Woodsy wrote:
> Jay Pique wrote:
> > Anyone here build stairs for a living?
> >
> > JP
>
> I have and am trying to start up a new shop to do exactly that.
> Prebuilt box stairs as well as return style stairways.
Good luck! Are there any books that you recommend? I've been poking
around amazon, but the reviews are pretty limited. Right now I'm just
looking for a basic primer; something that will familiarize me with the
terminology and the process. (I'm not building any staircases any time
soon...that I know of.)
JP
Joe Bemier wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Anyone here build stairs for a living?
> >
> >JP
>
>
> I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
> well....for a living
The stair guy where I work just left, so I figured I'd read up on it a
bit. Any books you'd recommend? "A Place of My Own", maybe?
JP
Jay Pique wrote:
> Joe Bemier wrote:
> > On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Anyone here build stairs for a living?
> > >
> > >JP
> >
> >
> > I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
> > well....for a living
>
> The stair guy where I work just left, so I figured I'd read up on it a
> bit. Any books you'd recommend? "A Place of My Own", maybe?
Ignore the last question - I thought you were a different Joe.
Joe Bemier wrote:
> On 26 Jul 2006 18:13:08 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Joe Bemier wrote:
> >> On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Anyone here build stairs for a living?
> >> >
> >> >JP
> >>
> >>
> >> I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
> >> well....for a living
> >
> >The stair guy where I work just left, so I figured I'd read up on it a
> >bit. Any books you'd recommend? "A Place of My Own", maybe?
> >
> >JP
>
>
> Good idea. If you are a carpenter, you can trim stairs. The only
> difference between stairs and most other finish work is that they
> require a great deal of forethought and planning. There is nothing
> magical about a stair builders work except having patience.
>
> I will not trim stairs unless I have framed them or I know the framer
> and we work out details. The framing is so critical esp in complex
> jobs.
>
> If you don't mind - what do you do now? Are you a finish carpenter.
> What type of company do you work for? What kinds of stair work is
> typical?
Joe, check your email.
JP
Mike O. wrote:
> On 26 Jul 2006 05:35:35 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Are there any books that you recommend? I've been poking
> >around amazon, but the reviews are pretty limited. Right now I'm just
> >looking for a basic primer; something that will familiarize me with the
> >terminology and the process. (I'm not building any staircases any time
> >soon...that I know of.)
>
>
> Jay, you might have a look at some of the stair part manufacturer
> sites. www.coffmanstairs.com is one that will give you some general
> info about parts and some installation tips. They also have an
> installation book for about $13 but I can't vouch for it's usefulness.
>
> Fitts also has an online site www.fitts.com and you can download
> their installation manual if you register. It is free.
>
>
> Mike O.
Coffman's books are extremely useful so far a assembling the balustrade
system. Tips for cutting and fitting rail fittings, basic stuff
regarding pitch blocks and setting newel posts is excellent. I don't
entirely agree with the stair building section of their how to book,
but that's just a personal thing. Using framing material for sub
stringers is a sure ticket to a squeeky stairway.
OUCH!
Woodsy
Joe Bemier <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Anyone here build stairs for a living?
>>
>>JP
>
>
>I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
>well....for a living
Hi Joe,
A couple of weeks ago I asked for some advice on a stair railing (and
gave an unfortunately poor picture as a means of describing my
predicament). You replied that I had avoided the usual sequence with
this sort of work. That wasn't surprising because, a) I don't know the
usual sequence and, b) Just about everything in this house is done in
an odd sequence (my brother and I are building everything in our spare
time but we get a lot of pressure from family who want to use the
cabin for recreational purposes and so demand certain comforts). I
wonder if you could elaborate on the sequence that the pros use. Below
is a link to a better picture to hopefully refresh your memory.
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kmuldrew/woodworking/railing.jpg
Thanks,
Ken Muldrew
[email protected]
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
Joe Bemier <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hello Ken,
>
>Yes, I recall that staieway although I believe the shot was from a
>different perspective - facing the stairs IIRC.
>Anyway, all stairways are unique and there can never be any absolute
>right or wrong. However, having said that, there is a standard process
>that falls into play for many jobs. The sequence I will detail below
>is for stairs of your style and configuration - other types might
>vary.
