RH

"Rob H."

15/07/2010 5:30 AM

What is it? Set 345

This week's set has been posted:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob


This topic has 26 replies

MK

Michael Kenefick

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 7:21 PM

1984 If those dowels were bigger / longer, I liked another respondents
answer of a brick carrier.

Rob H. wrote:
>
>> 1985 = One more fence tightener?
>
>
> The text on this tool says that it's a box opener, but the patent lists
> one of its uses as stretching wires and construction and repair of wire
> fences, so it turns out that your guess was a good one.
>
> Still not sure about the trough but the rest of them have been answered
> correctly:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/07/set-345.html#answers
>
>
> Rob

WK

Walter Kraft

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 12:38 PM

Am 15.07.2010 11:30, schrieb Rob H.:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1982 = Nailpuller
1983 = Bullettrap
1985 = One more fence tightener?

regards from .de
Walter

MK

Michael Kenefick

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 10:07 PM

I believe they lay bricks short end in. They can get 10 or so on the
holder. But the one I think I saw on TV / ???? had longer handles to
hold the tray steady.

dpb wrote:
......
>
> How would you propose to use it for the purpose???
>
> --

As

Ade

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 9:24 AM

[email protected] did gone and wrote:
>
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob

#1981 is a Signalman's Telegraph, used to communicate with the next
station or signal box. The indicators show whether there's a train on
the line (Line Blocked) or not (Line Clear). I'm not quite sure what the
purpose of the "on line" position is?

Here's a nice explanation of how a single needle telegraph works:

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/railway/single_needle.htm

I'd guess the principles behind this one are similar.

--
Cheers, Ade. http://meddlingmonk.blogspot.com

"Your face reminds me of a roadkill's arsehole. Certainly not on my list
of things to kiss." - http://sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com

AD

Andy Dingley

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 3:35 AM

On 15 July, 10:30, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/

#1981 Railway signalling block instrument

#1982 Patent nail puller. Patents are full of these, often with
attached and improved mousetrap.

#1983 Light fitting and funnel. Is there suction too? Moth trap?!
Looking at the construction though, they're expecting some tough
little beasties.

#1984 For holding lightweight round dowels, probably for marking them
out to length. Musical instrument making?

#1986 Patent code ciphering device?

Ds

Dave__67

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 5:28 AM

On Jul 15, 5:30=A0am, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Rob

1981 trolley-related as opposed to railroad?

1982

1983 bullet trap with target illuminator

1984 brick carrier?

1985

1986


Dave

AT

"Alexander Thesoso"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 6:44 AM

1981 This would seem to be a railroad block-signal control box, but... If
it dates to the 19th. century, I'm confused by the font used for the text. I
thought LEROY lettering machines came into use in the 20th. century.

1986 Telegraph enconder/decoder. The front pair of discs has 30 positions
for the plaintext, the rear pair has 30 positions for the cyphertext, and
there are 30 ways to align the front pair with the rear pair. This would be
used to encode commercial telegrams.



"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 7:46 AM

On 7/15/2010 6:44 AM, Alexander Thesoso wrote:
> 1981 This would seem to be a railroad block-signal control box, but... If
> it dates to the 19th. century, I'm confused by the font used for the text. I
> thought LEROY lettering machines came into use in the 20th. century.
>
> 1986 Telegraph enconder/decoder. The front pair of discs has 30 positions
> for the plaintext, the rear pair has 30 positions for the cyphertext, and
> there are 30 ways to align the front pair with the rear pair. This would be
> used to encode commercial telegrams.

Close--it's a Union Army cipher wheel from the Civil War, initialled
A.J.M. for General Albert J. Meyer, the Chief Signal Officer.

More information at <http://www.answers.com/topic/cipher-disk-1>.

> "Rob H."<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> This week's set has been posted:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
>

Mm

Mouse

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 8:20 AM

On 7/15/2010 6:35 AM, Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 15 July, 10:30, "Rob H."<[email protected]> wrote:
>> This week's set has been posted:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>

1983 microwave horn?

RH

"Rob H."

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 2:50 PM


"Walter Kraft" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Am 15.07.2010 11:30, schrieb Rob H.:
>> This week's set has been posted:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
> 1982 = Nailpuller

Yes, but it's a combination tool that was made for a specific purpose

> 1983 = Bullettrap

Correct

> 1985 = One more fence tightener?

