Silly Question about Jigs - --

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 12 Dec 2003 19:06:22 GMT, [email protected] (MHaseltine) wrote:
>
> >Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> And my silly answer is:
>
> If they are moving in 3/4 time, to a fairly fast tempo, they are
> prolly Jigs. At a slower tempo they might be Waltzes. If the 3/4 is
> further tortured to a 6/8 and sprightly done (with more than one), a
> Tarantella.

Don't forget about slip-jigs, reels, airs, slow airs, marches, strathspeys,
strathspey airs & polkas

"golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01>...
> > The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it.
> >
> > "golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >>
> > > My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a
jig
> > > is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the
time,
> > > hench a fixture in the shop.
>
> Oh ya? Why not?


Don't bother. CW's a tool.

On 12 Dec 2003 19:06:22 GMT, [email protected] (MHaseltine) wrote:

>Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"

And my silly answer is:

If they are moving in 3/4 time, to a fairly fast tempo, they are
prolly Jigs. At a slower tempo they might be Waltzes. If the 3/4 is
further tortured to a 6/8 and sprightly done (with more than one), a
Tarantella.

A "fixture" seems a sad name for a dance.

BTW: The guy who mentioned the differentiation in nomenclature - he's
called an "asshole".



Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania 19428
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

CW,

I'm not certain but I'll give it a shot. In the same vein as
California's recent attempt to remove hurtful and politically
incorrect language (e.g., slave, as in "slave-cylinder"--gotta laugh
at that one) from all areas of public discourse, POW imagines that the
other WW's "knowing look" was the product of his own (racist)
politically correct ideology, stemming from his understanding of the
word jig as a racial derogatory (shortened form of "jigaboo"). A
kinder judgment of the other WW might see him as trying to be (overly)
sensitive, but I guess it depends where you stand on the "politically
correct" issue.

Jig has been a common term among rednecks for a long time. See a brief
explanation of it, and other such, at:

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0NQP/4_36/97252588/p1/article.jhtml

H.

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<KYvCb.331162$Dw6.1111058@attbi_s02>...
> I haven't a clue what the hell you are talking about.
> "Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > His "knowing look" probably had more to do with the racial connotation
> that
> > jig carries. Pretty silly to my way of thinking, in this day and time.
> In
> > my experience the "knowing look" is usually accompanied by a snicker or
> SEG,
> > and usually comes from a racist. Flames welcomed.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Pounds
> > http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
> >
> >
> > "MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
> happened
> > > to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
> number
> > > of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a
> tennoning
> jig.
> > > Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
> and
> > > been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The
> person
> gave
> > > me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful
> and
> not
> > > call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
> (which
> > > is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
> jigs -
> > > fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
> > >
> > > Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> >

I've lived mostly in NV, NC, and TN, and I've heard it a good deal, as
a racist term mostly in its full form but sometimes the shortened
form, in lots of discourse--guess I've been keepin' worse company....

I don't see any harm in "jig" when the context is obviously
mechanical, but then again I'm not black and I don't have to worry
about being sensitive to those kinds of names. I won't presume to say
what should or should not be a sensitive issue for someone else.

If the context were in doubt I'd be happy to use the word fixture if
that makes someone else less defensive. No skin off my back...

Trying to keep my dogmas unfixed,
H

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BtNCb.533006$HS4.4072535@attbi_s01>...
> I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never heard
> the term. As it is a long standing legitimate term with no racist overtones,
> I can only guess that it is one of those things that people think long and
> hard to find a way to be offended by it.
>
> "Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > CW,
> >
>
> >
> > Jig has been a common term among rednecks for a long time. See a brief
> > explanation of it, and other such, at:

Hi CW,

I'm not sure what you mean by "rearranged" so I can't speak to that.

I'm in love with Norma Loquendi (pace Safire) and historical
linguistics, though, so my interest in the many different ways that
words acquire and change meanings has its practical uses.

I despise political correctness, which I *think* is what you're
referring to. My point speaks to a simple "do unto others..."
approach. That, and the fact that I grew up with minorities as
friends, has taught me not to pretend a knowledge of what should or
should not make someone else offended, until I understand them
sufficiently.

I'm not, BTW arguing for the abolition of the word jig, as you'll note
from my original post. I was just explaining why another WW might have
made the point he did with a knowing glance.

H

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Rt7Db.542739$HS4.4130182@attbi_s01>...
> So any word that can be rearranged to mean a racial term should not be used.
> Who comes up with this idiocy?
>
>
> "Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I've lived mostly in NV, NC, and TN, and I've heard it a good deal, as
> > a racist term mostly in its full form but sometimes the shortened
> > form, in lots of discourse--guess I've been keepin' worse company....
> >
> > I don't see any harm in "jig" when the context is obviously
> > mechanical, but then again I'm not black and I don't have to worry
> > about being sensitive to those kinds of names. I won't presume to say
> > what should or should not be a sensitive issue for someone else.
> >
> > If the context were in doubt I'd be happy to use the word fixture if
> > that makes someone else less defensive. No skin off my back...
> >
> > Trying to keep my dogmas unfixed,
> > H
> >
> > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<BtNCb.533006$HS4.4072535@attbi_s01>...
> > > I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never
> heard
> > > the term. As it is a long standing legitimate term with no racist
> overtones,
> > > I can only guess that it is one of those things that people think long
> and
> > > hard to find a way to be offended by it.
> > >
> > > "Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > CW,
> > > >
>
> > > >
> > > > Jig has been a common term among rednecks for a long time. See a brief
> > > > explanation of it, and other such, at:

Tom <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
<snip>
> I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters'
> Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the
> word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding-
> dongs that hostess should rename their product.

