Rd

Robatoy

15/05/2005 7:36 PM

Tired of electrical discussions.

This is not intended to create a flame war.

I am deeply concerned about the blatant misinformation being written by
a small group of wRECkers. There is nothing more dangerous than bad
electrical advice.
Many here have genuine questions which should only be answered by
qualified people.
Many answers are the right ones.
A few are downright wrong and dangerous.

How does the uninitiated know the difference?

That's right... they don't.

That makes it a double-dangerous situation:

A) The person with the question doesn't have a clue otherwise the
question wouldn't be asked in here.
B) That person who then gets an answer doesn't have a clue on the
accuracy of such a reply running the risk of burning down the house with
the cat in it, or blowing off a finger, doing irreparable damage to an
expensive motor, or worse, causing death.

ALL of those things are bad.


This topic has 53 replies

lL

[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman)

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 5:29 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:17:05 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
>> <[email protected]> spake:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> > [email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman) wrote:
>> >
>> >> So how is it any different from any other usenet group?
>> >
>> >It's different in here. Can't you feel the love?
>>
>> Not ONE of you fidiots heard the "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Plop!"
>> on this one, did you? <sigh>
>>
>Hey now, what are you trying to say, Larry?
>
>
>
>Hello?
>
>
>
>Larry?

Uh, which Larry?
:)


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

Mi

"Mike in Arkansas"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 5:21 AM

Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry

w

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 8:20 AM

And if you feel you can't resist, just try chanting
"Ooooooohhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm"...

Mi

"Mike in Arkansas"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 9:47 AM

SIR, Message from the BORG!
Put in on speaker Ensign.
"STOP! Resistance is futile"

ww

"woodworker88"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 4:32 PM

But how is bad electrical advice any different from getting bad
(potentially dangerous) advice on how to use a woodworking tool? For
example, using an antikickback or workholding device incorrectly could
cause as many problems as incorrectly wiring something. I'm thinking
about the kinds of things discussed in that thread about millwork being
shot out of a table saw through the shop wall, etc. I think anything
discussed on any forum should be compared with personal experience and
the sound advice of a someone who knows what they are talking about.
Just my opinion, hope people give it some thought.

ww

"woodworker88"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 12:16 AM

>They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or
the
>scope, of the consequences.

Someone just told me about a situation in which a student was leaning
back in a chair/stool in a high school chem lab. The chair slipped,
the kid fell, hit her head on the table. Was a quadraplegic until died
at the age of ~40. Now someone could have said that she got bad advice
about whether to lean a chair back on a slippery floor. Did she regret
getting that information or lack of it? No one will ever know. To me,
advice is advice. Mistakes can kill or maim no matter what they are.
Don't believe me: go into google scholar (searching scholarly articles)
and type in "fatal woodworking accidents." Here is a quote from one of
the articles: "A study from Sweden showed that woodworkers had the
highest incidence rates of accident-related permanent disability among
young workers. " Persson I, Larsson TJ. Accident-related permanent
disabilities of young workers in Sweden 1984-85. Safety Sci. 1991;
14:187-198
I don't seek to offend or put down other people's views or opinions,
but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.

ww

"woodworker88"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 11:04 AM

I now completely see your point. You are correct that very few
woodworking accidents involve others compared to electrical accidents.
However, many electrical accidents on the smaller scale involve only
the amateur electrictian. I do agree that, given the relative scale of
the problems, we should limit this forum to sound woodworking advice.
If in doubt about an electrical problem, contact a licensed
electrician. Doug, thanks for the enlightening discussion.

ww

"woodworker88"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 11:05 AM

Sorry bout the length. Thought it made a point.

w

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 3:20 PM

Wire people digressing from the topic of this thread? I find it very
revolting!! Watts next??? It's time to pull the plug on this stuff!!!
Sam

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 6:56 AM

On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:17:05 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
<[email protected]> spake:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman) wrote:
>
>> So how is it any different from any other usenet group?
>
>It's different in here. Can't you feel the love?

