Greetings all,
I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the board
(not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were expecting
something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2 inch (or so)
chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off), and was
nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a $3.00
board).
Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager was
pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
Mike
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:00:40 -0500, GregP <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:40:36 -0500, Joe Bleau <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Or have you read about the number of people who have been killed at
>>Home Depot because of carelessly stacked shelves or lumber racks.
>>Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
>>anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
>>expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
>>accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
>>to keep to a minimum.
>
> Back in December I bought a cms saw at an HD. It took 15
> minutes to get it: it was at the top of a shelf in the middle of
> an aisle, so the employees had to clear out the entire aisle
> and block of the ends before they used a lift to get the saw
> down.
I had a similar experience this month at HF when I bought my bandsaw... they
closed off 2 aisles and used a fork lift and 3 guys...
I also noticed that the guy operating the lift (sort of a fancy pallet jack/fork
lift thingy) was belted to the lift with what looked like a dead man pin.. I
guess it's so if he falls of, the thing shuts off..
All 3 were wearing HF hard hats and lifting belts.. seemed like it was not only
safe, but over kill..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
lowes and HD are great for I need it now, I can't wait, it's like buying
something from the gas station, some things are sold at a good price, most
are not, I do like HD cull lumber bin though, lots of nice odds and ends
for next to nothing
Slowhand wrote:
>
> "X" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
>> furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange
>> sound.
>> As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the
>> board (not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were
>> expecting something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2
>> inch (or so) chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely
>> off),
>> and was nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a
>> $3.00 board).
>>
>> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
>> apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager
>> was pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>>
>> Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
> First of all, I doubt lowe's purposely placed the brad in the board. Do
> you
> expect them to check all of their lumber for brads? Accidents happen.
> Secondly, I highly doubt a brad would inflict much damage on your Forrest.
> I own forrest blades and have on occassion accidently cut through nails.
> No
> noticeable damage. That's what carbide tips are for.
>
> Long story short, such an instance would not keep me from shopping at
> lowe's
> or the borg. Just my opinion.
> SH
If you couldn't see the nail how would Lowes have seen it?
You need to get a "wizard" metal detector and check anything you're
going to cut. I think mine was $75.00 and it has saved jointer blades,
planer blades and.............you name it.
I bought some chestnut that came from an old barn recently and it
must have been the target for turkey shoots it had so much lead shot in
it.
Robert Smith
Jacksonville, Fl.
X wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not
for
> furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange
sound.
> As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the
board
> (not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were
expecting
> something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2 inch
(or so)
> chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off), and
was
> nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a $3.00
> board).
>
> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
> apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the
manager was
> pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
> Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
> Mike
"X" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings all,
>
> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
> furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
> As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the
> board (not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were
> expecting something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2
> inch (or so) chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off),
> and was nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a
> $3.00 board).
>
> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
> apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager
> was pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
> Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
First of all, I doubt lowe's purposely placed the brad in the board. Do you
expect them to check all of their lumber for brads? Accidents happen.
Secondly, I highly doubt a brad would inflict much damage on your Forrest.
I own forrest blades and have on occassion accidently cut through nails. No
noticeable damage. That's what carbide tips are for.
Long story short, such an instance would not keep me from shopping at lowe's
or the borg. Just my opinion.
SH
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:07:09 GMT, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>RE: Subject
>
>Biggest reason to avoid Lowes around here is location.
>
>They are all located in a shopping centers with traffic control patterns
>designed to insure that "you can't get there from here".
When I need anything that fits in a back pack, I prefer bicycling on
errands. My local BORGs all have lots as you describe, so I've got
another reason not to go there.
I'm lucky enough to have top notch electrical, lumber, door & window,
paint, hardware, plumbing, rental, lawn and garden, etc... specialists
in my town of 66,000.
My favorite paint store reports business as up in the two years of
having a Home Depot two miles away. He sees more total home
improvement dollars being spent since the store has opened. His
attractive store staffed with friendly people is located on the same
main road as the HD store, and he credits HD for his new out of town
customer base. The stores that are hurting honestly weren't all that
great before the HD. Others, like the locally based Electrical
Wholesalers chain, never cared for Johnny DIY before, so they could
care less about HD.
There are a few things HD and Lowes carry that I can't get without a
30 minute drive, like Porta-Nails flooring nails, siding, and the
occasional Sunday or 7 PM lumber.
Barry
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> As for location, one can only be located in one spot for any given
> store--if Amurracuns continue to look only at the short term effects of
> buying cheap imports, that will be all there is and service, if desired
> will <not> be. It's a choice.
You're right Duane, it's a choice. I don't think it's a problem here
though. There's a class of people who are happy with the cheap stuff or the
"convenience" of a big box store, but those are the folks that are now
getting exposed to things they were never exposed to before - therefore,
they become new members of a community that does things like woodworking or
home repairs on their own. As for the folks that kept the local hardware
stores alive in the past, or the folks that bought high quality tools
intended to last a lifetime, those folks are still out there, and still
buying from pretty much the same places they always did. It's a matter of
who's money is being spent on quality, and I'd argue that the same types of
people who have always spent on quality still are. At the same time,
there's a whole new field of people who either have always bought junk
because they don't use it alot, or who were never even a part of the food
chain in some of these areas, and now are - albeit at the low end.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
> > "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
> > > always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
> > > when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
> > > of Lowes or HD then.
> >
> > Well, we've had both around here for years now and the locals are still
in
> > business. Maybe you should report back when your fears become realized.
>
> How large a population base do you have?
>
> I can attest that in small, rural areas even a Wally-World and a branch
> lumber market (Meade Best Buy) effectively drive the locals out, then
> raise costs above what the locals in the even smaller communities are
> at...
In my immediate area Duane, it's very rural. In the surrounding area
(~30miles), Syracuse would be considered a small to medium sized city. It
was interesting to watch Wal-Mart come to the local community. There was a
faction that was crying doom and gloom. Largely they were led by a local
merchant who had held a monopoly in the grocery store space for decades. He
had his faction fired up predicting the failure of his store and every other
store in the area if Wal-Mart was allowed in. Within days of Wal-Mart
opening, his store closed. Really - it was that immediate. Clearly, he
wanted the store to close and Wal Mart was only an excuse. He was never
competitive in the old days and most people drove 20-30 miles to the bigger
regional chains for regular grocery shopping. He was part of a large co-op
and his prices were always the highest of the co-op member stores. He could
have been more competitive, but didn't want to.
At the time all of the hullabaloo was going on trying to stop Wal-Mart from
coming to town, I talked to the owner of the local Ace Hardware. Asked him
what his thoughts were on the whole thing. He told me that he went to Ace
HQ and asked them what he should do about Wal Mart moving in and if they had
anything to offer him to help battle them. To his surprise, they told him
that the best thing that could happen to his business is if Wal Mart or Home
Depot or whatever moved right in across the street. The fact of the matter
is these guys know what impacts their business better than any of us and
though it seems logical from one perspective to believe that the big will
swallow up the small, it's just not true.
Wal Mart has been in the neighboring town for about 4 years now and only one
business closed its doors. That business was the grocery store that I
mentioned earlier. Every other pharmacy, hardware store, convenience store,
grocery store, you name it, are still here and doing as well as before Wal
Mart came to town.
When businesses close it's not because the big guy came to town. They were
doing something else wrong for a long time and this was just the straw that
broke the proverbial camel's back. I bet if you think back on the opinions
of those local merchants you used to know, there was probably more grumbling
about price gouging, bad attitudes, etc. way back when, than there were
glowing compliments about how much everyone liked shopping there.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:42:41 -0800, mac davis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I also noticed that the guy operating the lift (sort of a fancy pallet jack/fork
>lift thingy) was belted to the lift with what looked like a dead man pin.. I
>guess it's so if he falls of, the thing shuts off..
That seems to be the SOP in the local stores here as well.
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
> ...
> > I'm quite certain that Denver is substantially larger than Syracuse.
It's
> > certainly less economically depressed.
>
> Of course, as noted, it's 360 mi or so and there's virtually nothing
> between...La Junta is about same size as here and that's it except for
> places like Kit Carson and smaller.
I was thinking about your statement about perspective - here rural is a very
accurate description of an area 30 miles away from any kind of city. Out by
you 30 miles isn't rural, it's just a ranch.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:55:05 -0500, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
> TeamCasa wrote:
>
>> The balls were lead but very hard for some reason. They were still round
>> and showed not deformation as if they were fired at the tree. All I am
>> sure is they nicked the blades up pretty bad.
>>
>> An old (muzzle loader) gun guy told me they sometimes mixed lead balls
>> with other metals for use in cannons. Maybe this was a cannon grape shot?
