In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article
><[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
>
>Incorrect.
IS CORRECT, _IN_THE_ORIGINAL_CONTEXT_ -- "fittings", not "Pipe"
>
>>O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
>
>Incorrect.
IS CORRECT, _IN_THE_ORIGINAL_CONTEXT_ -- "fittings", not "Pipe"
>Pipe is specified by OD; the ID is determined by the nominal OD and the wall
>thickness.
Yes, _Pipe_ is specified by OD. ID varies.
*FITTINGS* -- the 'stuff' under discussion -- which pipe goes into, *ARE*
sized by the I.D. They -have- to be, to ensure a proper fit with the
'same size name' pipe (OD. speirfication) The OD of such fittings is
*NOT* critical -- it doesn't have to match up to anything else -- and,
therefore *CAN*BE* 'whatever the manufacturer d*mn well pleases"
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>Pipe is specified by OD; the ID is determined by the nominal OD and
>the wall
>thickness.
--------------------------------
Threaded pipe is definitely specified by OD and wall thickness which
in turn specs the ID.
The thread is also determined by the pipe OD.
(Remember schedule 10, 40, 80, 160, etc)
Soldered pipe such as residential water pipe is a whole different
kettle of fish.
Lew
I first wrote:
>>Threaded pipe is definitely specified by OD and wall thickness which
>in turn specs the ID.
>
>>The thread is also determined by the pipe OD.
>>
>>(Remember schedule 10, 40, 80, 160, etc)
>>
>>Soldered pipe such as residential water pipe is a whole different
>>kettle of fish.
-------------------------
"Doug Miller" responded:
> Well, yes and no.... the OD of copper pipe is the same regardless of
> whether
> it's type M, L, or whatever -- but 3/4" copper pipe is a
> considerably
> diffferent size from 3/4" steel pipe is a different size from from
> 3/4" PVC
> pipe is a considerably different size from 3/4" CPVC pipe is pretty
> near the
> same size as 3/4" copper... Confused yet?
-------------------------
Extraneous bullshit intended to confuse the issue.
Lew
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 23:03:12 -0500, Gordon Shumway
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:40:58 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>>
>>>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
>>
>>Incorrect.
>>
>>>O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
>>
>>Incorrect.
>>
>>Pipe is specified by OD; the ID is determined by the nominal OD and the wall
>>thickness.
>>
>>Think about it: if OD were "whatever the manufacturer feels like" you wouldn't
>>be able to use Manufacturer A's fittings with Manufacturer B's pipes. It's
>>precisely to ensure such interchangeability of pipes and fittings across
>>brands that the sizes are specified by OD, not by ID.
>
>You are wrong and I am man enough to admit it. Hoses are measured by
>I.D. Tubing is measured by O.D.
>
>For example with copper. We have various "Types," L, M, N and there
>may be others. For a given size they are all the same O.D. The
>different wall thickness will yield a different I.D. but they will all
>use the same fittings because their O.D.'s are the same.
Doug,
Never mind what I just said. I had a massive brain fart and have now
recovered. You said what I said after I had too many beers.
On Jun 25, 3:59=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. =A0Looks like
> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. =A0
The drill has to match the exterior dimension of the union? That
dimension is NOT CONTROLLED, it can be different from one
to the next.
One I have handy measures 18.6 mm, a little under 47/64 inch...
In article <[email protected]>,
J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 6/25/2010 8:43 PM, dpb wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
>>> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. Looks like
>>> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. Anybody know
>>> offhand which one is right?
>>
>> Will depend on whether it's M or L. Can't just is mic it???
>
>And that tells me that it's a tight 11/16, pretty close to right on
>18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. The question is which one makes a hole
>that it actually fits. The nominal diameter of the bit and the diameter
>of the hole are not the same.
Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:40:58 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
>
>Incorrect.
>
>>O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
>
>Incorrect.
>
>Pipe is specified by OD; the ID is determined by the nominal OD and the wall
>thickness.
