I have just moved into a new home with a 20 X 60 foot barn in which I
plan to build my dream workshop. During a recent visit to my local
Woodworkers Warehouse, I looked at all the new tools that I planned to
buy to outfit my new shop. One of those was the Bosch, 12", sliding
miter saw #4412. At $699 it was a lot of money, significantly more than
the DeWalt saw, but it sure was nice! Over the next few weeks I
returned to the store and had just about convinced myself to buy the saw
- after all, I had a lot of trim work to do in the house before I could
start on the barn. On my next visit to Woodworkers with credit card in
hand I found that the Bosch saw was now priced at $729. I know that $30
is not a huge difference but the "sticker shock" and the fact that other
tool stores in the area were selling the saw for $699 caused me to walk
out the door. I didn't buy the saw that day. A few days later I
received Woodworker's latest sale flyer in the mail and there was the
Bosch 4412 saw "on sale" for $699 - the original price and the same
price that other stores were charging. I complained to the sales people
at Woodworkers and they said that they had no control over the prices
and that the corporation set prices. My best guess is that the lead
time to produce and mail the "sale" flyer was well before the store
price was raised.
It seems to me that if the practice of raising prices just before a
"sale" is not illegal, then it is at least unethical. I could almost
understand it if all stores had to raise their prices due to a
manufactures increase but this is not true as even today the
Woodworker's web site lists the price at $699 with no mention of it
being a special sale. In fact, while shopping for this saw, I have
found prices as low as $640 and another that for $699, threw in a "free"
circular saw. Everyone is in business to make money and I'm sure none
of these stores are loosing money. The only thing that I can figure is
that Woodworker's Warehouse is intentionally trying to mislead
customers. In the past I have made many purchases at Woodworkers and I
planned to continue this while outfitting my new shop. I usually shop
around but often skip the low price guy in favor of the company that I
think is going to give me good customer service. Sadly, Woodworkers
Warehouse no longer fits into this category.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Tom
Ever really shop at Harbor Freight? I get their circular in the mail every
two weeks like clockwork. Each ad is good for four weeks, which means that
they always have two sale fliers that are good at any given time.
I have been shopping and lurking there about six months. Despite my qualms
about buying Chinese they do have good deals occasionally. I buy American
when I really can find a nice product that I would like to have, a
'heritage' tool that I can plan on passing down to my children. (And if I
can afford it.) Another thing is that the Sears stockholders must have
their ROI (return on investment). If you insist on giving the stockholders
15%-20% a year, your tool prices continue to rise faster than the rate of
inflation (and a darn site faster than the rate of my pay raises: 8%
increase in five years.) Anyhow I don't want to get into a flame war - back
to my original comment.
The HF store in my area is about the size of an old time hardware/tool store
sans lumberyard - meaning, with all the stuff they carry, it is jammed to
the rafters (and a disorganized jumble sometimes.) They have a certain
number of items that are on sale at any given time, and I would guess that
those items total almost 25% of the stock items in the store. So, by virtue
of the two advertisements mentioned above, 12.5% of the items go on sale
every two weeks, for four weeks. I would venture a guess that every stock
item goes on sale at least once every four months, going off-sale to the
regular stock price for the remainder of the time. Some items, like thier
$3.99 voltmeters, are almost constantly on sale - well over 50% of the
time. So is it fair to the chap who doesn't watch the ads and gets it at
regular price the day it goes off sale? Is the regular price the sale price
or the stock price if it is always on sale? It is a fact of life.
To me it's unethical and I wouldn't do it if it were my business, but it's
pretty simple, if what they do bothers you go somewhere else. That's
freedom. They have the freedom to tick customers off, you have the freedom
as a consumer to shop somewhere that doesn't. It works. It's when you try
to legislate ethical business practice because someone has their verson of
what is ethical, that it all gets screwed up because theirs and yours may be
different. Patronize those businesses that you want to patronize because
they have the product, price, support, customer service that fits you.
