Cross cutting a 13 x 30 piece of 3/4 ply. I had thought that it was a little
narrow to cross cut BUT pushing aside that one shred of common sense I cut
it anyway. This ply is very light weight for 3/4 (luan) so I am thinking
this was part of the problem. Anyway I turned the right side piece just a
hair as I was just finishing the cut. Probably now that it was free it
needed less force to guide accross the saw.
The blade grabbed it, spun it around on the top of the saw like a top and
shot it out and hit me in the gut with more than a little force.
Having a nice red line across my mid section about 3/4 thick is very
interesting. Not to mention the pain inside when eating and drinking. I
would attribute the same feeling as if someone took a broom handle and did a
Sammy Sosa to your stomach. This was Friday at noon and the pain is more
localized to the 3/4" stripe now.
There are no exterior bruises or serious internal damage so far and no flesh
touched the blade, thank God, this incident could of been so much worse.
Stats:
TS with no guard or splitter
Rushing project
I will finally make my crosscut sled now as I have been warned.
Rich
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 2:08pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Rich)
claims:
Cross cutting a 13 x 30 piece of 3/4 ply. I had thought that it was a
little narrow to cross cut <snip>
I do a lot of cross-cutting, usually about 12", or sliglyly less,
wide. No prob. Of course, I do use a saw sled.
Making a success of the job at hand is the best step toward the kind you
want.
- Bernard M. Baruch
More likely, your boss gets a raise and/or promotion, from getting
credit for your work.
- JOAT
-linux_lad wrote:
>
> Rich wrote:
> > Cross cutting a 13 x 30 piece of 3/4 ply. I had thought that it was a little
> > narrow to cross cut BUT pushing aside that one shred of common sense I cut
> > it anyway. This ply is very light weight for 3/4 (luan) so I am thinking
> > this was part of the problem. Anyway I turned the right side piece just a
> > hair as I was just finishing the cut. Probably now that it was free it
> > needed less force to guide accross the saw.
> >
> > The blade grabbed it, spun it around on the top of the saw like a top and
> > shot it out and hit me in the gut with more than a little force.
> >
> > Having a nice red line across my mid section about 3/4 thick is very
> > interesting. Not to mention the pain inside when eating and drinking. I
> > would attribute the same feeling as if someone took a broom handle and did a
> > Sammy Sosa to your stomach. This was Friday at noon and the pain is more
> > localized to the 3/4" stripe now.
> >
> > There are no exterior bruises or serious internal damage so far and no flesh
> > touched the blade, thank God, this incident could of been so much worse.
> >
> > Stats:
> > TS with no guard or splitter
> > Rushing project
> >
> > I will finally make my crosscut sled now as I have been warned.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Better get started on that crosscut sled. I was ripping some warped
> 5/4 fir with no splitter when I heard a noise and turned my head to look
> over my left shoulder. At that moment, the saw grabbed the stock and
> flung it into my stomach sideways with enough force to knock the wind
> out of me. It left a nice rectangular bruise, and a served as a reminder
> of the awesome horsepower of a 3hp saw.
>
> --
> -linux_lad
> To verify that this post isn't forged, click here:
> http://www.spoofproof.org/verify.php?sig=8aa429e796bd5b208397c80e6f4c6349
Awesome horsepower? you want to see awesome horsepower? Get kicked
in the face by a horse. Now that's only about 1/4 horsepower. Makes
your whack in the stomach a stroll in the park.
For the right side piece to turn, it would seem to me there was no fence
involved, or he failed to use a cutoff stop to provide clearance and was
guiding from the other side of the blade. If there was a standard miter
gage in use, he must have been doing the unforgivable and holding on to the
offcut, a recipe for disaster even on a 2" crosscut.
In any case, tilting the trailing edge of the piece into the blade could
easily spin that puppy around and back. Whether or not a splitter would
have helped depends on the height of the splitter and the lift imparted to
the piece. A blade guard or good sense would have prevented the entire
incident.
"Wes" <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:25:45 GMT, B a r r y
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> |On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:08:56 -0700, Wes <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote:
> |
> |
> |>|Stats:
> |>|TS with no guard or splitter
> |>
> |>There is your major problem. A splitter would have likely prevented
> |>this.
> |
> |
> |For a crosscut? He was crosscutting a 13x30 piece ply.