>
>Think about it: if OD were "whatever the manufacturer feels like" you wouldn't
>be able to use Manufacturer A's fittings with Manufacturer B's pipes. It's
>precisely to ensure such interchangeability of pipes and fittings across
>brands that the sizes are specified by OD, not by ID.
You are wrong and I am man enough to admit it. Hoses are measured by
I.D. Tubing is measured by O.D.
For example with copper. We have various "Types," L, M, N and there
may be others. For a given size they are all the same O.D. The
different wall thickness will yield a different I.D. but they will all
use the same fittings because their O.D.'s are the same.
J. Clarke wrote:
> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. Looks like
> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. Anybody know
> offhand which one is right?
Will depend on whether it's M or L. Can't just is mic it???
--
On 6/25/2010 8:43 PM, dpb wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
>> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. Looks like
>> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. Anybody know
>> offhand which one is right?
>
> Will depend on whether it's M or L. Can't just is mic it???
And that tells me that it's a tight 11/16, pretty close to right on
18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. The question is which one makes a hole
that it actually fits. The nominal diameter of the bit and the diameter
of the hole are not the same.
And I think it's an M--it's whatever Home Despot sells anyway.
And it's going into MDF, not precisely bored steel.
I'm not really looking for somebody to compare measurements, I'm hoping
that someone else who has had the same idea has found out from
experience which bit works.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RE: Subject
>
> Time for some test holes in a scrap piece of MDF.
>
> Lew
>
>
WHAT????
This subject hasn't been beaten to death and we haven't reached
consesus yet. How dare you inject such a simple and obvious
solution this early in the game?
Art
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
Incorrect.
>O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
Incorrect.
Pipe is specified by OD; the ID is determined by the nominal OD and the wall
thickness.
Think about it: if OD were "whatever the manufacturer feels like" you wouldn't
be able to use Manufacturer A's fittings with Manufacturer B's pipes. It's
precisely to ensure such interchangeability of pipes and fittings across
brands that the sizes are specified by OD, not by ID.
In article <[email protected]>, Upscale <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:40:58 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>Think about it: if OD were "whatever the manufacturer feels like" you wouldn't
>
>>be able to use Manufacturer A's fittings with Manufacturer B's pipes. It's
>>precisely to ensure such interchangeability of pipes and fittings across
>>brands that the sizes are specified by OD, not by ID.
>
>Would that not necessitate that ID also needs to be specified to the
>fitting of one manufacturer will cover and fit the OD of another
>brand? Sounds like it works both ways.
Short version:
The specs are for the OD of the pipe. Fittings are sized to match the pipe.
Long version:
Pipe sizes are specified by nominal diameter. Pipes of any given nominal
diameter in a particular material always have the same actual outside
diameter, although the inside diameter varies depending on the service
schedule. For example, Schedule 80 pipe is heavier-duty than Schedule 40 --
but 2" Sch 80 and 2" Sch 40 have the same OD. Sch 80 has a smaller ID because
it has thicker walls. The material matters too: 3/4" PVC, 3/4" steel, and 3/4"
copper pipes have distinctly different diameters.
Pipe fittings are specified also by nominal diameter. Female fittings of any
given nominal diameter in a particular material always have the same actual
*inside* diameter, because they need to fit on pipes with a specific *outside*
diameter. Male fittings of any given nominal diameter always have the same OD
as the corresponding pipe in the same material.
Threaded fittings of a particular nominal diameter always have exactly the
same actual diameter of the threaded portion, regardless of material.
In article <[email protected]>, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:40:58 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>>
>>>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
>>
>>Incorrect.
>>
>>>O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
>>
>>Incorrect.
>>
>>Pipe is specified by OD; the ID is determined by the nominal OD and the wall
>>thickness.
>>
>>Think about it: if OD were "whatever the manufacturer feels like" you wouldn't
>>be able to use Manufacturer A's fittings with Manufacturer B's pipes. It's
>>precisely to ensure such interchangeability of pipes and fittings across
>>brands that the sizes are specified by OD, not by ID.
>
>You are wrong and I am man enough to admit it. Hoses are measured by
>I.D. Tubing is measured by O.D.
Nobody's talking about either hoses or tubing. We're talking about pipes.
