I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
are unavoidable given the layout.
I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
But, this would be costly.
Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
Thoughts would be appreciated.
mh
Hey MH,
Are you sure you can't replace the 90's with sequential 45's? On my
initial install I had three 90's too, but after using it for a few
weeks and "studying" the layout I eventualy came up with replacing all
but one with sequential 45's. I'm using a 1&1/2 hp system too, 4 inch
plastic pipe and 8 separate blast gates. My longest run is about 35
feet total length which sometimes services a jointer or planer or
router table. Almost all of the dust and chips are sucked up. My DC
is located outside of my main shop in my future sanding/turning room.
I have an air return back to the main room (it's filter too). No
problems with only one gate open. Sometimes when I'm routing I use
two gates- one below in the table and the second on the surface.
Marc
On Apr 26, 10:24 am, [email protected] wrote:
> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>
> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> are unavoidable given the layout.
>
> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> But, this would be costly.
>
> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>
> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> mh
> If you have a bag DC, a way to significantly increase CFM is to replace it
> with a filter. Bags are about 30ft2 and filter is 300ft2 so 10x less air
> resistance and huge improvement in CFM. Try Wynn Environmental for the some
> DC retrofit kits. $91 will get you a kit that can probably fit easily on
> your DC.
I do have a bag DC (delta). I think a filter would be a good start
and could be transferred to a 3HP DC should I take this route.
In fact (in reference to another poster) I do have pipes on the
ceiling. With a 1 1/2 HP DC.
mh
Barry wrote:
> Depends on the dust collector quality.
>
> I have a Jet DC1200 w/ canister, 6" metal pipe at the ceiling, staying
> 6" all the way to my machines, with a trash can cyclone next to the DC.
> All joints are riveted and sealed with aluminum tape.
I have a 5" metal pipe system. When I built a trash can cyclone with
5" in/outlets my Penn State 1 1/2hp DC scours out the trash can.
Believe me, I have modified every variable as to length of outlet tube
and inlet angle with same results. It will only work if I reduce the
5" in/outlets to 4", then it works fine but only gets the chips.
Please describe how you built your 6" trashcan separator if possible.
[email protected] wrote:
> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
Are you trying to collect chips (to avoid sweeping) or fine dust (to
protect your lungs)?
If you're looking to get the fine dust, then you would have been better
off with larger ducts (say 6" or so). The better 1.5HP collectors can
handle maybe 10-12 feet of 6" hose while still moving enough air.
Anything longer distances or smaller ducts and they will no longer move
enough air to do the job.
If you're stuck on the 4" ducts, then you pretty much need a LOT more
horsepower to move enough air. Clearvue makes a cyclone that will do
it, but it uses a 5HP motor.
Chris
On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>=20
> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> are unavoidable given the layout.
>=20
> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> But, this would be costly.
>=20
> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>=20
> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>=20
> mh
I have a similar system, with a couple more 45's than I really want, but th=
e system works pretty good.
You are right, its not giving you the through put you wanted. I had a simi=
lar setup and problem. Liking my lungs, I dumped the (almost ain't no bag =
there) bag that came with my HF 1.5hp/1250cfm (in your dreams) dust collect=
or and put a .5micron bag on it. Through put really did not go down all th=
at much, but was not what I wanted either.
So, I thought, why not make a two bag system out of it, double the through =
put, right? Not really, though through put did increase. =20
So, discarded the bag and ducted the discharge outside into small (3x3x5') =
building with a 39gal garbage can in in to catch any chips that got through=
the cyclone. To keep things from getting too uncontrolled, I covered the=
garbage can with burlap, thinking with the holes in it, the chips will be =
contained but the pressure and dust can vent. =20
Imagine my surprise when I realized the burlap was choking the system down.=
So, I removed the burlap and the cfm went way up. =20
Then, unknown to me, the wife was cleaning the little building of the overf=
low from when the collection can on the cyclone had gotten full, without my=
realizing it.. I flipped the switch on the DC and almost blew her out of=
the building (yeah, I know, but there was a lot of air coming through the =
pipe.). It seems the back pressure from the garbage can was really cutting=
into the through put. As I had vent area under the door and in the back o=
f the building. I removed the can and shut the door. Through put remained=
so high that HF CD was getting near 1,100 CFM. =20
The only trick is, you need to be able to vent outside.
