Since there's been so much talk of electricity and things electric lately,
coupled with the fact that we have more than a couple electricians who also
hang out here as woodworkers, I'd like to throw a question on the floor.
I was asked about an unusual configuration this morning. A friend wants to
hit the side of a garage with a 200A standard residential service. Coming
out of the meter channel, he would like to branch off to two separate 200A
locations - a 200A service panel in the house (some distance away - not sure
how far), and a 200A service panel in the garage itself. Presumably, if
this is even possible, it would require a 200A disconnect after the meter
channel and before both of the service panels.
I've never encountered a request like this before, so I'm not sure if it's
even possible. If it were anything else (lesser ratings), I'd suggest
hitting the garage in the normal way and feeding the house off of the
garage. What I'm uncertain of is if you can feed the house with a 200A
breaker in the garage panel, since the total service entrance is only 200A.
Hell - I'm uncertain if 200A breakers are even available for a standard box.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>Since there's been so much talk of electricity and things electric lately,
>coupled with the fact that we have more than a couple electricians who also
>hang out here as woodworkers, I'd like to throw a question on the floor.
>
>I was asked about an unusual configuration this morning. A friend wants to
>hit the side of a garage with a 200A standard residential service. Coming
>out of the meter channel, he would like to branch off to two separate 200A
>locations - a 200A service panel in the house (some distance away - not sure
>how far), and a 200A service panel in the garage itself. Presumably, if
>this is even possible, it would require a 200A disconnect after the meter
>channel and before both of the service panels.
>
>I've never encountered a request like this before, so I'm not sure if it's
>even possible. If it were anything else (lesser ratings), I'd suggest
>hitting the garage in the normal way and feeding the house off of the
>garage. What I'm uncertain of is if you can feed the house with a 200A
>breaker in the garage panel, since the total service entrance is only 200A.
>Hell - I'm uncertain if 200A breakers are even available for a standard box.
Echoing the other advice -- run _whatever_ you propose by the local inspectors
*first*.
THAT said, There _is_ a relatively straightforward way to do this.
make the 'service drop' 250A, not 200.
Immediately below the meter, put in a *FUSED* disconnect switch. With
something 'larger than 200 A', and 'less-than-or-equal to 250 A' for the
fuses.
*NOW*, both the panel in the garage, and the panel in the house are 'sub-
panels'. they do -not- have to have a 'main breaker', to be code-compliant,
but I _prefer_ to have one, nonetheless. Code requirements are that such
if you have protective devices on *both* ends of a wire, the downstream
'interrupter' be smaller in capacity than the one on the upstream end of the
wire. (That's the reason for the 250 A service drop, you can fuse it
appropriately, and use the 'standard' 200 A 'main breaker' in the 'sub panel'.
It -may- be necessary to put a junction box "below" the disconnect, where
you splice the two runs from the two breaker panels, and then run a single
wire up to the disconnect. Modern code _is_ 'fussy' about any splices
inside the interrupter enclosure itself. *OR* having two wires on the
terminal.
This kind of approach *should* be code-compliant, wherever you are, But
_check_, to make sure.
You'll need to up the feed wire size by one gauge, to accommodate the 250A
service, vs 200 A. Both from the meter to the disconnect, and from the
disconnect to each breaker panel.
In copper, #3 is sufficient for 100A service, so 200A service would be ok
on #0. 250A should only need #2/0, it seems to me. Maybe 3/0 if you're
dealing with 'long runs'. Of course, if it is AL feedwire, the wire-size
requirements do go up a couple of gauges.
In article <[email protected]>, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks Doug. I've never seen the lug kits before, so that's new to me.
DAGS on "subfeed lug kit".
>There's no problem in getting the right size conductor put to use - except
>for the nasty of trying to bend 0000 wire in a panel.
Well, if you go copper instead of aluminum, you can go down to 3/0... :-)
>Then there's the
>question of getting the same wire into the neutral and ground buss. Most
>don't come with sizes to accommodate another 0000 besides the entrance
>cable... at least to the best of my knowledge. I'm not liking this request.
I feel your pain.
>Maybe I should have slept later this morning and missed this phone call.
Yep.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Mike
Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Since there's been so much talk of electricity and things electric
lately,
> >coupled with the fact that we have more than a couple electricians who
also
> >hang out here as woodworkers, I'd like to throw a question on the floor.
> >
> >I was asked about an unusual configuration this morning. A friend wants
to
> >hit the side of a garage with a 200A standard residential service.
Coming
> >out of the meter channel, he would like to branch off to two separate
200A
> >locations - a 200A service panel in the house (some distance away - not
sure
> >how far), and a 200A service panel in the garage itself. Presumably, if
> >this is even possible, it would require a 200A disconnect after the meter
> >channel and before both of the service panels.
>
> I think I'd run that past the local inspection authority...
> >
> >I've never encountered a request like this before, so I'm not sure if
it's
> >even possible. If it were anything else (lesser ratings), I'd suggest
> >hitting the garage in the normal way and feeding the house off of the
> >garage. What I'm uncertain of is if you can feed the house with a 200A
> >breaker in the garage panel, since the total service entrance is only
200A.