Not ONE of you fidiots heard the "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Plop!"
on this one, did you? <sigh>


------------------------------------------
Do the voices in my head bother you?
------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full-Service Web Development

DB

Duane Bozarth

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

15/05/2005 7:29 PM

RonB wrote:
>
> > How does the uninitiated know the difference?
> >
> Excellent Point

But Rob's been around long enough he should certainly be aware that
nothing he says, does, or posts will affect those he'd like to
reform...it is, after all, usenet.

Gg

"George"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 6:42 AM


"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is not intended to create a flame war.
>
> I am deeply concerned about the blatant misinformation being written by
> a small group of wRECkers. There is nothing more dangerous than bad
> electrical advice.
> Many here have genuine questions which should only be answered by
> qualified people.
> Many answers are the right ones.
> A few are downright wrong and dangerous.
>
> How does the uninitiated know the difference?


Uh, looking it up? Search engines are great things.

Ignorance is an acute condition cured by knowledge. Stupidity is chronic,
because it seeks no knowledge, nor admits its value.

jj

jo4hn

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 3:28 PM

Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry
>>>
>>>Try to find the capacity to resist reading this.
>>
>>How can you impede people from reading this?
>>
>>Particularly considering the magnetic attraction to such a highly charged
>>issue.
>
>
> I was trying to induce a discussion. Never phased on me that it could
> end up like this.

I pay you ohmage for your wit.
j4

Ba

B a r r y

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 3:09 PM

Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry
>
>
> Try to find the capacity to resist reading this.

I'm currently trying to resist the whole thread, although it does have
potential.

Uu

"Upscale"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 11:48 AM

"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
> I pay you ohmage for your wit.

You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 11:51 PM

In article <[email protected]>, "woodworker88" <[email protected]> wrote:
>But how is bad electrical advice any different from getting bad
>(potentially dangerous) advice on how to use a woodworking tool?

Because bad electrical advice can get people _killed_.

> For
>example, using an antikickback or workholding device incorrectly could
>cause as many problems as incorrectly wiring something.

I disagree entirely.

Woodworking accidents are rarely fatal, and generally are the result of
carelessness, inattention, or poor practice - and the consequences normally do
not go much beyond injuries to the one responsible for said carelessness et
cetera, and a ruined piece of lumber.

Improper wiring, by contrast, results with disturbing frequency in residence
fires which do tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage, or
claim the lives of an entire family.

They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or the
scope, of the consequences.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 2:44 PM


"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robatoy wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
>>>
>>>>I pay you ohmage for your wit.
>>>
>>>You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
>>
>>
>> Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!
>
> So much wit, all fused together.

Until the main breaker box gets tripped.

Then we will all be in the dark!


LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 1:45 PM


"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
>> > I pay you ohmage for your wit.
>>
>> You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
>
> Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!

But are the puns up to code??

If the punsters conducted themselves according to code, they would have
installed them in series instead of parallel.


Ww

WillR

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 8:43 AM

Robatoy wrote:
> This is not intended to create a flame war.
>
> I am deeply concerned about the blatant misinformation being written by
> a small group of wRECkers. There is nothing more dangerous than bad
> electrical advice.
> Many here have genuine questions which should only be answered by
> qualified people.
> Many answers are the right ones.
> A few are downright wrong and dangerous.
>
> How does the uninitiated know the difference?

Sometimes even the initiated are puzzled by the answers. :-)

>
> That's right... they don't.
>
> That makes it a double-dangerous situation:
>
> A) The person with the question doesn't have a clue otherwise the
> question wouldn't be asked in here.
> B) That person who then gets an answer doesn't have a clue on the
> accuracy of such a reply running the risk of burning down the house with
> the cat in it, or blowing off a finger, doing irreparable damage to an
> expensive motor, or worse, causing death.
>
> ALL of those things are bad.


Good luck with this one. Too many electrical and electronic types here...

