Biesemeyer fence

Somebody wrote:

>> Because you can't attach feather boards or another reason?

Roy Smith wrote:
>
> Mostly that, but a certain amount of simply the human foible of
> imagining
> that the choice not made was, after all, the better choice.

SFWIW:

Have the Unifence, love it, especially after a modification.

Glued two (2) 8" x Unifence extrusion lenght x 3/4" (13 ply) birch ply
pieces together, then mounted a piece of T-track about 6" above
table, recessed in the ply.

Finally, bolted ply to extrusion with some 1/4-20 S/S bolts after
drilling mounting holes in extrusion.

Now have place to mount feather boards and since the ply assembly is
exactly 1-1/2" thick, can use the Unifence marking scale directly.

YMMV.

Lew

<[email protected]> wrote:

> I understand that and I guess that's the main reason why my logic
> never been challenged in personal experience. I've never had the
> opportunity to test the 'deflection' capabilities of a single side
> fasten down fence. Suppose it will happen sometime and then my table
> saw fence world will be shattered.

The Unifence is secured by a three (3) point clamping consisting of
two (2) points on the front rail and a single point pad pushing down
on the table 12"-5" forward in the clamped position.

The extrusion which is the actual fence is simply along for the ride
when it comes to clamping.

Lew

-MIKE- wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> "Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Why are there no accessory tracks or even tapped holes to add
>>> accessory tracks to the Biesemeyer fence? Even the Biesemeyer
>>> auxilary fence is just a larger fence with no accommodations for
>>> accessories. Many woodworkers build their own Biesemeyer covers with
>>> tracks to accommodate featherboards and other accessories, but I'm
>>> puzzled why there are such elaborate add ons for systems such as the
>>> Bench Dog router but not the Biesemeyer. Just curious. Am I missing
>>> something?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Christopher
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well just for starters, the fence does not fasten down on the back
>> end. Hold downs attached to the fence would lift the fence up in the
>> back when running stock if the hold down was adjusted tight enough to
>> do any good.
>>
>
> That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
> by a feather board.
>
> One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
> there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
> can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
> rear.
>
>

I've had the Jet Deluxe Xacta Fence II, a Biesemeyer clone, on my saw.

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/xactafenceii.html

For the approximate 10 years that I've owned the saw I've used "Board
Buddies" attached to the fence when ripping lumber.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11262&cookietest=1

I've never had the back of the fence lift.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

<[email protected]> wrote:

> Adding a wooden fence also gives one the opportunity to add some
> simple T-nuts opening the door to all sorts of add-ons, jigs and
> hold
> down devices.

Exactly what I documented as having done on my Unifence only with a
T-Track.

Lew

Being a product manager myself (in a totally different industry) I can
imagine that because they having a leading product in the industry
they likely suffer a little from "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and
"how many more will you sell if we spend all the cash on a redesign."
The answer to the question is they probably can't really sell many
more than they already do. They probably already sell 1/2 of the high
end fences in the market. That is a hard number to increase.

Just speculation.


On Oct 10, 12:32=A0pm, "Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why are there no accessory tracks or even tapped holes to add accessory
> tracks to the Biesemeyer fence? =A0Even the Biesemeyer auxilary fence is =
just
> a larger fence with no accommodations for accessories. =A0Many woodworker=
s
> build their own Biesemeyer covers with tracks to accommodate featherboard=
s
> and other accessories, but I'm puzzled why there are such elaborate add o=
ns
> for systems such as the Bench Dog router but not the Biesemeyer. =A0Just
> curious. =A0Am I missing something?
>
> Best,
> Christopher

On Oct 10, 11:06=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > My logic tells me that a fence that fastens down in front only is less
> > solid and outdone by a fence that fastens down in front and back.Still
> > results in argument.
>
> I think it's intuitive to have that though, as I did when I got this saw.
>
> But when I was tweaking up everything, including squaring the fence to
> the table, I tried pushing the end of the fence. I had to really put
> some pressure on it to get it to budge in the least.
>
> I figured, if I'm exerted that much force on the fence during any table
> saw operation, I'm doing something very wrong. =A0 :-)
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Indeed. If one leans into the fence so hard as to deflect a proper T-
fence like a Bies...I think that a Unifence would be much help ether.
I have bought, used Unifences, and Biesemeyers...all fine by me.
Serious beef, and adjustability along with a solid locking
mechanism... neither rocket surgery nor brain science.

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:45:17 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:


>My old saw the two locking points was a PITA and had to be tweaked for
>perfect measurements. Of course, that saw total price was about the same the
>Beis fence.