Current setup is: 4"PVC ducting (schedule 40), with 45degree angles, flex =
pipe connecting the machines, cyclone and collection can, 1.5hp HF motor/im=
peller and 4" discharge pipe into the exterior building.
On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:31:41 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:06:15 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Deb"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrot=
e:
> >> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> >> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> >> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> >> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
> >>=20
> >> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> >> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> >> are unavoidable given the layout.
> >>=20
> >> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> >> But, this would be costly.
> >>=20
> >> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> >> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> >> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> >> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> >> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
> >>=20
> >> Thoughts would be appreciated.
> >>=20
> >> mh
> >
> >I have a similar system, with a couple more 45's than I really want, but=
the system works pretty good.
> >
> >You are right, its not giving you the through put you wanted. I had a s=
imilar setup and problem. Liking my lungs, I dumped the (almost ain't no b=
ag there) bag that came with my HF 1.5hp/1250cfm (in your dreams) dust coll=
ector and put a .5micron bag on it. Through put really did not go down all=
that much, but was not what I wanted either.
> >
> >So, I thought, why not make a two bag system out of it, double the throu=
gh put, right? Not really, though through put did increase. =20
> >
> >So, discarded the bag and ducted the discharge outside into small (3x3x5=
') building with a 39gal garbage can in in to catch any chips that got thro=
ugh the cyclone. To keep things from getting too uncontrolled, I covered =
the garbage can with burlap, thinking with the holes in it, the chips will =
be contained but the pressure and dust can vent. =20
> >
> >Imagine my surprise when I realized the burlap was choking the system do=
wn. So, I removed the burlap and the cfm went way up. =20
> >
> >Then, unknown to me, the wife was cleaning the little building of the ov=
erflow from when the collection can on the cyclone had gotten full, without=
my realizing it.. I flipped the switch on the DC and almost blew her out=
of the building (yeah, I know, but there was a lot of air coming through t=
he pipe.). It seems the back pressure from the garbage can was really cutt=
ing into the through put. As I had vent area under the door and in the bac=
k of the building. I removed the can and shut the door. Through put remai=
ned so high that HF CD was getting near 1,100 CFM. =20
> >
> >The only trick is, you need to be able to vent outside.
> >
> >Current setup is: 4"PVC ducting (schedule 40), with 45degree angles, fl=
ex pipe connecting the machines, cyclone and collection can, 1.5hp HF motor=
/impeller and 4" discharge pipe into the exterior building.
>=20
> Venting outside looks good on the surface but would totally destroy
> heat/AC bills, not to mention humidity. You're talking about
> exhausting 1k cfm of conditioned air to the outside, replaced by
> whatever is outside. Talking about leaving all the doors and windows
> open! Not my plan. OTOH, a garage or out-building for a compressor
> makes sense.
Can you say Energy Recovery Ventilator?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNyGCOmxG2tc
On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>=20
> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> are unavoidable given the layout.
>=20
> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> But, this would be costly.
>=20
> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>=20
> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>=20
> mh
Yes, a dry day here is when the humidity is anywhere near 50%, Its usually=
up around the upper 60's. While I could close up the gable ends and heat =
the place, given how moist things stay, I would need a huge dehumidifier. =
But even if I did get the humidity down to what we woodworkers consider a g=
ood range, when the piece left the shop, its going to soak up the moisture =
in the air. But give me the "Green" we have here to the "tan" they have ou=
t west. :-)
On 26 Apr 2007 07:24:29 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
>shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
>very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
>line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>
>The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
>somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
>are unavoidable given the layout.
>
>I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
>But, this would be costly.