>
>1) Set Newel Posts
>2) Lay on Stringers/Skirts (join these into the Newels) Your stairs
>have a first section of "Open Riser" on the right side and closed
>riser on the left side. Typically, the right side would use 45' angle
>cuts between riser and Skirt, while the left side would use a closed
>"Insert Riser/Skirt. The second section after the landing has a
>cantilevered wall on the right that would require some thinking I
>guess. If you take a pic I would be happy to help.
>3) Set the Risers
>4) Lay the Treads
>5) Add molding under Tread overhang
>6) Attach railings
>7) Add Balusters/Spindles.
>
>
>Each step above has many small rules and guidelines that are too
>lengthy and involved to detail here. As I recall, your stairs have the
>Framing Stringer laid in w/o cutouts and this will be a probelm to
>trim. However, not impossible. The fact that you have put up the
>railings before trimming some critical parts does not mean you cannot
>go forward it just means you will be handicapped in doing the work. As
>I mentioend earlier, if you want more advice, please post more pics -
>different angels.
Here are more pictures, although they don't show much detail of the
construction:
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kmuldrew/woodworking/railing.html
The stairs were factory made (that saved us a lot of time but denied
us the opportunity of building stairs). It would have been nice to put
down the maple on the treads and trim the risers and insides/caps of
the stringers before putting up the railing but with small children
about we decided that the extra difficulty of putting up the railing
first was the better tradeoff. A built-in bookshelf is going into the
recess on the wall behind the stairs (both below and above the joist
pocket that breaks up the wall, although above will be a stepped
bookshelf so that we don't need a ladder to use it). The front walls
will have drywall patches put in to the level of the stringers with a
maple cap put on top. The drywall will cover the open triangles where
the newel posts are attached.
The way I did the stair railing was the following. I first attached
and plumbed the newel posts at both top and bottom. Then I clamped the
three rails to the posts in the proper positions and marked out the
cuts. The rails were made of 5/4 maple and I left 1" long tenons that
were 3/4" x 3". The spindles (from 4/4" maple) were put in with 2
dowels per joint. Then the rail complex was clamped against the newel
posts and the mortices marked. I then took the posts down and chopped
out the mortices, glued the rails into the posts, and then bolted the
posts back in place with the rails intact.
This was the naive sequence of an amateur (and novice) furniture
maker. Using screws to attach both the spindles and the rails could
have made things go much easier, but that didn't really seem like a
good option at the time (but now looking at how close the bottom rail
is to the stringer I think some plugs would have been almost
unnoticeable down there).
Our current plan is to trim the risers and insides of the stringers
and put down wood on the stairs. Then we'll patch up the drywall on
the outer walls and then cap the stringers. Any advice will be greatly
appreciated.
Ken Muldrew
[email protected]
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
Joe Bemier <[email protected]> wrote:
>I would suggest however that you consider maple instead of drywall on
>the other side of the Stringers. Not only will this make the "cap
>wider and more substantial, it will also bring better balance to the
>profile of the stairway. I have doctored up one of your images to
>explain what I mean.. Of course this means more stock and expense but
>I think it would be worth it if you can swing it.
Thanks Joe, I like the idea of framing the stairway with maple. I'm
sure we can swing it and I don't think it will take much to convince
my brother to go for it (he wasn't too keen on doing any more
drywall). I really appreciate your advice.
Ken Muldrew
[email protected]
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
On 28 Jul 2006 09:12:04 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>Joe Bemier wrote:
>> Hi JP - No new mail....?
>
>I sent another, if still no love check your spam filters.
>
>JP
Hey, you were right....it was in the Junk Folder....all set now.
J
"Joe Bemier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Hey Joe - the binaries group (alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking) is the
place to post pics. Text only here.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 26 Jul 2006 05:35:35 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Are there any books that you recommend? I've been poking
>around amazon, but the reviews are pretty limited. Right now I'm just
>looking for a basic primer; something that will familiarize me with the
>terminology and the process. (I'm not building any staircases any time
>soon...that I know of.)
Jay, you might have a look at some of the stair part manufacturer
sites. www.coffmanstairs.com is one that will give you some general
info about parts and some installation tips. They also have an
installation book for about $13 but I can't vouch for it's usefulness.
