SW

Spalted Walt

11/01/2017 8:06 PM

Ikea Effect: The Science of Cheap, Crappy Furniture


"We don't need no stinking aprons."

http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design


This topic has 38 replies

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 10:35 AM

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 12:15:47 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

..snip...

> I actually do quite a bit of RTA furniture assembly for people in my area.
> FWIW, I'm very pleased when I find out it will be an IKEA product I'm
> going to assemble because their quality is significantly higher than
> other RTA furniture.
>

...snip...

You would love putting together some of the RTA pieces that I have in my
house. This 9' x 6' x 3' armoire is RTA:

http://s440.photobucket.com/user/DerbyDad03/media/Slide1_zps048d847e.jpg.html

This is one on the connectors that holds the top on (right hand image). You
use any type of round pointed object to turn a barrel nut to draw the
sections together.

http://s440.photobucket.com/user/DerbyDad03/media/Slide2_zps30d5b0d6.jpg.html

The unit knocks down to 10(?) pieces not including the shelves. The biggest
single pieces are the top and the base. Roughly 9 x 3 x 6". The rest are all
about the size of one of the doors.

I have a 6' wide glass front book case, a dining room hutch, a curved glass
china cabinet and a few other pieces from the same manufacturer. They were
made by a German firm (whose name escapes me right now) back in the early
1900's.

ww

whit3rd

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

14/01/2017 1:55 AM

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:21:50 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:38:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:

[about fragile flakeboard product]

> >> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.

> >Good thought but at least a few of those fancy fasteners would not go
> >back together as well the second time as the first.

> Or any screw in termite vomit.

It helps if you put a little white glue in each hole, and (after it dries) apply
a hot iron to flatten the board.

The real key, is to use three screws where you'd use one for solid wood.
Between screws and paint, flakeboard is a high-overhead way to save cash.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 9:50 AM

On 1/12/2017 9:24 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-01-12, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>> Even if their light bulbs were 1/3 what HD was charging? Why not just
>>> go there for the stuff that you would buy - but pay more for - someplace
>>> else?
>
> Actually, I did. I came back (with a friend) and purchased a hanging
> kitchen rack. Again, 1/3rd of what everone else was charging.
>
> OTOH, I looked at a Captain's bed for my daughter. You know, a single
> bed with under bed storage drawers? I looked closely. All
> fiberboard! Jes like Levitz! Nevermind. ;)
>
> nb
>


I will say this about that type furniture. It is good and lasts a long
time as long as you never move it after assembly.

TD

Tim Daneliuk

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 8:35 PM

On 01/11/2017 04:36 PM, ads wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:28 +0000, Spalted Walt
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>>
>> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>>
>
> Just don't let your kids stand on the table. I'd expect the load
> limit to be appreciably less than the table with aprons and corner
> braces...
>


If you allow your children to stand on a table, I'd suggest the problem
is parenting, not the table :)

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 6:56 AM

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 9:39:09 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/13/2017 7:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
> >> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
> >>
> >> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
> >> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
> >> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
> >> went.
> >>
> >> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
> >> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
> >> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
> >> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
> >
> > I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
> >
>
>
> Good thought but at least a few of those fancy fasteners would not go
> back together as well the second time as the first.

BTDT

TD

Tim Daneliuk

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 8:34 PM

On 01/11/2017 02:39 PM, Bill wrote:
> I think the new design is (1) Not as strong and (2) More difficult to repair.

It's not intended to be. Engineering is about design for an intended purpose.
These tables are intended to be inexpensive to buy and replace, rarely to fix.
They are not heirlooms. For many people, they're the first piece of new
"furniture" they buy on their way up the economic food chain.

FWIW, I also buy the occasional tool at HF if I don't need to use it
in heavy duty or continuous application...