Both Webster's and the OED (much more helpful in this as in most
things) attribute the use of either jig or jigaboo as a derogatory
racial slang word to the early half of the 20th century. I used the
Webster's online version. It seems obvious to me that the term came
from 19th/20th century white preoccupation with black dancing forms,
"jig" being a common word for certain dance forms. I suspect that
quickly, owing to broader cultural forces, the term took on a
derogatory tone.

The ethnic slang is not a "misappropriation", at least not in the way
that historical linguists view semantics: that's precisely how many
words have acquired their meanings--in just the way you imagine
unimaginable ("ding-dong"). Negro and gay immediately come to mind. If
"ding-dong" were to become a slur I would bet money that Hostess would
rename.

I sympathize if you think that the names for foods (or whatever)
should be straightforward, but that's not how words have,
historically, acquired meaning. For food specifically, check out
Louisville author Martha Barnette's book, "Ladyfingers and Nun's
Tummies" for an interesting look at cuisine etymologies. I'm careful
to note that you say "should", which indicates your favor of
prescriptive definitions--to which I too am partial--but at some point
you have to allow that many if not most words acquire meanings
indepent of prescriptive reasoning.

H.

Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
<snip>
> BTW: The guy who mentioned the differentiation in nomenclature - he's
> called an "asshole".

Oh, man, you gotta watch that--some people find that word offensive.

Trying not to laugh,
H

No, no, this really is a good change, as Juergen tried to point out.
The basis for the change is geographic, not political: it's not a
"political correctness" issue in other words.

Orient is Latin for the present active participle of orior ("to
rise"), which came to mean even in Roman times "The East". That
geographic definition worked well for as long as Westerners
communicated pretty much only with themselves. If we wish to include
the East in our global communications now, as we do, then we can't
really refer to Asians with a word meaning "Easterners"--which doesn't
make sense to them. Unless, of course, you don't mind being referred
to as a South American by Canadians....

H.


Silvan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
>
> > was part
> > of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory
> > phrase but merely an acknowledgement of origin.
>
> It's one of the dumber ones IMHO. In all the languages I know anything
> about, the word (identical, or very similiar) "oriental" just means
> "eastern."
>
> I forget the etymology here. I think it's from Latin. "From the direction
> of the sunrise" or something like that.
>
> I'll leave it for someone else to go look it up. I'm too lazy ATM.

You have the correct definition. BTW, most machinists don't know the
difference either.


"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My bet is that in the machine shop, and in the machinist' world, the
> difference is probably more pronounced/important/politically correct than
it
> is in woodworking.
>
> There is, at least semantically, a difference. To paraphrase, precisely,
one
> of my old books: "A jig is a device used to maintain mechanically the
> correct positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or
> between parts of work during assembly, and a fixture is a device for
> supporting work during machining."
>
> Then again, I/it could be all wet.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
> "MHaseltine" wrote in message
> > Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
> happened
> > to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
> number
> > of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a
tennoning
> jig.
> > Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
> and
> > been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The
person
> gave
> > me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful
and
> not
> > call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
> (which
> > is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
> jigs -
> > fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
> >
> > Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
> >
> > Michael
>
>

PM6564 wrote:
> What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question
> was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind
> of like yank and yankee.

Main Entry: 1jig
Pronunciation: 'jig
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps from Middle French giguer to frolic, from gigue fiddle, of
Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gIga fiddle; akin to Old Norse geiga to
turn aside
Date: circa 1560
1 a : any of several lively springy dances in triple rhythm b : music to which a
jig may be danced
2 : TRICK, GAME -- used chiefly in the phrase the jig is up
3 a : any of several fishing devices that are jerked up and down or drawn
through the water b : a device used to maintain mechanically the correct
positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or between parts of
work during assembly c : a device in which crushed ore is concentrated or coal
is cleaned by agitating in water
- in jig time : in a short time : QUICKLY




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com


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I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never heard
the term. As it is a long standing legitimate term with no racist overtones,
I can only guess that it is one of those things that people think long and
hard to find a way to be offended by it.

"Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW,
>

>
> Jig has been a common term among rednecks for a long time. See a brief
> explanation of it, and other such, at:

My bet is that in the machine shop, and in the machinist' world, the
difference is probably more pronounced/important/politically correct than it
is in woodworking.

There is, at least semantically, a difference. To paraphrase, precisely, one
of my old books: "A jig is a device used to maintain mechanically the
correct positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or
between parts of work during assembly, and a fixture is a device for
supporting work during machining."

Then again, I/it could be all wet.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"MHaseltine" wrote in message
> Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
happened
> to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
number
> of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning
jig.
> Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
and
> been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person
gave
> me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and
not
> call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
(which
> is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
jigs -
> fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
>
> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> Michael

This sounds to me like one of those freaking irritating know it all type of
people who feel they MUST correct everyone all the time so everyone else
will talk like they do. Their way is correct, everyone else is wrong. These
idiots really gripe my ass ya know? Its not like the creep didn't know what
you were talking about, he just had to correct you anyway. Its some sort of
compulsive thing I guess. Jig, fixture who cares? I would have known fully
well what you were speaking of if I had been the other guy, therefore no
correction from me would have been necessary at all.

Jim


"MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
happened
> to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
number
> of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning
jig.
> Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
and
> been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person
gave
> me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and
not
> call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
(which
> is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
jigs -
> fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
>
> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> Michael

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:RnxDb.554967$HS4.4234882@attbi_s01...
> You're reaching. There seems to be a group of people that, for lack of a
> real life, sit around and try to find something to be offended by.
> You appear to be one of those. Bye. Plonk.
>


BWAHAHAHAHA I guess those "English as a second language" classes aren't
working out for you huh?.