Nope

BB

Bill

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 4:19 PM

Rob H. wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1986: A variation of a combination lock?

Bill

JB

J Burns

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 4:45 PM

Rob H. wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1984: The flimsy pegs contrast with the angle iron. I think it was
homemade. The angle iron was used not for strength but because it's
straight and smooth.

The pegs could be used to raise the end of the trough to a precise
height and make it precisely level across the corners. A ball held
against the center peg and released would exit the trough at a
consistent speed of about 3 feet per second. Does that sound like
billiards?

Perhaps two players constructed similar launchers so they could play
pool without the frustration of cues. Perhaps it was for the scientific
study of momentum and kinetic energy. I'd examine it for Galileo's
initials if I knew what his initials were!

RH

"Rob H."

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 5:54 PM


> 1982) Looks like a nice tool for disassembling shipping crates from
> around heavy objects like machine tools and such.


Correct, text on this tool reads "Mellor box opener No. 1", though according
to the patent it could also be used for stretching wires, driving and
removing staples and a few other purposes.


Rob

AT

"Alexander Thesoso"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 6:12 AM


"Ade" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> #1981 is a Signalman's Telegraph, used to communicate with the next
> station or signal box. The indicators show whether there's a train on
> the line (Line Blocked) or not (Line Clear). I'm not quite sure what the
> purpose of the "on line" position is?

Let me guess... This is a slightly more complicated version of the device
you reference, with a fail-safe mode. With the battery dead, or any wire
broken, the needle is in the 'Blocked' position. This is the state of the
device in the picture. When operative, enough current flows to produce an
'On Line' indication. A lot more current flow produces the 'Clear'
indication.

JB

J Burns

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 8:17 AM

Ade wrote:
> [email protected] did gone and wrote:
>> This week's set has been posted:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
> #1981 is a Signalman's Telegraph, used to communicate with the next
> station or signal box. The indicators show whether there's a train on
> the line (Line Blocked) or not (Line Clear). I'm not quite sure what the
> purpose of the "on line" position is?
>
> Here's a nice explanation of how a single needle telegraph works:
>
> http://www.samhallas.co.uk/railway/single_needle.htm
>
> I'd guess the principles behind this one are similar.
>

The explanation you cite says "up" was "dot" and "down" was "dash." The
system was named for Railway Telegraph Superintendent Charles Ernest
Spagnoletti in 1869.

RH

"Rob H."

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 4:43 PM


> 1985 = One more fence tightener?


The text on this tool says that it's a box opener, but the patent lists one
of its uses as stretching wires and construction and repair of wire fences,
so it turns out that your guess was a good one.

Still not sure about the trough but the rest of them have been answered
correctly:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/07/set-345.html#answers


Rob

dn

dpb

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 7:06 PM

Michael Kenefick wrote:
> 1984 If those dowels were bigger / longer, I liked another respondents
> answer of a brick carrier.
...

How would you propose to use it for the purpose???

--

LD

"Lobby Dosser"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 7:26 PM

"Michael Kenefick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I believe they lay bricks short end in. They can get 10 or so on the
>holder. But the one I think I saw on TV / ???? had longer handles to hold
>the tray steady.
>
> dpb wrote:
> ......
>>
>> How would you propose to use it for the purpose???
>>
>> --

DAGS a picture of 'brick hod". This is Not a brick hod.

JB

J Burns

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

17/07/2010 7:33 AM

Michael Kenefick wrote:
> 1984 If those dowels were bigger / longer, I liked another respondents
> answer of a brick carrier.
>
http://www.astm.org/Standards/G194.htm

This page says that to test the rolling resistance of a ball on a
surface, you make a ramp. Different ramps are used for different sized
balls. A ramp must match specifications if measurements are to be
meaningful elsewhere. For $38, you can order a document with specs for
the ramps.

I imagine such a ramp would look like 1984. Finished angle iron for a
standard surface. Wood pegs to release the ball from a specified
position, and, with paper shims, to raise the ramp to a specified height
and level the corners.

Ramps are also used to test billiard equipment, for example, whether
balls bounce off side bumpers in a precise and repeatable way.