>
> There's something you can mix with lead to make it hard. Antimony? Tin?
> Bismuth? Something like that.
Yes, yes, and yes, in that order. Wheel weights are a pretty hard
alloy of lead, but aren't good for muzzleloaders where you _want_
that deformation (to expand to fit the rifling grooves). For that,
.22 bullets (recycled, obviously) are nice.
Dave Hinz
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:00:33 GMT, B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> People do make outlandish claims with no basis in fact. I seriously doubt
>> that HD does not care about people getting killed.
>
>
> Ed,
> You've never noticed the number over the entrance?
>
> Berlin, CT, has "225". I've been told this is the number of customers
> who have gone in and not come out.
>
> Stay away from stores with numbers like 10497 over the door!
Um, Barry? That's the "address".
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:51:14 GMT, B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave Hinz wrote:
>
>> Um, Barry? That's the "address".
>
> Just playing... <G>
Just checking...
More likely someone who returned some recently purchased boards. Not the
store. Buying any wood, its caveat emptor.
I once purchased 200 bf of birch 8/4, when doing the initial pass on the
jointer, WHACK! It turned out to be an old round ball bullet. Replaced the
jointer knives, re-tuned the jointer, purchased a metal detector, found two
more balls and merrily continued to make shavings.
Dave
"X" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings all,
>
> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
> furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
> As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the
> board (not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were
> expecting something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2
> inch (or so) chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off),
> and was nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a
> $3.00 board).
>
> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
> apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager
> was pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
> Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
> Mike
>
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Joe Bleau <[email protected]> writes:
>On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:46:54 -0800, "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote:
>And, the way it looks the same thing is going to happen with web
>purchases of tools. It seems that whenever I am looking for a good
>price through a web search I click on some so-called tool vendor and I
>find myself directed directly to Amazon. I believe they (Amazon) is
>using these fictituous names, i.e., ABCTools.com (made up name) to
>direct shoppers directly to them. Once they have the control HD and
>Lowes have you will see what will happen to prices.
Amazon offers a small percentage to websites who link to their website
when a sale is made through that link. Thousands of web sites have sprung
up hoping to make a few bucks by linking to Amazon's website.
Brian Elfert
Joe Bleau wrote:
...
> Slowhand, it's guys like you who are the dream of mass merchandisers
> whose sole interest is in sales per sq. ft. Of course they didn't
> deliberately put a nail in a 2x4 so they could wreck someone's
> expensive sawblade. But the point is that they are totally
> contemptuous of their customers.
...
That's certainly <not> true...but their customers are those who are
looking for ordinary items at cheap prices, just like those who shop at
Wally-World. As long as the mass market is enamored of thinking they're
saving a penny over their local independent, the large retailer will
thrive. They (the merchandisers) are quite interested in their
customers, it's that they have a particular class of customer in which
they <are> interested.
X wrote:
...
> ...It's just the thought that this sort of thing is done, probably by
> Lowes vendor.
You <must> be kidding!!!! You really think a wholesale mill is going to
go through and tack together a minor split in the end of a tubaX? What
parallel universe are living in? :)
Most likely it was done by another individual who then returned his
excess material after is project was over as another poster has already
postulated...it's <highly> unlikely it was done even by an over-zealous
Lowe's employee....
You're making mountains of molehills here...
The balls were lead but very hard for some reason. They were still round
and showed not deformation as if they were fired at the tree. All I am sure
is they nicked the blades up pretty bad.
An old (muzzle loader) gun guy told me they sometimes mixed lead balls with
other metals for use in cannons. Maybe this was a cannon grape shot?
Dave
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:03:09 -0800, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I once purchased 200 bf of birch 8/4, when doing the initial pass on the
>>jointer, WHACK! It turned out to be an old round ball bullet. Replaced
>>the
>>jointer knives, re-tuned the jointer, purchased a metal detector, found
>>two
>>more balls and merrily continued to make shavings.
>
> If that really was a round ball bullet it was almost assuredly a lead
> alloy of some kind, i.e. very soft. Did it really do anything to your
> knives? I can't imagine. There are woods harder than bullet lead.
>
> - -
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
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"CW" <[email protected]> writes:
>I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to the
>next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there I
>can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the small
>hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
I know a town of 12,000 where both hardware stores closed in the past
year. The nearest competitior of any size (little bitty lumber yard) is
12 miles away and the closest hardware store is 40 miles away. No Home
Depot or Lowes in town.
Brian Elfert
Kevin wrote:
>
> Bloomington, In has a really fine hardware store - Kleindorfers. They are on
> the west side of town. When I know what I'm doing, I buy at Lowes. When I
> don't have a clue, I buy at Kleindorfers. I pay for the experience and
> advice they are willing to share.
...
Unfortunately, by buying at Lowes you're probably hastening the time at
which you <won't> be able to buy at Kleindorfers. That's my complaint
-- too many people are too short-sighted to understand that the service
they want when they want it can't be there if they're not willing to
support it. :(
Around The Dallas Area there is Turner Hardware and Elliot's Hardware. Both
really great places. I can't take the check book in there unless my wife is
holding it!
Grant
Leon wrote:
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to the
> > next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there I
> > can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the
> > small
> > hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
>
> Exactly, I live in Houston. Houston has surrounded several small towns.
> Southwest of Houston is a small city called. Stafford. The only thing that
> separates them is the city limits line. In Stafford there is a Court's
> hardware. Court's has been around a long long time and is family owned.
> Court's is growing steadily and is cheaper than Lowe's and HD and every one
> there, probably 11 employee's, can point you or advise you correctly every
> time. HD and Lowe's has only sucked up the hardware stores that were
> destined to fail. There are at least 4 HD's and Lowe's within 15 minutes of
> that great hardware store.
Joe Bleau wrote:
> Back when there were still neighborhood hardware stores in America all
> you had to do was to go to any one of them to have a piece of glass
> cut to measure. Slowhand, have you tried to get a piece of glass cut
> lately at one of the borgs you are so fond of?
A Lowes finally opened up in my area last week. They have a booth near the
center of the store (enclosed in Plexiglass for safety reasons I imagine). The
sign on the booth indicates it's the glass cutting station.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
CW wrote:
>
> No doubt there are such places. There are many areas that don't have much
> need for a hardware store.
Why is that? Unless they're close to a metro area, seems unlikely there
aren't needs...
Problem is the cost of staying in business is just too much for a small
community to support, not that they don't have a need.
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Nova wrote:
> ...
> > A Lowes finally opened ...a booth near the center of the store ...
> > sign on the booth indicates it's the glass cutting station.
>
> ...
>
> And the chances of the "associate" standing in the booth having a clue
> of what he's up to is... ????
I really can't say as no one was buying glass while I was there but it
looked like they had a Fletcher glass cutter (
http://www.reuels.com/reuels/product11686.html) which isn't difficult to
operate.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Joe Bleau wrote:
> Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
> always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
> when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
> of Lowes or HD then.
Although Lowes has recently opened in my area Home Depot has been around for many
years. For their intended purpose I have no complaints with their methods of
operation.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Silvan wrote:
>
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, by buying at Lowes you're probably hastening the time at
> > which you <won't> be able to buy at Kleindorfers. That's my complaint
> > -- too many people are too short-sighted to understand that the service
> > they want when they want it can't be there if they're not willing to
> > support it. :(
>
> I agree completely in principle, but it's hard to pay anywhere from 40% to
> 300% more for the same stuff. It's also hard to drive all the way across
> town on the other side of umpty scadillion stoplights when Lowe's is only
> two stoplights away.
>
> When I lived in town, the situation was reversed. Better to spend 40% to
> 300% more and not have to drive all the way to the outskirts of town
> through umpty scadillion stoplights.
>
> Maybe the lesson here is that the hardware stores need to move out to the
> 'burbs and the outskirts and go where the other business is.
I've never found anywhere near that kind of price differential on the
<same> product between the Borg's and other retailers. In a lot of
cases, the Borq is like WalMart where the one or two lead items is
cheaper but be careful!--a lot of other stuff is at least has high if
not higher. If it's 300% cheaper there's only one reason--one is
Chinese-imported crap (unless there's a fire-sale closeout or some other
very unsupportable condition that's not sustainable in the long run).
As for location, one can only be located in one spot for any given
store--if Amurracuns continue to look only at the short term effects of
buying cheap imports, that will be all there is and service, if desired
will <not> be. It's a choice.
Nova wrote:
>
> Joe Bleau wrote:
>
> > Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
> > always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
> > when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
> > of Lowes or HD then.
>
> Although Lowes has recently opened in my area Home Depot has been around for many
> years. For their intended purpose I have no complaints with their methods of
> operation.
You're in a large enough population area to be moderately well-insulated
against the effect. Fortunate for you--you will probably continue to
have (at least slightly reduced) choice for the forseeable future.