>
>For example with copper. We have various "Types," L, M, N and there
>may be others. For a given size they are all the same O.D. The
>different wall thickness will yield a different I.D. but they will all
>use the same fittings because their O.D.'s are the same.
Which is exactly what I said: the OD is the same, and the ID varies depending
on the wall thickness as determined by the pipe schedule.
In article <[email protected]>, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Doug,
>
>Never mind what I just said. I had a massive brain fart and have now
>recovered. You said what I said after I had too many beers.
Don't worry about it, Gordon -- been there and done that too many times myself
to get upset over someone else doing the same thing. I even use the same term
for it.
In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>>Pipe is specified by OD; the ID is determined by the nominal OD and
>>the wall
>>thickness.
>--------------------------------
>Threaded pipe is definitely specified by OD and wall thickness which
>in turn specs the ID.
>
>The thread is also determined by the pipe OD.
>
>(Remember schedule 10, 40, 80, 160, etc)
>
>Soldered pipe such as residential water pipe is a whole different
>kettle of fish.
Well, yes and no.... the OD of copper pipe is the same regardless of whether
it's type M, L, or whatever -- but 3/4" copper pipe is a considerably
diffferent size from 3/4" steel pipe is a different size from from 3/4" PVC
pipe is a considerably different size from 3/4" CPVC pipe is pretty near the
same size as 3/4" copper... Confused yet? :-)
On 6/25/2010 11:25 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:14:02 -0700, "Artemus"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Lew Hodgett"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> RE: Subject
>>>
>>> Time for some test holes in a scrap piece of MDF.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>
>> WHAT????
>> This subject hasn't been beaten to death and we haven't reached
>> consesus yet. How dare you inject such a simple and obvious
>> solution this early in the game?
>> Art
>>
> Wait just a minute. Nobody has even determined if it is a coupling
> with a stop or without a stop. That would make a big difference if he
> was going to use it as a bearing. If it has a stop he's going to have
> to go back to the BORG and buy another one. That could be a
> completely different diameter. Then what??
Nope, it had a stop. It doesn't anymore.
In article <[email protected]>,
Robert Bonomi <[email protected]> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
>
>O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
That may be true in the case of couplings or fittings that pipe screws
_into_ but the OD of the pipe itself is controlled by the spec, otherwise
pipe and fittings from different sources would not be interchangeable.
And unlike pipe, tubing is sized by OD.
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>In article
>><[email protected]>,
>>[email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>>
>>>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
>>
>>Incorrect.
>
>IS CORRECT, _IN_THE_ORIGINAL_CONTEXT_ -- "fittings", not "Pipe"
Incorrect IN ALL CONTEXTS because the statement is overly general. "Plumbing
stuff" includes both pipe and fittings. Had you said "Plumbing fittings are
specced by inside diameter" I would not have disagreed.
J. Clarke wrote:
> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. Looks like
> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. Anybody know
> offhand which one is right?
If you epoxy it in, use the 23/32 or 3/4". If you are press fitting it,
use the 11/16. If the press is too tight, perhaps freezing the coupling
to shrink it a bit first would help.
Out of curiosity, what are you using it for? I use them for file and
chisel handles I turn, they look really nice all shined up and
varnished, even after 30 years of hard use:
http://jbstein.com/Flick/Handle.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/Handle2.jpg
Also, I measured an old 1/2 fitting with my new 6" HF digital caliper
and also got 23/32. The caliber is on sale 7/2 to 7/5 at HF fo $15. I
of course paid list on an impulse buy.
--
Jack
The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Money!
http://jbstein.com
On 6/25/2010 6:59 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. Looks like
> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. Anybody know
> offhand which one is right?
Well, for anyone who cares, I found that the right size bit is an Irwin
Model 44801 <evil grin>.
"Larry W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Robert Bonomi <[email protected]> wrote:
> <...snipped...>
>>Plumbing stuff is specced by inside diameter.
>>
>>O.D. is whatever the manufacturer feels like.
>
> That may be true in the case of couplings or fittings that pipe screws
> _into_ but the OD of the pipe itself is controlled by the spec, otherwise
> pipe and fittings from different sources would not be interchangeable.