>
> Well, he said, "Anyway I turned the right side piece just a
> hair as I was just finishing the cut. Probably now that it was free it
> needed less force to guide accross the saw."
> |
> |A splitter is not necessary with a properly done crosscut, as the sled
> |or miter gauge prevents attempting to cut a curved kerf, and wood
> |dosen't close up when cut across the grain like it does when ripped.
>
> Yeah, but it's the "properly done" part that is the gotcha.
>
> Wes
May beetle! http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/youth/bug/bug075.html
Not to mention the heresy that increasing the opening size beyond the cut
(as in fence not parallel) can produce anything but disaster.
Feel better?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B a r r y" wrote in message
>
> > It's obvious to me, but not to others. Thanks for pointing out my
> > omission.
>
> I hated doing it. :) Seems like there is no end of someone waiting to jump
> on a mistake/omission like a duck on a June bug these days. But
considering
> the thread and that someone will be trying to cut two inches off the end
of
> a six foot tubafour using just the fence ....
See the thread of 3-4 months ago about setting the fence for clearance
after the cut when ripping.
I think I even posted a site for elementary vector analysis.
You do feel better about someone jumping on the post, though, don't you?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "George" wrote in message
>
> > Not to mention the heresy that increasing the opening size beyond the
cut
> > (as in fence not parallel) can produce anything but disaster.
> >
> > Feel better?
>
> Maybe ... if I had an idea of what you are talking about?
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 7/10/04
>
>
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:08:03 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
horror story snipped
|
|Stats:
|TS with no guard or splitter
There is your major problem. A splitter would have likely prevented
this.
|Rushing project
A secondary, but contributory factor.
|
|I will finally make my crosscut sled now as I have been warned.
Aha, a man who learns by his mistakes.
Boy have I done a lot of learning. [g].
Wes
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:52:38 GMT, B a r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:
|On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:54:44 -0700, Wes <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote:
|
|>|I'm guessing he was either using the fence, thinking that 13" was
|>|enough to simulate a rip, or trying to freehand it.
|>
|>That's funny, do we agree or not? Since as I just stated, that's
|>exactly what I was thinking, which makes it a "rip cut" not a
|>crosscut.
|
|Not really. I wrote "simulate" a rip. He's not actually ripping,
|only fooling himself that he is. This is a very common newbie move
|with plywood.
Hmmm. My brother's name is Barry, so I feel like I'm arguing with
him, which was never very productive either. [g]
If we are cutting ply that has no defined grain pattern, can we agree
that neither rip nor crosscut have their regular meanings. In which
case I propose that if the fence is in use to guide the work it is a
"rip" cut and if a miter gauge or sled is in use it is a "crosscut."
I'm guessing (always a bad move) that you consider it a "rip" when the
long edge of the workpiece is against the fence and a "crosscut" when
the long edge of the work is against a miter gauge or sled.
If, on the off chance that I guessed correctly, how should I cut a
two-foot square of plywood in half? Do I "rip" it or "crosscut" it?
What if the piece is one-foot square? (My secret answer here)
Regards,
Wes
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Cross cutting a 13 x 30 piece of 3/4 ply. I had thought that it was a little
> narrow to cross cut BUT pushing aside that one shred of common sense I cut
> it anyway. This ply is very light weight for 3/4 (luan) so I am thinking
> this was part of the problem. Anyway I turned the right side piece just a
> hair as I was just finishing the cut. Probably now that it was free it
> needed less force to guide accross the saw.
>
> The blade grabbed it, spun it around on the top of the saw like a top and
> shot it out and hit me in the gut with more than a little force.
>
> Having a nice red line across my mid section about 3/4 thick is very
> interesting. Not to mention the pain inside when eating and drinking. I
> would attribute the same feeling as if someone took a broom handle and did a
> Sammy Sosa to your stomach. This was Friday at noon and the pain is more
> localized to the 3/4" stripe now.
>
> There are no exterior bruises or serious internal damage so far and no flesh
> touched the blade, thank God, this incident could of been so much worse.
>
> Stats:
> TS with no guard or splitter
> Rushing project
>
> I will finally make my crosscut sled now as I have been warned.
>
> Rich
Rich.. Been there. done that. Except I was cutting 3/4 inch ply.
Peeled the top of one finger down to the tendon. That REALLY smarts.
