On 12/8/2014 1:14 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:47:04 PM UTC-6, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>> Here is another take on things: Because the Job Site Saw has the flesh
>> sensing technology guys like Osorio will feel that is perfectly safe to
>> freehand wood through the saw without a fence, miter gauge, sled, etc. The
>> Saw Stop technology could thus be viewed as facilitating the unsafe use of
>> the table saw.
>
> Or just possibly, maybe, there is an outside chance that the flesh sensing technology will seen as an additional safety feature. I think there are a great deal of folks that welcome any advantage they can get against tool accidents.
>
> These arguments are left over from the teeth gnashing, brittle screaming about civil right violations from a nanny state, and all the other attendant bullshit that went with the initial 1000 post thread(s) over the original SawStop table saw. The outrage, the indignation, the defiant attitudes, the chest pounding proclamations... I remember them well.
>
> I hear the same argument of safety features making folks lose their minds on the knife forum website where I participate. This happens when folding knives with locking blades come up compared to non locking blades. The reasoning there is that others are not nearly as smart as the person posting and will certainly use the knife with a lock blade incorrectly (as a fixed blade) and will wind up with a missing finger or worse simply because having a locking knife will be roughly the equivalent of dropping acid.
>
> Some of the most profound cynics feel that safety features encourage profound stupidity over there, too. Maybe in their world. In my world of workers that use tools to make a living, most welcome a safety feature that actually works. Our only problem is affording the technology.
>
> Robert
>
Very well said Robert. When you actually use these tools you know
better. When you sit back and look for problems you see nothing but
problems and get nothing done.
On 12/7/2014 5:47 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:49:58 -0500, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>>> Only a few dollars more than the Ryobi saw used by Carlos Osorio, the
>>> flooring contractor's employee...!! Not!
>
>> But I bet that contractor (and a lot of others) puts one on order :-).
>
> Here is another take on things: Because the Job Site Saw has the flesh
> sensing technology guys like Osorio will feel that is perfectly safe to
> freehand wood through the saw without a fence, miter gauge, sled, etc.
> The Saw Stop technology could thus be viewed as facilitating the unsafe
> use of the table saw.
>
No, actually guys like Osorio already feel that way without flesh
sensing technology. Just ask Osorio, Tommy Silva, and Norm Abrams.
On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 23:14:33 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:47:04 PM UTC-6, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>> Here is another take on things: Because the Job Site Saw has the flesh
>> sensing technology guys like Osorio will feel that is perfectly safe to
>> freehand wood through the saw without a fence, miter gauge, sled, etc. The
>> Saw Stop technology could thus be viewed as facilitating the unsafe use of
>> the table saw.
>
>Or just possibly, maybe, there is an outside chance that the flesh sensing technology will seen as an additional safety feature. I think there are a great deal of folks that welcome any advantage they can get against tool accidents.
>
>These arguments are left over from the teeth gnashing, brittle screaming about civil right violations from a nanny state, and all the other attendant bullshit that went with the initial 1000 post thread(s) over the original SawStop table saw. The outrage, the indignation, the defiant attitudes, the chest pounding proclamations... I remember them well.
>
>I hear the same argument of safety features making folks lose their minds on the knife forum website where I participate. This happens when folding knives with locking blades come up compared to non locking blades. The reasoning there is that others are not nearly as smart as the person posting and will certainly use the knife with a lock blade incorrectly (as a fixed blade) and will wind up with a missing finger or worse simply because having a locking knife will be roughly the equivalent of dropping acid.
>
>Some of the most profound cynics feel that safety features encourage profound stupidity over there, too. Maybe in their world. In my world of workers that use tools to make a living, most welcome a safety feature that actually works. Our only problem is affording the technology.
Then again Joe tells Bob hey watch this as he runs a hot dog through
the blade and a $100 or so is down the drain. Guess it depends upon
your help, that is what went through my mind when I saw the posting.
So you set up the GoPro watching the saw, and if it is a finger okay,
if some yahoo does hey watch this, dock his check for the cartridge?
Mark
"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:49:58 -0500, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> Only a few dollars more than the Ryobi saw used by Carlos Osorio, the
>> flooring contractor's employee...!! Not!
>But I bet that contractor (and a lot of others) puts one on order :-).
Here is another take on things: Because the Job Site Saw has the flesh
sensing technology guys like Osorio will feel that is perfectly safe to
freehand wood through the saw without a fence, miter gauge, sled, etc. The
Saw Stop technology could thus be viewed as facilitating the unsafe use of
the table saw.
On Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:47:04 PM UTC-6, John Grossbohlin wrote:
=20
> Here is another take on things: Because the Job Site Saw has the flesh=
=20
> sensing technology guys like Osorio will feel that is perfectly safe to=
=20
> freehand wood through the saw without a fence, miter gauge, sled, etc. Th=
e=20
> Saw Stop technology could thus be viewed as facilitating the unsafe use o=
f=20
> the table saw.
Or just possibly, maybe, there is an outside chance that the flesh sensing =
technology will seen as an additional safety feature. I think there are a =
great deal of folks that welcome any advantage they can get against tool ac=
cidents.
These arguments are left over from the teeth gnashing, brittle screaming ab=
out civil right violations from a nanny state, and all the other attendant =
bullshit that went with the initial 1000 post thread(s) over the original S=
awStop table saw. The outrage, the indignation, the defiant attitudes, the =
chest pounding proclamations... I remember them well.=20
I hear the same argument of safety features making folks lose their minds o=
n the knife forum website where I participate. This happens when folding =
knives with locking blades come up compared to non locking blades. The rea=
soning there is that others are not nearly as smart as the person posting a=
nd will certainly use the knife with a lock blade incorrectly (as a fixed b=
lade) and will wind up with a missing finger or worse simply because having=
a locking knife will be roughly the equivalent of dropping acid.
Some of the most profound cynics feel that safety features encourage profou=
nd stupidity over there, too. Maybe in their world. In my world of worker=
s that use tools to make a living, most welcome a safety feature that actua=
lly works. Our only problem is affording the technology.
Robert
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>Well it's here (in North America), at least orders are being taken for
>it. Arrival is expected in March 2015
>http://www.toolnut.com/Sawstop_JSS_MCA_Jobsite_Table_Saw_p/jss-mca.htm?CartID=1
Only a few dollars more than the Ryobi saw used by Carlos Osorio, the
flooring contractor's employee...!! Not!
"Markem" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 23:14:33 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>Some of the most profound cynics feel that safety features encourage
>>profound stupidity over there, too. Maybe in their world. In my world of
>>workers that use tools to make a >living, most welcome a safety feature
>>that actually works. Our only problem is affording the technology.
>Then again Joe tells Bob hey watch this as he runs a hot dog through
>the blade and a $100 or so is down the drain. Guess it depends upon
>your help, that is what went through my mind when I saw the posting.
Yes there are many tradesmen who work safely and appreciate safety devices,
or maybe I should say were. What I've been seeing more and more is tradesmen
who lack any formal training and disregard even the most basic safety
standards while performing tasks with inherent risks (e.g., don't use safety
glasses, hearing protection, dust masks/respirators. etc.). I've been in a
high school level trade school shop quite a number of times recently and
they use eye, hearing, and dust control devices. However, the shop was
dangerously dirty and cluttered with many trip hazards. The shows on TV
(HGTV in particular) show poor and sometimes dangerous work practices. These
are the guys, as Markem notes, that are the problem... and they typically
have bosses who set bad examples and standards.
There are a couple tree outfits around here that I don't want anywhere near
my property, same goes for landscapers, carpenters, plumbers, electricians,
and furnace servicemen. Too much hurry and too little care. I've been in
quite a number of commercial woodworking shops and the lack of dust control
(particularly from sanding), build up of fumes from adhesives, lacquer, and
other finishes and chemicals is enough to choke a horse. These issues are
management/owner issues... Training, work practices, and mandated safety
equipment are their responsibility. Hence my comment about how the SawStop
technology on a job site saw could be seen as facilitating bad work
habits... without the training and management to back it up its still a
problem even if it costs a lot more.
I have also been on site with loggers and their bosses where safety was
paramount. I got certified through the Game of Logging program and met one
owner who had his entire crew there. Not only is he concerned about his
insurance costs and liability but it was clear that he was concerned about
his employees' welfare as well as his own. I hate to say it, but that man
was the exception to what I've been seeing. I also know professional
woodworkers (one of whom also teaches and writes for FWW and other
publications) whom has gone to a SawStop recently. This as despite many
decades of safe work practices he got hurt on his cabinet saw... a newer one
with a riving knife but no SawStop. It's not that I oppose the idea of
SawStop its that it should be part of a package that includes training, work
standards, and management enforcement. The latter items are often missing
from the workman's package... and Sawstop facilitates this through the
technology and advertising.