lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
unsafe
my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
but once in a while when i am cutting the thickest wood it can cut the
blade guard gets in the way
without the guard i make the cut and i am done
with the guard i have to grab and hold the guard which takes away
my concentration of the more important work
read an article where a test pilot died in a cirrus recently
the cirrus planes all have airframe parachutes
glass cockpit and airframe parachute are the two dominant features
but it turns out that there have still been quite a few fatalities in
the plane
and the plane has a higher rate of incidents that similar planes from
other plane makers
pretty clear that safety features actually provide a false sense of
safety where proper training and techniques take a backseat
some people should not
operate dangerous machinery
drive cars
fly airplanes
In article <[email protected]>,
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 3:43:49 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> > lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> > unsafe
> >
> > my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
> >
> > but once in a while when i am cutting the thickest wood it can cut the
> > blade guard gets in the way
> >
> > without the guard i make the cut and i am done
> >
> > with the guard i have to grab and hold the guard which takes away
> > my concentration of the more important work
> >
> > read an article where a test pilot died in a cirrus recently
> >
> > the cirrus planes all have airframe parachutes
> >
> > glass cockpit and airframe parachute are the two dominant features
> >
> > but it turns out that there have still been quite a few fatalities in
> > the plane
> >
> > and the plane has a higher rate of incidents that similar planes from
> > other plane makers
> >
> >
> > pretty clear that safety features actually provide a false sense of
> > safety where proper training and techniques take a backseat
> >
> > some people should not
> >
> > operate dangerous machinery
> > drive cars
> > fly airplanes
>
> i think that
>
> you
>
> raise some
>
> points that make
>
> sense
>
> and should
>
> be
>
> discussed in more detail
>
> with an
>
> eye towards improving the efficiency
>
> of
>
> our
>
> tools
>
> without sacrificing our
>
> safety
>
> let us continue the
>
> discussion and possibly
>
> come up
>
> with
>
> suggestions that can
>
> help resolve the
>
> issues that you
>
> point out
i
really
should
not
have
had
coffee
in
my
mouth
when
i
read
your
response
to
the
comet
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:21:36 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> > On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
>> >> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>> >>> unsafe
>> >>
>> >> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
>> >>
>> >> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
>> >>
>> >> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
>> >>
>> >> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
>> >> else cut their food
>> >
>> > Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
>> > nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
>> > happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
>>
>> And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
>> > look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
>> > hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
>> > propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
>> > suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
>> > auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
>> > essentially ZERO.
>>
>> If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
>> really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
>>
>
>That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room, then walking
>halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic tells us that I will never reach
>the other side.
>
>So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway down. Some time
>later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then halfway down from *that* point, etc.
>
>Sounds to me like I'll never hit the ground.
The best one I heard was the mathemetition, the engineer, and the
model. The mathmetician sat on the opposite end of the park bench
from the model. After a few minutes, he moved half way towards here.
A few minutes later, he moved half again the distance towards her. He
then got up and went home, figuring that the whole thing was hopeless.
He could never reach the mode.
The engineer then sat down where the mathmetician was. He then moved
half the distance towards here. A few minutes later he moved half
again the distance. The engineer didn't give up, knowing that pretty
soon he'd be close enough.
On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 3:43:49 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> unsafe
>
> my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>
> but once in a while when i am cutting the thickest wood it can cut the
> blade guard gets in the way
>
> without the guard i make the cut and i am done
>
> with the guard i have to grab and hold the guard which takes away
> my concentration of the more important work
>
> read an article where a test pilot died in a cirrus recently
>
> the cirrus planes all have airframe parachutes
>
> glass cockpit and airframe parachute are the two dominant features
>
> but it turns out that there have still been quite a few fatalities in
> the plane
>
> and the plane has a higher rate of incidents that similar planes from
> other plane makers
>
>
> pretty clear that safety features actually provide a false sense of
> safety where proper training and techniques take a backseat
>
> some people should not
>
> operate dangerous machinery
> drive cars
> fly airplanes
i think that
you
raise some
points that make
sense
and should
be
discussed in more detail
with an
eye towards improving the efficiency
of
our
tools
without sacrificing our
safety
let us continue the
discussion and possibly
come up
with
suggestions that can
help resolve the
issues that you
point out
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 20:52:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 22:27:20 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 19:27:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Feb 2017
>>>12:43:19 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>
>>>>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>>>unsafe
>>>>
>>>>my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>>>
>>> I've a circular saw with a safety switch on the handle - right
>>>where I could reach it if my thumb were a half inch longer. Result is
>>>that I have to hold the trigger with one hand while pressing the
>>>safety interlock with the other hand, while moving the saw guard with
>>>the third hand.
