My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most (if
not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is going
to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
You must have been in the military at some point? Best way to do well on an
inspection....
"sandman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51>, "AL" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop
in
> > rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
(if
> > not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
going
> > to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> > justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> > before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
> >
> >
>
> This sounds a bit too naughty for this time of year (a chance of getting
> coal and all), but a trick around here, IF your shop is otherwise in
> fine shape... leave the inspector a 'find'. A glaring, yet innocuous
> violation, like a blade-guard (which normally wouldn't be there at all)
> tied back with a string---> he finds it, you instantly fix it, and he's
> happy and out the door. The less they find, the harder they look.
> You have to make them feel like they are doing their job.
>
> me bad
In article <[email protected]>,
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Martin H. Eastburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>
> > Lamp oil burns - maybe cutting oil burns ?
> > Martin
> >
>
> Or a contamination hazard if spilled?
That would be the about only real reason to be concerned about it that I
can think up. Otherwise, the stuff is, as Al said, "pretty much inert",
at least in terms of fire hazard. Physical/chemical hazard is another
question entirely - one that I haven't got a clue about. I imagine
dropping concentrated chlorine into it would be a bad thing, as would
letting it come in contact with other strong oxidizers, and of course,
there's the classic "banana peel" scenario that a puddle of it on the
floor could cause.
Albany Georgia, about 1996, the shiney new Lowes (Open for less than 8
months, if I remember things right) burned to the ground. Cause was
later determined from witness testimony to be a customer managing to
somehow combine pool chlorine from one side of the store with paint
thinner on the other side of the store. Resulting mix went up more or
less like napalm, taking the entire store with it. And I do mean the
*ENTIRE* store - The only thing left standing when the smoke cleared was
a 20-ish foot long section of concrete block wall, and that was so
warped out of shape that it could barely be called "standing". Either
item by itself was a non-issue - Put em together, and you've got a
multi-million dollar fire and a "Closed until we rebuild" sign in the
parking lot...
--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
TeamCasa wrote:
<Most> of these guys are really out to help (both the insurance company
who retained them and the business in my experience. Occasionally
you'll find one who's a thwarted early-year OSHA inspector, but by and
large the insurance guys are much more to tuned to reality. If,
however, he does find an actual code violation you can be sure he'll
flag it --of course, that's better than the actual OSHA or other
regulatory inspector finding it...
Al,
The list is long and overwhelming. However, most of these guys are looking
for the simple stuff.
1. Grinders, tool rest to far from wheel, no guards or face shields.
2. Fire extinguishers not inspected each month - tag signed.
3. Eye wash stations not clean, or a record of regular inspections.
4. Extension cords used in permanent operation.
5. Electrical outlets/switch plates missing or broken.
6. No lock-out-tag-out program.
7. Missing or non-existent safety program and poor record keeping of safety
meetings/program, MSDS Community right -to-know, hazardous material
manifests.
8. Personal protection programs not complete. Face, eye, noise, respirators,
ect.
9. Safety devices tampered with or defeated. (Big NO NO)
10. Cleanliness - housekeeping.
I hope this helps.
Dave
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
> (if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
> going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:50:02 GMT, "AL" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> > Then we chatted for a while and he took a picture of the
> >outside of the building. Then he left. The whole thing took less than 5
> >minutes.
>
> The holiday week inspection.
>
> I've seen them. <G>
Nah, he's already decided to deny any claims, so he didn't need to look
much....
Don Bruder <[email protected]> writes:
>Albany Georgia, about 1996, the shiney new Lowes (Open for less than 8
>months, if I remember things right) burned to the ground. Cause was
>later determined from witness testimony to be a customer managing to
>somehow combine pool chlorine from one side of the store with paint
>thinner on the other side of the store. Resulting mix went up more or
>less like napalm, taking the entire store with it. And I do mean the
>*ENTIRE* store - The only thing left standing when the smoke cleared was
Wouldn't a modern store like Lowes have a sprinkler system to prevent the
building from burning to the ground?
I noticed around here that Home Depot even has sprinklers in the shelving
units in the paint department.
Brian Elfert
I invited the fire department over to inspect my shop. They liked my
safety gear, first aid kit, fire extinguishers, smoke alarms, etc.
One guy liked the way I soldered hardware cloth to the fluorescent
light reflectors to protect the bulbs. They did not like the cans of
finish and paints I had stored on metal shelving.