Been making sawdust for 48 years and never heard of anything but jigs and I
didn't read a book to get this info.
Have never heard another woodworker call them anything else either
But when you really come down to it does it really matter what you call them
???
Doohickey sounds good, so does thingamafrig Geez I hope I haven't insulted
anyone here


"MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
happened
> to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
number
> of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning
jig.
> Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
and
> been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person
gave
> me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and
not
> call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
(which
> is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
jigs -
> fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
>
> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> Michael

That makes the figs then.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
: My bet is that in the machine shop, and in the machinist' world, the
: difference is probably more pronounced/important/politically correct than it
: is in woodworking.
:
: There is, at least semantically, a difference. To paraphrase, precisely, one
: of my old books: "A jig is a device used to maintain mechanically the
: correct positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or
: between parts of work during assembly, and a fixture is a device for
: supporting work during machining."
:
: Then again, I/it could be all wet.
:
: --
: www.e-woodshop.net
: Last update: 9/21/03
:
: "MHaseltine" wrote in message
: > Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
: happened
: > to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
: number
: > of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning
: jig.
: > Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
: and
: > been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person
: gave
: > me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and
: not
: > call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
: (which
: > is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
: jigs -
: > fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
: >
: > Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
: >
: > Michael
:
:

don't forget me: the supposed "village idiot".

dave

Larry Blanchard wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>> I don't use the phrase "Call a spade
>>a spade" nor would I ever use the word "niggardly" even though they
>>both have legitimate meanings.
>>
>
> I suppose Nigeria should change its name as well :-).
>
> C'mon. There's no relationship between "niggardly" and the dreaded "n"
> word, which is a corruption of "negro" which is derived from "negroid".
>
> And "negroid" has no more actual negative meaning than "caucasion"(sp?)
> or "oriental".
>
> Reminds me of the progression from "moron/idiot" to "feeble
> minded" to "retarded" to "mentally deficient" to "differently abled".
> They all develop negative connotations over time and are replaced with a
> new term - usually a longer one.
>
> Aren't we a strange species?
>

I haven't a clue what the hell you are talking about.
"Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> His "knowing look" probably had more to do with the racial connotation
that
> jig carries. Pretty silly to my way of thinking, in this day and time.
In
> my experience the "knowing look" is usually accompanied by a snicker or
SEG,
> and usually comes from a racist. Flames welcomed.
>
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
>
>
> "MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
> happened
> > to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
> number
> > of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a
tennoning
> jig.
> > Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
> and
> > been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The
person
> gave
> > me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful
and
> not
> > call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
> (which
> > is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
> jigs -
> > fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
> >
> > Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
> >
> > Michael
>
>

My book said basically the same thing, only a hell of a lot less windley.

<gd&r>

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Jay Windley" wrote in message
>

> A fixture is a device used to hold stock in place while you work on it. A
> vise, by this definition, is a sort of universal fixture. Assignment #1,
>
<snip>

"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <BtNCb.533006$HS4.4072535@attbi_s01>,
> [email protected] says...
> > I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never
heard
> > the term.
>
> I remember it being used racially when I was growing up in Kentucky. It
> had been some 50 years since I'd heard it used that way until last year
> when someone even older than I used it that way.
>
> I agree that most folks have never heard the racial slur, so it's an
> ovrreaction to object to "jig" used in either of it's normal definitions.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jigaboo

You're reaching. There seems to be a group of people that, for lack of a
real life, sit around and try to find something to be offended by.
You appear to be one of those. Bye. Plonk.


"PM6564" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53...
> >
> > "PM6564" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Well, I thought that people might want to know the definition for
> > reference.
> > > Didn't know you were gonna stick a 2x4 down your panties and turn it
30
> > > times.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You gave a definition of a another word than what was being discussed.
> > So by your reasoning, best and bestiality mean the same thing.
>
>
> What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig
> (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank
> and yankee.
>
>

So any word that can be rearranged to mean a racial term should not be used.
Who comes up with this idiocy?


"Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've lived mostly in NV, NC, and TN, and I've heard it a good deal, as
> a racist term mostly in its full form but sometimes the shortened
> form, in lots of discourse--guess I've been keepin' worse company....
>
> I don't see any harm in "jig" when the context is obviously
> mechanical, but then again I'm not black and I don't have to worry
> about being sensitive to those kinds of names. I won't presume to say
> what should or should not be a sensitive issue for someone else.
>
> If the context were in doubt I'd be happy to use the word fixture if
> that makes someone else less defensive. No skin off my back...
>
> Trying to keep my dogmas unfixed,
> H
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<BtNCb.533006$HS4.4072535@attbi_s01>...
> > I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never
heard
> > the term. As it is a long standing legitimate term with no racist
overtones,
> > I can only guess that it is one of those things that people think long
and
> > hard to find a way to be offended by it.
> >
> > "Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > CW,
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Jig has been a common term among rednecks for a long time. See a brief
> > > explanation of it, and other such, at:

"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "PM6564" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53...
> >>
> >
> >
> > What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was
> > jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of
> > like yank and yankee.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters'
> Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the
> word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding-
> dongs that hostess should rename their product.
>
> --
> Mule-Tracks
> Two for the board and one for the nail.