>>
>>Old thread,
>
> Not near as old as some.
True but it was discussed at length then.
> I just downloaded 660,000 headers, going back to 2003.
>>but I had a circular saw that the trigger lock was right
>>where the thumb rested.
>>
>>> I'm looking for a new circ saw.
>>
>>Trashed it long ago.
On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 2:11:17 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > The best one I heard was the mathemetition, the engineer, and the
> > model. The mathmetician sat on the opposite end of the park bench
> > from the model. After a few minutes, he moved half way towards here.
> > A few minutes later, he moved half again the distance towards her. He
> > then got up and went home, figuring that the whole thing was hopeless.
> > He could never reach the mode.
> >
> > The engineer then sat down where the mathmetician was. He then moved
> > half the distance towards here. A few minutes later he moved half
> > again the distance. The engineer didn't give up, knowing that pretty
> > soon he'd be close enough.
>
> I'd explain what I was doing and invite her to join me. We'd both move
> half the distance to each other and get the whole thing done in one move.
> :-)
She would have already come over to me.
>
> A man can dream...
>
> Puckdropper
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 21:53:21 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 2:43:49 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote:
>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>> unsafe
>>
>> my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>>
>> but once in a while when i am cutting the thickest wood it can cut the
>> blade guard gets in the way
>>
>> without the guard i make the cut and i am done
>>
>> with the guard i have to grab and hold the guard which takes away
>> my concentration of the more important work
>>
>> read an article where a test pilot died in a cirrus recently
>>
>> the cirrus planes all have airframe parachutes
>>
>> glass cockpit and airframe parachute are the two dominant features
>>
>> but it turns out that there have still been quite a few fatalities in
>> the plane
>>
>> and the plane has a higher rate of incidents that similar planes from
>> other plane makers
>>
>>
>> pretty clear that safety features actually provide a false sense of
>> safety where proper training and techniques take a backseat
>>
>> some people should not
>>
>> operate dangerous machinery
>> drive cars
>> fly airplanes
>
>I'd be curious to know if the manual for the saw gives instructions for proper guard adjustment...
as far as the cirrus safety is concerned, a ballistic recovery chute
does NOTHING for safety except in the case of catastrophic airframe
failure, or possibly engine failure over hostile terrain, and only
above a rather significant hight. Deploying the chute at 500 feet
isn't going to do much, and having the chute does NOTHING for turn and
stall accidents on approach or takeoff, nor for wind shear or wake
turbulence issues on takeoff or landing, nor for "controlled flight
into terrain". Ditto for engine failure on takeoff. The chute is no
substitute for the brains between the pilot's headset. It's also a
pretty hot little plane - and the chute is no substitute for flying
experience - just like the problem with the "fork tailed doctor /
lawyer killer" the Beach Bonanza. Perfectly good high performance
plane, but like a lot of fancy cars, owned predominently by those who
are too busy making money to become or stay profficient in it's
operation
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room,
> then walking halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic
> tells us that I will never reach the other side.
>
> So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway
> down. Some time later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then
> halfway down from *that* point, etc.
>
> Sounds to me like I'll never hit the ground.
Cold welding blows that completly out of the water. You take two
surfaces that are so smooth that they join together and never are
released. To get there, you could keep on refining the surface so it's
all within a thou, then a tenth, then a tenth of a tenth and so on.
Eventually you hit that point and bam! welded.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
notbob <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> On 2017-02-10, Puckdropper <puckdropper> wrote:
>
>> Eventually you hit that point and bam! welded.
>
> Howzabout Jo blocks?