Others is smaller markets such as here know full well the actual
consequences.... :(
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
> > always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
> > when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
> > of Lowes or HD then.
>
> Well, we've had both around here for years now and the locals are still in
> business. Maybe you should report back when your fears become realized.
How large a population base do you have?
I can attest that in small, rural areas even a Wally-World and a branch
lumber market (Meade Best Buy) effectively drive the locals out, then
raise costs above what the locals in the even smaller communities are
at...
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Nova wrote:
>
> > Although Lowes has recently opened in my area Home Depot has been around for many
> > years. For their intended purpose I have no complaints with their methods of
> > operation.
>
> You're in a large enough population area to be moderately well-insulated
> against the effect. Fortunate for you--you will probably continue to
> have (at least slightly reduced) choice for the forseeable future.
> Others is smaller markets such as here know full well the actual
> consequences.... :(
I agree. The Buffalo area has always been a competitive market. The "mom and pop"
hardware stores continue to survive because they have build their business by offering
specialized service filling a particular niche. While there have a few local hardware
stores close since Home Depot came to town they have closed due to a change in
demographics rather than the competition. About the only businesses affected by Home
Depot I can think of have been other "mega" stores (Builder's Square and Chase Pitkins
come to mind). With the opening of Lowes, from what I've seen so far, unless they get
their prices in line with the other stores in the area they are going to have
problems. Most people I know are not willing to play their price matching game.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> One of the things not widely known are the "tax break" deals cut by the
> biggies before they agree to open a store.
>
> At a minimum, no local taxes as well as they keep all the sales taxes
> collected for at least one year.
>
> All that just to gain access to the store payroll for income taxes.
>
> Lew
Usually when a tax incentive is given to attract a business the local media broadcast the
information. "Bass Pro" just signed a deal with the city to open a store in downtown
Buffalo and the amount the city is SUPPOSED to kick is was well publicized. I've heard of
no incentives given to Lowes.
The City Of Buffalo and The County of Erie (Buffalo is in Erie County) are in major
financial trouble. The Erie County executive just tried to push through a 1% increase in
county tax which would have raised the combined state/county sales tax to 9.25%, the
highest in the country. This was after blowing, IIRC, a $12 million surplus left the the
previous administration and squandering the millions received by the county from the
tobacco law suit. The attempt to raise the tax failed to pass this past Friday. The
county parks are now closed, county roads are not being plowed, county workers are supposed
to be laid off in droves and the department heads is taking the matter to the courts.
I sure hope Lowes wasn't given a tax break. There'll be public hanging.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Silvan wrote:
...an all too true lament for the old-timey store...
Yeah, there's one of those here, too....although in this one he won't
get up out of the chair she will and seems to have an uncanny knowledge
of where everything is, some of which has been there collecting dust for
50 years or more...it's the one place I go when needing an old whatever
it is because it will be the only place there's a chance. But, you're
right a lot of their new stock is the same as the Borg's since the only
distributors left are all the same ones... :(
There're a couple of farm supplies that still buy American for the most
part here (the Co-Op) primarily, and that's the primary place I go.
Somewhat more expensive for routine hardware, but not outrageous.
As for true "woodworking" supplies, there's no place in town for
anything other than some carpentry supplies...too small a market. But
that's not a new phenomenon.
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mike Marlow wrote:
> > >
> > > "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > > Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
> > > > always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
> > > > when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
> > > > of Lowes or HD then.
> > >
> > > Well, we've had both around here for years now and the locals are still
> in
> > > business. Maybe you should report back when your fears become realized.
> >
> > How large a population base do you have?
> >
> > I can attest that in small, rural areas even a Wally-World and a branch
> > lumber market (Meade Best Buy) effectively drive the locals out, then
> > raise costs above what the locals in the even smaller communities are
> > at...
>
> In my immediate area Duane, it's very rural. In the surrounding area
> (~30miles), Syracuse would be considered a small to medium sized city. ...
There's not a city within 400 miles of us that would touch
Syracuse...that hardly qualifies as rural in my estimation...It's a
point of reference thing. :)
Town here is <20k, no other place within 60 mi >5k (and only one of
those). The Wal-Mart in town draws from as much as 80-100 miles away,
but in doing so has decimated entirely the facilities in the small
communities and the independents in town... :(
The economic draw area is considered by the COC to be about 80 mi radius
(mostly west/south, there are a couple of slightly larger places 60 mi N
and 80 mi NE). The total population in that area is estimated at about
50k, tops. W/ recent agrinomics I expect that's optimistic.
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> So your county officials are throwing a hissy fit and punishing the
> voters?
Yup.
> Funny how when tax increases don't pass, it's the services most
> visible that get cut first, isn't it? Nobody would have noticed any
> decreases in staff at the county offices such as a few less clerks or some
> county officials having to share executive assistants or maybe some cuts in
> landscaping staff or other "non-essential" services.
The Country Executive came up with a "Green Budget" where everything was rosy with the added
penny in sales tax and a "Red Budget" where all necessary spending was axed without the
increase. It was proposed that the County Executive get rid of his chauffeur, county provided
personal car and his two assistants but that wasn't in either plan (okay, he did get rid of the
chauffeur but put him is a cushy job that pays more than the > $70,000/year he was making) .
> Nope, when the public
> refuses to go along with a tax increase, they want to show how shortsighted
> the move was by cutting where people will see it.
The public never got to vote on the matter. It was his own legislature that voted the tax
increase down. The Sheriff's Department, District Attorney's Office, County Department. of
Social Services, and I forget who else, are all planning on taking the proposed layoffs to the
courts.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > There's not a city within 400 miles of us that would touch
> > Syracuse...that hardly qualifies as rural in my estimation...It's a
> > point of reference thing. :)
>
> Guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, eh? Just exactly where is it
> you are from Duane?
>
Far SW KS...and I lied... :) It's actually just a little under 400 to
Denver which would be about Syracuse, I guess???
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
...
> I'm quite certain that Denver is substantially larger than Syracuse. It's
> certainly less economically depressed.
Of course, as noted, it's 360 mi or so and there's virtually nothing
between...La Junta is about same size as here and that's it except for
places like Kit Carson and smaller.
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mike Marlow wrote:
> > >
> > ...
> > > I'm quite certain that Denver is substantially larger than Syracuse.
> It's
> > > certainly less economically depressed.
> >
> > Of course, as noted, it's 360 mi or so and there's virtually nothing
> > between...La Junta is about same size as here and that's it except for
> > places like Kit Carson and smaller.
>
> I was thinking about your statement about perspective - here rural is a very
> accurate description of an area 30 miles away from any kind of city. Out by
> you 30 miles isn't rural, it's just a ranch.
:)
Well, just where in the hell WOULD you like to buy your two-ba-furs??
Chalk another one up for Lowes- even offereing to replace your blade-
class act!
-Dan V. in Indy
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:05:28 GMT, "X" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
>furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
>As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the board
>(not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were expecting
>something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2 inch (or so)
>chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off), and was
>nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a $3.00
>board).
>
>Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
>apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager was
>pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
>Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
>Mike
>
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:05:28 GMT, "X" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
>furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
>As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the board
>(not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were expecting
>something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2 inch (or so)
>chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off), and was
>nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a $3.00
>board).
>
>Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
>apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager was
>pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
>Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
>Mike
>
sounds like a non-problem to me... no blade damage and sounds like good customer
service, as some companies would have given you another 2x4 after waiting an
hour..
No harm, no foul??
Besides, Lowes is on my "great place" this month..
My wife offered to pick up a can of Johnsons wax for me.. looked at wally world,
k-mart, HD, OSH, etc., etc. and couldn't find it.. (she found me a can of some
strange white "non-skid" wax that I put on a high shelf, in the back)
I walked into Lowes and they had the wax (and more other waxes than I expected)
Cool!
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> There's not a city within 400 miles of us that would touch
> Syracuse...that hardly qualifies as rural in my estimation...It's a
> point of reference thing. :)
Guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, eh? Just exactly where is it
you are from Duane?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
> always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
> when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
> of Lowes or HD then.
Well, we've had both around here for years now and the locals are still in
business. Maybe you should report back when your fears become realized.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:03:09 -0800, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I once purchased 200 bf of birch 8/4, when doing the initial pass on the
>jointer, WHACK! It turned out to be an old round ball bullet. Replaced the
>jointer knives, re-tuned the jointer, purchased a metal detector, found two
>more balls and merrily continued to make shavings.
If that really was a round ball bullet it was almost assuredly a lead
alloy of some kind, i.e. very soft. Did it really do anything to your
knives? I can't imagine. There are woods harder than bullet lead.