>
>Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
>system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
>around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
>collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
>than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>
>Thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>mh
There are many factors that can degrade a DC system. Blast gates
leak, tubing leaks, sharp turns, length of tubes, ribbed pipes, pipe
diameter, etc. If there are any pipes lifting more than 4-5 feet,
then 1.5 HP is just not enough. Don't even think about pipes near the
ceiling unless you have a 3HP DC. Two DCs will help, but not if you
have a >4 foot lift.
On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 19:17:08 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:31:41 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:06:15 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Deb"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
>> >> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
>> >> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
>> >> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>> >>
>> >> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
>> >> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
>> >> are unavoidable given the layout.
>> >>
>> >> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
>> >> But, this would be costly.
>> >>
>> >> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
>> >> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
>> >> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
>> >> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
>> >> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>> >>
>> >> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> mh
>> >
>> >I have a similar system, with a couple more 45's than I really want, but the system works pretty good.
>> >
>> >You are right, its not giving you the through put you wanted. I had a similar setup and problem. Liking my lungs, I dumped the (almost ain't no bag there) bag that came with my HF 1.5hp/1250cfm (in your dreams) dust collector and put a .5micron bag on it. Through put really did not go down all that much, but was not what I wanted either.
>> >
>> >So, I thought, why not make a two bag system out of it, double the through put, right? Not really, though through put did increase.
>> >
>> >So, discarded the bag and ducted the discharge outside into small (3x3x5') building with a 39gal garbage can in in to catch any chips that got through the cyclone. To keep things from getting too uncontrolled, I covered the garbage can with burlap, thinking with the holes in it, the chips will be contained but the pressure and dust can vent.
>> >
>> >Imagine my surprise when I realized the burlap was choking the system down. So, I removed the burlap and the cfm went way up.
>> >
>> >Then, unknown to me, the wife was cleaning the little building of the overflow from when the collection can on the cyclone had gotten full, without my realizing it.. I flipped the switch on the DC and almost blew her out of the building (yeah, I know, but there was a lot of air coming through the pipe.). It seems the back pressure from the garbage can was really cutting into the through put. As I had vent area under the door and in the back of the building. I removed the can and shut the door. Through put remained so high that HF CD was getting near 1,100 CFM.
>> >
>> >The only trick is, you need to be able to vent outside.
>> >
>> >Current setup is: 4"PVC ducting (schedule 40), with 45degree angles, flex pipe connecting the machines, cyclone and collection can, 1.5hp HF motor/impeller and 4" discharge pipe into the exterior building.
>>
>> Venting outside looks good on the surface but would totally destroy
>> heat/AC bills, not to mention humidity. You're talking about
>> exhausting 1k cfm of conditioned air to the outside, replaced by
>> whatever is outside. Talking about leaving all the doors and windows
>> open! Not my plan. OTOH, a garage or out-building for a compressor
>> makes sense.
>
>Can you say Energy Recovery Ventilator?
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyGCOmxG2tc
With no impediment to the exhaust? They don't plug up with wet
sawdust (as the sawdust-laden air cools)? Do they transfer the
moisture too? Still think it's a lousy idea. Cleaning the air,
instead of exhausting it, should be a lot easier and cheaper.
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 13:14:02 GMT, Woody
<[email protected]> wrote:
>replying to herron1967, Woody wrote:
>If I reduce my 4 inch to 2 0r 2/12 inch could the theo-my 11/2 h.p.Delta
>collector?
>
Whaaaat???
--
Jerry O.
On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:06:15 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Deb"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
>> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
>> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
>> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>>
>> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
>> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
>> are unavoidable given the layout.
>>
>> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
>> But, this would be costly.
>>
>> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
>> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
>> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
>> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
>> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>>
>> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>>
>> mh
>
>I have a similar system, with a couple more 45's than I really want, but the system works pretty good.