Somebody may pay more for better customer service, the next consumer may be
self sufficient and wants the best price.
Phil
George wrote:
> They used to send me their fliers every two weeks prior to the
> reorganization. Never saw the best price for anything I wanted in their
> catalog. They would, however, have "sales" which matched the price in
> others' catalogs on the same item.
>
> Guess they haven't changed.
>
> "Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > It seems to me that if the practice of raising prices just before a
> > "sale" is not illegal, then it is at least unethical.
> SNIP
> >
> > Has anyone else noticed this?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
Here's the reply I received from Bill Kearney, VP Store Operations of
Woodworkers Warehouse:
Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us regarding the BOSCH 4412 miter
saw. I assure you we are not intentionally trying
to take advantage of, or mislead any of our customers with our flyers. We
do make price adjustments through the course of
the year and it appears as though we increased the price without verifying
the market price. Then our advertising department
turned around and featured the saw as an off priced piece at the exact same
price as it was before the event ran. To make
matters even worse, the same offer is in the next flyer which is already
printed ready to mail on Nov 20th. With this particular
saw we did not do our homework, or properly present it as a true value to
our customers. I apologize for the way the saw is
portrayed. We are not in the habit of, and have no intentions of
increasing prices just to have the ability to be "on sale". I
have made the adjustment to the everyday market price on the saw at $699 and
we will make a genuine effort not to have this
kind of a thing happen again.
I value your business and appreciate your communication. Good luck with
your new house, I'm sure your 20' x 60' space will
make one great "dream workshop"!
Sincerely,
Bill Kearney, VP Store Operations
Tom Crist wrote:
>
> Here's the reply I received from Bill Kearney, VP Store Operations of
> Woodworkers Warehouse:
>
> Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us regarding the BOSCH 4412 miter
> saw. I assure you we are not intentionally trying
> to take advantage of, or mislead any of our customers with our flyers. We
> do make price adjustments through the course of
> the year and it appears as though we increased the price without verifying
> the market price. Then our advertising department
> turned around and featured the saw as an off priced piece at the exact same
> price as it was before the event ran. To make
> matters even worse, the same offer is in the next flyer which is already
> printed ready to mail on Nov 20th. With this particular
> saw we did not do our homework, or properly present it as a true value to
> our customers. I apologize for the way the saw is
> portrayed. We are not in the habit of, and have no intentions of
> increasing prices just to have the ability to be "on sale". I
> have made the adjustment to the everyday market price on the saw at $699 and
> we will make a genuine effort not to have this
> kind of a thing happen again.
>
> I value your business and appreciate your communication. Good luck with
> your new house, I'm sure your 20' x 60' space will
> make one great "dream workshop"!
>
> Sincerely,
> Bill Kearney, VP Store Operations
I think that was a great reply, he recognized what you stated and is
changing things in accordance with that. Kinda strikes me as another
Robin in that he's doing his best to provide both for us and his
company, I'd never ask for more than that. Looks like a good company to
purchase from to me. Thanks for posting this.
Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Here's the reply I received from Bill Kearney, VP Store Operations of
> > Woodworkers Warehouse:
>
> > I value your business and appreciate your communication. Good luck with
> > your new house, I'm sure your 20' x 60' space will
> > make one great "dream workshop"!
>
> If he really loved you he'd send you a discount coupon for another $50 off
> of it.
> Ed
Tool margins on something like this are often pretty small. I remember once,
maybe 10 years ago I worked in a medium sized hardware/lumberyard chain before
HD came in and took over. We mostly sold tools to home builders, at a pretty
low volume. The employees could buy anything in the store at cost+10%.
Typically, buying a nail gun or whatever, the discount would be just enough to
pay the tax... our markup on one item I remember in particular, a Skil 77 worm
drive saw, was $7. We had to get them by the pallet in order to get quantity
discount, and it took us all summer to move that pallet. The only way to beat
it would be to get more aggressive pricing, buying 100 train car loads instead
of one pallet, the way WalMart and HD do. (It also depends on how many middle
men are marking up the price... they typically deal directly with the factory
and are their own distributor of the product.)