>
> I like your way better. There's no problem, Code-wise, with feeding the
house
> through a 200A breaker (if it's available), as long as the wires are rated
for
> 200A.
>
> >Hell - I'm uncertain if 200A breakers are even available for a standard
box.
>
> Might not be, except as main breakers. A 200A lug kit might work, though:
it
> fits in the same space as a double-pole breaker, but just provides
take-off
> lugs. The overcurrent protection comes from the main breaker, so the
> conductors would have to be rated for an ampacity at least that of the
main.
>
Thanks Doug. I've never seen the lug kits before, so that's new to me.
There's no problem in getting the right size conductor put to use - except
for the nasty of trying to bend 0000 wire in a panel. Then there's the
question of getting the same wire into the neutral and ground buss. Most
don't come with sizes to accommodate another 0000 besides the entrance
cable... at least to the best of my knowledge. I'm not liking this request.
Maybe I should have slept later this morning and missed this phone call.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Since there's been so much talk of electricity and things electric
lately,
> > coupled with the fact that we have more than a couple electricians who
> also
> > hang out here as woodworkers, I'd like to throw a question on the floor.
> >
> > I was asked about an unusual configuration this morning. A friend wants
> to
> > hit the side of a garage with a 200A standard residential service.
Coming
> > out of the meter channel, he would like to branch off to two separate
200A
> > locations - a 200A service panel in the house (some distance away - not
> sure
> > how far), and a 200A service panel in the garage itself. Presumably, if
> > this is even possible, it would require a 200A disconnect after the
meter
> > channel and before both of the service panels.
> >
> > I've never encountered a request like this before, so I'm not sure if
it's
> > even possible. If it were anything else (lesser ratings), I'd suggest
> > hitting the garage in the normal way and feeding the house off of the
> > garage. What I'm uncertain of is if you can feed the house with a 200A
> > breaker in the garage panel, since the total service entrance is only
> 200A.
> > Hell - I'm uncertain if 200A breakers are even available for a standard
> box.
>
> I'll just throw one thing on top of Doug's comments. As he said, you want
> to run this by the local inspector. In my little municipality, you cannot
> run service directly to a detached garage. You have to drop it to the
> house, then feed the garage from there. YMMV.
>
> todd
>
>
'Preciate the comment Todd. Here, it's not a problem. It's done commonly.
In fact, there are no local codes here - everything defaults to NEC.
Largely, that's a blessing.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Since there's been so much talk of electricity and things electric lately,
> coupled with the fact that we have more than a couple electricians who
also
> hang out here as woodworkers, I'd like to throw a question on the floor.
>
> I was asked about an unusual configuration this morning. A friend wants
to
> hit the side of a garage with a 200A standard residential service. Coming
> out of the meter channel, he would like to branch off to two separate 200A
> locations - a 200A service panel in the house (some distance away - not
sure
> how far), and a 200A service panel in the garage itself. Presumably, if
> this is even possible, it would require a 200A disconnect after the meter
> channel and before both of the service panels.
>
> I've never encountered a request like this before, so I'm not sure if it's
> even possible. If it were anything else (lesser ratings), I'd suggest
> hitting the garage in the normal way and feeding the house off of the
> garage. What I'm uncertain of is if you can feed the house with a 200A
> breaker in the garage panel, since the total service entrance is only
200A.
> Hell - I'm uncertain if 200A breakers are even available for a standard
box.
I'll just throw one thing on top of Doug's comments. As he said, you want
to run this by the local inspector. In my little municipality, you cannot
run service directly to a detached garage. You have to drop it to the
house, then feed the garage from there. YMMV.
todd
In article <[email protected]>, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Since there's been so much talk of electricity and things electric lately,
>coupled with the fact that we have more than a couple electricians who also
>hang out here as woodworkers, I'd like to throw a question on the floor.
>
>I was asked about an unusual configuration this morning. A friend wants to
>hit the side of a garage with a 200A standard residential service. Coming
>out of the meter channel, he would like to branch off to two separate 200A
>locations - a 200A service panel in the house (some distance away - not sure
>how far), and a 200A service panel in the garage itself. Presumably, if
>this is even possible, it would require a 200A disconnect after the meter
>channel and before both of the service panels.
I think I'd run that past the local inspection authority...
>
>I've never encountered a request like this before, so I'm not sure if it's
>even possible. If it were anything else (lesser ratings), I'd suggest
>hitting the garage in the normal way and feeding the house off of the
>garage. What I'm uncertain of is if you can feed the house with a 200A
>breaker in the garage panel, since the total service entrance is only 200A.
I like your way better. There's no problem, Code-wise, with feeding the house
through a 200A breaker (if it's available), as long as the wires are rated for
200A.
>Hell - I'm uncertain if 200A breakers are even available for a standard box.
Might not be, except as main breakers. A 200A lug kit might work, though: it
fits in the same space as a double-pole breaker, but just provides take-off
lugs. The overcurrent protection comes from the main breaker, so the
conductors would have to be rated for an ampacity at least that of the main.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
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