"Joshua Putnam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> If the insurance company did a good job underwriting the application in
> the first place, then they won't be looking for reasons to dump it. But
> not every company does a good job the first time, and not every loss
> control inspector understands their job as reducing risk while keeping
> the customer. If it's the first time this inspector has inspected the
> risk for this insurance company, then sure, I can see being nervous
> about it, even if that doesn't seem like a productive approach.
Insurance companies are in business to make profit. To do that, they need
customers. The best customers are the ones that pay their premiums on time
and have few claims. The company that insures us gives a seminar at least
once a year of topics such as safety, workman's comp claims, drug testing,
etc.
They help us avoid problems as a partnership, not the Gestapo to give us a
hard time. Listen to the inspector and his report as it can save you money.
Ed
AL wrote:
> Thanks everyone for responding! You guys provided many comments which never
> occurred to me.
>
> The insurance inspector came earlier today. I was braced for the worst. He
> wanted to see the fire extinguisher (but didn't care that it didn't have a
> tag). He wanted to know how many gallons of cutting fluid I had, and how
> many welding cylinders (argon and C-25). He asked if I had any acetylene (I
> don't use it). Then we chatted for a while and he took a picture of the
> outside of the building. Then he left. The whole thing took less than 5
> minutes.
>
> As far as I know, cutting fluid is relatively inert (kind of like motor oil)
> so I was surprised that he cared. Obviously he would care about the welding
> cylinders. And he didn't care about the smoke detector or my nifty eye wash
> which attaches to the bathroom faucet aerator.
>
> "AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
>
>>My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
>>rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
>
> (if
>
>>not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
>
> going
>
>>to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
>>justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
>>before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>>
>>
>
>
>
Lamp oil burns - maybe cutting oil burns ?
Martin
--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer [email protected]
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
In article <[email protected]>,
"Martin H. Eastburn" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I remember the time OSHA went through a Ultra high tech Radar site.
>My dad was the senior most person there other than the General and sometimes
>higher due to certain clearances he needed.
>
>He got tagged because of his Polly Perk - those plastic coffee pots that had
>(as most today do) a two prong plug. It sat on his desk.
>
>He took the cord to the shop and drilled out the rivet in the pot side,
>secured a three prong plug/cable and stripped 6" from the end. Cut the black
>and white lines short and attached the socket for the poly side. The Ground
>looped back from this socket and then up to a Green tagged lug. This lug was
>sheet metal screwed into the side of the perk.
>
>That mod passed OSHA.
>
>He naturally used a SS screw - didn't want the iron taste!
I think if that were my dad he would have "installed" the coffee pot
into the OSHA guy's windshield.
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Al,
> The list is long and overwhelming. However, most of these guys are
> looking for the simple stuff.
I go through this once a year. In addition, make sure any three prong cords
have the ground prong in place. Fans should be plastic housings or
otherwise protected. He may want to see your employee training setup, when
was the last fire drill, emergency action and fire prevention plans, and
hazardous material communications program. Fork lift truck training,
propane storage, chemical and solvent storage. Not to mention exit signs and
good lighting
They are more interested in helping you be a safe employer rather that try
to shut you down and raise premiums. Listen to the guy, show him anything
he wants to see. My last inspector said he like to see a shop with music
blaring and employees all but dancing as happy people are safe people.
Put the guards back on the machines and have safety glasses and hearing
protection available even if not needed.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Al,
>>The list is long and overwhelming. However, most of these guys are
>>looking for the simple stuff.
>
>
>
> I go through this once a year. In addition, make sure any three prong cords
> have the ground prong in place. Fans should be plastic housings or
> otherwise protected. He may want to see your employee training setup, when
> was the last fire drill, emergency action and fire prevention plans, and
> hazardous material communications program. Fork lift truck training,
> propane storage, chemical and solvent storage. Not to mention exit signs and
> good lighting
>
> They are more interested in helping you be a safe employer rather that try
> to shut you down and raise premiums. Listen to the guy, show him anything
> he wants to see. My last inspector said he like to see a shop with music
> blaring and employees all but dancing as happy people are safe people.
>
> Put the guards back on the machines and have safety glasses and hearing
> protection available even if not needed.
>
>
I remember the time OSHA went through a Ultra high tech Radar site.
My dad was the senior most person there other than the General and sometimes
higher due to certain clearances he needed.
He got tagged because of his Polly Perk - those plastic coffee pots that had
(as most today do) a two prong plug. It sat on his desk.