They used to send me their fliers every two weeks prior to the
reorganization. Never saw the best price for anything I wanted in their
catalog. They would, however, have "sales" which matched the price in
others' catalogs on the same item.
Guess they haven't changed.
"Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> It seems to me that if the practice of raising prices just before a
> "sale" is not illegal, then it is at least unethical.
SNIP
>
> Has anyone else noticed this?
>
>
>
> Tom
>
"Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Here's the reply I received from Bill Kearney, VP Store Operations of
> Woodworkers Warehouse:
> I value your business and appreciate your communication. Good luck with
> your new house, I'm sure your 20' x 60' space will
> make one great "dream workshop"!
If he really loved you he'd send you a discount coupon for another $50 off
of it.
Ed
"Jon Endres, PE" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Hmmm... another NWA member?
> >
> > John
>
> Yes, I am. You?
>
>
Yes... Mid-Hudson Chapter.
"Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have just moved into a new home with a 20 X 60 foot barn in which I
> plan to build my dream workshop. During a recent visit to my local
> Woodworkers Warehouse, I looked at all the new tools that I planned to
> buy to outfit my new shop. One of those was the Bosch, 12", sliding
> miter saw #4412. At $699 it was a lot of money, significantly more than
> the DeWalt saw, but it sure was nice! Over the next few weeks I
> returned to the store and had just about convinced myself to buy the saw
> - after all, I had a lot of trim work to do in the house before I could
> start on the barn. On my next visit to Woodworkers with credit card in
> hand I found that the Bosch saw was now priced at $729. I know that $30
> is not a huge difference but the "sticker shock" and the fact that other
> tool stores in the area were selling the saw for $699 caused me to walk
> out the door. I didn't buy the saw that day. A few days later I
> received Woodworker's latest sale flyer in the mail and there was the
> Bosch 4412 saw "on sale" for $699 - the original price and the same
> price that other stores were charging.
If you watch pricing at those other stores closely over the year, you will see
them doing the same thing. People like to buy things "On Sale" and the
retailer has to price merchandize for the sale. Some states require sales to
be made at the higher price before starting sales at so many $$$ off, but most
don't. That's the reason I am saying that if one is doing it in your area,
they all are, including the grocery, discount department stores and Macy's &
Bloomingdale's.
Tom J
Other stores??? In the NE US I thought we are lucky to have WWW (Yorktown
NY), but after spending a lot of $$$ on rebuilding my workshop I quit going
there over a "floor model" issue on a Delta contractor saw (they stripped
some parts that only made the extension table work but they assured me that
they would get them for me). Two years and too many trips/phone calls/faxes
with schematics and parts lists later, I never did get resolution from the
Mutt and Jeff team that tore it apart to begin with.
In the meantime I found an alternate "local" (ToolNut), prices about the
same and I liked them. Guess what? Mutt and Jeff are now both working at
that place and after spending even more $$$ I have to give them up also.
The new Mutt (or maybe Jeff) at WWW disavows any knowledge of them ever
working there and I figured out a long time ago that I was the "screwee" on
that deal.
So now we get to the Borg. Hate that place. Local hardware store has
prices in dollars that I can only envision in Pesos. Have bought my share
of stuff on-line and find the prices are in-line but then UPS et al kills
you. Thinking maybe time to take up some other hobby.
"David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thats why there are other stores. Patronize them...
>
> --
> The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
> So I installed it on Linux...