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > One of the things not widely known are the "tax break" deals cut by the
> > biggies before they agree to open a store.
> >
> > At a minimum, no local taxes as well as they keep all the sales taxes
> > collected for at least one year.
>
> I have heard of local governments working tax advantage deals with a
company
> but I would be shocked if the store gets to keep the states portion of the
> sales tax collected. Oddly a Sam's Club moved 1 block about 4 years ago.
> Its new location is on 2 separate city lines. These two cities share the
> sales tax collected at the store.
>
>
Correct. I believe I have heard this discussion before and that it's
illegal to allow a store to collect sales tax and not pay it into the taxing
agency. That's allowing the store to tax people and that is illegal.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
So what do you want Lowes to do? Run every single board through a metal
detector? For what? To catch the errant nail in one out of a hundred
thousand boards? Then your $1.95 2x4 will cost you 4 bucks and you'll be
whining about the high cost.
They offered to replace a blade THAT WASN'T EVEN DAMAGED. That's stealing,
if you had taken them up on it (which I'm sure you would have if they could
supply a WWII).
Shit happens once in a while. Deal with it.
And I"ll bet you've been back to Lowes six times since this happened.
"X" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings all,
>
> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
> furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
> As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the
> board (not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were
> expecting something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2
> inch (or so) chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off),
> and was nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a
> $3.00 board).
>
> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
> apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager
> was pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
> Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
> Mike
>
Dave Hinz wrote:
>> There's something you can mix with lead to make it hard. Antimony? Tin?
>> Bismuth? Something like that.
>
> Yes, yes, and yes, in that order. Wheel weights are a pretty hard
> alloy of lead, but aren't good for muzzleloaders where you _want_
> that deformation (to expand to fit the rifling grooves). For that,
> .22 bullets (recycled, obviously) are nice.
Wellll, score one for Silvan. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> People do make outlandish claims with no basis in fact. I seriously doubt
> that HD does not care about people getting killed.
Ed,
You've never noticed the number over the entrance?
Berlin, CT, has "225". I've been told this is the number of customers
who have gone in and not come out.
Stay away from stores with numbers like 10497 over the door!
Barry
The usual threat around here is "without this new tax, we'll have to make
drastic cuts in education and law enforcement".
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:00:20 -0500, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> So your county officials are throwing a hissy fit and punishing the
> voters? Funny how when tax increases don't pass, it's the services most
> visible that get cut first, isn't it? Nobody would have noticed any
> decreases in staff at the county offices such as a few less clerks or
some
> county officials having to share executive assistants or maybe some cuts
in
> landscaping staff or other "non-essential" services. Nope, when the
public
> refuses to go along with a tax increase, they want to show how
shortsighted
> the move was by cutting where people will see it.
>
>
Just what I was thinking.
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:03:09 -0800, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I once purchased 200 bf of birch 8/4, when doing the initial pass on the
> >jointer, WHACK! It turned out to be an old round ball bullet. Replaced
the
> >jointer knives, re-tuned the jointer, purchased a metal detector, found
two
> >more balls and merrily continued to make shavings.
>
> If that really was a round ball bullet it was almost assuredly a lead
> alloy of some kind, i.e. very soft. Did it really do anything to your
> knives? I can't imagine. There are woods harder than bullet lead.
>
> - -
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
> always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
> when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
> of Lowes or HD then.
It may all have to do with the business mentality of the community and those
that run that run the stores. With in 7 miles of my house are 3 HD's, 1
Lowe's, 1 old fashioned lumber yard, and 1 old fashioned hardware store
that I frequent.
Since all have opened the oldest, the lumber yard and the hardware store are
thriving and enlarging. The Lowe's has become busier and the 3 HD's have
become less busy. Maybe the customers in the SW Houston are a smart enough
to see the difference. Don't blame the store, blame the community and
customers for what flies.
Nova wrote:
>I agree. The Buffalo area has always been a competitive market. The "mom and pop"
>hardware stores continue to survive because they have build their business by offering
>specialized service filling a particular niche. While there have a few local hardware
>stores close since Home Depot came to town they have closed due to a change in
>demographics rather than the competition.
One of the things not widely known are the "tax break" deals cut by the
biggies before they agree to open a store.
At a minimum, no local taxes as well as they keep all the sales taxes
collected for at least one year.
All that just to gain access to the store payroll for income taxes.
Lew
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:OKwQd.30925
> Just curious... at HD, how do you tell the difference between the cull
> lumber
> and the regular stock?
Regular stock has not been unbanded yet, after the bands are cut it can be
anyone's guess. :~)
In article <[email protected]>, Richard Clements <[email protected]> wrote:
>lowes and HD are great for I need it now, I can't wait, it's like buying
>something from the gas station, some things are sold at a good price, most
>are not, I do like HD cull lumber bin though, lots of nice odds and ends
>for next to nothing
Just curious... at HD, how do you tell the difference between the cull lumber
and the regular stock?
Last week, I needed thirty 2x4x8'. Got what I needed at Lowe's, setting aside
only three pieces that I didn't care for, to get 30 that I liked. A couple
days later, I discovered I had miscalculated, and needed 3 more. To get to
Lowe's, I have to go past an HD, so I stopped at HD first. Set aside nine
pieces with *serious* defects before finding one acceptable piece. After
setting aside ten *more* without finding another good one, I gave up and went
to Lowe's -- where the first three I picked up were just fine.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, Brian Elfert <[email protected]> wrote:
>"CW" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to the
>>next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there I
>>can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the small
>>hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
>
>I know a town of 12,000 where both hardware stores closed in the past
>year. The nearest competitior of any size (little bitty lumber yard) is
>12 miles away and the closest hardware store is 40 miles away. No Home
>Depot or Lowes in town.
Indeed, as CW says, the small hardware store is not *yet* extinct, but it's
sure headed that way. I live in a major city (Indianapolis, *in* the city, not
out in suburbia) and there is exactly *one* small hardware store (an ACE)
within four miles of my house. There used to be another ACE closer, but it
went belly-up three years ago; there were several mom-and-pops even closer
still, but they've been gone even longer than that.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
"Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike:
> If they can't get the blade, ask for an in-store credit for an equal
> amount. Say, $100.
> And then buy something in a package.
>
> Bob
>>
>>
Bob, since my blade is fine, I would feel guilty about taking anything from
Lowes. I still was able to use the board, so, I really did not suffer any
damages. It's just the thought that this sort of thing is done, probably by
Lowes vendor.
Mike
TeamCasa wrote:
> The balls were lead but very hard for some reason. They were still round
> and showed not deformation as if they were fired at the tree. All I am
> sure is they nicked the blades up pretty bad.
>
> An old (muzzle loader) gun guy told me they sometimes mixed lead balls
> with other metals for use in cannons. Maybe this was a cannon grape shot?
There's something you can mix with lead to make it hard. Antimony? Tin?
Bismuth? Something like that.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to the
> next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there I
> can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the
> small
> hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
Exactly, I live in Houston. Houston has surrounded several small towns.
Southwest of Houston is a small city called. Stafford. The only thing that
separates them is the city limits line. In Stafford there is a Court's
hardware. Court's has been around a long long time and is family owned.
Court's is growing steadily and is cheaper than Lowe's and HD and every one
there, probably 11 employee's, can point you or advise you correctly every
time. HD and Lowe's has only sucked up the hardware stores that were
destined to fail. There are at least 4 HD's and Lowe's within 15 minutes of
that great hardware store.
"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:46:54 -0800, "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote:
>
>
> Back when there were still neighborhood hardware stores in America all
> you had to do was to go to any one of them to have a piece of glass
> cut to measure. Slowhand, have you tried to get a piece of glass cut
> lately at one of the borgs you are so fond of?
Well, they don't offer massages, or haircuts, or teeth cleaning, or oil
changes either. What's your point? Oh, I'm getting the idea - you just
want to bitch.
>
> Or have you read about the number of people who have been killed at
> Home Depot because of carelessly stacked shelves or lumber racks.
> Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
> anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
> expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
> accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
> to keep to a minimum. Doubt what I'm saying? Juse do a google search
> and read about the people who have been killed in HDs. Probably at
> Lowes too. I just haven't done a search on Lowes.
Crackpot alert!
>
> The borgs were all about low prices when they were first taking over
> the country. Funny, you never hear about their low prices anymore.
> There are only two of them left and they either collude on price
> setting or they watch one another very closely. There's no real
> competition between them and the consumers are the ones who have been
> hurt by the phenomenon of big box merchandising. Occasionally I have
> the real pleasure of going into one of the few surviving old-fashioned
> hardware stores left in America.