Sure, the same common sense tells me that a fence with more lock down
points is also more prone to the possibility of additional errors
cropping up should any of those points be incorrect.

When I bought my Excalibur, circa 1993, I wasn't able to get around
much at the time and the Excalibur was the first aftermarket fence I'd
come in contact with that had a number of recommendations, so I bought
one. I'm still using it on the Rockwell Beaver contractor's saw I
bought in 1973. I'll be going to a General cabinet saw and a Bies type
of fence that comes with it when/if I manage to find a suitable
workshop space to rent. Hope that happens sometime, because I've been
looking for more than ten years.

"Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> writes:

> Why are there no accessory tracks or even tapped holes to add accessory
> tracks to the Biesemeyer fence? Even the Biesemeyer auxilary fence is just
> a larger fence with no accommodations for accessories. Many woodworkers
> build their own Biesemeyer covers with tracks to accommodate featherboards
> and other accessories, but I'm puzzled why there are such elaborate add ons
> for systems such as the Bench Dog router but not the Biesemeyer. Just
> curious. Am I missing something?

The ShopFox variant I got with my Jet has plastic boards you can pop
off and on. I replaced mine with a tall wooden fence with a slot, for
featherboards.


You can get extra metal clips that work with the fench. I think it's
cool beans.

On Oct 10, 12:32 pm, "Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why are there no accessory tracks or even tapped holes to add accessory
> tracks to the Biesemeyer fence? Even the Biesemeyer auxilary fence is just
> a larger fence with no accommodations for accessories. Many woodworkers
> build their own Biesemeyer covers with tracks to accommodate featherboards
> and other accessories, but I'm puzzled why there are such elaborate add ons
> for systems such as the Bench Dog router but not the Biesemeyer. Just
> curious. Am I missing something?
>
> Best,
> Christopher

This is your chance to make your own fence accoutrements, yes? Tom

> Being a product manager myself (in a totally different industry) I can
> imagine that because they having a leading product in the industry
> they likely suffer a little from "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

I can certainly understand that, but what about the Biesemeyer auxiliary
fence? The cost is $139 to add a little length and height. What, that's
it? That's all the design engineers could come up with? Another inch or so
on the length and heigth?

Best,
Christopher

"Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why are there no accessory tracks or even tapped holes to add accessory
> tracks to the Biesemeyer fence? Even the Biesemeyer auxilary fence is
> just a larger fence with no accommodations for accessories. Many
> woodworkers build their own Biesemeyer covers with tracks to accommodate
> featherboards and other accessories, but I'm puzzled why there are such
> elaborate add ons for systems such as the Bench Dog router but not the
> Biesemeyer. Just curious. Am I missing something?
>
> Best,
> Christopher
>
>

Well just for starters, the fence does not fasten down on the back end.
Hold downs attached to the fence would lift the fence up in the back when
running stock if the hold down was adjusted tight enough to do any good.

> This is your chance to make your own fence accoutrements, yes? Tom

Quite right. I saw a photo of a three-sided wrap that looked like a winner.

Best,
Christopher

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
Snip

>
> That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
> by a feather board.
>
> One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
> there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
> can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
> rear.


I have been using the clone, Jet Exacta fences, 2 of them, in the last 13-14
years and have never really missed the capability of attaching a hold down
to the fence. I have how ever built a tenon jig that is guided by the
fence, BUT I seldome use it now that I have a Domino.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> My logic tells me that a fence that fastens down in front only is less
> solid and outdone by a fence that fastens down in front and back.Still
> results in argument. Guess, it doesn't matter anymore now since
> General bought out the Excalibur line and shut it down. That's
> business.

Fastening in two places can induce some error. Logic is outdone by sheer
strength. What you are saying is comparable to saying a rowboat with two
lines to the dock is harder to move than a battleship with only one line on
it. The Beisemeyer is rather solid and does not deflect. You put it on the
mark, push the handle, and it is locked accurately in place. Every time.
My old saw the two locking points was a PITA and had to be tweaked for
perfect measurements. Of course, that saw total price was about the same the
Beis fence.

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:36:49 -0700, "Christopher Glaeser"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I can certainly understand that, but what about the Biesemeyer auxiliary
>fence? The cost is $139 to add a little length and height. What, that's
>it? That's all the design engineers could come up with? Another inch or so
>on the length and heigth?

Here's another solution that you can customize quite easily.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17821&filter=table%20saw%20fence

I've some home-made versions of these clamps too.

Mike O.