RH

"Rob H."

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

17/07/2010 5:03 PM

> http://www.astm.org/Standards/G194.htm
>
> This page says that to test the rolling resistance of a ball on a surface,
> you make a ramp. Different ramps are used for different sized balls. A
> ramp must match specifications if measurements are to be meaningful
> elsewhere. For $38, you can order a document with specs for the ramps.
>
> I imagine such a ramp would look like 1984. Finished angle iron for a
> standard surface. Wood pegs to release the ball from a specified
> position, and, with paper shims, to raise the ramp to a specified height
> and level the corners.
>
> Ramps are also used to test billiard equipment, for example, whether balls
> bounce off side bumpers in a precise and repeatable way.


You might be correct with this guess but I think this is a one of a kind
item and thus we'll probably never be able to verify its purpose. I just
took another look at the email from the person who submitted it, a couple
details that I had forgotten to include - it's made of wood and the sides
measure 3".


Rob

JB

J Burns

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

17/07/2010 10:00 PM

Rob H. wrote:
>> http://www.astm.org/Standards/G194.htm
>>
>> This page says that to test the rolling resistance of a ball on a
>> surface, you make a ramp. Different ramps are used for different
>> sized balls. A ramp must match specifications if measurements are to
>> be meaningful elsewhere. For $38, you can order a document with specs
>> for the ramps.
>>
>> I imagine such a ramp would look like 1984. Finished angle iron for a
>> standard surface. Wood pegs to release the ball from a specified
>> position, and, with paper shims, to raise the ramp to a specified
>> height and level the corners.
>>
>> Ramps are also used to test billiard equipment, for example, whether
>> balls bounce off side bumpers in a precise and repeatable way.
>
>
> You might be correct with this guess but I think this is a one of a kind
> item and thus we'll probably never be able to verify its purpose. I
> just took another look at the email from the person who submitted it, a
> couple details that I had forgotten to include - it's made of wood and
> the sides measure 3".
>
>
> Rob

Uh-oh, I don't think ASTM would give specs for a wooden trough like that.

How about a stand for scholars to examine old diaries in a museum?
Opening one flat could damage the binding. A scholar might want access
to more than one old book at a time because information in one may help
him make sense of the other. Perhaps if there are two fragile books on
a table, they are safest if on the same stand. That could be why the
trough is so long.

The center peg might be for an eyelet in the end of a dowel or square
stick; perhaps laying a stick along the spine is the safest way to keep
the pages of an old book open.

DN

"DoN. Nichols"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 8:27 PM

On 2010-07-15, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/

Posting from Rec.crafts.metalworking as always.

1981) At a guess -- something for monitoring and regulating
the pneumatic devices once used for carrying paperwork around
large companies, and currently mostly used in drive-in bank
lanes.

So each of the two gauges would be indicating air pressure in
the lines -- one line for going in one direction, and one for
return packages.

1982) Looks like a nice tool for disassembling shipping crates from
around heavy objects like machine tools and such.

1983) First thought: A microwave horn (antenna)

No -- an old air raid style siren horn, looking at the detail on
the back.

With (for whatever reason) an electric light being reflected
into the horn. Or perhaps a screw-in electric heater element to
melt ice and snow out of the horn?

1984) Looks like something for rolling small balls down to get them
to a known velocity.

1985) A wrench for turning some form of ring to tighten or loosen it.

Based on previous items, I would guess that it is for the
couplings on fire fighting hoses, though it looks a little
awkward to handle in freezing weather when you need to do things
in a hurry.

1986) This is an encryption device (substitution cipher) a bit more
sophisticated than the "Sky King Decoder Ring" (or similar
things from that period).

In particular -- the alphabet is on two overlapping disks
(alternating fingers) which suggests that you can replace or
turn over one or both of the disks to change the sequence in
which the letters appear in a cycle. The same thing is done
with the substitutes, which interestingly enough appear to
consist of numbers built only from the digits '1', '5', and '8',
suggesting that any other digit can be used as a separator
between meaningful digit groupings.