>
> nb
It's pretty cool how they do that. Wikipedia has a picture of 36 of them
stacked together and supporting themselves as they stick out from the hand
of the guy holding them.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> The best one I heard was the mathemetition, the engineer, and the
> model. The mathmetician sat on the opposite end of the park bench
> from the model. After a few minutes, he moved half way towards here.
> A few minutes later, he moved half again the distance towards her. He
> then got up and went home, figuring that the whole thing was hopeless.
> He could never reach the mode.
>
> The engineer then sat down where the mathmetician was. He then moved
> half the distance towards here. A few minutes later he moved half
> again the distance. The engineer didn't give up, knowing that pretty
> soon he'd be close enough.
I'd explain what I was doing and invite her to join me. We'd both move
half the distance to each other and get the whole thing done in one move.
:-)
A man can dream...
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Please don't respond to them all.
>
But if you do have any really good ones, let me know. They can be awesome
shop tips like Swingman's plywood cart and don't necessarily have to be
funny... but it helps.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
On 2/10/2017 9:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:21:36 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>> On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
>>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>>>>> unsafe
>>>>>
>>>>> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
>>>>>
>>>>> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
>>>>>
>>>>> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
>>>>> else cut their food
>>>>
>>>> Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
>>>> nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
>>>> happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
>>>
>>> And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
>>>> look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
>>>> hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
>>>> propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
>>>> suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
>>>> auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
>>>> essentially ZERO.
>>>
>>> If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
>>> really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
>>>
>>
>> That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room, then walking
>> halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic tells us that I will never reach
>> the other side.
>>
>> So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway down. Some time
>> later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then halfway down from *that* point, etc.
>>
>> Sounds to me like I'll never hit the ground.
>
> The best one I heard was the mathemetition, the engineer, and the
> model. The mathmetician sat on the opposite end of the park bench
> from the model. After a few minutes, he moved half way towards here.
> A few minutes later, he moved half again the distance towards her. He
> then got up and went home, figuring that the whole thing was hopeless.
> He could never reach the mode.
>
> The engineer then sat down where the mathmetician was. He then moved
> half the distance towards here. A few minutes later he moved half
> again the distance. The engineer didn't give up, knowing that pretty
> soon he'd be close enough.
>
;~)
"Electric Comet" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>unsafe
I've found that the safety devices on a lot of homeowner grade power tools
are so poorly placed and/or designed that they interfere with the use of the
tool... Many users discard them if they can... I haven't found that problem
with professional grade tools.
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 12:41:33 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:14:37 -0800 (PST)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > and should
> >
> > be
> >
> > discussed in more detail
>
> well really the point is that discussing is no good
>
> the industry and or hobby should be doing more to provide the proper
> training
>
> the manufacturers could consider it marketing expense as it would drive
> more business to them to provide intensive training
inter
esting
p
o
I
n
t
In article <af9f3458-daa8-4c4d-8922-e19050610998
@googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> > On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> > > On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
> > >> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> > >>> unsafe
> > >>
> > >> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
> > >>
> > >> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
> > >>
> > >> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
> > >>
> > >> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
> > >> else cut their food
> > >
> > > Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
> > > nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
> > > happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
> >
> > And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
> > > look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
> > > hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
> > > propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
> > > suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
> > > auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
> > > essentially ZERO.
> >
> > If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
> > really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
> >
>
> That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room, then walking
> halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic tells us that I will never reach
> the other side.
>
> So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway down. Some time
> later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then halfway down from *that* point, etc.
>
> Sounds to me like I'll never hit the ground.
That argument is attractive to anyone who does
not understand the mathematical concept of
limit. In any case a point is reached where you
have to go the whole rest of the distance or
none of it--movement is quantized.
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 8:58:54 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:21:36 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> >> > On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
> >> >> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> >> >>> unsafe
> >> >>
> >> >> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
> >> >>
> >> >> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
> >> >>
> >> >> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
> >> >> else cut their food
> >> >
> >> > Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
> >> > nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
> >> > happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
> >>
> >> And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
> >> > look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
> >> > hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
> >> > propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
> >> > suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
> >> > auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
> >> > essentially ZERO.
> >>
> >> If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
> >> really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
> >>
> >
> >That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room, then walking
> >halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic tells us that I will never reach
> >the other side.