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

lL

[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman)

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 2:46 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Lee Michaels <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry
>>
>> Try to find the capacity to resist reading this.
>
>How can you impede people from reading this?
>
>Particularly considering the magnetic attraction to such a highly charged
>issue.
>
>
>

Absolutely, many people want to keep up with current events.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

BM

Bob Martin

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 5:27 PM

in 1205785 20050516 180850 Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
>> > I pay you ohmage for your wit.
>>
>> You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
>
>Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!

(choke, choke)

CK

Charles Krug

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 4:36 PM

On Mon, 16 May 2005 10:08:51 -0400, Lee Michaels
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry
>>
>> Try to find the capacity to resist reading this.
>
> How can you impede people from reading this?
>
> Particularly considering the magnetic attraction to such a highly charged
> issue.
>

I try to insulate myself from these disputes.

Ww

WillR

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 9:49 AM

Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I pay you ohmage for your wit.
>>>>
>>>>You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
>>>
>>>
>>>Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!
>>
>>So much wit, all fused together.
>
>
> If this condition doesn't rectify itself soon, I'm jumping off a bridge!

I would give you a full wave as you go by but my capacity to enjoy this
crap is reaching a very high level of resistance -- no doubt a sine of
the increasing impedance to meaningful discussion -- this group needs a
new theory less we collapse in a meaningless series as opposed to
something natural -- perhaps we should stick to cutting logs? Surely
it's just another sine in an endless stream that this group is becoming
increasingly polarized -- which gives one the impulse see if we could
find a magnetic personality to give us a new direction instead of
wandering in circles with everything continuously collapsing and
expanding. Yagi, yagi, yagi -- that's all I hear, no focus -- perhaps we
could find someone who would reflect the groups values and start a
stronger wave of focused and related topics in a new continuum.


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

VB

"Vic Baron"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 10:15 PM


"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > This is not intended to create a flame war.
> >
> > I am deeply concerned about the blatant misinformation being written by
> > a small group of wRECkers. There is nothing more dangerous than bad
> > electrical advice.
> > Many here have genuine questions which should only be answered by
> > qualified people.
> > Many answers are the right ones.
> > A few are downright wrong and dangerous.
> >
> > How does the uninitiated know the difference?
>
>
> Uh, looking it up? Search engines are great things.
>
> Ignorance is an acute condition cured by knowledge. Stupidity is chronic,
> because it seeks no knowledge, nor admits its value.
>


Uh, if they knew enough to use a search engine they wouldn't have needed to
use the Wreck in the first place. And if they were just too lazy to do that,
they won't do it AFTER getting any advice.

Just MHO,

Vic

Rr

"RonB"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

15/05/2005 7:42 PM

Again, Excellent Point.

UC

Unquestionably Confused

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 1:06 PM

Lee Gordon wrote:
> <<I feel your pain. But try to control your hysteresis. Don't give
> yourself anode bleed. Step up to the plate and lose your biases.
> Watch those full waves as your arm could come out of its socket.>>
>
> This discussion is really going down the tubes.

And that shocks you how? Haven't you seen the resistance of this group
to terminating some current trend that has them wired?

If you feel strongly about it, perhaps you could conduct a pole and urge
folks to volt against it.

(sorry about that last one, I deserve to whipped
with zip cord for that)

LG

"Lee Gordon"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 2:30 AM

<<I feel your pain. But try to control your hysteresis. Don't give
yourself anode bleed. Step up to the plate and lose your biases.
Watch those full waves as your arm could come out of its socket.>>

This discussion is really going down the tubes.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

jj

jo4hn

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 6:59 PM

Mike in Arkansas wrote:
> SIR, Message from the BORG!
> Put in on speaker Ensign.
> "STOP! Resistance is futile"
>

DANGER, Will Robinson! 50,000 Ohms!

LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 10:08 AM


"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry
>
> Try to find the capacity to resist reading this.

How can you impede people from reading this?