>
>You are right, its not giving you the through put you wanted. I had a similar setup and problem. Liking my lungs, I dumped the (almost ain't no bag there) bag that came with my HF 1.5hp/1250cfm (in your dreams) dust collector and put a .5micron bag on it. Through put really did not go down all that much, but was not what I wanted either.
>
>So, I thought, why not make a two bag system out of it, double the through put, right? Not really, though through put did increase.
>
>So, discarded the bag and ducted the discharge outside into small (3x3x5') building with a 39gal garbage can in in to catch any chips that got through the cyclone. To keep things from getting too uncontrolled, I covered the garbage can with burlap, thinking with the holes in it, the chips will be contained but the pressure and dust can vent.
>
>Imagine my surprise when I realized the burlap was choking the system down. So, I removed the burlap and the cfm went way up.
>
>Then, unknown to me, the wife was cleaning the little building of the overflow from when the collection can on the cyclone had gotten full, without my realizing it.. I flipped the switch on the DC and almost blew her out of the building (yeah, I know, but there was a lot of air coming through the pipe.). It seems the back pressure from the garbage can was really cutting into the through put. As I had vent area under the door and in the back of the building. I removed the can and shut the door. Through put remained so high that HF CD was getting near 1,100 CFM.
>
>The only trick is, you need to be able to vent outside.
>
>Current setup is: 4"PVC ducting (schedule 40), with 45degree angles, flex pipe connecting the machines, cyclone and collection can, 1.5hp HF motor/impeller and 4" discharge pipe into the exterior building.
Venting outside looks good on the surface but would totally destroy
heat/AC bills, not to mention humidity. You're talking about
exhausting 1k cfm of conditioned air to the outside, replaced by
whatever is outside. Talking about leaving all the doors and windows
open! Not my plan. OTOH, a garage or out-building for a compressor
makes sense.
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:07:27 -0600, [email protected] (Jerry
Osage) wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 13:14:02 GMT, Woody
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>replying to herron1967, Woody wrote:
>>If I reduce my 4 inch to 2 0r 2/12 inch could the theo-my 11/2 h.p.Delta
>>collector?
>>
>Whaaaat???
Maybe this is what he meant?
"If I reduce my 4 inch to 2 0r 2-1/2 inch hose, could my 1-1/2
h.p.Delta collector work?"
A: It could work but not likely. Collectors aren't shop vacs.
High-volume at low-pressure. Shop vacs are rather the opposite.
Different tools. Necking down a collector doesn't increase the
velocity of the air all that much. But, hey, anything is worth a try
if it's not working now.
I have a similar set up and use 4" PVC sewer and drain. Has a nice smooth
surface inside.
The flex hose that accordians, will knock down the CFM tremendously so
you'll want to minimize its use. If those are your long runs it will kill
the CFM.
If you have a bag DC, a way to significantly increase CFM is to replace it
with a filter. Bags are about 30ft2 and filter is 300ft2 so 10x less air
resistance and huge improvement in CFM. Try Wynn Environmental for the some
DC retrofit kits. $91 will get you a kit that can probably fit easily on
your DC.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>
> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> are unavoidable given the layout.
>
> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> But, this would be costly.
>
> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>
> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> mh
>
LOL
"Cal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 26 Apr 2007 07:24:29 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
>>shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
>>very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
>>line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>>
>>The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
>>somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
>>are unavoidable given the layout.
>>
>>I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
>>But, this would be costly.
>>
>>Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
>>system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
>>around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
>>collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
>>than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>>
>>Thoughts would be appreciated.
>>
>>mh
>
> Air VELOCITY, not volume, is the key for sawdust and other light
> material. A 4" duct is waaayy too big. Prof. DC systems, like those
> used on floor sanding operations, use 28mm hoses for optimum results.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Please describe how you built your 6" trashcan separator if possible.
>
I ran the 6" pipe to short 6" flex ducts to 6->4" metal reducers.