Got stitched up and a little wiser now. Warren
Rich wrote:
> Cross cutting a 13 x 30 piece of 3/4 ply. I had thought that it was a little
> narrow to cross cut BUT pushing aside that one shred of common sense I cut
> it anyway. This ply is very light weight for 3/4 (luan) so I am thinking
> this was part of the problem. Anyway I turned the right side piece just a
> hair as I was just finishing the cut. Probably now that it was free it
> needed less force to guide accross the saw.
>
> The blade grabbed it, spun it around on the top of the saw like a top and
> shot it out and hit me in the gut with more than a little force.
>
> Having a nice red line across my mid section about 3/4 thick is very
> interesting. Not to mention the pain inside when eating and drinking. I
> would attribute the same feeling as if someone took a broom handle and did a
> Sammy Sosa to your stomach. This was Friday at noon and the pain is more
> localized to the 3/4" stripe now.
>
> There are no exterior bruises or serious internal damage so far and no flesh
> touched the blade, thank God, this incident could of been so much worse.
>
> Stats:
> TS with no guard or splitter
> Rushing project
>
> I will finally make my crosscut sled now as I have been warned.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Better get started on that crosscut sled. I was ripping some warped
5/4 fir with no splitter when I heard a noise and turned my head to look
over my left shoulder. At that moment, the saw grabbed the stock and
flung it into my stomach sideways with enough force to knock the wind
out of me. It left a nice rectangular bruise, and a served as a reminder
of the awesome horsepower of a 3hp saw.
--
-linux_lad
To verify that this post isn't forged, click here:
http://www.spoofproof.org/verify.php?sig=8aa429e796bd5b208397c80e6f4c6349
"B a r r y" wrote in message
> It's obvious to me, but not to others. Thanks for pointing out my
> omission.
I hated doing it. :) Seems like there is no end of someone waiting to jump
on a mistake/omission like a duck on a June bug these days. But considering
the thread and that someone will be trying to cut two inches off the end of
a six foot tubafour using just the fence ....
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The original piece was like 42-48 inches long by 13. I needed to cut it
down
> 30". I set my fence at 30" and guided it through. Whenever I cut ply I
> always look at the gap to keep from binding on the blade.
OK, we all know a sled it best. I've done this sort of thing though, but
have take a different approach. I set the fence (allowing for kerf or
course) for the short dimension. In your case, it would have been about 18"
to leave the 30" needed.
I don't look at the gap at all. I look at the wood against the fence while
pushing VERY hard with two hands to keep it there. I push it completely
past the blade and turn the saw off. After the blade stops I'll pick up the
waste on the outfeed table and the good piece on the left extension.
I'm not advocating this method. A panel sled is the way to go.
Ed
"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> See the thread of 3-4 months ago about setting the fence for clearance
> after the cut when ripping.
>
> I think I even posted a site for elementary vector analysis.
I don't recall being involved in that discussion, but I could be wrong. I've
always been of the opionon that slight fence toe out, within reason, won't
make a tinker's damn with regard to the cut, or precision of same... did I
say otherwise?
> You do feel better about someone jumping on the post, though, don't you?
A bug by another name ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
The original piece was like 42-48 inches long by 13. I needed to cut it down
30". I set my fence at 30" and guided it through. Whenever I cut ply I
always look at the gap to keep from binding on the blade. I usually adjust
this by my left hand position, bringing it closer in to keep from binding.
Well all my attention was on the left side and the gap and not noticing I
turned the right piece slightly. I remember the blade cutting a curve in the
ply right before all heck broke loose. I'm guessing I turned the piece
slightly clockwise but I cant remember as it happened so fast.
Normally I have a guard and splitter on the saw but when I have to remove it
for something it takes a long while before I get it back on. I'm thinking
the guard and splitter would at least restricted the ply from dancing around
like a top then shooting it out! But who knows, this saw has 5hp so maybe
the guard would of bounced off me too. ouch.
Next time I have a judgement call I hope to make the not so stupid decision
this time. Guard will go back on and cross cutt sled will be built.
Sincerely,
Rich
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:08:56 -0700, Wes <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >|Stats:
> >|TS with no guard or splitter
> >
> >There is your major problem. A splitter would have likely prevented
> >this.
>
>
> For a crosscut? He was crosscutting a 13x30 piece ply.
>
> I'm guessing he was either using the fence, thinking that 13" was
> enough to simulate a rip, or trying to freehand it.