Particularly considering the magnetic attraction to such a highly charged
issue.


lL

[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman)

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 2:44 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>This is not intended to create a flame war.
>
>I am deeply concerned about the blatant misinformation being written by
>a small group of wRECkers. There is nothing more dangerous than bad
>electrical advice.
>Many here have genuine questions which should only be answered by
>qualified people.
>Many answers are the right ones.
>A few are downright wrong and dangerous.
>
>How does the uninitiated know the difference?
>
>That's right... they don't.
>
>That makes it a double-dangerous situation:
>
>A) The person with the question doesn't have a clue otherwise the
>question wouldn't be asked in here.
>B) That person who then gets an answer doesn't have a clue on the
>accuracy of such a reply running the risk of burning down the house with
>the cat in it, or blowing off a finger, doing irreparable damage to an
>expensive motor, or worse, causing death.
>
>ALL of those things are bad.

So how is it any different from any other usenet group?


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

Pg

Patriarch

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 7:42 PM

[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> Improper wiring, by contrast, results with disturbing frequency in
> residence fires which do tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars
> worth of damage, or claim the lives of an entire family.
>
> They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or
> the scope, of the consequences.
>

And they lay in hiding endangering future occupants and workers...

Patriarch

LG

"Lee Gordon"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 2:06 AM

Despite a certain reluctance to charge into the current conversation, I
couldn't resist. Nevertheless, I simply can't give it a volt of confidence.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

Rr

"RonB"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

15/05/2005 7:23 PM

> How does the uninitiated know the difference?
>
Excellent Point

ES

Ed & Sue Beresnikow

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

15/05/2005 11:53 PM



Robatoy wrote:

> This is not intended to create a flame war.
>
> I am deeply concerned about the blatant misinformation being written by
> a small group of wRECkers. There is nothing more dangerous than bad
> electrical advice.
....snip.....
You mean along the line of the "Circular saw won't ground, safe?" thread
that I finally broke down and put 2 cents in to try and get a bit of
realism to the discussion.

I agree with you fully! My back ground does not take me into industrial
areas and I will keep quiet on topics I don't have detailed and thorough
knowledge.

The referenced thread with sticking fingers in light sockets and needing
at least 100mA to kill was really getting me concerned. Thanks for
raising this.

Ed

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 2:43 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
"woodworker88" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I now completely see your point. You are correct that very few
> woodworking accidents involve others compared to electrical accidents.
> However, many electrical accidents on the smaller scale involve only
> the amateur electrictian. I do agree that, given the relative scale of
> the problems, we should limit this forum to sound woodworking advice.
> If in doubt about an electrical problem, contact a licensed
> electrician. Doug, thanks for the enlightening discussion.

Yeah..and WHO said there was no rational thought in UseNet, eh?

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 6:53 PM

In article <%[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:17:05 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
> >> <[email protected]> spake:
> >>
> >> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >> > [email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> So how is it any different from any other usenet group?
> >> >
> >> >It's different in here. Can't you feel the love?
> >>
> >> Not ONE of you fidiots heard the "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Plop!"
> >> on this one, did you? <sigh>
> >>
> >Hey now, what are you trying to say, Larry?
> >
> >
> >
> >Hello?
> >
> >
> >
> >Larry?
>
> Uh, which Larry?
> :)

LOL...wooops... The other Larry.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 12:44 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:

> Robatoy wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Robatoy wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <[email protected]>,
> >>> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I pay you ohmage for your wit.
> >>>>
> >>>>You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!
> >>
> >>So much wit, all fused together.
> >
> >
> > If this condition doesn't rectify itself soon, I'm jumping off a bridge!
>
> I would give you a full wave as you go by but my capacity to enjoy this
> crap is reaching a very high level of resistance -- no doubt a sine of
> the increasing impedance to meaningful discussion -- this group needs a
> new theory less we collapse in a meaningless series as opposed to
> something natural -- perhaps we should stick to cutting logs? Surely
> it's just another sine in an endless stream that this group is becoming
> increasingly polarized -- which gives one the impulse see if we could
> find a magnetic personality to give us a new direction instead of
> wandering in circles with everything continuously collapsing and
> expanding. Yagi, yagi, yagi -- that's all I hear, no focus -- perhaps we
> could find someone who would reflect the groups values and start a
> stronger wave of focused and related topics in a new continuum.