> >
> >So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway down. Some time
> >later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then halfway down from *that* point, etc.
> >
> >Sounds to me like I'll never hit the ground.
>
> The optimist would think that.
It sure hurts less. ;-)
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> > On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
> >> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> >>> unsafe
> >>
> >> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
> >>
> >> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
> >>
> >> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
> >>
> >>
> >> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
> >>
> >> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
> >> else cut their food
> >
> > Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
> > nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
> > happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
>
> And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
>
> >
> >
> > If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
> > look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
> > hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
> > propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
> > suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
> > auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
> > essentially ZERO.
>
> If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
> really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
>
That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room, then walking
halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic tells us that I will never reach
the other side.
So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway down. Some time
later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then halfway down from *that* point, etc.
Sounds to me like I'll never hit the ground.
On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 2:43:49 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote:
> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> unsafe
>
> my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>
> but once in a while when i am cutting the thickest wood it can cut the
> blade guard gets in the way
>
> without the guard i make the cut and i am done
>
> with the guard i have to grab and hold the guard which takes away
> my concentration of the more important work
>
> read an article where a test pilot died in a cirrus recently
>
> the cirrus planes all have airframe parachutes
>
> glass cockpit and airframe parachute are the two dominant features
>
> but it turns out that there have still been quite a few fatalities in
> the plane
>
> and the plane has a higher rate of incidents that similar planes from
> other plane makers
>
>
> pretty clear that safety features actually provide a false sense of
> safety where proper training and techniques take a backseat
>
> some people should not
>
> operate dangerous machinery
> drive cars
> fly airplanes
I'd be curious to know if the manual for the saw gives instructions for proper guard adjustment...
J. Clarke <[email protected]> on Sun, 29 Oct 2017 20:32:23
-0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 18:00:20 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 20:52:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 22:27:20 -0400 typed in
>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 19:27:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Feb 2017
>>>>>12:43:19 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>>>>>unsafe
>>>>>>
>>>>>>my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>>>>>
>>>>> I've a circular saw with a safety switch on the handle - right
>>>>>where I could reach it if my thumb were a half inch longer. Result is
>>>>>that I have to hold the trigger with one hand while pressing the
>>>>>safety interlock with the other hand, while moving the saw guard with
>>>>>the third hand.
>>>>
>>>>Old thread,
>>>
>>> Not near as old as some.
>>
>>True but it was discussed at length then.
>
>Just a note of ancient history. When I was an engineer at Enormous
>Aerospace before it got taken over by More Enormous Aerospace, there
>was a press that was activated by a foot pedal. The OSHA people made
>a big deal out of the risk of accidentally actuating the foot pedal
>and required that a guard be installed to prevent this. The press had
>been installed during WWII and between then and the time that OSHA got
>involved there had been no injuries associated with it. In the five
>years after the guard they demanded was installed there were three
>injuries caused by the guard, which presented a tripping hazard.
Sounds par for the course.
Friend had the company issue new "safety" razor knives. He's cut
himself more times with those things ...
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 11:49:09 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> [email protected] on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 22:27:20 -0400 typed in
> rec.woodworking the following:
> >On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 19:27:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Feb 2017
> >>12:43:19 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
> >>>
> >>>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> >>>unsafe
> >>>
> >>>my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
> >>
> >> I've a circular saw with a safety switch on the handle - right
> >>where I could reach it if my thumb were a half inch longer. Result is
> >>that I have to hold the trigger with one hand while pressing the
> >>safety interlock with the other hand, while moving the saw guard with
> >>the third hand.
> >
> >Old thread,
>
> Not near as old as some.
>
> I just downloaded 660,000 headers, going back to 2003.
>
Please don't respond to them all.
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 08:03:41 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>>> unsafe
>>>
>>> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
>>>
>>> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
>>>
>>> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
>>>
>>> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
>>> else cut their food
>>
>> Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
>> nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
>> happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
>
>And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
>
>>
>>
>> If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
>> look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
>> hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
>> propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
>> suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
>> auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
>> essentially ZERO.