> "Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > I have just moved into a new home with a 20 X 60 foot barn in which I
> > plan to build my dream workshop. During a recent visit to my local
> > Woodworkers Warehouse, I looked at all the new tools that I planned to
> > buy to outfit my new shop. One of those was the Bosch, 12", sliding
> > miter saw #4412. At $699 it was a lot of money, significantly more than
> > the DeWalt saw, but it sure was nice! Over the next few weeks I
> > returned to the store and had just about convinced myself to buy the saw
> > - after all, I had a lot of trim work to do in the house before I could
> > start on the barn. On my next visit to Woodworkers with credit card in
> > hand I found that the Bosch saw was now priced at $729. I know that $30
> > is not a huge difference but the "sticker shock" and the fact that other
> > tool stores in the area were selling the saw for $699 caused me to walk
> > out the door. I didn't buy the saw that day. A few days later I
> > received Woodworker's latest sale flyer in the mail and there was the
> > Bosch 4412 saw "on sale" for $699 - the original price and the same
> > price that other stores were charging. I complained to the sales people
> > at Woodworkers and they said that they had no control over the prices
> > and that the corporation set prices. My best guess is that the lead
> > time to produce and mail the "sale" flyer was well before the store
> > price was raised.
> >
> > It seems to me that if the practice of raising prices just before a
> > "sale" is not illegal, then it is at least unethical. I could almost
> > understand it if all stores had to raise their prices due to a
> > manufactures increase but this is not true as even today the
> > Woodworker's web site lists the price at $699 with no mention of it
> > being a special sale. In fact, while shopping for this saw, I have
> > found prices as low as $640 and another that for $699, threw in a "free"
> > circular saw. Everyone is in business to make money and I'm sure none
> > of these stores are loosing money. The only thing that I can figure is
> > that Woodworker's Warehouse is intentionally trying to mislead
> > customers. In the past I have made many purchases at Woodworkers and I
> > planned to continue this while outfitting my new shop. I usually shop
> > around but often skip the low price guy in favor of the company that I
> > think is going to give me good customer service. Sadly, Woodworkers
> > Warehouse no longer fits into this category.
> >
> > Has anyone else noticed this?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
>
Sounds almost the same (for example my place gets $20 for a 3/4 Pony pipe
clamp...beat that!!!)
I don't worry about a few bucks here or there considering the convenience,
but when the list gets too long I suck it up and head to the Borg.
"Sweet Sawdust" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Local hardware store has
> > prices in dollars that I can only envision in Pesos. >
>
> I think we must have the same local hardware store. Hinge I needed at
local
> hardware was $4, at Lowe's 20 miles one way away $1.40. Local's
explanation
> " if you go to the city to get it you will spend more in gas, get
something
> to eat and wind up spending more on it anyway in the long run". I needed
10
> of the things so even with gas and eats it would be cheaper to go to town.
> Local hardware has a mail flyer put out somewhere else and they never have
> the items in stock, but can get them in next Thursday if you pay shipping,
> only game within 20 miles so he stays open.
>
>
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:00:42 GMT, "Jon Endres, PE"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Beats driving three hours to Boston anyway.
> >
> >Jon E
>
>
> Wouldn't Hartford or Orange, CT be closer to you than Boston?
>
> Barry
Yes, barely, but Boston is somewhat of a second home to me and so there is
where I prefer to go.
Tom J. pretty well summed up a whole lot of words on the FTC site (unfair
practices, etc.) which I searched about 6 months ago. In short, if you
never advertised and sold a product at a higher price, then you cannot
advertise it at a sale price - legally.
I also shop at WW and have a friend that works there. Pricing is done by
corporate and to say they're a bit confused at times is being kind. In your
situation, just ask them to do a price match (they will) and the store will
call corporate who will confirm the price at the competitions store and if
it's a valid apples to apples deal (not a close-out, refurb's or other
discontinuing line type of sale price) they'll match it.
So don't blame the poor guy at the store...he has absolutely no control over
the pricing and suffers with every mistake made a whole lot more than you.
Doesn't make it right but hey, stuff happens.
Bob S.
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hmmm... another NWA member?
>
> John
Yes, I am. You?
"Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have just moved into a new home with a 20 X 60 foot barn in which I
> plan to build my dream workshop. During a recent visit to my local
> Woodworkers Warehouse, I looked at all the new tools that I planned to
> buy to outfit my new shop. One of those was the Bosch, 12", sliding
> miter saw #4412. At $699 it was a lot of money, significantly more than
> the DeWalt saw, but it sure was nice! Over the next few weeks I
> returned to the store and had just about convinced myself to buy the saw
> - after all, I had a lot of trim work to do in the house before I could
> start on the barn. On my next visit to Woodworkers with credit card in
> hand I found that the Bosch saw was now priced at $729. I know that $30
> is not a huge difference but the "sticker shock" and the fact that other
> tool stores in the area were selling the saw for $699 caused me to walk
> out the door. I didn't buy the saw that day. A few days later I
> received Woodworker's latest sale flyer in the mail and there was the
> Bosch 4412 saw "on sale" for $699 - the original price and the same
> price that other stores were charging. I complained to the sales people
> at Woodworkers and they said that they had no control over the prices
> and that the corporation set prices. My best guess is that the lead
> time to produce and mail the "sale" flyer was well before the store
> price was raised.
>
> It seems to me that if the practice of raising prices just before a
> "sale" is not illegal, then it is at least unethical. I could almost
> understand it if all stores had to raise their prices due to a
> manufactures increase but this is not true as even today the
> Woodworker's web site lists the price at $699 with no mention of it
> being a special sale. In fact, while shopping for this saw, I have
> found prices as low as $640 and another that for $699, threw in a "free"
> circular saw. Everyone is in business to make money and I'm sure none
> of these stores are loosing money. The only thing that I can figure is
> that Woodworker's Warehouse is intentionally trying to mislead
> customers. In the past I have made many purchases at Woodworkers and I
> planned to continue this while outfitting my new shop. I usually shop
> around but often skip the low price guy in favor of the company that I
> think is going to give me good customer service. Sadly, Woodworkers
> Warehouse no longer fits into this category.
>
> Has anyone else noticed this?
WW's prices change frequently... corporate sends out new price labels for
the store shelves and they changed the color of the labels sometime this
year. It didn't take long for almost every price label in the store to
change to the new color!
That said, the easiest way to deal with this situation is ask them to do a
price match. I've taken in local newspaper ads, flyers, catalogs, etc. and
they matched with no problem. They've even matched Tool Crib monthly catalog
sale prices without hesitation--I got $300 off on my jointer at the local WW
store as they matched Tool Crib's sale price.
John
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:21:07 GMT, "Tom
Kohlman"
> Here in CT.....
Here in South Jersey we have SFA. Even the 2 local WWW packed up and left.
--
Cheers,
Howard
----------------------------------------------------------
Working wood in New Jersey - [email protected]
Visit me in the woodshop - www.inthewoodshop.org
"Jon Endres, PE" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> "Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > <snip> Other stores??? In the NE US I thought we are lucky to have
> > WWW (Yorktown NY)<snip>
> >
> > Woodcraft - Rochester,NY - Boston, MA and on Dec 15th Latham, NY
> > (near Albany)
>
> I can't WAIT for the new Latham Woodcraft. My local WW club advertised
the
> opening in the latest newsletter, and I'll bet that the whole club will be
> there opening day. I'm looking forward to classes there.
Hmmm... another NWA member?
John
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:32:41 -0500, Scott Brownell's fingers viciously
stabbed at an innocent keyboard to form the now famous if slightly awkward
haiku:
>Tom Crist wrote:
>>
>> some good stuff
I read thru this whole thread and haven't seen anyone mention that
woodworkers whorehouse matches Amazon.com and I don't know who else.
Yes they do :))
I got the Bosch multi-base router set from them for too much money because I
asked the guy about price matching and he said "print the ad from amazon and
bring it in. We'll match their deal" COOL.
I went home and saw Azon had Bosch on sale + a $40 bonus jig included.
I originally paid WWW $260 for just the router set.
I walked out of there with a $50 refund and a free $40 jig.