He took the cord to the shop and drilled out the rivet in the pot side,
secured a three prong plug/cable and stripped 6" from the end. Cut the black
and white lines short and attached the socket for the poly side. The Ground
looped back from this socket and then up to a Green tagged lug. This lug was
sheet metal screwed into the side of the perk.
That mod passed OSHA.
He naturally used a SS screw - didn't want the iron taste!
Martin
--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer [email protected]
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
(if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>>>>> I'm surprised no one mentioned a very complete first aid kit.
Ed
If you have any chemicals more hazardous than water, better move them
off site...
AL wrote:
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most (if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
> (if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
> going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
If you have tanks for cutting, welding etc. make sure they are properly
secured in place and not just free standing.
Frank
In article <[email protected]>, "Tom
Gardner" <tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> says...
> All good sugestions here. I go through this a few times a year. My best
> strategy is to have everything as good as I can but I leave a few "Red
> Hearings" for him to find. Simple things and easy to fix like covers off of
> electrical boxes, chains around welding tanks unhooked, pile of debris in
> the middle of an isle, guard off of a machine.... Is't his job to find
> something wrong, make it easy for him or he WILL find something else!!!
Some insurance inspectors are like that, others understand that the
company has already agreed to insure the risk, and their job is to help
both the owner and the insurance company reduce the risk of losses. I'm
happy to have one of the latter working for me now as an agent -- sure,
he knows what not to insure, but he also knows that nobody is perfect,
so you have to present the risk to the underwriter in a reasonable
light.
--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html>
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> Tom Gardner wrote:
> >
> > I have a 30,000' 100 yr.+ old building and there's no way an inspector won't
> > find something. I'll bet you anything I could "FIND" enough wrong with your
> > faculity to shut you down...depending on my mood.
> ...
>
> But, in general, that's not a productive approach/mindset...
If the insurance company did a good job underwriting the application in
the first place, then they won't be looking for reasons to dump it. But
not every company does a good job the first time, and not every loss
control inspector understands their job as reducing risk while keeping
the customer. If it's the first time this inspector has inspected the
risk for this insurance company, then sure, I can see being nervous
about it, even if that doesn't seem like a productive approach.
--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html>
I'll send you the hip-boots I wear when I visit this NG!
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>
>> I'll send you a pair of my shoes, try 'em on.
>
> boots, only, please... :)
Got flammable stuff, if so make sure it's properly sealed, or just remove it
until he's gone!
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
> (if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
> going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
What kind of insurance, workers comp, property, or general liability?
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
(if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
I have a 30,000' 100 yr.+ old building and there's no way an inspector won't
find something. I'll bet you anything I could "FIND" enough wrong with your
faculity to shut you down...depending on my mood.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:tvZxd.3822$He3.1023@trndny05...
>
> "Tom Gardner" <tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
>> All good sugestions here. I go through this a few times a year. My best
>> strategy is to have everything as good as I can but I leave a few "Red
>> Hearings" for him to find.
>
> I never did that, never would even consider it. We try to maintain a
> save and clean shop even if no one is watching.
>
>> Is't his job to find something wrong, make it easy for him or he WILL
>> find something else!!!
>
> OK, so let him. He is trying to avoid claims and improve your operation.
> I'll take his tips and help.
>
>
All good sugestions here. I go through this a few times a year. My best
strategy is to have everything as good as I can but I leave a few "Red
Hearings" for him to find. Simple things and easy to fix like covers off of
electrical boxes, chains around welding tanks unhooked, pile of debris in
the middle of an isle, guard off of a machine.... Is't his job to find
something wrong, make it easy for him or he WILL find something else!!!
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
> (if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
> going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
In article <36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51>, "AL" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most (if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
This sounds a bit too naughty for this time of year (a chance of getting
coal and all), but a trick around here, IF your shop is otherwise in
fine shape... leave the inspector a 'find'. A glaring, yet innocuous
violation, like a blade-guard (which normally wouldn't be there at all)
tied back with a string---> he finds it, you instantly fix it, and he's
happy and out the door. The less they find, the harder they look.
You have to make them feel like they are doing their job.
me bad
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:50:02 GMT, "AL" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Then we chatted for a while and he took a picture of the
>outside of the building. Then he left. The whole thing took less than 5
>minutes.
The holiday week inspection.
I've seen them. <G>
Barry
"Martin H. Eastburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> Lamp oil burns - maybe cutting oil burns ?
> Martin
>
Or a contamination hazard if spilled?
I'll send you a pair of my shoes, try 'em on.
