I'm hoping to tap the collective wisdom for experience and/or pointers
to web resources.
I'm planning on making spindles for a project (an hourglass) out of two
contrasting woods (maple & bloodwood, likely). They'll be on the order
of 3/8", square cross-section. For visual aesthetics, I'd like to join
them end-to-end with a scarf joint, cut at 45 degrees (if that actually
qualifies as a scarf joint?). They'll be taking some light compression
load as well as lateral load (figure people will pick it up by the
spindles). My questions are:
1) Will a 45 degree cut suffice for gluing the joint without additional
reinforcements?
2) Should I go for something like epoxy because of the quasi-end grain
nature of the joint?
3) I'm considering reinforcing this with a thin dowel along the long
axis (completely hidden).
I suspect my glue joint will hold up at least until I get it out of the
shop, but may not survive much wear-and-tear. The interior dowel ought
to hold, right?
TIA,
Larry
"Larry Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm hoping to tap the collective wisdom for experience and/or pointers to
> web resources.
>
> I'm planning on making spindles for a project (an hourglass) out of two
> contrasting woods (maple & bloodwood, likely). They'll be on the order
> of 3/8", square cross-section. For visual aesthetics, I'd like to join
> them end-to-end with a scarf joint, cut at 45 degrees (if that actually
> qualifies as a scarf joint?). They'll be taking some light compression
> load as well as lateral load (figure people will pick it up by the
> spindles). My questions are:
>
> 1) Will a 45 degree cut suffice for gluing the joint without additional
> reinforcements?
>
> 2) Should I go for something like epoxy because of the quasi-end grain
> nature of the joint?
>
> 3) I'm considering reinforcing this with a thin dowel along the long axis
> (completely hidden).
>
> I suspect my glue joint will hold up at least until I get it out of the
> shop, but may not survive much wear-and-tear. The interior dowel ought to
> hold, right?
>
> TIA,
>
Larry ,
(1) Using just a scarf joint would work, but probably not for long.
(2) I wouldn't rely on epoxy to solve the problem.
(3) Adding a dowel would definately help.
You have options here. I scarf joint/dowel is the easiest thing, but
probably not the best. If you think you have the skills and/or material to
practice on, I'd suggest one of these joints. They are aranged from about
the easiest, to more difficult:
1 half lap (maybe even pegged with another contrasing wood?)
2. slot mortise and tenon
3. sliding dovetail (this might look real nice here)
4. finger joint
There are other ways also, but these should get good results. --dave
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:00:03 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Larry Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I'm hoping to tap the collective wisdom for experience and/or pointers to
>>> web resources.
>>>
>>> I'm planning on making spindles for a project (an hourglass) out of two
>>> contrasting woods (maple & bloodwood, likely). They'll be on the order
>>> of 3/8", square cross-section. For visual aesthetics, I'd like to join
>>> them end-to-end with a scarf joint, cut at 45 degrees (if that actually
>>> qualifies as a scarf joint?). They'll be taking some light compression
>>> load as well as lateral load (figure people will pick it up by the
>>> spindles). My questions are:
>>>
>>> 1) Will a 45 degree cut suffice for gluing the joint without additional
>>> reinforcements?
>>>
>>> 2) Should I go for something like epoxy because of the quasi-end grain
>>> nature of the joint?
>>>
>>> 3) I'm considering reinforcing this with a thin dowel along the long axis
>>> (completely hidden).
>>>
>>> I suspect my glue joint will hold up at least until I get it out of the
>>> shop, but may not survive much wear-and-tear. The interior dowel ought
>>> to hold, right?
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>>
>>
>>
>> Larry ,
>> (1) Using just a scarf joint would work, but probably not for long.
>> (2) I wouldn't rely on epoxy to solve the problem.
>> (3) Adding a dowel would definately help.
>>
>> You have options here. I scarf joint/dowel is the easiest thing, but
>> probably not the best. If you think you have the skills and/or material
>> to practice on, I'd suggest one of these joints. They are aranged from
>> about the easiest, to more difficult:
>>
>> 1 half lap (maybe even pegged with another contrasing wood?)
>> 2. slot mortise and tenon
>> 3. sliding dovetail (this might look real nice here)
>> 4. finger joint
>>
>> There are other ways also, but these should get good results. --dave
>
>i've always heard that a scarf joint should be something like 5:1 or 6:1 to
>be effective. that's far from 45 degrees.
>
45 degrees is 1:1
if you're going to scarf them and want any strength, consider a scarf
the full length (or close to it) of the spindle. it'll look very cool,
be a lot easier to clamp and be about as strong as solid wood.
Larry Gallagher writes:
>I'm planning on making spindles for a project (an hourglass) out of two
>contrasting woods (maple & bloodwood, likely). They'll be on the order
>of 3/8", square cross-section. For visual aesthetics, I'd like to join
>them end-to-end with a scarf joint, cut at 45 degrees (if that actually
> >qualifies as a scarf joint?).
<snip>
Anything less than about 8:1 can hardly be called a scarf.
Forget a 45 degree cut, it won't work.
HTH
Lew
In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Gallagher <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm hoping to tap the collective wisdom for experience and/or pointers
>to web resources.
