of
> acomplishment
> goes... probably not the right choice of words but feelings can be hard to
> describe.
>
> Jim Warman
> [email protected]
>
> "Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 02:59:21 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something
>> >new.
> I
>> >made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
> oil/urethane
>> >mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
> The
>> >directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>>
>> Lost your patience with poly, eh? I doubt that Tung oil is the
>> direction you want to go, then! It's a nice looking finish, but it
>> usually takes me about 30-50 hours (including the drying time) to get
>> a nice looking finish with it. Maybe you want to give Shellac a
>> try...
>>
>> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
>
>
I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and behaves
nothing like polyurethane.
Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.
"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are
> basically
> just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably don't
> contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for
> alot
> of things these days.
>
> Brian.
>
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something new.
> I
>> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>> oil/urethane
>> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
> The
>> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:03:22 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and behaves
>nothing like polyurethane.
>
>Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.
>
>"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are
>> basically
>> just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably don't
>> contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for
>> alot
>> of things these days.
>>
>> Brian.
>>
>>
>> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something new.
>> I
>>> made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung
>>> oil/urethane
>>> mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply?
>> The
>>> directions on the can are a little sketchy.
Part of the allure of GF stuff for me, is the wipe on aspect. But
that means, lots of coats. Thin coats. 4 or 5 or 6 if you really
want a nice rich look. But it goes on fast, dries fast. I liked it
enough to buy a second can. I haven't bought a 2nd can of any one
finsih product in a long time. I like this stuff.
-Dan V.
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:38:17 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>My recent dissatisfaction with poly stems from several problems that arise
>for me that are difficult to combat. Drips, peeling, difficult to repair,
>cutting through the finish with pumice etc. Also I don't like the "plastic
>feel" of poly. Having not tried too many finishes, I wanted to try
>something that was easy to apply. After flipping through my copy of
>"Understanding wood finishing" by Flexner, I decided on a tung oil/urethane
>mix. I applied 2-coats and I was happy with the results. In the future I
>think I might give shellac a go.
There ya go- that makes more sense now. I've been playing with
shellac for the last six months or so, and it's definately worth a
look as an alternative to poly, IMO. Of course, there's really
nothing wrong with a good laquer, either. Both of them seem to
eliminate that "plastic feel" and make a really nice hard, shiny coat.
Shellac repairs easily, and I've never had it peel.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Maybe your right...not sure. You just didn't convince me. The can says
tung oil. Who should I believe, some guy ranting on the internet with no
real argument other than speculation or the can in front of me that says
tung oil?
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No. The Arm-R-Seal is basically poly. The Seal-A-Cell is nothing more
> than an oil/varnish mixture. It contains no real tung oil, shouldn't
> be called "tung oil" just like the Minwax product shouldn't. In fact,
> both are almost identical and contain linseed oil rather than tung oil.
> Tung oil is a marketting catch phrase that is misleading nowadays.
>
> Check your can. If hasn't been sitting on the shelf for a while,
> you'll see that General Finishes has taken all reference to "tung oil"
> off their label and literature and now just refer to "oil". Minwax
> should follow their lead. But I wouldn't get to hung up on the type of
> oil. There's nothing special about tung oil vs. linseed oil anyhow,
> and not enough of ANY oil in the GF product to matter too terribly much
> - especially if you overcoat it.
>
> These are the facts. Take it or leave it. I'm done with this thread.
>
> Brian.
>
>
> stoutman wrote:
>> Brian,
>>
>> Wow, you are really convincing. What leg work did you do for me?
> All you
>> do is speculate.
>>
>> Your logic:
>>
>> "but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically just poly" because the
> price
>> of pure tung oil is more expensive than Seal-A-Cell.
>>
>> hmm. Seal A Cell is not "pure" tung oil. I never claimed that and
> neither
>> does GF. How can you compare the price of "pure" tung oil with a
> finish
>> that is a some percentage of tung oil? When you buy "pure" tung oil,
> how do
>> you know you are getting "pure" tung oil? Do you have access to an
> hplc?
>>
>> Again, how can you compare the drying time of "pure" tung oil with a
> finish
>> that is a mixture of tung oil and urethane? Apples and oranges
> Brian. Come
>> on man.
>>
>> Marketing hype?? Why not ad "conspiracy theory" while your at it.
>>
>> If this is all you have to base your decision on regarding the
> presence of
>> Tung oil in Seal-A-Cell (Lets review, 1. price, 2. drying time, 3.
> marketing
>> hype) then ... VERY weak.
>>
>> So you are under the impression that GF is marketing Seal-A-Cell as a
> tung
>> oil/varnish mix and it is really "basically just poly". Hmmm. You
> must be
>> right Bri. You certainly convinced me.. :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > stoutman wrote:
>> >> >Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents
>> >> > and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bri, What lab did you have it analyzed at for its percent tung oil
>> > content?
>> >> How do you know it has no (or very little) tung oil in it? What
> are
>> > you
>> >> baseing this on?
>> >
>> >
>> > LOL. Alright, well, if you're not willing to do any legwork of
> your
>> > own to discover what is common knowledge, then so be it. But why
> not
>> > compare the cost of high quality natural tung oil to the cost of
>> > synthetic resins, and then come to a more educated conclusion as to
> its
>> > assay based on the price of a quart of Seal-A-Cell. Why not
> compare
>> > the drying time of a month or so for real tung oil to the drying
> time
>> > of under one day for Seal-A-Cell, and then decide if there's really
>> > enough tung oil (or other oil) in it to make a difference? Or at
> the
>> > very least, why not just be open to the possibility that there's no
>> > less marketing hype in commerical wood finishing products than in
>> > anything else you see advertised every single day?
>> >
>> > Brian.
>> >
>> > Brian.
>> >
>