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>
>> I have a 30,000' 100 yr.+ old building and there's no way an inspector
>> won't
>> find something. I'll bet you anything I could "FIND" enough wrong with
>> your
>> faculity to shut you down...depending on my mood.
> ...
>
> But, in general, that's not a productive approach/mindset...
Tom Gardner responds:
>I'll send you a pair of my shoes, try 'em on.
>
>
>"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a 30,000' 100 yr.+ old building and there's no way an inspector
>>> won't
>>> find something. I'll bet you anything I could "FIND" enough wrong with
>>> your
>>> faculity to shut you down...depending on my mood.
>> ...
>>
>> But, in general, that's not a productive approach/mindset...
And how does that help improve the safety in the OP's shop? That's what the
insurance inspector is supposed to be doing, not trying to find something to
shut him down, which does nothing but deprive the insurance company of a
premium.
Charlie Self
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder
respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
>
>This sounds a bit too naughty for this time of year (a chance of getting
>coal and all), but a trick around here, IF your shop is otherwise in
>fine shape... leave the inspector a 'find'. A glaring, yet innocuous
>violation, like a blade-guard (which normally wouldn't be there at all)
>tied back with a string---> he finds it, you instantly fix it, and he's
>happy and out the door. The less they find, the harder they look.
>You have to make them feel like they are doing their job.
>
>me bad
I agree. I had a fire inspector call to come by. I unscrewed bulbs in
an exit sign. Once found that was the end of the inspection.
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:33:32 GMT, Don Bruder <[email protected]> wrote:
>> - maybe cutting oil burns ?
>
>I'd expect it to burn just about as well as lamp oil - namely, with
>great difficulty in getting it ignited (unless some sort of wick or
>atomizing method is used)
like a mist feed coolant system?
"Tom Gardner" <tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
> All good sugestions here. I go through this a few times a year. My best
> strategy is to have everything as good as I can but I leave a few "Red
> Hearings" for him to find.
I never did that, never would even consider it. We try to maintain a save
and clean shop even if no one is watching.
> Is't his job to find something wrong, make it easy for him or he WILL
> find something else!!!
OK, so let him. He is trying to avoid claims and improve your operation.
I'll take his tips and help.
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
> (if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
> going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
Get rid of any flammables, whether liquid, paper, or cloth. If you use
flammables, have them in a metal locker.
Go out right now and buy one of those testers that tell you if the socket is
wired right. About $7 anywhere. Fix any that are not. Check your fire
extinguishers to be up to date. Clean up. Have signs where you need signs.
Any inspector can and will find something wrong. But if you give the
impression that you are safety conscious, and working to provide a safe
place, they will usually give you a little slack.
Tip: Shut up. Speak when spoken to, and don't elaborate on anything. Be
sociable. Don't try to take him anywhere or keep him from going anywhere.
Follow at a slight distance.
He is going to catch the obvious that you missed. But whether or not he
goes into details depends on how anal he is and your attitude.
Steve (former BCSP safety man)
Thanks everyone for responding! You guys provided many comments which never
occurred to me.
The insurance inspector came earlier today. I was braced for the worst. He
wanted to see the fire extinguisher (but didn't care that it didn't have a
tag). He wanted to know how many gallons of cutting fluid I had, and how
many welding cylinders (argon and C-25). He asked if I had any acetylene (I
don't use it). Then we chatted for a while and he took a picture of the
outside of the building. Then he left. The whole thing took less than 5
minutes.
As far as I know, cutting fluid is relatively inert (kind of like motor oil)
so I was surprised that he cared. Obviously he would care about the welding
cylinders. And he didn't care about the smoke detector or my nifty eye wash
which attaches to the bathroom faucet aerator.
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
(if
> not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
going
> to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
"Martin H. Eastburn" <[email protected]> wrote:
> AL wrote:
>
> > Thanks everyone for responding! You guys provided many comments which never
> > occurred to me.
> >
> > The insurance inspector came earlier today. I was braced for the worst. He
> > wanted to see the fire extinguisher (but didn't care that it didn't have a
> > tag). He wanted to know how many gallons of cutting fluid I had, and how
> > many welding cylinders (argon and C-25). He asked if I had any acetylene (I
> > don't use it). Then we chatted for a while and he took a picture of the
> > outside of the building. Then he left. The whole thing took less than 5
> > minutes.