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 10:16 AM

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 12:16:59 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
> >On 1/13/2017 8:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >>> On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
> >>>>> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
> >>>>> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
> >>>>> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
> >>>>> went.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
> >>>>> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
> >>>>> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
> >>>>> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
> >>>
> >>> Feel free, but not me.
> >>
> >> I had a particleboard (vinyl woodgrain) bookshelf unit that
> >> I got in 1979. It survived four moves by simply disassembling
> >> it and reassembling it. It's not rocket science.
> >
> >Yeah but yeah but ;~) Back then it was quality compared to recent stuff.
> >
>
> It was ugly crap held together with cheap screws. I can't imagine that
> modern stuff has worse quality.

OK, you win.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 6:26 AM

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:04:32 AM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-01-12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>will there be a trend back to well made furnishings or will the masses
> >>just not care
>
> I figure the later.
>
> My ex taught me about antiques.
>
> Costly? Yes. Worth it? Yes.
>
> Anecdote: Went to the closest Ikea to see what all the hub-bub was.
> Found early CFL light-bulbs for 1/3rd what HD was charging. Then,
> after going thru their "maze", was dumped at the gardening/return
> section, jes before the exit door. Got to see all the returned junk
> and why it had been returned. Scary!
>
> I quit shopping at Ikea. ;)
>
> nb

Even if their light bulbs were 1/3 what HD was charging? Why not just
go there for the stuff that you would buy - but pay more for - someplace
else?

I buy lots of consumables (vinyl/nitrile gloves, zip-ties, etc.) at Harbor
Freight because they are cheaper there than anywhere else. All it takes
is a little discipline to avoid buying the stuff that sucks.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 8:38 AM

On 1/13/2017 7:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>>
>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>> went.
>>
>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>
> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>


Good thought but at least a few of those fancy fasteners would not go
back together as well the second time as the first.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 9:02 AM

On 1/12/2017 8:26 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:04:32 AM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>> On 2017-01-12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> will there be a trend back to well made furnishings or will the masses
>>>> just not care
>>
>> I figure the later.
>>
>> My ex taught me about antiques.
>>
>> Costly? Yes. Worth it? Yes.
>>
>> Anecdote: Went to the closest Ikea to see what all the hub-bub was.
>> Found early CFL light-bulbs for 1/3rd what HD was charging. Then,
>> after going thru their "maze", was dumped at the gardening/return
>> section, jes before the exit door. Got to see all the returned junk
>> and why it had been returned. Scary!
>>
>> I quit shopping at Ikea. ;)
>>
>> nb
>
> Even if their light bulbs were 1/3 what HD was charging? Why not just
> go there for the stuff that you would buy - but pay more for - someplace
> else?
>
> I buy lots of consumables (vinyl/nitrile gloves, zip-ties, etc.) at Harbor
> Freight because they are cheaper there than anywhere else. All it takes
> is a little discipline to avoid buying the stuff that sucks.
>


Discipline or a sense of smell. If it does not smell right is it not
right. ;~)

Ll

Leon

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 5:08 PM

On 1/12/2017 4:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 10:50:46 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/12/2017 9:24 AM, notbob wrote:
>>> On 2017-01-12, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Even if their light bulbs were 1/3 what HD was charging? Why not just
>>>>> go there for the stuff that you would buy - but pay more for - someplace
>>>>> else?
>>>
>>> Actually, I did. I came back (with a friend) and purchased a hanging
>>> kitchen rack. Again, 1/3rd of what everone else was charging.
>>>
>>> OTOH, I looked at a Captain's bed for my daughter. You know, a single
>>> bed with under bed storage drawers? I looked closely. All
>>> fiberboard! Jes like Levitz! Nevermind. ;)
>>>
>>> nb
>>>
>>
>>
>> I will say this about that type furniture. It is good and lasts a long
>> time as long as you never move it after assembly.
>
> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>
> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
> went.
>
> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>

The stuff does not like to be wiggled. If you live in a trailer park
and move your trailer to a new lovely park, your furniture will not
survive. LOL


JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

15/01/2017 8:54 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >>
> >> >My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
> >> >room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
> >> >
> >> >2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
> >> >packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
> >> >enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
> >> >went.
> >> >
> >> >I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
> >> >pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
> >> >doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
> >> >fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
> >>
> >> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
> >
> >Feel free, but not me.
>
> I had a particleboard (vinyl woodgrain) bookshelf unit that
> I got in 1979. It survived four moves by simply disassembling
> it and reassembling it. It's not rocket science.
>
>
> >
> >Easier transport, no disassembly effort (think about the cardboard back
> >with the 400 tiny nails holding it on), time saved, etc. If you've ever
> >moved a college student out of dorm room at the end of a semester, you know
> >that the last thing you want to do is waste time taking apart a cheap bookcase, packing it all up, carrying the pieces out and in, etc. No
> >thanks! Not for $28.
>
> Mine was purchased for my college apartment. And I was perfectly happy
> to disassemble it and pack it when moving myself out.

I have one downstairs that my mother (a great
aficionado of cheap) bought me. It still holds
up books but it had a lot of plastic trim that
fell off very early and no hinge on it still
functions. I have a few others that are of a
similar nature but a step upmarket that are
holding up fine. One of these days they all get
replaced with built-ins. Of course I've been
saying that for decades and so far nobody has
provided me the necessary round tuit.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 2:53 PM

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>> >My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>> >room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>> >
>> >2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>> >packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>> >enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>> >went.
>> >
>> >I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>> >pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>> >doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>> >fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>>
>> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>
>Feel free, but not me.

I had a particleboard (vinyl woodgrain) bookshelf unit that
I got in 1979. It survived four moves by simply disassembling
it and reassembling it. It's not rocket science.


>
>Easier transport, no disassembly effort (think about the cardboard back
>with the 400 tiny nails holding it on), time saved, etc. If you've ever
>moved a college student out of dorm room at the end of a semester, you know
>that the last thing you want to do is waste time taking apart a cheap bookcase, packing it all up, carrying the pieces out and in, etc. No
>thanks! Not for $28.

Mine was purchased for my college apartment. And I was perfectly happy
to disassemble it and pack it when moving myself out.

EP

Ed Pawlowski

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 11:31 AM

On 1/13/2017 8:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>>
>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>> went.
>>
>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>
> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>

Yeah, sure. You'd have taken a half hour to move something 3 miles and
put it back together again? I'd have left it behind before doing all of
that.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 10:31 AM

On 1/13/2017 8:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>> On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>>>> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>>>>
>>>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>>>> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>>>> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>>>> went.
>>>>
>>>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>>>> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>>>> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>>>> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>>>
>>> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>>
>> Feel free, but not me.
>
> I had a particleboard (vinyl woodgrain) bookshelf unit that
> I got in 1979. It survived four moves by simply disassembling
> it and reassembling it. It's not rocket science.

Yeah but yeah but ;~) Back then it was quality compared to recent stuff.




Ll

Leon

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 10:32 AM

On 1/13/2017 8:56 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 9:39:09 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/13/2017 7:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>>>> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>>>>
>>>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>>>> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>>>> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>>>> went.
>>>>
>>>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>>>> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>>>> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>>>> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>>>
>>> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Good thought but at least a few of those fancy fasteners would not go
>> back together as well the second time as the first.
>
> BTDT
>

ME2

LK

Larry Kraus

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 9:33 PM

On 1/11/2017 3:39 PM, Bill wrote:
> Spalted Walt wrote:
>> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>>
>> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>>
>>
>
> I have a hunch the former style will have a Much longer lifetime. I've
> repaired/maintained a few tables, and I think the new design is (1) Not
> as strong and (2) More difficult to repair. I suspect that the
> "mortise" is the weak spot---partcularly if it's cut in particle board.
> By the way, don't underlook "duct tape" as a possible repair
> medium--assuming no one looks under your tables. PDAMHIKT.
>
>
The linked article
(http://www.core77.com/posts/27726/ikeas-new-tool-less-connectors-and-a-potential-end-to-particle-board-27726)
shows that the design is move away from particle board, using solid wood
frames in a torsion box construction. The "wavy" mortise & tenon would
never hold up in particle board.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 1:43 PM

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:

>My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>
>2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>went.
>
>I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.