As noted previously:

From http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: (3)jig
Function: noun
Etymology: short for jigaboo black person
Date: 1927

Chris wrote:
> Maybe not. Just not a word I would feel comfortble using in
> conversation (for several reasons - one of which is the racial
> conotation). BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" :-)


I've heard this the last few years but I'll be damned if I can figure where it
came from. I was born in Japan almost 50 years ago and back then Japan was part
of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase
but merely an acknowledgement of origin.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

"PM6564" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53...
>>
>
>
> What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was
> jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of
> like yank and yankee.
>
>
>

I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters'
Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the
word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding-
dongs that hostess should rename their product.

--
Mule-Tracks
Two for the board and one for the nail.

On 13 Dec 2003, CW spake unto rec.woodworking:

> I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never
> heard the term. As it is a long standing legitimate term with no
> racist overtones, I can only guess that it is one of those things that
> people think long and hard to find a way to be offended by it.

I was at the local Agway last Sunday, and noticed that the birdseed
used in thistle feeders is now known as Nyjer seed. Used to be Niger seed.
I doubt that the complaints came from the chickadees.

The titmice have their own issues to deal with.

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53...
>
> "PM6564" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Well, I thought that people might want to know the definition for
> reference.
> > Didn't know you were gonna stick a 2x4 down your panties and turn it 30
> > times.
> >
> >
>
> You gave a definition of a another word than what was being discussed.
> So by your reasoning, best and bestiality mean the same thing.


What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig
(as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank
and yankee.

"Henry E Schaffer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> PM6564 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"Henry E Schaffer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> PM6564 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > ...
> >> >What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was
> >> >jig (as used as an ethnic slur)
> >>
> >> The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.)
> >Here's a newsflash - some words have more than one meaning.
>
> Right.
>
> >If you would bother to look at the entire thread before opening your
> >pie hole, you would see what we were talking about.
>
> We were talking about jigs vs. fixtures as used in shop (woodworking)
> work. (Go back and review the thread - it was about whether the
> woodworking use of the word should be avoided because of an alternate
> racist meaning.)

As I said before, If you would bother to read the entire thread before
opening your pie hole, you would see that the discussion was about the use
of jig as derived from jigaboo. To use my previous example: calling
someone a yank (american) . Yank is shortened from yankee. It has nothing
to do with the definition of yank used in pulling. The person in question
(CW) said that they had never heard of the word "jig" used as an ethnic
slur. That was when I posted the definition for "jigaboo" from which jig is
derived.

>
> Furthermore, if you would bother to read the post to which you were
> responding, you would see that I was responding to a particular sentence
> in a particular post (and even gave the origin.)
>
> >Try not to be a dip shit in the future.
>
> I'll try to avoid following your example.

BWAHAHAHA - I see what you did -- you turned that around! You are soooo
clever.

However, if you were to follow my example, you would only post about things
that you knew about and provide backup for that posting. You however, can't
seem to grasp that concept and use a faulty argument in your posting; i.e.
"I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors were
making ethnic slurs in their writing." You fail to understand that certain
words have multiple meanings. such as "nip" (Nip being derived from Nippon,
the americanization of the pronunciation of Japan) as a racial slur and as
"a small drink" or "a small cut" among others..

With your line of logic, I certainly hope that the .edu in your address owes
itself to you getting an email address becuase you sweep the floors or clean
toilets and not becuase you try and educate anybody.

Quite true and I would most appreciate it if you would clip to show who
actually wrote this.

"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "PM6564" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53...
> >>
> >
> >
> > What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was
> > jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of
> > like yank and yankee.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters'
> Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the
> word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding-
> dongs that hostess should rename their product.
>
> --
> Mule-Tracks
> Two for the board and one for the nail.

"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <QsZCb.551$B%[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > > I agree that most folks have never heard the racial slur, so it's an
> > > ovrreaction to object to "jig" used in either of it's normal
definitions.
> >
> >
> > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jigaboo
> >
> So it's in the dictionary. So is "buggywhip". And your point is?
>


Well, I thought that people might want to know the definition for reference.
Didn't know you were gonna stick a 2x4 down your panties and turn it 30
times.

netnews.comcast.net wrote:

> I believe SOME people have been
> reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature".


Who?



;)



--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

"MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"

Basic difference: a fixture holds/guides the stock; a jig holds/guides the
tool.

A fixture is a device used to hold stock in place while you work on it. A
vise, by this definition, is a sort of universal fixture. Assignment #1,
first week of class: design a fixture for a brake disc. Classical
solution: first square the stock, then use a generic square fixture to hold
the stock while you drill the radial hole pattern, then make a fixture with
the same hole pattern and bolt the stock to it while you machine the profile
(grooves/holes, circular outline, etc.). And yes, this is metalworking, not
woodworking, but the definition ought still to apply.

A jig may be a fixture in that to do its job it must also secure the
workpiece. But the primary role of the jig is to guide the tool, whether or
not it also secures the stock. In the modern manufacturing world where you
can have CNC machinery the notion of a jig is somewhat outdated. You just
tell the tool where to go, and how fast, and it happens. In our world,
where we have generalized hand-controlled tools, jigs take the form of
pocket-hole devices, router templates, guide rails, etc. that constrain the
motion of the tool to the path we wish it to follow.

A pocket-hole jig is an example of a jig that doesn't also need to be a
fixture. You fasten the jig to the workpiece and it guides the tool, but
the stock can be held any way necessary or comfortable. Some dovetail jigs
also function as fixtures because they hold the stock in place (since you'll
have both hands on the router) as well as guide the router through a
profile.