Funny - I can go into one of several around me, anytime I want. In fact.. I
do. But - they don't, and they never did, offer exactly the same type of
things the BORGs offer. It's a matter of going to the place that offers
what you want, instead of pissing up a rope trying to build a case against a
merchandiser that you just don't like.
> Somehow the ones that have survived
> manage to offer their customers a real choice--several brands of most
> items. These borgs squeeze the vendors for the best possible deal in
> exchange for handling the vendors product exclusively. You, the
> consumer, don't end up with a lower price--you just end up with less
> choice.
You clearly just want to make shit up for the sake of pitching a bitch. If
you want to be taken seriously though, you should be a little more factual
and and lot less wrong.
> The price differential goes into the pockets of the borgs.
It's called merchandising. Guess what - the profit at your beloved local
hardware store goes into their pockets as well.
>
> I am really amazed at the naivte of people who defend HD and Lowes.
> Do they not know the meaning of self interest. If Teddy Roosevelt
> (the famous 19th C. trust buster) were around today we would see
> legislation to brings these merchandising monopolists under control
> because they are truly bad for the country.
Yawn.
>
> Just imagine the difficulty a small manufacturer turning out a really
> helpful and needed product would have in introducing his product when
> everything is controlled by just two retailers. Do you think this is
> good for you, the consumer, or for America?
It happens every day. You don't have much of an alarmist case here.
> But
> I am always amazed when I go into one of these well stocked, old
> fashioned hardware stores and find three times the selection in half
> the floor space.
Well stocked with a fraction of the selection. Be serious here - you can't
get three times the selection into half the floor space. No, in reality the
local place that you're talking about has a far more limited selection of
products to chose from, but it does reflect what will sell in his area.
He's limiting your choices to what will sell best for him instead of
including the second or third best selling options. That's fine - it's
taking care of his business. But good lord man, quite trying to paint this
villian versus hero picture here.
> These small operators know that they have to cater
> to their customers. Do you think the borgs give a damn? They do not
> and they will not so long as people accept their practices.
Correction - as long as people keep coming back and spending money there.
And they do. Of course we all know that people love to spend their money
where they don't get anything they want for their money - right?
> And
> judging from the favorable comments I read about them in thesre NGs I
> seem to be part of a definite minority. I know we can't turn the
> clock back and we can not fight progress but these borgs in no way
> represent progress--just greed and contempt for their customers and
> more than likely for their employees and their suppliers.
>
What a selective memory you have. I too have shopped at places other than
the big box stores and I continue to do so. In fact, I make my practice to
purchase primarily from local (small) merchants first and then go to other
sources as long as the price difference is within 10-15%. I just believe in
supporting the local business. I've also been around long enough to have
bought a lot from the local hardware store before the BORGs came into being
and the fact is you got screwed with high prices for tools and the likes,
big time before the advantage of volume purchasing came along. Those good
old days you're so fond of were not quite as good as you elect to recall
them being.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Unfortunately, by buying at Lowes you're probably hastening the time at
> which you <won't> be able to buy at Kleindorfers. That's my complaint
> -- too many people are too short-sighted to understand that the service
> they want when they want it can't be there if they're not willing to
> support it. :(
I agree completely in principle, but it's hard to pay anywhere from 40% to
300% more for the same stuff. It's also hard to drive all the way across
town on the other side of umpty scadillion stoplights when Lowe's is only
two stoplights away.
When I lived in town, the situation was reversed. Better to spend 40% to
300% more and not have to drive all the way to the outskirts of town
through umpty scadillion stoplights.
Maybe the lesson here is that the hardware stores need to move out to the
'burbs and the outskirts and go where the other business is.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Nova wrote:
> Usually when a tax incentive is given to attract a business the local media broadcast the
> information. "Bass Pro" just signed a deal with the city to open a store in downtown
> Buffalo and the amount the city is SUPPOSED to kick is was well publicized. I've heard of
> no incentives given to Lowes.
Around here, car chases get president.
The info posted came from a very reliable source that detailed
negotiations involving a Home Depot as well as an OSH store in the area.
I extended the info to include Lowes which I have not confirmed.
These days, they cut all kinds of deals to hustle additional business
establishments into the neighborhood these days.
HTH
Lew
I'd bet that the 2x4 had been bought and returned by someone, the same
someone who put the finish nail in it. --dave
"Richard Clements" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> lowes and HD are great for I need it now, I can't wait, it's like buying
> something from the gas station, some things are sold at a good price, most
> are not, I do like HD cull lumber bin though, lots of nice odds and ends
> for next to nothing
>
> Slowhand wrote:
>
>>
>> "X" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Greetings all,
>>>
>>> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
>>> furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange
>>> sound.
>>> As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the
>>> board (not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were
>>> expecting something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a
>>> 2
>>> inch (or so) chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely
>>> off),
>>> and was nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a
>>> $3.00 board).
>>>
>>> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
>>> apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager
>>> was pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>>>
>>> Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>>
>> First of all, I doubt lowe's purposely placed the brad in the board. Do
>> you
>> expect them to check all of their lumber for brads? Accidents happen.
>> Secondly, I highly doubt a brad would inflict much damage on your
>> Forrest.
>> I own forrest blades and have on occassion accidently cut through nails.
>> No
>> noticeable damage. That's what carbide tips are for.
>>
>> Long story short, such an instance would not keep me from shopping at
>> lowe's
>> or the borg. Just my opinion.
>> SH
>
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:24:33 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'll agree with you and raise you this thought. How many of
>the stores that close were already on the cusp of
>failure/were failing anyway and have used (insert mega store
>name here) as the scape goat?
Right! <G>
We had hardware, paint, lawn equipment, etc... stores that provided
rude crappy service at full retail before the BORGs. They're hurting
"because of the BORG".
The well-run stores, like my favorite paint and hardware stores, are
still doing well, and still collecting full-retail. The paint store
has added product lines, including high-quality woodworking finishes.
Our local John Deere dealer was a total dickhead to the typical
homeowner before the BORG, now he's struggling.
How many times have we heard a small business owner complain "the
economy killed my business"? Well-run business can weather a bump.
In fact, they can often take advantage of things like historically low
interest rates, and distributor sale prices, to grow, buy out their
landlord, etc...
Barry (who's two favorite tool dealers are across the street from
Home Depot and warehouse club stores)
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
> > "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > There's not a city within 400 miles of us that would touch
> > > Syracuse...that hardly qualifies as rural in my estimation...It's a
> > > point of reference thing. :)
> >
> > Guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, eh? Just exactly where is
it
> > you are from Duane?
> >
> Far SW KS...and I lied... :) It's actually just a little under 400 to
> Denver which would be about Syracuse, I guess???
I'm quite certain that Denver is substantially larger than Syracuse. It's
certainly less economically depressed.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:40:36 -0500, Joe Bleau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Or have you read about the number of people who have been killed at
>Home Depot because of carelessly stacked shelves or lumber racks.
>Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
>anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
>expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
>accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
>to keep to a minimum.
Back in December I bought a cms saw at an HD. It took 15
minutes to get it: it was at the top of a shelf in the middle of
an aisle, so the employees had to clear out the entire aisle
and block of the ends before they used a lift to get the saw
down.
Joe Bleau wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:46:54 -0800, "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote:
>
> Slowhand, it's guys like you who are the dream of mass merchandisers
> whose sole interest is in sales per sq. ft. Of course they didn't
> deliberately put a nail in a 2x4 so they could wreck someone's
> expensive sawblade. But the point is that they are totally
> contemptuous of their customers.
>
> Back when there were still neighborhood hardware stores in America all
> you had to do was to go to any one of them to have a piece of glass
> cut to measure. Slowhand, have you tried to get a piece of glass cut
> lately at one of the borgs you are so fond of?
They have glass?
> Or have you read about the number of people who have been killed at
> Home Depot because of carelessly stacked shelves or lumber racks.
> Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
> anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
> expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
> accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
> to keep to a minimum. Doubt what I'm saying? Juse do a google search
> and read about the people who have been killed in HDs. Probably at
> Lowes too. I just haven't done a search on Lowes.
Uh, after the Pinto bolt incident, they'd be nuts to have such a policy.
further, it's cheaper to stack safely than to pay liability premiums, which
the insurers _would_ raise if their inspections found that as a general
practice lumber was stacked unsafely.
Shit happens nonetheless. Especially when you have people working for low
wages driving forklifts.
> I was motivated to look into this after two store employes were
> carelessly stacking 5-gal roofing tar buckets and one of them fell
> from the top shelf and almost hit me. My trousers got sprayed with
> tar. I guess I could have demanded a new pair of trousers but having
> heard about their policies I decided the juice would not be worth the
> squeeze. Hell, they were old trousers anyway.