> >
> > As far as I know, cutting fluid is relatively inert (kind of like motor oil)
> > so I was surprised that he cared. Obviously he would care about the welding
> > cylinders. And he didn't care about the smoke detector or my nifty eye wash
> > which attaches to the bathroom faucet aerator.
> >
> > "AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:36Kxd.606756$D%.294753@attbi_s51...
> >
> >>My insurance company wants to inspect my small metal/wood/welding shop in
> >>rented industrial space. I believe my setup is very safe and meets most
> >
> > (if
> >
> >>not all) NEC, OSHA, etc. code. But I don't know how picky this guy is
> >
> > going
> >
> >>to be. Perhaps he is going to make sure he finds something in order to
> >>justify his fee to the insurance company. Has anyone gone through this
> >>before? Care to share any tips which may not be obvious?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> Lamp oil burns
Only if there's some sort of wick, or it's turned into a fine mist
(perhaps by running it through a spray bottle) somehow. As a puddle of
oil, it's only slightly more of a fire risk than water.
> - maybe cutting oil burns ?
I'd expect it to burn just about as well as lamp oil - namely, with
great difficulty in getting it ignited (unless some sort of wick or
atomizing method is used) and even more difficulty sustaining a flame.
(Of course, someone dropping a rag into a puddle of the stuff would
constitute a first-class wick...)
--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
Back in the 80's, our liability policy was canceled shortly after an
inspection visit. Since we'd had the policy for many years, I was
puzzled and asked our agent to check out what happened. It turned out
that the inspector noticed we had installed an eye wash station, and
assumed we were using hazardous materials (not true). The insurance
company used his inspection report to decide not to renew our policy.
Business insurance is a weird world, and it gets stranger all the time.
Don't assume anyone is your friend or ally, no matter what their
brochure might say.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Joshua Putnam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>If the insurance company did a good job underwriting the application in
>>the first place, then they won't be looking for reasons to dump it. But
>>not every company does a good job the first time, and not every loss
>>control inspector understands their job as reducing risk while keeping
>>the customer. If it's the first time this inspector has inspected the
>>risk for this insurance company, then sure, I can see being nervous
>>about it, even if that doesn't seem like a productive approach.
>
>
> Insurance companies are in business to make profit. To do that, they need
> customers. The best customers are the ones that pay their premiums on time
> and have few claims. The company that insures us gives a seminar at least
> once a year of topics such as safety, workman's comp claims, drug testing,
> etc.
>
> They help us avoid problems as a partnership, not the Gestapo to give us a
> hard time. Listen to the inspector and his report as it can save you money.
> Ed
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Brian Elfert <[email protected]> wrote:
> Don Bruder <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >Albany Georgia, about 1996, the shiney new Lowes (Open for less than 8
> >months, if I remember things right) burned to the ground. Cause was
> >later determined from witness testimony to be a customer managing to
> >somehow combine pool chlorine from one side of the store with paint
> >thinner on the other side of the store. Resulting mix went up more or
> >less like napalm, taking the entire store with it. And I do mean the
> >*ENTIRE* store - The only thing left standing when the smoke cleared was
>
> Wouldn't a modern store like Lowes have a sprinkler system to prevent the
> building from burning to the ground?
>
> I noticed around here that Home Depot even has sprinklers in the shelving
> units in the paint department.
>
> Brian Elfert
They had sprinklers. Clearly visible. Whether they were operational, or
even had a chance to activate, is another question altogether.
From witness testimony, it sounds like essentially what happened was a
fireball erupted in the paint department, and damn near the whole place
was on fire within minutes. By the time I managed to navigate the 6-8
blocks from my home to a clear vantage point of what was burning (took
all of about 5 minutes from the time I heard the series of explosions
and noticed the smoke plume) the entire store was a mass of flames that
I could feel the heat from on my face from roughly half a mile away, and
chunks of burned foam and similar material the size of basketballs were
starting to rain down in the downwind area. My home was in the "fallout
pattern", and it took me literally DAYS to get all of that crap cleaned
out of the landlord's swimming pool. It drifted around the area like
weird black snow for weeks afterwards, reeking of "burnt" and leaving
streaks of soot on everything it came in contact with. Not certain
exactly what it was, but I suspect probably quite a bit of stacked
styrofoam or similar insulation board was the source.
I've never heard whether anyone died in that fire, though I expect that
if anyone had, it would have been front-page news in the local
fish-wrap. Not a peep on that score, despite some heavy coverage of the
fire itself during the following days, so I can only assume everyone who
was inside somehow made it out OK.
--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.