I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.

ww

whit3rd

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 12:36 AM

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 12:06:35 PM UTC-8, Spalted Walt wrote:
> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>
> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design

OK, it's a variation on a pocket keyhole that engages a wooden head. The head
is tripled, and cut curvy so after it bottoms, it'l at least start to slide into the
narrow part where it'll hold.

I'd be tempted to brush a little linseed oil into the receiving slot before assembly.
There's some interesting puzzle-box possibilities, after joining a panel you could
slide a second panel into position that blocks the first from loosening.

I could produce such a router bit with a few minutes of grinding, on a straight bit,
and make the dowels by working the router bit against a blank in a lathe.

You could use it, for instance, to mount a skirt to a tabletop.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 6:59 AM

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 9:53:34 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >>
> >> >My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
> >> >room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
> >> >
> >> >2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
> >> >packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
> >> >enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
> >> >went.
> >> >
> >> >I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
> >> >pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
> >> >doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
> >> >fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
> >>
> >> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
> >
> >Feel free, but not me.
>
> I had a particleboard (vinyl woodgrain) bookshelf unit that
> I got in 1979. It survived four moves by simply disassembling
> it and reassembling it. It's not rocket science.

It's also not 1979. I'll bet $ to donuts that even the cheapo
particleboard bookcases were of a higher quality in 1979 than
the $28 units they sell today.

> >
> >Easier transport, no disassembly effort (think about the cardboard back
> >with the 400 tiny nails holding it on), time saved, etc. If you've ever
> >moved a college student out of dorm room at the end of a semester, you know
> >that the last thing you want to do is waste time taking apart a cheap bookcase, packing it all up, carrying the pieces out and in, etc. No
> >thanks! Not for $28.
>
> Mine was purchased for my college apartment. And I was perfectly happy
> to disassemble it and pack it when moving myself out.

I'm so proud of you. ;-)

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 5:16 PM

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 1/13/2017 8:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>> On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>>>>> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>>>>> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>>>>> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>>>>> went.
>>>>>
>>>>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>>>>> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>>>>> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>>>>> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>>>>
>>>> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>>>
>>> Feel free, but not me.
>>
>> I had a particleboard (vinyl woodgrain) bookshelf unit that
>> I got in 1979. It survived four moves by simply disassembling
>> it and reassembling it. It's not rocket science.
>
>Yeah but yeah but ;~) Back then it was quality compared to recent stuff.
>

It was ugly crap held together with cheap screws. I can't imagine that
modern stuff has worse quality.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 2:06 PM

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 10:50:46 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/12/2017 9:24 AM, notbob wrote:
> > On 2017-01-12, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >
> >>> Even if their light bulbs were 1/3 what HD was charging? Why not just
> >>> go there for the stuff that you would buy - but pay more for - someplace
> >>> else?
> >
> > Actually, I did. I came back (with a friend) and purchased a hanging
> > kitchen rack. Again, 1/3rd of what everone else was charging.
> >
> > OTOH, I looked at a Captain's bed for my daughter. You know, a single
> > bed with under bed storage drawers? I looked closely. All
> > fiberboard! Jes like Levitz! Nevermind. ;)
> >
> > nb
> >
>
>
> I will say this about that type furniture. It is good and lasts a long
> time as long as you never move it after assembly.

My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.

2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
went.

I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 6:36 AM

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
> >room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
> >
> >2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
> >packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
> >enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
> >went.
> >
> >I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
> >pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
> >doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
> >fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>
> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.

Feel free, but not me.