Also -- the inclusion of some common letter groupings "ing",
"tion", "ly" and the '&' symbol makes the decoding a little more
difficult. An additional trick which appears to not have been
used would be to have two or three encodings for the letters
'e', 't', and perhaps 'a' (assuming that it was intended to
encode English, as suggested by the common letter groupings
included) would make decoding that much more difficult.

Since this top disc is "No 32", it suggests that where were at
least 31 other versions of just the top disc.

I wonder whether any of those discs were printed on both sides,
to reduce the physical size of a full set?

No doubt, if I knew what "A.J.M." signified, I could come up
with more detail -- but there are too many hits on that with
Google.

Now to see what others have suggested.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DN

"DoN. Nichols"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 8:31 PM

On 2010-07-15, Walter Kraft <[email protected]> wrote:
> Am 15.07.2010 11:30, schrieb Rob H.:
>> This week's set has been posted:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
> 1982 = Nailpuller
> 1983 = Bullettrap

This makes more sense than my previous suggestion of an air-raid
style siren horn -- and explains both the light socket, and the
protective angle iron in front of it -- illuminate the target, and
protect the light bulb from poorly aimed shots. Probably only for .22LR
at the most -- a more serious caliber would bend the support for the
light bulb protector.

> 1985 = One more fence tightener?
>
> regards from .de
> Walter


--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DN

"DoN. Nichols"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 8:42 PM

On 2010-07-15, Alexander Thesoso <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1981 This would seem to be a railroad block-signal control box, but... If
> it dates to the 19th. century, I'm confused by the font used for the text. I
> thought LEROY lettering machines came into use in the 20th. century.

It may be a lettering style common with Leroy sets, but zooming
in the ends of the strokes (e.g. the tops of the 'U' or the right ends
of the 'E') do not have the rounded ends provided by the pens used in
the Leroy sets -- which suggests that Leroy sets copied an earlier font
to the best of the ability of the pens.

> 1986 Telegraph enconder/decoder. The front pair of discs has 30 positions
> for the plaintext, the rear pair has 30 positions for the cyphertext, and
> there are 30 ways to align the front pair with the rear pair. This would be
> used to encode commercial telegrams.

Agreed -- other than I am not sure that it is Telegraph related.
Given that this was "No. 32" it suggests that there were other discs in
a full set, which would make the number of possible mappings between
plaintext and cyphertext much greater than your numbers would suggest.
(Of course the "No. 32" could be for keeping track of all of the
devices, so they could tell whether one was lost, and if so, whose. :-)

It is interesting, however, that the letters are all printed in
a single orientation instead of all with their bottoms to the center,
which would mean the as they are, they would be preferentially used in
the shown relationship for the top pair of discs. You would have to
keep rotating it to bring the letter involved upright at other settings.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DN

"DoN. Nichols"

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

16/07/2010 12:33 AM

On 2010-07-15, Don Piven <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 07/15/2010 06:46 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> Close--it's a Union Army cipher wheel from the Civil War, initialled
>> A.J.M. for General Albert J. Meyer, the Chief Signal Officer.
>>
>> More information at <http://www.answers.com/topic/cipher-disk-1>.
>
> And, interestingly enough, it seems to have been used most commonly with
> semaphore flags as its transport medium.
>
> http://cryptome.org/jya/cydisk.htm

This is intersting, because none of the examples seem to allow
for the double alphabet disks and the double number disks (with
alternate characters from the front or the next back disk) which appear
to be present with the one in the puzzle photo. I guess that it could
be that the tabs were bent forward or back and thus creased where they
attach to the disk body -- but this would not explain why they were cut
separately do the bottom of the characters to appear to form the
alternating tabs which I seem to see in the photo.

At least one of the links explains nicely why the numbers appear
to be mostly 1s and 8s. The linkage to flag telegraphy explains that
nicely

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DP

Don Piven

in reply to "Rob H." on 15/07/2010 5:30 AM

15/07/2010 5:31 PM

On 07/15/2010 06:46 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Close--it's a Union Army cipher wheel from the Civil War, initialled
> A.J.M. for General Albert J. Meyer, the Chief Signal Officer.
>
> More information at <http://www.answers.com/topic/cipher-disk-1>.

And, interestingly enough, it seems to have been used most commonly with
semaphore flags as its transport medium.

http://cryptome.org/jya/cydisk.htm


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