"Fixture" would be the proper term associated with holding stock for use in
a table saw. Many CNC systems also work by moving the stock, so "fixturing"
need not be interpreted as "holding the workpiece stationary" but rather by
holding the workpiece firm in a certain coordinate system of the tool. If a
tool works by moving a platform -- with workpiece attached -- along a path
relative to a stationary cutting bit, then a "fixture" would ensure that the
workpiece does not move relative to the platform.

--Jay

"James D Kountz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| Jig, fixture who cares?

I really don't, prior post nothwithstanding. None of my mechanical
engineering and machinist colleagues care. They all use "jig" and "fixture"
interchangeably ("jig" mostly).

I know the difference, but I don't often respect the difference. Especially
with the kind of tooling I deal with, the differences aren't usually
important. The original poster asked if he had been looking at "jigs" or
"fixtures". Well, if you *really* have to know the difference, there's a
way to tell, and I used to have to teach this so I know the difference.

But the guy who's saying, "You need to be careful and not call jigs
fixtures," is vastly overstating the issue. If you said something like that
around our manufacturers they'd laugh and accuse you of being some sort of
Tool Nazi.

If you want to call a jig a fixture, or a fixture a jig, or call it all
"tooling" (which I do a lot), or point to it and call it a "thinga-ma-bob",
you'll probably find me doing it right alongside you.

--Jay

In article <BtNCb.533006$HS4.4072535@attbi_s01>,
[email protected] says...
> I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never heard
> the term.

I remember it being used racially when I was growing up in Kentucky. It
had been some 50 years since I'd heard it used that way until last year
when someone even older than I used it that way.

I agree that most folks have never heard the racial slur, so it's an
ovrreaction to object to "jig" used in either of it's normal definitions.

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

In article <QsZCb.551$B%[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > I agree that most folks have never heard the racial slur, so it's an
> > ovrreaction to object to "jig" used in either of it's normal definitions.
>
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jigaboo
>
So it's in the dictionary. So is "buggywhip". And your point is?

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I don't use the phrase "Call a spade
> a spade" nor would I ever use the word "niggardly" even though they
> both have legitimate meanings.
>
I suppose Nigeria should change its name as well :-).

C'mon. There's no relationship between "niggardly" and the dreaded "n"
word, which is a corruption of "negro" which is derived from "negroid".

And "negroid" has no more actual negative meaning than "caucasion"(sp?)
or "oriental".

Reminds me of the progression from "moron/idiot" to "feeble
minded" to "retarded" to "mentally deficient" to "differently abled".
They all develop negative connotations over time and are replaced with a
new term - usually a longer one.

Aren't we a strange species?

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

In article <[email protected]>,
PM6564 <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig
>(as used as an ethnic slur)

The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.)

>It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank and yankee.

According to Unabridged Random House Dictionary it is a variation of
gauge. The OED gives a bunch of different meanings - and here is one of
the examples of the use in shop work:

"e. 1894 W. L. LINEHAM Text-bk. Mech. Engin. vi. 274 Jigs are an
extension of the template principle. Instead of thin plates, castings of
an inch or so in thickness are used, supplied with holes where needed,
the object being to guide the drill to its proper place on the work
without the necessity of lining-out. 1903 W. H. VAN DERVOORT Mod.
Machine Shop Tools xxvii. 410 Jigs are manufacturing tools of, as a
rule, high first cost and their economy depends very largely on the
number of pieces to be drilled. 1912 R. W. A. BREWER Motor Car
Construction ii. 13 Modern competition has made jig work absolutely
essential. 1942 B. A. SHIELDS Princ. Flight iii. 91 The airplane
fuselage is built in a jig. 1947 BRYANT & DICKINSON Jigs & Fixtures for
Mass Production i. 4 In the machine shop, a jig is usually an appliance
which guides a cutting tool... In the automotive industry, a jig is a
work-holding device wherein all positions for assembly or fabrication
operations are prelocated. 1967 M. CHANDLER Ceramics in Mod. World iv.
127 (caption) Assembling a large post insulator in a jig."

I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors
were making ethnic slurs in their writing.
--
--henry schaffer
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>,
PM6564 <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Henry E Schaffer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> PM6564 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > ...
>> >What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was
>> >jig (as used as an ethnic slur)
>>
>> The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.)
>Here's a newsflash - some words have more than one meaning.

Right.

>If you would bother to look at the entire thread before opening your
>pie hole, you would see what we were talking about.

We were talking about jigs vs. fixtures as used in shop (woodworking)
work. (Go back and review the thread - it was about whether the
woodworking use of the word should be avoided because of an alternate
racist meaning.)

Furthermore, if you would bother to read the post to which you were
responding, you would see that I was responding to a particular sentence
in a particular post (and even gave the origin.)

>Try not to be a dip shit in the future.

I'll try to avoid following your example.
--
--henry schaffer
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>,
PM6564 <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>However, if you were to follow my example, you would only post about things
>that you knew about and provide backup for that posting.

I did provide backup (or don't you know what the OED is?)

>You however, can't
>seem to grasp that concept and use a faulty argument in your posting; i.e.
>"I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors were
>making ethnic slurs in their writing." You fail to understand that certain
>words have multiple meanings. such as "nip" (Nip being derived from Nippon,
>the americanization of the pronunciation of Japan) as a racial slur and as
>"a small drink" or "a small cut" among others..

You are having trouble assimilating the entire post I made - and
focusing only on the last line and taking it quite out of context. The
entire point of my post was that there was a long-standing non-racist
meaning of "jig". That last line was a sarcastic way of pointing out
that all of those authors were *not* using an ethnic slur.

You then came in and informed us all that words can have multiple
meanings. Duh.