So some guy drops a tar bucket and it's a conspiracy? I take it you've
never dropped anything in your life. I suspect that if you'd talked to the
manager he'd have reamed the guy's butt for not blocking the aisle with the
little gates they provide for the purpose.
> The borgs were all about low prices when they were first taking over
> the country. Funny, you never hear about their low prices anymore.
> There are only two of them left and they either collude on price
> setting or they watch one another very closely.
If you have _any_ evidence that they are colluding on pricing I suggest you
provide it to the Federal Trade Commission. That is a very serious crime
and they _will_ go down for it if they are doing it.
> There's no real
> competition between them and the consumers are the ones who have been
> hurt by the phenomenon of big box merchandising.
Both do about the same sales volume on the same products, why would they
have different prices?
> Occasionally I have
> the real pleasure of going into one of the few surviving old-fashioned
> hardware stores left in America. Somehow the ones that have survived
> manage to offer their customers a real choice--several brands of most
> items.
I find that the Borg generally has more brands of most items than any of the
"old fashioned" hardware stores in the area ever had.
> These borgs squeeze the vendors for the best possible deal in
> exchange for handling the vendors product exclusively. You, the
> consumer, don't end up with a lower price--you just end up with less
> choice. The price differential goes into the pockets of the borgs.
Now let's see, the old fashioned hardware stores have "several brands" of
merchandise that you claim they can't get because of "exclusive" deals with
the Borgs. Yeah, right. What's wrong with this picture?
> And, the way it looks the same thing is going to happen with web
> purchases of tools. It seems that whenever I am looking for a good
> price through a web search I click on some so-called tool vendor and I
> find myself directed directly to Amazon. I believe they (Amazon) is
> using these fictituous names, i.e., ABCTools.com (made up name) to
> direct shoppers directly to them. Once they have the control HD and
> Lowes have you will see what will happen to prices.
Well, now, I don't see any of them undercutting Coastal or Tools Plus, so
again your conspiracy theory falls flat.
> I am really amazed at the naivte of people who defend HD and Lowes.
> Do they not know the meaning of self interest. If Teddy Roosevelt
> (the famous 19th C. trust buster) were around today we would see
> legislation to brings these merchandising monopolists under control
> because they are truly bad for the country.
Perhaps they are, but if the small local hardware stores had been doing an
adequate job they'd never have had a chance. I never went to Home Depot
because they were cheap, I went there because the guy down the street
didn't have what I was looking for and they did, and after a while I
started going to Home Depot _first_.
> Just imagine the difficulty a small manufacturer turning out a really
> helpful and needed product would have in introducing his product when
> everything is controlled by just two retailers. Do you think this is
> good for you, the consumer, or for America?
If it's helpful and needed then one or the other of the "just two retailers"
will see advantage in picking up the line and gaining a coup over the
other.
> However, I am not completely pessimistic. I see now an opportun ity
> for an enterprising entrepreneur to establish a quality, well stocked
> hardware store in major metropolitan areas. I have noted that there
> is usually one survivor in most large cities. Of course it is not
> going to be easy for them because the borgs will increasingly put the
> squeeze on manufacturers to obtain items at a cost so much lower than
> the small guy can get that they too will be finally squeezed out. But
> I am always amazed when I go into one of these well stocked, old
> fashioned hardware stores and find three times the selection in half
> the floor space. These small operators know that they have to cater
> to their customers. Do you think the borgs give a damn? They do not
> and they will not so long as people accept their practices. And
> judging from the favorable comments I read about them in thesre NGs I
> seem to be part of a definite minority. I know we can't turn the
> clock back and we can not fight progress but these borgs in no way
> represent progress--just greed and contempt for their customers and
> more than likely for their employees and their suppliers.
Sorry, but there's a difference between "defending the Borg" and buying into
a conspiracy theory. Saying that Hitler didn't burn Joan of Arc is not
"defending Hitler" but some would claim that it was.
> Flames will be cheerfully filed.
>
> Joe
>
>
>>
>>First of all, I doubt lowe's purposely placed the brad in the board. Do
>>you
>>expect them to check all of their lumber for brads? Accidents happen.
>>Secondly, I highly doubt a brad would inflict much damage on your Forrest.
>>I own forrest blades and have on occassion accidently cut through nails.
>>No
>>noticeable damage. That's what carbide tips are for.
>>
>>Long story short, such an instance would not keep me from shopping at
>>lowe's
>>or the borg. Just my opinion.
>>SH
>>
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Bloomington, In has a really fine hardware store - Kleindorfers. They are on
the west side of town. When I know what I'm doing, I buy at Lowes. When I
don't have a clue, I buy at Kleindorfers. I pay for the experience and
advice they are willing to share.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:P%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Brian Elfert
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >"CW" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >>I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to
the
> >>next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there
I
> >>can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the
small
> >>hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
> >
> >I know a town of 12,000 where both hardware stores closed in the past
> >year. The nearest competitior of any size (little bitty lumber yard) is
> >12 miles away and the closest hardware store is 40 miles away. No Home
> >Depot or Lowes in town.
>
> Indeed, as CW says, the small hardware store is not *yet* extinct, but
it's
> sure headed that way. I live in a major city (Indianapolis, *in* the city,
not
> out in suburbia) and there is exactly *one* small hardware store (an ACE)
> within four miles of my house. There used to be another ACE closer, but it
> went belly-up three years ago; there were several mom-and-pops even closer
> still, but they've been gone even longer than that.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>,
Brian Elfert <[email protected]> wrote:
> "CW" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to the
> >next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there I
> >can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the small
> >hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
>
> I know a town of 12,000 where both hardware stores closed in the past
> year. The nearest competitior of any size (little bitty lumber yard) is
> 12 miles away and the closest hardware store is 40 miles away. No Home
> Depot or Lowes in town.
>
> Brian Elfert
Aside from The Big Borgs... there is the Amazon effect.
In article <[email protected]>,
Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
> Kevin wrote:
> >
> > Bloomington, In has a really fine hardware store - Kleindorfers. They are on
> > the west side of town. When I know what I'm doing, I buy at Lowes. When I
> > don't have a clue, I buy at Kleindorfers. I pay for the experience and
> > advice they are willing to share.
> ...
>
> Unfortunately, by buying at Lowes you're probably hastening the time at
> which you <won't> be able to buy at Kleindorfers. That's my complaint
> -- too many people are too short-sighted to understand that the service
> they want when they want it can't be there if they're not willing to
> support it. :(
Hear! Hear!
Mom & Pop, brick & mortar made this place.
The biggest, privately owned lumber yard and hardware store took a
broadside from Home Despot when they first opened here.
Business went down 60%.. but 6 months later business mysteriously
recovered and HD had to let people go........
The smaller, local builders figured out that HD wasn't going to float
them for a few weeks till their projects were completed.
HD must have seen that coming, because this was one of the first
down-sized HDs this side of the border. The HD at the next town is twice
the size.
Their prices are nothing to write home about. The selection is so-so.
The staff is mostly part timers. The only thing that *I* go there
for.... is the odd Ridgid piece.
FWIW
Nova wrote:
>I agree. The Buffalo area has always been a competitive market. The "mom and pop"
>hardware stores continue to survive because they have build their business by offering
>specialized service filling a particular niche. While there have a few local hardware
>stores close since Home Depot came to town they have closed due to a change in
>demographics rather than the competition.
I'll agree with you and raise you this thought. How many of
the stores that close were already on the cusp of
failure/were failing anyway and have used (insert mega store
name here) as the scape goat?
Here in Da Falls we have an Ace Hardware (Neu's). The owner
wanted to sell the lot across the street from his store
(highway frontage) to Home Depot but the village wouldn't
let him onna 'count of access (it would have been a
nightmare/no really).
Home Depot did end up opening a mile(ish) away as did also a
Menard's. Neu's doesn't open on Sunday and they keep short
hours on Tuesday and Thursday. And guess what, all three
places are making money.
I was eventually disappointed that Neu's wasn't able to let
a Home Depot open across the street just to watch both stay
in business but I'm happy with the proximity/it serves to
prove a point.
UA100
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:00:20 -0500, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
... snip
>
>The City Of Buffalo and The County of Erie (Buffalo is in Erie County) are in major
>financial trouble. The Erie County executive just tried to push through a 1% increase in
>county tax which would have raised the combined state/county sales tax to 9.25%, the
>highest in the country. This was after blowing, IIRC, a $12 million surplus left the the
>previous administration and squandering the millions received by the county from the
>tobacco law suit. The attempt to raise the tax failed to pass this past Friday. The
>county parks are now closed, county roads are not being plowed, county workers are supposed
>to be laid off in droves and the department heads is taking the matter to the courts.