The intake comes from the ceiling via a straight metal drop and a short
6" flex. ~ 2-1/2 to 3 ft of 6" smooth walled flex hose connects the can
to the DC. There is one 4" elbow inside the trashcan, on the intake
side. The 6" flex hoses help facilitate emptying the can.
The can can get ~ 2/3 full before larger chips get sucked into the main
DC. More smaller chips got left in the can when I had 4" pipe, but I
can live with it due to the superior overall performance.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>
> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> are unavoidable given the layout.
>
> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> But, this would be costly.
>
> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>
Three problems.
1.5hp is pretty feeble. Then the 4" is inadequate. A 3hp will help, but it
won't do a great deal better over the 4" either. And of course 90s are
poison. Any way to change them to two 45s?
I have the same problems and haven't decided what to do about it either.
I am "planning" on getting a 3hp cyclone (JDS?) and ungrading my plumbing
one of these days; but first I have to install a subpanel to handle the 3hp,
so it won't be tomorrow.
When I bought the 1.5hp I already had a 1hp and found another 1hp really
cheap. I thought about running two 1hps, but decided it was too noisy and
clumsy. Getting the 1.5hp turned out to be a mistake also, but that is how
you learn.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>
> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> are unavoidable given the layout.
>
> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> But, this would be costly.
>
> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>
> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> mh
>
Abrupt corners drastically cut down on the air flow. I have a Jet 1100CFM
collector with about the same hp rating and simply use 20' of flexible 4"
hose. I attach the hose to what ever machine I am using with the flared
slip fit fittings. Not a real purdy set up but it works well and well is
what I was looking for. A little more trouble also but it works well and,
well you know.
Over all I like the flexibility and performance of the set up.
Within a few seconds I can connect to my drill press, drum sander, router
table, 15" planer, mobile cabinet saw, OS Spindle and 12" disk sander, band
saw, and suck up debris on the floor at the end of the day.
On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 10:31:41 AM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:06:15 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Deb"
>=20
> >On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrot=
e:
> >> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> >> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
> >> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
> >> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
> >>=20
> >> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> >> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
> >> are unavoidable given the layout.
> >>=20
> >> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> >> But, this would be costly.
> >>=20
> >> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
> >> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> >> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
> >> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
> >> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
> >>=20
> >> Thoughts would be appreciated.
> >>=20
> >> mh
> >
> >I have a similar system, with a couple more 45's than I really want, but=
the system works pretty good.
> >
> >You are right, its not giving you the through put you wanted. I had a s=
imilar setup and problem. Liking my lungs, I dumped the (almost ain't no b=
ag there) bag that came with my HF 1.5hp/1250cfm (in your dreams) dust coll=
ector and put a .5micron bag on it. Through put really did not go down all=
that much, but was not what I wanted either.
> >
> >So, I thought, why not make a two bag system out of it, double the throu=
gh put, right? Not really, though through put did increase. =20
> >
> >So, discarded the bag and ducted the discharge outside into small (3x3x5=
') building with a 39gal garbage can in in to catch any chips that got thro=
ugh the cyclone. To keep things from getting too uncontrolled, I covered =
the garbage can with burlap, thinking with the holes in it, the chips will =
be contained but the pressure and dust can vent. =20
> >
> >Imagine my surprise when I realized the burlap was choking the system do=
wn. So, I removed the burlap and the cfm went way up. =20
> >
> >Then, unknown to me, the wife was cleaning the little building of the ov=
erflow from when the collection can on the cyclone had gotten full, without=
my realizing it.. I flipped the switch on the DC and almost blew her out=
of the building (yeah, I know, but there was a lot of air coming through t=
he pipe.). It seems the back pressure from the garbage can was really cutt=
ing into the through put. As I had vent area under the door and in the bac=
k of the building. I removed the can and shut the door. Through put remai=
ned so high that HF CD was getting near 1,100 CFM. =20
> >
> >The only trick is, you need to be able to vent outside.
> >
> >Current setup is: 4"PVC ducting (schedule 40), with 45degree angles, fl=
ex pipe connecting the machines, cyclone and collection can, 1.5hp HF motor=
/impeller and 4" discharge pipe into the exterior building.