>With your line of logic, I certainly hope that the .edu in your address owes
>itself to you getting an email address becuase you sweep the floors or clean
>toilets and not becuase you try and educate anybody.

Wow - you just discovered that I post from an .edu address, and
thought up a way to be insulting. How impressive.
--
--henry schaffer
[email protected]

Honestly, your all wrong,

anyone who's anyone knows their
thingmummybobs

;-)

Signal

"netnews.comcast.net" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:mKuJb.38451$I07.128846@attbi_s53...
> I believe SOME people have been
> reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature".
>
>
>
> "MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
> happened
> > to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
> number
> > of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a
tennoning
> jig.
> > Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
> and
> > been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The
person
> gave
> > me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful
and
> not
> > call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
> (which
> > is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
> jigs -
> > fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
> >
> > Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
> >
> > Michael
>
>

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> PM6564 wrote:
> > What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question
> > was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind
> > of like yank and yankee.
>
> Main Entry: 1jig


<snip>


From http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: (3)jig
Function: noun
Etymology: short for jigaboo black person
Date: 1927

[email protected] (Henry E Schaffer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Duh.


The single most intelligent aspect of your post.

In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:20:07 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Henry E
>Schaffer) wrote:
>
>> I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors
>>were making ethnic slurs in their writing.
>
>Of course you realize that we are going to have to change the title
>and lyrics of "White Christmas".
>
FWIW, I used to work with a dark-skinned guy who sometimes sang "I'm dreaming
of an African-American Christmas...".

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

[email protected] (MHaseltine) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which happened
> to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a number
> of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning jig.
> Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner and
> been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person gave
> me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and not
> call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his (which
> is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as jigs -
> fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
>
> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> Michael


My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig
is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time,
hench a fixture in the shop.

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01>...
> The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it.
>
> "golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >>
> > My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig
> > is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time,
> > hench a fixture in the shop.

Oh ya? Why not?

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<uiHEb.402082$Dw6.1250007@attbi_s02>...
> Are you really that stupid? No need to reply, the answer is obvious.
>
> "golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01>...
> > > The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it.
> > >
> > > "golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >>
> > > > My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig
> > > > is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time,
> > > > hench a fixture in the shop.
> >
> > Oh ya? Why not?

Then why reply? The definition given in this thread is nebulous,
contradictory and uncertain at best, fuck head.

"Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> His "knowing look" probably had more to do with the racial connotation that
> jig carries. Pretty silly to my way of thinking, in this day and time. In
> my experience the "knowing look" is usually accompanied by a snicker or SEG,
> and usually comes from a racist. Flames welcomed.
>

FWIW I can second the racial connotation that jig (may) carry. While
I have never actually heard it used in that way, I remember some years
back (early 70s) when I would go ice fishing with my father.
"Jigging" was the act of fishing with a short pole and a small "jig"
with a "mousy" (a little grub). Periodically you quickly flick the
pole up and down to make the jig wiggle in the water. Anyway there
were a few fishermen who my father worked with (of the
African-American persuasion) that would only refer to it as "gigging"
(hard G). Dad had to explain to me that at some point in history the
word "jig" had a negative racial connotation. It was kind of obscure
then and that was 30 years ago.

There are many words that have or had negative connotations in the
past. I don't like the whole PC movement, but believe you should also
be sensitive to people's feelings and not just say "It's OK because
it's in the dictionary" cop out. I don't use the phrase "Call a spade
a spade" nor would I ever use the word "niggardly" even though they
both have legitimate meanings. I think most reasonable people can see
why. However unless I see wide spread use of the word "jig" in a
negative way, I will continue to use it to describe my fixtures (or
lack of - I have a large to-do list of jigs to make, but only a few
hanging around my shop).

-Chris

Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > I don't use the phrase "Call a spade
> > a spade" nor would I ever use the word "niggardly" even though they
> > both have legitimate meanings.
>
> C'mon. There's no relationship between "niggardly" and the dreaded "n"
> word, which is a corruption of "negro" which is derived from "negroid".
>
> And "negroid" has no more actual negative meaning than "caucasion"(sp?)
> or "oriental".

Maybe not. Just not a word I would feel comfortble using in
conversation (for several reasons - one of which is the racial
conotation). BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" :-)

>
> Reminds me of the progression from "moron/idiot" to "feeble
> minded" to "retarded" to "mentally deficient" to "differently abled".
> They all develop negative connotations over time and are replaced with a
> new term - usually a longer one.

And so it goes, as each new term is applied it developes some type of
negative connotation over time, and thus must be replaced with a new
term. Some may be offended by "handicapped" but personally I find
"handicapable" even worse because it is sooo condescending.

> Aren't we a strange species?

Yes. But we all knew that before this thread was started, right?

-Chris

Sounds like someone who is wrong a lot and gets tired of being reminded of
it.

"James D Kountz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This sounds to me like one of those freaking irritating know it all type
of
> people who feel they MUST correct everyone all the time so everyone else
> will talk like they do. Their way is correct, everyone else is wrong.
These
> idiots really gripe my ass ya know? Its not like the creep didn't know
what
> you were talking about, he just had to correct you anyway. Its some sort
of
> compulsive thing I guess. Jig, fixture who cares? I would have known fully
> well what you were speaking of if I had been the other guy, therefore no
> correction from me would have been necessary at all.
>

Jigs hold or guide a tool - ie: kreg pocket hole jig, router templates.
Fixtures hold or guide work, therefore, the miter sled and tennoning 'jig'
are fixtures.