>
>If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
>really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
>
>
>
>>
>> The biggest beneficiary of new safety devices that the government
>> requires is the person who owns the patent on the device.
>
>Oh, and those those who's lives have been saved or who have walked away
>with no injuries.
>
>>
>> The best safety device sits at the upper end of your neck, if you do not
>> use it nothing will protect you. Before doing any thing you should
>> consider all possible out comes for what you are about to do, and act
>> accordingly.
>
>Which goes with out saying but it does not always work correctly. It
>often miscalculates.
>
>
>
Particularly when it is dissabled, intentionally or otherwize. A drug
or alcohol induced stupor, or a lack of sleep, - many things can
dissable it. However, without the safety device at the top of the
neck, many other socalled "safety devices" can be disabled or
compromised as well. Case in point - the Tesla and the white transport
truck and the inattentive driver _--
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 19:27:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Feb 2017
>12:43:19 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>
>>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>unsafe
>>
>>my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>
> I've a circular saw with a safety switch on the handle - right
>where I could reach it if my thumb were a half inch longer. Result is
>that I have to hold the trigger with one hand while pressing the
>safety interlock with the other hand, while moving the saw guard with
>the third hand.
Old thread, but I had a circular saw that the trigger lock was right
where the thumb rested.
> I'm looking for a new circ saw.
Trashed it long ago.
On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>> unsafe
>>
>> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
>>
>> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
>>
>> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
>>
>>
>> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
>>
>> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
>> else cut their food
>
> Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
> nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
> happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
>
>
> If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
> look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
> hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
> propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
> suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
> auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
> essentially ZERO.
If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
>
> The biggest beneficiary of new safety devices that the government
> requires is the person who owns the patent on the device.
Oh, and those those who's lives have been saved or who have walked away
with no injuries.
>
> The best safety device sits at the upper end of your neck, if you do not
> use it nothing will protect you. Before doing any thing you should
> consider all possible out comes for what you are about to do, and act
> accordingly.
Which goes with out saying but it does not always work correctly. It
often miscalculates.
Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Feb 2017
12:43:19 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>
>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>unsafe
>
>my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
I've a circular saw with a safety switch on the handle - right
where I could reach it if my thumb were a half inch longer. Result is
that I have to hold the trigger with one hand while pressing the
safety interlock with the other hand, while moving the saw guard with
the third hand.
I'm looking for a new circ saw.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 18:00:20 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 20:52:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 22:27:20 -0400 typed in
>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 19:27:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Feb 2017
>>>>12:43:19 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>>>>unsafe
>>>>>
>>>>>my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>>>>
>>>> I've a circular saw with a safety switch on the handle - right
>>>>where I could reach it if my thumb were a half inch longer. Result is
>>>>that I have to hold the trigger with one hand while pressing the
>>>>safety interlock with the other hand, while moving the saw guard with
>>>>the third hand.
>>>
>>>Old thread,
>>
>> Not near as old as some.
>
>True but it was discussed at length then.
Just a note of ancient history. When I was an engineer at Enormous
Aerospace before it got taken over by More Enormous Aerospace, there
was a press that was activated by a foot pedal. The OSHA people made
a big deal out of the risk of accidentally actuating the foot pedal
and required that a guard be installed to prevent this. The press had
been installed during WWII and between then and the time that OSHA got
involved there had been no injuries associated with it. In the five
years after the guard they demanded was installed there were three
injuries caused by the guard, which presented a tripping hazard.
[email protected] on Sat, 28 Oct 2017 22:27:20 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 19:27:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Feb 2017
>>12:43:19 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>
>>>lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>>unsafe
>>>
>>>my hitachi cms has a blade guard that is fine most of the time
>>
>> I've a circular saw with a safety switch on the handle - right
>>where I could reach it if my thumb were a half inch longer. Result is
>>that I have to hold the trigger with one hand while pressing the
>>safety interlock with the other hand, while moving the saw guard with
>>the third hand.
>
>Old thread,
Not near as old as some.
I just downloaded 660,000 headers, going back to 2003.
>but I had a circular saw that the trigger lock was right
>where the thumb rested.
>
>> I'm looking for a new circ saw.