>=20
> Venting outside looks good on the surface but would totally destroy
> heat/AC bills, not to mention humidity. You're talking about
> exhausting 1k cfm of conditioned air to the outside, replaced by
> whatever is outside. Talking about leaving all the doors and windows
> open! Not my plan. OTOH, a garage or out-building for a compressor
> makes sense.
Your heat loss only happens when the unit is running, which, in my shop, is=
not all that much, as I only have it on when its needed to collect dust fr=
om a tool I am using at the time. =20
Then there is the minor fact of not having either heat or cool in the shop.=
;-) But living in southern Alabama, the winters are not all that bad and =
the fan handles most of the hot in the summer. However, if I were in the f=
rozen north, the exhaust might cool the shop off a bit, but we are only ta=
lking a 4"duct, and one that is not sucking air all the time.
On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:23:14 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 19:17:08 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>=20
> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:31:41 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrot=
e:
> >> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:06:15 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Deb"
> >>=20
> >> >On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] w=
rote:
> >> >> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
> >> >> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and w=
as
> >> >> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of th=
e
> >> >> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
> >> >> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s whi=
ch
> >> >> are unavoidable given the layout.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
> >> >> But, this would be costly.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for =
a
> >> >> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
> >> >> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 H=
P
> >> >> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better resul=
ts
> >> >> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> Thoughts would be appreciated.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> mh
> >> >
> >> >I have a similar system, with a couple more 45's than I really want, =
but the system works pretty good.
> >> >
> >> >You are right, its not giving you the through put you wanted. I had =
a similar setup and problem. Liking my lungs, I dumped the (almost ain't n=
o bag there) bag that came with my HF 1.5hp/1250cfm (in your dreams) dust c=
ollector and put a .5micron bag on it. Through put really did not go down =
all that much, but was not what I wanted either.
> >> >
> >> >So, I thought, why not make a two bag system out of it, double the th=
rough put, right? Not really, though through put did increase. =20
> >> >
> >> >So, discarded the bag and ducted the discharge outside into small (3x=
3x5') building with a 39gal garbage can in in to catch any chips that got t=
hrough the cyclone. To keep things from getting too uncontrolled, I cover=
ed the garbage can with burlap, thinking with the holes in it, the chips wi=
ll be contained but the pressure and dust can vent. =20
> >> >
> >> >Imagine my surprise when I realized the burlap was choking the system=
down. So, I removed the burlap and the cfm went way up. =20
> >> >
> >> >Then, unknown to me, the wife was cleaning the little building of the=
overflow from when the collection can on the cyclone had gotten full, with=
out my realizing it.. I flipped the switch on the DC and almost blew her =
out of the building (yeah, I know, but there was a lot of air coming throug=
h the pipe.). It seems the back pressure from the garbage can was really c=
utting into the through put. As I had vent area under the door and in the =
back of the building. I removed the can and shut the door. Through put re=
mained so high that HF CD was getting near 1,100 CFM. =20
> >> >
> >> >The only trick is, you need to be able to vent outside.
> >> >
> >> >Current setup is: 4"PVC ducting (schedule 40), with 45degree angles,=
flex pipe connecting the machines, cyclone and collection can, 1.5hp HF mo=
tor/impeller and 4" discharge pipe into the exterior building.
> >>=20
> >> Venting outside looks good on the surface but would totally destroy
> >> heat/AC bills, not to mention humidity. You're talking about
> >> exhausting 1k cfm of conditioned air to the outside, replaced by
> >> whatever is outside. Talking about leaving all the doors and windows
> >> open! Not my plan. OTOH, a garage or out-building for a compressor
> >> makes sense.
> >
> >Can you say Energy Recovery Ventilator?
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNyGCOmxG2tc
>=20
> With no impediment to the exhaust? They don't plug up with wet
> sawdust (as the sawdust-laden air cools)? Do they transfer the
> moisture too? Still think it's a lousy idea. Cleaning the air,
> instead of exhausting it, should be a lot easier and cheaper.