Ian

"netnews.comcast.net" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:mKuJb.38451$I07.128846@attbi_s53...
> I believe SOME people have been
> reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature".
>
>
>
> "MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
> happened
> > to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
> number
> > of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a
tennoning
> jig.
> > Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
> and
> > been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The
person
> gave
> > me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful
and
> not
> > call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
> (which
> > is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
> jigs -
> > fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
> >
> > Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
> >
> > Michael
>
>

thing is, English is such a bastardised language.... made up of stray
words and bits and pieces of so many other languages..... so we have
20 unrelated definitions for the word jig. one of them is a racial
slur, the rest are more or less technical terms. anyone who uses the
word jig as a racial slur deserves to lose some teeth. anyone who
derides others for using the word jig in any other context because it
might be mistaken for a racial slur is making a fool of themselves.
Bridger












On 16 Dec 2003 07:19:45 -0800, [email protected] (Chris)
wrote:

>"Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> His "knowing look" probably had more to do with the racial connotation that
>> jig carries. Pretty silly to my way of thinking, in this day and time. In
>> my experience the "knowing look" is usually accompanied by a snicker or SEG,
>> and usually comes from a racist. Flames welcomed.
>>
>
>FWIW I can second the racial connotation that jig (may) carry. While
>I have never actually heard it used in that way, I remember some years
>back (early 70s) when I would go ice fishing with my father.
>"Jigging" was the act of fishing with a short pole and a small "jig"
>with a "mousy" (a little grub). Periodically you quickly flick the
>pole up and down to make the jig wiggle in the water. Anyway there
>were a few fishermen who my father worked with (of the
>African-American persuasion) that would only refer to it as "gigging"
>(hard G). Dad had to explain to me that at some point in history the
>word "jig" had a negative racial connotation. It was kind of obscure
>then and that was 30 years ago.
>
>There are many words that have or had negative connotations in the
>past. I don't like the whole PC movement, but believe you should also
>be sensitive to people's feelings and not just say "It's OK because
>it's in the dictionary" cop out. I don't use the phrase "Call a spade
>a spade" nor would I ever use the word "niggardly" even though they
>both have legitimate meanings. I think most reasonable people can see
>why. However unless I see wide spread use of the word "jig" in a
>negative way, I will continue to use it to describe my fixtures (or
>lack of - I have a large to-do list of jigs to make, but only a few
>hanging around my shop).
>
>-Chris

"Henry E Schaffer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> PM6564 <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
> >What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was
jig
> >(as used as an ethnic slur)
>
> The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.)

Here's a newsflash - some words have more than one meaning. If you would
bother to look at the entire thread before opening your pie hole, you would
see what we were talking about.

Try not to be a dip shit in the future.

Thanks,

The Management.

PM6564 wrote:

> What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig
> (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank
> and yankee.

Is it? Do you have any interesting sources to substantiate that, or is that
just folk etymology?

I have a dictionary with a pretty good amount of etymological information,
and it says nothing about the jig/jigaboo relationship in reference to any
of the definitions for "jig (1)" such as the dance (from /gigue/), a joke,
blah blah, "a device for guiding a tool or for holding machine work in
place." It has the jig/jigaboo thing for "jig (2)"

(American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th ed. BTW)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> PM6564 wrote:
>
> > What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was
jig
> > (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like
yank
> > and yankee.
>
> Is it? Do you have any interesting sources to substantiate that, or is
that
> just folk etymology?
>
> I have a dictionary with a pretty good amount of etymological information,
> and it says nothing about the jig/jigaboo relationship in reference to any
> of the definitions for "jig (1)" such as the dance (from /gigue/), a joke,
> blah blah, "a device for guiding a tool or for holding machine work in
> place." It has the jig/jigaboo thing for "jig (2)"
>
> (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th ed. BTW)
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>

Here's the first one I came across:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jig

I tried to copy and paste it but it grabs everything including the HTML.
Could you explain your second part?

"the jig/jigaboo relationship in reference to any
> of the definitions for "jig (1)" such as the dance (from /gigue/), a joke,
> blah blah, "a device for guiding a tool or for holding machine work in
> place." It has the jig/jigaboo thing for "jig (2)"

That confused the hell out of me.

I believe SOME people have been
reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature".



"MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
happened
> to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
number
> of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning
jig.
> Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
and
> been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person
gave
> me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and
not
> call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
(which
> is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
jigs -
> fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
>
> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> Michael

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (MHaseltine) wrote:

> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"

My wife works at the corporate HQ for a hi-tech computer company here in
Oregon. That thingie between the buildings with the ducks swimming in
and geese milling around it, with the trees overhanging, with the
cat-tails and lilypads, and croaking frogs is NOT a pond, but a...

"water feature ".

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:06:22 +0000, MHaseltine wrote:

> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"


What's in a name? Does it really matter? Whatever these devices are,
will it change their function or productivity?

"PM6564" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Well, I thought that people might want to know the definition for
reference.
> Didn't know you were gonna stick a 2x4 down your panties and turn it 30
> times.
>
>

You gave a definition of a another word than what was being discussed.
So by your reasoning, best and bestiality mean the same thing.

On 12 Dec 2003 19:06:22 GMT, [email protected] (MHaseltine) wrote:

>The person gave
>me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and not
>call fixtures jigs"

People like that are why auctioneers carry gavels.

Are you really that stupid? No need to reply, the answer is obvious.

"golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01>...
> > The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it.
> >
> > "golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >>
> > > My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig
> > > is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time,
> > > hench a fixture in the shop.
>
> Oh ya? Why not?

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:20:07 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Henry E
Schaffer) wrote:

> I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors
>were making ethnic slurs in their writing.