Ain't life grand when you ask the right questions?!?!
just my 12cents (inflation)
Mowgli
Thats why there are other stores. Patronize them...
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Tom Crist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have just moved into a new home with a 20 X 60 foot barn in which I
> plan to build my dream workshop. During a recent visit to my local
> Woodworkers Warehouse, I looked at all the new tools that I planned to
> buy to outfit my new shop. One of those was the Bosch, 12", sliding
> miter saw #4412. At $699 it was a lot of money, significantly more than
> the DeWalt saw, but it sure was nice! Over the next few weeks I
> returned to the store and had just about convinced myself to buy the saw
> - after all, I had a lot of trim work to do in the house before I could
> start on the barn. On my next visit to Woodworkers with credit card in
> hand I found that the Bosch saw was now priced at $729. I know that $30
> is not a huge difference but the "sticker shock" and the fact that other
> tool stores in the area were selling the saw for $699 caused me to walk
> out the door. I didn't buy the saw that day. A few days later I
> received Woodworker's latest sale flyer in the mail and there was the
> Bosch 4412 saw "on sale" for $699 - the original price and the same
> price that other stores were charging. I complained to the sales people
> at Woodworkers and they said that they had no control over the prices
> and that the corporation set prices. My best guess is that the lead
> time to produce and mail the "sale" flyer was well before the store
> price was raised.
>
> It seems to me that if the practice of raising prices just before a
> "sale" is not illegal, then it is at least unethical. I could almost
> understand it if all stores had to raise their prices due to a
> manufactures increase but this is not true as even today the
> Woodworker's web site lists the price at $699 with no mention of it
> being a special sale. In fact, while shopping for this saw, I have
> found prices as low as $640 and another that for $699, threw in a "free"
> circular saw. Everyone is in business to make money and I'm sure none
> of these stores are loosing money. The only thing that I can figure is
> that Woodworker's Warehouse is intentionally trying to mislead
> customers. In the past I have made many purchases at Woodworkers and I
> planned to continue this while outfitting my new shop. I usually shop
> around but often skip the low price guy in favor of the company that I
> think is going to give me good customer service. Sadly, Woodworkers
> Warehouse no longer fits into this category.
>
> Has anyone else noticed this?
>
>
>
> Tom
>
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:00:42 GMT, "Jon Endres, PE"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Beats driving three hours to Boston anyway.
>
>Jon E
Wouldn't Hartford or Orange, CT be closer to you than Boston?
Barry
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:21:07 GMT, "Tom Kohlman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Other stores??? In the NE US I thought we are lucky to have WWW (Yorktown
>NY),
Here in CT, we've got Tools-Plus, (3) Woodworkers Warehouses and (2)
Woodcraft stores an hour's drive from each other. Then when you add
in the zero drive time Lee Valley, Rockler, Woodhaven, and Tool Crib
web sites, we've got some choices. <G>
Barry
"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <snip> Other stores??? In the NE US I thought we are lucky to have
> WWW (Yorktown NY)<snip>
>
> Woodcraft - Rochester,NY - Boston, MA and on Dec 15th Latham, NY
> (near Albany)
I can't WAIT for the new Latham Woodcraft. My local WW club advertised the
opening in the latest newsletter, and I'll bet that the whole club will be
there opening day. I'm looking forward to classes there.
Beats driving three hours to Boston anyway.
Jon E
Local hardware store has
> prices in dollars that I can only envision in Pesos. >
I think we must have the same local hardware store. Hinge I needed at local
hardware was $4, at Lowe's 20 miles one way away $1.40. Local's explanation
" if you go to the city to get it you will spend more in gas, get something
to eat and wind up spending more on it anyway in the long run". I needed 10
of the things so even with gas and eats it would be cheaper to go to town.
Local hardware has a mail flyer put out somewhere else and they never have
the items in stock, but can get them in next Thursday if you pay shipping,
only game within 20 miles so he stays open.