Leon wrote:
> "Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Why are there no accessory tracks or even tapped holes to add accessory
>> tracks to the Biesemeyer fence? Even the Biesemeyer auxilary fence is
>> just a larger fence with no accommodations for accessories. Many
>> woodworkers build their own Biesemeyer covers with tracks to accommodate
>> featherboards and other accessories, but I'm puzzled why there are such
>> elaborate add ons for systems such as the Bench Dog router but not the
>> Biesemeyer. Just curious. Am I missing something?
>>
>> Best,
>> Christopher
>>
>>
>
> Well just for starters, the fence does not fasten down on the back end.
> Hold downs attached to the fence would lift the fence up in the back when
> running stock if the hold down was adjusted tight enough to do any good.
>
>

That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
by a feather board.

One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
rear.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Roy Smith wrote:
>>> That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
>>> by a feather board.
>>>
>>> One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
>>> there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
>>> can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
>>> rear.
>> The unifence does the same thing ... but you could always clamp it if
>> necessary.
>>
>> But, like you say, I've have to move the bench that has always resided
>> behind it.
>
> When I bought my saw a few years ago, I agonized over which fence to get.
> Eventually, I went with the Unifence and have always regretted it. I
> strongly suspect, however, had I gone with the Bies, I would have equally
> regretted it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence,
> so to speak.


Why, Roy?
Because you can't attach feather boards or another reason?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Roy Smith wrote:
>>>>> That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
>>>>> by a feather board.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
>>>>> there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
>>>>> can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
>>>>> rear.
>>>> The unifence does the same thing ... but you could always clamp it if
>>>> necessary.
>>>>
>>>> But, like you say, I've have to move the bench that has always resided
>>>> behind it.
>>> When I bought my saw a few years ago, I agonized over which fence to get.
>>> Eventually, I went with the Unifence and have always regretted it. I
>>> strongly suspect, however, had I gone with the Bies, I would have equally
>>> regretted it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence,
>>> so to speak.
>>
>> Why, Roy?
>> Because you can't attach feather boards or another reason?
>
> Mostly that, but a certain amount of simply the human foible of imagining
> that the choice not made was, after all, the better choice.

I got the Unifence on my Unisaw and never regretted it at all (my buddy
and my Dad both have Biesemeyer's on theirs, and I like them fine as
well, but still prefer the Unifence). There is an aftermarket fence
that attaches to the Unifence carriage that offers a rectangular shaped
aluminum extrusion with the white slick plastic face and slots to which
jigs can be attached. I have one, but I rarely use it. The stock
Unifence is lighter, which I appreciate whenever I have to remove the
fence entirely (which seems quite often for me), and it's way lighter
than a Biesemeyer.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Swingman wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>
>
>> well, but still prefer the Unifence). There is an aftermarket fence
>> that attaches to the Unifence carriage that offers a rectangular
>> shaped aluminum extrusion with the white slick plastic face and slots
>> to which jigs can be attached.
>
> I have one, and it basically stays on the saw, you can see it clearly in
> this shot:
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Spice0.JPG

Yep, that's the one I have. It's really a very nice accessory, but for
some reason I just don't ever find myself installing it on the saw. I
should go out and do that right now; maybe I'll actually start getting
used to it!

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

>>>> But, like you say, I've have to move the bench that has always resided
>>>> behind it.
>>> When I bought my saw a few years ago, I agonized over which fence to get.
>>> Eventually, I went with the Unifence and have always regretted it. I
>>> strongly suspect, however, had I gone with the Bies, I would have equally
>>> regretted it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence,
>>> so to speak.
>>
>> Why, Roy?
>> Because you can't attach feather boards or another reason?
>
> Mostly that, but a certain amount of simply the human foible of imagining
> that the choice not made was, after all, the better choice.

Oh, I get it. You're saying you would've regretted the unknown.

I have the Bies and I played around with the Uni at Woodcraft.
They seem like step siblings to me, different looks, but similar DNA,
you know?

I tell you this, I don't regret not having that POS Ryobi fence anymore.
:-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[email protected] wrote:
> My logic tells me that a fence that fastens down in front only is less
> solid and outdone by a fence that fastens down in front and back.Still
> results in argument.

I think it's intuitive to have that though, as I did when I got this saw.

But when I was tweaking up everything, including squaring the fence to
the table, I tried pushing the end of the fence. I had to really put
some pressure on it to get it to budge in the least.