Fitts also has an online site www.fitts.com and you can download
their installation manual if you register. It is free.
Mike O.
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:10:18 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Muldrew)
wrote:
>Joe Bemier <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone here build stairs for a living?
>>>
>>>JP
>>
>>
>>I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
>>well....for a living
>
>Hi Joe,
>A couple of weeks ago I asked for some advice on a stair railing (and
>gave an unfortunately poor picture as a means of describing my
>predicament). You replied that I had avoided the usual sequence with
>this sort of work. That wasn't surprising because, a) I don't know the
>usual sequence and, b) Just about everything in this house is done in
>an odd sequence (my brother and I are building everything in our spare
>time but we get a lot of pressure from family who want to use the
>cabin for recreational purposes and so demand certain comforts). I
>wonder if you could elaborate on the sequence that the pros use. Below
>is a link to a better picture to hopefully refresh your memory.
>
>http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kmuldrew/woodworking/railing.jpg
>
>Thanks,
>Ken Muldrew
>[email protected]
>(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
Hello Ken,
Yes, I recall that staieway although I believe the shot was from a
different perspective - facing the stairs IIRC.
Anyway, all stairways are unique and there can never be any absolute
right or wrong. However, having said that, there is a standard process
that falls into play for many jobs. The sequence I will detail below
is for stairs of your style and configuration - other types might
vary.
1) Set Newel Posts
2) Lay on Stringers/Skirts (join these into the Newels) Your stairs
have a first section of "Open Riser" on the right side and closed
riser on the left side. Typically, the right side would use 45' angle
cuts between riser and Skirt, while the left side would use a closed
"Insert Riser/Skirt. The second section after the landing has a
cantilevered wall on the right that would require some thinking I
guess. If you take a pic I would be happy to help.
3) Set the Risers
4) Lay the Treads
5) Add molding under Tread overhang
6) Attach railings
7) Add Balusters/Spindles.
Each step above has many small rules and guidelines that are too
lengthy and involved to detail here. As I recall, your stairs have the
Framing Stringer laid in w/o cutouts and this will be a probelm to
trim. However, not impossible. The fact that you have put up the
railings before trimming some critical parts does not mean you cannot
go forward it just means you will be handicapped in doing the work. As
I mentioend earlier, if you want more advice, please post more pics -
different angels.
In any event good luck!
J
On 26 Jul 2006 18:13:08 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>Joe Bemier wrote:
>> On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Anyone here build stairs for a living?
>> >
>> >JP
>>
>>
>> I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
>> well....for a living
>
>The stair guy where I work just left, so I figured I'd read up on it a
>bit. Any books you'd recommend? "A Place of My Own", maybe?
>
>JP
Good idea. If you are a carpenter, you can trim stairs. The only
difference between stairs and most other finish work is that they
require a great deal of forethought and planning. There is nothing
magical about a stair builders work except having patience.
I will not trim stairs unless I have framed them or I know the framer
and we work out details. The framing is so critical esp in complex
jobs.
If you don't mind - what do you do now? Are you a finish carpenter.
What type of company do you work for? What kinds of stair work is
typical?
J
On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 18:04:12 -0400, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Joe Bemier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>Hey Joe - the binaries group (alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking) is the
>place to post pics. Text only here.
Sorry Mike/All-
Won't happen again.
J
On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Anyone here build stairs for a living?
>
>JP
I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
well....for a living
On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:27:32 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Muldrew)
wrote:
>Joe Bemier <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Hello Ken,
>>
>>Yes, I recall that staieway although I believe the shot was from a
>>different perspective - facing the stairs IIRC.
>>Anyway, all stairways are unique and there can never be any absolute
>>right or wrong. However, having said that, there is a standard process
>>that falls into play for many jobs. The sequence I will detail below
>>is for stairs of your style and configuration - other types might
>>vary.
>>
>>1) Set Newel Posts
>>2) Lay on Stringers/Skirts (join these into the Newels) Your stairs
>>have a first section of "Open Riser" on the right side and closed
>>riser on the left side. Typically, the right side would use 45' angle
>>cuts between riser and Skirt, while the left side would use a closed
>>"Insert Riser/Skirt. The second section after the landing has a
>>cantilevered wall on the right that would require some thinking I
>>guess. If you take a pic I would be happy to help.