Brilliant!

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 1:08 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
> > I pay you ohmage for your wit.
>
> You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.

Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 2:42 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:

> >I don't seek to offend or put down other people's views or opinions,
> >but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.
>
> As do I. That does *not* mean, however, that I believe all points of view are
> equally valid.

No argument from me, Doug. I know what you mean.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

15/05/2005 11:33 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:

> RonB wrote:
> >
> > > How does the uninitiated know the difference?
> > >
> > Excellent Point
>
> But Rob's been around long enough he should certainly be aware that
> nothing he says, does, or posts will affect those he'd like to
> reform...it is, after all, usenet.

Whoa...reform?? Warn, maybe.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 12:50 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:

> SIR, Message from the BORG!
> Put in on speaker Ensign.
> "STOP! Resistance is futile"

Don't listen to them! They're just armateurs.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 12:43 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:

> Robatoy wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Robatoy wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <[email protected]>,
> >>> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I pay you ohmage for your wit.
> >>>>
> >>>>You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!
> >>
> >>So much wit, all fused together.
> >
> >
> > If this condition doesn't rectify itself soon, I'm jumping off a bridge!
>
> I would give you a full wave as you go by but my capacity to enjoy this
> crap is reaching a very high level of resistance -- no doubt a sine of
> the increasing impedance to meaningful discussion -- this group needs a
> new theory less we collapse in a meaningless series as opposed to
> something natural -- perhaps we should stick to cutting logs? Surely
> it's just another sine in an endless stream that this group is becoming
> increasingly polarized -- which gives one the impulse see if we could
> find a magnetic personality to give us a new direction instead of
> wandering in circles with everything continuously collapsing and
> expanding. Yagi, yagi, yagi -- that's all I hear, no focus -- perhaps we
> could find someone who would reflect the groups values and start a
> stronger wave of focused and related topics in a new continuum.

I feel your pain. But try to control your hysteresis. Don't give
yourself anode bleed. Step up to the plate and lose your biases.
Watch those full waves as your arm could come out of its socket.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 10:41 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry
> >
> > Try to find the capacity to resist reading this.
>
> How can you impede people from reading this?
>
> Particularly considering the magnetic attraction to such a highly charged
> issue.

I was trying to induce a discussion. Never phased on me that it could
end up like this.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 10:33 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:

> Lee Gordon wrote:
> > <<I feel your pain. But try to control your hysteresis. Don't give
> > yourself anode bleed. Step up to the plate and lose your biases.
> > Watch those full waves as your arm could come out of its socket.>>
> >
> > This discussion is really going down the tubes.
>
> And that shocks you how? Haven't you seen the resistance of this group
> to terminating some current trend that has them wired?
>
> If you feel strongly about it, perhaps you could conduct a pole and urge
> folks to volt against it.
>
> (sorry about that last one, I deserve to whipped
> with zip cord for that)

I will strain to gauge the need for a corporal punishment such as that.
I'm in a bit of a flux about physical punishment.
Do not consider this post binding.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 8:57 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Enough! I find this whole discussion shocking. sorry

Try to find the capacity to resist reading this.

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 12:47 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:17:05 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman) wrote:
> >
> >> So how is it any different from any other usenet group?
> >
> >It's different in here. Can't you feel the love?
>
> Not ONE of you fidiots heard the "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Plop!"
> on this one, did you? <sigh>
>
Hey now, what are you trying to say, Larry?



Hello?



Larry?

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 5:33 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:

> Robatoy wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
> >>
> >>>I pay you ohmage for your wit.
> >>
> >>You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
> >
> >
> > Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!
>
> So much wit, all fused together.