>
So your county officials are throwing a hissy fit and punishing the
voters? Funny how when tax increases don't pass, it's the services most
visible that get cut first, isn't it? Nobody would have noticed any
decreases in staff at the county offices such as a few less clerks or some
county officials having to share executive assistants or maybe some cuts in
landscaping staff or other "non-essential" services. Nope, when the public
refuses to go along with a tax increase, they want to show how shortsighted
the move was by cutting where people will see it.
>I sure hope Lowes wasn't given a tax break. There'll be public hanging.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
RE: Subject
Biggest reason to avoid Lowes around here is location.
They are all located in a shopping centers with traffic control patterns
designed to insure that "you can't get there from here".
Can't remember the last time I was in one.
It isn't worth the frustration of wasting all that time just to find a
place to park, much less stand in line to pay for your purchases after
making a selection.
Lew
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:47:19 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:OKwQd.30925
>
>> Just curious... at HD, how do you tell the difference between the cull
>> lumber
>> and the regular stock?
>
>Regular stock has not been unbanded yet, after the bands are cut it can be
>anyone's guess. :~)
>
LOL!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:59:11 -0500, Nova <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Joe Bleau wrote:
>
>> Back when there were still neighborhood hardware stores in America all
>> you had to do was to go to any one of them to have a piece of glass
>> cut to measure. Slowhand, have you tried to get a piece of glass cut
>> lately at one of the borgs you are so fond of?
>
>A Lowes finally opened up in my area last week. They have a booth near the
>center of the store (enclosed in Plexiglass for safety reasons I imagine). The
>sign on the booth indicates it's the glass cutting station.
Wait til they have driven the competition out of business. They
always open with a glass-cutting section. They give wonderful service
when they first open up. Repost in a year and tell us what you think
of Lowes or HD then.
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:05:28 GMT, the inscrutable "X"
<[email protected]> spake:
>Greetings all,
>
>I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
>furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
>As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the board
>(not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were expecting
>something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2 inch (or so)
>chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off), and was
>nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a $3.00
>board).
>
>Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
>apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager was
>pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
Have them send off the WWII for repair and/or sharpening (by Forrest)
and provide another blade for you in the interim. It's only fair.
----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
==================================================
I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to the
next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there I
can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the small
hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:46:54 -0800, "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote:
>
> Slowhand, it's guys like you who are the dream of mass merchandisers
> whose sole interest is in sales per sq. ft. Of course they didn't
> deliberately put a nail in a 2x4 so they could wreck someone's
> expensive sawblade. But the point is that they are totally
> contemptuous of their customers.
>
> Back when there were still neighborhood hardware stores in America all
> you had to do was to go to any one of them to have a piece of glass
> cut to measure. Slowhand, have you tried to get a piece of glass cut
> lately at one of the borgs you are so fond of?
>
> Or have you read about the number of people who have been killed at
> Home Depot because of carelessly stacked shelves or lumber racks.
> Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
> anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
> expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
> accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
> to keep to a minimum. Doubt what I'm saying? Juse do a google search
> and read about the people who have been killed in HDs. Probably at
> Lowes too. I just haven't done a search on Lowes.
>
> I was motivated to look into this after two store employes were
> carelessly stacking 5-gal roofing tar buckets and one of them fell
> from the top shelf and almost hit me. My trousers got sprayed with
> tar. I guess I could have demanded a new pair of trousers but having
> heard about their policies I decided the juice would not be worth the
> squeeze. Hell, they were old trousers anyway.
>
> The borgs were all about low prices when they were first taking over
> the country. Funny, you never hear about their low prices anymore.
> There are only two of them left and they either collude on price
> setting or they watch one another very closely. There's no real
> competition between them and the consumers are the ones who have been
> hurt by the phenomenon of big box merchandising. Occasionally I have
> the real pleasure of going into one of the few surviving old-fashioned
> hardware stores left in America. Somehow the ones that have survived
> manage to offer their customers a real choice--several brands of most
> items. These borgs squeeze the vendors for the best possible deal in
> exchange for handling the vendors product exclusively. You, the
> consumer, don't end up with a lower price--you just end up with less
> choice. The price differential goes into the pockets of the borgs.
>
> And, the way it looks the same thing is going to happen with web
> purchases of tools. It seems that whenever I am looking for a good
> price through a web search I click on some so-called tool vendor and I
> find myself directed directly to Amazon. I believe they (Amazon) is
> using these fictituous names, i.e., ABCTools.com (made up name) to
> direct shoppers directly to them. Once they have the control HD and
> Lowes have you will see what will happen to prices.
>
> I am really amazed at the naivte of people who defend HD and Lowes.
> Do they not know the meaning of self interest. If Teddy Roosevelt
> (the famous 19th C. trust buster) were around today we would see
> legislation to brings these merchandising monopolists under control
> because they are truly bad for the country.
>
> Just imagine the difficulty a small manufacturer turning out a really
> helpful and needed product would have in introducing his product when
> everything is controlled by just two retailers. Do you think this is
> good for you, the consumer, or for America?
>
> However, I am not completely pessimistic. I see now an opportun ity
> for an enterprising entrepreneur to establish a quality, well stocked
> hardware store in major metropolitan areas. I have noted that there
> is usually one survivor in most large cities. Of course it is not
> going to be easy for them because the borgs will increasingly put the
> squeeze on manufacturers to obtain items at a cost so much lower than
> the small guy can get that they too will be finally squeezed out. But
> I am always amazed when I go into one of these well stocked, old
> fashioned hardware stores and find three times the selection in half
> the floor space. These small operators know that they have to cater
> to their customers. Do you think the borgs give a damn? They do not
> and they will not so long as people accept their practices. And
> judging from the favorable comments I read about them in thesre NGs I
> seem to be part of a definite minority. I know we can't turn the
> clock back and we can not fight progress but these borgs in no way
> represent progress--just greed and contempt for their customers and
> more than likely for their employees and their suppliers.
>
> Flames will be cheerfully filed.
>
> Joe
>
>
> >
> >First of all, I doubt lowe's purposely placed the brad in the board. Do
you
> >expect them to check all of their lumber for brads? Accidents happen.
> >Secondly, I highly doubt a brad would inflict much damage on your
Forrest.
> >I own forrest blades and have on occassion accidently cut through nails.
No
> >noticeable damage. That's what carbide tips are for.
> >
> >Long story short, such an instance would not keep me from shopping at
lowe's
> >or the borg. Just my opinion.
> >SH
> >
>
Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> So your county officials are throwing a hissy fit and punishing the
> voters? Funny how when tax increases don't pass, it's the services most
> visible that get cut first, isn't it? Nobody would have noticed any
> decreases in staff at the county offices such as a few less clerks or some
> county officials having to share executive assistants or maybe some cuts in
> landscaping staff or other "non-essential" services. Nope, when the public
> refuses to go along with a tax increase, they want to show how shortsighted
> the move was by cutting where people will see it.
>
You hit the nail on the head. In California this is the norm. In LA
County they say that they can't afford to keep the prisoners in jail and
they start to let them out early, and then blame the voters when they
commit more crimes. On recent releasee just got re-arrested for
murdering his ex and, I can't recall if the second murder was his mother
or hers.
Whichever, you are right, they do go for the most visible and essential
programs.
Glen
> Greetings all,
> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head
> a strange sound. As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the board (not visible from the outside of the
> board, unless you were expecting something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2 inch (or so) chunk of the end of
> the board had split (not completely off), and was nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a $3.00 board).
> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but
> the manager was pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade. Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
> Mike
>
Frankly you COULD take them to small claims court for it, and make them pay
for the court fees too! That would "URKE" the living shit out of me...!
--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:37:03 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>> Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
>>> anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
>>> expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
>>> accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
>>> to keep to a minimum.
>
>People do make outlandish claims with no basis in fact. I seriously doubt
>that HD does not care about people getting killed.
>
>
for sure.. the cost of saving a few hours a day x a few employees is peanuts
compared to one law suit..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:46:54 -0800, "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote:
Slowhand, it's guys like you who are the dream of mass merchandisers
whose sole interest is in sales per sq. ft. Of course they didn't
deliberately put a nail in a 2x4 so they could wreck someone's
expensive sawblade. But the point is that they are totally
contemptuous of their customers.
Back when there were still neighborhood hardware stores in America all
you had to do was to go to any one of them to have a piece of glass
cut to measure. Slowhand, have you tried to get a piece of glass cut
lately at one of the borgs you are so fond of?
Or have you read about the number of people who have been killed at
Home Depot because of carelessly stacked shelves or lumber racks.
Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
to keep to a minimum. Doubt what I'm saying? Juse do a google search
and read about the people who have been killed in HDs. Probably at
Lowes too. I just haven't done a search on Lowes.