Since disassembly requires reassembly, had I know it was going to fall
apart I would have left it in the dorm room and spent the $28 it would
have cost for a new one, all boxed up nice and neat and easy to carry.
Which, BTW, I ended up doing anyway.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/21997602

Easier transport, no disassembly effort (think about the cardboard back
with the 400 tiny nails holding it on), time saved, etc. If you've ever
moved a college student out of dorm room at the end of a semester, you know
that the last thing you want to do is waste time taking apart a cheap bookcase, packing it all up, carrying the pieces out and in, etc. No
thanks! Not for $28.

nn

notbob

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 2:04 PM

On 2017-01-12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

>>will there be a trend back to well made furnishings or will the masses
>>just not care

I figure the later.

My ex taught me about antiques.

Costly? Yes. Worth it? Yes.

Anecdote: Went to the closest Ikea to see what all the hub-bub was.
Found early CFL light-bulbs for 1/3rd what HD was charging. Then,
after going thru their "maze", was dumped at the gardening/return
section, jes before the exit door. Got to see all the returned junk
and why it had been returned. Scary!

I quit shopping at Ikea. ;)

nb

nn

notbob

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 3:24 PM

On 2017-01-12, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>> Even if their light bulbs were 1/3 what HD was charging? Why not just
>> go there for the stuff that you would buy - but pay more for - someplace
>> else?

Actually, I did. I came back (with a friend) and purchased a hanging
kitchen rack. Again, 1/3rd of what everone else was charging.

OTOH, I looked at a Captain's bed for my daughter. You know, a single
bed with under bed storage drawers? I looked closely. All
fiberboard! Jes like Levitz! Nevermind. ;)

nb

nn

notbob

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 5:38 PM

On 2017-01-12, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> I will say this about that type furniture. It is good and lasts a long
> time as long as you never move it after assembly.

True enough.

I hadda huge fiberboard bookcase. You know, the kind with the lead
slug inserts, in which to attach the fasteners. Lasted forever
....until I moved. It disintergrated upon disassembly and I tossed it
in the dumpster.

nb

k

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 9:26 PM

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:43:29 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:28 +0000
>Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>>
>> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>
>cheap crappy usable
>
>choose two and it seems people are happy with cheap and usable
>
>because they keep buying it
>
>
>will there be a trend back to well made furnishings or will the masses
>just not care

I don't much care for IKEA furniture (I have one drawer unit that our
printer sits on) but they're a great source for butcher block slabs.
Put an apron on it and they make a rather nice table. ;-)

BB

Bill

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 3:39 PM

Spalted Walt wrote:
> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>
> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>

I have a hunch the former style will have a Much longer lifetime. I've
repaired/maintained a few tables, and I think the new design is (1) Not
as strong and (2) More difficult to repair. I suspect that the
"mortise" is the weak spot---partcularly if it's cut in particle board.
By the way, don't underlook "duct tape" as a possible repair
medium--assuming no one looks under your tables. PDAMHIKT.

EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 1:43 PM

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:28 +0000
Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>
> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design

cheap crappy usable

choose two and it seems people are happy with cheap and usable

because they keep buying it


will there be a trend back to well made furnishings or will the masses
just not care






BB

Bill

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 6:32 PM

Larry Kraus wrote:
> On 1/11/2017 3:39 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Spalted Walt wrote:
>>> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>>>
>>> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have a hunch the former style will have a Much longer lifetime. I've
>> repaired/maintained a few tables, and I think the new design is (1) Not
>> as strong and (2) More difficult to repair. I suspect that the
>> "mortise" is the weak spot---partcularly if it's cut in particle board.
>> By the way, don't underlook "duct tape" as a possible repair
>> medium--assuming no one looks under your tables. PDAMHIKT.
>>
>>
> The linked article
> (http://www.core77.com/posts/27726/ikeas-new-tool-less-connectors-and-a-potential-end-to-particle-board-27726)
> shows that the design is move away from particle board, using solid
> wood frames in a torsion box construction. The "wavy" mortise & tenon
> would never hold up in particle board.