>
>I'm planning on making spindles for a project (an hourglass) out of two
>contrasting woods (maple & bloodwood, likely). They'll be on the order
>of 3/8", square cross-section. For visual aesthetics, I'd like to join
>them end-to-end with a scarf joint, cut at 45 degrees (if that actually
>qualifies as a scarf joint?). They'll be taking some light compression
>load as well as lateral load (figure people will pick it up by the
>spindles). My questions are:
>
>1) Will a 45 degree cut suffice for gluing the joint without additional
>reinforcements?
>
>2) Should I go for something like epoxy because of the quasi-end grain
>nature of the joint?
>
>3) I'm considering reinforcing this with a thin dowel along the long
>axis (completely hidden).
>
>I suspect my glue joint will hold up at least until I get it out of the
>shop, but may not survive much wear-and-tear. The interior dowel ought
>to hold, right?
>
>TIA,
>
>Larry
Regular yellow glue combined with the dowel should be good for this
application. IMO no way will the 45d butt joint be strong enough by
itself.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I'm hoping to tap the collective wisdom for experience and/or pointers to
>> web resources.
>>
>> I'm planning on making spindles for a project (an hourglass) out of two
>> contrasting woods (maple & bloodwood, likely). They'll be on the order
>> of 3/8", square cross-section. For visual aesthetics, I'd like to join
>> them end-to-end with a scarf joint, cut at 45 degrees (if that actually
>> qualifies as a scarf joint?). They'll be taking some light compression
>> load as well as lateral load (figure people will pick it up by the
>> spindles). My questions are:
>>
>> 1) Will a 45 degree cut suffice for gluing the joint without additional
>> reinforcements?
>>
>> 2) Should I go for something like epoxy because of the quasi-end grain
>> nature of the joint?
>>
>> 3) I'm considering reinforcing this with a thin dowel along the long axis
>> (completely hidden).
>>
>> I suspect my glue joint will hold up at least until I get it out of the
>> shop, but may not survive much wear-and-tear. The interior dowel ought
>> to hold, right?
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>
>
> Larry ,
> (1) Using just a scarf joint would work, but probably not for long.
> (2) I wouldn't rely on epoxy to solve the problem.
> (3) Adding a dowel would definately help.
>
> You have options here. I scarf joint/dowel is the easiest thing, but
> probably not the best. If you think you have the skills and/or material
> to practice on, I'd suggest one of these joints. They are aranged from
> about the easiest, to more difficult:
>
> 1 half lap (maybe even pegged with another contrasing wood?)
> 2. slot mortise and tenon
> 3. sliding dovetail (this might look real nice here)
> 4. finger joint
>
> There are other ways also, but these should get good results. --dave
i've always heard that a scarf joint should be something like 5:1 or 6:1 to
be effective. that's far from 45 degrees.
Thanks to everybody who replied to my questions. In the end I did dowel
this joint, and (knock on wood) so far so good.
I'm posting a picture of the finished project on a.b.p.w
Thanks again!
-Larry
In article <[email protected]>,
"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Larry Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm hoping to tap the collective wisdom for experience and/or pointers to
> > web resources.
> >
> > I'm planning on making spindles for a project (an hourglass) out of two
> > contrasting woods (maple & bloodwood, likely). They'll be on the order
> > of 3/8", square cross-section. For visual aesthetics, I'd like to join
> > them end-to-end with a scarf joint, cut at 45 degrees (if that actually
> > qualifies as a scarf joint?). They'll be taking some light compression
> > load as well as lateral load (figure people will pick it up by the
> > spindles). My questions are:
> >
> > 1) Will a 45 degree cut suffice for gluing the joint without additional
> > reinforcements?
> >
> > 2) Should I go for something like epoxy because of the quasi-end grain
> > nature of the joint?
> >
> > 3) I'm considering reinforcing this with a thin dowel along the long axis
> > (completely hidden).
> >
> > I suspect my glue joint will hold up at least until I get it out of the
> > shop, but may not survive much wear-and-tear. The interior dowel ought to
> > hold, right?
> >
> > TIA,
> >
>
>
> Larry ,
> (1) Using just a scarf joint would work, but probably not for long.
> (2) I wouldn't rely on epoxy to solve the problem.
> (3) Adding a dowel would definately help.
>
> You have options here. I scarf joint/dowel is the easiest thing, but
> probably not the best. If you think you have the skills and/or material to
> practice on, I'd suggest one of these joints. They are aranged from about
> the easiest, to more difficult:
>
> 1 half lap (maybe even pegged with another contrasing wood?)
> 2. slot mortise and tenon
> 3. sliding dovetail (this might look real nice here)
> 4. finger joint
>
> There are other ways also, but these should get good results. --dave
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:54:53 -0800, Larry Gallagher
<[email protected]> wrote:
>1) Will a 45 degree cut suffice for gluing the joint without additional
>reinforcements?
Not a hope. Stick a dowel in there.
You could also make it like a pool cue butt. Those are parallel
laminations, not scarfs (so no end grain problems) but because it's a
tapered spindle, you get the same visual effect.