I figured, if I'm exerted that much force on the fence during any table
saw operation, I'm doing something very wrong. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Nova wrote:
>> That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure
>> applied
>> by a feather board.
>>
>> One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
>> there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
>> can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
>> rear.
>>
>>
>
> I've had the Jet Deluxe Xacta Fence II, a Biesemeyer clone, on my saw.
>
> http://www.southern-tool.com/store/xactafenceii.html
>
> For the approximate 10 years that I've owned the saw I've used "Board
> Buddies" attached to the fence when ripping lumber.
>
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11262&cookietest=1
>
> I've never had the back of the fence lift.
>

I was thinking about that last night, when I posted about there being no
sideways deflection.

I didn't think to check about uplift, so I went out and lifted it. While I
*can* lift it, it's pretty heavy and I think the shear weight of that
mofo is plenty enough to use feather boards.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:16:04 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>Mostly that, but a certain amount of simply the human foible of imagining
>that the choice not made was, after all, the better choice.

Never had that regret problem with my tablesaw fence and it is neither
a Biesemeyer nor Unifence. I've got an Excalibur fence that fastens
down both sides. For some inexplicable reason it's shunned by a large
amount of people.

My logic tells me that a fence that fastens down in front only is less
solid and outdone by a fence that fastens down in front and back.Still
results in argument. Guess, it doesn't matter anymore now since
General bought out the Excalibur line and shut it down. That's
business.

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:06:35 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>But when I was tweaking up everything, including squaring the fence to
>the table, I tried pushing the end of the fence. I had to really put
>some pressure on it to get it to budge in the least.

I understand that and I guess that's the main reason why my logic
never been challenged in personal experience. I've never had the
opportunity to test the 'deflection' capabilities of a single side
fasten down fence. Suppose it will happen sometime and then my table
saw fence world will be shattered. :)

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:32:15 -0700, "Christopher Glaeser"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Why are there no accessory tracks or even tapped holes to add accessory
>tracks to the Biesemeyer fence? Even the Biesemeyer auxilary fence is just
>a larger fence with no accommodations for accessories. Many woodworkers
>build their own Biesemeyer covers with tracks to accommodate featherboards
>and other accessories, but I'm puzzled why there are such elaborate add ons
>for systems such as the Bench Dog router but not the Biesemeyer. Just
>curious. Am I missing something?
>
>Best,
>Christopher
>


I have numerous shop-built accessories for my Bies fence. It is a
popular fence so there are articles on how to build them for a
fraction of the cost.

Steve Turner wrote:


> well, but still prefer the Unifence). There is an aftermarket fence
> that attaches to the Unifence carriage that offers a rectangular shaped
> aluminum extrusion with the white slick plastic face and slots to which
> jigs can be attached.

I have one, and it basically stays on the saw, you can see it clearly in
this shot:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Spice0.JPG

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:09:54 -0400, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]>
wrote:

>The ShopFox variant I got with my Jet has plastic boards you can pop
>off and on. I replaced mine with a tall wooden fence with a slot, for
>featherboards.

Adding a wooden fence also gives one the opportunity to add some
simple T-nuts opening the door to all sorts of add-ons, jigs and hold
down devices.

In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

> -MIKE- wrote:
>
> > That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
> > by a feather board.
> >
> > One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
> > there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
> > can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
> > rear.
>
> The unifence does the same thing ... but you could always clamp it if
> necessary.
>
> But, like you say, I've have to move the bench that has always resided
> behind it.

When I bought my saw a few years ago, I agonized over which fence to get.
Eventually, I went with the Unifence and have always regretted it. I
strongly suspect, however, had I gone with the Bies, I would have equally
regretted it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence,
so to speak.

In article <[email protected]>,
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> >>> That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
> >>> by a feather board.
> >>>
> >>> One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
> >>> there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
> >>> can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
> >>> rear.
> >> The unifence does the same thing ... but you could always clamp it if
> >> necessary.
> >>
> >> But, like you say, I've have to move the bench that has always resided
> >> behind it.
> >
> > When I bought my saw a few years ago, I agonized over which fence to get.
> > Eventually, I went with the Unifence and have always regretted it. I
> > strongly suspect, however, had I gone with the Bies, I would have equally
> > regretted it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence,
> > so to speak.
>
>
> Why, Roy?
> Because you can't attach feather boards or another reason?

Mostly that, but a certain amount of simply the human foible of imagining
that the choice not made was, after all, the better choice.

-MIKE- wrote:

> That's true. It would take very little lift to negate any pressure applied
> by a feather board.
>
> One of the first things I noticed about my new-to-me Biesemeyer fence is
> there is nothing clamping the back end. One benefit I see is that you
> can add a table to the back without working around any hardware at the
> rear.

The unifence does the same thing ... but you could always clamp it if
necessary.

But, like you say, I've have to move the bench that has always resided
behind it.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)