> And unlike pipe, tubing is sized by OD.
> --
So I will try to clarify the issue or confuse people even more. ;oP I can
tell you this stuff can be confusing. An unthreaded copper pipe is measure
not by the inside diameter because of the schedule and not by the outside
diameter either. If you go buy a 3/8" unthreaded pipe it will have an OD of
1/2".
A 1/2" pipe will measure 5/8 OD. The schedule will change the thickness
from the inside diameter. An unthreaded copper fitting is measured by the
ID and a 1/2 " copper pipe fitting (tee, coupler) will have a 5/8" inside
diameter. For other material like PVC (I never measured them) or iron pipes
(never used them) the measurement will be different from copper. Because I
built a still I had to measure the copper pipes and fitting and at some
point I was a bit lost.
Then for threaded fitting the measurement are different and since I never
used them I find it a bit confusing if I had to order some. The OPoster has
a fitting which I am not sure exactly because an union has 3 parts so if it
is untreaded and the inside diameter is 1/2" it is a 3/8" fitting to fit a
3/8" pipe measuring 1/2" OD (the pipe). So the hole if a standard fitting
meaning (coupler) will be 1/2" +/- with the tolerance which I do not know.
This will fit a 3/8" pipe which will measure 1/2" OD.
About the confusion I had at some point was the copper tubing (coil) which
are measured O.D. Though I looked at McMaster they seem to use the same
convention than for the pipe I can swear they did not in the past. I imagine
the confusion when ordering online.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#copper-pipe/=7ppbkr
Below they use the proper convention for copper pipe and copper tubing.
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/coppertubing.html
VD
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
>> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. Looks like
>> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. Anybody know
>> offhand which one is right?
>
> Will depend on whether it's M or L. Can't just is mic it???
>
I made a reply sooner about pipe size to clarify thing but I did not read
your post correctly. The inside diameter of your union is not 1/2" like I
though so it is a real 1/2" fitting measuring 5/8 inside. Since I saw the
tool you bought I know now what you want to do and I do not know the OD but
it will be obviously more than 5/8". I should have noticed when you talked
about 11/16. Sorry I just read too fast though my post on copper fitting
stand.
VD
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
"VirtualDen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> Got the bright idea of using a 1/2" copper pipe union as a bushing and
>>> then realized that I don't have a drill bit the right size. Looks like
>>> it's a tight 11/16, an 18mm, or a slightly loose 23/32. Anybody know
>>> offhand which one is right?
>>
>> Will depend on whether it's M or L. Can't just is mic it???
>>
>
> I made a reply sooner about pipe size to clarify thing but I did not read
> your post correctly. The inside diameter of your union is not 1/2" like I
> though so it is a real 1/2" fitting measuring 5/8 inside. Since I saw the
> tool you bought I know now what you want to do and I do not know the OD
> but it will be obviously more than 5/8". I should have noticed when you
> talked about 11/16. Sorry I just read too fast though my post on copper
> fitting stand.
>
> VD
Oops this post is supposed to be a reply to Clarke.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:14:02 -0700, "Artemus" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> RE: Subject
>>
>> Time for some test holes in a scrap piece of MDF.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
>WHAT????
>This subject hasn't been beaten to death and we haven't reached
>consesus yet. How dare you inject such a simple and obvious
>solution this early in the game?
>Art
>
Wait just a minute. Nobody has even determined if it is a coupling
with a stop or without a stop. That would make a big difference if he
was going to use it as a bearing. If it has a stop he's going to have
to go back to the BORG and buy another one. That could be a
completely different diameter. Then what??
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:40:58 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>Think about it: if OD were "whatever the manufacturer feels like" you wouldn't
>be able to use Manufacturer A's fittings with Manufacturer B's pipes. It's
>precisely to ensure such interchangeability of pipes and fittings across
>brands that the sizes are specified by OD, not by ID.
Would that not necessitate that ID also needs to be specified to the
fitting of one manufacturer will cover and fit the OD of another
brand? Sounds like it works both ways.