I'm not sure that most of the parties involved really want it to hold up
for a long time...otherwise, you woodn't need to replace it...

BB

Bill

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 12:33 AM

Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> On 01/11/2017 02:39 PM, Bill wrote:
>> I think the new design is (1) Not as strong and (2) More difficult to repair.
> It's not intended to be. Engineering is about design for an intended purpose.

*Whose* intended purpose (in this case)? ; )


> These tables are intended to be inexpensive to buy and replace, rarely to fix.
> They are not heirlooms. For many people, they're the first piece of new
> "furniture" they buy on their way up the economic food chain.
>
> FWIW, I also buy the occasional tool at HF if I don't need to use it
> in heavy duty or continuous application...

GG

Greg Guarino

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 2:55 PM

On 1/11/2017 4:43 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:28 +0000
> Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>>
>> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>
> cheap crappy usable
>
> choose two and it seems people are happy with cheap and usable
>
> because they keep buying it
>
>
> will there be a trend back to well made furnishings or will the masses
> just not care
>

When our daughter was a small child we bought several items from Ikea.
There were no heirlooms, to be sure, but most of them had a pleasing
"clean lines" style and did the job. Her "high-bed" was an unqualified
success, actually; sturdy enough, with lots of room underneath for
storage and play and inexpensive enough to make sense for the few years
she would use it. The cubbyhole bookcases we bought were chipboard, of
course, but the "beech" veneer had a nice color to it the cubbies held
an awful lot of stuff that needed holding.

A couple of years later, we decided to buy a dressers for our daughter's
room. In the interim, the quality had deteriorated noticeably. For one
thing, the two units must have been from different batches; the stain
didn't match. In the previous incarnation of Ikea, they'd have shipped a
replacement. No longer. The chipboard also had bigger, coarser chips,
and any non-visible surface was left bare. Although I was pretty
experienced at putting flat-pack furniture together, the pieces didn't
fit as well as the earlier stuff.

I think that's a shame, because their earlier, better stuff fulfilled a
need: decent-looking functional furniture at an attractive price. We're
a little more flush these days, have most of the furniture we need, and
I intend to fill in here and there with pieces I build myself. But
plenty of other people could use an affordable alternative.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 11:15 AM

On 1/13/17 10:31 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/13/2017 8:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>> On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 8:43:23 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal
>>> wrote:
>>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book
>>>>> cases for her dorm room. I assembled it and stood it against
>>>>> wall when she first moved in.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm
>>>>> pretty good at packing my trailer to keep the contents safe.
>>>>> God knows I've done it enough times. We loaded everything in,
>>>>> strapped it all down and off we went.
>>>>>
>>>>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took
>>>>> out the pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the
>>>>> dumpster. It sure doesn't take stress much to blow those
>>>>> fasteners right out of the fiber board. A few bumps and it
>>>>> was toast.
>>>>
>>>> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>>>
>>> Feel free, but not me.
>>
>> I had a particleboard (vinyl woodgrain) bookshelf unit that I got
>> in 1979. It survived four moves by simply disassembling it and
>> reassembling it. It's not rocket science.
>
> Yeah but yeah but ;~) Back then it was quality compared to recent
> stuff.
>

I actually do quite a bit of RTA furniture assembly for people in my area.
FWIW, I'm very pleased when I find out it will be an IKEA product I'm
going to assemble because their quality is significantly higher than
other RTA furniture.

Most of the time, the "important" parts of the furniture are actually
solid wood instead of termite vomit. And I'm assured that none of their
hardware is going to snap in half under the weight of my screwdriver.