>>3) Set the Risers
>>4) Lay the Treads
>>5) Add molding under Tread overhang
>>6) Attach railings
>>7) Add Balusters/Spindles.
>>
>>
>>Each step above has many small rules and guidelines that are too
>>lengthy and involved to detail here. As I recall, your stairs have the
>>Framing Stringer laid in w/o cutouts and this will be a probelm to
>>trim. However, not impossible. The fact that you have put up the
>>railings before trimming some critical parts does not mean you cannot
>>go forward it just means you will be handicapped in doing the work. As
>>I mentioend earlier, if you want more advice, please post more pics -
>>different angels.
>
>Here are more pictures, although they don't show much detail of the
>construction:
>
>http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kmuldrew/woodworking/railing.html
>
>The stairs were factory made (that saved us a lot of time but denied
>us the opportunity of building stairs). It would have been nice to put
>down the maple on the treads and trim the risers and insides/caps of
>the stringers before putting up the railing but with small children
>about we decided that the extra difficulty of putting up the railing
>first was the better tradeoff. A built-in bookshelf is going into the
>recess on the wall behind the stairs (both below and above the joist
>pocket that breaks up the wall, although above will be a stepped
>bookshelf so that we don't need a ladder to use it). The front walls
>will have drywall patches put in to the level of the stringers with a
>maple cap put on top. The drywall will cover the open triangles where
>the newel posts are attached.
>
>The way I did the stair railing was the following. I first attached
>and plumbed the newel posts at both top and bottom. Then I clamped the
>three rails to the posts in the proper positions and marked out the
>cuts. The rails were made of 5/4 maple and I left 1" long tenons that
>were 3/4" x 3". The spindles (from 4/4" maple) were put in with 2
>dowels per joint. Then the rail complex was clamped against the newel
>posts and the mortices marked. I then took the posts down and chopped
>out the mortices, glued the rails into the posts, and then bolted the
>posts back in place with the rails intact.
>
>This was the naive sequence of an amateur (and novice) furniture
>maker. Using screws to attach both the spindles and the rails could
>have made things go much easier, but that didn't really seem like a
>good option at the time (but now looking at how close the bottom rail
>is to the stringer I think some plugs would have been almost
>unnoticeable down there).
>
>Our current plan is to trim the risers and insides of the stringers
>and put down wood on the stairs. Then we'll patch up the drywall on
>the outer walls and then cap the stringers. Any advice will be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>Ken Muldrew
>[email protected]
>(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
Ken - Sounds like you did a good job putting things together and like
I said before there really are not any absolutes in stair building -
except local codes, etc.
Anyway, it sounds like you have decent solutions for the go forward.
I would suggest however that you consider maple instead of drywall on
the other side of the Stringers. Not only will this make the "cap
wider and more substantial, it will also bring better balance to the
profile of the stairway. I have doctored up one of your images to
explain what I mean.. Of course this means more stock and expense but
I think it would be worth it if you can swing it.
J
On 27 Jul 2006 14:38:16 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>Joe Bemier wrote:
>> On 26 Jul 2006 18:13:08 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Joe Bemier wrote:
>> >> On 25 Jul 2006 06:02:27 -0700, "Jay Pique" <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Anyone here build stairs for a living?
>> >> >
>> >> >JP
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as
>> >> well....for a living
>> >
>> >The stair guy where I work just left, so I figured I'd read up on it a
>> >bit. Any books you'd recommend? "A Place of My Own", maybe?
>> >
>> >JP
>>
>>
>> Good idea. If you are a carpenter, you can trim stairs. The only
>> difference between stairs and most other finish work is that they
>> require a great deal of forethought and planning. There is nothing
>> magical about a stair builders work except having patience.
>>
>> I will not trim stairs unless I have framed them or I know the framer
>> and we work out details. The framing is so critical esp in complex
>> jobs.
>>
>> If you don't mind - what do you do now? Are you a finish carpenter.
>> What type of company do you work for? What kinds of stair work is
>> typical?
>
>Joe, check your email.
>JP
Hi JP - No new mail....?