>
> In either case, the work can fly even with a splitter.
>
> A splitter is not necessary with a properly done crosscut, as the sled
> or miter gauge prevents attempting to cut a curved kerf, and wood
> dosen't close up when cut across the grain like it does when ripped.
>
> Barry
>
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snipppage>
>
> On that note, I did a tune-up on my Unisaw today ... first one in over
> a year. The fence was toed out at least a 1/32nd at the back, and was
> about 2 degrees off being perpendicular to the table wings. Although I
> haven't noticed a deterioration in cut precision, apparently I need to
> start checking these things more often to be on the safe side.
>
I did the same last month, 18 months after installation of the new Unisaw.
Seems that bouncing the saw & mobile base over the expansion joint in the
concrete ustabeagarage floor caused the horizontal alignment of the
extension table to go out. That led to adjusting the wings & top,
requiring the adjustment to parallel of the blade & miter slots, as well as
the fence. Cleaned out the accumulation of various chunks, sawdust & debris
from inside the saw as well.
I don't think I just imagined the improvement in the quality of the cuts.
Yesterday's maintenance chore was cleaning & emptying the dust collector
bags and tubing. Next up: cleaning the crud off of the sawblades in the
holder, and determining which are due for a touchup.
Patriarch
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:25:45 GMT, B a r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:
|On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:08:56 -0700, Wes <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote:
|
|
|>|Stats:
|>|TS with no guard or splitter
|>
|>There is your major problem. A splitter would have likely prevented
|>this.
|
|
|For a crosscut? He was crosscutting a 13x30 piece ply.
Well, he said, "Anyway I turned the right side piece just a
hair as I was just finishing the cut. Probably now that it was free it
needed less force to guide accross the saw."
I imagined that he was using the 13" side against the fence,
otherwise, I can't imagine "turning the right side piece...."
|
|I'm guessing he was either using the fence, thinking that 13" was
|enough to simulate a rip, or trying to freehand it.
That's funny, do we agree or not? Since as I just stated, that's
exactly what I was thinking, which makes it a "rip cut" not a
crosscut.
|
|In either case, the work can fly even with a splitter.
Much less likely in the envisioned scenario, especially if the
splitter incorporates (as mine does) anti-kickback pawls.
|
|A splitter is not necessary with a properly done crosscut, as the sled
|or miter gauge prevents attempting to cut a curved kerf, and wood
|dosen't close up when cut across the grain like it does when ripped.
Yeah, but it's the "properly done" part that is the gotcha.
Wes
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:08:56 -0700, Wes <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote:
>|Stats:
>|TS with no guard or splitter
>
>There is your major problem. A splitter would have likely prevented
>this.
For a crosscut? He was crosscutting a 13x30 piece ply.
I'm guessing he was either using the fence, thinking that 13" was
enough to simulate a rip, or trying to freehand it.
In either case, the work can fly even with a splitter.
A splitter is not necessary with a properly done crosscut, as the sled
or miter gauge prevents attempting to cut a curved kerf, and wood
dosen't close up when cut across the grain like it does when ripped.
Barry
B a r r y wrote:
>
>
> For a crosscut? He was crosscutting a 13x30 piece ply.
aYup, playing roulette.
>
> In either case, the work can fly even with a splitter.
>
But you see, it could never be a matter of extremely poor judgment.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice
there is.
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 06:03:25 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"B a r r y" wrote in message
>
>>. If using the fence
>> to measure repeat cuts, use a short stop block clamped to the fence,
>> so that there is nothing to trap the wood.
>
>That could be a dangerous piece of advice without a miter gauge, eh?
It most certainly is. <G>
It's obvious to me, but not to others. Thanks for pointing out my
omission.
Barry
"B a r r y" wrote in message
> A splitter is not necessary with a properly done crosscut, as the sled
> or miter gauge prevents attempting to cut a curved kerf, and wood
> dosen't close up when cut across the grain like it does when ripped.
It would be interesting to know if he had one installed. IME, there is
distinct possibility that a splitter may well have prevented the incident.
The OP stated he was at the end of the 13" cut and a splitter may have
physically prevented the board from rotating onto the back of the blade,
which was the mechanism that propelled it toward him.
A riving knife, of the European kind that hugs backside of the blade, may do
a better job of it, however.