>
>Trashed it long ago.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:14:37 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> and should
>
> be
>
> discussed in more detail
well really the point is that discussing is no good
the industry and or hobby should be doing more to provide the proper
training
the manufacturers could consider it marketing expense as it would drive
more business to them to provide intensive training
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:49:24 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> inter
>
> esting
>
> p
>
> o
>
> I
>
> n
>
> t
at least the chance of a fatality is less likely than in aviation
where they really have a big problem
but the industry and community should still do a lot more to get people
checked out on the equipment
it is even worse now as there is less and less exposure to equipment
in schools
On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
> unsafe
interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
else cut their food
On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>> unsafe
>
> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
>
> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
>
> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
>
>
> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
>
> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
> else cut their food
Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
essentially ZERO.
The biggest beneficiary of new safety devices that the government
requires is the person who owns the patent on the device.
The best safety device sits at the upper end of your neck, if you do not
use it nothing will protect you. Before doing any thing you should
consider all possible out comes for what you are about to do, and act
accordingly.
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:32:31 -0500
Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can
> do nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of
never said anything about govt and safety but i agree
now back to the point
good training and familiarity makes a big difference
the manufacturers should subsidize that training it would be money
well spent
take it out of their marketing budget
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:21:36 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> > On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
>> >> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>> >>> unsafe
>> >>
>> >> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
>> >>
>> >> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
>> >>
>> >> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
>> >>
>> >> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
>> >> else cut their food
>> >
>> > Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
>> > nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
>> > happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
>>
>> And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
>> > look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
>> > hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
>> > propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
>> > suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
>> > auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
>> > essentially ZERO.
>>
>> If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
>> really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
>>
>
>That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room, then walking
>halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic tells us that I will never reach
>the other side.
>
>So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway down. Some time
>later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then halfway down from *that* point, etc.
>
>Sounds to me like I'll never hit the ground.
The optimist would think that.
On 2/10/2017 2:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/9/2017 8:32 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> On 2/9/2017 8:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:43:19 -0800
>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> lots of safety features get in the way and disrupt workflow and are
>>>>> unsafe
>>>>
>>>> interesting that someone managed to kill themselves with a manual tool
>>>>
>>>> and no deaths by by nail gun but two by stretch cords and straps
>>>>
>>>> http://www.whirlwindtool.com/2012/hazard_tools.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> that is an old report so i am curious how a newer one looks
>>>>
>>>> maybe some people just need to stay seated at home and have someone
>>>> else cut their food
>>>
>>> Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can do
>>> nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of accidental
>>> happenings is the person who is in control of the event.
>>
>> And not even that is fool proof. Accidents happen.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you believe that government regulations can prevent accidents then
>>> look at automobiles. In the 60 years that I have been driving cars,
>>> hundreds of safety devices have been added to cars. As I remember the
>>> propaganda to get the each of the devices required, each device was
>>> suppose to reduce accidents by about 10%. Based on this there is no
>>> auto accidents to day as a reduction of 10% with a 100 device is
>>> essentially ZERO.
>>
>> If you always reduce the "result of the reduction" each time by 10% you
>> really never reach zero. But I get what you mean,
>>
>
> That reminds of the old paradox about walking halfway across a room, then walking
> halfway again, and then walking halfway again. Logic tells us that I will never reach
> the other side.
>
> So what happens if I jump from a height? At some point I'll be halfway down. Some time
> later I'll be halfway down from *that* point, then halfway down from *that* point, etc.
But if you jump from a height you will not be stopping.
My favorite is
Which is 1/2? The needle on the gas gauge indicates the half way mark.
Is the whole volume of the tank half full or half empty?
Both are commonly used to describe the same thing except one is actually
1/2, the other is actually 0.
Empty has only one value of measurement, 0. Half of 0 is still O.
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 19:28:03 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:32:31 -0500
>Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Safety is one of those things that government and its regulations can
>> do nothing about. The only person who has 100% control of
>
>
>never said anything about govt and safety but i agree
>
>now back to the point
>
>good training and familiarity makes a big difference
>
>the manufacturers should subsidize that training it would be money
>well spent
>
>take it out of their marketing budget
Since it's their money, and apparently they don't agree, it doesn't
happen. OTOH, if you'd like to spend your money...