Of course you realize that we are going to have to change the title
and lyrics of "White Christmas".

Of course, when you remember that it was written by a guy named Irving
Berlin, you realize that there was already an inherent irony.


Regards,

Tom Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

> was part
> of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory
> phrase but merely an acknowledgement of origin.

It's one of the dumber ones IMHO. In all the languages I know anything
about, the word (identical, or very similiar) "oriental" just means
"eastern."

I forget the etymology here. I think it's from Latin. "From the direction
of the sunrise" or something like that.

I'll leave it for someone else to go look it up. I'm too lazy ATM.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

His "knowing look" probably had more to do with the racial connotation that
jig carries. Pretty silly to my way of thinking, in this day and time. In
my experience the "knowing look" is usually accompanied by a snicker or SEG,
and usually comes from a racist. Flames welcomed.

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop


"MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which
happened
> to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a
number
> of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning
jig.
> Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner
and
> been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person
gave
> me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and
not
> call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his
(which
> is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as
jigs -
> fixtures is a new way of naming these things"
>
> Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> Michael

Changint it from old "pond" to the new "water feature" lets the contractor
mark-up at least 40% right off the bat! <s>

--
SwampBug
---------------------
"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (MHaseltine) wrote:
>
> > Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> My wife works at the corporate HQ for a hi-tech computer company here in
> Oregon. That thingie between the buildings with the ducks swimming in
> and geese milling around it, with the trees overhanging, with the
> cat-tails and lilypads, and croaking frogs is NOT a pond, but a...
>
> "water feature ".
>
> --
> Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
> Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
> <http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
> <http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>

One of my closest friends is an older black man. It's been said that this
group is the most sensitive because they have lived through a very
deameaning time and were the primary targets.

Knowing I work with wood and have often used the term "jig" in his presence.
He sees the term for the context that it was delivered and takes no offense.
Of course, he can only speak for himself and I agree with the person that
said he could use the term "fixture" just as easy if it will spare feelings.
While I think that political correctness can go to far, we all have to
decide which side of the mountain to die on and this just isn't a show
stopper for me.

Don

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Rt7Db.542739$HS4.4130182@attbi_s01...
> So any word that can be rearranged to mean a racial term should not be
used.
> Who comes up with this idiocy?
>
>
> "Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I've lived mostly in NV, NC, and TN, and I've heard it a good deal, as
> > a racist term mostly in its full form but sometimes the shortened
> > form, in lots of discourse--guess I've been keepin' worse company....
> >
> > I don't see any harm in "jig" when the context is obviously
> > mechanical, but then again I'm not black and I don't have to worry
> > about being sensitive to those kinds of names. I won't presume to say
> > what should or should not be a sensitive issue for someone else.
> >
> > If the context were in doubt I'd be happy to use the word fixture if
> > that makes someone else less defensive. No skin off my back...
> >
> > Trying to keep my dogmas unfixed,
> > H
> >
> > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<BtNCb.533006$HS4.4072535@attbi_s01>...
> > > I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never
> heard
> > > the term. As it is a long standing legitimate term with no racist
> overtones,
> > > I can only guess that it is one of those things that people think long
> and
> > > hard to find a way to be offended by it.
> > >
> > > "Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > CW,
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Jig has been a common term among rednecks for a long time. See a
brief
> > > > explanation of it, and other such, at:
>
>

http://miva3.synergydns.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=102606&Category_Code=tools-term-multi


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
> So a "sharpening jig" would really be a "sharpening fixture", since it
> holds the stock (i.e. the blade to be sharpened) and not the tool (the
> sharpening stone)?

The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it.

"golfmyball" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig
> is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time,
> hench a fixture in the shop.

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> writes:

> Chris wrote:
>> Maybe not. Just not a word I would feel comfortble using in
>> conversation (for several reasons - one of which is the racial
>> conotation). BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" :-)
>
>
> I've heard this the last few years but I'll be damned if I can figure
> where it came from. I was born in Japan almost 50 years ago and back
> then Japan was part of the Orient. In any case, I never thought
> "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase but merely an acknowledgement of
> origin.

You must consider that given the original meaning of "Orient" as "here
the sun rises" in contrast to "Occident" (where it sets) from a
japanese point of view America would be "the Orient" while Asia would
be the Occident....

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

"Jay Windley" <[email protected]> writes:

> "MHaseltine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> |
> | Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
>
> Basic difference: a fixture holds/guides the stock; a jig holds/guides the
> tool.
>

So a "sharpening jig" would really be a "sharpening fixture", since it
holds the stock (i.e. the blade to be sharpened) and not the tool (the
sharpening stone)?

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

"Swingman" <[email protected]> writes:

> My bet is that in the machine shop, and in the machinist' world, the
> difference is probably more pronounced/important/politically correct than it
> is in woodworking.
>
> There is, at least semantically, a difference. To paraphrase, precisely, one
> of my old books: "A jig is a device used to maintain mechanically the
> correct positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or
> between parts of work during assembly, and a fixture is a device for
> supporting work during machining."
>
> Then again, I/it could be all wet.

Maybe the difference is more subtle: "A jig is a device for holding
the wood relative to the tool, and a fixture is a jig used by people
who think they know the difference."

IMHO, if it moves, it can't be a FIXture, because it's not fixed in
place.

OTOH, if it doesn't dance, can it be a jig?

Ok, I'll quit now. Here's my excuse for bad puns (warning - lots of
photos on this page): http://www.delorie.com/photos/shed/ (note the
snow in the last few pictures - sigh)

I used a lot of jigs building that. They danced out of my hands a few
times.