On that note, I did a tune-up on my Unisaw today ... first one in over a
year. The fence was toed out at least a 1/32nd at the back, and was about 2
degrees off being perpendicular to the table wings. Although I haven't
noticed a deterioration in cut precision, apparently I need to start
checking these things more often to be on the safe side.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:08:03 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Cross cutting a 13 x 30
********
>The blade grabbed it, spun it around on the top of the saw like a top and
>shot it out and hit me in the gut with more than a little force.
************
>Stats:
>TS with no guard or splitter
>Rushing project
>
>I will finally make my crosscut sled now as I have been warned.
>
>Rich
having your saw punch you in the gut is a real eye opener, eh?
cheap lesson.
make that sled today..... and the zero clearance insert with the
splitter in it....
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cross cutting a 13 x 30 piece of 3/4 ply. I had thought that it was a
little
> narrow to cross cut BUT pushing aside that one shred of common sense I cut
> it anyway.
You know that "Gut Feeling" you have some times... Let it be your guide so
that the "GUT" feeling that you have now will not be common place. ;~)
I am glad to hear that you are still with us..
This cut can be safely made, but you absolutely have to keep the panel flat
against the fence through the WHOLE CUT and the edge against the fence has
to be absolutely straight. Your hands firmly pressed down on top of the
panel as it is being cut will help hold it down in the event that the blade
grabs the panel. If the edge against the fence is not straight, what
happened to you is likely to happen over and over. As you indicated, a sled
is a safer option.
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 19:43:35 -0700, Wes <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hmmm. My brother's name is Barry, so I feel like I'm arguing with
>him, which was never very productive either. [g]
I'm not arguing, I'm discussing. Sorry you feel differently
>I'm guessing (always a bad move) that you consider it a "rip" when the
>long edge of the workpiece is against the fence and a "crosscut" when
>the long edge of the work is against a miter gauge or sled.
RIGHT!
>If, on the off chance that I guessed correctly, how should I cut a
>two-foot square of plywood in half? Do I "rip" it or "crosscut" it?
>What if the piece is one-foot square? (My secret answer here)
It dosen't matter, it's square. <G> Read on...
What the OP did was try to cut a 40 something x 13 inch ply part down
to 30 inches using the fence, rather than a proper miter gauge or
sled. Maybe he was using both a gauge and the fence. Either way, a
part that is much wider than it is long is very easy to launch this
way. The part gets ever so turned, and since it's trapped between the
fence and the blade, the blade gets all kinds of leverage to grab the
board. On a normal crosscut without the fence, the board would simply
turn, simply damaging the end of it. Since the fence IS there, a
very memorable event follows,usually even with a splitter.
The true moral of this story is NEVER trap a board that is much wider
than it is long between the fence and the blade. If using the fence
to measure repeat cuts, use a short stop block clamped to the fence,
so that there is nothing to trap the wood.
What the OP did could have just as easily have happened with a
glued-up wide solid board, the fact that it's ply is actually
irrelevant.
Barry
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:54:44 -0700, Wes <n7ws@_yahoo.com> wrote:
>|I'm guessing he was either using the fence, thinking that 13" was
>|enough to simulate a rip, or trying to freehand it.
>
>That's funny, do we agree or not? Since as I just stated, that's
>exactly what I was thinking, which makes it a "rip cut" not a
>crosscut.
Not really. I wrote "simulate" a rip. He's not actually ripping,
only fooling himself that he is. This is a very common newbie move
with plywood.
One of these cuts WILL kickback with a splitter. When I was a green
newbie, I did the same, with a splitter. The result was so painful
that I actually thought I had just killed myself.
|
>|In either case, the work can fly even with a splitter.
>
>Much less likely in the envisioned scenario, especially if the
>splitter incorporates (as mine does) anti-kickback pawls.
Not really. The short edge of a long strip of ply dosen't really hold
well in the pawls once the part gets leverage against the fence. My
incident also involved pawls. My pawls had a bit of side to side
play, which easily allowed the ply to slip out from underneath as it
rotated. The pawls work better on a real rip due to grain orientation
and the overall length of the work.
Barry
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:10:39 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The original piece was like 42-48 inches long by 13. I needed to cut it down
>30". I set my fence at 30" and guided it through.
Just as I thought.
BTDT, glad to hear you're not permanently damaged!
Barry