Sauder, Wayfair, any of the other brands out there are complete shite,
for the most part. I have to go in bringing extra hardware (HD/Lowes
started carrying RTA parts) and have to avoid making sudden movements or
loud noises, lest I spook the pieces and they fall apart under their own
weight. :-)

But I can always count on IKEA for their (relative!) high quality when
it comes to RTA furniture. Believe it or not, IKEA actually makes some
high end stuff for their European markets. From what I hear, they
started doing the boxed kits just for shipping to overseas markets.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 12:52 PM

On 1/13/17 12:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 12:15:47 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> ..snip...
>
>> I actually do quite a bit of RTA furniture assembly for people in my area.
>> FWIW, I'm very pleased when I find out it will be an IKEA product I'm
>> going to assemble because their quality is significantly higher than
>> other RTA furniture.
>>
>
> ...snip...
>
> You would love putting together some of the RTA pieces that I have in my
> house. This 9' x 6' x 3' armoire is RTA:
>
> http://s440.photobucket.com/user/DerbyDad03/media/Slide1_zps048d847e.jpg.html
>
> This is one on the connectors that holds the top on (right hand image). You
> use any type of round pointed object to turn a barrel nut to draw the
> sections together.
>
> http://s440.photobucket.com/user/DerbyDad03/media/Slide2_zps30d5b0d6.jpg.html
>
> The unit knocks down to 10(?) pieces not including the shelves. The biggest
> single pieces are the top and the base. Roughly 9 x 3 x 6". The rest are all
> about the size of one of the doors.
>
> I have a 6' wide glass front book case, a dining room hutch, a curved glass
> china cabinet and a few other pieces from the same manufacturer. They were
> made by a German firm (whose name escapes me right now) back in the early
> 1900's.
>

Yeah, those look pretty stout and definitely a different animal.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

a

ads

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 5:47 PM

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:43:29 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:28 +0000
>Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "We don't need no stinking aprons."
>>
>> http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>
>cheap crappy usable
>
>choose two and it seems people are happy with cheap and usable
>
>because they keep buying it
>
>
>will there be a trend back to well made furnishings or will the masses
>just not care
>
>
>
>
>
>

Need a box for the 3D printer I'm building. Using an $8 IKEA end/side
table as the structure and will add hinged plexiglas sides (for access
& visibility). Basically, I'm making a cube with no bottom.
I get precut and finished pieces that create a (mostly) square frame
that's the correct size - and for less than the lumber and paint would
cost. Durabililty? Unless I drop the table, it should survive well.
The only weight on the table will be the filament spools (about 1kg
each).
Cheap? Yes. Ugly? Probably. OK for sitting on the workbench?
Definitely.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

12/01/2017 8:00 AM

On 1/11/2017 11:33 PM, Bill wrote:
> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>> On 01/11/2017 02:39 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> I think the new design is (1) Not as strong and (2) More difficult to
>>> repair.
>> It's not intended to be. Engineering is about design for an intended
>> purpose.
>
> *Whose* intended purpose (in this case)? ; )

Manufacturing.

a

ads

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

11/01/2017 5:36 PM

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:28 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"We don't need no stinking aprons."
>
>http://www.core77.com/posts/59321/How-Ikeas-New-Joinery-is-Advancing-Their-Design
>

Just don't let your kids stand on the table. I'd expect the load
limit to be appreciably less than the table with aprons and corner
braces...

k

in reply to Spalted Walt on 11/01/2017 8:06 PM

13/01/2017 11:21 PM

On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:38:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/13/2017 7:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> My daughter bought one of those flat-pack WallyWorld book cases for her dorm
>>> room. I assembled it and stood it against wall when she first moved in.
>>>
>>> 2 years later she got an off-campus apartment. Now, I'm pretty good at
>>> packing my trailer to keep the contents safe. God knows I've done it
>>> enough times. We loaded everything in, strapped it all down and off we
>>> went.
>>>
>>> I drove 3 miles to her apartment, opened the trailer, took out the
>>> pieces of the busted up book case and put them by the dumpster. It sure
>>> doesn't take stress much to blow those fasteners right out of the
>>> fiber board. A few bumps and it was toast.
>>
>> I would have disassembled it for transport, myself.
>>
>
>
>Good thought but at least a few of those fancy fasteners would not go
>back together as well the second time as the first.

Or any screw in termite vomit.


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