If this condition doesn't rectify itself soon, I'm jumping off a bridge!

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 11:17 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman) wrote:

> So how is it any different from any other usenet group?

It's different in here. Can't you feel the love?

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 9:13 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
"woodworker88" <[email protected]> wrote:


[severely snipped for brevity]


> but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.
The point of my original post was to try to warn people that just
because somebody offers up an answer, with some sound of authority, that
it could be wrong.
I think you are right to say that it's not just the topic of electricity
which can create a hazard with a wrong answer/advice.
----> EXAMPLE!!!..."When turning a bowl, you can see MUCH better if you
take off your safety glasses" <------THAT is an example.

KC

"Keith Carlson"

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 2:01 AM

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is not intended to create a flame war.
>
> I am deeply concerned about the blatant misinformation being written by
> a small group of wRECkers. There is nothing more dangerous than bad
> electrical advice.

If you ask me (okay, you didn't), I'd prefer that newsgroups leave it up to
the individual's own judgement on whether they should rely on information
they get in the group. (And whether they should even attempt certain
repairs/tasks themselves rather than hire a professional). We all have to do
that in our "real" life, don't we? It could just as easily be your fishin'
buddy, work colleague, or next door neighbor who tells you that you can't be
electrocuted with 120VAC. In any case, we all need to use our own judgement
about what advice we take, and we're all responsible for our actions.

The alternative, it would seem to me, would be something like alt.hvac where
it's tough to get any advice from the group. Not very helpful to be told
"call your local contractor".

Ba

B a r r y

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

16/05/2005 5:32 PM

Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
>>
>>>I pay you ohmage for your wit.
>>
>>You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
>
>
> Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!

So much wit, all fused together.

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

18/05/2005 12:39 PM

In article <[email protected]>, "woodworker88" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or
>the
>>scope, of the consequences.
>
>Someone just told me about a situation in which a student was leaning
>back in a chair/stool in a high school chem lab. The chair slipped,
>the kid fell, hit her head on the table. Was a quadraplegic until died
>at the age of ~40. Now someone could have said that she got bad advice
>about whether to lean a chair back on a slippery floor. Did she regret
>getting that information or lack of it? No one will ever know. To me,
>advice is advice. Mistakes can kill or maim no matter what they are.

True - but you're completely ignoring the concept of "relative risk". Bad
electrical wiring is _far_ more likely to cause serious injury or death, and
major property damage, than bad practices in a woodshop - and the consequences
affect innocent people as well as (or instead of) the boob who caused the
problem.

>Don't believe me: go into google scholar (searching scholarly articles)
>and type in "fatal woodworking accidents." Here is a quote from one of
>the articles: "A study from Sweden showed that woodworkers had the
>highest incidence rates of accident-related permanent disability among
>young workers. " Persson I, Larsson TJ. Accident-related permanent
>disabilities of young workers in Sweden 1984-85. Safety Sci. 1991;
>14:187-198

I'm not sure you've grasped my point yet. How many of those woodworking
accidents injured, disabled, or killed anyone besides the woodworker? How many
of those accidents caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in property damage?
Electrical fires do these things; woodworking accidents do not.

>I don't seek to offend or put down other people's views or opinions,
>but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.

As do I. That does *not* mean, however, that I believe all points of view are
equally valid.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

AG

Art Greenberg

in reply to Robatoy on 15/05/2005 7:36 PM

17/05/2005 12:28 AM

On Mon, 16 May 2005 17:33:46 -0400, Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Robatoy wrote:
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:6_2ie.2450
> > >>
> > >>>I pay you ohmage for your wit.
> > >>
> > >>You people need to shunt your conversation to another venue.
> > >
> > >
> > > Quite a series of puns. Parallels no other thread here!
> >
> > So much wit, all fused together.
>
> If this condition doesn't rectify itself soon, I'm jumping off a bridge!

You seem to have the capacity to induce a great deal of laughter.

(I know, not perfect ...)

--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse DOT net


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