As for the plugging, no, the discharge empties through the roof of the litt=
le out building (with a half moon on the door, of course). When the chip b=
ucket on the cyclone overflows, I do get debris that I need to clean out, b=
ut other than that, the vents below the door and under the back wall both a=
llow the building to stay dry.
Could you explain your math to me? The set up cost me exactly two sheets o=
f exterior ply, a couple 2x4, two lengths of sewer pipe (no connector need=
ed) and one elbow.
On 26 Apr 2007 07:24:29 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
>shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
>very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
>line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>
>The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
>somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
>are unavoidable given the layout.
>
>I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
>But, this would be costly.
>
>Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
>system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
>around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
>collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
>than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>
>Thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>mh
Air VELOCITY, not volume, is the key for sawdust and other light
material. A 4" duct is waaayy too big. Prof. DC systems, like those
used on floor sanding operations, use 28mm hoses for optimum results.
On 12/18/2018 8:14 AM, Woody wrote:
> replying to herron1967, Woody wrote:
> If I reduce my 4 inch to 2 0r 2/12 inch could the theo-my 11/2 h.p.Delta
> collector?
>
Not sure what your trying to say, but, I have a 1/2 hp motor on my
collector, it runs though 5 90's and about 30'- 40' of 4" PVC pipe to a
40 gallon pre-filter drum with numerous ports from 2 1/2" to 4". the
ports connect to router table, shaper, TS, BS, 6" jointer, 15" planer,
36" belt sander, 10" disk sander. Been using this set up for over 40 years.
First, it is not powerful like a shop vac. Has lots of volume but won't
suck up nails, screws and what not. It works great with all wood dust
and chips. I built this system before knowing you needed a million hp
motor,no leaks, few turns and no corrugated piping in a dust collector
system. I get almost zero clogs. Recently the TS clogged up and turns
out a cloth rag got sucked halfway though the 3" pipe. It's a complete
mystery how the rag got in there, it had to fall in when the blade and
insert were out?
I actually think it works better with low pressure because only very
fine powder makes it to to the filter. Anything larger than powder stays
in the pre-filter drum. Fan blades never see anything other than clean air.
I sometimes use it to sweep up the floor but prefer the shop vac that
sweeps up everything, including metal, screws, pencils and so on. All
duct work is simply connected, no glue, no tape, no worries about
sucking air, although I doubt much outside air is sucked into it.
My system would not work in a commercial shop where 20 tools are
connected at once, but I run one tool at a time, super power is
absolutely not needed. I can plane a 15" board and it doesn't even
blink (segmented spiral cutter of course).
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SWDeveloper wrote:
>> Don't even think about pipes near the
>> ceiling unless you have a 3HP DC. Two DCs will help, but not if you
>> have a >4 foot lift.
>
> Depends on the dust collector quality.
Precicely. My DC is a Jet 1100CFM with 4", 20' of flex hose. Typically
when I work close to the DC the hose makes an immediate 90 degree bend, up
7' then a 180 degree bend back to the floor.
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:13:28 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Deb"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 10:31:41 AM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:06:15 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Deb"
>
>>
>> >On Thursday, April 26, 2007 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> I just finished half of a 4" dust collecting system in my basement
>> >> shop. I attached it to my 1 1/2 HP dust collector last night and was
>> >> very disappointment with the results. The suction at the end of the
>> >> line is weak even when all blast gates but one are closed.
>> >>
>> >> The collector is as centrally located as it could be given the
>> >> somewhat awkward layout of my basement. The ducts have 2-3 90s which
>> >> are unavoidable given the layout.
>> >>
>> >> I could upgrade to a 3HP collector and practically double the cfm.
>> >> But, this would be costly.