I was motivated to look into this after two store employes were
carelessly stacking 5-gal roofing tar buckets and one of them fell
from the top shelf and almost hit me. My trousers got sprayed with
tar. I guess I could have demanded a new pair of trousers but having
heard about their policies I decided the juice would not be worth the
squeeze. Hell, they were old trousers anyway.
The borgs were all about low prices when they were first taking over
the country. Funny, you never hear about their low prices anymore.
There are only two of them left and they either collude on price
setting or they watch one another very closely. There's no real
competition between them and the consumers are the ones who have been
hurt by the phenomenon of big box merchandising. Occasionally I have
the real pleasure of going into one of the few surviving old-fashioned
hardware stores left in America. Somehow the ones that have survived
manage to offer their customers a real choice--several brands of most
items. These borgs squeeze the vendors for the best possible deal in
exchange for handling the vendors product exclusively. You, the
consumer, don't end up with a lower price--you just end up with less
choice. The price differential goes into the pockets of the borgs.
And, the way it looks the same thing is going to happen with web
purchases of tools. It seems that whenever I am looking for a good
price through a web search I click on some so-called tool vendor and I
find myself directed directly to Amazon. I believe they (Amazon) is
using these fictituous names, i.e., ABCTools.com (made up name) to
direct shoppers directly to them. Once they have the control HD and
Lowes have you will see what will happen to prices.
I am really amazed at the naivte of people who defend HD and Lowes.
Do they not know the meaning of self interest. If Teddy Roosevelt
(the famous 19th C. trust buster) were around today we would see
legislation to brings these merchandising monopolists under control
because they are truly bad for the country.
Just imagine the difficulty a small manufacturer turning out a really
helpful and needed product would have in introducing his product when
everything is controlled by just two retailers. Do you think this is
good for you, the consumer, or for America?
However, I am not completely pessimistic. I see now an opportun ity
for an enterprising entrepreneur to establish a quality, well stocked
hardware store in major metropolitan areas. I have noted that there
is usually one survivor in most large cities. Of course it is not
going to be easy for them because the borgs will increasingly put the
squeeze on manufacturers to obtain items at a cost so much lower than
the small guy can get that they too will be finally squeezed out. But
I am always amazed when I go into one of these well stocked, old
fashioned hardware stores and find three times the selection in half
the floor space. These small operators know that they have to cater
to their customers. Do you think the borgs give a damn? They do not
and they will not so long as people accept their practices. And
judging from the favorable comments I read about them in thesre NGs I
seem to be part of a definite minority. I know we can't turn the
clock back and we can not fight progress but these borgs in no way
represent progress--just greed and contempt for their customers and
more than likely for their employees and their suppliers.
Flames will be cheerfully filed.
Joe
>
>First of all, I doubt lowe's purposely placed the brad in the board. Do you
>expect them to check all of their lumber for brads? Accidents happen.
>Secondly, I highly doubt a brad would inflict much damage on your Forrest.
>I own forrest blades and have on occassion accidently cut through nails. No
>noticeable damage. That's what carbide tips are for.
>
>Long story short, such an instance would not keep me from shopping at lowe's
>or the borg. Just my opinion.
>SH
>
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> One of the things not widely known are the "tax break" deals cut by the
> biggies before they agree to open a store.
>
> At a minimum, no local taxes as well as they keep all the sales taxes
> collected for at least one year.
I have heard of local governments working tax advantage deals with a company
but I would be shocked if the store gets to keep the states portion of the
sales tax collected. Oddly a Sam's Club moved 1 block about 4 years ago.
Its new location is on 2 separate city lines. These two cities share the
sales tax collected at the store.
Leon wrote:
> sales tax collected. Oddly a Sam's Club moved 1 block about 4 years ago.
> Its new location is on 2 separate city lines. These two cities share the
> sales tax collected at the store.
You must live in Pennsylvania.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
On 16 Feb 2005 10:50:39 GMT, Brian Elfert <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Amazon offers a small percentage to websites who link to their website
>when a sale is made through that link. Thousands of web sites have sprung
>up hoping to make a few bucks by linking to Amazon's website.
>
>Brian Elfert
So, that explains it. Thanks for letting me know. But, isn't the
effect still the same--isn't the movement toward monopoly with one or
two retailers having such power over the manufacturer that they can
set the price and their profit margins?
Joe
No doubt there are such places. There are many areas that don't have much
need for a hardware store.
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "CW" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >I live in a very small town (2000). If I want anything I have to go to
the
> >next town population about 35000. There are three hardware stores there I
> >can think of off hand and yes, there is also a Lowes. Your idea of the
small
> >hardware store being almost extinct is bull.
>
> I know a town of 12,000 where both hardware stores closed in the past
> year. The nearest competitior of any size (little bitty lumber yard) is
> 12 miles away and the closest hardware store is 40 miles away. No Home
> Depot or Lowes in town.
>
> Brian Elfert
Get a Lumber Wizard III. It will easily and quickly detect metal in
wood. Any wood may have embedded metal in it.
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:05:28 GMT, "X" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
>furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
>As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the board
>(not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were expecting
>something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2 inch (or so)
>chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off), and was
>nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a $3.00
>board).
>
>Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
>apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager was
>pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
>Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
>Mike
>
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:03:09 -0800, "TeamCasa" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I once purchased 200 bf of birch 8/4, when doing the initial pass on the
>>jointer, WHACK! It turned out to be an old round ball bullet. Replaced
>>the
>>jointer knives, re-tuned the jointer, purchased a metal detector, found
>>two
>>more balls and merrily continued to make shavings.
>
> If that really was a round ball bullet it was almost assuredly a lead
> alloy of some kind, i.e. very soft. Did it really do anything to your
> knives? I can't imagine. There are woods harder than bullet lead.
If it was still a ball shape it may not have been as soft as you suspect.
In my younger days I case my own wad cutter lead bullets melted down from
old wheel weights and reloaded. The bullet would typically mushroom on
impact when using a light powder load.
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>> sales tax collected. Oddly a Sam's Club moved 1 block about 4 years ago.
>> Its new location is on 2 separate city lines. These two cities share the
>> sales tax collected at the store.
>
> You must live in Pennsylvania.
SW side of Houston, Tx. About a stones throw from Sugar Land, Stafford, and
Meadows Place city limits.
"X" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings all,
>
> I recently bought a couple of "Top Choice" 2x4's from Lowes. (No not for
> furniture). While I was ripping one of the boards I head a strange sound.
> As it turns out, there was a 15 or 16 ga finish nail embedded in the
> board (not visible from the outside of the board, unless you were
> expecting something like that and were looking for it). It looks like a 2
> inch (or so) chunk of the end of the board had split (not completely off),
> and was nailed back in place. The things some people will do to save a
> $3.00 board).
>
> Fortunately I did not notice any damage to my WWII. Lowes was very
> apologetic, and offered to "try and replace the blade", but the manager
> was pretty sure they could not get a Forrest blade.
>
> Anyway, just another reason to stay away from the Borgs.
>
> Mike
Mike:
If they can't get the blade, ask for an in-store credit for an equal amount.
Say, $100.
And then buy something in a package.
Bob
>
>
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The usual threat around here is "without this new tax, we'll have to make
> drastic cuts in education and law enforcement".
>
Our town usually threatens to dump school sports. One town near us actually
did and the parents paid up for it, as they should.
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> As for location, one can only be located in one spot for any given
> store--if Amurracuns continue to look only at the short term effects of
> buying cheap imports, that will be all there is and service, if desired
> will <not> be. It's a choice.
I don't have enough real numbers to argue hard on the price issues at the
moment, but I can argue the imports issues. It's a question of sending
money to China by way of North Wilkesboro, NC, or sending money to China by
way of Mom & Pop. It's not like the local place only sells American stuff.
They sell the same imported crap everybody else does, at higher prices, in
packaging with different colors on it.
The only reason I shop there is for their overpriced, marginal quality, but
handily available lumber. That's the same justification I've heard lots of
folks use for shopping at Lowe's, incidentally. Other than lumber, this
place is basically the same as Lowe's, except dark, dusty, dirty, and
disorganized. If they have stuff Lowe's doesn't carry, I have no idea
where the hell it is in that mess anyway. And as for the help, they're all
retired guys who stand around talking about fishing. There can be four of
them standing there, and nobody will ever ask me if I need help. If I ask
one of them, they play round robin ask Bill ask Ted ask Jimmy and it takes
half an hour to find what I'm looking for. This sounds a lot like Lowe's
too.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Some have claimed that HD has a deliberately policy of not doing
>> anything about stacking shelves safely because it would be more
>> expensive for them to do this than to pay out the numerous death and
>> accident claims which they use every trick in their lawyers' arsenal
>> to keep to a minimum.
People do make outlandish claims with no basis in fact. I seriously doubt
that HD does not care about people getting killed.