>> >>
>> >> Was it a mistake to think that a 1 1/2 HP collector would work for a
>> >> system of 4" ducts? I would prefer not to roll a dust collector
>> >> around when I am using the shop, but I am wondering if two 1 1/2 HP
>> >> collectors (one in either side of the shop) would give better results
>> >> than a single 3HP collector centrally located.
>> >>
>> >> Thoughts would be appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> mh
>> >
>> >I have a similar system, with a couple more 45's than I really want, but the system works pretty good.
>> >
>> >You are right, its not giving you the through put you wanted. I had a similar setup and problem. Liking my lungs, I dumped the (almost ain't no bag there) bag that came with my HF 1.5hp/1250cfm (in your dreams) dust collector and put a .5micron bag on it. Through put really did not go down all that much, but was not what I wanted either.
>> >
>> >So, I thought, why not make a two bag system out of it, double the through put, right? Not really, though through put did increase.
>> >
>> >So, discarded the bag and ducted the discharge outside into small (3x3x5') building with a 39gal garbage can in in to catch any chips that got through the cyclone. To keep things from getting too uncontrolled, I covered the garbage can with burlap, thinking with the holes in it, the chips will be contained but the pressure and dust can vent.
>> >
>> >Imagine my surprise when I realized the burlap was choking the system down. So, I removed the burlap and the cfm went way up.
>> >
>> >Then, unknown to me, the wife was cleaning the little building of the overflow from when the collection can on the cyclone had gotten full, without my realizing it.. I flipped the switch on the DC and almost blew her out of the building (yeah, I know, but there was a lot of air coming through the pipe.). It seems the back pressure from the garbage can was really cutting into the through put. As I had vent area under the door and in the back of the building. I removed the can and shut the door. Through put remained so high that HF CD was getting near 1,100 CFM.
>> >
>> >The only trick is, you need to be able to vent outside.
>> >
>> >Current setup is: 4"PVC ducting (schedule 40), with 45degree angles, flex pipe connecting the machines, cyclone and collection can, 1.5hp HF motor/impeller and 4" discharge pipe into the exterior building.
>>
>> Venting outside looks good on the surface but would totally destroy
>> heat/AC bills, not to mention humidity. You're talking about
>> exhausting 1k cfm of conditioned air to the outside, replaced by
>> whatever is outside. Talking about leaving all the doors and windows
>> open! Not my plan. OTOH, a garage or out-building for a compressor
>> makes sense.
>
>
>Your heat loss only happens when the unit is running, which, in my shop, is not all that much, as I only have it on when its needed to collect dust from a tool I am using at the time.
But it'll change all the air in your house in just a few minutes.
>Then there is the minor fact of not having either heat or cool in the shop. ;-) But living in southern Alabama, the winters are not all that bad and the fan handles most of the hot in the summer. However, if I were in the frozen north, the exhaust might cool the shop off a bit, but we are only talking a 4"duct, and one that is not sucking air all the time.
Living in South Alabama, I'm sure you're concerned about humidity. All
that fresh air is humid as all hell. If you shop is unheated and not
air conditioned, you don't care. Might just as well work outside. ;-)
In South Alabama? Not my idea of fun (lived in E. Central AL for
three years, now in Atlanta).
SWDeveloper wrote:
> Don't even think about pipes near the
> ceiling unless you have a 3HP DC. Two DCs will help, but not if you
> have a >4 foot lift.
Depends on the dust collector quality.
I have a Jet DC1200 w/ canister, 6" metal pipe at the ceiling, staying
6" all the way to my machines, with a trash can cyclone next to the DC.
All joints are riveted and sealed with aluminum tape.
My table saw is at the end of ~ 25 ft of pipe, and has a 7' lift. All I
see in the clear 6" flex pipe near the saw is a few crumbs. My DJ-20's
clear flex section, at the end of 20' of pipe, has nothing at all left
after shutting the DC off.
The TS drop rises at about a 70 degree angle to a wye, with the other
leg connected to shop-made overhead guard, the jointer drop is a much
shallower slope. I use 6" gates and only one leg at a time.